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So today is August 17th 2021. My name is Kevin Chen, I am interviewing artist Victoria Nguyen on behalf of the Houston Asian Amar–American Archive, so thank you so much for taking the time out of your day to talk with us today.

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Oh, thank you Kevin. So, let's first start off with a few, I guess, questions about your early experiences. So my first question is, I guess, where were you born? I was born in Houston, Texas, and I basically just

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stayed here my whole life. My parents are from Vietnam and they settled here in like the early to mid 90s.

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Specifically, they first settled in the Spring Branch area, and they stayed there for about three or four years. That was like when I was a toddler, and

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then they moved a little bit up north, I believe, to the Cy–Fair area. And that's where I–I still am. Okay, and, you know, since your parents immigrated here from Vietnam,

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what was your household like growing up? Like any interesting experiences? Um, yeah, I–I think most children of—with immigrant parents can relate to this.

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Our parents, like they still uphold their own traditions that they–that they kind of held on to from their mother country. And, like, there was like a disconnect because like, at home, they would

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speak Vietnamese, to my brother and me. But then at school, I'd have to, like, speak–speak, read and write in English. And I remember even

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feeling like a little bit insecure about my accent at the–at the–at the youngest age at like, age three. So I would literally practice in—by myself at like, age three or four just like, saying my Rs, like, my mom

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would say mabi like for Barbie, and I would just be like "Barbie, Barbie Barbie." So I–I tried really hard. No one really told me like, oh, you have to fix your accent. But it was just an insecurity that I felt, this like going back and forth between a

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Vietnamese household and then to like an English speaking school. I wanted to fit in, I guess. And I didn't want to—I didn't want to

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like be different from the rest of my peers. Um, so that's like my earliest experience of like dealing with like the—like this—like a shift in Vietnamese versus American I guess.

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But because my parents were immigrants all–as well, they didn't have the privilege to go through like four years of university and get

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like higher education. My dad did get—go to like HCC and get like, a, like some certification for some technical work. I–I can't really recall what he did.

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I think it was like, probably in like, mechanics and–and car stuff. I don't remember. But, um, yeah, but my mom, she–she didn't go to school in the US at all.

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I think, if I remember correctly, she had to drop out of middle school in Vietnam because of the war. And so like, she had to basically stop school at a really young age and like, start working just to help keep her

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family afloat in Vietnam. And since she immigrated here, she's always been working too. So she's always just had like that hustle mentality. And so, with both parents working—with my dad—my dad was able to

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go to school my–my mom fortunately supported him in that. Um, yeah, like they–they weren't home a lot. So whenever I would go to school, I would have like birthday invitations.

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Like, hey, I'm having a birthday party at Chuck E Cheese. Can you come on Saturday? And I would be like, no, because no one can take me and

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my parents really didn't believe in like, playing with friends outside of school. I think all they really thought about was just like, go to school, and go home.

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That's all. And then we were at home they were at work. But even then, like, I mean, like, I was age six, my parents enrolled my brother and I to even more school on the weekends.

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So then, um, yeah, so like I—we didn't really have like downtime. So like, during the weekdays, like Monday through Fridays, my brother and I would go to like–like American school.

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And then on Saturdays, it would be at a church school, specifically at Our Lady of Lourdes Catholic Church, or Lộ Đức, which is a Vietnamese name. So at every Saturday, it would start with Vietnamese classes,

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which is like learning how to read and write in Vietnamese, and then an hour of recess and lunch, and then Bible class. And then after that: church, it was

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just like, Catholic mass. And then our parents would pick us up in the evening, which worked out really well for all the students there because most of the students enrolled, at least in that time, which is like the

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early 2000s, their parents were also immigrants, and many–many immigrants of that generation like post–war immigrants. They–they did—they always work.

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If they had a–an off day, it was—it would probably be like a random weekday, but even then—the— most of them were just all about, like working and trying to keep their families and their–their homes afloat.

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But yeah, like, growing up I felt really strange because like, Monday through Fridays, I went to an American school. But I–I went to a very small Catholic private

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school called St. Jerome. It's in Spring Branch and it like, it was pretty diverse. There were a lot of Hispanic kids there.

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But then again, it was a very small school. So even like the majority of the Hispanic kids, I didn't feel like alienated at all. But going to like,

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Saturday, Catholic Bible school, like, outside of the American school, I felt a little bit more alienated. Just because I wasn't used to seeing so many Vietnamese kids around me.

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And yeah, like the first early years of private, like American private school with like the Vietnamese Bible school, it was okay. Like, I know, like, I kind of felt like I had like a double life of going

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to American school and then Vietnamese school. But then, like, once I transferred to public school in fourth grade, there was a huge shift for me because I no longer

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was surrounded by all Catholics. I was surrounded by kids of all faiths, and like, all kinds of different backgrounds and all races like, I remember seeing like a Sikh person, like,

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and I was like, whoa, like, why–why–why did–does that guy have a head wrap around—on–on his head? That was like, really strange and new to me.

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And then I saw like a–a Korean boy, I was like, you're not Vietnamese? What? So that was like a–a shock for fourth grade me. Um, but like, as I got more exposed

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to people of different faiths and different backgrounds, I started questioning my own faith and like thinking like, hey, maybe like Catholicism isn't like, the only absolute thing.

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And around that time, I also got introduced to Japanese visual kei which is like rock music, and their–they have like a very androgynous and gothic aesthetic as well and fourth grade slash fifth grade me was

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like really into that. And that freaked my mom out. She literally thought it was possessed by the devil and just like, oh my god, like how can you—oh my gosh—and on top of that, I was

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like, starting to question like, hey—I just started like asking, like general questions that kind of challenged Catholic beliefs and principles like, hey, if Adam and

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Eve were created by God, then, like, how does it explain like the theory of evolution, and that didn't sit well with my mom. So yeah, that created a rift between us for a long time. And then like moving on to sixth grade, that was when I learned even more.

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I took a World Cultures class, and I learned even more about like, other faiths like Buddhism and Islam and Sikh, I believe.

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And yeah, I—12 year old me decided to tell my mom—like I didn't know any wiser, I said, "You know what, Mom, I'm–I'm gonna–I'm gonna be agnostic." And then she freaked out. Which like, also made her believe in

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more like, oh, like the devil is taking over my mind. My–my daughter likes rock music. She like doesn't believe in God anymore.

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Um, yeah, like, wow. Like, I just like look—like thinking back at that mem—at–at those times like, I don't know it was–it was like a whirlwind. Because this—it just started from like ages 10 to 12, which is like, super—it's

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a really young age but I think for many people, that's like, a turning point. For a lot of people. But yeah.

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So I spent a lot of my preteen to teenage years being like really edgy and anti-religion, really loving like alternative and rock and punk music. And,

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yeah, I think with my mom and my dad's very passive, he was a very, like, very, very passive, hands-off parent, throughout a lot of my childhood. That's also why I talk a lot about my mom.

