00:00:03.280 - 00:00:16.770

So, thank you so much, Mr. Yao, for allowing me to recording—to interview you today. Tell us your full name and your occupation, please. Okay. My name is Adam Yao.

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My—I’m a senior business analyst and I work in the computer application area. I currently–I’m currently working for Thermo Fisher Scientific, yes.

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Okay. When—where were you born? I was born in December 2, 1960. I'm 62 years old. Yeah.

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Where? Oh, I was born in Beijing, China. Mainland [Uh huh.], yeah. Uh huh. And when did you move to Houston?

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Yeah, I came to Houston in 1992, toward the air—year-end. So, it's –it's a good 30 years. [laughs] [SC: 30 years.] Almost–almost there. So, it’s a long time.

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Did you–did you come here to study or did you come here to visit? I came here to actually join my wife, and she started work here in Houston, and I came here—actually, I was–I was running a

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business back in China at that time. So, I kind of took the business here and tried to carry it–carry it on. But later on, the course changed, and then I started to go to school to

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study. Right, do you mind telling us what business were you running in China and in the—beginning of the United States? Yeah, it was a trading business that actually imports

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US-made oil–oil and the gas equipments, in China. [SC: Oh.] Act–actually, I was a–I was one of the dealer of Halliburton, which is actually a Houston-based business.

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That's why when I came over, I still kind of continuing that kind—line of business for a couple of years. Uh huh. And when did you go back to school? That's two years later, like back in 1995, not—1994.

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So I joined the MB–MBA program, the University of Houston. B-school (?). So that's where I spend a little bit over two years and to get an MBA degree and started work

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[SC: Yeah.] here in the States. Why–why you making the change? Why did you decided to do that? Well, like back in the ‘80s and the ‘90s, that's kind of a

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very dramatic changing period or–or transition period of mainland China, right? So it started after quite several decades of a kind of close-the-door Communist control and

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then it start to open door in the in the early ‘80s, and so I was a—I graduated like back in ‘83 from college there, locally, so I started work and spent about 10 years, different

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jobs for government. And the private businesses sector started to open up, and so that's why I lately—in toward the end, I was always involved in the trading business and the kind of created my own little trading firm and with

00:04:06.070 - 00:04:25.860

five employees. And so, it's a pretty good endeavor there, but the overall—the society back then, it's still pretty enclosed and we don't know—well, through the trading business, it started see through what's the outside world is and–and particularly the

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United States and the Western world. It’s this kind of a—very interesting to my generation, right? So we've been grown up in a very enclosed environment and

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cultural background and–and a political oppression there. So it's–it's a pretty tough childhood for us, and then grow up into a brand new era that the doors start to open and you can peek outside.

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So coming out to see the world is kind of a–a internal desire there that we had, like my wife went to the States and to study and just to continue an education and find a job here. And so that's kind of a, just like, a gold rush.

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[laughs] That for young generation of Chinese at that time in the ‘80s and ‘90s and start to come out. And so that's kind of the driving force there. I see. So, could you talk about little bit—sorry.

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Can you talk a little bit about your childhood, because you said it was pretty [AY: Yeah.] tough childhood? Right. I think–I think I was born in ‘60s and grown up, like, a te–teen in ‘70s and ‘80s.

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And before the–the adulthood, and the China was—that’s–that's the period of Great Cultural Revolution, right? So [SC: Correct.] that the–the Communist Party has been ruled the country with a very iron fist and very high pressure

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on people—on society. And so freedom is–is really luxurious at that time. So the child–the childhood was–was pretty difficult, if you may, and we have food shortages,

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and our parents in particular—my–my parents are—they call it intellectuals. And that's pretty much the target of the Communist power to try to oppress and kind of stop the fleet thought of freedom—or freedom of thoughts kind of proliferate, and then that

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will threaten their control and their regime. So, the–the Great Cultural Revolution, that's pretty much targeting those—the—my parent generation as they were sent to the countryside, to the camps.

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[SC: Mhm.] And so, I grew up without my parents the—in particular, during my middle school age, that's when—actually earlier than that. 1968, I was eight year old, both my parents were sent out to the countryside,

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and they came back, it's already ’75—1975. So that kind of a period where we're kind of, we're all by ourselves, and— But you–you–you were—who take care of you?

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Who took care of you? [AY: My grandmother.] My grandmother. Your grandmother. In Beijing?

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In Beijing, yeah. So my parents made a decision not to take me and my sister with them to the countryside, and so—and my grandma still at, in Beijing, so we grew up without mom and dad directly taking care of us.

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But that's a greater period of time that we learn how to be independent much earlier. And, again, mature mentally, and try to solve problem in a harsh time by ourselves.

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And so, that prepares with a pretty strong mental strength there, and I think it–it benefits our endeavor later on when we–when we left the country and face the cultural challenges and all the learning everything from scratch and a totally different

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system and a totally different cultural background. I think that childhood was tough, but it doesn't—it–it–it–it did prepared us with a lot of mental strength. Mhm. Would you say your grandparents

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more influence on you than your parents during those formative years? Well, definitely my grand–my grandmother was, had a–had a great and tremendous influence on my mentality and my personality and my moral value.

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And she's a–she's a great lady. She's on my mother's side, and she's a widower and kind of raised me and sister and also my cousins on my mother's side, and this is a group of kids actually grow together.

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It's pretty tough. But she pat—she’s illiterate. She doesn't read, she doesn't—she grow up from a very old time, even before the national custom

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(?) or rights. She was born back in Qing Dynasty, so it’s-it’s pretty old school. [SC: Wow.] And actually, she had a wrapped foot. Oh, bound—foot bounding? [AY: Yes.] Oh my goodness.

00:10:02.320 - 00:10:18.780

Yes, so [laughs]. So, it's been about—a little lady like that had–showed us a very strong will to take on challenges and no matter how difficult it is, [SC: Wow.] and she–she taught us

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how to—well, a lot of the living basic skills like cooking, washing, and cleaning and try—with a limited material supply and how to make ourselves sufficient and surviving.

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So those are those surviving skills even those carried–carry us over to the to-to US. A lot of times, of course, be industrial, be strong-willed, and be frugal, too.

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Time. And learn how to budget life and all these things are passed along from grandmother [SC: Yeah.] that benefited me a lot, yeah. Yeah. Can you tell me an example of one incident that your–your grandmother [AY:

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Yeah.] educate you, or install the value in you? Just tell me one incident. Well, I've–I've multiple cousins from my mother's sisters, right?

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They all live in Beijing together. I mean, I'm the only boy among six girls, so [SC: [laughs] You’re the–you’re the prince.]. Well, my grandmother’s really focus on me a lot, but he also–he's

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also very strict on me and try to always—well, a lot—there’s a lot of incidences—actually, you know, eight year old or six or eight year old, young boy, and do a lot of crazy things and—amongst the girls, and—but one thing

00:12:05.950 - 00:12:26.780

she taught me is that when the younger cousins had a trouble, I need to stand up for them, and—as a man, and a lot of case, I remember one–one little cousin was–was injured at kindergarten.

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So, grandma just say, “Hey, rush over and take care of whatever you need to take care of. You're the only man at that point in time. It's–it's–it’s–it’s emergency and you gotta step up–step up.”

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You know, my older sister can do well that but–but grandma—and [SC: Wow.] so that kind of a–kind of very typical incident that [SC: Yeah.] she–she used to teach me as man of the household.

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And [SC: Yes] you knew the way you look. Right, right. Right. So, tell me another incident that’s the happy memories during childhood. Oh, the happy memories. My mom is a great cook.

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And the supply was pretty terrible at that time in northern part of China. It depends on years, that you may have bad years and no harvest, and you just see there obviously a shortage of the food but my grandma was very, very clever and a very good cook, and

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I remember—just the cooking the cabbage, and her cabbage just always tasted better than our neighbors’. [SC: [laughs]] And the kids kind of run over and say, “Hey, can you spare some of your grandmother's either cake or cabbages?” You

00:13:58.260 - 00:14:16.800

know, cabbages is-is-is very hard to cook and make it tasty but it was a tasty, and–and she knows—and also she knows how to budget it, with it limited. With a lot of food shortage and rationing, like 10 eggs for a whole family and how to use those 10 eggs.

00:14:17.400 - 00:14:37.940

That's the only protein that-that we had, just–just for whole month and for family, all the summer, eight people. They are so—and so she managed okay and make us nutrition. And I–I–I—actually, today, I cook for–for my house and a

00:14:38.350 - 00:14:52.410

lot of the basic skills are passed down by–by–by grandma. So. Yeah, so, despite the hardship and difficulties, your grandmother gives you so much care and warmth.

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All you can remember is her cooking and how she [AY: Yes.] helped you to have responsibility for the household and that's a really amazing childhood that you had. [AY: Yup.] It's—can you tell me one incident that was like really challenging and upsetting for you during those period of time before your parents came

00:15:14.810 - 00:15:34.560

back? That was—you have fought with the neighbors or something, I’m sure there’s a lot, just tell me one [laughs]. [laughs] Well, I think–I think leaving parents are very difficult [SC: Yeah.] for a young child.

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Eight years old, yeah. Those are the time you need parents. But, you know what, at–at train—at the train station, I see my mom off, alright?

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So—and it’s crowded and thousand–thousand people are sending—family are separated. You see people weeping and crying and very, very, very tough situation mentally right?

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But somehow, I don't remember what did–what did I do, but I came back home and grandma kind of say, “Hey, you're a little man already. You didn't cry in front of your mom.”

00:16:27.830 - 00:16:41.880

But when I got home, I started to cry. Then Grandma says, “Hey, you’re a little man, you show some strength there, and not cry in front of mom, seeing her off. Give her the confidence.” I think that's a pretty–pretty

00:16:46.200 - 00:16:56.640

significant moment. Yes, yes, yes. So your parents, even though they didn't influence directly, but their absence has a huge influence on your upbringing?

00:16:58.020 - 00:17:10.460

Yeah. Right. I thought—I think the train station I was–I was—I–I still clear, vividly recall that moment. That–my heart hurts. But I just–I just–I just

00:17:11.800 - 00:17:28.600

feel, letting tear down is not a men thing. I think you just—that’s a part of the culture too, right? Man. [SC: Right.] Or at least that men was given a lot of burden or–or–or charged that.

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You need to–you need to–need to be strong. You need to mentally be–be willing to–to–to–to influence whoever around you, right? So [SC: Yeah.], I think being an eight years old—and it's–it's a pretty–pretty

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profound, I mean— Yeah, you were only eight. You had to grow up really fast to be a “little big man” at eight years old. [AY: Yeah.] So, that is the–the experience of your parents absence was

00:18:01.270 - 00:18:16.050

really a strong–a strong–a strong influence on your life. [AY: Right.] So, how about your current family? I mean the—you–you have sons?

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Or, one wife and a son? [laughs] Right, we–we have a family of four. I have two sons, and one in—one is

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working and study—al-already graduate from college and continue pursuing medical education and meanwhile working. The younger son is going to college this fall.

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Major in what? Major in computer science. [SC: Oh great, yes. Like you [laughs].] [laughs] So actually, I start up—start off as

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a–as a–as a accountant. My MBA major is in the accounting line. My college back-major back in–in China was the economics. So–so, I've been in the financial world for quite a while, [SC: I see.] including running

00:19:16.860 - 00:19:30.930

the business and doing the marketings and key bookings is—I’m a one-people company, right? So, [SC: Right.] I do a lot of things to deal with a business. And so, my family came here,

00:19:34.680 - 00:19:52.030

and–and the both sons were born here in Houston, and it's–it–it start off a very struggling, right? Then I have to—I think I have a—I run into business—at the end of the business cannot continue because I was

00:19:53.780 - 00:20:07.160

a–I was a–I was on petition for–for green card. Actually, you probably heard of June 4th? The Tiananmen Square [SC: Yes, I do. I do.] incident. That's what Bush government granted Chinese young

00:20:08.790 - 00:20:22.600

students [SC: Oh, I see.] the–the–the permanent residency, right? [SC: I see.] So, that is why—my wife was already graduated and pretty determined to settle. We are facing this kind

00:20:24.340 - 00:20:42.920

of a—either I continue doing business or come here to join–to make a family. So I decided to come. And meanwhile, we have that kind of a special occasion to get the residency here in the States, through that special grant from Bush government.

00:20:43.590 - 00:20:52.790

I mean, [SC: Right.] the first Bush government, so. Right, [AY: So, it’s kind of—] so, did your wife come first? [AY: Yeah.] Your wife came here first? Yeah, she came here right—when?

00:20:55.430 - 00:21:09.300

Three months after Tiananmen Square incident. [SC: Uh huh. ’89.] Yeah, ’89, yes. And she–she went to University of Maryland. Mhm. What was her major?

00:21:10.890 - 00:21:25.860

Uh, she was a chemist. She was– [SC: I see.] she was in chemistry and–and also environmental protection. [SC: Wow.] The kind of environmental science field. [SC: Wow.] Yeah.

00:21:26.160 - 00:21:45.200

So that's–that's–that's how we got here, and there's a lot of diff–different pieces gathered by the we came in here. Even though I run a business line, but still in its infancy and without being able to leave the country at that time, and—because I was on a visa

00:21:47.020 - 00:22:03.140

petition, so I cannot leave, and the business started—yes, in two years time, it started—kind of go downwards. So, my wife started her first job. A very, very low paid job at that time.

