00:00:03.320 - 00:00:15.110

Um, the first name is Tam, and then last name is Ngo. The last name is like a little bit hard to pronounce for most people. So it's fine if you say "No." But it's very nasally and it's like,

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"Nguh, nguh." Yeah. Ngo, ngo. Yeah. I'll just inflect— I'll just inflect the best I can, I suppose. Yeah, so,

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for the interview, I'm gonna introduce you briefly first, and then I'll, you know, start asking you questions and follow the conversation wherever it happens to go. Yeah. Any questions before we start?

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Um... I think I kind of—so generally—so this interview is for like—so the–the–the Rice University like Asian American, like the coal— coalition? And it's for like—yeah.

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Yeah. So Houston Asian American Archive. It's conducted by Rice people. Yeah, the main thing is like a collection of like oral interviews. It's just like this one.

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So, yeah, that'll be, you know, on the site directory like along with like all the other–other interviews that are available. Yeah. I think I saw like a good portion of like, oh, who's like, you know, how–how many you guys

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have? But the ones you've already put it up on the website? Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Cool. Okay. Yeah, so, today is July 5, 2021.

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My name is Josh Kim. I'm an intern at the Houston Asian American Archive. And I'll be talking with Tam Ngo, graphic designer, visual artist and art teacher currently based in Houston.

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I'm going to ask you questions in a roughly chronological order, but we'll just follow the conversation wherever it goes. So you said in your bio that you were born in Saigon in November 1996.

00:02:03.080 - 00:02:15.760

What do you remember about your early childhood in Vietnam? Um, so I was there till I was like around five. So it was like—most–most of the memories are interesting, because like some of them where I'm just like, "Oh, is this like actually

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just a dream or was like it real?" Just because like I was so young, I don't really know what was like reality versus like this like concocted memory.

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But I think like some of the—like I just, you know, I just remember riding on the back of like the scooter like with my mom. And then I remember like having like a babysitter and watching like, you know, the Chinese dramas that's dubbed in Vietnamese.

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And then like just making like little arts and crafts. And yeah, that's–that's generally what I remember. That's–that's–that's the most I can remember about my time there.

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Gotcha. And so you moved here in—when you were five in 2001. So why did your family move to the US? Um, my dad had gotten a cizi—like a citizenship

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like back in the 70’s. And then like my parents are each other's second marriages. So then like when he met my mom, and she was just like, "Oh, you know,

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there's better opportunity here than in Vietnam." So she just decided to like, "Oh, maybe it would be better to raise like a child in the US." More so than in Vietnam.

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So. Yeah, so that's why my parents had come over here. Oh, so, was your dad in the US for a while? Before— Yeah, he—I think he was in the US for a while.

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He's–he's a lot older. He's a lot older than me. And so like I—and like he was kind of like really tight-lipped about his like past in Vietnam.

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And it's like—and, you know, I didn't know what kind of kept questions I could ask him and I didn't know how to ask him. But just from like the bit–bits and pieces I've heard from my dad, like he was—I think he

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was in like a soldier in the war and maybe that was how he got like a US citizenship. But he definitely experienced it somehow, you know. And yeah, and then he—he came here with his first family and

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they–they lived in New Orleans and New Orleans—and like, he—oh, wait, they went from New York. And then he told me he was like a janitor for like one of the colleges up there, but then it was too cold, so they moved all the way down south to New Orleans.

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And then—and he's just like, "There's not enough like Viet food here." And then he like moved to Houston, because there's like a growing enclave of Vietnamese people and he just like—liked the food and the weather here are better, because it's–it's–it's hot.

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It's pretty hot down here and humid, which is like, honestly very similar to Vietnam. So yeah. Yeah. Do you have any idea which war? Um, definitely, I–I think—are–are you talking about like

00:04:59.570 - 00:05:11.660

the soldier part? Yeah, it's—it's–it's–it's—I'm–I'm so confused about that. And like he's–he's older now, so I don't even know if he remembers correctly like what was going on back then?

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I think he—he and my mom talk very like proudly of America. So like, I think they were definitely on like the Democratic side. Or like, I'm even—I'm like very not knowledgeable about what was

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going on during Vietnam War. But there are definitely like, there were South Vietnamese and so like there—and they talk very highly about the United States, because like they were the one who gave them the path to, you

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know, citizenship to like, you know, refugee status to like come over here. Oh, okay. Gotcha, gotcha. So did they meet in Vietnam? Yeah, they–they met in Vietnam.

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I think my—I think my mom said that she used to work in a coffee shop. And then my dad saw her and then—and then it just happened. Yeah. Okay, cool. So what are your parents like?

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What was your home environment like, I guess, growing up? Are there any like early memories you want to share? Yeah, I guess—I guess because we were first generation immigrants and like my dad's English wasn't

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too good. And then my mom's English was also not too good. And so like they were—I think they were always like a little bit insecure about their language abilities here. And they—I think like because like I

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was like the only child, I ended up kind of growing up as like the translator slash like secretary slash like, you know, bill payer, like, I—it's not like I was expected to, you know, make money to pay the bills, but I had to like do the translations and like all—like a lot of

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like lingo for like—that a six year old wouldn't really know, but they just kind of expected me to know? Which was like really difficult. And like now that I'm like older, and I'm like—and I have like other—I have like

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other like, you know, first generation like Viet friends as well. And like we talk about it, and we're just like—They–they think like, you know, having English is like a magic wand.

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And then you can just do anything with. Which is like—I mean like compared to like not having English, which is definitely difficult. But yeah. And yeah, I think my mom was

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like definitely worried about my school performance, because I came here with no English. But like luckily I came like when I was really young. So like kindergarten, first grade, you know, you just need to draw shapes and not know too

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much. So like luckily—like as a kid, you can absorb language a lot like easier, and there's not as much pressure to. So she was really—she was really like—she was really thankful like I did really well in

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my studies. And then with my dad like—yeah, I think–I think it was like a little bit harder with my dad, because he just expected me to do all these like things like a–apply for food stamps, or like, I don't know, like thankfully

00:08:07.140 - 00:08:16.880

not taxes, but you know, along the lines of those things. Like I'm just like, “I'm—” So paperwork? That they–that they wanted you to help them with in terms of English? Yeah, yeah.

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Just like, yeah, why can't you find somebody else? And I definitely grew up—I grew up very frustrated with it. I just kind of— Yeah. But then like you didn't—it's like as a kid, you just didn't know there was

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an another option or that you can say no. So like now as an adult, I'm like just learning those things and I'm just like, "Okay, Mom, you should go some, you know, you should go to an actual accountant if you want your taxes done and not just expect me to do it because I'm not—I

00:08:46.560 - 00:08:57.180

didn't get a degree in accounting." Like that's a whole 'nother thing. Yeah. Yeah, yeah. Gotcha. Did you have any

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difficulties adjusting when you first came to the US as a little kid? Like.... yeah, what was that like? Um, I guess I just like—I guess like as a kid, you don't really know that there's anything different.

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So then you just—I mean, I personally just kind of went with the flow. You know, when my length—I think when I was a kid, I–I grew up in a little like Vietnamese enclave. It was in—it's–it's on the southeast side

00:09:23.710 - 00:09:35.400

of Houston, kind of like on the very edge, right–right before Pasadena. And then—so there was like a little Vietnamese enclave. So, you know, I had Vietnamese friends growing up.

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So when my—I remember like I—there was like, in kindergarten, there was like a Hispanic girl I didn't really like—I don't know why we couldn't even speak the same language, but we just like knew we didn't like each other. So then we had

00:09:46.650 - 00:10:00.390

like another friend translate our like disagreements with each other. And like that was like one of the—like now I'm just like, "Oh, wow." But, you know, back then I thought it was—I thought that it was interesting. So yeah, just kind of just going with the flow.

00:10:01.860 - 00:10:17.780

Yeah. It is what it is. Gotcha. Did your mom just raise you or was she also like doing work when you were growing up? Yeah. With—I—with my mom and my dad, there–there

00:10:18.410 - 00:10:33.640

was a lot of tension about the finances. I really didn't—there–there was a lot of—I think there was just a lot of things they did. Just in regards to like really with money, like they didn't really trust each other with it. And like my dad like

00:10:33.640 - 00:10:47.280

really kept—he like kept count like almost every penny, basically. And then my mom—and then he was like always—he was always like a little like, "Oh, you know, you're always like sending money back to our relatives." And I'm just like, "Okay." I don't know like my mom was

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just like, "What are you talking about? Like, I'm not making like, $100,000 or anything, like, I'm just–I'm just like a sandwich maker." I don't know that—this is just, this is just their which I don't really want to like

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relive right now. But yeah, I think my mom was like usually really, really busy with work. Like throughout the week and like weekend. And then my dad, he was the—kind of the one like watching

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over me. So then like, you know, he used to sell video games at a flea market. So then I'd like just go with him to pawn shops and just like buy used like old like retro video games. Yeah.

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Do you remember what video games? Oh, yeah, we had—oh, sorry, I saw a possum outside my window. So we had–we had—it was like—so for Nintendo systems, it was like the super—like

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the NAS Super Nintendo, Nintendo 64, GameCube, Wii. So that was like the generations of Nintendo games. Xbox, so Xbox to

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Xbox 360. And then PS, PlayStation. So like, Playstation 123, PSP. So like I grew up with like the–the

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three lines and like those generations of like video consoles. And then like I would—I knew like a lot of like—like my favorite—one of my favorite games growing up was like

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"Grand Theft Auto San Andreas," because like I just–I just played—like he—I was like the video game tester. And I remember like he would give me like 20–25 cents per game. I would test like—I would just–I

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would just play like hundreds of video games growing up. And then Yeah, I know. Yeah, I know. Right? Oh, my God.