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My mom—I gave my mom a lot of trouble, although, like, I–I wasn't allowed to really hang out with friends outside of school. Because again, my–my parents still had that mentality of just go to school, and go home, go to school, go

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home, and then church. But like, I don't know, at home, I yeah, I was just being my edgy self and because I couldn't hang out with friends, I was always on the computer.

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And so I would always make like MySpace accounts at like, underage, like, and that was like, my–my–my haven—like my safe haven, because I–I couldn't go and hang out with my friends.

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So I made a lot of friends online. And I found this community, like back on MySpace you used to be able to customize your pages. And so I kind of learned

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very basic HTML, and I started making MySpace layouts. And I would, like, make these layouts and on top of that, to like bring attention or bring more people to like add me to their friends list, I would make

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like these posters. And this, like the very eye catching. And, yeah, like it just like kind of rollercoastered from there, like just I—it was very fun.

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Like, I–I was able to just like play around with HTML and also talk to people who had the same interests as me, although, I'm not gonna lie they were much older than me, because they were mostly like thirt—ages 13 to 16.

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And I was like, ages 11 to 12. Um, but it was–it was great. Um, I did end up like, getting really obsessed with it. But that was because

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I–I loved them so much. And I continued that for a very long time. Even when MySpace died out, some of us did migrate to Facebook, which was not—it just wasn't

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the same. There's no—there's really no customizable feature on Facebook, but we did can continue the tradition of like making like these really eye-catching posters on Photoshop.

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And although like we were no longer sharing it to like other people, we were just like kind of making these Photoshop edits just for ourselves. It was just like a way for us to

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bond and message each other and teach each other new tricks. Like, hey, here's this shortcut in Photoshop so you can do this and execute XYZ.

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Yeah, I believe that–that–that tradition continued pretty—like pretty late into like the late 2010s. I–I believe the community has like, disbanded now. Now that we're all grown and we have like our own lives.

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But I want to say that like spending all the—all my time on Photoshop was like a gateway to my current practice right now. Like,

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I–I would always like try to aspire for photo realism. So I would make like these collages with like fashion models. And like, just like, cut them out and place them in like very ethereal

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fairytale backgrounds that I would find like on Flickr or DeviantArt. And I would just like, apply all these like really colorful and soft, diffused textures over them to create like this very mystifying mood.

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And, like, once I got into high school, I was still into the photoshopping, like the heavy photoshopping slash collage work. But my teacher in this Digital Imaging class told me like, "Hey, you

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have to take your own photos, you can't pull images from the internet anymore." So that challenged me because I didn't have a camera. All I had was a very old Android phone. Like the flip phone.

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So—but I was determined, I said, okay, well, normally, if I were to make a Photoshop poster, I would look for this kind of image. And so it

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kind of like forced me to create those images in them from, like other places on the internet. So I did that. And worked out really well.

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I submitted a portfolio for AP art, and I got a great review on it. Um, that was my—like my senior year of high school. And then going into college, I–I saw

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that University of Houston had a Photography Digital Media program. And so I decided just to try it out. I didn't think like, oh yeah, this is my affinity. I just thought, hey, that's really cool.

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And I like photography. I like digital media. So let's try it. And—I wanna—that's when I really got into photography, which is my main practice.

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And like from then on, again—like I was—like, I was supposed—sorry, my professor made us like, take all of our source images.

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And so I continued the practice of like, taking my own source images. But this time I upgraded to a Canon DSLR camera. And my early work still ha-had—it was like super edited and was very composite heavy, which

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means like, oh, like I–like I like compose and I add and add and add a lot of things to create an image. And then slowly I just like kinda started being a little bit more minimal,

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at least with my aesthetic. There's still that approach of like, creating and like staging a–a photo, but now I do it all like, physically, like, oh, like I will place this chair here.

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Instead of oh, I'm going to take a picture of a chair and paste it in the canvas on Photoshop. So yeah, I just talked a lot. I'm so sorry. But yeah, so that was like a very,

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very rushed run through of like my beginning—from early childhood beginning to now. Um, do you have any questions? Yeah so you know, as you said, like,

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growing up in like a Catholic household, right? pushed you towards that faith. So my question is, I guess, did your parents also push you in any other directions, maybe like in your professional life?

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Like did they want you to pursue a certain career or certain, like, education or studies? Oh, yeah. Um, like, when—I would say, like in my elementary to middle school years,

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my parents were still together. They are now divorced. But back before the divorce, they–they–they told me like, when you grow up Victoria, you're gonna be a lawyer.

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And I'm like, um okay I saw Legally Blonde, I guess I could do that . Or they told me like, I should be a nurse because they–they saw that, oh Victoria, you're–you're–you're–you're gentle and—you know how

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to care for others. You should be a nurse. They make good money, too. Now, that one never—that didn't stick with me because I didn't see a rom com related to nursing, so um— But la—with like

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lawyer—being a lawyer, I was like, hey, Legally Blonde, Reese Witherspoon but smart. Like, I like that. But as I got older.

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And as I got more—yeah, like I–I just—that the glamour of like of law just like, dissipated. And I–I never revisited that ideation at all. And yeah, as I

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got older, they, like, my mom and dad didn't really push me. Like, they—there was no tension on like what career path I chose. Like, as–as sad as it sounded like as I got older,

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they–they started having more rifts in their relationship. And so they–they spent most of their time like–like arguing with each other and not really, like paying attention to

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my brother and me. So yeah, I–I didn't feel much pressure from—from either of them, career-wise. The only pressure I–I felt was like faith-wise, specifically from my mom, she–she really ins—she

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continues to really, like push Catholicism on me. And now I identify as Catholic. So like, there's no like, push back from on my end. But my

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dad, he was never really like super religious to begin with, because he–he actually only converted to Catholicism from being Buddhist, just to marry my mom, which is a very common practice that I-I've noticed with Asians.

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And it had—it most of the time like that–that practice like continues just because like with–with Catholic marriages, they expect both parents to be Catholic and then raise their children Catholic.

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There's–there's not like a lot of wiggle room for that. But I–I am starting to see like more leniency with younger generations as they get married and as they have children, there's–there seems to be more of an openness to

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spirituality and letting their children decide what–what faith to follow. Yeah, but as long as like–like people still want to follow that Catholic

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trajectory, then that tradition's still gonna be in practice. And you mentioned how your work on Photoshop and MySpace, kind of—would you say that kind of spearheaded your interest in art, like from a young age to like now or was there maybe like an earlier

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experience that kind of introduced you like formally or informally to art? Well, yeah, I would say the Photoshop really spearheaded me into like, pursuing and like practicing art. I've always really loved like, consuming

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art, since I was very little. Yeah, like, I would love watching like movies and reading picture books, and just looking—like looking at paintings or, specifically, I really

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loved fairy tale illustrations and I still like draw my inspiration from that. So I've always, like really loved looking and consuming art, but like, just like deep diving into the wild west of MySpace really—like,

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it–it was like a turning point. I no longer was just looking at art, I was now like, creating art. You also mentioned that you got really into, like, the alternative side of,

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you know, things, whether it be like music—so did that kind of affect your like aesthetic at all during that time and how did that evolve as like, you grew older or discovered new things?