00:22:03.140 - 00:22:21.520

So we're kind of a poor people here. So your wife still—what does she do right now? Oh, she later on turn to IT field, too, and the doing like—being a—being a programmer and–and [SC: I see.] computer analyst

00:22:21.890 - 00:22:39.710

and business analyst, and yeah, now she's retired. I think [SC: I see.] our–our life has started with a–with a–with a not a very–not very solid grounds, financially, right?

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So we have to find ourselves. We don't have no family here. No—not many friends and not–not a–not a community per se and the—to–to latch on, to search for help and for

00:22:56.100 - 00:23:12.680

guidance and lots of things. You just have to learn it yourself, I think back to my childhood growth, and that really laid some solid ground and skill set for us, my wife alike, and we–we grew up in a similar situation.

00:23:12.960 - 00:23:33.120

And so, challenge and financial burden and difficulties is not that difficult to–to face, to–to–to change. And that's actually the driving force for us to–to change

00:23:33.120 - 00:23:47.040

ourselves and quickly adapted to society. I think that, melt yourself into the society around you, it's–it's challenging, it's really tough and sometimes depressing.

00:23:47.040 - 00:24:01.230

Did you feel—still feel that way? Not anymore. I think— [SC: Not anymore.] No, I think professionally, we progressed pretty good. And overall, looking back, I have to say

00:24:02.890 - 00:24:21.350

our hearts are filled more with appreciation, rather than bad feeling, and so we do have bad moments, right? Don't know anybody and even go to school, started work and schooling at the same time, full-time work and

00:24:21.350 - 00:24:41.140

full-time study, I–I–I worked three jobs while I was in that—in MBA program, just to try to–try to–try to fold in (fill in?) the funds, and so I've been a Pizza Hut delivery boy and waiters and —do–do two restaurants

00:24:41.930 - 00:25:02.590

and also do court translator. So it's–it’s–it’s a just dramatic period of–and—like–like–like in the mid ‘90s until like, graduate and find the first professional job and then it is–it is great—it’s

00:25:03.420 - 00:25:23.110

a struggle and experience that's really tough on your spirit and make you feel that this–this–this world is different. As long as you work hard, and you get paid off, and we don't have time to complain, really.

00:25:23.570 - 00:25:41.190

[SC: [laughs.]] Just–just sprint ahead. And then I remember ‘90–‘90–’95? Uh, ’96 spring and that's where I graduated. Before I graduated I got a job offer, and to

00:25:41.190 - 00:26:01.260

me that's the campus recruit and I was–I was picked up by three oil companies—and the Shell, ExxonMobil, and–and the Phillips. So finally, I go with–with Shell Oil, and I was–I was extremely thrilled at that time

00:26:02.120 - 00:26:23.090

that I get a–the job offer, and the process is–is just so warming. I mean, that–that you–you've never experienced that kind of–that–the equality between the

00:26:23.090 - 00:26:43.390

employer and the employee that the—you’re on the same footing and pretty much your–your multi—your–your two-way choice here. So you mean this— [AY: Yeah.] You mean that's the United States’— [AY: Yeah.] That the way relationship between employee and employer,

00:26:43.390 - 00:26:56.760

it's much more imbalanced in China, where it's like top-downs. Right, it’s–it’s–it’s hierarchical. So [SC: Right.], here it's a–it’s a–it’s a free platform and you—well, you

00:26:56.760 - 00:27:15.640

got a three—I got a three job choice here just one time. That—maybe I'm the lucky one, but before that I do see it's hard to–to be a pizza delivery boy, and you're–you're–you’re trying to make ends meet, and that job doesn't really

00:27:17.200 - 00:27:37.680

give you a whole lot pride, or not financial sufficiency. But, the first—the job offer came and really give me such a–such a pleasure that you're—you’re like a farmer that

00:27:38.770 - 00:28:01.480

after a great period of winter and sowing and planting and fix the land, and [SC: Yeah.] whatever that was—the hard work and–and [SC: Pays off.] in the autumn that–you see the golden harvest and that's–that's something

00:28:02.990 - 00:28:22.190

really, really make–make–make—made me so appreciating what this piece of land and this community can offer me Yes. So yeah, you were saying you don't feel—you

00:28:24.160 - 00:28:37.420

feel—you said—earlier, you said mounting in society, it's–it’s hard, but you don't feel that way anymore. So, what make the change? Well, that–it still have a different level of a struggle, right?

00:28:37.460 - 00:28:56.340

So now, you're financially more sound, and you can pay much more attention to your surroundings and differences. And–and we—I think I'm–I'm pretty—I–I–I do like to observe and a curiosity has accompanied me

00:28:56.800 - 00:29:13.960

through childhood until being an adult, and–and be curious about what this society is about and travel around. When you have money, you can tour around this country, right? So you start to see the greatness of the nature and the greatness of the build of this

00:29:14.130 - 00:29:34.960

country, and ethnically, you're exposed to a lot of different people. I remember I went to one McDonald restaurant and–and stand in the line. There's a–there's a–there's a guy, just to kind of jam into–in

00:29:37.590 - 00:29:51.740

the line and place the order and–and in front of me, and so I was a pretty–I was a pretty angry and say, “Hey, that's not fair. You should–you should stand behind the line.”

00:29:53.040 - 00:30:08.540

So, but the guy said, “Hey, go back to where you come from,” and with the cursing words. And I was pretty shocked, and that was when I was still at school, right? So, it's a–it’s a mentally setback, right?

00:30:08.540 - 00:30:26.100

So I say okay (?), but I do have a lot of opportunities and happenings that happen the opposite. And while I would be a delivery boy, I knock the door, I see all kinds of customers, right?

00:30:26.220 - 00:30:46.150

So, black, white, yellow, you name it. And I see great mentality and the great hospitality and kindness and–and also

00:30:46.350 - 00:31:00.500

tolerance, I think. This is what I observed while do—like I said, yeah, I got my first professional job about [unintelligible]. I look at those low-level jobs I did, like waiters, pizza bo—pizza

00:31:00.500 - 00:31:14.810

delivery, and— Then–the—let me stop you for a second. So you say that when you deliver pizza, you encounter all kinds of people, all kinds of color, and you see the tolerance, and the gen—the

00:31:14.850 - 00:31:32.890

kindness of the other people. Can you give me just one incident that's most memorable? I think one incident is that during the pizza delivery, your busiest season is—or time of the day or month

00:31:33.630 - 00:31:52.040

or the year-round is around those ball games. Like–like–like–like, ’95, ‘90–’94. And those are two years of Houston Rockets being a–being a national champion in a row. So, you know, clutch city is—I don't have the

00:31:52.040 - 00:32:08.690

money and the time to sitting at home to watch games, but I can, through my–my pizza box, you know, when the game starts, and nobody cook, right? So [SC: Right.] I got a–I got a 30 box,

00:32:09.470 - 00:32:25.950

just one–one trip [SC: [laughs.]] I stop at 10 household, and you knock the door, you will hear the sound from the TV and all the–all the craziness and the screams and the peoples. The last box, the pizza’s already [SC: Cold.]

00:32:26.960 - 00:32:41.590

cold. [SC: Yes.] But guess what? I got the best tip. [SC: Oh.] So the guy came out of that—boy hiding there (?) too.

00:32:44.780 - 00:32:56.990

That is touching, yeah. That's—that made me cry. Even now, I still cry just thinking about…it's a touch.

00:32:57.900 - 00:33:13.120

Yes. The generosity of strangers. Right, exactly. So, it's very, very, very good experiences. Even though I—later on I got professional job, I look at those

00:33:13.280 - 00:33:25.730

low-level stuff I did at the bottom of the society. You just feel that—the–the channel is open. [SC: Right.] The free world, right? What free world would offer you.

00:33:26.160 - 00:33:40.870

So [SC: Yes. Yes], I do cherish that, yeah. Can you tell me one incident of this kind of same feeling after you become professional? Now, you no longer have this low-paying job.

00:33:41.140 - 00:33:59.380

You're like—your current job. An incident that makes you feel heartwarming–warming feeling? Well, then—it’s–it's very—I would say it's a–it's an upward hill to climb

00:34:00.440 - 00:34:19.690

since then. And you have a different level of responsibilities, and you have a different chances to show your capability and use your skill and use your knowledge and use your cap—use—particularly, use your skillset

00:34:19.750 - 00:34:37.580

to–to maneuver within different communities and work is a community and living around and–is a community. So how—I started kind of pre–appreciate a more American value, American treatment.

00:34:37.580 - 00:34:53.890

I still recall the first job with the Shell Oil. The employee orientation. Actually it’s–it’s the [inaudible]. Every half year, all the new hires from global will fly to Houston

00:34:55.150 - 00:35:11.640

and gather at the Shell Oil Golf Resort. And you can bring your wife. You can bring your family in there—and even their resort and the CEOs, and will give you open speech and tell you what Shell Oil is, or what's

00:35:12.390 - 00:35:30.320

the–what's the–what's the ethics of–what's the value of this–this enterprise. That is–that is something totally new. But it's really opened up a new understanding of what's the corporate culture here, or what's the–the entrepreneurship or individualism

00:35:31.460 - 00:35:47.170

that–of this–this society. And particular, in the business world. And back—to my business practice in–in China, that was totally different at that time.

00:35:47.510 - 00:36:08.090

And still, from traditional Chinese culture, the business practice is always—is often looked at a [unintelligible] because Chinese always say, [speaks Mandarin], means the business practices are not ethical

00:36:08.660 - 00:36:23.620

[SC: Yes. Yes.] at all the time. So, but here, to the States, I'm not trying to beautify it, but it's different philosophy here and different ethical value. So, from the very get-go, that first employee orientation,

00:36:23.910 - 00:36:43.670

there's this department refinery foreman, in his–in his late 50s, probably early 60s. And kind of give us their—his own experience as a–as a–as—at the beginning. Immediately after

00:36:45.270 - 00:37:05.930

CEO’s open speech, there's a foreman, there's the old worker, come in and talk to all the new employees, including all—a lot of PhDs and masters and scientists and then–then all–all different levels. But that's–that kinda contrasted to the one CEO at the

00:37:06.060 - 00:37:22.400

top of the pyramid and one worker at the bottom. [SC: Right.] They—see, that's a lot of culture shock here. I say, “What a contrast.” And then after that old guy says that, “Hey, boys and girls, and I'm your example

00:37:22.620 - 00:37:38.820

and your example of American dream. I started with Shell at 17 years old. After barely just graduated from high school and started work here. And through this past 40 years with Shell Oil, and now I have a home, I

00:37:39.230 - 00:37:55.190

have a wife, five kids, and I have a vacation home at Galveston port. And I have a boat, I have about $2 million in my cash account. And I have a pension. And this is the way to go. Boys and girls, follow me, and the Shell Oil will treat you

00:37:55.190 - 00:38:09.270

alright, as long as you work hard.” So that's kind of a witness man. At that moment, I thought “Wow, American dream come true to me as long as I stay with this.” And–and you believe that—you still feel the same way?

00:38:09.840 - 00:38:26.570

Well, my journey was–was a–was a sweet for–for only—less than five years [SC:[laughs]] [laughs]. What happened? [laughs] What happened? Well, you know, five years is–is where I can enter pension program.

00:38:26.930 - 00:38:44.510

That's the Shell Oil rule at that time, and back in 19—yeah, I joined in ’96. And 2000, the pension—Shell club pension program terminated.

00:38:45.550 - 00:39:02.780

[SC: Oh.] Right before I can–I can start–start enter that tenure. Then it's replaced with this thing called a 401k [laughs]. [SC: Right, right, right, right, right, right.] For–for those years, I don't need to

00:39:02.780 - 00:39:17.310

pay anything for insurance, but since 2000, I started paying for premium, and to–to buy and [unintelligible] PPO or H–or HPO, something like that. [SC: Right, right, yes.] I said, “Wait a minute.

00:39:17.920 - 00:39:30.730

Something doesn’t sound right. [SC: [laughs]] A little different from what I–[laughs] what I heard.” But— [laughs] Yeah, but in general–in general, you still feel [Yeah] this American Dream is

00:39:30.760 - 00:39:40.650

true? [AY: It’s true.] Now if you work hard–if you work hard and you–you put your time— [AY: You get rewarded.] You get rewarded. You get rewarded. You still feel it's true.

00:39:40.960 - 00:39:52.540

Yeah. Yeah, I still feel true. [SC: Yeah.] And even after I–after I was–I was kind of a little disappointed with the Shell, and then another opportunity come out and it’s called Y2K.

00:39:53.050 - 00:40:08.670

And every company, every individual have–had to update their computer system, right? Because the 2000 years’ turn that—there’s a bug (?). So, that drives a whole—and also not far behind is

00:40:08.760 - 00:40:28.120

the Internet boom. And so, whole information system industry evolves and–and explode, actually. So that kind of create a tidal wave, drive a lot of people like me and my wife, and switch from business field or whatever scientific field.

00:40:29.330 - 00:40:39.880

We–we involved—or engineering field—we involved. And go into the IT— So–so you changed–you changed one more time after that [AY: Yeah, yeah.]. What year was it? [AY: Yeah.