00:12:34.130 - 00:12:44.000

I love the—I love Vice City, too. Anyway, that's– that's another—that I don't remember much about it, but I remember liking it. So yeah, that was—it was really fun.

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But I'm–I'm still—I'm like—I'm a Nintendo girl. Like, I just—I love like Nintendo games now. Like that's—I don't really—I just invest in all those other game systems. Yeah. Those are–those are really fun times.

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I really loved Mario and like Legend of Zelda and—yeah. Are your parents more fluent in English now? Just curious. Not real—I think my–my—for my dad,

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he's like really—so he was born in 1939. So like a lot of people mistook him as my grandpa growing up. And then like now he—he's kind of like—like a couple years ago, he started like developing like dementia and like Alzhei—I–I—we don't–we

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don't have like the, you know, like prognosis or whatever. But it's–it's along the lines of like dementia. So his English never

00:13:37.260 - 00:13:53.350

really got any better. Yeah. But he—I mean, he knew things to kind of like get around and stuff. And then with my mom, she—after—she got a cosmetology salon degree. And then eventually, she

00:13:53.350 - 00:14:07.280

like kind of worked her way up, up to like get her own—like get her own salon and stuff. And she's—we've been a lot more financially well off, ever since she like finally got her salon and her business really picked up and stuff. And so yeah.

00:14:07.280 - 00:14:20.150

Her–her English has gotten a lot—my–my friends say that her English has gotten a lot better, because like I don't speak English with her, so I just—I don't know how to like compare. And then she even—I think like—I think her Spanish just gets a little

00:14:20.150 - 00:14:32.150

better too just because like her— her clientele here in Houston is like, you know, mostly Hispanics. Yeah, yeah. When was your mom born? She was born in ‘62.

00:14:33.380 - 00:14:47.430

Yeah,it's–it's–it's—I remember— Yeah, it was like a really like—like it was a three generation household and like the—not only was there like a cultural gap between like me and my parents, but then there was also the

00:14:47.480 - 00:14:59.370

generational gap between—especially like it's two generations between me my dad. So then we had like a lot of like disagreements growing up, in regards to like, you know, like what's considered like

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respectful. Like all–all–all those little things that just kind of built up. Yeah. Yeah, yeah. So I want to ask like what—I

00:15:17.120 - 00:15:31.580

guess, branching off of that, like what values or like traditions, cultural, religious, etc, like any did your parents like adhere to? And are there any that like you

00:15:31.640 - 00:15:41.820

still adhere to? Yeah, I think—that's a very broad question. Because like—I'm just like trying to review things, just kind of who— Yeah.

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Well, if—I guess, if I want to start a little bit more specifically, like, yeah, do you feel like there are any values that your parents instilled in you growing up? Yeah, I mean definitely... I guess like the–the importance of like family was one.

00:16:03.060 - 00:16:18.060

I mean I really appreciate. It–It's funny because I think with like the whole like love of family things, sometimes you have to like leave it in order to really appreciate like why family is so important.

00:16:19.430 - 00:16:31.500

So yeah, I think I understood it a lot–a lot more when like I went away for college in California and I was like away from my parents a lot. I'm just like, "Oh, you know, I really—"you know, like Vietnamese culture in

00:16:31.590 - 00:16:43.550

Houston versus Vietnamese culture in California is like very different. It's like two—it just feels like it's just another world sometimes. Even though, you know, there's like this, you know, same food and

00:16:43.550 - 00:16:58.140

language and whatnot. And then—and then like when—I–I studied abroad in Japan for about six months, in my junior year. And then like—that was a really like eye–opening experience

00:16:58.140 - 00:17:12.160

for me, because it was like, now I kind of felt like my parents like—especially my mom, like I just felt like I was like, "Oh, wow, I'm in a new country, where like all–all of my family is like not here. And then like I can barely

00:17:12.160 - 00:17:25.200

communicate in this language, like I can barely even just like shop on Amazon." And then like I—that was like difficult for me. Like, you know, how do I put in the address? Like, what, you know, when the person comes like—I missed, I missed the delivery, like,

00:17:25.200 - 00:17:33.860

have a—how do I get my delivery back? And it was just like little like things like that, where I was just like, "Oh my god, this is so difficult for just six months.

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I can't believe like, my mom like came here." And then like—and she knew she was gonna live the rest of her life here. Especially without her family by her side, because like we don't—so my family like, we—it was just us like it was just my dad, mom and

00:17:48.620 - 00:17:59.090

me. And then eventually my brother came over, but it was just like—it's very different from like—I would just—I remember being like a little jealous of like other families when—because like they would have like, it's

00:17:59.090 - 00:18:12.410

not just their like nuclear family, they had like, oh, aunts and uncles and cousins that would come over along with them. And then—but then with us, it was just us. And then it was—it's–it's–it's a lot of pressure to try to like just

00:18:12.790 - 00:18:23.480

like live off—like just–just like support ourselves. It's just like the three of us. Yeah. Yeah. So, you're the—you guys are the only ones in the US. The rest of your extended family is

00:18:23.480 - 00:18:34.360

like— Yeah, yeah. I mean, my–my brother—my brother eventually came—my brother eventually came along with like my sister–in–law and stuff. But then because my brother was the child from like my

00:18:34.360 - 00:18:47.830

mom's first marriage, like my dad—like it was—there was like a little bit of like a divide. But like between like my–my dad and that side of the family. But my—my brother and sister–in–law gave—now–now I

00:18:47.830 - 00:18:57.760

have like a nephew and niece which are growing up in America, which I–which I think is like really interesting, because they're—they're-they're—I guess, like their Vietnamese–American experience is going to be a lot different from mine.

00:18:57.760 - 00:19:12.370

And I'm interested to see how they're gonna like grow up with that. Right. Yeah. Well, how much older are your siblings? Um, my brother—okay, he was born in

00:19:12.370 - 00:19:25.170

'82. So I was born in '96. So I guess like 18—can't do math—but it's, yeah, there's like that gap. And then my–my sister–in–law like just six—it—she was born

00:19:25.170 - 00:19:38.380

in '86 or '88? So not–not too much for my brother and sister— between my brother and sister–in–law. Yeah. So, were you ever like close to them? Mmm... I'm getting—I'm getting closer to them now.

00:19:39.200 - 00:19:54.670

But it's just like because—yeah, because I grew—I basically grew up in America and I barely remember Vietnam, versus them where like—they–they live most of—they had most of their formative years and like adult years in Vietnam, so there's like a lot of like—there's still like a lot of like

00:19:54.670 - 00:20:09.950

cultural differences. And then like—like sometimes like—it's–it's interesting for me, because like their—so their Vietnamese is a lot better than mine. So then—like the way they say things is like very—I like—I would like—their tone, like I would

00:20:10.050 - 00:20:22.420

interpret it as like very like mean and rude. But then like what—but they're actually like sweet talking to each other. And I'm just like, "That's so—" like I don't understand what they're saying, and then their tone is like very

00:20:22.470 - 00:20:33.510

rude, I'm just like, "You guys are talking, complimenting? Like they're talking—you're talking nice right now?" It's like, "You guys are flirting?" I just—I don't get that. So then that kind of like cultural and like

00:20:33.510 - 00:20:47.680

language barrier kind of makes it hard to cross. But I do–I do visit them like almost every week, just because like my nephew and niece like I love like playing with them and like, you know, it's–it's easier just to play with kids for me, just because I'm like—there's no

00:20:47.680 - 00:21:03.930

expectation to like maintaining conversation—any sign—any like sort of conversation. Yeah. Was your—is your family religious at all? No, I think my mom—like she'll randomly say something about

00:21:03.930 - 00:21:12.760

like—she–she'll be very thankful to God and stuff. But then like my parents were so busy like with work. They never like—we–we never like went to church or anything like that.

00:21:13.050 - 00:21:27.110

So like, I don't–I don't—like I don't know if my mom is like Buddhist, or I–I–I think we're supposed to be Buddhists? But then like—we have the statues and stuff. But then like we never—she never really actively practiced it or like

00:21:27.110 - 00:21:39.670

in front of me. And she would just say like random—maybe she'll say a chant like randomly or like we'll definitely visit temples during the New Years. But that—so then because of that, I didn't really grow up with like much

00:21:39.730 - 00:21:50.900

religion. So that is just—I'm–I'm very like, I think agnostic is the word. It's just—I'm just— there's something, but I'm not actively like doing anything for it.

00:21:51.560 - 00:22:08.430

Gotcha. Gotcha. All right. So to what extent were you like and your family a part of Vietnamese American communities in Houston?