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Hmm. I–I like to joke about always being like an emo kid at heart with my friends. Um, but like, just getting into more alternative stuff when I was younger.

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Yeah, I did end up adopting a more like edgy aesthetic back then. Like I'll—I–I used a lot of like more harsh lines with cutouts and etc., or more like, contrasted colors instead of soft and like monotonous and diffused

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colors. But with that being said, I still held on I–I even though I did like start taking on more like, edgy and like a—like an edgier look, I still held on to like the soft and pretty

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aesthetic too. I–I feel like that's always been a thing with me, I always kind of like go back and forth between an ideal and conventional beauty versus like the alternative like

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pushback kind of more punk rock, I—um, going against the–the tradition or any convention kind of mentality. And I love that. I love the idea of like duality and push and pull.

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And just like thinking about how like one can't exist without the other like how both of them are in—um, disconnected with each other. Um, yeah, I–I think that's kind of

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reflected in my early project, Daydreams and Nightmares. I don't know if you're–you're familiar with that. But that was a project that I did in my third year of college it was like, basically like, exactly

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what it sounds—it's like—there's like two dualities presented: daydreams and nightmares. The daydreams it has like—it's all brightly lit. The subject matter, and the

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aesthetic is very soft and serene. There's lots of flowers, a lot of white, and like, very, like light colors. And I wouldn't say bright, but they're very light, and they just, like, kind of look glowy and–and soft and

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ideal. And then the daydream—oh nightmares, I'm sorry—the nightmare side takes on like a–like a visually darker aesthetic. And even also dark–darker subject matter.

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Like there's depictions of, like death, and more—and, like, more like unsettling and creepy imagery as well. But at the same time, like the–the nightmare side, I did, like draw inspiration from like,

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Baroque—like European Baroque art. Because there's like a certain like formalism and like grace, that is still very apparent in that art style. And I really

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loved that I—using that idea to like, depict or portray, like a gruesome or creepy subject matter because again, it–it—there's like a push and pull. The pull is like, oh, like it's like a–it's like a—it looks

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nice, but I mean, you look at the image themselves—like itself. It's like, oh, that's really creepy and I want to be scared but the image itself and then it looks—it just looks really nice.

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But yeah, this just to an-wrap up my–my–my answer. The–the punk rock in—attitude—in me it's–it's still there, although it's a lot more

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subdued. I noticed that, like, well you see this on our website, but like your current art and photographs like cover, you know, themes of escapism and anxiety.

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So could you kind of talk about what motivated you to produce art like dealing with these themes? Yeah, the escapism, I think some of it is rooted in the fact that I wasn't allowed to hang out with

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people outside of school. So like, whenever I wasn't, like, engrossed in the online world, I would basically just like be in my head and like, create my own–my own world.

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And a lot of it was like fairytale based. Just because I–I just loved, like, the lore of it all, just with it being like very magical and whimsical, that was something that I felt like, was missing from

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my–my everyday life as a child. And so I would like retreat to that state of mind for comfort. Um, but what I didn't talk about, like, was that,

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like, my childhood felt lonely. I–I guess because like my parents weren't home a lot, they were always working. And then I wasn't able

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to, like, really have like a social life outside of school. So yeah, like, with that, as–as I grew up, that ended up turning into anxiety and depression .

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And so yeah, like, as I–as I got older, I started becoming more aware of it. And using my—what could be like, or what kind of is like a bad ha-like a bad habit of like,

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dissociating from reality. I–I use it as, like, a fuel to create my art. And just to draw inspiration from—yeah.

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It's–it's in a way—creating the art and with those things it's a way of like, telling my story, but also as a way of cope—it's a coping mechanism for me too, like, whenever I feel like

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extremely depressed or anxious about something, I–I do tend to retreat into that state of mind of like, I'm going to go into another world, and I'm going to create, like a–like a more ideal scenario where I'm in control of what

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happens, when, in reality, I don't feel like I have control of how my life goes. So, like, the images that I create, like, they

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kind of show how I would like my life to be. It's like an ideal, it's like a–like a fantasy that I've created. But it's also like, a portrait of like, the anxiety and like the loneliness I–I feel from time

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to time. So, you know, kind of going back to, like your college experience, would you say that I guess the program was able to adequately like develop your skills, or—yeah, just like develop your skills in art or

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like— Yeah, um, it–it really. First, it–it gave me—it made me build a tough skin, because just like being critiqued on my art, which is like so deeply connected to my wellbeing and my personality being critiqued

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and questioned about it is really difficult. And I know it's difficult for many other people. But it just like the process of–of critique, and like, trying to

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create art within in an assignment– with limitations of an-of an assignment. They were all great challenges. It's—they taught me how to think critically about

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how I—like the messages that I will portray in my art because as much as I like to be like, this is my art this is my voice, this is my story, so you can't tell me any different, every–every person, when they're

00:35:10.920 - 00:35:28.570

viewing any piece of art or media, they're entitled to, like their own opinions about it, and what they're going to take away from it. And so I have to think about those things. And if I want to portray, like a certain message,

00:35:29.060 - 00:35:40.200

then I have to always think about—take those things in consideration with like, the audience's bias or what they could take away from it if I'm not careful.

00:35:43.580 - 00:36:01.800

Yeah, that just like, it taught me to think critically. And also like–hmm, like, what are the words I want to say, think critically about the art I make and think critically about the reception that it will–it will garner as well.

00:36:02.970 - 00:36:19.290

And also, it also taught me to also defend myself too. Like, if, whenever I feel like very strongly about a piece that I make, and someone gets, like, the wrong idea from it, then I

00:36:22.160 - 00:36:38.780

have to know how to like explain it to them, in a way that is confident and clear—I'm making sure that my message is clear to them. And also, like, knowing that, no

00:36:38.780 - 00:36:48.350

matter like what I say, they are still entitled to their opinion. I can only try so hard to like, get my message across. And if–if one

00:36:48.350 - 00:37:07.770

person doesn't get it, then that's okay, I can move on. So in that respect, getting an education in art really taught me to just be better, and really helps me like, continue my practice in a way that is constructive.

00:37:10.080 - 00:37:31.290

And just like having enough depth to go on. So on the topic of college, I saw that you were a studio intern and also an exhibition intern. So how did these internships kind of shape your path, if they did at all?