00:40:40.390 - 00:40:52.300

That’s right.] Well, what year–what year was it? Oh, it’s 2000 [laughs]. 2000. Okay, right around then, you—then you changed one more time. That also–that also reveals a fact, that the society

00:40:53.050 - 00:41:14.380

is–is totally open, I mean, in the business world is that—it–it–it provides opportunities to–to workers, as long as you work. And well, talking in the back about

00:41:15.910 - 00:41:35.350

the feeling of being minority and, ethnically, you’re a minority, for a fact. And in a workplace, you do see networks, or nepotism—which is–which is–is totally understandable, because

00:41:35.480 - 00:41:49.870

we're from—we Chinese are from a–a–a–a most typical society of nepotism [laughs]. So– So–so, that kind of situation is okay for you because that's also happening in China?

00:41:50.720 - 00:42:03.570

[AY: Yes.] Do you—do not feel—you do not feel it's unfair because it should not be [AY: I do.] It should not happen—you do feel unfair? Tell me– I do feel unfair, or like, well—even now, I–I've

00:42:04.360 - 00:42:22.710

progressed on my career to a very senior level, but I see a lot of my colleagues, or same Chinese countrymen and work together and same company, different companies, and we have our communities and see them struggling.

00:42:25.640 - 00:42:43.310

Not progress as—well, their progression doesn't necessarily match their level of effort. So that is–that is a pity, and you have opposite example

00:42:47.210 - 00:43:03.920

like–like, say, power of alumni. And to say, which school you're from, and who–who is it–who's it—who is the powerful guy, and where he graduated from, that matters.

00:43:03.940 - 00:43:23.120

So like, to say is—in all these big companies in Texas, you have U-UT column, you have A&M column, you have the UH column, blah, blah, blah, blah. You just—it’s just thing about that. For those things are–are necessary,

00:43:23.810 - 00:43:40.940

but it is not a bias-free, right? So, just put it short, and then look at it nowadays, the IT field and you will see a very, very ethnic, distinctive, [laughs] if you may, so—

00:43:43.640 - 00:43:55.620

Can you explain that a more? What does that mean? There's probably one group of—ethnic groups that dominate that field. [SC: Which is?] Which is like, either computer

00:43:56.220 - 00:44:16.210

engineering and information systems and [unintelligible], because this is a lot of go with the globalization and offshoring, right? So, you know, going offshore means your—lot of your–your information system,

00:44:18.680 - 00:44:35.560

hardware, software, and the support and human resources are sourced from–from Asia. For example, either from China or India, and you see a lot of those things, and now, not even that, and so I see now, business management

00:44:36.130 - 00:44:54.710

and all kinds of industry or fields or business fields are particularly at manager level you see outsourcing is–is–is so frequent and so popular, if you may.

00:44:54.930 - 00:45:11.610

And that make certain group or certain people from certain area more benefited, which is hard to say it's fair or not. A lot of capitalism is–is–is benefit-driven, and

00:45:12.880 - 00:45:27.800

it’s [SC: Right.] profit-driven [laughs]. Cost matters, so— [SC: Yeah.] But that does create a lot of problem and they look at today's American society, you look at the–the–the division at–at

00:45:29.600 - 00:45:49.990

ethnic lines is–is pretty darn obvious [laughs]. If you made that kind of conflict or that kind of bad feeling of unfairness is—it’s true—is-is existing [laughs], at least, how biased it is–is—is another matter, but it does

00:45:50.160 - 00:46:07.400

draw those vibes. But, my hunch is this society is most—still, most tolerating society in the whole globe. At least all the countries I went through.

00:46:08.160 - 00:46:28.620

I experienced and either traveled or worked. There's no single place or country that's even comparable to–as for tolerance, fairness, and mutual care and

00:46:28.720 - 00:46:46.940

mutual appreciation. Just like what I talked about, my pizza boy—pizza delivery experience with a cold pizza get most tips. That's–that's something I don't see at least anywhere else.

00:46:47.860 - 00:47:08.510

Nothing can happen, or—actually, in my life here, that's not the only incident or occurrence. There's a lot of many other things that–this shows that people’s decency is not from class,

00:47:09.550 - 00:47:24.500

is not from how much you make or how higher-class in the social hierarchy you are. But I see that's–that's–that's the comparison. Is it—is there a problem?

00:47:24.810 - 00:47:34.840

Obvious. There are still problems. There are—are there conflict? Yes, there are conflict. But that's—how I see, this–this is still a–a–a

00:47:38.270 - 00:48:02.340

dreamland for me, from being a minority and can yet still enjoy fair treatment, and relatively fair legal system, and fair cultural system, too. And we're here talking about culture and as a–as a–as

00:48:02.340 - 00:48:19.980

a–as a hobbyist (?) of Beijing Opera. And I just see a lot of tolerance from my–my friends and I have in my company, there's a lot of colleagues and—of other ethnic groups, and they’re musicians too.

00:48:20.830 - 00:48:38.250

And we can talk. I mean, this thing, you go back to China, I doubt it [laughs]. I just want to—I want to make a tiny bit of–of observation here, ‘cause you've been away from China for a long time [AY: Right.], and Chinese

00:48:38.250 - 00:48:53.780

society has changed quite a bit too. [AY: Sure.] And–and–and I think that when–you grew up during the time that is really difficult, really poor, so people can not even handle themselves, economically, how could they be helpful to other?

00:48:54.070 - 00:49:05.380

And politically was so bad—Cultural Revolution was really killed a lot of people's conscience(?) and a lot of you know. And so, I mean, right now, I think China might be different. I'm just pointing that out.

00:49:05.380 - 00:49:20.260

It might be different that–that's a little bit better society, maybe? But that's just my observation [laughs]. Yes, you're right. And that–that–that's totally two different era

00:49:20.870 - 00:49:35.180

we're talking about. Historical [SC: Exactly.] era in the–in the past 40 years, and it's–it's–it's totally contrasting. And that society changed a lot, and I would–I would

00:49:35.310 - 00:49:55.140

say a great productivity has been inspired. And with great help of America—you cannot–never downplay it, even now. The Sino-American relationship has went pretty sour recently, but you still put politics

00:49:56.450 - 00:50:17.940

aside and the influence of American culture. That is the–that is the ground of that—that is the–the key driving force that opened up the China society and let China's culture start to transform too.

00:50:18.630 - 00:50:29.840

You are so right. You're so right. Yeah. That's–that's–I think that's an old—well, we're saying, the Americans and China–China–Chinese are two great people.

00:50:31.650 - 00:50:48.410

Before you jumped to that, you'll have to—there are–there are difference there, and–and the Chinese are great people, no doubt about it, like any other mankind, they're all great. But great people live at a different footing.

00:50:49.200 - 00:51:03.220

That's the unfairness, and—but that's the reality—this world has never been even. It’s–it's always different. But what can make the different stay together

00:51:05.670 - 00:51:24.160

is the humanity, is the culture that—just like the pizza delivery case. It's that kind of culture was—will–will be the positive driving force. [SC: Yeah, you are so right.] Yeah.

00:51:24.970 - 00:51:42.470

So–and I'm not saying—there’s a great Chinese really realize this and the great politicians and 40 years ago and being drawn, rather than to Soviet culture, but being drawn to the western side, particular symbolized by Americans, and so—we

00:51:46.430 - 00:52:01.890

came out of there and here, get educated, but we have all kinds of contact and trace back and send back all our philosophies we learn here, our life experiences. And you're not the first one to listen to me talk to this and

00:52:03.030 - 00:52:20.070

many other experiences, American experiences are brought back in the past 40 years to China. That shift and transformed the next generation, certainly extend, of course [SC: Right, yes.]. There's other inputs and there's the influences and the mutually too

00:52:20.770 - 00:52:39.920

and the culture came out, really enriched this society, too. You look at the Chinese history in America in probably past two–two centuries, and with the growth of America. And it–it–it–it transformed lot, right?

00:52:40.750 - 00:52:58.240

So now it is—[unintelligible]—first I came here, look at the Houston Chinatown, just by the–by the George Convention Center. Now it's nonexisting. A brand new Chinatown already birthed—in birth, right?

00:52:58.390 - 00:53:13.800

So and still standing, and you have your own landmark building and here and Bellaire Street. And so, that's unthinkable by the time I came here. And that also brought a lot of China value here.

00:53:14.180 - 00:53:32.530

I think–I think the good—both side of the good part meet together, that's–that's what we want. But I don't think a culture we can measure culture as a good or bad is that they are different.

00:53:32.530 - 00:53:47.480

[SC: That’s right.] Different values, and the difference often may cause conflict, too. Right. But–but like you said, the—what’s the—what bring this together is the humanity. right? [AY: Exactly.] We are–we are all human being and we can—our

00:53:47.480 - 00:54:03.070

differences actually not as great—as less than our similarities. You know, our similarities are greater than our differences. [AY: Right.] So, if we can acknowledging that and we can–we can move together. Definitely, definitely.

00:54:03.070 - 00:54:13.880

[SC: Yeah.] Yeah. It's a–it's a—yeah, you're exactly right. I think difference is not necessarily bad, and it’s– [SC: It’s good.] it's often proved to be good. [SC: It's actually good.] [laughs].

00:54:13.940 - 00:54:25.810

Yeah, yeah. When I was so sad that the McDonald open up at the first stop—first shop in Taiwan, I was terrible. [laughs] Nobody wants to eat traditional Chinese

00:54:26.590 - 00:54:36.960

street food anymore. They want to go to McDonald’s, and it's terrible. Well, more terrible thing is–more terrible thing’s now you have a Panda Express [laughs].

00:54:37.630 - 00:54:50.550

Right, the other side. The other side, right? [AY: Yeah [laughs].] Well, Adam, I know you're still a Chinese Opera Club (?). So, I like to ask you a few questions on Chinese Opera Club (?).

00:54:50.950 - 00:55:05.420

So when did you start your Chinese opera training? I think when I was five or six years old? And my wife—my–my father was a–was a–was a fan

00:55:06.320 - 00:55:21.340

of Beijing opera, including my grandpa. And they all—when I was very little, my grandpa would say, “Hey, I'm so proud of that. I watched the Doctor Mei Lanfang’s performance in real

00:55:22.990 - 00:55:38.240

(?). [SC: Wow.] Yeah, so and he would say—he spent a lot of money, catch a train to Shanghai. From Nanjing to Shanghai. To go to see Mei Lanfang perform.

00:55:38.270 - 00:55:55.050

[ Right.] Yeah, so that kind of thing is–is from when I was very little. And of course, we have—what is that? Gramophone? Is that a—is the turntable thing?

00:55:55.500 - 00:56:07.100

[SC: Record. Record] Yeah. The record. The–the–the turntable. And when I [SC: Yeah.] was little, I learned how to–how to put the needle on the–on the–on the black thing, and the thing turned, and you will hear

00:56:08.130 - 00:56:24.650

all these Beijing opera playing. All the famous, like Mei Langfang, Ma Lianliang. All these–all these–all these famous characters and artists. And so, that's–that's my exposure.

00:56:25.370 - 00:56:44.600

Musical exposure, if you may, when I was little. And, you know, back in the ‘40s and the ‘50s and right by the time—I think Chinese opera entered its prime and golden age right at the time before

00:56:45.830 - 00:57:05.360

the Communism, nationalists changed hands of main-mainland China, right? So, that's where they–the most proper—prosperous is—so born in the ‘60s and ‘70s, even though they already started to–the communists already start to—try to get rid of

00:57:05.440 - 00:57:22.050

the–these—this traditional culture aspect of— Well, Cultural Revolution is not until ’66, right? Right, so I kind of—I think in my blood, those early childhood exposure to the Beijing opera plays

00:57:22.850 - 00:57:37.330

and through passion of my father and my grandfather, that–that lays down the ground. And so I had (?) the six. I think that's—I remember—my father is a–is a–is–is violin, Chinese violin player.

00:57:38.140 - 00:57:51.060

Oh, really? He plays Western—the violin? No. No, he plays a jinghu, the–the [SC: Ah, jinghu.] Yeah. [SC: Erhu. Erhu . Yeah] Yeah. So, he plays that and he started teaching me, and

00:57:52.020 - 00:58:10.530

then he find a very famous jinghu player. He's a–he's a professional. He's very famous, and he plays for the most renowned

00:58:12.170 - 00:58:28.810

hualian character, the face painting character, called Qiu Shengrong, the Qiu [unintelligible]. That's–that's–that's the—probably the top–top gun of the professionals. So, Mr. Wang [speaks Mandarin].

00:58:29.600 - 00:58:39.460

So, he taught me—he kind of opened me up and then–to give me the very basic training. When you were what age? When I was six years old. When you were six years old, you start playing?

00:58:40.420 - 00:58:52.810

Yeah, okay. Yeah, I started playing and start to get training on those and until I was 12 years old. [SC: Wow.] It was early into Cultural Revolution, and then

00:58:54.800 - 00:59:14.360

my master, my teacher, died in ‘75. And—but before that, he's started be sick, and–and also he was persecuted [SC: Sure.] by the–by the–by the Cultural Revolution movement, and all these traditional Beijing opera

00:59:14.680 - 00:59:33.860

artists been either sent to prison, or they are not allowed to perform no more [SC: Right.] on a stage, so. So, you were practicing—you were—you started your training in erhu, jinghu. [AY: Yeah.] And do you—were you able to see the real show on stage?

