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Today is February 28th, 2020. And we're in Fen Library interviewing Miss Susan Jin. My name is Anti D and my name is Sarah Kong. OK. So now we shall begin the interview. So the first question is where and when were you born? Good morning, good afternoon.

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I was born in a city called Tajan in South Korea uh which is the fourth largest city in 1961. And so how would you describe the household that you grew up in? Very happy, loving to parents? Um I don't have that much memory of the earlier

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years, but I just remember being loved and how about the neighborhood you grew up in? What is your um memory about it? Well, you know, the 1st 10 years I was in Korea. So it's Korean neighborhood. Yeah. Um And after that, it was in Philadelphia. And

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how about um your parents occupation? How did it shape your childhood experience overall? Do you define childhood as like less than 10 or less than 20 any part? Yeah. So my father was a medical doctor and my mother was actually um a pharmacist and uh uh

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she was in the media in Korea back then being a radio broadcasting was a big deal because there wasn't TV, you know, um, but the Korean War broke out so she couldn't do that anymore. But, um, I think the fact that my dad was a medical

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doctor and he, um, worked so hard after coming here, like, having two jobs and different shifts that I grew up thinking that it was normal to, to work that hard. Like, we never even took vacations. I didn't know people took vacations, you know, but I think

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it shaped my values of, of working hard. And so what were some of the values that your parents emphasized on in your growing up? So, along those lines, um my parents used, always used to say in Korean, like, try your best. It's a very Asian thing,

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isn't it? So, um it's like an example is um I was fourth grade and you can probably relate to some of it's like if you got an 89 or 92 and they'll say, did you try your best? And if I said yes, I did, they're like,

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OK with it. And if I say, well, I goofed off and they're like, well, next time, try harder, you know. So it wasn't so much a numerical number, but like, did you give your personal best and whether that's academics, whether that's in sports and now in

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my life as an adult, you know, like, am I giving my all my effort. But I think those values are common. And so now we will talk more about your immigration. And so how old were you when you immigrated to the US? So I was nine.

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I have three siblings, so it was nine. My brother was 85. My sister was one and my parents were in uh about age 39 to 40. So pretty late in their career. And so why did your family immigrate to the US? Well, um do you know,

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do you guys know of the 1965 Immigration and National Act? So that act, um it's also known as Hart and Seller Act because it was proposed by Senator Hart and a um congressman uh emmanuel Seller. And prior to that act, the Immigration History in the United

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States was um and how do I say this correctly? Uh If there were 10% of Italian Americans living here already, then only 10% of the whole uh uh uh the visas would be given to people from Italy. In other words, they wanted the immigrants to reflect

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the current ethnicity of Americans prior to it. So it was a favored towards Europeans because that's who were here, right? And then um after the uh 65 Immigration Act uh by Johnson, the whole tapestry changed on who, what kind of people are now allowed to immigrate

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to the United States and it was no longer based on pure ethnicity. But, um, now it was, well, what kind of profession do you have? And, um, uh, I remember, um, uh, my dad telling us that in the United States at the time, there were a

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shortage of 10 different type of professions. And top of the list were medical doctors and nurses and it went down till um, number 10 was auto mechanics. So, uh my father's medical school classmate, all of a sudden back in like late sixties, uh were given these

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immigration, you know, visa saying if you want to move to the United States, you can. And usually the wait is very long, but it happened like that a matter of two years. So my dad asked my mom, like, do you want to go? And she's like,

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well, actually my dad was very comfortable. He had his own um private hospital and we were doing fine. But I think it was my mother who wanted to come. So later on, I found out that half of my father's medical school classmates were given this US

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visa. And so they all moved here at that time. Yeah. So do you have any idea why your mom want your family to move here? Yeah. Good question, I think um while they were uh happy and, and, and sort of financially secure in Korea, remember this

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was the late sixties, early seventies and after the Korean War, it's been about 15 years, the, the uh relationship with North Korea you know, we, they were like, daily spies coming down. And I remember in kindergarten we had this textbook how to recognize spies, you know,

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um, in a cartoon way. And it's ridiculous. But like they would say things like, um, if someone is listening to a transistor radio at midnight, like that's sort of unusual behavior. Or if someone asks you where the grocery store is, that person may be a spy.

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I mean, it's ridiculous, but that means a person is not from your town. So there was political instability in South Korea and, you know, people didn't know if this was gonna last forever. So I think like everybody else you want, you think about your Children and,

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and back then, you know, us, 65 th those were good years in the United States. So, and so do you recall if you had, if you, if you or your family had a hard time adjusting to living in America? Well, the adjustment was very different for

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every member of our family. My dad spoke English. Um He did his medical residency in uh Flushing New York and in Hawaii. And so somehow I don't know how he gained proficiency in English, but he spoke well enough to practice here, practice medicine. My mother probably

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had the hardest time because like she didn't work outside of home. She had us and she's in the house, you know, trying to figure things out and we were little like I was nine, my brother was eight as I was telling you five and one. So

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we were just like thrown in school and, um, I don't know if you have other questions related to it, but I actually didn't speak a word of English. So imagine like nine year old, I'm in the playground in fourth grade and, you know, you just smile

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a lot and just use your hands and, you know, but as a kid, like the first six months, I had no idea what they were saying, but I still have very happy memories and I can tell you some examples of that. And so yeah, and so

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what were some of the memories that you have? You're a good interviewer. She kind of tags on to that. Um I remember uh I was probably the only one who went through kindergarten, 1st, 2nd, 3rd, 4th grade and one year because I'm in fourth grade, I

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obviously cannot speak English. And so I was in Philadelphia a school system and, and they had um I guess enough money in their budget. They, well, first, no, they said let's send her to kindergarten so she can learn the alphabet. So I remember sitting in like

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kindergarten chairs with kindergartners learning the alphabet. And I didn't, you know, I thought that was fun, but I was there for about a month, literally learning how to read in English. You know, I'm sure these kids were like, why is that girl, she's dumb or something.

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Um Then I remember like actually moving to first grade for a few months, second grade. Meanwhile, all during this whole transition, I was in fourth grade and I was doing math with my fourth grade classmates and I remember like tutoring them because we were way ahead

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in Korea, like fourth grade. I don't know what I was doing beyond multiplication, beyond division, algebra back then. And they were like, just learning, you know, multi of something. So I just remember like showing them how to do things, you know, I am, I can't even

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speak. Right. And so that was interesting. And then, um probably my most memorable moment was um you know, when you're new to a school, especially to another land, like, you know, you're scared, you don't know what, you don't know anything. You don't even understand what the

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teacher is saying. And um the classroom bell would ring and then everyone would like scatter and I had no idea where they went. So I'm just kind of roaming the halls trying to figure out like what's next and they would all go to assembly and assembly

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was like in the middle of the day, which is weird. Right? So then I would go and then on the last one there. So in this big auditorium, like I don't have anywhere to sit. Like, so, you know, you're kind of looking stupid anyway. And there

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was this young boy his name was Abraham. He always saved a seat for me in fourth grade. And so I just remember, like, I'm late because I didn't know where they were going and he would say, or at lunch, he would bring a toy clock that

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has like, you know, the hands and he would say, ok, what is, what is this? And I would say one o'clock he's like, good and then he would go, what is that? And I didn't know how to say quarter of or you know, and he would

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teach me how to do these things, right? So I have very fond memories of this young boy and he told me his name was Abraham Lincoln. And I believe him. And to this day, I know his first name was Abraham, but I don't know what his

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last name was and I would love to look him up, but I don't know what his last name is. Abraham could one day be listening to this interview and Abraham if you're listening, if you ever hear this, you are my hero from back then. But he

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has made my simulation process so warm and and so um much just welcoming. And I remember I gave actually this talk, but it was more elaborately to ST John's school, elementary and middle school and that was middle school. And I talked about how difficult it was

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in the beginning to transition because like for six months, I would have to go to the bathroom. So I raised my hand and the teacher would pick on me. And I'm like, I didn't know how to say, can I go to bed? Like I would just

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raise my hand but nothing would come out, you know, or like, he would say something, maybe it was math problem and I would, I knew the answer and like, I don't know why I raised my hand because I don't know how to answer. But he would

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say, OK, and then nothing would come out. It's very frustrating. And so do you, do you remember, do you had any culture shock? Uh Well, yeah, because even though uh oh my best memory was um you know, in Korea, we didn't have these like supermarkets back

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then where um I was told that you can buy chicken in different parts. Um You have to buy a whole chicken but like they have legs and so we would go look for chicken like all wrapped up with the, I thought that was very cool. Or

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um we had like American M and MS from the army people in, in Korea and they were just so good, but I heard you can buy them in the grocery. I mean, like going to the grocery store was probably the biggest um highlight of my week.

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I, I still remember um you know, my parents took all four kids and we would do, we would probably go down every aisle looking at things that was fun. Um Culture shock. Yeah, like kids would tease you and they would say things like, um tell me

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if they ever, if this is common now, maybe more than they would say things like Chinese, Japanese. I don't know why Japanese eyes go down dirty knees and then no one had any breasts. They would go look at these, you know, and that was one of

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the teasing things and I thought like, even as a kid, it just didn't sound right. Or my last name was Cho Cho. So they would say Purina cat chow. Purina is a brand of a cat food and it was very popular on advert, you know. So

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they would say they would actually like a Purina cat. Chow, chow, chow chow, they would do these movements chow, meaning like they pronounce my name chou as chow. So they were making fun of that, you know, like things like that. I mean, it's harmless now, but

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back then, like, you know, I didn't know what that meant. Yeah. So how long would you say that it took you to completely familiarize yourself with? Right. So I don't know what the normal process is. But for, for um first six months, like my years needed

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time to open meaning I would come home and I say, yeah, they just all go like these Americans, they talk like the way we would think like a Chinese person would talk in China, like I could not make out a word. You know, the first six

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months was just, I don't even know how I adjusted. I just played. Um but I would say it took about two years for my brain to hear the words process it somehow and then have something to say back. Like the whole transition took about two years.