00:37:32.330 - 00:37:52.240

And did you have I guess, like a goal out of college or a path you wanted to take? Um, so my internships, a lot of it dealt with, like, archiving,

00:37:52.620 - 00:38:08.400

and like handling other people's artwork and documents and information. But with that being said, just like being present with other people's

00:38:08.470 - 00:38:28.380

artwork, and knowing–getting to know more about like different artists, it wa-it really benefited me because it made me more sensitive to other people's stories as well. And it also, I also took a lot of like,

00:38:28.650 - 00:38:48.070

pointers from reading what they had to say about their artwork. Because with—the goal with my–with my own artwork is like to, like tell a message to the audience. And so whenever I would be

00:38:51.100 - 00:39:03.650

like reading other artists' biographies and their statements, and just like getting to know—just like reading everything they have on their websites, and with my internship with

00:39:04.440 - 00:39:20.190

Keliy Anderson–Staley, which was—who was also my professor in college. It made me like, just really like, think about, okay, like they–they talk–they talk

00:39:20.220 - 00:39:34.900

and they write about their artwork this way. And so I thought that was—I think it's very effective. And so how can I apply that to what I want to say about my own artwork? Yeah, so although like on the

00:39:34.900 - 00:39:54.520

outside, most internships, we're dealing with not my artwork but with others, it's still helped me grow as a-as like someone who can express themselves more clearly to other people. And that's–that's really my

00:39:54.520 - 00:40:11.230

goal in anything that I do, like whenever I make an image, I want a message to be–to be spread, or to be–to be depicted, and it's open to the audience

00:40:11.620 - 00:40:27.950

interpretation, but I don't want it to just be like a–like a standalone image with like no substance to it whatsoever. Yeah, and then I really hold on to that mentality

00:40:27.950 - 00:40:49.610

too of like, getting–getting the message across, in–in my professional practice as well, when it comes to not just outside of my art, but whenever I work. Like, for example, like working at the museum, although

00:40:49.640 - 00:41:04.970

I'm not, like talking about art, or working directly with artwork, I still have to, like, get the message across to visitors that, hey, this is the Museum of Fine Art. And we are a respectable establishment.

00:41:05.650 - 00:41:14.810

And so I have to represent the museum in a positive way, and to create a positive experience for the visitors that come to the museum as well.

00:41:16.910 - 00:41:28.640

Yeah, does that make sense? Okay. I hope it does. Because, like, my–my whole point is like, I want to get the message across, but then it's like, oh gosh, but did my message make sense at all?

00:41:31.430 - 00:41:47.570

And, you know, you probably—with those internships and just dealing with art in general, you probably—do you have, I guess, do you have any opinions on the idea of like art or like pho-artists or

00:41:47.760 - 00:42:04.480

photographers kind of equating viewer count or recognition with success? Like, is that important to you, or do you have like any opinions on that? Like equating my account or my practice with success.

00:42:04.810 - 00:42:24.080

That's–that's an interesting question. Viewer count, or sorry, like viewer count or, like recognition? Or, I guess what I'm trying to ask is like, is it enough to you to produce art

00:42:24.180 - 00:42:39.640

and enjoy the process, or do you also wish that other people would also recognize your art or enjoy it, or, you know, see it—like exposure? Mm okay.

00:42:40.640 - 00:42:54.970

At–at least at this point in my life, I'm not like, success hungry, like, I'm not like gonna like, I don't know, like burn bridges and like cut people's- people's tires to–to get on top or anything.

00:42:55.420 - 00:43:13.930

But, um, of course, like, I do want to find some success, but I think my–my definition of success is a lot more loose. With the way –the way I determine success

00:43:14.440 - 00:43:31.670

is whether or not my artwork resonates with people. I don't want to measure my success with how many shows I get or how many press conferences I can–I can snatch up, or how many followers I can get on Instagram.

00:43:35.350 - 00:43:49.140

I think like if—if I—if my artwork can just like resonate with–with people, even if it's just like one person, then that's, then I think my goal has been achieved. Like,

00:43:50.820 - 00:44:08.080

although, like, I–I create my art based on my own personal experiences, it's in no way an attempt to like, like alienate anyone else's experiences. My goal is to just like present my own story in a way that

00:44:09.330 - 00:44:24.190

other people might relate to. I feel like if I–if I try really hard to relate to everyone, then that's just not feasible. Everyone has their own–everyone has their own different

00:44:24.280 - 00:44:39.880

experiences and opinions. And I can't like appease or appeal to everyone. So I think the best thing for me is to

00:44:39.880 - 00:44:59.550

live my truth, tell my story, and others will appreciate that authenticity and hopefully relate to it in some way. You have some artwork displayed at the Lawndale Art Center.

00:45:00.310 - 00:45:17.520

You even received the Big Show 2021 Juror's Award. So congratulations on that. Could you tell us a bit more about that? Yeah, um, I guess I could talk more about the project itself.

00:45:17.520 - 00:45:33.560

It's called–it's called like the two images—the two photos—well it's listed as three on Lawndale's information, but technically, it's only two photos. It's just like a single photo and then a diptych, which is like two photos.

00:45:33.610 - 00:45:50.580

So I guess, three physical photos, but two separate pieces of work, I guess. Um, so those pieces are from my project called Seeking Comfort in Confinement, which is all about

00:45:51.410 - 00:46:10.120

my experience living in isolation during the 2020 pandemic, although I'm scared that like, we're gonna go back to that lockdown mode with the coming variant of the virus. But, yeah,

00:46:10.790 - 00:46:27.430

it–it basically is about the loneliness that I–I felt being away from my friends and family and just like seeing the whole world like change, and how like all these businesses are closing down and how

00:46:27.520 - 00:46:48.030

schools are having to adjust to remote learning and remote everything and really like and just like social distancing, being a huge, prominent part of life now and like mask wearing—all of that just like

00:46:50.580 - 00:47:03.990

just really make–starting to feel super lonely. And yeah, and just like starting to feel very confined in–in–in the

00:47:03.990 - 00:47:20.310

home. Um, so playing on that particular loneliness that came from the pandemic, and also like pulling from like–like the loneliness, I–I–I felt like in the past, like growing up as a child.

00:47:22.620 - 00:47:36.750

Like, I–I–I kind of put those two together to create this series, to create like these I guess–I guess strange like I guess someone, you can–you can–you can describe it as strange—like strange portraits of this with

00:47:36.800 - 00:47:52.930

different objects around the house. And, like, and starting to treat the objects as like, literal companions.

00:47:55.380 - 00:48:06.510

Which also plays on like my old habit of like, playing make-believe as a child. And like, it's like starting to have like, imaginary friends, etc., as a child.

00:48:06.780 - 00:48:20.160

So I–I used that kind of like mentality to create this project. And so it was like a very simple equation, it would be like—it would be me in the photo, and then objects in the photo like a lamp or a baby doll.

00:48:23.370 - 00:48:38.590

Yeah, so I think like just like the strangeness of it all. And just like, photographing myself, not just like, as like—it's just like, sitting with a–a port like it was an object, but also like interacting with it and

00:48:39.190 - 00:48:52.240

engaging with the—with an object, like, for example, in the Lawndale photo with a guardian angel. I'm like looking at the angel, I'm not just like, you're the name, you're the lamp, here's me.

00:48:52.920 - 00:49:01.690

Or with like, the–the Expulsion piece. I'm not just like, here's a baby and me. And it's like, no, the baby is coming out

00:49:02.030 - 00:49:15.140

of–of my stomach. So there's like–there's like a, there's activity and there's engagement going along with—between myself and the objects.