00:22:08.610 - 00:22:26.290

And, you know, in what ways did you feel connected to it? Or maybe distant or—yeah, how did you—how did you connect to them? Yeah. I guess, like my parents, I—I guess like they weren't really involved with like any sort of—like,

00:22:26.580 - 00:22:44.530

my—most of my memories of my parents are just like they're at work or like they're at home. There was like no organization they like actively like, you know, participated in or like brought me to events to. So like, I–I—sometimes I feel like we were like a little bit disconnected because of

00:22:44.530 - 00:22:56.390

that. But I mean, like they have—they definitely had friends, I guess. Like there are people like they—I would see them like talking on the phone to. Like that could have been like the people in Vietnam though, so I don't

00:22:56.390 - 00:23:10.050

really know. But it was really rare for me for my parents to like take me to any kind of like events outside other than like a crawfish festival and like—that was pretty much it. So yeah, I guess—I guess that was another thing

00:23:10.220 - 00:23:22.240

where I'm just like, "Oh, I wish we had more connections, so like they could have had more support." And then so like, I wouldn't have had—I wouldn't have felt so much pressure like trying to like help them and

00:23:22.580 - 00:23:37.690

like—like adjust and do things here. Yeah. Gotcha. Okay. So we've already touched on your earlier years a bit, but what was—what was grade school like for you?

00:23:40.070 - 00:23:54.120

Just like, you know, like middle school, high school. Yeah, yeah, middle school, high school. Okay, so I guess I–I moved—I moved when I was in elementary school. So I went from like a very like—like a really like

00:23:54.190 - 00:24:07.080

Vietnamese like enclave to like just like a very Hispanic community. So that was honestly a little bit hard for me just because I'm like, "Oh, you know, like—" this—it's just like—I–I didn't really feel like I could connect with

00:24:07.500 - 00:24:18.780

people. Like the–the culture is like really different, because like—oh, I would visit like a person's family but then like, you know, I didn't know I literally wouldn't know what to call like their parents. Like I would just always omit

00:24:19.060 - 00:24:33.020

something. Because like in Vietnamese we have like, "Uncle" like "Auntie" like—but then like in–in English, there's just like, oh "Miss–like–whatever," but it—that fell too–that felt too formal. So then I just

00:24:33.070 - 00:24:45.840

always just try to get their eye contact to talk to them. So that was like— that was like an interesting thing that I eventually realized. So yeah, like elementary school and middle school, I remember like—like

00:24:46.490 - 00:24:59.290

when the little directory would come out, like, "Oh, you know, here's like the census of our school" like, "Oh, it's like 80% Hispanic, like 20% black, like," what, you know, "9% white, and then like 1% Asian," and I

00:24:59.290 - 00:25:13.720

was like I knew I was like the 1% Asian. Like I was just like, "That's like .01%, but okay, you rounded up." Yeah, so that–that was–that was interesting. And like, I guess, like at some points, like I really felt that I had to

00:25:13.720 - 00:25:28.980

like live—like I mean, so I was really studious for like all of my academic career. In elementary and middle school, it came like really easy to me. So at some–at some points, I felt like—I was like I had to like keep on

00:25:29.110 - 00:25:38.370

upholding this like vision that like, you know, Asians are like super smart. And like, it's super natural for them. I mean, to be fair—I

00:25:38.370 - 00:25:52.930

mean, it felt like that—I mean, the studies are—it came really easy to me though. I mean, it wasn't too hard back then. And then eventually in high school, I went to the—I went to DeBakey High School, which–which was more medical oriented, because I–I thought I

00:25:53.670 - 00:26:03.170

would get into like a really good coll—I thought like if I went to DeBakey, and I studied like super hard. I would just like get into Yale automatically. I just—I didn't know that was like—it’s a lot harder than that.

00:26:03.570 - 00:26:13.770

But I dream. I dream. So yeah, so DeBakey—DeBakey, I returned to like the Asian enclave again. So that was–that was really

00:26:13.820 - 00:26:27.410

nice for me, 'cause there is—there's my friend group in DeBakey, there was like, it was Viets, Chinese, like Indian and like, like Cambodian, and like there was a lot more Asian people there. And then we

00:26:27.410 - 00:26:42.110

had—we shared like the same core values about like studying, which is just like study a lot. So like it was nice to have that kind of like, I guess, like group to like, I guess, like motivate me to study.

00:26:42.420 - 00:26:53.360

If I could go back though, I don't know if I would have like studied so much. So yeah, that was—that–that was like–that was—that was different. Yeah, yeah.

00:26:55.170 - 00:27:06.860

So, can you tell me about one of the first times you felt like self conscious about being either like Asian or Vietnamese? Oh, okay.

00:27:11.250 - 00:27:26.230

I think I wasn't like—it took me a long time to be like really cognizant and like, more so like, "Oh, I think like Vietnamese culture and like, you know, my Vietnamese language is something I have to like really be careful not

00:27:28.540 - 00:27:41.580

to lose." 'Cause—yeah, like I—yeah. Like, I–I didn't think that happened until like coll—like kind of later college. I think it was definitely—I'm trying to think, 'cause e–even in

00:27:41.580 - 00:27:54.610

college, even though there was like a lot of Asians there, there was very little like Viet—like in college, like the makeup was like a little bit different. Like there was a lot of international Japanese students at my

00:27:54.610 - 00:28:05.490

school. And then like maybe there's like Vietnamese international students, and then there's like Vietnamese American kids. And it was just like, r–really that–that was an interesting thing, because they spoke with

00:28:05.490 - 00:28:18.820

a different accent to the point where I like couldn't really understand them, because they spoke with like a northern accent. So yeah, that's–that's–that's—I guess like that's a—that's—it's a little bit difficult for me to answer that

00:28:18.820 - 00:28:31.180

question. 'Cause it's like it's not like one big like realization, it's like these like tiny, small moments. Just like sprinkled throughout. And then like eventually like finally like,

00:28:31.480 - 00:28:43.040

you know, like I was just like, "Oh, I wish there was like an Asian American Studies class," like, "Oh, I wish I knew more about Vietnamese culture and like history and like, why–why–why like the history is

00:28:43.040 - 00:28:56.930

like, shown that way. Like I remember in seventh grade, we were learning about US history. And then like, there was only one little section about like the Vietnamese—like the Vietnam War. And that was like the only time like my race was like—or like my ethnicity

00:28:56.930 - 00:29:07.480

was mentioned. And I was just like, "Oh, okay," and then I remember reading it and then it was so vague. Like that the section was so vague, because like I didn't know that technically like America didn't win that war,

00:29:07.480 - 00:29:20.300

and like we tactically retreated. But the—the passage was like so vague, I didn't really understand. And then when I went to Vietnam, I–I've been to Vietnam twice since I immigrated here, so one in sixth grade.

00:29:21.170 - 00:29:29.200

12 years old, that angsty teenage phase you don't remember much. I don't–don't remember much. And then I went again after my study abroad in Japan.

00:29:29.200 - 00:29:39.160

So when I was 21, so I remember a lot better. And then I saw like all these flags and I'm just like, "Isn't that the communist flag?" And then like my cousin's like, "Yeah, 'cause we're a communist country." You know, like, "What?

00:29:39.840 - 00:29:55.510

That's not how I learned it." And he's like, "You really—" I don't like—yeah. I'd like—it's just like my parents like version of like, like historical figures or like, "Oh, like Ngo Dinh Diem or something." Like he, you know, they see him as like a bad guy.

00:29:55.790 - 00:30:05.330

But then like I met this like Vietnamese like northern—like a northern Vietnamese student on study abroad. And then he like wrote about him as like one of the person he like he admires.

00:30:05.330 - 00:30:20.780

And I'm just like, "What?" And that was like super—that was like really jarring for me to learn about the differences in like—oh— Does the North–South divide, like manifest in—manifest

00:30:23.280 - 00:30:36.350

in noticeable ways? Like here, like in like Vietnamese America? Like among— Yeah. Yeah, it—because most of the Vietnamese who ended up coming to

00:30:36.570 - 00:30:47.830

America were Southern Vietnamese because like they were—like, the–the Southern side was the Democratic side. It was backed by the US. So there's a lot more like Southern Vietnamese here.

00:30:48.060 - 00:31:01.350

So then like—and then because like they left Vietnam at such a dramatic time, like their memories of like, you know, Northern Vietnamese aren't like too good. Like I think like—I see like random bits and pieces

00:31:02.000 - 00:31:14.330

where it's just like they're—I think they're still like very mistrust—like I'm talking about Vietnamese-Americans here—like they're like very mistrustful of like Vietnamese Northerners still? Like even—what do you call it?

00:31:14.570 - 00:31:29.980

I–I had a friend who was from northern Vietnam, where she came—she came to Houston to stay with like another friend, whose like family was like Southern Vietnamese. And then like because like my friends—my—because like they knew they were like Southern Vietnamese versus like Northern

00:31:29.980 - 00:31:45.680

Vietnamese, like—like behind like my friend's back, they would like say things or it's just like, "Oh, you know, you probably your mom probably like bribed like the school, so you could like, you know, come here." Or like—just like, it was like a little like,

00:31:46.100 - 00:31:53.250

"Wow, I wasn't really expecting that." Because like they're–they're really nice people. They're like super nice to me growing up. So then I was just like, "Oh,

00:31:53.390 - 00:32:11.830

wow." I just—I didn't know—I didn't know there was like that whole other side to it. Yeah, gotcha. I guess, going–going back a little bit to like—yeah, just like grade school. Where did you—where did you like to hang out?

00:32:12.550 - 00:32:24.700

What did you like to do like—like, outside of studying? Oh–oh like for—like public, like throughout public school or like elementary school? Oh, just–just–just public. Okay, just public.