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You know, what was the most interesting thing though? I came in fourth grade in fifth grade, United States decided to desegregate schools. And so they had this thing called bussing. What that means is you take you bust all white kids from suburbia. Well, it wasn't, we

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were North Philadelphia inside from all white neighborhood and then you would bus them to all black neighborhood and you would take black kids from all black neighborhood and you would bust them to all white neighborhood. And that um uh transfer took like an hour. So my

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parents would get these letters from the school, like telling them what, you know, what we have to do, what the legislation said we have to do and like they didn't know what it meant. So like I'm looking up every word in the dictionary, writing it in

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Korean and trying to figure out what it means. And I would like it literally translate each one and tell my parents and I remember doing that with all the memorandum from school. Like it took, I would say, I wish they would just stop sending stuff because

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I have more homework to do that night. You know. So I literally, I remember like our dictionary was so worn out because we would be looking up everywhere. Ok. What does that mean? What does that mean? I remember doing that. I mean, um so were you

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sent to a school in a different district? Yeah. So we were bussed the entire fifth grade, one class. Ok. I grew, I went to school in this, like, Italian Polish white neighborhood in northeast Philadelphia. And our entire class of 3040 kids got on the public's bus,

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you know, and we went to, uh, downtown. I don't even know where it was but it took like 50 minutes to get there. One way we would go to that school. Our teacher was African American. I thought back then it was also really cool. And then

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you could, obviously the entire school was African American. But the weird thing was we just played with the same group of kids who came from. There was no, like, inter mingling. So what was the point of all that? They, everyone together. But this whole school classroom

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went in here, here's a big group. We didn't really like, there wasn't any, you know, we didn't sit together at lunch, we didn't do anything, interact with them and then we came home so, like, wasted two hours a day and the parents were all upset that

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I remember that. Yeah. Ok. So now we've moved into your higher education. So, what college did you attend? Um, so I applied, uh, to go to Smith College and I was there for the first two years. Oh, wait, we need to go back to my high

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school that like, kind of shows immigration history. So high school. Well, let me go back to middle school because it really is all relevant. So, middle school, I entered a contest in seventh grade and like, I, I was just barely learning how to write, you know,

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I mean, uh I miss all the nursery rhymes and all the grammar that you all learned, you know, in elementary school, right? And they said we're having this as a contest on what it means to. Why did let me think something about freedom, like what freedom

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means to you and the kids, they just, you know, whatever. But like to me, like freedom meant everything because I wrote how like in Korea, we would never ever say anything bad about the government because if you did, like, you might disappear in the middle of

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the night, like there was no freedom of speech, you know, and I kind of grew up with that. So my parents says you can grow up and be a doctor or lawyer or whatever you want, but don't go into politics because then like, there's just too

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much dirtiness in it, you know. Um So I wrote about this, like the freedom of speech and what that meant to me that I can actually, um, uh, give constructive comments and my opinion about the president or, you know, I got first place I still remember.

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I said, wow, clearly my grammar, you know, wasn't there but the substance must be right. So that gave me confidence that, wow, it's good to express yourself. And then in high school, like, so then high school, um, I had tried out for cheerleading ninth grade because

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that was the cool thing to do. And my friends then said we thought you couldn't talk, like in middle school, you didn't say anything. You were so shy. Well, it was because like, I was trying to process what you were trying to say and I had

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no, you know, it wasn't because I was shy. But when you throw a kid into an environment, like they don't know what to say. And so it now, like, I have great empathy for people who are from other country, whatever ages they are. If they don't

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speak, it's not because they're shy or dumb or anything like that. It's just because the language barrier, you know, so I remember, I don't know why. I still remember that they kept saying we thought you were shy, you know. Um And um, yeah, and then this

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thing about working hard, like, I mean, you all probably studied so hard otherwise you wouldn't be here, right? You know, but there's that Asian um, values of just giving it your best. And, and, and so that, that, um, carried on with us. But I think my

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brothers and I had a particular appreciation for our parents of what they gave up because they really did give up a lot. They gave up, they gave up their entire social network to come here. My mom didn't speak a word of English. I mean, she was

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frightened half the time, you know, someone would ring the doorbell and she's like, I'm not answering the door mall, you know. Um, one time of not my mother, but her friend told me that when the doorbell rang and her mother, um, somebody came and like they

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were delivering dry cleaning. Um, and her mother was saying they just give up free clothing in this country. She had no idea they were delivering, you know, so, like stuff like that. Very minor. But so in high school, my siblings and I, we, we worked really

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hard. Um, probably harder than like average American kids at the time. Yeah. But you relate. Ok. So college and so I, I, if I remember correctly, Smith is like a girls school, is it women's big deal? You know, that professor, we just ran into, her name

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is Nicky. He, she's in psychology. She went to Smith. It's like Wellesley Smith. So, how was your experience? It was fantastic. It was like, I remember thinking like the first week, like, oh my gosh, these women were so smart and like, so together and so vocal

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and they had opinions and like, they were just such a, you know, like when you think of Amazon woman, like they have the fitness but they have the brain and then they have like, until everything I said, how did I get in? Like these, these girls

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were so together but they were also very like, how would I, what's the right empowered? I mean, the sky was the limit. And I just remember feeling, wow, like it was so cool to be in that environment. So that was fun. And then we had professors

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um uh who, well, no, no, let me tell it this way. So junior year, I went to University of Pennsylvania as a guest student, visiting student because Smith is all women. So by junior you like had to get out all of us. Like five of my

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best friends, you know, everybody kind of went to like junior year abroad in Paris and Spain and these wonderful places and my best friends, we all went to like one went to Pomona, one went to UCLA. I went to U Penn like because we just had

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to get out, you know. Um but the thing that I hit me was I was taking calculus three at the time, there were 50 in my U Penn class and like two women and the professor never called on us. And I mean, I raised my hand

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and I just remember feeling like I didn't have a voice here as I did at Smith where Smith, like you forget your gender because it's sort of like genderless community. Wow. I just made that up, you know, because you just are there and, and, and your

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expected sky is the limit whatever, you know. But at Penn also, it was like, we had to kind of like go out of our way to raise our hand, but we weren't called on. I just remember that like the women overall, women students were quieter in

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a co ed institution. I mean, you're a co ed institution. Is that how is it like it here? Um I think it depends on the class and what major in some departments, maybe engineering that could be more seen really even now. I probably in a subtle

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way, but I'm not sure, but I bet it's, this is 3040 years ago. So I just remember and then like in a co ed environment, there's a lot of dynamics of, you know, like Smith, we would be in her pajamas and go to class like, I

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don't care how my hair looked like, but at Pen, I remember like girls like putting makeup on to go to class and I thought that was a little different because I wasn't used to that, but I did like the, the urban setting. So anyway, II I

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transferred to U Penn at second year to graduate there. Oh, so you actually stayed there for the rest of your? Yeah. Yeah. Partly because, um, after that initial shock of being there, um, I found myself really thriving at UPENN. Like I was, um, taking classes at

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Wharton. I had this very interesting job at Wharton Business School. I, I, there was something about that environment that really was, you know, it was good for me. Yeah. Yeah. And so is there any reason why you chose U Penn at the first place? Because you

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mentioned your friend actually you went to Paris or UCL A? Yeah, because I'm from Philadelphia and I've always wanted to go to U Penn. You know, you didn't wanna like get out of the state. No, no, no, no, no, I didn't really have, I wasn't taking

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a foreign language. Oh, I did study Japanese for two years but I wasn't um studying a foreign language to be like fluent and implied, you know, so the next best thing with you. And so um and so what, what subjects were you uh majoring in? So

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I did economics, I took a lot of math uh um languages. It was truly a liberal arts education. And so what influenced you to choose uh to choose your major? Oh Economics is such a cool subject because it really teaches you how to think like, I

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mean, as trite as it sounds, when they say critical thinking, it can really helps you to do that. And I like that. Like, I like Macro policy, the Federal Reserve. We know how their policies shape. Um, I don't know those things turn me on. And so

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at that point, what, what did you imagine yourself doing with? Good question. Yeah. Um, well, at, at Smith, they had this wonderful thing called January, uh, winter term for a whole month. There's no school and you can, like, go to Wall Street and, and shadow people.

00:28:02.739 - 00:28:17.550

You can one time I taught a class at Smith on Korean language and then took like um wine tasting and all these other fun stuff, you know. But so you have a month, I think Dartmouth has this too. You have a significant chunk of time to

00:28:17.560 - 00:28:32.770

go out in the industry and just, and the alums from your school, they, they welcome you. Um And so I thought I would go to New York and I don't know, work for investment bank because that's where all the jobs were and being an econ major.