00:59:33.860 - 00:59:46.240

[AY: Yeah. Yes. Yes I still remember] Was it common then? Yes, it was very common. [SC: Was it common?] It was common. It's mainstream. You would do—call it. Yeah, even though movies–theater—movie–movie theater

00:59:47.640 - 01:00:04.500

and TV was–was not there yet [SC: Sure.], in the ’60. But radio broadcasting is–is–is getting much, much more popular. The regular families in the cities can afford to buy a radio set

01:00:05.370 - 01:00:23.760

and the record player, like the–like the–the gramophone. So, those are the main, but the Western art are still not that popular. It’s–it’s–it’s the traditional Chinese stage performance

01:00:24.560 - 01:00:42.360

art and local–local operas, including Beijing Opera, right? And many different kinds: Bangzi, Kunqu, and all these different operas [unintelligible] location—

01:00:42.360 - 01:00:56.240

So did–did you do every day? You can see it every day [AY: I can—yeah.] or once a week? No, every day. Well, plus my–my–my–my father plays every day, and he's a doctor, but afterw—

01:00:56.240 - 01:01:06.190

No, but I’m thinking about–I'm thinking about the show [AY: Oh, show—]. Can you go see the theater? Yes, theater is open every day. [SC: Every day? You can go to—] Every night.

01:01:06.440 - 01:01:19.200

You can go— Where do they–where do they–do they perform in the theater? Or do they perform in [AY: Theater.] local— Mm, local— [SC: Outdoor?] Outdoor is the–is mostly

01:01:20.760 - 01:01:35.400

the–the fan club. They play at—in those public parks. Or the s–the street circles, and so more like for self entertaining or practice [SC: Sure.], or

01:01:37.260 - 01:01:50.920

just—yeah, it's more like a voluntarily public entertaining, okay? [SC: Right.] I'll put it that way. And it’s more fan-based, and fan play–fans play, and fans enjoy and watch.

01:01:51.310 - 01:02:09.000

The audience are—I think Beijing opera is a–is a–is a kind of unique to China society. And it's a story, it's a stage settings. It's–it's been embedded or–or

01:02:09.210 - 01:02:26.410

planted to–to the–to the–to the general public—the population. Because you don't have nothing else. And then the movie theater is still pretty expensive to go. [SC: Right, right] And it's–it’s not that popular.

01:02:27.110 - 01:02:40.980

You still have more Beijing opera theaters than the movie theaters [SC: Right.] at that time. I remember even–even still prior Cultural Revolution, and I can easily find it. So how many theaters are there?

01:02:42.020 - 01:03:00.610

Oh, in Beijing? Is— [SC: [unintelligible]] that’s the capital there, so there are many, many of those [SC: So—] and there–there–there are many professional, more than anywhere. More professional troops that compete, actually, [SC: Right.] you know?

01:03:01.000 - 01:03:17.710

They stage differently; they stage at the same time. Sometimes it's hard to choose: okay, this guy, say it's a son of Mei Lanfang. And the–the other side is probably son of Ma Lianliang. There's all these famous character and schools of performance that they

01:03:17.770 - 01:03:30.080

have a–the vast—they themselves has a school and they pass it on to their—through their own student. It's most like private school, right? [SC: Right, right, right.] So, you—shi

01:03:34.710 - 01:03:51.050

fu, Master versus student. [SC: Disciple.] Disciple, yeah. So, the–the–the those things and—are clearly followed by a vast mass of

01:03:52.050 - 01:04:07.740

audiences, who really knows just guys like my–my father, my grandfather, they grow up with this things so they— And so do you–do you—are you able to see that? Were you able to see that a lot when you were little?

01:04:07.740 - 01:04:26.130

I vaguely remember those times when my dad took me to the theater, and I don't have to pay for the tickets. [SC: Right [laughs].] Tickets are free, so—and my father—I remember my father bought the ticket and not front

01:04:26.130 - 01:04:44.350

row, but the pretty back of the theater. But I can run all the way just to the stage and I can— [unintelligible] [SC: You can—] I can stand there and just watch the characters and play and fight and sing and all these things.

01:04:44.440 - 01:04:58.950

That's kind of like, you go to circus [laughs], right? [SC: Right, right, right. I mean, it’s pretty cool.] That's my—yeah, that's my early recollection of exposure to the stage performance, and it's very noisy, and the

01:04:59.390 - 01:05:14.160

music's loud, and the audience are loud, too. So that's–that's–that’s contrasting to the Western opera layout and audience. And the interaction between the performer and–and—Beijing

01:05:17.740 - 01:05:27.550

opera has a typical system, called the jiàohǎo (Cheering/standing ovulation), meaning— Yeah, yeah, yeah. If you– [AY: [unintelligible][laughs]] if you don't–if you don’t do it, that means he's not good enough, right?

01:05:27.680 - 01:05:42.590

[AY: Exactly, exactly. The noiser–] So the noisier you are—the noisier you are, that–that means that the actors get the encouragement from you. Yeah, so–so like,--like–like, it's similar likem a–like a rock music, right?

01:05:42.650 - 01:06:01.440

So that–the concert [SC: Right, right.] folks are standing up there, chant—screaming and chanting and-and doing that. So, it's very interesting and it's a great experience. So when you—you started training when

01:06:01.440 - 01:06:15.700

you were six years old, until about [AY: 12.] you were 10, 12? What happened after that? After that, that's–that's a Cultural Revolution. There's only—the Beijing opera has been used by most of

01:06:15.700 - 01:06:31.220

them as a political prop-propaganda tool, right? [SC: Propaganda, yeah.] So, there's only eight, called yanban xi (yangbanxi) or supposedly (?) political plays that you can only play those. All the traditional stuff been banned.

01:06:32.270 - 01:06:52.370

So basically, what my—what I learned from the childhood, and the—get restricted that you can only start to learn those political plays, political musics, and settings. Not necessary—those are–those are–those are creations as—is a bad from–from

01:06:53.110 - 01:07:11.890

art perspective, but because its nature is to serve Maoism and to support the communism and political agenda. So, lot of twisted characters in the play and [SC: Right.] it’s–it’s totally political.

01:07:12.450 - 01:07:30.110

It's getting very nasty, and basically, it's destroying humanity. I would say it's a very special historical phase of Chinese cultural history that—or opera history

01:07:31.150 - 01:07:47.010

paid(?)--Beijing opera or any opera history. It’s–it's been twisted in those 10, 15 years until in the early ‘80s, and it started being when Mao’s wife

01:07:49.380 - 01:08:07.720

was–was–was–was got rid off. Then [SC: Very sad.] they—they started–they start to reopen up the–the traditional culture venue, so then the Beijing opera get revised and–and revived, if you may.

01:08:07.720 - 01:08:21.880

So that's truly—in the ‘80s is truly where I start deeply involved in the study, the traditional opera plays and— ‘80s. [AY: Yeah.

01:08:22.120 - 01:08:40.470

In the—in the late ‘70s—] What—you were in—student (?). In the late ‘70s, when I was in—well, that's the—‘76 is when the Cultural Revolution movement ended. And until ‘79, when I go to college, and that's the period you

01:08:41.600 - 01:08:58.430

are allowed to play traditions, but not quite yet. You can only play this template. You know, Beijing opera is–is story based, there is–there are–there are thousands, of hundreds and thousands different plays, famous plays, we're talking about, passing

01:08:58.490 - 01:09:14.830

down through the history. So—but only certain are allowed in the ‘70s to play, and then in the ‘80s, it starts to fully open it up. And so, [SC: Right.] all these historical plays and all these famous

01:09:15.050 - 01:09:34.600

players been persecuted during the Cultural Revolution brought back and to start a training, resume training, schooling and theaters start to open up and to stage regular performances. But it never reached back to the climax before

01:09:37.270 - 01:09:47.390

that political movement. Right, right. So–so what did you do to this—during this period? You say that's where you–you trained again? Did you join a club?

01:09:47.390 - 01:10:00.280

[AY: We had a club. Yes] You have a club. In the college? Or other— In the college, I'm–I'm club president, too. So I play—so, normally you need to have a–you need to have a band

01:10:00.280 - 01:10:16.680

first, right? Before— [SC: Right, the instrumental ensemble.] in the stage. Yeah, yeah. You–you first get a band put together, and then all the–all the fans or players will–will start to join, and so that's my college plays.

01:10:17.070 - 01:10:34.150

And the—meanwhile, at the same time, I belong to my dad's club. He has two clubs in–in Beijing. So he's a–he's a—the—what they call it? First chair. [laughs] There are multiple players, but

01:10:35.890 - 01:10:53.500

he was one of the best fan (?) there. And–and in Beijing and Shanghai, those major metros, the club are actually mixed with a lot of professionals, as well as amateurs, right.

01:10:56.580 - 01:11:17.760

So–so, the–the level of—there’s–there's one club in central Beijing with a very high level with a lot of–with–with a lot of professionals, or retired professionals, famous artists, and also very good fans or–or–or

01:11:17.990 - 01:11:37.130

practitioners. So, like my dad. And it's kind of a two-culture saloon, if you may, or opera saloon—we routinely, not just sing and play. We–we forum a lot, seminar a lot, and

01:11:38.130 - 01:11:55.150

kind of exchange ideas. And–and there's some people even from–from colleges or universities and those artistic institutions and research institution join and kind of put up

01:11:55.230 - 01:12:12.370

say, like a very famous play, and tear it into pieces and do analysis and history, politics and humanity, and artistic and all these components put together. And try to figure out well, it's good.

01:12:12.630 - 01:12:29.740

It's great. What makes it great? So, there's some kind of more formalized research going on there and accumulation of theoretical studies. So that's–that's the—probably prime of time I feel very interested into that.

01:12:29.980 - 01:12:46.610

Even I studied economics at college, but it just–it just feel very involved and very enriched by listen to those guys talking, seeing as real artists and the playing and learn those tricks.

01:12:48.020 - 01:13:08.050

And the in-depth (?) skillset that's required. And so, it's– [SC: Yeah.] it's a very, very enriching culture life for myself, so I spend a lot of time—while other—well, my generation is actually, well, the

01:13:10.360 - 01:13:27.640

draw–majority of them are draw to a different direction. Like Deng Lijun (?), the pop star. [SC: [laughs] Yes.] I'm–I’m–I’m kind of old school in my friends’ eyes. Yeah, well–well, I–I like the–I like the pop song, too.

01:13:27.770 - 01:13:43.730

I sing those, too. I mean, they're great. And I don't—I cannot re–resist that, but— But you have the tradition they do not have, right? [AY: Yeah.] You–you have this background that's–that’s [AY: Right.] in use since you

01:13:43.730 - 01:13:59.430

were five years old they did not have, so that's the difference. [AY: Right. Right.] Yeah. So, then you came to United States. You went to business—doing the business, and then you went to school. And then you had to make ends meet, deliver pizza.

01:14:00.600 - 01:14:14.550

And so when this Chinese opera club began? In Houston, I mean. This–this club was–was created back—it was established back in 1983, so—

01:14:14.550 - 01:14:24.330

No, I'm talking ‘bout when did you–when did you begin to the Chinese Opera. When did you— Oh, when did I join this? [SC: Join, yeah.] Yes, the almost

01:14:26.770 - 01:14:37.030

the–the second month I landed in Houston. Really, even when you were still doing business? [AY: Yeah.] You just need to find that. No, it's not I need to find it.

01:14:37.240 - 01:14:53.770

I came out—I don't know what's the United States of life, regarding Beijing opera. I heard of Dr. Mei Lanfang visited New York and toured US back in 1930s, and made–made Beijing opera a

01:14:53.960 - 01:15:09.580

great artistic event in US, but since then, I don't know. Nothing about how this–this piece of art and then landed in US. I—no—no clue. And also with the lot of unknowns, right?

01:15:09.580 - 01:15:26.670

So, running from a closed door China and then to–to the free world. So, I think this probably is—this thing I'm not going to touch for quite a while. So I didn't even bring the instrument with me when–when I

01:15:26.780 - 01:15:42.920

landed in Houston. Yes. But two months later, my wife took me to say, “Wow, for a whole month you don't have Chinese food,” right? So, I–you have fried chicken and burgers and all this crap.

01:15:43.440 - 01:16:04.240

[laughs] And my wife said, “Oh, let's go to Chinatown and to–to have something called Chinese.” [laughs] So at a restaurant, there's those Yellow Pages. Yellow Page. And this is on my desk, and at that time, you don't have no mobile phone,

01:16:04.330 - 01:16:19.830

right? [SC: Right, right.] The counter [unintelligible] has a–has a wired phone there, and— [SC: Yeah.] that's one of the benefits at a restaurant, right? Is you can pick up the phone and say “Hey, I want to borrow this phone and make a phone call.” [SC: Yes. Right.] So [laughs]—and by the phone is a Yellow Page.

01:16:20.800 - 01:16:40.210

And I was making a phone call to a friend, and say, “Hey, I’m in Houston, and–and–andwe should get together.” And while talking, I was flipping this Yellow Page at the end of this section called “Community Groups.” And I see okay, there's a–there's a bunch

01:16:40.760 - 01:16:58.530

of associations, or tong chuang hui (同窗会), or okay, so alumni, all these things. At the very end, it's called guójù shè (国剧社, Chinese Opera Club), and in English it’s–it’s China Opera Club. I said, what–what the–what the hell is [laughs] “Chinese Opera Club”?