00:32:25.020 - 00:32:37.320

Yeah, I mostly hung out at home, because like my parents couldn't really—the—and my–my dad was, you know, we didn't have a GPS growing up. Like, did you know, did you know—Google Maps didn't come out until like very late high school for me.

00:32:37.320 - 00:32:53.530

So then, my dad—it was very difficult for my dad to like, you know, find new places for us to like go to and stuff. So like, I think most of the days I–I–I—so the reason why I'm like very attached to like Japanese culture is because

00:32:53.530 - 00:33:05.890

like I grew up a lot with anime and like I just—I–I–I like—I think throughout most–most of elementary and middle school, I would just like find anime and manga to like read and like binge and stuff like that.

00:33:06.280 - 00:33:18.550

Like, I remember one time, I think it's like during the summer, I just like would watch anime till like 2am and stuff. And then like one day, I think I watched like 140 episodes of like Fairy

00:33:18.550 - 00:33:28.550

Tail in like four days. And I was just like, "Oh, man, this is—" yeah, so I–I–I really like attached to it. And like—oh, like anime is like one of the reasons why

00:33:28.990 - 00:33:43.660

like I'm an artist, because like I really love it.. Yeah, I saw the Sailor Moon thing in the back. Yeah, I love—oh, yeah, these—the little buns are for her. Oh, yeah. And I love—I love Sailor Moon

00:33:43.660 - 00:33:57.080

so much. Like I just draw her all the time. I've been like, "My art skills just got better." So yeah. And then in high school, I think like I—because I had to study so much, I tried to—I was like

00:33:57.080 - 00:34:06.810

super like disciplined. I was just like, "Oh, you know, you shouldn't really—" I like gave up video games for like four years because of that. And I was just like so sad.

00:34:07.790 - 00:34:15.600

Again, like I was like, "Oh, I shouldn't have studied that much. This is one of those like my regrets. I'm just like, "Damn. I should've just enjoyed life more. I don't have that youth anymore, right?

00:34:15.700 - 00:34:27.810

So yeah, I think I was like—I–I have like—it was our—I think, middle school, I had like karate. That–that was really fun. Like karate club was really nice to hang

00:34:27.810 - 00:34:42.520

out with like friends and stuff. And then high school, we would just—yeah, we would just kind of—maybe we'll find like a park and stuff or we just go to each other's houses and just kind of hang out and stuff. Yeah. Okay.

00:34:44.250 - 00:34:59.000

And with studying—your studiousness—was that like something your parents also emphasized? Or was that more like self motivation or peer motivation? I think it was a combination of the three because like my mom—my mom—my mom is

00:34:59.000 - 00:35:08.460

like very into education. Like even now she's like, "Tam, you should get a master's degree." And I'm like, "In what? Art? I'm gonna—I'm actually going to be poor in a cardboard box outside, like, what? I'm not

00:35:08.980 - 00:35:19.760

gonna do that." And like, she was like very—so I wanted to like study really hard to like make my parents like proud of me, because, you know, they work so hard. Like I wanted, you know, and they didn't—they

00:35:20.240 - 00:35:31.290

didn't make me do any like chores. It's not like they expected me, like, bring any money into the house. I was just like, "Oh, this is like, one of the things I can do, and like, I'm good at it." I'm like, you know, like,

00:35:31.290 - 00:35:47.660

"Let's–let's–let's study and like—let's just make all A's like confidently like I'm—"I have to like—there's only external validation and those A's are it." So like, that was like my whole mentality back then. And then like I, you know, my friends were also like very like,

00:35:48.450 - 00:35:58.160

super studious. Like, most of them were like in the upper like, 20 to 10% of like that school with like—like in high school, which is like very like,

00:35:59.250 - 00:36:13.220

it was like super competitive to the point where I'm just like, "Wow, this is like super toxic. Why did I endure?" Like, I would never like—I would never be able to go back into that environment, even though like I had—I proved to myself that I did that for four years,

00:36:13.220 - 00:36:23.810

like now as like an adult, I'm just like, "Wow, it's like a terrible environment. I would never go back." So yeah, like it's just—yeah, you just just had to

00:36:23.810 - 00:36:35.590

keep studying, I guess. Gotcha. Yeah. So you said that you're interested in art, a lot of that started with like all the anime

00:36:35.590 - 00:36:48.580

you're watching. So did you—I'm wondering did you also like ever take any lessons while you were growing up? Oh, for–for art, or?

00:36:48.610 - 00:36:59.170

Yeah. Yeah. At my middle school, there was like a magnet program. And it's like, it was like—it was like art and so like there—it was like art, music, you know, they're trying to get kids involved now in that stuff.

00:36:59.900 - 00:37:15.430

So yeah, I think like my–my teacher—my teacher saw potential in me. So she was like very like keen on like, "Hey Tam, you know, you should enter like a rodeo." Like this like rodeo contest. And like—like, "I think you could win like a—like good competitions

00:37:15.430 - 00:37:28.890

and stuff." And so like, yeah, I think throughout middle school and high school—and then in high school, I really latched on to art, because like it was really hard to differentiate yourself, because you're just like—it's like there are so many like super studious, super, you know, smart

00:37:28.890 - 00:37:42.760

Asians there. And like, I was—like, I was the only one—like not the only one—but like, I could really distinguish myself with my art. So I–I–I wanted to be a little, you know, I–I just—it—I

00:37:43.240 - 00:37:53.840

wanted to be like a little unique, you know? So yeah, I–I–I put a lot of myself into my art in high school as well and—yeah. Did like competitions and

00:37:53.840 - 00:38:10.750

stuff. I remember like I won—I won like—like money. And like I–I won—actually, I won like, like, a US Treasury bond, like $300. Like back in—back when I was like— in 2011, I finally cashed it out the other day.

00:38:11.490 - 00:38:21.850

And that—that was really fun. I was just like, "Oh, yay. I'm glad my little childhood self worked so hard." And then—yeah, I won iPads and like little iPods and stuff like that.

00:38:21.850 - 00:38:38.190

So it was–it was like good—it was like really like good external motivation to keep me going. Yeah. Yeah. Do you mind sharing like any like, formative learning experiences you had during that

00:38:38.190 - 00:38:52.430

time? Yeah, before college, I guess, with art? With art? It–it's like another one of those things where it's just like, it's a little by little. Like, you know, I would like practice with like different mediums like, "Oh, here's—today we're doing sculpture

00:38:52.430 - 00:39:05.480

stuff." And like, "Today, we're doing watercolor and like pencils," and I'm just like, "Okay, yay." It's just all fun to me, like art, it's just all fun. So, it–it–it, you know, and art is one of those skills you just

00:39:05.830 - 00:39:19.790

constantly like—maybe you have talent for it, but then you just have to like—you have to consistently develop it in order to like get better and like develop like new things for it. Right, right. Yeah.

00:39:22.320 - 00:39:37.120

How did your—how did your parents feel about your like interest and like desire to do art? They thought it was cute. I don't know. I–I managed to keep up my studies so it never like, you know, it's not like, "Oh, you focus too much on art, you're like failing the other class"

00:39:37.910 - 00:39:48.750

never. Oh, I wish my life was a TV drama. But no, it was never like that. They just—they didn't—I don't think they really understood it. Even now I think my—my–my mom is like—one of the reasons

00:39:48.780 - 00:39:57.850

why I'm an–I'm an artist today is because my mom was like very supportive. Like, she doesn't understand why I really—I do art so much, but she just wants me to be happy.

00:39:58.040 - 00:40:09.850

And she sees me like, you know, as an artist, I can be happy. So then she's, you know, pretty chill with it. And she like, you know, supports me and stuff. And–and then with my dad, he—I think like—I want to

00:40:09.850 - 00:40:23.770

say honestly after—after I grew up, like after I reached like my teenage years, I feel like he just kind of like stopped trying to like understand me or like, you know, 'cause as a kid like it's really easy to like, "Oh,

00:40:23.770 - 00:40:37.360

hey, what do you want? Toys and food." And so like that was really easy for him to like give me. But then like as like a teenager, you know, like it–it–it's a lot more difficult like emotionally and like all that other

00:40:37.540 - 00:40:51.370

stuff. Like he just didn't really know. Like as a—like a father, he just didn't really know what he could do. And he just—I mean, maybe he tried in his own way. I don't–I don't really—I can't really think about it

00:40:51.370 - 00:41:03.140

right now, but it's just—yeah, it—he was like very just—he was just kind of there and not like, "Oh, he's super supportive of my art" or anything. It was just like "Okay, that's what you do.

00:41:03.230 - 00:41:20.670

Alright. And?" Yeah. Okay. Alright, so could you tell me about your time at the Soka University? Like, when you started college, like

00:41:22.140 - 00:41:34.420

what did you–what did you enjoy about it? Like what was tough for you? Etc? Yeah, I think Soka University—so all that studying paid off. I got—I had gotten a full ride to like a

00:41:34.420 - 00:41:42.780

school in like Southern California. That's like–that's like—it was like the dream, right? It was like—that—I mean, that was my dream. To like get out of Houston.

00:41:42.780 - 00:41:54.790

You know, be close to the beach and stuff. And yeah, I think— I mean, still—it's still—up to like today, it's been two years, officially two years since I graduated.

00:41:55.030 - 00:42:09.850

I–I–I–I miss it, but it's not like—I–I know that like it's not like I wanted to—even when I was like graduating, it's not like I wanted to like, you know, extend it by another year, another year. Like, I knew–I knew it was really good, because you knew it was gonna end.