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And so at U Penn when I was graduating, I guess my resume was interesting because I came from a women's school and then here and so the banks really liked me and I kind of figured out how to interview well, like it became an art, like

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I got really good at it. So then I was getting a lot of job offers and I probably would have gone to one of the banks. But I got this very cool offer from a company called SmithKline at the time called French. Now they're GlaxoSmithKline, they're

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pharmaceutical. And they had this thing called management access training program. It's a two year program where you get six months in like finance um production, marketing, human resources. They pay you. I'm just learning for two years and I go around the globe, all expenses paid. I

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went to Belgium for nine months and they gave me a car, a peugeot, a flat and I got to work on a team that launched a genetically engineered vaccine. I was like the American on the team, you know, but so it was so I, I did

00:29:53.079 - 00:30:14.319

that and just like the whole world opened up to me. But, you know, I don't know where your question is somewhere down the line. But even then when you, now I look back like discrimination, I didn't think I was experiencing it. But now looking back, I,

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what I did was um can I tell you a story about that? So after this two years then, like we get place in one of the rotations. So I got place in market research department. Um and I had to do a lot of research on like

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what's the market potential of Coronavirus? You know what I mean? Like you, so I had to go to the library that has all these books and I'm looking things up and I'm writing reports and all these things. And I made friends with this librarian who must

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have been like 80 years old, he's been there forever. And after a while, he said to me, um, and I can't quite remember in what context. But he wanted to give me career advice and he kind of pulled me aside and he says, you know, I,

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I wanna tell you this because I, I like you. But I want you to know that uh this is how you need to carry yourself in the corporate world. First you come across as an Asian young girl. You can't do that. Like, and I was like,

00:31:30.989 - 00:31:47.020

I was so shocked I go, it didn't occur to me like I was like you guys, right? I was 22 right? It didn't occur to me that in corporate America when people looked at me, they first looked at me as a young Asian. He didn't even

00:31:47.030 - 00:32:09.130

say women girl and, and all the prejudice that follow it and then they might listen to what you have to say. And I was just like, I, I couldn't process that. I said, what does that mean? Like I know why he told me that because his

00:32:09.140 - 00:32:19.430

heart was, he was something happened. There must have been in some conflict and then at the end he's like, ok, I'll just take her under my wing and let me help her. So he was trying to like groom me, you know, make sure I do well

00:32:19.439 - 00:32:32.099

in life. But he said that's how you're going to be viewed. So therefore, like, you need to talk this way, you need to walk this way, you need to dress this way. You need to be this way. I was like, and it came from someone who,

00:32:32.349 - 00:32:47.209

you know, who have, he doesn't have a vested interest in me, you know, but isn't that interesting? And that opened my eyes and that's when I changed my name from Susie to Susan, that was the first thing because I was like, I used to be called

00:32:47.219 - 00:33:04.510

Sue Susie or whatever. I didn't care. It meant nothing to me. Well, I didn't know, like, in the boardroom you don't really want to be called Susie. Susan is a lot better, for example, you know, or like a lot of, um, families name their girls like

00:33:04.520 - 00:33:20.189

Mackenzie or, or some very strong name that has Unisex. It can go either way. Yeah, not too feminine. It could go on like Mackenzie. Is that her first name or last name? But like, you know what I mean? That's a boy or girl, you know, you

00:33:20.199 - 00:33:32.939

don't know, but people do that for that purpose so that their daughters will. And so that's what this guy was telling me that, ok, you need to change your name from Susie to Susan. You need to dress this way. You need to walk this way, you

00:33:32.949 - 00:33:50.729

need to talk this way. I mean, like, oh, my goodness. But thank goodness. Huh? I mean, I'm grateful to him, whatever his name was, you know, another Abraham. Right. Abraham. And so, besides that, thinking back to your college career, were there some, uh, defining moments that

00:33:50.739 - 00:34:24.659

you had, um, well, a, my sophomore summer after Smith, I had applied for this, um, fellowship to be the representative of Smith College to what's known as Japan American student conference because I was taking Japanese language. It's a three week program with the purpose of promoting

00:34:24.669 - 00:34:42.289

mutual understanding between Japan and us. And that was after the result of World War Two, right? They, they need to do some peace bridge building. And um every other year, like one year will be held in the US next year, be in Japan. And but about

00:34:42.299 - 00:35:05.800

40 American delegates representing each college and 40 Japanese delegates representing their universities come together and would have debates and discussions and brainstorming ideas and just really like students to students from another country. Um I mean, we would sit around and, and I chose a topic of,

00:35:05.810 - 00:35:24.489

I think women, the role of women. That was the the group that I was assigned to. And we talked about it like in a very serious way, like we're here to solve world's problems. And I remember um a me really enjoying it and just love the

00:35:24.500 - 00:35:42.620

Japanese counterparts that we um met. But as soon as they, they would say, well, where are you from? Like because they were all American white or African American. But I was like the only Ame Asian and then they're Japanese students. So like, they didn't know they

00:35:42.629 - 00:36:02.030

were curious about me. So like, where are you from? And cho, what is that like? And when I said Korean, they would go like I could feel this energy of them stepping back and trying to figure out wait Korean. But is she American? Is she Korean?

00:36:02.040 - 00:36:16.959

Is she Korean American? Is she like, did she grow up? Was she born in the US? Like they couldn't place me? I could see there's all like calculation going on in their head and then like their reaction would be a little bit different. Is that interesting?

00:36:17.379 - 00:36:47.270

And so one candidate or delegate, I became very good friends with like just friends. And at the end of that conference, um I decided to give a speech and I said that how privileged we are to be here in the safe setting to talk about uh

00:36:47.379 - 00:37:14.330

how to promote harmony and peace between Japan and us because a lot of these kids end up becoming ambassadors. I later on found out. But I said, what is the point of all this conversation if we can't begin to undo the prejudices that we have um

00:37:15.239 - 00:37:30.699

uh already developed in our heads? And I talked about the Korean and the Japanese and how, you know, you guys met me and you guys were trying to figure me out, place me and you know, when you found that I was Korean or ethnic background, like,

00:37:30.959 - 00:37:48.199

so I talked about that and I said all this great stuff that we've discussed, it is our duty and responsibility to take that forward once we leave and to, to change the world, you know, and the, the delegates that were most impacted by my talk were

00:37:48.209 - 00:38:01.189

the Japanese kids, American kids were like, oh, that's cool. But these kids must have been really touched because one of the delegates came back to me afterwards and he said his name is Tat Chan. He goes, wow, that he says, I never thought of it that

00:38:01.199 - 00:38:24.820

way. You, you've made me think so moving forward. About five years later, he and I were pen pals and we were writing and so he invites me to Japan and he said during his presentation, he says, I, after Japan American Congress came here, he created a

00:38:24.830 - 00:38:43.439

Japan Korea student conference and he said, the person that I would like to honor this was me because he remembered the conversation we had. And to this day, I was so touched by that, you know, that as students, you know, because students are still very pure

00:38:43.449 - 00:38:58.939

in their minds and they're willing to, to, you know, take in all these new ideas, right? So that, that was one thing I still remember. And so now we've moved into talking about your career. Um And so we learned that you went back to business school

00:38:58.949 - 00:39:23.709

for like, um higher education. And why did you decide to do that? Well? Ok. So I worked the Smith Kline for four years. I did the management program and then I um uh helped develop the market research for their bioscience laboratories. And um because I was

00:39:23.719 - 00:39:46.699

liberal arts major, like, meaning econ and math and languages and arts, our history, like, I didn't have any business um background like finance or accounting or um I didn't know how to read a financial statement, you know, I didn't know these assets, liabilities, owners, equity. I

00:39:46.709 - 00:40:03.540

had no idea what that meant. Like owners who like, what does that mean? You know? And so, um I wanted to go back for some more graduate school training and it seemed like business school was the best path to do that. And so can you tell

00:40:03.550 - 00:40:23.120

us about what you did after business school? Sure. So after business school, well, so just like law school, the job after first year you get this internship and it works out well, they hire you back. So I can I tell you about that. So I, um

00:40:23.709 - 00:40:48.510

uh I remember interviewing, well, so at Yale School of Management, the interview was very like, um uh computer generated like random meaning like, um, give me a minute, let me pause. I, I need to say this accurately because it's different. Now. I'm sure um there are

00:40:48.520 - 00:41:06.250

these lists of companies that come and you choose which one you want to interview with, but sometimes you just don't get all the interviews, you know, because that's what I mean, random, they just assign me. And then, um, so I, I randomly got assigned to a

00:41:06.260 - 00:41:29.260

company called Microsoft. And back then nobody knew what Microsoft was or is or about to be. And I remember interviewing, um, the first went, went really well. And so they flew me up to Seattle and I had a whole day of interview and I still remember

00:41:29.370 - 00:41:42.560

the, the first guy, great guy and we're talking about my resume and all the market research I've done and, and he goes, wait, but you were in the pharmaceutical industry. Like what, what makes you think that you can do computers? You know, there is a different

00:41:42.570 - 00:41:56.780

industry. And I, and I remember like, uh coming up with a real jazzy answer like you are absolutely right. But I knew nothing about the pharmaceutical industry and I went in there because I'm a fast learner and I could just, you know, pick it up real

00:41:56.790 - 00:42:16.540

fast. I just gave him some answer like, and he goes, oh, ok. All right. I, I believe you can learn this. Right. Right. But there are some things that he asked me that wasn't on my resume that I shared with him something personal. And then after

00:42:16.550 - 00:42:36.689

that interview, I went to the next interview and that guy was asking me questions about things that I told the first guy, but it wasn't on my resume. And I'm thinking, how did he know that? Like, how did he know I did XYZ like there was

00:42:36.699 - 00:42:54.590

no way on our, well, at the end of the day I figured out this was 19 89. This is like when mcintosh, this big thing was coming at you, they had internal email, nobody the whole public. We didn't have any email back then. But they were