00:49:16.350 - 00:49:29.850

Yeah, I think it's like just like the strangeness and like the bizarreness of it makes people think like dang, she's real lonely. Um, and–and yeah, I–I wanted that to happen though.

00:49:29.850 - 00:49:52.740

That was like the—that was the point, just like trying to make do with–with your surroundings in a very difficult time of isolation. And just like seeking comfort in–in strange ways. I–I was really surprised that it

00:49:52.870 - 00:50:08.050

got attention from the juror a-and it got enough attention to get the award too. Like I–there's been some some criticism from other people, that they just thought, like, wow, this is—these are really weird photos.

00:50:08.170 - 00:50:28.500

But it was very touching to hear that tho-those photos in particular, like it caught the juror's eye and it tied in theme of the Big Show at Lawndale really well.

00:50:30.670 - 00:50:46.220

So—which was my goal, and I'm really happy to see that, like someone or other or someone or like few other people do get it, which is also like the way I measure success, if it resonates with–with some people, even if it's not like a

00:50:46.350 - 00:51:04.820

bazillion people—you know only like maybe like, one or five people, then I've done my job. And, you know, you briefly mentioned the pandemic, so, you know the pandemic has been a part of our lives for a long time now.

00:51:06.440 - 00:51:20.640

So have–have you done anything to like cope with the pandemic? And would you say that your project Seeking Comfort in Confinement was a way to cope with that? Oh absolutely.

00:51:20.760 - 00:51:35.340

Um, doing the project itself was–was and is very cathartic. It's, yeah, it's just like a—I consider it like my own unique way of like, destressing whenever I shoot

00:51:35.340 - 00:51:55.320

photos. Like, you know like I confront the–the sadness and the loneliness by like shining a spotlight on it. Yeah. But on top of that, I–I

00:51:56.060 - 00:52:12.230

know that like, since March of this year I believe. Lockdown has like really loosened up since then, in fact, like, I live in Texas, like, life seems to be pretty much back to normal

00:52:12.760 - 00:52:32.400

because a lot of businesses are open with like, mostly full capacity, and mostly regular business hours. And there's not a lot of mask wearers. Working at the museum, I–I–I see a lot of people not wearing

00:52:32.400 - 00:52:42.010

masks. That's okay. It's only recommended. And it's not required at this point. So yeah, I would say

00:52:44.080 - 00:53:02.160

I—the loneliness I felt is much more alleviated just because, like, I am seeing my–my friends and family more often. But I, like I said earlier in this interview, I don't know if that's going to change again.

00:53:02.520 - 00:53:17.610

Since there is like a Delta variant and flu season is coming up in a few months. And so I don't know if like, lockdown is going to be like a cyclical thing moving forward.

00:53:18.120 - 00:53:39.420

And until like we can find like a long term solution to–to this virus I don't know. Kind of going back to work as an artist. Do you have any long term goals or, you know, short

00:53:39.420 - 00:53:56.550

term goals or just goals in general? Um, yeah, um I do want to continue like creating art. Again, like I—there's no like, goal

00:53:57.700 - 00:54:10.250

set like professional milestone, like be like, oh, I want to publish a book and I want to be—I want to have my own solo show. All of those—those would be very nice, but it's not like something that I'm like, grinding

00:54:10.250 - 00:54:24.860

really hard for at this point in my life. But I do want to continue working in the arts community, somehow, whether it's like, a retail job at–at the museum gift shop, or, like a marketing position at another museum.

00:54:25.330 - 00:54:44.050

I don't know. I just—what I like my goal is very vague. But I do want to continue like working within that environment. I just feel like—like that's like where I belong, like as sentimental as that sounds.

00:54:44.520 - 00:54:59.160

I feel–I feel safe in that kind of environment. I feel seen and understood. And I love like, helping other people engage with artwork as well, whether it's like me on the sales floor or

00:54:59.610 - 00:55:09.470

me like behind a social media account for a museum. I don't know, I, I'll find–I'll find a way to like insert myself in the community. But on

00:55:12.960 - 00:55:27.920

top of that, like I love helping people like engage with artwork, but also like tapping into their own creativity too. I had–I had—we didn't talk about this at all, but I–I play the piano.

00:55:27.920 - 00:55:43.420

And I also teach piano lessons too. And what I really love about teaching piano lessons is like—just like watching my students, but no matter what age they are, if they're like adults or–or children, I love like, just like,

00:55:44.220 - 00:55:58.720

watching–watching them develop and like, not only like be technically better at piano, but also like seeing, like, their expression and their–their confidence in expressing themselves through the music through piano grow as well.

00:56:00.210 - 00:56:13.280

That's something that I would like to continue. So that's what I do when I'm not like making artwork or working at a daytime job, I'm also teaching piano lessons and helping

00:56:13.340 - 00:56:36.450

people en-engage in some kind of creative way. And do you have any advice for individuals like just starting to get into art that draws heavily on like photography—any things you wish you would have known before you started, I

00:56:36.450 - 00:56:56.730

guess, or embarked on your journey? I would say like, just have confidence in your–your own vision. I–I know my pho-my photography

00:56:56.730 - 00:57:11.250

professors are gonna like cringe at my advice that I'm going to say to you, but I wouldn't get so caught up in like, the technicalities of it like, oh, no, my–my shutter speed was not this or my lens—I don't have the

00:57:11.250 - 00:57:25.840

lens for that, like no, you don't–you don't really need that. Unless, like, your goal is to create awesome photos for National Geographic, then yeah, you might. But um, but if–if your goal is to just like create

00:57:26.450 - 00:57:44.230

captivating images, whether it's like a captivating landscape or a narrative photo, like similar to what I do, just think about—think–think very critically about, like, how you're going to approach that, like, what are you—how are you going to compose that photo?

00:57:45.090 - 00:57:53.980

What like, what, yeah, like, what–what what's the point that you want to get across with this photo that you're going to create? Just I think that's the main thing that you should focus on.

00:57:53.980 - 00:58:12.190

And then the technical–the technical stuff will come later, like, oh, I–I should get this–this lighting equipment, or I should get this lens. And also, be open to constructive criticism too. Just because you're

00:58:12.360 - 00:58:26.500

an artist doesn't mean like it–it doesn't mean you're hot shit, it–it doesn't mean like your–your opinion's like—is–is going to invalidate others. Like, yes, there's gonna be some negative feedback, but not all the

00:58:26.540 - 00:58:40.960

feedback is negative, just because it's not praise it's not like explicitly praising or overtly positive and optimistic. Like, constructive feedback is good too. And just always be open to learning and growing.

00:58:42.730 - 00:58:59.720

I feel like, once—I feel like if you always have that mentality of like, wanting to learn more and wanting to be better, then that—like that's gonna, like, drive you to become successful.

00:59:01.100 - 00:59:15.080

Like once you think, okay, this–this is my way. And that's it. Like once you think like you–you know everything then you're basically pigeonholing your–yourself and limiting yourself into, like,

00:59:16.430 - 00:59:31.190

not being a better person or a better artist. So, be open. And don't take everything, too, too, too personally, although that's–that's very hard in the beginning, but you'll–you'll learn with time.