00:42:09.920 - 00:42:22.870

And so yeah, I think college is really fun. There was like a lot of like emotional growth and like a lot of like that kind of stuff. I mean, like—so–some of the stuff like I–I cringe on like just remembering like, "Oh—," like

00:42:22.870 - 00:42:36.350

how I acted or like, you know, how I, you know, the kind of things I said to my friends. But I'm just like, "Oh, you know, sometimes you just—" I was doing like a meditation like routine where it's just like, "Oh, you know, you know, thank your past self for

00:42:36.350 - 00:42:45.090

being who she was, because like that's–that's who she needed to be in order to like get through whatever that stuff was. I'm just like, you know what? Yeah, okay, I gossiped a bit too much.

00:42:45.140 - 00:42:55.940

But you know, I–I–I–I'm, that's—that was just who I am—who I was, you know. And now–and now I try not to gossip too much. But Soka was like what, it only 400 kids.

00:42:56.240 - 00:43:13.490

And then there is—there was like a 40% international population. And it was mostly Japanese because Soka—it's not a religious school, it really tries to emphasize that, but it was built on like Buddhist principles that like—of like a Buddhist sect that like originated from

00:43:13.520 - 00:43:24.430

Japan. And then the 60% was like domestic kids. And it was like whites, not too many Hispanics, a lot–a lot of Asians, and like not

00:43:24.490 - 00:43:38.170

too many black students. So yeah, it was a very interesting mix up. And yeah, I mean, I really liked it, because it was really nice to be able to like live and like study with like friends and

00:43:38.170 - 00:43:49.410

like the–the professors were like really supportive as well. And I mean, it was California, like before the fire. So it was–it was

00:43:49.410 - 00:44:02.780

really nice. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Well... I remember you saying like Vietnamese like Americans like over like where you

00:44:02.780 - 00:44:16.590

were in California is like very different from back in Houston. So like what are—what were some of those differences? Yeah, you know, my–my friend and I discussed it and we think because Vietnamese Americans have

00:44:16.630 - 00:44:30.650

been there longer, and because there was also like a longer and greater influence of Chinese Americans in California as well, like there—it–it was—like it kind of—there was more ground and like a bigger

00:44:30.650 - 00:44:47.900

foundation for Vietnamese Americans to like, establish themselves a lot more. And like, you know, they have, you know, like there's so many like rates, like restaurants in Asia, there's like a—sorry, not Asia—in California. A lot of like the—there's like, you know,

00:44:47.900 - 00:45:03.890

that K–pop dance group that came over there. Like there's so much like—especially like young culture, like young like Asian culture, like, like thriving over there. Like, it–it's just, it was really, you know, fun to be like

00:45:04.230 - 00:45:21.370

a young, like Asian American there. But then in Houston, my friend and I think there's —Houston has newer ways of Vietnamese American immigrants. So then like we're—as first generation, we're still focused on

00:45:21.370 - 00:45:34.080

like survival, you know, like we're still focused on trying to like build our roots. Our roots are just so new. Like there's not, you know, a lot of like first generation—the reason why a lot of

00:45:34.080 - 00:45:45.060

first generation parents want their kids to be like, "Oh, doctors and lawyers," because like, you know, there's–there's a lot more like money, meaning stability there. So then, you know, the parents don't have to worry as much.

00:45:45.210 - 00:45:59.460

And so like—yeah, and then like here, there's not like—a lot of like the Viets here are like older, so then it's just like, you know, again like that generational gap. So then you just can't really—it's–it's harder to like relate to them, and like

00:45:59.500 - 00:46:10.660

explain, like, "Oh—" like the social—like there's no—there's so—the social movements are different, like the value and like core values are a lot different here in Houston. Because again, I think I'm just—just

00:46:10.660 - 00:46:21.420

speaking again, just for Vietnamese. Some–sometimes I think of like all Asians, but like, I guess, I just heard like the Viets here like—we're still just—we're still trying to survive. Like we're still in that

00:46:21.420 - 00:46:37.990

survivorship mi–m–mindset? So yeah, but I mean at least–at least the food is really good here. Yeah it is. Yeah. So what do you think was the most like valuable

00:46:38.740 - 00:46:54.110

thing you got out of your studies in college? ... It’s really nice to have friends . That was––I–I don't know, like, I guess because I'm

00:46:54.110 - 00:47:11.390

not really planning to pursue, like, a–a––more education, you know, I'm not planning to, as of right now, I'm not really planning to pursue a Master’s until like, I don't know, scholarship is free forever. And then, yeah, honestly, the thing I got most

00:47:11.390 - 00:47:26.010

out of my college education was just like–like the people there. Like, you know, I–I had like a really close relationship to like, a lot of like, the professors and like the––like the staff there as well, because I would––I worked as like an IT tech.

00:47:26.140 - 00:47:38.120

So then I would be able to, like, meet a lot of people and then like, around campus, and then for graphic design, I had––you know, I was very close to like the graphic designer of like–like the creative team––I've said

00:47:38.140 - 00:47:48.570

that as well. And then like, with friends and stuff, like I had a lot of good, like cool friends. And it's–it's kind of hard like, because like my–my roommate was Korean.

00:47:48.570 - 00:48:00.140

And she's like, back in Korea now. And it was just––it–it–it. So like, the day I graduated, I basically like––it felt like I lost all of my friends. And then like––it like the

00:48:00.390 - 00:48:11.470

tra-like the trauma, like honestly, like, I didn't think of it as like a traumatic experience until like, most recently, where I'm just like––I'm here in Houston now, I'm honestly I–I have like a very––it's–it's very

00:48:11.470 - 00:48:22.560

difficult to make friends here. Like, at–at least like outside of school and like work, like you would have to like, you know, at college, you see people like every single day, eventually that sense of familiarity is just

00:48:22.560 - 00:48:33.160

kind of like––it's just around you and you're just like comfortable with them. But here, like in Houston for me, like as an art teacher, like I just meet people like constantly, but they're not the same group of people.

00:48:33.160 - 00:48:47.500

Like they're just always changing. And then like my co-like co-for coworkers, it's hard to build like––I'm trying still to build better relationships with them, but then like, you know, there's–there's an age difference and like you know, we don't usually work the

00:48:47.500 - 00:48:57.810

same shifts and then it's–it's hard. You know, we don't––it's not like we eat lunch together every single day like, oh, maybe we randomly see each other every other week and talk five minutes as we like,

00:48:59.240 - 00:49:11.490

clean some––clean up some brushes and stuff. So yeah, I–I really like honestly, for Soka like the very––the most–the most that I got out of it like was just–was just the––like the relationships that I had with everyone.

00:49:12.590 - 00:49:28.240

And yeah. I mean, have you been able to maintain any of those relationships? My friend––I have a good childhood friend who like––we met in like kindergarten, like, we're–we're

00:49:28.240 - 00:49:39.460

just like both Houstonians and like, you know, we went–we went to the same elementary school and high school and college. And she's––and she also like came back to Houston as well.

00:49:39.530 - 00:49:50.270

And so like, I–I maintain that relationship pretty regularly like, we talk––it's–it's nice. It's nice like growing with each other because like, you know, there–there–there was like a––there was sometimes it's difficult because

00:49:50.270 - 00:50:04.410

like as childhood friends you have like an image of each other. So then it's–it's sometimes it feels like uncomfortable to like change yourself because like, oh no, I have to maintain that, like, nostalgic image of myself, but now like––I feel like we're––we've reached an age where we're just

00:50:04.410 - 00:50:18.260

like, oh no you know it's––and like and self-discovery where we're like, it's okay to like, grow up. And like, change with each other. And then she–she and I were like, very similar in regards to like our

00:50:18.560 - 00:50:34.160

like our cognisance like and like awareness of like Vietnamese culture where like she–she really––so for her–her––what she wants to do is to build up like she–she works with OCA right now and she like helps like

00:50:34.200 - 00:51:01.960

the... You just froze up for me –– ... Yeah, you're frozen for me right now. Why don't––you think you could try disconnecting and coming back on?

00:51:19.540 - 00:51:31.860

Hey. Yeah. It just cut off. It just cut off. Yeah. Oh it just––it was just––it just cut off. But yeah–yeah–yeah I–I think I don't know how–how much it

00:51:31.860 - 00:51:43.860

cut off on, but I was just talking about my friend who– Oh, yeah. Could you––I think if you could start again from like, you said she's working for OCA? Is that what you said?

00:51:48.450 - 00:52:04.550

Oh, it happened again. Okay, all right. You're back. Okay. Hello. Okay. So my friend works with OCA and like her goal is to just connect

00:52:04.550 - 00:52:20.850

with other Asian youth and social issues that you know, we currently face. And then for me, I–I want to just create like, very beautiful Vietnamese art and just share,

00:52:21.150 - 00:52:52.840

like Vietnamese appreciation and like–– mean to be like–– Cutting out again? Oh, no.

00:52:55.560 - 00:53:16.270

Let's see. Give me one second. All right. Yeah, sure.

00:53:22.120 - 00:53:49.480

Connected. Okay. Can you hear me? Is it––is the connection more stable? I can–I can hear you.

00:53:49.750 - 00:54:02.690

I think the video might still be a little bit laggy but I think that's Not as big of a deal. I think you're stabilizing right now. Yeah. Sorry about the hassle.