00:42:54.600 - 00:43:12.479

like doing this with each other like check, check her out on this thing, ask her these questions. That was a big deal back then. You have to go back to 1989. Ok? When were you born? 2001? And I was like, sh like I was shocked, I

00:43:12.489 - 00:43:28.229

said, wow, these guys are really with it. And I, I, so anyway, and then my lunch interview was this woman named Melinda French and she was this young whippersnapper. She was even younger than me. I was 27. She was 25 and she was just same thing,

00:43:28.239 - 00:43:44.500

white farmers to go in the street. But she was telling me that she went to Duke and she did this program five year program, Duke undergrad and took um MB A and anyway, I just remember her being really just smart. A couple of years later she

00:43:44.510 - 00:44:03.780

becomes Melinda Gates from Melinda French. Isn't that cool? So anyway, um, I end up not taking the job. I should have taken Microsoft's job because my Children go mom, you would have been like a millionaire by now, you know. Well, you have that cool on your

00:44:03.790 - 00:44:18.000

resume that you turned down. I turned out Microsoft. Uh, but instead I worked for a Mandarin consulting job in New York City because I've always wanted to do management consulting. That was just sort of, I was like the president of Mandarin consulting club at my business

00:44:18.010 - 00:44:39.250

school, you know. Anyway, so I did that. But, um, yeah, anyway, that was a fun story. But I did some management consulting after business school. And then, um, uh, right after graduating, my husband proposed what my, my current husband back then we were just, you know,

00:44:39.260 - 00:44:54.719

friends. Uh, so we got married and then I moved to L A because that's where he was and I was about to look for a full time job. Right. And then he gets recruited to this hospital at the Texas Medical Center called back then it was

00:44:54.729 - 00:45:15.070

called Saint Luke's at Fiscal Hospital. And so I came, you know, um, uh, and now they're called CH I, and they changed name but, um, they recruited him, um, to be the, um, uh, uh, the president of the hospital and then he became CEO of the

00:45:15.080 - 00:45:36.300

hospital. So it was a very nice job for him. Yeah. Um, and, um, and I then got a job working for a start up gene. It's called Gene Medicine Gene Therapy Company. Um, um, and then I had three Children in the next decade after that. So,

00:45:36.800 - 00:45:54.330

um, I became a full time mom when our second son was born and really got involved with, like, all their child rearing stuff. Like I was room mom. I was, I did everything, you know, very heavily involved with their school program and I'm very glad I

00:45:54.340 - 00:46:11.449

did. And so how was your transition to Houston? Because you were in the east coast and then you flew to L A? Yeah. Well, so here was the transition. L A. We lived on the beach, long Beach looking at Queen Mary and like his high rise

00:46:11.459 - 00:46:25.729

that, that he was living at was like literally on the beach and people would be jogging and I imagine like beach beautiful, you know, blue waters. We come here and, and we're like, let's go to Galveston. So we drive to Galveston and Michael says, why is

00:46:25.739 - 00:46:41.735

the Water Brown? I don't know why are people like driving on the beach? I don't know. This is really weird, you know, that was our transition. And so yeah, we, we also knew about your involvement with the Korean Festival and the T Ball. And so could

00:46:41.745 - 00:47:03.560

you tell us about that? Oh, sure. So when I, we need to dial back a little bit. So 91 I came here to Houston and then um I had this job with Gene medicine, the, the gene therapy company. Um and as the, the bus uh assistant

00:47:03.570 - 00:47:22.689

Business Direct uh development director to take technology to the market, you know, and then somehow I don't know how to this day Nancy Halls, who was the executive director of Asia Society back then in 93 found me and says, um I heard you're Korean and we

00:47:22.699 - 00:47:42.760

have this event for a whole year where they Korean government is sponsoring and Asia Society is sponsoring and we have these like performing groups are coming and all these resources and we need someone to manage that whole process. So at first I joined as a volunteer

00:47:42.770 - 00:48:00.060

and then I quickly became paid because it was like a full time job. Um And then next thing I know I'm raising money to run, you know, do this thing. And that's when um uh uh Eddie Allen, who's the current uh chair of a study, his

00:48:00.070 - 00:48:17.340

wife Chin, he, they had just got married as well and then their mother-in-law Nancy. So Nancy Chen and I, we were doing fund raising money for this Korea Festival. But what, what it entailed was a whole year of uh how do we introduce Korean culture to

00:48:17.350 - 00:48:52.750

United States? And so um let me see. And um so I had, with the Asia Society arranged um education in classrooms. I remember going to like public libraries, uh some, some business lecture forms. We had these fantastic performing groups that will come. And we uh we

00:48:52.760 - 00:49:10.979

set them up at Colon Theater. Uh we and theater column. So I did this for about a year and probably the funnest part was, it was my job to um uh mobilized volunteers from the Korean community. So we had about 300 volunteers that I recruited. And

00:49:10.989 - 00:49:22.870

in the beginning, like nobody knew me, I didn't know them. I didn't know who was in the community. So I didn't know how to do this. And I wrote a handwrit letter to one of the leaders in the Korean community. And he was so impressed that

00:49:22.879 - 00:49:40.129

I wrote him a handwrit letter that he goes, OK, I'll, I'll help you. And he introduced me to all these uh community leaders. Well, the best way and the only way to, to recruit volunteer was to go to these ethnic Korean churches. And I was giving

00:49:40.629 - 00:49:54.020

talks. I went to Korean Catholic Church and during their mass, I went up on stage and I'm talking about my patriotism and why I want to do this and why I think you should help me and why this is good for the country. And at the

00:49:54.030 - 00:50:12.399

end, like all these people lined up to volunteer, it was great. So I was giving speeches all around. I just don't remember that. That um Yeah, so that was for a year. Um And then um many, many years later, maybe 2025 years later um I had

00:50:12.409 - 00:50:31.469

the opportunity to co-chair Tiger Ball for Asia Society because the country that they were celebrating was Korea. So that's a lot of fun. How did you see the community react with um Korean cultural events um like the Tiger Ball that you did and as well with

00:50:31.479 - 00:50:54.520

events like the Hanbok fashion show? Oh, well, I mean, very positively. In fact, um one of the things I didn't get to tell you was I had when we first moved to Houston, um we were invited to tour the Children's Museum of Houston and back then

00:50:54.530 - 00:51:14.149

it was just one room on Allen Park. Are you from Houston? I'm from like in the suburb of Houston. So do you know about the Children's Museum of Houston? Ok. The current building wasn't there. It was literally like one large room off Allen Parkway. And um

00:51:14.169 - 00:51:26.879

I remember getting a tour and they were asking do Michael and I would like to be on the board and Michael's like, well, I got this new job and I were busy. And so how about my wife? So then I was like 30 years old, 29.

00:51:26.889 - 00:51:46.120

And I said, sure. So I got involved with them. But this is to answer your question about that. How did the, um I've been on the board for 30 years? And uh about 56 years ago, they said, you know, we would like to create a culture

00:51:46.129 - 00:52:05.899

exhibit because we have success doing that. And, and we're thinking Philippines or Korea, we're not sure. But like Korea seems to be like very dynamic these days. This was eight years ago because it exhibits five. And so can you like, tell us about Korea? And then,

00:52:05.909 - 00:52:25.399

so I sent him all this stuff and then they proposed it and it was accepted. And so we got almost a million dollar grant from the Friedman Foundation. And then I contacted Samsung Corporation, they underwrote all the technology. And so we created an exhibit for American

00:52:25.409 - 00:52:41.340

Children to learn about Korea. And it's like, what is life like in Korea? For Korean? Uh Yeah, Korean Children. So there was, you know, the whole school system and all the fun things they do the house um K pop stuff. Taekwondo, you name it, you know

00:52:41.350 - 00:53:00.469

how Korean um Children and families um celebrate holidays. So this exhibit took two years to create with designers from New York that I took to Korea. And so when we had an opening and the community came, I think people appreciated it. Yeah. And they, they said,

00:53:00.570 - 00:53:18.909

you know, my, my, I have friends whose Children are adopted from Korea. Can I bring them? So they know that Korea? So, so that's going on and that exhibit toured eight US cities now it's back. So, yeah, I was on TV for all these. Yeah, but

00:53:18.919 - 00:53:35.370

that was because that was one of my uh I think a big contribution, contribution. To the Korean culture in Korea. Yeah. Um How involved are you with like the Korean American community? Like was coming to Houston your first time getting involved with the Korean American community?

00:53:36.030 - 00:54:00.560

No, I have always been involved with the Korean American community uh for example, um when I was um yeah. Oh my goodness at every stage of my life. Looking back in high school, uh do you guys know about the Catholic? Popes? Pope Francis? Are you OK.