00:59:34.610 - 00:59:48.660

Now, I'd like to shift a little bit to—of your family or personal life, and you briefly touched on it earlier. And you mentioned you have a brother, so what is your relationship like with him?

00:59:52.180 - 01:00:11.620

I'm not gonna lie, we're not close. Growing up my dad specifically treated us very differently. And like my

01:00:11.620 - 01:00:27.840

brother, just, he's–he's only older than me by like 15 months, so we're very close in age. And so like he would get compared to a lot with me. And not in–not in a nice way, or like a constructive way,

01:00:27.840 - 01:00:43.210

either. It would be this comments like, "Oh, why can't you be smart like your sister or why can't you remember anything like your sister—look at your sister, she does this better than you or look at her, she doesn't cry as much." So that

01:00:47.260 - 01:01:06.350

caused the–that–that I think that caused a rift between us. Just because there was like such an unequal treatment between my brother and me. But with that being said, like, even though my dad seems to favor me,

01:01:07.310 - 01:01:26.400

it wasn't like, I didn't feel like—I didn't feel good about it. And it's–it's like, those comments weren't really affirming to my capabilities, or like, my intelligence at all it was just like, you know, it's like, it was used to undermine my

01:01:26.400 - 01:01:46.380

brother. And it–it never felt like a true and genuine acknowledgement of–of me as a person. So yeah, like, growing up, I–I didn't have a lot of like confidence because of that, although, like,

01:01:47.000 - 01:02:04.090

someone on the outside could think, oh, but your–your dad really likes you, it never really felt that way. So, like, I–I didn't have confidence in anything that I did. And so I think that also drove me to like, constantly, like,

01:02:04.140 - 01:02:22.320

want to be better and better, which is good now. Because now I've used—I use that as a way to like, always strive for improvement. I–I reached a point in my–in my life and my growth to where like, I'm not

01:02:22.320 - 01:02:38.570

using that to like, to deter me from being happy with my–with my life or being happy with the work that I produce. But yeah, my brother–my brother and I just aren't close.

01:02:40.010 - 01:02:57.100

He's very, like left brained. He's a very like math–math and science kind of guy. And I'm—I got more of like the reading, writing, art side. So yeah, like, he–he excels in things that I don't.

01:02:58.760 - 01:03:16.200

I–I wish my–my dad growing up, like, saw that. But I don't know. What is your relationship with your parents? And also, are you close with them?

01:03:16.450 - 01:03:33.520

Or is it kind of the same with your brother? Um, well, my mom, like, after my parents divorced, my brother and I stayed with our mom. So like, my mom and I like we did have our differences because I–I challenged

01:03:33.750 - 01:03:52.840

Catholicism, I challenged conventions of like feminine beauty, which was like, looking and liking more alternative styles. And also, like, having a–a boyfriend at school,

01:03:53.370 - 01:04:11.190

"ooo," because like, I wasn't supposed to have like, a social life outside of school, but I–I ended up finding a way to get a boyfriend. But, uh, yeah, so like, there were—we had our differences but as I–as I got

01:04:11.250 - 01:04:26.560

older, and–and like, she started to, like, deal with—deal and heal from that relationship and the divorce with my dad, I think she became more sensitive to like

01:04:27.970 - 01:04:48.110

mental health. She–she went to therapy after the divorce, and she–she's, like, really benefited from it. And so like, whenever she's—she sees that I'm struggling with my mental health, whether it be like through

01:04:48.110 - 01:05:04.530

anxiety or depression, then like, she is sensitive to it because like she also dealt with it throughout the relationship with my dad and also had to confront those issues whenever she went to

01:05:04.530 - 01:05:14.240

therapy. So I'm really grateful for that. And we're closer because of that. And also because I'm—I've chilled out with the

01:05:14.660 - 01:05:28.100

rebellion. So, um, so yeah, I'm–I'm close with my mom. But with my dad. No, I'm not close to him, it's—it—it is

01:05:28.230 - 01:05:40.230

pretty much like my—like the rela-relationship I have with my brother. I don't talk to him. I don't feel comfortable sharing things with him.

01:05:41.430 - 01:05:56.950

Just because like, whenever I try to, doesn't seem like I clicked with him so and like that my–my thing is like, I–I really want my words and my work to resonate with people. And when I see that it's not resonating with him.

01:05:57.600 - 01:06:10.450

I just feel very discouraged. And I don't want to share things with him. And so yeah, I'm just, I–I guess, like, there's like, at–at best, like an acquaintance

01:06:12.450 - 01:06:27.500

relationship with my dad. If you're comfortable sharing, you know, you talk about like anxiety and depression. Do you have any ideas why

01:06:30.000 - 01:06:51.290

Asian Americans seek mental health care at like much lower rates than like other racial groups? I think it's just because, well, I can't say—I can't speak for all Asian Americans, but I

01:06:52.870 - 01:07:07.900

can say like, specifically with Vietnamese Americans whose parents, like, lived through the war of the Vietnam War in the 60s, I mean, 70s.

01:07:08.890 - 01:07:24.160

I–I would say that, like, they're dealing with— our parents like, are–are probably still dealing with it, but they had to deal with with like all the traumas that came with

01:07:24.220 - 01:07:40.810

like poverty. And just like, post—and just like, all like the events that happened like after that war, so there was a Vietnam War, and then there was a Cambodian War. And I know like those two events, like, were

01:07:40.810 - 01:07:57.680

like, they did get happened, and there–there were things that my–my parents at least had to struggle and go through. And, like, they don't really talk about it. Surprisingly, at least mine don't, and I think it's

01:07:57.680 - 01:08:14.070

just because—like living in that–in that kind of environment, they're just taught to, like hustle to just get through the next day. Like don't—there's no time to like contemplate

01:08:15.900 - 01:08:30.960

about traumas and like difficult situations—just get through it. And–and then when they immigrated here I think they just see that life is

01:08:30.960 - 01:08:48.350

just so much better in the states now and then it was like in like, war and poverty-stricken Vietnam. So they see like what–what—why are you—what are you sad about, you–you literally have AC you have–you have a roof over your head you got food, why are you sad?

01:08:48.740 - 01:09:05.500

And so like, maybe they–maybe they can't comprehend that— like–like the idea of like, taking care of your mental health is, like, crucial.

01:09:06.710 - 01:09:20.190

Just because like they–they went from one traumatizing phase to a–a less one I believe—everyone's experiences is different. But theirs is like super like—there’s is like

01:09:20.370 - 01:09:40.370

way–way different and I think they're just grateful to get out of that and so there's not much of a sensitivity for —for like depression or anxiety that–that–that

01:09:42.320 - 01:09:56.400

like starts like living in a place of argue– arguably like privilege. Yeah, I–I think—and also they weren't allowed to I guess like there—they—yeah like I said, like they were just like, taught to just hustle.