01:16:59.480 - 01:17:13.800

So, there's a phone number. There's a name. There's a gentleman's name as well, so I read it out, and okay, so it's actually a bank phone number, via— [SC: A what? A what? A bank?] A bank.

01:17:14.290 - 01:17:27.240

Yeah, it’s a China Bank. It’s called First Texas Bank. First Texas National Bank, at that time. Dézhōu dì yī yínháng (德州第一银行). Okay, [laughs], and the VP pick the phone.

01:17:27.350 - 01:17:42.800

It’s happened to be the president of China Opera Club of Houston. And say—I said, “Sir, what is–what is–what is this–this club is about? And what is ‘China opera?’” “Ah, [京剧 Jingju，speaks Mandarin].

01:17:43.500 - 01:17:59.840

It’s Beijing opera.” [laughs]. I said, “Really?” And he said, “Yes.” [SC: Wow. By accident?] And he said, “Okay. Listen to you. You’re–you’re–you’re–you’re from–from–from Beijing, aren’t you?” So,

01:17:59.840 - 01:18:14.330

because he kind of pick up the dialect accent. [SC: Yeah, accent. Yeah.] And then the accent and [unintelligible]. I say, “Yeah, I actually very into Beijing opera.” [laughs] “Okay, this weekend, we're going to

01:18:15.260 - 01:18:32.330

have a–have a rehearsal. And can you come to—and we need some help. We need any help.” [laughs] So–so the weekend I came, and they were just trying to stage a public performance and with a

01:18:32.660 - 01:18:44.670

very famous traditional play, like a [speaks Mandarin]. It’s a—so, and immediately, I was put on the stage. Just–just—not a moment.

01:18:45.150 - 01:19:04.060

And say, “We need this character that speaks Beijing dialect, and as a supporting character, and we couldn't find anybody speak Beijing dialect here in Houston, and so you're the perfect one.” So, they costume me up, paint–paint the face, and two

01:19:04.720 - 01:19:20.480

weeks later, we're—I’m on the stage to–to do the performance. But–but that Beijing accent is the–the Chinese opera dialect. Part of the Chinese Opera dialect depends on character— Yeah, but because it's not the–the typical Mandarin,

01:19:21.560 - 01:19:36.630

right? It's–it's [AY: It’s a–it’s not—it’s a more like—] theatrical. Theatrical, Beijing localized accent. [SC: Right, right.] Yeah so, and that’s a perfect fit. No–no doubt about it, and then I'm good at that too [laughs].

01:19:38.030 - 01:19:57.720

So—but, be put it on stage and listen to the mu–the music. Immediately, that kind of—is the kind of my boil–boil blood, from the inside, you know. So, it just—I—you know, it's very expensive to make

01:19:57.810 - 01:20:10.630

long distance calls back to Chi—cross-ocean calls back to China [SC: Right.] It's about—I don't know. I know. Those days, it was three dol— It was one dollar—seven dollar cent—a–a–a minute.

01:20:12.100 - 01:20:31.520

[SC: Right.] [laughs] So, but I pick up a phone and call my father and say, “I need you to send the instrument down here to Houston. I don't care how you do it.” I think it's another several months and my father find a friend, travel to do business—traveling to Houston and

01:20:31.570 - 01:20:47.700

brought me three of those violins, jinghu. So that's from there, and I got involved in the Houston Opera Club, and–and–and I've been the president since what?

01:20:48.380 - 01:21:07.170

2009 to today. So this is—is it—well, there's of course another aspect of this as community-building and interact culturally with–with–with different field, different ethnic groups, and different part of this

01:21:07.260 - 01:21:26.230

country. So there's a big network building here in Texas and Southern US and also traditional metals (?) for Beijing out for like New York, LA, San Francisco, and Chicago, and all

01:21:27.020 - 01:21:43.350

these center town of—for Chinese community, as well as for Chinese opera. But I want to ask you this about how does it feel, like, when you are into Chinese Opera

01:21:43.960 - 01:21:59.750

Club? How does that feel versus, like, you are in your work in this different community? I mean, you belong to that community as well. They respect you and know that, and–and how does that—this is another different

01:21:59.750 - 01:22:17.950

community, which you meet once a week for two hours or three hours? How does that feel? How is it different for these two groups? I have to say, and I personally very amused with American culture, and— [SC: Very what?] I'm–I’m very amused with

01:22:19.000 - 01:22:41.040

Western cultures and the American history, American social buildup. and the humanities, and the traditions, and—but no matter how you're amazed by those things that you were not born with,

01:22:41.820 - 01:23:01.950

what you're born with is always more significant. And when you—just like I said, the—I started work and as a–as a–as a delivery boy then—the walking Houston Street. And when that–when that–when the Chinese opera sounds

01:23:03.290 - 01:23:20.090

echoed in my ear, it's–it's totally different. It's a brings back a lot of things which is–is–is unique to this body and to this in mind. And–and in conjunction with what you expose here.

01:23:20.930 - 01:23:33.910

It's totally different culture, right? So, you find the color of it. And it’s even more amazing, right? And–and also, the culture often kind of become

01:23:36.480 - 01:23:54.660

a kind of catalyst for community-building. And–and–and I told you that–that the president of the club is a VP (?) of a bank—is aged Chinese immigrant from Taiwan.

01:23:56.730 - 01:24:12.220

And a lot of the club member at that time, I think, is 20 and 30 of them. Very passionate people are mostly from Taiwan or Hong Kong, not many from–from mainland. But they're–they’re the last generation.

01:24:12.580 - 01:24:31.890

Very soon, they pass away when we approach a new century, and I'm getting aged and into my middle age. And all of a sudden, know, see around the club is only have five or six people left, of either my age or even older.

01:24:34.240 - 01:24:54.220

Then, as a society, you feel, wow, the loneliness is–is–is coming. And what can I do? I prayed, and I said, probably best pray is my—the instrument I play. Let me just keep playing it.

01:24:55.170 - 01:25:13.700

You know, with only less than 10 members, I still pay for the due on the–the rehearsal studio or–at a Chinese Community Center. I have to lease that— [SC: You mean renting a space.] Renting a space.

01:25:13.740 - 01:25:27.500

Just–just–just from me and plus several other people there for–for the whole afternoon. But I said, “No, I'm not gonna quit just because there's no people coming. If I quit the song, they will be silent.

01:25:28.890 - 01:25:48.880

And there's nobody will hear it no more.” And I just said, “That old guy from Taiwan keep playing it, until he drawed me in, and this club will continue.” If I quit playing, I think he will be very sad.

01:25:49.490 - 01:26:04.530

He would be very sad. So, I just keep playing. Now, my club has almost 40 people—40 member, paying dues. [SC: Wow. 40 people.] So, yeah.

01:26:04.860 - 01:26:15.110

So that's just–that's just amazing. And I think it's—culture is a belief. It’s a faith, almost. If you don't do that, you don't have that faith,

01:26:19.130 - 01:26:39.340

you—well, if you have that faith, you will give back a lot of–a lot of reward to your mindset, to you—to mentality. You feel that kind of pleasuring, or–or–or entertaining feeling inside of you.

01:26:39.870 - 01:26:55.610

So that's the–that's the significance. I–I treat this tradition of culture, and of course another thing naturally fall through is–is much more unique (?) community here, with the same interest

01:26:58.590 - 01:27:19.420

and the same thing, which has unlimited goal to reach. And you practice this, you can–you–you can even keep—I see a folk from knowing nothing about Beijing opera, and join my club, and then now she'll—he can pick up an instrument, or he can sing, and play the character in

01:27:19.890 - 01:27:36.670

full, and can do costumed performance on a stage. Even though it's still very amateur, but you just see that–that kind of passion being built into a human character, and his or her mentality get–get–get–get

01:27:38.270 - 01:27:54.310

transformed into–into some stage or some scenario that is so self-fulfilling and entertaining. And that's–that's a good pleasure that I see is happening through this club.

01:27:54.890 - 01:28:13.320

And plus this thing is always draw attention from other side. Like, I don't want to put it out a bit too much, but just in the past two decades that I've been in Houston, and involved in quite a bit of like

01:28:15.580 - 01:28:37.100

International Festival and all the—what’s it called? We've played quite routinely in–between 2015 to 2019 to the Houston—actually it’s the Texas diplomat circle.

01:28:37.970 - 01:28:58.780

It’s basically all these—the general counselors’ wives and their–their significant members and has this monthly gathering. So, we did the costumes–costume shows, play shows and instrument demonstration.

01:28:58.950 - 01:29:18.940

So, all these things that kind of amazes, that, “Oh–oh wow, the Chinese people are pretty remote to lot of other groups and people, but through this, they probably can see a glimpse of that. Okay. They have their stuff which is

01:29:18.940 - 01:29:36.260

unique and–and also beautiful.” I think that's one of the feedback I got was, “So hey, you guys have a very rich and beautiful stuff.” And of course. a lot of them are still on the surface, not get into yet, but that's a great

01:29:36.340 - 01:29:54.360

start. And that's–that's where I feel kind of self-fulfilling. [SC: Right.] Feel pretty good about it. Okay, um, I love you telling me stories. So, tell me about the craziest or the most exciting

01:29:54.360 - 01:30:14.300

moments in the club—in the Chinese Opera Club. Uh, the most exciting one—it—I think there's–there's a multiple. There's–there's many events in the–in the community, in Chinese community, or, you know, community.

01:30:15.170 - 01:30:32.590

And I think it’s–it's–it’s most—I think most celebrated period of time or–or—of each year is–is truly the Spring Festival. That's Chinese New Year.

01:30:32.720 - 01:30:51.660

So, that's the big–biggest—probably the biggest event or celebration of Chinese community here in America. So, to be part of that and really, I think that's–that’s still quite a-kinda–kinda most intriguing

01:30:52.280 - 01:31:08.960

and exciting moment that you stage a performance and present something that's truly of the neighborhood and truly of the homeland, [laughs] if you may. So, something true, something

01:31:10.270 - 01:31:28.730

genuine that is–that is truly out of the tradition of the Chinese culture, or I think which is a commonly recognized by both Taiwan and Hong Kong, and so there's a lot of neighbors, if you may, really join this kind of festivi—tivity.

01:31:30.720 - 01:31:51.980

And that's still probably the most, yes. Without—yes, I think–I think—I have to admit though, those–those traditions of celebrating this new year and the new beginning, the new start of–of the life, and in a cyc–a cyclical

01:31:52.770 - 01:32:12.550

kind of event that repeats every year since I got here, you know— So it’s like, any—when you put down the program on stage, where there any like scary moment, like, if somebody forgot, or–or something is not there, and you have to, like, to–to pick it up, and this

01:32:12.720 - 01:32:30.420

and that. Something fun, or something scary moment to— Well, I think–I think it's actually a battle, if you may. So the–the–the–the gala—every–every spring festival here in the Chinese community is a great event.

01:32:31.010 - 01:32:51.370

It's a–it's basically whole night event, and in–in theater, or in a conference room that–with a lot of crowds, and here to celebrate. And you have a lot of things, in singing and dancing, and lot of the–the–the–the form of art, performance art

01:32:51.430 - 01:33:08.850

onstage for Chinese, and which is typical for–for the crowds here, and as well as our back in the mainland, or home in Taiwan or some of the people celebrate those things. And–and–and you have different stages.

01:33:09.390 - 01:33:26.820

And here, but in Houston, in New York, like in New York, like in LA, this is probably the biggest single event in the year. And to get a space for that, it’s a struggling— Yes, but–but is it any moment you remember that was so scary.

01:33:26.890 - 01:33:41.610

You thought you're not going to be able to put on—people onstage. People forget their lines, and just–just something—any incidents you can remember that was fun— Well, I remember the–the–the first one, it was back

01:33:42.570 - 01:34:00.130

in—probably around 1995 and ’90-‘96. As well, first time we–we put Peking opera, Beijing opera in that—the big show. I remember we were given only

01:34:01.080 - 01:34:20.180

seven minutes. Okay, in the whole show of two, three hours. You–you think about it, the opera, that's the most scary thing and the most challenging thing, but–but I think, well, if I don't do it, probably nobody would do it [laughs]—would have been able to do it, and nobody would seen that.

01:34:20.340 - 01:34:35.850

And also, in the seven minute, we have to put up the–the whole new show, a real show, right? So not just standard singing, not just—you need to put a dancing, you need to put performance and dialoguing, and

01:34:36.450 - 01:34:55.420

mostly, musically, you–you got to be very striking and a very eye-catching and ear-catching not–not a—not something dull, not something should—typically, for Beijing opera, is–is a stroll (?) storytelling. But in seven minutes, you wanna tell a story that's very challenging

01:34:56.670 - 01:35:15.700

and very, very, very exciting and we picked three players and did one very briefed, or condensed performance with sword fighting, with singing, and with face painting, with a full

01:35:15.700 - 01:35:27.670

costume in seven or eight minutes. Yeah, but it was just thrilling to the audience back in—what is the theater name at U of H? University of Houston.

01:35:28.710 - 01:35:43.310

And -Allen Theater. Yeah, I think that's the name of the theater. And so, the first time I staged a performance overseas— And everybody did well, nobody forget the–the costume, [AY: Oh, yeah—] and nobody forget the line?