00:54:00.649 - 00:54:20.159

So you know Pope Francis, right? So prior to him was Pope Benedict and before him, John Pope John Paul second. So when Pope John Paul was second, I was in high school, uh I was 17 years old and I was very active with the Korean Catholic

00:54:20.169 - 00:54:33.939

church there and I get a call one day that said the Pope is coming to Philadelphia. 2 million people are expected to show up in Logan Square where they're gonna, it's like an outdoor. I don't know if it's like, it's not like Miller the or downtown,

00:54:33.949 - 00:54:54.810

you know, and um they are wanting a representative from every ethnic church but 12 to represent 12 disciples. And and your job is to bring up uh of uh during a procession, you know, like gifts, right? So they wanted someone from Vietnam, someone from Italy, someone

00:54:54.820 - 00:55:09.719

from Poland. And so Korean, we want someone from Korea. So our priest asked me to represent Korea. I'm telling you this because there's a there's a thread. Yeah. So I'm getting in this Korean outfit. I don't even have one. My mom had to ask her uh

00:55:09.729 - 00:55:28.209

sister in Korea to bring me like this Karina. And I remember going up and, and lining up 12 people. There are like millions of viewers, you know, watching this mass, right? This story is funny. So there are three people ahead of me and there's this long

00:55:28.219 - 00:55:42.929

stare like, like, I don't know, very, very, probably hundreds of steps up and Pope is sitting up there with the cardinals and I mean, this is televised around the world, right? And we were told to go up give like I had a basket of fruit or

00:55:42.939 - 00:55:57.580

some bread or fruit or something, give it to him and then kneel and then kiss his ring. If you're Catholic, it's a big deal. Kiss the Pope's ring. I mean, like that's a big deal. So I'm like the fourth person and the three persons ahead of

00:55:57.590 - 00:56:14.419

me, like there was a Polish and Italian person and I don't remember the third one, but um maybe a Vietnamese person, they all gave their gifts, kneel down king and Pope would have a very, like a conversation with him during mass. But because of the intercom,

00:56:14.429 - 00:56:32.830

we could hear it kind of, you know, and he was just, and the thing was he was asking, talking to those people in their native language. Well, he spoke Italian, he speaks Polish and it was their native tongue. So it wasn't English and we were all

00:56:32.840 - 00:56:46.030

like, what's he saying? So, I, I was certain when, when it was my turn he was going to say something to me in Korean because that was what was happening, you know. So I go up and I give my gift, I'm shaking. I kneel that I

00:56:46.040 - 00:57:01.810

kissed the string and the cardinals, like, gave me a present of a rosary blessed by the Pope. Right? Isn't that cool? Yeah, it's a big deal if you have. Um, and then the, I look up and he's about to say something to me and I thought,

00:57:01.969 - 00:57:19.699

oh my God, what's he going to say? Is he going to say something like greeting, you know, Aang Nika or something? So I'm just like holding my breath waiting for him. And he says, are you Chinese? Oh my gosh, I went, oh no. And then he

00:57:19.709 - 00:57:38.040

goes, are you Japanese? And I went, and this is being heard on the intercom because later on the newspapers all wrote up on it and then I was about to scream and says, I'm going to, and then the Cardinals next to him just said, she's Korean

00:57:38.419 - 00:57:53.870

and he goes, oh, you know, like that. Um Yeah. So then I got up and, and then walked down and when I walked down there were like, or like ordinary people and they were saying, do you mind if I touch you? And I thought that was

00:57:53.879 - 00:58:11.840

really strange for a 17 year old girl. But later on people say that, like, if you touch the Pope, like, yeah. Yeah. And I thought, oh, but, um, the next day in a local newspaper I was in a small sub. It's not a suburb town. They

00:58:11.850 - 00:58:32.040

wrote all this up, you know, and this girl from this high school, that was my high school, but it was the theme was Korea, right? Like being a Korean representative. Then I go to Smith and I'm finding myself not only joined the Korean American Student Association,

00:58:32.270 - 00:58:49.479

but like, I'm leading their like play and I'm doing stuff right in the sophomore year. I, I don't know what possessed me. I said I'll teach, they were offering courses like wine tasting and I said I can teach Korean language. So like, OK, and they paid

00:58:49.489 - 00:59:05.719

you too, you know. So I did that and students from like Amherst and U Mass came to, to, to learn Korean. So that was another Korean thing. I come to U Penn and, and I'm getting more involved with a group called World Affairs Council. Do you

00:59:05.729 - 00:59:24.235

know? It's, it's a, well, it's a, it's an organ. It's like the Lions club or um Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. If you google it, they're there. And so one of my professors said, well, so through this world affairs. So they need people to give talks about

00:59:24.245 - 00:59:38.310

Korea at local elementary schools. Like I'm junior in college. So I sign up and I'm giving talks about Korea and I'm making things up as I go. And my mom's like, you're really brave. Do you know what you're talking about? I'm just making things up. I

00:59:38.320 - 00:59:58.429

do that. And then because of that, I get this opportunity to be an interpreter at the negotiation between the president of Johan SmithKline, which is a joint venture of Smith Kline company that like high level CEO and I'm just like this college I show up and

00:59:58.439 - 01:00:12.959

I'm simultaneous interpretation. Do you know how hard that is? Like, they don't give you a script, you know, like he sings and I'm like he said, she said, you know, so I did that and I was like, oh my God, it's not like my Korean. Is

01:00:13.179 - 01:00:26.219

that good? So I did that. And that led to me getting this job at Smith Kline when I interviewed, they told me I told them what I did and I was like, OK, we want you. But there's so many things that like that, that I see

01:00:26.229 - 01:00:43.060

a thread and then I work at Smith Kline and as part of my community service, I um uh somehow got involved with Korean adoptees. Uh There's an organization because they're all yearning to know more about the roots, right? So I'm doing, I'm going to the organization,

01:00:43.070 - 01:01:00.419

I guess I'm talking about Korea and somebody, some TV station came and televised it and it's on Smith Kline company's internal network and my friends are like, wait, didn't you just join this company? What? You know, again, this is Korean theme, right? So every place I

01:01:00.429 - 01:01:18.310

live or work, I seem to be getting involved with Korean related things. Like, because maybe because I'm so passionate about it and now looking back at every stage of my life, there's something that a business school. Um we, oh, I organized a day of seminar on

01:01:18.320 - 01:01:36.489

let's learn about the Korean market. So I got people to talk. One guy did an internship there, he talked about Korean uh economics. Um I talked about Korean language, somebody like, so I organized it, you know, that was interesting, right? For business students. Let's see. And

01:01:36.500 - 01:01:51.610

then I come to Houston and Asian society wants me to do a year long seminar, you know, the own Korea. So and then the ST John where my kids went to school, I'm giving this talk about how hard it was for me to uh adjust to

01:01:51.620 - 01:02:11.840

United States, you know, and I'm organizing all kinds of Korean things at Saint John. So it's been fun. And later in career, you've worked with like the Korean culture as well, right? With your firm that you started. Yeah. So with that Harper Sky, they're like, there's

01:02:11.850 - 01:02:31.820

this performing group in Korea that they want to kind of enter the US market. So again, I got introduced to somebody, somebody. And then next thing I know they're, you know, I'm helping them, um, and it, it leads into bigger, bigger, so I've created venues for

01:02:31.830 - 01:02:51.320

them to perform here and, and then I took them on television and so promote them and I'm writing their promotional literature and I'm going back to Korea, like, I went to Korea four times in, in 2019 for them. So I'm, these consulting projects are coming up

01:02:51.330 - 01:03:16.449

and now with, well, you know, the, the cap right. Uh huh. Uh, who's your favorite K pop group? MC T MC T really? Oh, how come, what do you mean? Yeah, because I just randomly came across them and I really enjoyed the music. Yeah, I mean,

01:03:16.459 - 01:03:31.314

because I regularly keeping update with them so I can see a lot of them coming to the US and having the big tours and, you know, the problem and they make their appearance on the television shows and all that. Yeah. I mean, like BT S is

01:03:31.324 - 01:03:55.179

supposedly coming to Rodeo. I don't know if that was canceled is coming to, they're coming to Rodeo, NTNCTNCT. Are you going? Oh, yeah. How did you get your tickets online? Yeah, online. Oh, wait, is this, what? Tuesday night? Yeah, it's a Tuesday night in March, right?

01:03:56.340 - 01:04:17.709

So, yeah, I was going to go but I didn't get my tickets yet. They still on sale. Yeah. So this group that I'm talking similar, you know, and then let's see, there's something else. What other, what were you gonna, what were you, what other, um, projects

01:04:17.719 - 01:04:43.719

have you worked with your firm? On Korean culture? Yeah. So, um, there's been a lot of like, there's a group in Houston called Dan Salad Alley or Dan Salad and that not for profit. Uh This woman goes around the world selecting, um, uh, dance troupes and

01:04:43.729 - 01:04:57.800

she invites him for a festival here. And so the, I get a phone call from the Korean Consul General's office. Uh This group from Korea is coming, they need someone to interpret. Can you like, help me? So I show up, it turns out to be like,

01:04:57.810 - 01:05:21.909

not a one day but the entire week of, you know, helping them and, and through all these um uh uh involvement, I have developed an understanding of cultural differences um between the mindset of people in Korea and people here. So do you want to hear an

01:05:21.919 - 01:05:44.189

example when uh I took a group of uh children's museum staff and the designers from New York to Korea? And we visited various schools with the idea that we're trying to replicate the schools, you know, and things that kids do. We went to this one school

01:05:44.199 - 01:06:01.949

in elementary school in Korea. They do performing arts with Korean traditional instruments. So it's not like violin and cello, but it's strange, you know, Korean traditional and, and these kids were fabulous and so they're like parading and our designers are like, wow, they're really good. We

01:06:01.959 - 01:06:17.669

need to like get them involved. So when they were talking out of enthusiasm, the American side is what I would call, it would say. Um God, we'd love to have you, you know, visit us. Uh and we love to have you come to us, meaning you

01:06:17.679 - 01:06:39.370

can come and visit us at your own expense, but we will provide the venue. Korea. When news people say we invite you, that means everything is covered. So these guys just from that one conversation, we'd love to have you come, we invite you the American way.