00:54:03.360 - 00:54:17.990

Yeah, no–no problem I yeah–– Yeah–yeah. Okay, so, I think––well I–I think I got the main gist of like, what both of you are––do so I think we're–we're good there.

00:54:18.540 - 00:54:34.800

Okay. So let's see. So you moved back to Houston after school? I remember you said in your bio for financial and family reasons. Can you elaborate on that a little bit?

00:54:35.200 - 00:54:47.970

Yeah, it's, I mean, it's–it's a lot cheaper to live here. Just like with rent and like, I mean, so for me because like, my–my mom doesn't make me pay rent. So then I'm just like, okay.

00:54:48.710 - 00:55:04.850

You know, I thought it would be better to just––like, right now I'm working on trying to, like, establish myself like, as an artist, so like, I'm trying to, like, gro-it's just very hard, but you know grow–grow a following. I'm trying to improve my, like, artistic skills, and just create, like, a breadth

00:55:05.490 - 00:55:20.880

of portfolio to eventually just, you know, have something to show people. Like something I'm, like, you know, really proud of and then–and then with my–with my dad–with my dad, like, I guess,

00:55:21.050 - 00:55:34.390

like, right after college, his dementia, like, we just––when I came back, like his dementia was just like, really, really, really bad. And so then we had to, like––we had to just basically deal with it, like, the first year–the first year out of college was like, really

00:55:34.730 - 00:55:49.030

difficult for like family reasons. Because, like, it was just a lot of the stuff––like, we were, like I had avoided by going to California, eventually, just like came back out. The rug is too full now.

00:55:49.940 - 00:56:02.480

But yeah, I mean, now–now, like two years out, like I'm––you know, I'm very happy with where I am, where I'm just like, you know, what I'm––I––I'm not someone who can work 40 hours a week, like, I realized that like,

00:56:02.480 - 00:56:16.410

I'm just like, this is just too much, I don't have the mental, physical or like emotional energy to work that much. So then I'm right now––I mostly make my income with being a part time like art teacher, as like––at a

00:56:16.410 - 00:56:32.200

paint and sip place. So then, you know, I make enough money to just cover like, the bills that I have. And then–and then I still have a lot of time to just––to–to work on my art to work on, you know, learn marketing and stuff like that, and then learn

00:56:32.610 - 00:56:43.630

adulting skills like cooking. And like cleaning regularly, which is very hard. Um, and I'm–I'm I've been branching more into music these past

00:56:44.320 - 00:56:55.090

couple of years. Like I-I'm, I learned––I'm learning the piano, and I just pay––I'm just––I'm also learning the guitar as well. So it's just like, oh yay, I'm just––I'm super into–I'm super into art stuff.

00:56:55.600 - 00:57:05.800

And, yeah, and I've always–I've always been––I've always also always really been into theater and acting. So like, I think things are starting to pick up now.

00:57:05.840 - 00:57:19.560

I–I just got a like––it's–it's like, you know, it's–it's indie. But I-I'm, like, the leading actress in li–a current, like TV show, they're trying to produce and they're trying to put on like, you know, Amazon Prime and like, and–and–and stuff like that.

00:57:19.560 - 00:57:33.300

And it's just like––it's–it's just fun. Like, I was like oh yay––I'm like––I'm young and like––so I, you know at some points I feel like I'm just kind of––I’d like to have fun right now because, like, I feel like I'm making up for all the time that I just spent studying

00:57:34.080 - 00:57:47.240

back when I was like, in high school and in college, so I'm just like, you know, what Tam, it's chill. Like, let's–let's–let's find, like, let's just––let's find, like, different like that, you know, core values and like, different level––like different

00:57:47.590 - 00:57:57.980

sources of like validation. Like, you know, you can be like internal and like, you know, I don't have to constantly yearn for like ‘A’ grades to define myself and like define existence.

00:57:59.900 - 00:58:11.090

So yeah. Okay, gotcha. How's your relationship with your family changed? You know, since you were younger––since you came back.

00:58:12.690 - 00:58:24.590

I think the relationship on my mom is a lot better now. Because, like, I think before, when I was like–like, I remember talking to like, my therapist, and I was just like, because like, I had so much, I felt

00:58:24.590 - 00:58:36.310

like I had so much responsibility growing up, or like, I had to, like, do all these––do all this, like translation and like, it–it it's not just trans––it's like, translation seems like so simple, but it was––it's just

00:58:36.310 - 00:58:48.190

like–like, even when my dad was like, had dementia, like I had to, like, try to find like nursing homes for him. And it was just, it was so overwhelming, especially as like someone who's like, so young, like having

00:58:48.240 - 00:59:03.980

like an elderly father to care for, because I was just like, man, my friends are not worrying about this shit. Like they're–they're just–they're just being in their 20’s and, you know, doing other stuff, like why do I have to––I–I felt like––I–I remember saying to my therapist, I

00:59:04.000 - 00:59:15.580

was just like, I felt like my parents just like had me like they–they only just see me as like someone who like solves their problems and like that's–that's like all they see me for and then my current therapist was like, I really hope you don't think

00:59:15.580 - 00:59:30.590

that you know like I'm pretty sure your parents like really appreciate you for like you know, you as you and–and as like their daughter and not you know someone who just does things for them. And I was just like, okay, yeah, and––you know, I'm––I–I

00:59:30.840 - 00:59:45.380

appreciate like my mom a lot more and like, I–I still my–my–my fa-my relationship with my father is like a lot still––it's still––it's really strained and not strained, but it's like I'm trying to come to like a level of–of acceptance

00:59:46.670 - 01:00:01.740

where I'm just like, you know, like he––you–you know, with that whole, like the phrase like, he did do his best, but it still wasn't enough at times, but I had to just, you know, just have to kind of accept it as it was. And like, with his dementia, and

01:00:01.740 - 01:00:16.470

like his whole, like, mental health, like, you know, a lot of the things he said, was because of that, and it wasn't like–like I–I took it a lot, personally, a lot of things he said when I was growing up, but now I'm just like, it's––you just have to remove me––I–I just have to remove

01:00:16.510 - 01:00:32.420

myself from like the––I-I'll try not to think of it as like a personal attack. So yeah. So could you tell me a little bit about what do you do for painting with a twist

01:00:32.800 - 01:00:45.410

for teaching? Yeah. And what have you–what have you learned from, you know, teaching art? Teaching art? So like for me, I have really–really–really great people skills.

01:00:46.030 - 01:00:58.560

It's just one of those things that––I'm–I'm really good at communicating, because I just––I–I know what questions to ask people to just kind of, like, distract them for like––my–my main goal with like teaching a class is not to

01:00:58.560 - 01:01:13.490

like––it's–it's not for them to like, have like, the perfect painting at the end of the day. Because that's–that's hard. That's like, really, really hard. Because like, the levels you judged yourself on is just like, ugh, it's just it's–it's really hard to like perf-you know, reach that sort of like perfectionism.

01:01:13.630 - 01:01:27.360

And like, I know that because I am an artist myself, so then I just, you know, I try to approach it more like, oh, hey, you know, this is like––this is just more so like, therapeutic. Like, none of your problems exist outside of this canvas.

01:01:27.420 - 01:01:40.600

And like, you know, for even–even it's just for like, these moments, like, let's just forget about it. And like, I tried to like––I tried to like talk to them, just like hey, you know, where did you––did you grow up in Houston, or like?

01:01:41.150 - 01:01:54.140

Just like asking like, little questions to like learn more about them, and then people love to talk. And I'm–I'm luckily I'm like, I'm, I have like a lot of patience as a listener, because like, you know, I–I truly find their

01:01:54.140 - 01:02:06.960

stories like very interesting. And–and I also like to talk myself, so it's–it's good quid pro quo. So yeah, and so that's–that's how I usually just run my classes more just like conversations and like, and of course I

01:02:06.960 - 01:02:19.790

help if they need help. Like with painting and stuff. Yeah–yeah. Cool. So you're also working as––just like freelance artist right now as well.

01:02:20.590 - 01:02:33.550

Yeah–yeah, tell me about that. So as a freelance artist, I––when so––when you say graphic designer I'm actually––I don't know why I–I don't think I have said that but I–I used to do that.

01:02:33.700 - 01:02:46.730

I don't really do that anymore. Because I–I–I–I don't––I reali-I tried it out a couple times. Like, I did a couple commissions for people. But then I realized that like, I don't really have the patience to like, do things

01:02:46.860 - 01:02:58.770

for people exactly how they want it. Like I just––it–it–it takes so much patience and like, honestly, sometimes coddling for them to like, because, you know, they don't know what like, looks good.

01:02:59.060 - 01:03:14.530

Like, and then you have to like, subtly, like, almost, like, manipulate them to into like, thinking that like–like cause I mean my work is good. I believe that my work is good. But then like, the–the whole beauty is in the eye of the beholder thing that's very,

01:03:14.870 - 01:03:33.380

very subjective. And that's––and I just didn't have the patience and to, like, get other people to like, come meet me to where I was. So I was like, you know what, this isn't–this isn't when andwhere I want to be like, I have the skills but I just don't have the patience in order to make this a

01:03:33.700 - 01:03:50.700

profit––profitable skill. And I was like, okay, so then now I mostly just––I'm–I'm drawing. What I'm trying to do is make really, really cool art prints of anime, and then sell them on Etsy.