01:35:43.310 - 01:36:01.170

Yeah, well, the—when we–when we kind of left the theater, and after the show, and it was—saw a lot of folks, and well, we were–were still—some are still have a face painting on [laughs]. And–and I try to shake hands with–with each other kind of celebrate that–that–that

01:36:02.150 - 01:36:22.260

and–and–and I was–I was picked up. It was quite several leaders of the community, and saying—say, “Well, this is something—most genuine piece of Chinese tradition and culture,” or that kind of thing. And even some–some–some, I would

01:36:22.320 - 01:36:40.710

say, true Americans, and then they hear the–the–the university—I think the Dean of the B-school (?), actually it was, of course, my teacher at the time, and I was in the–in the B-school (?).

01:36:40.780 - 01:37:01.660

So, I invited the faculty to join and to kind of come [unintelligible] and they said, “Wow, I didn't–I didn't teach you that [laughs] in B-school, but it seems a bring on a whole school of tradition and cultural stuff, judging that very brief thing, and

01:37:01.710 - 01:37:20.550

it's amazing.” [SC: Right.] So that's–that's the most rewarding moment that I thought I put the effort, and—in that seven or eight minutes with–with probably a good two, three months of practicing, rehearsing, and put things together, make sure the audio, the video

01:37:21.100 - 01:37:35.280

effect—or the visual and audio effects are–are catching the audience. And I think that labor paid off big time then, so— So your audience—so I–I—so you

01:37:35.280 - 01:37:49.970

also perform outside of Chinatown? [AY: Right.] So, your audiences to the general American audience. [AY: Yes.] So, it's not only–only that Chinatown, so that's–that's—[unintelligible] [AY: Right, right.] and their reaction was always really

01:37:51.920 - 01:38:08.290

amazed about this culture and what you can do. So [AY: Exactly.] that's it—so you're—also when your colleagues, when you are working at the show, and when you went your current company, does your colleagues knows you can do this? Did they come to your show?

01:38:09.440 - 01:38:20.390

Well, not really. Either those–those–those environment, but very soon, I think somebody heard our show and–and approached me. Actually it’s—uh, what’s

01:38:24.120 - 01:38:42.110

the–what's a—it’s not the superintendent of the Fort Bend ISD. It's a–a assistant to the Fort Bend ISD, and approached me and say–say, “Hey, our high school has all kinds of club and cultural club, right? So, from all ethnic groups, and–and I heard of your show.”

01:38:42.860 - 01:39:01.460

Well, this is many years after, we have multiple shows. And even at Rice University, we–we had—we have the gala and performance for the Chinese Student Association, or Asian Student Association, or something like that, and we do those

01:39:01.460 - 01:39:21.680

things. That's a kind of—word spread around, and so the Fort Bend ISD kind of–kind of touch base with me, and say, “Hey, you want to do a seminar and–to kind of promote this kind of thing, through our Asian Culture Club?” Say, at Clements High School, or Highland (?)

01:39:23.170 - 01:39:41.270

—Collin (?) High School. What else? Dulles High School. So that's—those––those–those moments that I see a good chance to kind of embe–embed some seeds there. And for—at least showing that we're doing what this

01:39:41.270 - 01:39:49.740

club’s doing, and–and there's a–there's a difference there. There's diversity there. Oh, but your colleagues. Your coworkers.

01:39:49.740 - 01:40:04.800

Have they seen? [AY: Right.] Your colleagues right now, have they seen it? Oh, yes, actually, I have a colleague—I have quite several of colleagues who are musicians, and they do have their own club, and some in

01:40:04.940 - 01:40:23.690

jazz, and some in pop music. And I have a very—my former boss is–is–is–is bass guitar player at Madison, Wisconsin, and so, I made quite several trip just to go there to meet him.

01:40:24.130 - 01:40:43.740

And, of course, he is nice enough to say he tried to arrange those work travels, and for me—and so just—well, set up some projects that–that require me to be outside in Madison. Then, join him to show me his club and also ask

01:40:44.810 - 01:41:01.710

me to bring the instrument and show him. And he saw some of the videos that—our performance, he was very interested. Although, Madison is a town that don't have a whole lot of Oriental people, but you just see that kind of interaction, musically

01:41:03.460 - 01:41:19.710

is–is–is amazing, and–and I don't quite understand his stuff. He doesn't quite understand—he didn't quite understand my stuff, but we’re sitting all in the club. And I played a sound, actually with some audience in there. I just heard screaming out of the audience.

01:41:21.290 - 01:41:33.970

“Wow.” This is–this is the minute I opened up a string play. Just—“Wow, this sound—” and somebody approached me and say, “Hey, you sounds like a trumpet.” I said, “Really?

01:41:34.620 - 01:41:54.230

Well, I think—I never thought that way.” But, I thought this, this string instrument can have similar high pitch like–like a trumpet. So those are the–some of the excitement of the contact. And I have another friend, colleague, actually, his name is Dennis, and

01:41:54.340 - 01:42:13.780

he plays—he is–he’s a drummer at Dallas-Fort Worth. Fort Worth, Dallas, and he has his—he’s—he’s a band member, and–and actually, this COVID-19 brought us a lot closer. We do a lot of Zoom meeting, and it just–just—just showing each other's

01:42:14.350 - 01:42:25.610

play, and instruments. That's really great fun, and even though it's still hard to bridge lot of the musical language here, right? So, you know Beijing opera’s—is–is very, very

01:42:28.290 - 01:42:46.420

oriental unique. So, to them, I mean—so, but they all expressed that kind of excitement of the [SC: Right.] impact of the music. And–and I'm amazed that the—how

01:42:47.180 - 01:43:03.220

they can accept this thing. So, I often feel afraid of that–that this may scare somebody [laughs]. My music may scared somebody, but to the contrary, that it was–it was taken in. So, that kind of recall that Dr.

01:43:03.610 - 01:43:23.580

Mei Lanfang, like 70, 80 years back and then visit New York and–and make that kind of disturbance, if you may, or excitement, of appreciation of this kind of art form. So, when you were—when you perform, or practice

01:43:24.360 - 01:43:40.060

the–the Chinese opera in China, it's different from when you perform it here, right? [AY: Definitely. That’s–that’s—] What's the difference? Like in Tai—when you were in China, when you perform, seems to be nothing

01:43:40.510 - 01:43:56.000

big deal, because people practice there [AY: Right. Right, it’s—]. Here, it's because you're different, and you—people appreciate it more, so did you—I mean, I want–I want to hear how you–how you feel differently, that you feel—

01:43:56.710 - 01:44:16.050

Well, all these events I've talked about earlier, yes. It–it brings the impact, once at a time, okay. So, it just keep accumulating that make me believe that you–you should not feel too awkward

01:44:16.780 - 01:44:35.750

about showing your culture, the genuine character or characteristic of your–your culture, or your tradition, and your art form. And which is a—is often you thought—well, I just believe

01:44:35.800 - 01:44:55.500

it's much easier than I thought it was. To really bridge over, or to messaging out through the music notes, or the performance on the stage to foreign audience, that–that I really–really–really—being the first time is

01:44:55.670 - 01:45:10.150

pretty scary, you know, to see with–with a–with a local and American audience watching this thing, and so it's–it's–it's amazing. I–I don’t—yeah.

01:45:11.910 - 01:45:26.360

There must be some challenging—challenge, too right? [AY: Oh yeah, yes.] And as rewarding it is, there is a lot of challenges, too. [AY: There's a lot of challenges, and like—] Tell me–tell me your couple of them The biggest challenges is–is—it’s a performance art.

01:45:26.360 - 01:45:39.310

It’s a stage art, a performance, right? So it's–it’s like an opera, you have stories. If you cannot convey the–the story in the local language, and then—and the local audience will not get it.

01:45:40.180 - 01:45:55.500

And they–they may–they may get striked. They may get hit by the musical piece of, and strange enough, but if you don't bring in the story into it, and they will not appreciate the—

01:45:55.870 - 01:46:03.650

What do you resolve that (unintelligible)? Well, translation is a big hard work. Do you have a super title? Yes, I do.

01:46:03.730 - 01:46:24.380

I do have—most of time, we have script projection, and when the start progress, and most like—well, I did most of it myself, and some of my club members are pretty good at English and Chinese translations, and with a pretty good—so,

01:46:25.160 - 01:46:45.170

I did most part of this and do a lot translations there. And try to make it understandable and appreciable and more like, in—well, my English is still Chinglish, but–but–but–but I tried my best, and sometimes get to some professional s-script-reader, and it's helped

01:46:45.170 - 01:46:59.340

me to fine tune those. But you know, music is expens—well, artistic work are expensive, and you need time and you need resource to do that. So that's challenging, really.

01:46:59.770 - 01:47:11.670

So I— What are challenges you have? Well, I wouldn't–I wouldn't be able to hi-hire a better scripter or translators, and also like a presentation

01:47:13.080 - 01:47:31.630

in the–in the–in the more, like, 3D way. So, with a musical explanation—so, with a lyric explanations, with what the actors singing, and what the–the background stories. And then also, when you print out the brochure, and you laid out

01:47:31.630 - 01:47:50.680

all these–all these subtracks, or–or–or briefings of all those stories, and–and let the–let the foreign audience really start to see all these–all these developments of stories, and then clap, becomes meaningful at the end.

01:47:50.880 - 01:48:13.430

I think that's–that's–that's my experience and also my struggle, so how do you—if–if it's not a native audience, to–to–to see our–our performance, and–and we often struggle. So, what is–what is—who are the target audience?

01:48:14.160 - 01:48:34.630

That's—it’s—like a—we plan to—we have a 2019 year-end plan at the Miller Center theater [laughs] with–with all the—so I spent a lot, but it was cancelled, due to the COVID. So—but my plan was really to—really have

01:48:35.380 - 01:48:52.820

a big screens projection of–of the whole development of the stories and the lyrics and explanations and the—just draw a much wider audience into this and make sure they aren't—not seeing something totally foreign and—without understanding what is the story.

01:48:53.360 - 01:49:09.720

So, that is—if any challenge is to bridge cross this thing better, with more effectiveness, I think. I think that's the–that's the one big challenge that I face. What about other things, like practicing to ca—rehearsal

01:49:10.420 - 01:49:28.470

together, and members and–and— Oh that's–that's obviously very tough, and we're hobby-based, and so you will see member come and then go. And a good member—hate to see—good players, the bass

01:49:28.720 - 01:49:47.170

players—it’s our erhu (?) players, or the–the drummers left. And then they almost crypto you—cripple—crypt—to make you’re totally unoption–operationable. So, it's always was my focus

01:49:47.170 - 01:50:03.620

to recruit players, or the hobbyist and–and within the club. So, we have multiple fill-ins for the same position.

01:50:03.640 - 01:50:18.080

So, to keep one full band, at least. That's–that's the–that's the musical challenge, right? So if you don't have the band, you have no performance. So yeah, I think–I think the—

01:50:18.160 - 01:50:36.410

How many players do you have right now? We got about 35 to 40ish long-term members and—meaning they’re regular, join the club activities and practices weekly, and also paid dues

01:50:36.540 - 01:50:47.760

[laughs]. That’s–that’s important. So you mean [unintelligible] that each–each Sunday, well, 35 people come practice? It's–it's–it's routine before.

01:50:48.810 - 01:51:05.490

Now, we're picking up a little bit more—prior COVID-19, and we have about—routinely, you will see 25 to 30ish in a–in a–in a company, and that's very crowded already, you know.

01:51:05.490 - 01:51:22.260

[SC: No, it is.] Yeah, so, but you're—normally you would have, like–like, at least 10 member of the band there. So, half of—more than two thirds of them, let’s say. 15 to 25 people are singing, so that is the—that is

01:51:22.300 - 01:51:42.650

norm of how our–our club operates, right? So, people coming in—A, is for the fun, and for their own hobby and to—for their own practice and rehearsal and improvement. And B, it's always the goal of

01:51:42.980 - 01:52:00.360

this artist go on the stage, and–and do the real performances, and do a whole play. Do a whole story, and do a whole opera. And–and so that is the ultimate goal, and that drives a lot of members in

01:52:00.440 - 01:52:14.510

here, that's what we—me as a leader and then typically spend a lot of energy to nurture, and to help to facilitate, at least keep the fun going. So…

01:52:14.510 - 01:52:25.430

How do you identify yourself? Do you identify yourself as Chinese or American or Chinese American? How do you identify yourself? I–I identify myself more American than Chinese.

01:52:26.890 - 01:52:43.800

Well, of course, I'm a citizen of the country. And no doubt about it, that the minute I swear in—I–I swore myself in, I took it seriously. And I—it took a lot of thoughts, and–and I cannot

01:52:44.430 - 01:52:56.730

say that I don't have no struggle at all. So I don’t— And you—do feel comfortable to talk about it? You feel—you say you cannot say you have no struggle—doesn’t have struggle.

01:52:57.490 - 01:53:16.500

Can you tell me a little bit about how—what kind of struggle you have? How do you embrace–embrace that identity? Well, I think I think like most Oriental countries, or particular Chinese, has a very strong attributes of their—attributed back to

01:53:16.630 - 01:53:37.670

their–to their origin and to the–to the root, if you may. But what the struggle is that you do have this something called American culture, that--which is embedded with a lot of

01:53:37.670 - 01:53:54.850

different things that in your root culture you don't see, right? Say, personality, personal characteristics, and freedom, and most importantly, freedom of thoughts or ideas.