01:09:56.400 - 01:10:13.390

Let's keep on going to just keep on going. But I am glad to see that Asian Americans are starting to, like, seek help for their mental health. I think it's important to destigmatize that.

01:10:16.990 - 01:10:32.650

Yeah because I feel like if we–if we keep like–like, if we keep making it like a taboo subject, then it's just gonna cause more problems. And yeah, it'll just cause more problems.

01:10:32.730 - 01:10:49.050

And like, we're just not going to like progress. And–and with our—with like—with our mental health. I guess

01:10:49.720 - 01:11:09.450

on a more positive note, do you have any other passions besides like art and creating art? Yeah, I–I love playing the piano. Um, I took lessons—like I started lessons at age nine.

01:11:09.540 - 01:11:26.510

And then I–I continued them up until I was age 18 or 19, one of those ages. And I also played for my churches, weekly

01:11:26.510 - 01:11:42.200

Vietnamese masses. And so that was a way to like, kind of appease my mom’s like—I don't want to say Catholic agenda, because that sounds like she's just like, I don't know, I don't want

01:11:42.200 - 01:11:57.160

to say that. But like, during like my re-rebellious phase, that was a way to, like, kind of appease my mom, and just be like, look, Mom, I'm involved in the church, and I'm playing piano, yay.

01:11:57.860 - 01:12:15.290

But it was also a way for me to find some way to connect to the faith as well. Although, like, I disagreed with a lot of the principles at the time, like playing the piano for the mass, it–it was like a

01:12:16.700 - 01:12:33.400

very personal act that I was doing. But yes, I was–I was accompanying the choir, and like, following the conductor, but I was still able to, like, find solace in like playing the

01:12:33.400 - 01:12:48.020

music in a way that I wanted to, like, for example, I would, like oh, I'm–I'm gonna do this–this chord progression on this piano, just to create this feeling. And I—it just gave

01:12:48.020 - 01:13:03.320

me an autonomy that, or a sense of control that I felt like I didn't have during that time of my life. And it also helps me like—it was also a way for me to, like

01:13:03.420 - 01:13:24.680

create a—an auditory story for the congregation members to like—I don't know, like–like, certain chord, like if I wanted to portray a certain mood, and I wanted to create, like, I wanted to create like a beginning, middle and end, I would do

01:13:24.680 - 01:13:38.620

like a certain chord progression to like—just like take the–the congregation members to like, some sort of emotional journey. I don't know. Do you play any instruments at all?

01:13:39.750 - 01:13:51.860

Guitar? Okay. Yes. So I have an idea of what you're talking about. Yes. Okay. Yeah. Um, so like, on the guitar like a–a guitar is all based on

01:13:51.960 - 01:14:10.110

chords, right? And so yeah, like, for example, you can go from like an A minor chord to an E seven chord and then back to an A minor chord—that's kind of—that's–that's some sort of progression and it–it,

01:14:11.190 - 01:14:23.750

there's like a potential to, like, create different moods depending on like, the–the flow and like the way that you arrange the chords. So, I

01:14:23.750 - 01:14:36.900

really love that—I like to play around with that idea. Whenever I–I play the piano. I don't–I don't write any music. But I'll like, what I like to do is

01:14:37.820 - 01:14:58.330

I'll listen to a piece of music that's like, not on the piano, and then I'll try to like transcribe it for piano and try to incorporate some other instrumental voices that I like in there, like–like for example, there's

01:14:58.920 - 01:15:13.060

this song from the Prince of Egypt soundtrack from–from DreamWorks. And it's called Deliver Us. So it's like the beg-it's like the opening song.

01:15:13.060 - 01:15:26.330

I think it was the first one that appears in that movie. And it's like a huge—it's like an epic orchestral piece—it's written by Hans Zimmer. So it's like a super epic. But—and it's–it's not for piano, and there is a piano arrangement for it.

01:15:26.420 - 01:15:40.910

But I like to challenge myself and be like, okay, how can I incorporate this symbol on the piano with my two hands and my 10 fingers and at the same time incorporate the strings or the–the

01:15:43.010 - 01:16:01.040

soprano voice or like the alt-the tenor voices. That's something that I like to challenge myself to, it's just like super stimulating, and also like helps me think—it's like mental exercises, like, how can I create a story?

01:16:01.530 - 01:16:11.290

Like that's like, also what I like to think about whenever I make any kind of artwork like visual artwork? What story can I create? And how can I execute that idea that I have?

01:16:17.110 - 01:16:35.820

And, you know, you mentioned the Vietnamese choirs? Is there any other I guess community based organizations that you were a part of—organizations or groups? No,

01:16:36.700 - 01:16:51.400

short answer no there isn't. That's the only one really, I got into it, because my–my piano teacher—the one who taught me from ages nine to 18, she became the

01:16:52.360 - 01:17:06.780

head conductor for that church. And so my mom approached her and said, hey, can you teach my daughter how to play piano for church? Then she's like, yeah, and so like, she—she was my mentor, and she taught me everything that I know.

01:17:08.600 - 01:17:27.060

And so like, that's how I got into the church choir, it was really through her, and I still maintain a really close relationship with her. Like, I know, like, it's–it's kind of like, how

01:17:28.400 - 01:17:36.440

dancers have a relationship with each other, like their partners. Like, I–I understand her cues. I understand her–her vision and her

01:17:36.440 - 01:17:49.700

intentions. And so like, my–my job as the accompanist is to help her achieve that, but also help the choir members help her achieve her vision,

01:17:53.190 - 01:18:14.240

too. And I'm curious to learn besides like the Vietnamese choir, was there any other I guess like cultural activities or like holidays you celebrated as a child? Or was like the church the main thing?

01:18:16.560 - 01:18:35.200

Hold on, I'm going to charge my phone. background. But, um, yeah, I would say most of the holidays that I celebrated and–and I continue to celebrate are like, Catholic, so

01:18:35.370 - 01:18:51.870

yeah, we'll celebrate Christmas, we'll celebrate Easter. And there are like days–days of obligations that we have to attend Mass for. Which like fall under the Catholic calendar. Like for example, All Saints Day, or

01:18:54.870 - 01:19:08.820

the ascension or the assumption of Mary—Mary the Virgin Mother of Christ. But as for like–like Asian slash

01:19:08.870 - 01:19:29.000

Vietnamese holidays, we celebrate—we do celebrate the Lunar New Year. And my, the elders in my family, they–they still like, want us, they want us to continue the tradition of like, paying respects to all

01:19:29.000 - 01:19:43.330

the elders in the family like whenever, whenever Lunar New Year comes we have to give like not a–not a speech, but it has—we have to like really pay our respects and say like, the lines of like, happy new year,

01:19:45.100 - 01:20:02.980

I–I wish you have a–a prosperous year of–of and like good health, et cetera, et cetera, before we can collect the–the red envelopes. That's the one holiday that we–we celebrate.