01:06:39.760 - 01:06:55.050

They've been practicing every weekend and they, they started fundraising to raise money to pay for air force to come here. I didn't know this. No one said anything. We just came back, we're doing our thing and I get a phone call from my counterpart who was

01:06:55.060 - 01:07:08.590

helping me and she's like, yeah, I went to visit the school and they were just, they're just eager to, they're raising funds to come. I go, how come? Well, you guys said that they were invited and I said, yeah, I was there and she said, yeah,

01:07:08.600 - 01:07:27.620

you know, if you're ever interested in coming to Korea, come visit. Well, they said you invited them. I said, no, I was there. I guess they might have used the word invite but they meant, oh no, you mean they thought they were invited? Like and my

01:07:27.629 - 01:07:48.250

friend went and I went so then we, we didn't know what to do because now this is not just one person but the entire community. So I told the Children museum people, like, uh I think this is one of those cultural differences where one thing means

01:07:48.260 - 01:08:01.909

the word invite has strong connotation. What do we do? And so they felt so bad. They're like, we don't really have any money to pay for their hotel. Like, well, they're raising funds for their airfare, but they're kind of thinking once they land, then it's all

01:08:01.919 - 01:08:21.569

us. So she's calling around trying to get low. I mean, like everything got escalated and this is real life. This is like not in elementary, you know, this is so that's when I, I learned in my counterpart, we learned that, wow, the word invitation means different

01:08:21.580 - 01:08:42.339

things to different cultures. That's an example of cultural differences. And then going back about the rise of um Korean culture, what do you think about like, what people call it, the Korean wave or how you, I think it's wonderful. I mean, it's Korea is such a

01:08:42.350 - 01:09:03.540

small country uh of 50 million people. And after the Korean War was decimated, nothing, you know, and to, to having to be rebuilt from nothing from rubbles. And now, I mean, in terms of economy. But what is so cool is Korean film? There's something about these

01:09:03.549 - 01:09:25.129

Korean directors, they really understand human psyche, human emotions. Um Before the current parasite and all that stuff. Uh Maybe a decade ago, there were these Korean drama series called like Winter, spring, Summer Fall or something or, and it's, it's like soap operas, you know, it was

01:09:25.140 - 01:09:43.729

popular in Korea, but it started to spread through all of Southeast Asia. Like people from like the lady who do my nails. She's like Vietnamese lady or watch Korean video. And then I met this professor at, at Princeton Econ professor, a big hotshot guy and he

01:09:43.738 - 01:09:57.089

was invited to speak at Saint Louis and my husband was hosting him. And so we, and then we talking and he goes, yeah. So my wife and I, my, he's German. She's Chinese. In the evenings we watch Korean video soap operas that I couldn't get my

01:09:57.100 - 01:10:12.189

head around it. I said you do. He goes, oh, once you watch him, he just so beautiful. How they do it. Romance in Korea is not like this physical stuff. They just touch each other's hands through the glass, you know, and that's romance. He said it

01:10:12.200 - 01:10:29.759

was so beautiful. So there's these directors, you know, so there's Korean film called K Drama or K Pop. The music. That's the last decade with you guys. Well, why do you guys like it so much? Well, actually I was from Vietnam. So it was like a

01:10:29.770 - 01:10:46.259

huge thing there. I was into K pop like 10 years ago. It was so it was such a big thing. Everyone talks about it. What do you like about it? Like it's like it, it's like they are polished, they are like they are selling the perfect

01:10:46.270 - 01:11:00.729

image of it and you can't really get it from the US market. They're like perfect in every shape and every side. Like they can sing, they can dance, they can move and they have the look, they have the concept, they have everything set up and like

01:11:00.799 - 01:11:23.410

it was just so like this perfect men, male species, right? They're so different from the US artists. I think that's why they're very popular because they're very different. But it's still music that everyone can enjoy. But sometimes differences doesn't necessarily make it attractive. We hope that

01:11:23.419 - 01:11:42.700

it would. But um you know, people like things that are familiar to them. So when it's different, it could be seen as foreign and yet that difference is attracting, that's why I don't understand what the kid, maybe it's also part of what is called fan service.

01:11:42.850 - 01:11:57.062

Like in like about Korean idols, they are all about interaction with fans. So you actually feel like they are a part of your life. There are some friends that you actually interact with when the US they were just like, oh how do you interact with? They

01:11:57.073 - 01:12:13.583

have Twitter and they talk to you and they do all kind of fan service about it. They're fan club through Twitter. Someone answers to Twitter and then Instagram and everything like that. My friend who's very into K pop. I think it's a Korean app. Like, people

01:12:13.592 - 01:12:34.806

like the idols, they just live stream themselves. Feels very personal. It's a very personal thing and very casual setting. I think they have to pay a little. Yeah, of course. Yeah. Yeah. But it's like more content. I think they are very creative. They're very smart business

01:12:34.985 - 01:12:52.286

behind. I think the US actually has to learn. They market themselves and their dance moves are amazing the way they're isolating. I was like, how do you do that? You know, they are just like dancers and singers and models and everything within one person. You know,

01:12:52.496 - 01:13:13.359

Koreans have this, this thing where, um, I don't know what the word is in English but it's this passion where like, if a, if a dad wants to invest in their kid, it was usually like playing piano. But now you teach him golf from age four

01:13:13.660 - 01:13:29.069

and you're gonna play 10,000 swings of golf. I mean, until you become masters and that's how the, the, the PGA, the tournament, like majority of our Korean young girls, you know, who have the same thing now with K pop, starting at young age they learn. Yeah.

01:13:29.080 - 01:13:49.660

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. You go to special school for that. They're so obsessed and perfecting it, you know, and it's the extreme form of discipline Koreans have that. There's nothing lazy about me. But, yeah, I think it's, well, for me, like, it's cool. It's amazing. It's

01:13:49.669 - 01:14:12.490

patriotic, you know, I'm very happy and except for the guy up north, like, he had this huge dichotomy dichotomy of these, you know, the fan CK pop K drama. The group that I was, um, uh, consulting Kyle, it's like spin cycle soul Cycle. But then you

01:14:12.500 - 01:14:34.080

have the guy from the north who's just so, yeah. Mmhm. Um, based on what we found on the internet we saw that you volunteered for the 2018 Olympics. That was probably, wait, you did research on me. You looked me up. Oh my God. What did you

01:14:34.089 - 01:14:49.459

find? I'm curious now. I mean, I was just building up the questions so I needed to know something about you. What do you remember finding? Uh it's just mostly a resume and then this article because I was like, wow, the Olympics is such a big thing.

01:14:49.540 - 01:15:13.759

I have to ask her about it. Oh, great. So it was something about the Olympics there. Ok. Um When I was 26 1988 the world announced that the summer Olympics was going to be in Seoul, Korea and I was working at Smith Kline and I had

01:15:13.770 - 01:15:27.430

so wanted to be a volunteer, like every part of my body is like, I want to go back and be a volunteer, but I had just gotten into business school and it was like, do I postpone it another year? Like I'll be an old May by

01:15:27.439 - 01:15:40.240

then, you know, because, you know, four or five years working out of undergrad and then go back business goes a long time, you know, and I didn't have any contacts. Like, who do I call to be a volunteer? Right. So I've always had this desire and

01:15:40.250 - 01:16:00.080

this dream inside of me that like one day I want to go and do something to serve Korea. Um So I've kept that dream inside for 30 years. And, um about a decade ago I met this uh oh when I was working with the Children's Museum,

01:16:00.089 - 01:16:17.580

I met this woman who had actually been a real life volunteer at the 88 Olympics. And she said it changed her life. She, she was telling me, I mean, her eyes lit up and she says I have never experienced anything as, as dynamic and as, as

01:16:17.589 - 01:16:31.419

like invigorating as that moment when she was there, you know, working with all the athletes. And so after listening to her, I thought, oh, I would love to do that one day. But like how right. So when I, when it was announced that the Winter Olympics

01:16:31.430 - 01:16:48.069

was going to be in Pyeongchang. 2018. That was, and I learned this like three years ago. So 2015, maybe I just decided that this was gonna be it. I'm gonna do it. I have no idea how, I don't know how I'm gonna get there. I didn't

01:16:48.080 - 01:17:05.830

know what their needs were like, it was one of those things. Like, like, what is your dream? Me, honestly, I'm not sure yet. I go to med school. That's a goal. I mean, it's more like a goal than a dream. Going to law school. So, like

01:17:05.839 - 01:17:21.790

working at the Olympics was a dream. It wasn't even a goal. It's like it was my dream, you know. Um, but the only problem was I didn't know how to do it. I didn't know who to contact. I didn't know what their, what the jobs were

01:17:21.799 - 01:17:41.569

like. I, I just didn't know. So I decided that, ok, this is my project. But I started literally with a blank like nothing. And I, for two years I contacted everybody I knew on this earth. I, everybody I met, I would say, do you know anything

01:17:41.580 - 01:17:59.660

about that? And they're like, this went on, I contact the Korean Consul General's office and he was just like, nah, they probably want just Koreans to volunteer there. And I'm like, really, he wasn't helpful and then they were like, oh, go meet that guy. He was

01:17:59.669 - 01:18:14.359

former ambassador and he was also on the Olympic Committee at Brazil. And so so I met with him and he's just like, well, do you know any ambassadors? I said, not personally, well, write them letters. So I tried to write letters to ambassadors, they don't answer

01:18:14.370 - 01:18:27.169

you back, you know, I mean, this went on, but I just kept persevering and asking and like, I really thought about it 24 hours a day. Right. Just trying to think what can I do because I really want to serve Korea. And I know I could