01:53:56.270 - 01:54:15.140

That's–that's what I feel was the initial drive for me to–to leave where I was born and come over here, and so I–I–I never shy away from saying this.

01:54:15.780 - 01:54:33.770

That's a total transformation of my vision and my view of what is a true person, in this world, disregard his nationality, and that's the value. And same thing, like, the—we perform

01:54:34.980 - 01:54:46.300

Beijing opera here. That's–that's the very artistic stuff. Does it involve nationality? Obviously, it does. But does that contradict to my choice of nationality?

01:54:47.250 - 01:55:05.090

No, it doesn't. I still believe culturally, I'm a Chinese. But if you wanna—if I’m asked what–what–what country I belong to, I belong here, because I took my vow very seriously.

01:55:06.050 - 01:55:23.950

And I took—well, even if like–like, Taiwan, or maybe another country allowed the double nationality, or a double–double citizenship, I–I–I wouldn't even consider that. It's–it's–it's—that’s not the matter.

01:55:23.950 - 01:55:41.010

It’s what you take as your land of home, that's important. That you dedicated yourself to the lifestyle, to the richness of the soil. I'm not saying that China is not a great land.

01:55:41.460 - 01:55:58.570

It's a great land. I can–I can spend my—rest of life there too, as a guest. I can be living there very comfortably, and—but I have to say, I'll be much more comfortable living here. Have you been back to China since?

01:55:58.800 - 01:56:13.980

Oh, almost every year. I send my kids back, and also, through my church, I do church mission back in China. Asia, and Taiwan, Hong Kong, and Japan.

01:56:14.740 - 01:56:32.060

And our church has many mission trips, and that I–I took my kids to, or encourage them to–to serve in those areas. And so, again, that's another side of the story—of faith.

01:56:32.570 - 01:56:51.690

And I don't—well, I don't feel any conflict. I can–I can incorporate all these things together, and just feel more enriched from each side. You know, faith, your religion, and your cultural background, and your–your–your spirit

01:56:52.490 - 01:57:04.570

of settlements. Okay, I–I feel myself more like a cowboy, kind of wandering around this piece of land. But really, truly enjoyed it.

01:57:04.570 - 01:57:19.960

Identity-wise, you see yourself American. Not even Chinese American? No. Well–well, that's very, very vague. I mean, not a very—if you have to

01:57:20.020 - 01:57:31.340

choose a balance, here. Yeah, I would take that term. [SC: Which term?] Okay, Chinese American, but at the end (?) you're American? [SC: Yes.] That’s (?).

01:57:31.730 - 01:57:44.380

Two English word, Chinese American. Well, even the people— Well, the first one is only saying that you were born there, but— Well, no, even people who were born here—Chinese American

01:57:44.380 - 01:58:04.230

borns. They will still identifying themselves as a Chinese American. I really don’t know. I really don’t know how my kids identify themselves, and they—in their eyes, I think their faith kind of helped them to identify more clearly who are they,

01:58:05.020 - 01:58:21.840

and where they want to belong, and—but it's truly now the history—the human history comes to this stage. Really, where you’re from, and where you’re born, become much, much less relevant to your citizenship.

01:58:22.640 - 01:58:36.940

And yeah, I know, there's a lot—can be a very big debate out there. I–I can–I can foresee that. I mean, I ca—actually daily experience that in our own community, okay, so.

01:58:37.720 - 01:58:49.430

Experience what? Can you explain? Well, you just—like you said, that term, Chinese American, you got a Chinese, American, and this—there’s two poles there, right? So, it can be closer, being a one.

01:58:49.430 - 01:59:06.160

It can be dragged along to the two extremes. And so hey, I live here, I'm Chinese—or I live here, I'm American. So, that's the differences are—that I can only speak for myself, that’s how I feel.

01:59:06.160 - 01:59:29.470

I think—just listen to my saying this: for a native-born a—particular, back in that age of Chinese history, and just say this. What I just said is already big jump out of the normal box of thinking, you know, so I may offend

01:59:29.470 - 01:59:44.410

somebody. But I don't care, really, what I'm saying is just for myself. You see, just say this is not a normal thinking, or normal mentality of typical mainlander. Well what—oh, for mainlander, I see.

01:59:44.560 - 01:59:59.050

Yes, for mainlander. This is—you see this is—what my past is and I wouldn’t dare to say, “Hey, this is representing myself.” [ I see.] No, you’re represented by the king, or you’re represented by the rulers,

02:00:00.850 - 02:00:15.840

right? So that’s called official. Even today, I think it's still pretty much that—in that mentality. I would never give up anything to go back there. I mean, I would never trade anything for that.

02:00:16.310 - 02:00:31.430

What—I mean, that's–that's really chaos, that's really nightmare to go back. All I'm saying is that. What I say— You feel–you feel– [AY: …transformation.] you feel

02:00:33.630 - 02:00:48.650

totally involved in this country, and totally feel [AY: I do. I—] part of this—moving to this country, and do you have any experience of discrimination that people didn't think, like you said, one time people say, “Go back to your own country”?

02:00:48.650 - 02:01:05.420

[AY: Yeah.] Do you [unintelligible] kind of experience? And I don't–I don't–I don't really think too much of that, during the past several years, and particular, the political cycle here, that the right or left, and

02:01:06.610 - 02:01:26.830

black and white, and all these–all these heebie-jeebies (?). And I think—if you are a people with a spirit of appreciation, rather than bigotry, or complaining, or whining,

02:01:28.270 - 02:01:47.180

and focus on enriching yourself, you cannot appreciate less about America than anywhere else in this globe you can find. I mean, that is that is my feeling, okay?

02:01:47.350 - 02:02:06.140

That is what made me come down, facing some of the—even hatred, right? So, I think this–this past 200 years or two–two, some hundred years of this—the history of this–this land proves that tolerance

02:02:07.100 - 02:02:23.540

and forgiveness is the foundation of this society. And that's the mainstream. If you're talking about mainstream, it’s not about your color, it’s about what you believe in, right?

02:02:23.630 - 02:02:40.100

You believe in care. You believe in forgiveness, and you believe in—I don't know, lack of a better term, then just quote the Bible says, and–and make your enemy—love your enemy.

02:02:40.290 - 02:02:59.630

That's–that's what Jesus does, right, so—sorry, I don't—I don’t want to try to be—pollute this conversation with–with religion belief. But, I think that's what I personally believe is the foundation of the culture of this land, which I appreciate

02:03:00.080 - 02:03:13.810

[laughs] very, very much. Now, can you tell me another story of—you–you just mentioned tolerance and forgiving? Can you tell me another story after you establish

02:03:15.020 - 02:03:27.370

yourself—you’re professional, making good money? Can you tell me a story of that experience that similarly to the—you—pizza delivery [laughs] story? Can you–can you imagine?

02:03:27.370 - 02:03:46.590

Can you—is it any story that you remember? Uh, I think it's different, right? In–in the community you live, versus

02:03:47.220 - 02:04:07.510

the place your work, or you make your living of, or through. To me, make a living is a vehicle or is a–is a method, but truly enjoy your neighborhood is another. So, I mostly find in the—when you pursue your career, and

02:04:08.220 - 02:04:18.500

you will see all kinds of social treatment. That's inavoidable. That's inevitable, almost, that—being a minority,

02:04:23.010 - 02:04:38.530

I think it's—you call it discrimination, that's okay. I can–I can say, that's a very, very accurate description, but it's out of human nature, right? So, majority have that kind of comfort.

02:04:39.510 - 02:05:01.680

So, you look back before male and female, or–or women's rights. The startup—kind of rise from the horizon into–into–into this social binocular, that it becomes a focus of the stuff and you will see—this–this–this is–this is very

02:05:01.710 - 02:05:18.810

natural. Be-because man a dominating majority in the workplace, you know, all these fields in the leadership and all that. So now, you just see this balance has started–started coming in, and through the progression of the society, and through the progression of the

02:05:18.810 - 02:05:33.120

civilization. I think that's–that's a—I think–I think that America gives us the best shot in the human history that created this–thisthis nurturing around for that kind of equality.

02:05:33.780 - 02:05:51.410

And, of course, yeah, a lot of people are always looking—I cannot call that “greed,” but it's always–always looking for more, right? So, and–and–and then sometimes it flips, and I say, over–overly emphasize that.

02:05:51.790 - 02:06:11.660

That can hurt—that can be hurting, but what my point is that, my working experiences, there’s multiple events that I fully kind of self-examine [unintelligible], I deserve this–this–this progressing, or promotion and to a—to a certain goal,

02:06:12.120 - 02:06:30.060

but it didn't—fall through, and some accidental replacement, and make me feel hurting, if you know what I'm saying that. Yeah, it's–it's, there's multiple elements into this.

02:06:30.720 - 02:06:45.670

Basically say, alumni and same race—racial—I cannot deny that that's–that's a factor into it. And that stopped me at that moment. And that made me feel very painful.

02:06:46.920 - 02:07:07.330

Okay, my—well, I–I–I–I feel insulted. [SC: Yeah.] I cannot–I can–I can–I can prove that–that I'm a–I'm a better qualified candidate or anything, and—given that. And now, I have my own kids, and go into US college

02:07:07.330 - 02:07:23.640

system, and the barrier is different, on race base, right? So, am I thinking about that? I do. I complain about that? I do. But that—does that really

02:07:25.100 - 02:07:39.610

impact how I educate my kids? How I help them or facilitate them to progress, and how do I coach them to mitigate this kind of–kind of pressure, right?

02:07:40.030 - 02:07:57.890

So, that's important. I think, is that—the show my kids the complain, and the bigotry, and the sense of treated—being treated unfairly is not important.

02:07:58.840 - 02:08:19.960

[SC: No.] What's important is to—how do you get around it? How do you—if you want to fight, how do you effectively fight it? Or, how do you kind of develop a kind of social strength

02:08:21.350 - 02:08:36.890

on that. So, that kind of work around it. I volunteer for community leadership, right? So, like HOA, and neighborhood representative, I support my wife to be the representatives, and–and–and try to create a lot of community,

02:08:38.230 - 02:08:55.360

kind of, union and, kind of, common ground to–to—at least as a place that as neighbor, and we can talk to each other, or I can communicate—set up this channel of communication. I think those are—those—I show my kids.

02:08:55.360 - 02:09:11.780

And if you want to lead, and you want to impact, that is way to do it, instead of here, I–I tweet. This–this–this a bad story. I cry, I yelled,

02:09:13.570 - 02:09:32.440

and conf–confront, directly during the event. I think it's more health—is healthier to be involved even in the other side of the community. So, when we send the kids to do—so, warm Christmas lunch,

02:09:33.560 - 02:09:46.610

and—for neighborhood, for poor neighborhood. That's where you see the true blurry of racial boundary and class boundary. Rich and poor.

02:09:47.020 - 02:09:58.810

Black and white. Yellow and black. That becomes, at least, blurred. Kids’ eyes, and my eyes. I feel it. I sense it.

02:09:58.810 - 02:10:16.330

So that's–that's how I see, at least—it’s–it’s my–my way to effectively and less emotionally deal with those kinds of things— Are your–are your kids politically active?

02:10:17.880 - 02:10:31.660

Uh, they vote. They vote against my will [laughs]. So, they are socially active at college.

02:10:31.660 - 02:10:43.340

[unintelligible] you showing them that instead of sitting there and complain, you do something. Be a leader, right? Right, be a leader. Be action [SC: Right.]. Taking an action is more important than just—

02:10:43.960 - 02:10:59.370

Well, they—do they–they take your advice and become a lead—strong leader? I hope they will, but [SC: Not yet.] well, young people are different. I mean, particularly through adolescence and

02:10:59.640 - 02:11:11.280

into—through teenagers and into– One of you kids is older, right? One of your kids is— Yeah, one of the kids are already graduated, and work, and continuing education,

02:11:12.550 - 02:11:31.520

work and study. And so, he's pursuing—well, you see that they have the leisure, not like–like my–my career I have no choice, and then back in mainland, you–you don't have no choice, right? So to choose what you do, and

02:11:39.190 - 02:11:50.520

what–what future you can plan out. But, here, in the States, their generations are different. That's–that’s another thing I appreciated, right? So, it benefited my next generation.

02:11:50.980 - 02:12:07.890

Every choices. And say, I'm computer analyst today, and tomorrow, I want to be a doctor. Like, you can. But, it's unthinkable. It was unthinkable in my young time. So [laughs], so that's a great benefit and–and–and I have to say sometimes

02:12:08.680 - 02:12:21.600

they—well, even sometimes. I'm not happy about they squander this kind of privilege. But I think this is a completely new era of human history, and it's always like that.

02:12:22.450 - 02:12:28.300

Next generation will progress in the world. We'll keep going. And no matter— [laughs]. So—

02:12:28.770 - 02:12:50.720

So I want to ask you, what do you think of the relationship between Taiwan and China? Oh, I think…that idea has a great transformation, and that's all because of—that—my

02:12:52.250 - 02:13:05.010

idea toward Taiwan changes a lot, and as a mainlander, before I came here, that's enemy territory, okay? Or that—or then, that–that's all [unintelligible]. [laughs] [unintelligible] That’s how we think about you.

02:13:05.190 - 02:13:16.220

[laughs] The same thing. Yeah, right? So, “we're gonna kill you,” [SC: Right, we’re gonna [unintelligible] you [laughs].] and so that's terrible part of civ—any civil war, right? So you create enemies.