01:03:50.750 - 01:04:02.430

So that's like, my, that's–that's been my current goal right now just to like, hey, let's just–let's just make let's–let's just make make–make this like my main thing. So I'm just––yeah, every day I spend a couple hours––I

01:04:02.890 - 01:04:17.310

spend like half of my work time drawing stuff and like creating new content, and the other half is like marketing. So like, Instagram, Tik Tok, Facebook, like let's learn about marketing. And then eventually, I hope to like at least with the marketing part, like I hope to like

01:04:17.310 - 01:04:30.200

hire it out. And–and just like––so I don't have to––so I could focus more on my art and then I'm trying so––since I think like the past month I've been work––or two months, I've been working so much on anime, I'm just like,

01:04:30.200 - 01:04:41.160

damn, I thought you said you want us to create like Vietnamese art and so like this–this week, I'm trying to like, it's–it's hard to like––I'm trying to like bounce back to like other stuff, but just yeah. Yeah! Yeah, yeah.

01:04:42.320 - 01:04:57.780

So, yeah, I mean I saw in your bio that the anime and like the Vietnamese art are the things you're working on right now. With the like anime stuff like, are you mainly

01:04:58.990 - 01:05:10.130

rendering like pre–existing like characters and designs? Do you Or do you more generally from the aesthetics or like, yeah, how do you––what do you do? Let me–let me show––I–I think it's–– let me show you some.

01:05:10.130 - 01:05:49.590

Sorry. It's easier explained. Right, right, right. So one––a series I'm working on right now is called––it's for My Hero Academia, which is like,

01:05:49.860 - 01:06:02.560

super popular right now. And it's like astrology is also like a really big thing. So I combined the two where I'm just like, I'm creating little Zodiac cards for My Hero. So they're like Deku, he's cancer.

01:06:02.560 - 01:06:11.590

Tomura kun. He's like my prince . So he's– he's Gemini. And then like, Bakugo is Aries and then Froppyis Aquarius.

01:06:11.590 - 01:06:23.730

So yeah. I'm just like I really–I really think this is going to be popular–popular with the kids. That sounds like––I'm just like, oh, I'm just trying to vibe them. But yeah, I've been trying to market these a lot on like Tik Tok and Instagram.

01:06:24.090 - 01:06:39.880

And so I'm just like, I–I sold–I sold Todorokithe other day, and I'm trying to––anime–anime conventions are coming back. So I'm trying to create enough to like, fill up like a––an artist alley table and just try to like, run

01:06:39.880 - 01:06:50.900

the convention circuit like that. And then yeah so that's like, I try––I work on the popular animes. And then like, I really like this anime called Gintama. And there's like––he's Hijikata is like one

01:06:50.900 - 01:06:59.660

of my favorite characters. And so like, I just, yeah, I try to draw a lot of like, stuff–stuff for him. But I–I know that's when––that's not where the money is. But that's where my heart is.

01:06:59.660 - 01:07:10.800

So I just, you know, so stuff like that. . And then yeah, I know. And then for BTS––my friend is like super into BTS. So I've–I've drawn like a couple of like fan art for

01:07:10.800 - 01:07:21.170

her. So then I was just like, oh, yeah, I could just make money of this––BTS is also popular, but I mean I–I love Kpop too, but I love anime. Like so I––it's just my heart is like a lot bigger for anime and then it's

01:07:21.170 - 01:07:30.330

just like, oh Kpop like K-dramas. And I––I'm actually gonna––I'm gonna start learning Korean in–in about a–a week or two. So I'm really excited for that.

01:07:30.760 - 01:07:43.660

So I have–so I have English Vietnamese, Japanese, and a little bit Spanish. So then Vietname–so Korean is gonna be like my fifth one. So I'm just like, yay, I'm like, kind of fluent in like five languages. Barely you know? So that's––that will be a

01:07:44.030 - 01:07:59.640

fun thing. Okay that's cool. That's cool. Yeah, yeah. Isn't––well I know this is I guess true variably––generally like across East and Southeast Asia, but like , I mean, you know,

01:07:59.640 - 01:08:15.330

one of the first kind of waves of international pretty popular culture like that definitely––was it like––wasn't as a big thing in Vietnam, right? Are you talking about the–the Haoyu ?

01:08:15.620 - 01:08:30.370

Yeah, honestly, I watched this––I watched this Vietnamese movie the other day and then like, I think–I think Viet-Vietnamese they––I–I want to say they see like Koreans like hi-pretty highly in pop

01:08:30.370 - 01:08:36.990

culture and like fashion and stuff. Because like, there was like a grandma there. She was like at the makeup salon. She's like, oh, make me

01:08:36.990 - 01:08:52.680

look like I'm Korean. I'm just like, oh, like that's––I–I just I didn't know. Again, this is like Vietnamese in Vietnam. And so cause if you like live here–– like, over here, it's–it's like a different amalgamation of like a lot of stuff, like, it's just like,

01:08:52.680 - 01:08:59.310

oh, I have a friend who really likes like, Chinese novels. And like–like Chinese like TV shows. And then my other friend really likes like Korean

01:08:59.940 - 01:09:11.780

culture. And then I really like anime. And so it's just like––but then we also like a little bit of all three, you know? So it's like a––like I can –I can speak more truly to that. And I'm just kind of guessing what's going over there in Vietnam.

01:09:11.780 - 01:09:22.430

Yeah, yeah. So in terms of Vietnamese popular culture, that's not something that like you're as familiar with? Yeah, I don't. The thing––I don't know.

01:09:22.430 - 01:09:33.100

Like I've been trying. I listened to some like Vietnamese like pop and–and that kind of stuff. Yeah. I'm–I'm–I'm trying to listen to more of that. But it's––I guess it's –it's

01:09:33.100 - 01:09:47.330

harder for me because like, so this–this is like––so I kind of trained myself to like, not understand Vietnamese. Because like when I was growing up my parents lectured me a lot so then I learned how to

01:09:47.330 - 01:09:58.620

just zone out. And so that–that was–that was a bad mistake, now. That's a horrible––but I mean I didn't want to listen to––who wants to listen to like, oh Yeah.

01:09:58.620 - 01:10:16.100

And so I just found out and so now, that means like, if other people were talking to me in Vietnamese, I just––I kind of like––I've lost the ability to like consc-I have to like really––I try––I have to try super,

01:10:16.100 - 01:10:28.400

super, super hard. And that was like, yeah, and you know, it's not just my parents lecturing me, but like, oh, they would put like the Vietnamese radio on, they would put like Vietnamese like shows on and like, I just–I just

01:10:28.400 - 01:10:38.480

process––I was like, this is noise, I don't need to process this. But like my parents, yeah, my parents. I don't know what it is about Asian parents. They talk so loud on the phone,

01:10:38.480 - 01:10:49.240

they think––I don't know––I don't think they understand what technology is like they just –they really think they're trying to shout across the ocean. So then they talk so loud in the house. So then I had to learn how to ignore that too.

01:10:49.680 - 01:11:01.290

So then like that's–that's why it's really hard for me to get back into Vietnamese like media––like I'm just like, oh, why don't I try to watch like, a Vietnamese drama or something. And then it's just like––it's just–it's just noise to me.

01:11:01.890 - 01:11:13.450

And yeah, eventually I think after Korean I'm going to try to learn––I'll try to take like Vietnamese classes within these cultural centers to try to like amalgamate that you know, really bad issue.

01:11:14.070 - 01:11:32.000

That's gonna be hard. Yeah, I see. I see. All right. Oh, and so for the Vietnamese art that you're doing? Like, what are you depicing-depicting––is it like landscape?

01:11:33.520 - 01:11:45.480

Like what is it? Yeah, I do a lot of landscapes art. So that's–that's one over there. That's–that's Halong Bay. Another one? Do I have it here?

01:11:47.740 - 01:12:01.590

Yeah, I've–I've been trying to I–I did want to do this one thing where like, I wanted to do Vietnamese fairytales and draw like, basically children's illustrations for it. But then I realize

01:12:02.330 - 01:12:17.350

I do not have––I currently do not have the discipline, or the patience for it at–at this current moment. So like, I'm just trying to do like, one–one off stuff. I did this––I did an illustration on the other––the other

01:12:17.350 - 01:12:27.070

day that was––that kind of sells a bit on Etsy, which is really proud of and it's just like Vietnamese––so I really liked the Vietnamese . So Vietnamese there, and then for, you know,

01:12:27.350 - 01:12:40.330

it was Lunar New Year––for Lunar New Year, it's like the year of the ox, so then I–I drew an ox and stuff. And I want to say like, I think the next–the next piece I'm trying to work on is just––it–it like a–a self

01:12:40.330 - 01:12:55.160

portrait of myself as a child. So then just like––I really want to do like a very, like artsy painting, like of one of my childhood pictures when I was like, in–in the grasslands back in the day. That's cool.

01:12:55.330 - 01:13:13.860

Yeah. All right. So I'm wondering––I feel like you've definitely touched on this a bit, but like–like, what are your so-like some of your favorite like–like

01:13:14.440 - 01:13:32.380

artists or like works of art, you know? Yeah... I guess just like for artists it's just usually like Japanese like mangakas, like manga I do––I really like––I–I try to

01:13:32.760 - 01:13:47.200

attend like a lot of––I really like those exhibits–– there's–there's–there's one person from like, I think her name was like Kusama or something I forgot. But she's like this old Japanese lady and she just created like really funky installations.