01:20:03.040 - 01:20:20.940

And then you will like go see like lion–lion dancing. Dragon dancing hasn't really been a thing. I think it's because it's hard to choreograph, but lion dancing. It–it does like–like that does get like, organized and performed at the

01:20:20.940 - 01:20:36.770

churches in other parts of Houston too like, especially Bellaire. But my family just goes to the church for that. That's the only one. I know like—there's like the moon–the moon Festival.

01:20:39.080 - 01:20:50.490

I don't know how to say it in English. I think it's called in Vietnamese. I forget the English word for it. But that's something that I don't

01:20:50.520 - 01:21:02.680

celebrate. But I do see my–my mom and other aunts and uncles ,like, stressing, like, oh my god, I have to get like pastries and give it to the elders. Well, I see them stressing out about it.

01:21:02.680 - 01:21:13.300

But as for like, myself, my brother and like, the cous-our cousins. We don't–we don't engage in that. And our parents

01:21:13.370 - 01:21:30.520

don't really like stress like don't–don't really pressure us to. So you would say like–like that cultural heritage, like the Vietnamese culture heritage isn't that big, I guess in your life or your brother's life then?

01:21:34.060 - 01:21:54.110

No, it isn't. I'm just speaking for my family, though. I imagine it's bigger for other–other families. I think it may also have to do with like, specifically, like, my generation of just like,

01:21:55.710 - 01:22:14.660

kind of pushing back from, like, holding on to our Asian traditions and trying to assimilate to American culture. I think that's a big factor in that. But I di-I do know about this idea.

01:22:14.660 - 01:22:30.120

I think it's a Japanese idea but I–I don't remember the–the proper term for it. But like the first generation of like, immigrant children, they all kind of like, kind of refuse the

01:22:30.120 - 01:22:43.300

traditions of their motherland and want to assimilate. And then the second generation after them will want to like, go back to it, kind of reclaim their—that culture.

01:22:44.010 - 01:22:57.980

And the third generation is like a fusion between assimilation and then like, their–their traditional beliefs from their motherland. But I

01:22:57.980 - 01:23:13.040

think we're still in that first generation mindset. So there's–there's also been—there's like a huge push back. You've also been aware there's—well, you probably aware of this there's

01:23:13.040 - 01:23:29.850

been a rise in anti–Asian sentiment and violence. Do you have any perspectives on this current climate? Honestly, I do come from a place of privilege.

01:23:31.010 - 01:23:48.720

Because I'm able, like I—at least, like in the part of Houston that I live and I work in there doesn't seem to be any visible, anti–Asian sentiment. I've always

01:23:48.770 - 01:24:09.020

felt safe, just like being myself and–and just working and just like, going around in my neighborhood. It's really saddening, that if that's not the case, in other

01:24:09.020 - 01:24:26.990

parts of this country, and I feel like I am in a bubble of–of privilege and yeah, like, I remember one person told me like the like you know like the anti—there's like a rise in anti

01:24:28.910 - 01:24:39.310

Asian crimes in like San—like in–in like in–in California, I forget which city and I'm like, what really? Like I—that was news to me just because yeah,

01:24:42.180 - 01:25:02.320

like I just, that's just like something that I cannot relate to, at least as—at–at–at the time of this interview. Like my–my heart does go out to the victims of those crimes and the people who like

01:25:06.680 - 01:25:25.840

who have like—are affected like. Well, they're not like they know people who have been victimized. Yeah. I, it's–it's also, it's also very sad that this is happening

01:25:25.990 - 01:25:44.420

in 2021, I would expect–I would expect us to be better. And, like not repeat patterns of like, racial injustice and–and prejudice in this day and age, because

01:25:45.940 - 01:25:59.520

there's been so many—there's so many resources to like, educate yourself. And I would hope—I would–I would hope that would like, cultivate a culture of

01:25:59.570 - 01:26:17.190

like, understanding and sensitivity, but unfortunately, there's still work that needs to be done. Unrelated question, but do you have any perspectives on, I guess, the Asian American art scene in

01:26:17.190 - 01:26:36.810

Houston? Has it I guess grown stronger, weaker in recent years? I think it's getting stronger. But I'm, this is–this is a—this is–this is something

01:26:38.170 - 01:26:53.400

that this is like—this is on me. Like, I haven't really like, gotten myself into that scene. I know, like, there is a scene for it. I know like there's like a—the Asian—the Jung Asian

01:26:53.730 - 01:27:13.360

Center, I believe. And there's like the Asia Society, too. And I don't know, I just felt like maybe it's just because of my own, like, unconscious

01:27:16.420 - 01:27:35.320

bias. I just feel like, I don't know if I buy—if my—like, if I have any place in that community just because my–my art isn't specifically racially charged, you know what I

01:27:35.320 - 01:27:49.290

mean? It's very—like yeah, I happen to be Asian American, and I create art. But like, I feel—I don't know if my art would be welcomed just because like it doesn't

01:27:49.340 - 01:28:07.600

talk about like, race relations or like the Asian diaspora. But I know that that's like—that's something that I have to get over. I think it's, like, I don't want to sound like I'm

01:28:07.840 - 01:28:20.960

tooting my own horn. But I think it's great that like, I'm an Asian American creating art, and like, it doesn't—the art that I create doesn't have to

01:28:20.960 - 01:28:33.940

be racially charged. I–I think like, it just like expands our repertoire as artists that happened to be of this ethnic group.

01:28:38.790 - 01:29:00.200

At this point that's all the questions I have. So is there anything else you would like to share or any final messages you would like to provide? Well, I want to thank you, Kevin, for taking the time to interview me.

01:29:00.700 - 01:29:14.080

I also want to thank the Houston Asian American Archive for including me in this project. Like–like I said, in your previous question, I felt like oh, like I–I I'm not welcome in–in

01:29:15.910 - 01:29:35.800

this—in–in like–in like these, like Asian–Asian Amer-Asian focusing projects and communities just because like, oh, like, I'm not—my work's not about being Asian. I–I really am grateful for this opportunity.

01:29:36.270 - 01:29:55.200

And I hope that like by sharing my story, that it can also make other — help other Asian Americans feel better about like their own identities and whether or not like they're totally

01:29:55.720 - 01:30:15.800

en-engrossed in like Asian culture, or like, Asian American culture, or no matter like how removed or how like involved they are good and reassured knowing that like there's no pressure for you to feel or for you to adopt

01:30:15.800 - 01:30:35.010

a certain like mentality. Just like be yourself, live your truth, and just be open to listening–listening to other people's stories, but also sharing your own I think—sharing your

01:30:35.010 - 01:30:49.370

own story no matter how isolating it may seem, or like, just like very like case specific it may–may seem, I think it is bound to resonate with someone else, maybe just one person, or several.

01:30:52.610 - 01:31:08.190

Yeah, I want to thank you, as well, for providing your oral history with us today. Um, like you said, you know it doesn't matter if you're isolated from the culture,

01:31:08.390 - 01:31:21.040

more or less, 'cause every Asian's—Asian American's experiences, you know, different and I'm sure your words will inspire, you know, future generations. So yeah, thank you.

01:31:21.920 - 01:31:22.900

Alright thank you Kevin.