02:13:16.950 - 02:13:37.110

That's–that's what I hate most, and after I came here and the—look at well, my club is—was–was–was just–just full of two sides of people, and being there, and I just see, there are different attitudes and different emotion there.

02:13:37.170 - 02:13:56.670

And it depends on where you're from, and that you have—we–we–we do have—called [speaks Mandarin] who are–who are the escapees from mainland to the island, right? So pretty much common with the national–the nationalist government, and so— [SC: Green parties and blue parties.] Exactly.

02:13:57.560 - 02:14:15.350

So, but I–I do believe from my own experience that social environment for any individual is a choice—should be a choice. That is basic humanity.

02:14:16.140 - 02:14:29.220

You should not be ruled by somebody politically. It should not be driven by any ideology, or any philosophy system, or any beliefs.

02:14:29.860 - 02:14:44.250

Even religion should not govern that. A people should have a choice of where he belongs to and where he's actually—he is–he is—his origin is.

02:14:44.590 - 02:15:00.040

And that's totally based on social experience of generations. And truly, what you believe in, what do you cherish, what you value most? That is people's choice. That–that's part of the humanity and the human rights, and there is no doubt about it,

02:15:00.950 - 02:15:19.370

and any size, no matter be the size of the population, of the land, the mass, that doesn't matter, right? That's–that's the supreme point of the humanity concept to here.

02:15:19.600 - 02:15:37.630

Not just in English, and then the traditional Chinese philosophy has all embedded this. But, too bad, it's been muddied with the royal, or feudalist governance. That has been the kind of been a key line of the Chinese history.

02:15:37.740 - 02:15:54.980

So that is where I see the conflict is. I would–I would–I would really cherish for the Chinese people’s (?) choice, if they want to really be independent. I—this is–this is very, very different—it would be very different statement

02:15:55.300 - 02:16:12.160

20 years back. [SC: Right, so, if you—] If you ask me 20 years back, I will say, “Hey, down (?) Taiwan. We–we're going to take it over.” But–so— Some people think that, you know—some people think that Chinese

02:16:13.390 - 02:16:27.300

democracy cannot be part of—it shouldn't be Chinese political direction, [AY: Right.] right? But if you look at Taiwan, it's totally democracy, you know, a democratic country. And so, it works really well.

02:16:27.300 - 02:16:40.770

So it's not true that the communists belong to—it’s own only good for—no, it's–it’s not true. So— It's–it's proved at that, repeatedly in human history, that one

02:16:40.770 - 02:17:02.440

dominance of ideology, or religion belief, or political thoughts, or philosophy, can be very suppressing. And creates a human tragedy, and just smashed down, or

02:17:02.970 - 02:17:18.840

really dwell upon one’s–one humanity, or one thoughts of a belief versus another. So, that's not fair. So, as a–as a–as being—as a human being created

02:17:20.970 - 02:17:40.200

equal–equally, and that is the fundamental, so that's why I fully believe American culture and American beliefs, or American Dreams, is totally based on that belief. Then, that is–that is what—so called a modern (?) democracy.

02:17:41.090 - 02:17:58.710

At least before we all die, well, after we all die, who knows what this human being society will become? But, as long as we live in this age, I think the most events—most rationalized humanity

02:17:58.710 - 02:18:08.640

definition is on this land. That's my belief. So, I think— One time–one time I was in China, and I took a taxi.

02:18:08.640 - 02:18:25.010

For some reason, we talk about you know, China's—you should take over Taiwan. Usually, you do not get—you do not get into that with a taxi driver, and a taxi driver start talking about it. And he said, “Oh, of course the two countries should be united,

02:18:25.320 - 02:18:44.090

but Taiwan should take over China, because we want freedom” [laughs]. Well, I would say there's only one piece—well. I always argue with it–with–with friends and folks back there, in Beijing or Shanghai, and well, I'm talking about the–the

02:18:44.880 - 02:19:00.830

people so-called intellectuals, right? So, they are educated, and they know—they’re mostly Western-educated. So, students finish degree and go back to China and have their career there.

02:19:01.830 - 02:19:21.360

And officials and all these—my same age people, and there are a lot nationalism. Still, the sentiment of nationalism and say, “Okay, Taiwan is a–is a part of China.” I think you can argue that, but on top of that–on top of that,

02:19:21.720 - 02:19:44.210

the one concept nobody can argue with me is that, is the society or is the motherland more important than the individual? Nobody—well, with that question, normally will follow with the silence. Either in the WeChat, or this debate, or just, I went back and travel

02:19:44.310 - 02:19:59.550

back and talk to man (?). Said, “Hey, ask yourself: is yourself more important than this town?” [SC: Well, you—] Well, folks say–say–say, “I will sacrifice with my country,” and all this political stuff, brainwash and

02:20:00.070 - 02:20:17.430

all I can say (?), I was like that, 20, 30—back 34 years back, when I was kid. I was–I was brainwashed, I was chanting those slogans same way. I understand that, but doesn't prove they're right.

02:20:18.070 - 02:20:30.810

They're wrong. They're wrong. They're definitely wrong. So— You are truly—you’re true American. You believe in the freedom, because you've been here for so long, you really have

02:20:30.990 - 02:20:41.160

brainwashed by America [laughs]. Believe in freedom, believe into individual [laughs]. So you’re a true American. Yeah, they–they–they can call me that.

02:20:41.270 - 02:20:59.270

You’re deli—brainwashed by the American Dream, and well, I meant that. That's okay. But I—the difference is that I was a brainwashed once. Now, I was brainwashed again.

02:20:59.800 - 02:21:10.440

I, at least, I had no comparison. I know how to compare. That is difference. You guys don't know. You don't—you only washed once. You haven't been washed twice yet.

02:21:11.700 - 02:21:27.360

So, and that makes the difference, doesn't that? So, I think—yeah, well. This is–this is—I–I [laughs] sorry, doc—sorry, professor. I was–I was a–I was a little off a tangent here.

02:21:27.970 - 02:21:39.090

Too much about myself, truly. Oh, no, no, this is about you. This is absolutely about you [laughs]. I want to ask you, what are your hopes for the Chinese opera

02:21:41.660 - 02:21:50.310

club? Oh, that's a tough question. I think— [laughs] It’s just talking right; you can dream (?) It takes a lot—

02:21:50.740 - 02:22:07.600

I have to admit, I'm getting old. And when you're getting old, approaching retirement, and you’re thinking about, okay, is this part of your–your emotion, your passion, and

02:22:08.370 - 02:22:16.310

how long you gonna carry it? My–my predecessor really died on shift, you know? Die on what?

02:22:17.460 - 02:22:35.840

Meaning that he dies as a president, and–and we—he didn't retire out of this club president. Just, at the time, that will say okay. Nobody ever say you're old enough to be a leader [laughs] here.

02:22:36.260 - 02:22:53.470

So, pretty much—so, I think that's a great honor. You know, so you thinking about about it, that you have–you have a group of people that like to sit around you, and let you

02:22:54.110 - 02:23:03.870

to set the tone, and let you to, say, help to—well, a lot of work. A lot of service, if you may. My eyes, that’s just service.

02:23:04.770 - 02:23:15.940

But, truly, my services are respected. And that I will— [laughs] as long as–as I wasn’t voted off, and I would owe to keep it. [laughs] So, be selfish.

02:23:16.700 - 02:23:31.890

I enjoy a lot. And then, I spent a lot, and I made a lot of effort. I feel pride out of it. And I'll continue with that. That's kind of a part of my life, and I'll continue

02:23:32.430 - 02:23:53.320

to do that. And whatever we do like this–this new channel that opened with your help to–to–to certain–to certain extent is to expand, to other community or mainstream, or whatever way that we can demonstrate

02:23:54.090 - 02:24:05.040

ourselves a little bit more. Introduce this–this unique culture product, if you may, in the market. So, that’s–that’s fun. That’s—

02:24:05.150 - 02:24:22.290

You have anything more concrete? Like, you're gonna have more members, or more audience, or more performances, or more–? We’re facing, or—I do statistics too, and like I

02:24:23.400 - 02:24:43.760

described earlier. I mean, last time about the crisis that we only have four or five people left, and the last generation just gone. Most of the Taiwanese or Hong Kong is that—they’re just gone. And now, my same age and started

02:24:43.760 - 02:25:02.010

picking up this thing, and join the club, and find the fun in there, to created this kind of—to nurturing this kind of hobby and this kind of cultural environment is very tough, and we're not popular, no doubt about it. In young--particularly in gen—younger generation.

02:25:03.080 - 02:25:26.420

And we have our youngest, like, in his thirties—or, less—the youngest. And I always try to tell—open a school for opera training, for little young kids and from there, but it didn’t end—well, I had a couple of students,

02:25:26.770 - 02:25:41.560

and—but there's just a lot of other interests there. This thing is way too boring, or unattractive, to young kids. I have to admit that these—this

02:25:44.320 - 02:26:01.670

artistic format, like opera—Beijing opera is alike symphony. All these classical stuff has started fading away from the younger generation as populous

02:26:02.930 - 02:26:21.100

artistic format. But, to—what I—another thing I came to–to United States I appreciate most is their museum system. My hobby to travel

02:26:21.640 - 02:26:35.650

across this country, no matter how small the town is, there's a museum there. Just like a—go to Freeport, there’s a marine museum. And just talking about how Freeport—this–this is–this

02:26:37.030 - 02:26:53.450

is–this is a town–small town of–of Texas, and how they–how they started from a small fishing village. And well, that's a history. That's a preserv–preservation that's reserved.

02:26:55.490 - 02:27:12.100

This is part of the young culture of America that actually give Beijing opera a chance to preserve on this land, you think about it? Yes. Like, the costume shows,

02:27:14.000 - 02:27:27.820

they—that we told—we plan out, and those things are very unique. And one day, I probably will open up a really—if I find enough funding, and open up a Beijing Opera Museum here.

02:27:27.900 - 02:27:46.150

[SC: Wow.] Just–just to—well, actually, I have a very good personal depot, and I bought my mom the house. There–there are four bedrooms, and the three of them are storage, actually, just for all the costumes, and all

02:27:50.450 - 02:28:09.740

the instruments, and all the stage settings, audio equipment, all these things. I think at a certain point, I'll try to find a–find a more formal place to–to demonstrate or exhibit.

02:28:11.080 - 02:28:30.700

Well, I don't know, whoever might be interested that–that is–that is good feedback to my—to part of myself that I have the passion for. I heard a story of you purchase a bunch of—use your

02:28:30.800 - 02:28:45.260

own funding, purchase [AY: Yeah.] these costumes (?). Can you tell me a little bit about that? Uh, yes. I think there's a—yeah, I think back in 2016, and

02:28:48.120 - 02:29:09.920

I—well, now costume is part of—and costume and the system of costume are–let’s—little bit more complicated. It's a–it's a–it’s a–it’s a different settings for different characters, the costume requirement, as

02:29:09.920 - 02:29:25.500

well as the–the facial decoration, and the visual presentation, particularly for female characters. Those are very complicated system—involve

02:29:28.100 - 02:29:45.070

a jewelry decorations, and helmets, and headwearings, and it's either made of silver, or gold, or real diamonds, in a lot of cases. Real precious stones, sometimes.

02:29:45.270 - 02:30:03.220

And so those things are very traditional art craft skills that are–are being lost back in China. So maintain those is–is—it’s like a maintain paintings,

02:30:04.980 - 02:30:20.520

or historical paintings, or artistic pieces. It's the same thing. And somebody's got to retain it, and somebody had to collect it. And I'm kind of gradually grown into that. I said, “Well, now I'm financially more capable.

02:30:22.410 - 02:30:42.500

If I want to collect anything, I'm not going to collect a 1970s Ford truck [laughs] or something, I'll probably spend the same amount of money to, to collect a set.” I may one day go back to mainland to shop for—or

02:30:44.900 - 02:31:05.720

treasure hunt in the market for those kinds of things. Those are if–if—yeah, this is—those are some of the goals that I have in my mind and keep spending time on to–to do, and those, well, just—I think, all in all,

02:31:05.720 - 02:31:21.050

it’s my lifetime to leave some trace of this particular–this unique art form here on this land. It's okay. I mean, it's something done—something—who cares? My kids probably don't care.

02:31:21.080 - 02:31:36.050

But if I–if I can sell the museum one day, or with the help of a group of people, and that’ll be great. Feel good, and… Yeah. Okay.

02:31:36.980 - 02:31:53.990

Um, do you have any else you want to add? No, I'm good. I mean, I'm–I’m–I’m a little talkative, and when I talk about myself [laughs]. No, no, no, no. Take up a lot of your time, it’s 9 pm.

02:31:54.670 - 02:32:09.090

[AY: Yeah.] It’s–It’s—you had a long day, so thank you so much [AY: No problem.] for getting time. [AY: It’s my pleasure.] And yeah, so, I–I think we're good for today, and you need more, maybe we'll come back to meet you here.

02:32:09.090 - 02:32:26.220

Yeah. All the time, Professor Chen, and it's–it's my pleasure, really. It’s my–appreciate it that you gave me this time, and–and give me this channel at least, and let me speak out, and to show our club, and tell—show this culture piece.

02:32:26.480 - 02:32:30.040

That's great. Feel good. Thanks. Thank you.