01:18:27.180 - 01:18:43.410

do something but I don't know what I could do. And then uh the ambassador who kind of said, no, there's nothing for you to do. And I have a friend, uh soulmate in Korea. They both sort of about the same time, uh wrote to me and

01:18:43.419 - 01:19:01.330

said, hey, we saw this in the newspaper. They're looking for volunteers, but they're looking for volunteers, international volunteers too. Why don't you look into it? So I looked into it. Do you know how hard it is to apply to be a volunteer for the Olympics? It

01:19:01.339 - 01:19:17.830

took nine months of applying first. You have to write it down and, and essay after essay after essay. It's not just like this isn't enough. Then then if you're selected, then they do a Skype interview. OK. And even on the Skype interview, like due to technical

01:19:17.839 - 01:19:32.569

glitch, I almost didn't make it because there are four people on the screen. The other three didn't come on because there was some, I almost didn't make it either to make long story short. Wait a minute, I gave a talk at Rice on my Olympic journey

01:19:32.859 - 01:19:47.790

and Ping Sung sponsored it and is on youtube so you can look it up. And I talked about how difficult it was to become a volunteer. But at the same time. So I applied to be a volunteer. Then my friend said, well, you know, you might,

01:19:47.850 - 01:20:02.720

I think we're doing this all wrong. Why don't you just go directly to NBC Olympics and ask them and see if there's a way that you can help them because you speak Korean, you speak English, you know, both cultures like surely, right? So then I started

01:20:02.729 - 01:20:16.290

that route and I, that is a whole, it was on youtube thing. Um And I finally got to the executive producer of Olympics and he and I start corresponding and he's like, oh, we love to have you. If there's a everything is if, if, if, if

01:20:16.339 - 01:20:33.290

keep in touch, call me next week, I mean, like this went on and on. OK, my people interview, you know. Um And so I was doing two prong approach, long story short, two years of persistence. And I finally get a letter from the Pyeongchang Olympic committee

01:20:33.299 - 01:20:55.439

says, congratulations. We want you to come uh about 5% of all of our volunteer, 100,000 people applied to be a volunteer. Like, isn't that crazy? They narrowed it down to 22,800 volunteers of which about 1000 something were from overseas international and a few 100 from America.

01:20:55.700 - 01:21:10.089

And they had like paramedics, they had um people of all skills, you know, anyway, so I go now, I don't think you would want to take this because it's gonna take forever. So I need to synthesize it. You really should look at the, the, the Yeah.

01:21:10.339 - 01:21:30.229

Um uh I, I'll tell you the link of, but I went with um a lot of hopes and dreams but no expectation and I just wanted to serve, I just want to contribute something meaningful and rather than boring you with all that went through ups and

01:21:30.240 - 01:21:48.189

downs all around. I, I got a job at the uh I BC. It's International Broadcasting Center, which is all the world media is in this building, including NBC. And that guy that I was, of course, executive producer was there too. So I got to meet him

01:21:48.200 - 01:22:06.959

and visit his studio. So like it was, we all, you know, it all came to a close um I was assigned to a group that uh uh of Korean contract workers who could not speak English, but they had to serve not, well, they were serving, they

01:22:06.970 - 01:22:23.290

had to work with OPS, which is the Olympic Broadcasting Center. And every day there were um problems like the first day of work I show up and the guy says, could you come and help us interpret? I go into the room, the Korean side and the

01:22:23.299 - 01:22:38.279

American side are like angry at each other. And the 10, they were saying something and I was interpreting, I go wait, why is it so so uptight? And then it escalated and escalated. And finally, at the end, like one of them was like, I don't know

01:22:38.379 - 01:22:54.270

if I went to the and they were like, and they were using curse words and because they all had different needs and demands, but they couldn't see out of that. And so in addition to interpreting somewhere along the line, I just threw out my interpreter's hat

01:22:54.279 - 01:23:11.919

and I start to mediate. I said, wait a minute, you said you wanted this, you said you wanted this, but they don't have this capability to go do this. And, and, and I'm like, but you know, these guys really need to show on live this the

01:23:11.930 - 01:23:28.830

scene. So the windows have to be clean, you know, like windows are five straight. So like, I'm going back and forth. And so after that one incident, my heart is racing. The Korean um side said, wow, it's nice to have someone like advocating for us, you

01:23:28.839 - 01:23:43.890

know, they were very happy that I wasn't just, you know, and then at the end of that whole thing, the O BS, which was the other side which I start to like, no, they were saying, thank you very much. You, you did a great job. Like,

01:23:43.899 - 01:23:56.379

uh basically I got them what they wanted to. And so it was like, if you ever want a job with us, give me a call. So like, I'm like, I don't really want to talk with us. I'm trying to help, but it was such a um

01:23:56.870 - 01:24:13.879

meaningful experience, you know, so I did that with I BC during the Olympics. And then the second half, I worked for the Paralympics, which to me was just, it touched my heart to meet athletes with who are blind and who can ski down the mountain faster

01:24:13.890 - 01:24:33.560

than you. And I can, you know, who are visually impaired or whatever. And so I escorted them from their venue to the Award Assembly and got to so it was great. And so um oh, and then at the end, I was the, the sorry, the counsel

01:24:33.569 - 01:24:50.339

general called and said, we want to nominate you for the presidential board for the volunteers at Pyeongchang Olympics. So I thought, oh, that's really nice. I said, do a write up on whatever you did. Um So what are some projects that you have in mind that

01:24:50.350 - 01:25:14.069

are yet to be pursued relating like introducing Korean culture to the community here? Good point. Um There is an organization that was started about 10 years ago in New York and now San Francisco started a few years ago and it's called Korean American Community Foundation. And

01:25:14.080 - 01:25:36.779

their mission was a philanthropic arm, but it's to raise a lot of money. But then to use the money they raise to help uh Korean American community, particularly those who are indigent, those who are unable to pay for anything. Um uh Those who do not have

01:25:36.790 - 01:25:55.290

the language uh facilities and it's the, the, the marginalized community that there are sort of not seen, you know, particularly with mental health issues, women's abuse issues. And so these organizations have, are popping up now. Uh And a friend of mine is running it in New

01:25:55.299 - 01:26:12.615

York. Another friend of mine from Smith is running it in and, and the consul general have asked me, like, would you consider that in Houston? And I, I don't know if Houston is ready yet because you need the donors, then you need the volunteers and then

01:26:12.625 - 01:26:26.189

you need a mission, right? So I think that would be good, but I'm not saying I'm going to do it. I'm just saying that it's, it's something that would be good for the community. And um do you have any advice you would like to say to

01:26:26.200 - 01:26:55.890

like Korean Americans or Koreans who have just moved to America or for like just on their identity or anything like that? Um hm Let me think about this one. I mean, there are Korean Americans who are born here, like my Children, they have Korean ethnicity, but

01:26:55.899 - 01:27:10.629

they're as American as you guys in terms of, you know, they identify with American culture and they think they're Texans, you know, they go to, they're at Notre Dame and they're like wearing cowboy boots and saying things like, hey y'all and they're like you from Texas,

01:27:10.640 - 01:27:27.979

you know. Um So you have that group of the next generation, the second generation. Then you have, of course, my generation, we, we're called 1.5. And then you have the immigrant generation, my parents and then there's the recent immigrants too. But um so who do you

01:27:27.990 - 01:27:52.689

want me to give advice to any of them or like if you have any special, like things you would like to say, like based on your own experience, I think for me, my life it has um see, I'm kind of skewed because my husband said my

01:27:52.700 - 01:28:11.850

wife likes everything related to Korea, like she's so passionate. But I think when you know your own roots, like where your parents are from, where your grandparents are from, what they did to get here or get there, it doesn't matter here, you know what they did

01:28:11.859 - 01:28:30.620

in their life. When you know those history, it gives you a sense of identity as to who you are on this earth and it helps you figure out what your destiny might be and when you're not sure who your birth parents parents are or when you're

01:28:30.629 - 01:28:48.910

not sure, you know, uh what part of the, like where you were, you know what I mean? When you don't know your identity, it um I don't want to say this wrong way. If you know your identity, it gives you a sense of um self confidence

01:28:48.919 - 01:29:05.819

and self worth and like, I don't hide the fact that I'm Korean. Like, remember that Japan American Student Conference? I could have easily said, well, I'm not Korean or I could have easily, just kind of dismissed it and moved on. Right. But the fact that I

01:29:05.830 - 01:29:18.984

spoke up and was very proud of it and that I was a cool chick back then, you know. So these guys thought that was interesting and they were curious to know more and then I spoke out and that impacted this young man now making a Korean

01:29:19.075 - 01:29:33.975

Japanese student conference, you know. So I think it's important to, to be proud of your heritage. And I can sense you guys are because you're not in your head. But there are a lot of people when I came to this country in the seventies, there was

01:29:33.984 - 01:29:58.620

this um move to not speak your mother tongue, really just focus on learning English, you know, and because it was important to learn English, right? Um And so then those kids all forgot their, their mother tongue. Um And as much as we all are Americans, remember

01:29:58.629 - 01:30:15.629

what that guy said in the library at Smith Kline, he goes, you might think you're American. But when in this corporate world, when people look at you, they see you first as an Asian person, then as a woman, then as a at that point, young girl.

01:30:15.770 - 01:30:30.180

And so for you to rise up, you need to kind of work on all those projections, right? Because the program that I was in was to groom future CEO S. There were 20 of us and we were like one from every ivy, you know, and so

01:30:30.189 - 01:30:46.060

like they had um expectations and hope for these, these kids to grow up, right? And so it was important to project that image as well as having substantive work. But that's when I learned. Oh, interesting, because I just go around do my me thing. I don't

01:30:46.069 - 01:31:01.229

really think about how people look at me or view me. I, I am who I am, but in this world they do. And you know, so my advice is know your roots. If you don't know, try to find out your roots if you can while your

01:31:01.240 - 01:31:18.620

parents are still alive, you know, um be proud of who you are. If, if these days we're all from blended families and blended cultures, you know. Um And um and as I said on, I think it was Channel two the other day talking about the chosen

01:31:18.629 - 01:31:38.589

museum. I said, you know, the reason why Freeman Foundation gave all that money to make these culture exhibits is because when you introduce other cultures to young Children at early age, it opens their mind. So K pop is no longer weird but cool. You know, they

01:31:38.600 - 01:31:55.430

start to, you know, they start to relate to it. And when that happens as these young boys and girls and young men grow up and they become ambassadors, right? They are gonna be the people to build that bridge, you know, to, to, to to to deal

01:31:55.439 - 01:32:11.029

with world conflicts. But it really starts down here. And if you're raised in, I don't wanna say redneck. But another word, you know, where you've never been exposed to it. Like an example is I went to a Chinese restaurant in Philadelphia about a decade ago. The

01:32:11.040 - 01:32:27.049

same restaurant that we used to go when I was young and this little four year old boy stood up on the banister. I looked at me and go, hey, mama, there's a Chinese family in here. And I went and he said it almost mockingly like, like

01:32:27.060 - 01:32:41.770

you're in a zoo and look at the, you know, chimpanzees and was like, wait, this is a Chinese restaurant. What are you doing here? I felt like saying, you know, but this young boy, he's never seen Asian people before, right? He's never had the exposure. So

01:32:41.779 - 01:32:58.560

he's going to grow up seeing like only what he knows. Oh, I forgot to say. And this, I hope that the person who's writing this down would include it because it's important when I was growing up uh in the US from age 10 to 20. Every

01:32:58.569 - 01:33:16.649

time I would meet someone. And they said, well, where are you from? Are you Chinese? No, are you Japanese? Because back then Korea was not known, then I would say I'm Korean and then you know what they would say, oh, I had an uncle who fought

01:33:16.660 - 01:33:33.310

in the Korean War. Oh, I know about Korea. I watch MS those two were. And so when the pope said, are you Chinese? I was like, this is the story of my life. Everybody I would meet would say, are you Chinese? And now the Pope is

01:33:33.319 - 01:33:54.029

saying, am I Chinese? You know, like come on Pope. So I lost my train of thought. What was I trying to say in telling this story? You were talking, oh, we were talking about um like being proud of your heritage. But there was something else. I

01:33:54.040 - 01:34:15.040

went off tangent with these stories. Um Oh yeah. So back then when I was 1019 70 in the seventies, you Americans didn't know much about Korea. They only knew Korea through the TV. Show Ma H the Korean War that's in the seventies and then the eighties,

01:34:15.339 - 01:34:33.600

I don't know what happened but uh nineties and here we are right now, you know, within 40 years, Korea has become hit. Even Korean cuisine is hit, right? People love park. Yeah, people love it doesn't matter what nationality you're from during the Olympics. Uh Ky and,

01:34:33.609 - 01:34:56.689

and Bulgogi people loved it. So, um what is my point though? It's, it's Korea has come a long way from country after the war. And I think now my Children and younger generation, like they don't have to go through what we went through, which is like

01:34:56.700 - 01:35:14.700

being Korea was sort of exotic but foreign or now it's more international. Even the language has changed, right? Like when I was growing up, it was oriental to Asians, you know, all the and, and generation before me, it's like you couldn't even buy property in Los

01:35:14.709 - 01:35:34.020

Angeles if you are of Asian descent, you know, that type of thing, right? So, like we all benefit from the work of our predecessors, right? Generation before us. Yeah. And then talking about that. Have you ever experienced discrimination for being Asian? I know you talked a

01:35:34.029 - 01:35:57.049

little bit about it earlier. Well, I think, um, I've told you stories of people pointing things out to me along the way. Um I think in Houston and Texas, I think people are just too polite. So if they feel anything, they're not as likely to say

01:35:57.060 - 01:36:13.509

anything to you. Um, in this part, I don't know if I want this on tape, but this is real. Um, when Trump got elected and my husband was at a grocery store and he had injured his knee. So he was in one of those handicap cards,

01:36:13.520 - 01:36:28.910

you know, and he must have accidentally backed into one of the ladies and she turned around and she was like, you need to go back to where it came from. Like Mike's husband was like CEO of Saint Luke's hospital. Like he, he like, he has lived

01:36:28.919 - 01:36:45.859

here like, ok, like he was in this handicapped the cart because he hurt his leg and he couldn't walk. So, but, and he came home and he's like, I want you to tell your mother to vote. I want you to tell you he was just fuming,

01:36:45.870 - 01:37:08.189

you know, but it still happens. Right. And this lady just because of her anger, she couldn't hold it in and because she felt he bumped into her, she lashed out at him and said you should go back to where you came from. Right. You know, so

01:37:10.540 - 01:37:30.229

it's still here, right. You, we all location, right? Your kids, depending on who you marry you. Look, you know, we have your DNA, right? Yeah. Yeah. So um moving on to your family a little bit. OK. So is your husband Korean as well? He's half Korean

01:37:30.240 - 01:37:52.209

and half Chinese. I know we're not doing a visual so you guys can't see but I want to show you. So maybe your Yeah, let me take a look at this. OK. So this is my husband. He I don't know, he doesn't really look Korean but

01:37:52.220 - 01:38:13.314

he's half Korean. His father is Korean. His mother is Chinese origin. Yeah. Yeah, we met in Philadelphia. He was uh working at Temple University Hospital. He was when you interview him next, he was the first Asian Ceo of a hospital at age 33 in the United

01:38:13.325 - 01:38:33.660

States. That was a bit, you know, now he's retired and moved on it. And then these are our kids. We have three kids. Um Right. Pick this one for each kid. And then I think there's a family picture. This is when I did a semester abroad

01:38:33.669 - 01:38:49.029

in Korea. I remember I was telling you. Yeah, we entered a Kimchi making contest and they actually gave us first place and I'm like, we didn't really do any better. It's the same kind of Kimchi because we came the farthest. So we were on Korean TV

01:38:49.040 - 01:39:12.180

network that night. Oh, I'm a second degree black dat Taekwondo. I, I actually broke all four boards. So, again, the Korean theme, right? And then this is a children's museum. Um We um uh because our three Children volunteer there as youth, we create a youth uh

01:39:12.189 - 01:39:33.080

scholarship for the Children, youth who volunteer at the museum. So each year we award one and just uh this past January, the board uh passed a resolution to make that scholarship in perpetuity. So it's called the Gin Family Award. Yeah. And this is, remember Festival Korea

01:39:33.270 - 01:39:54.649

that uh Asia, remember that thing I was telling you. Yeah. So that's what that was that when I went around and gave speeches and all that stuff. Um That, that these are my parents. I thought this is, hello? Oh, we must have gone over time. Is

01:39:54.660 - 01:40:15.669

it 5530? Did I talk for two hours? It's 503. We didn't start exactly that. He's just here. This was me when I was like a kid in Korea. Like I, I think that was the kind, yeah, the outfit. Yeah. Yeah. Oh, remember when the pope came

01:40:15.680 - 01:40:38.370

remember I told you about that. So here it is. Uh give me one second. Um upper m student greets Pope. Wow. So that there is, there is Pope Paul and he's up here. He's up here. Oh my God. Yeah. And that's the Korean outfit that my

01:40:38.379 - 01:41:02.500

mom had to ask my aunt to. I'm sure everyone was like, what in the world is that? But yeah. So that see in here, somewhere here. Yeah, I was, I wasn't making a dessert. So this is my mother when she was young. Ok. Ok. So she

01:41:02.509 - 01:41:24.779

worked in the radio, announced her business. She went to pharmacy school and then Korean War started and then my dad was the medical doctor. Let me see. Um Yeah, that was my, that was my dad. He was engaged to my mom and he was in Hawaii

01:41:25.759 - 01:41:53.020

presidency. Oh, this is their wedding pictures. Yeah, that was me, baby. So, yep, here we are. Oh, I just want interview. Ok. Do we cover all the questions pretty much? Do you have anything else you'd like to briefly mention? Um I think it's, I think it's

01:41:53.029 - 01:42:13.779

fun time to be a Korean American person, but more important than that. It doesn't matter what country you're from. Um Korea Japan, you, you, you name it, it doesn't matter. But as Asian American women, um there are a lot of stereotypes about us and depending on

01:42:13.790 - 01:42:34.310

your goals and your dreams, you know. Um my advice is if there's something you want so badly, like the Olympics thing, like, I mean, and for two years, that's all I did was, you know, talk to everybody that you can achieve your dream. If you put

01:42:34.319 - 01:42:50.830

everything you have into it, no matter what it is. And then after you achieve it and you do it, the, the, the self-confidence that comes with it that like you just feel like, gosh, now I really can't do anything. It's such a great feeling. And after

01:42:50.839 - 01:43:07.529

I experienced it, like, I just want everyone to feel that, you know, it, it's more than getting into a college or getting a job, you know, because that's like, that's like steps that we all have to follow, but a dream is different. So, thank you so

01:43:07.759 - 01:43:21.680

much. I really enjoyed our conversation today. So inspiring. Thank you. You guys are fun to talk to and you guys are good at good interview questionnaire interviewers, right?