01:13:47.200 - 01:14:01.750

There was like––there's like this infinity mirror and she put lights in it and I'm just like I–I really want to recreate that in like my garage and then just like go meditate there. I feel like you just enter a different realm of existence when you do that.

01:14:01.750 - 01:14:15.880

So that's one of my favorites. And I'm trying to follow more––find other like Vietnamese American or just like Vietnamese artists on Instagram. So like I'm–I'm thinking of so-ike, I don't know if I forgot, like, I think her name was

01:14:15.880 - 01:14:29.380

like Bao Pham or something. She–she creates really nice, like illustrations that goes––it's very like natury like surrealist. That's really nice. So yeah, yeah.

01:14:30.260 - 01:14:43.290

Yeah, yeah. Cool. Who are some of your favorite like mangaka like artists? Mangaka? Oh, for Sailor Moon Naoko Ta-Takeuchi. Oh she's like––I mean she's like, the progenitor

01:14:43.930 - 01:14:56.340

like, she's just––she created. She––She's seems like the star of everything for me. So I like––I–I really like appreciate her like a lot. I think she––her–her art was just––her art's is really amazing.

01:14:56.420 - 01:15:14.010

And I–I love her like the–the fashion that inspired her works as well. So yeah, that's one. Ku-Kubo sensei from Bleach. He's–he's–he's very poetic, like, his works are––his work––it–it got

01:15:14.010 - 01:15:23.870

really––Bleach by the end of it got really religious. But like, through-through-throughout the beginning and middle, it was very––there were like these very poetic scenes.

01:15:24.170 - 01:15:40.160

And I was just like, wa-it was just like the words, ev-everything was like, it was just really nice. I really like that. And then whatchamacall it––I really like My Hero Academia, the–the art style is very like–like very–very actiony and

01:15:40.160 - 01:15:50.320

very powerful. So I really like Horikoshi sensei's work as well. Yeah, yeah. Cool. So you––I

01:15:51.550 - 01:16:07.890

think you mentioned music and language learning. Can you tell me––yeah, can you tell me a bit whatever––like whatever else a bit more about your life and hobbies outside of, you know, outside of art.

01:16:08.550 - 01:16:20.960

Yeah, so I–I thought it was important for me, like for–for music. I really didn't want a hobby I could, like monetize? Because like it was because there's so much pressure, like it's honestly a lot of

01:16:20.960 - 01:16:33.070

pressure because like every art piece I do, I'm just like, how can I make money of it, you know, off of it, like I have to like––and it's––and honestly it kind of removes the joy at some points. But then with music, it's,

01:16:33.280 - 01:16:45.110

especially with guitar right now, it's really great to see the progress, like I could really acknowledge the progress because like, at first like my fingers are like very weak, and so like I could barely like the C chord

01:16:45.110 - 01:16:56.230

was like a huge thing to like, get through. But now I can like play it, I play it half time, which is like a lot better. My fingers don't hurt so much anymore, it doesn't feel like they're about to bleed. So I can see like the progress there.

01:16:56.950 - 01:17:10.850

And then I really like–I really like singing and like I love you know, singing my anime songs and like all the you know, all the songs nowadays. And then just, you know, just being able to create that music that comes out of it. Like, it's just like, it's–it's very satisfying to me.

01:17:11.240 - 01:17:23.270

And then like to know that this hobby of mine, again, isn't for money, but it's just simply in like enjoyment of like existence and like in myself. It's just a very––it's a very, like freeing experience.

01:17:24.220 - 01:17:33.760

So I try–I try to practice it a lot. And like just, you know, I think–I think one day I think I told–I told my like guitar teacher, I'm just like, I actually––I you know, I'd

01:17:33.760 - 01:17:47.790

actually eventually––when I feel like I'm ready, like I want to start making––I actually want to start writing songs. Especially like––I want to do like, I want to dedicate one song for like, all the like the Asian––Asians who are like studying really hard in high school right now.

01:17:47.790 - 01:17:56.820

Like, I really want to do a song for them. Because I'm just like it's okay. Like, I really want to remind them because like, back in high school, I literally thought like, this was it like, oh my god, I have to study

01:17:56.820 - 01:18:11.480

so hard. And then like , you know, like this is the only path that guarantee-guarantees me happiness and success and instability. And then like, honestly, when I graduated college, and I, you know, I was just like, holy frickin moly, I got–I got like a bachelor's degree.

01:18:11.560 - 01:18:25.020

Okay, I'm gonna apply for a job and at the very least, they're gonna pay me $15 an hour, and I'm gonna have health benefits. That was a lie because like oh my god job hunting is like one of the wor-It's one of

01:18:25.020 - 01:18:38.760

the most demoralizing experiences in the world. Cause like, back–back in––at Soka University, I had like, three to four jobs while I was there because like, honestly, people really liked me. And so they were just

01:18:38.760 - 01:18:51.310

like, come–come to us, you know, like, it was so easy for me to get a job because like, they really liked me and they're just like, they saw my skills and just like, oh my god, like, we have to have her. And then here, oh my god, I applied for like a graphic design job.

01:18:51.310 - 01:19:00.010

And they're like, oh, you know, it's um––it's like 50, sometimes 60 hours a week. And I'm like, are there health benefits? And they're like, we're working on that.

01:19:00.040 - 01:19:14.560

And I was like, you expect me to work 50 to 60 hours a week, and I'm going to need so much therapy and you won't even like cover that. And so yeah, it was just ugh, gross. So–so that–that's–that's also why I'm like trying so

01:19:14.560 - 01:19:24.160

hard to like, work––like trying so hard to make my own like business and being like an entrepreneur because like, I'm the only one. I know what my boundaries are. I know what my energy levels are.

01:19:24.160 - 01:19:35.130

And like, I'm the only one who will respect it as much as I do. And so I'm just like, if I just––I want to get to a point where, like, if I want to take a week off of work, I just will, you know, like, it's–it's––I'm financially

01:19:35.340 - 01:19:46.830

able to do that. But yeah, that was–that was a random tangent. I forgot––I forget where–where we're going with that. But yeah, music I love music. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Oh no, I was just asking generally about, like , outside of

01:19:46.830 - 01:20:00.960

art––I remember you said that you're like, you know, learning to adult and to like cook and like things like that. Yeah. I mean, luckily, you know, like, honestly, I was talking to my friend who like––she–she works a 30 hour a week job.

01:20:01.320 - 01:20:14.260

And like, I was just asking her, I'm just like, honestly, I'm so ti–I–I–I work about 20. And then like that's–that's not including my art stuff. I guess technically my art stuff is about thirty hours a week. I'm just like, how do people do this, like 40 hours a week, because

01:20:14.260 - 01:20:22.750

it's like, you–you have to consider like time driving. And then like, you know, you also have to exercise too to keep your like body health.

01:20:22.880 - 01:20:35.140

And like I–I do–I do yoga and meditating every day. And I'm just like this–this is like, there's not enough time in the day to do all of this stuff. Like, I don't know how people with like, 40 hour

01:20:35.690 - 01:20:47.880

like jobs, like do this. Like this is just––like–like I asked another friend who did have a 40 hour week job. But she's like, oh, I just go to work. I–I–I go home, I work out and then I just sleep.

01:20:48.620 - 01:21:00.420

And I'm like––and then–and then on the weekends, I'll catch up with chores and stuff. And like, I'll maybe hang out and I'm just like––where––and–and I'm just really curious like where their personal, like and mental health kind of fits into that.

01:21:00.750 - 01:21:12.350

Because it's like––because that's–that's really important for me, so I'm just like, this isn't. Okay, this is no that. Like I'm–I'm gonna work really hard not to have an office job, basically. Yeah.

01:21:16.750 - 01:21:31.760

That reminds me––a friend was telling me that like–like former co–workers, like, who is a restaurant worker is currently in a situation where he's working about like, 100 hours a week.

01:21:34.760 - 01:21:48.440

I'm like, okay, so I've heard of worker abuse. But that's a little––and it's I don't know, I feel like, cause even like, a lo–even like half of that can be

01:21:48.460 - 01:22:00.260

like, such a draining life to live. You know, so it's–– yeah. The real world . I–I only do like a fifth of the wor–you know of the time that he works.

01:22:00.260 - 01:22:11.960

And I'm–I'm honestly tired. Like, I–I can only do––I can–I can only do so much a day, you know? Yeah, yeah. Yeah. Okay. So,

01:22:13.360 - 01:22:28.220

I'm going to––I guess I'm going to finish with some, like, more general questions I guess to wrap things up. Oh one thing I wanted to ask is––so when the pandemic began last

01:22:28.220 - 01:22:45.380

year, like, how did it impact your life? So for Houston, what happened was like we––I–I had–I had bought a trip to Japan. And then like, of course, it was canceled, and I was–I was very disappointed about that.

01:22:45.630 - 01:22:59.190

Because like, the flights were so cheap, and then I–I ended up losing more money, because of all the cancellations. It's fine, I'll–I'll––eventually the borders open–open back up. But for Houston, I think for a month, we had

01:23:00.140 - 01:23:13.240

clo-everything was closed like our––and–and like my mo-we nei-neither of us works essential jobs, which is like, it–it–it was really funny, caus' like, I remember, there was like a list of like, oh, five top, you know,

01:23:13.240 - 01:23:23.490

most essential jobs. It was like doctor, nurse, blah, blah, blah grocery worker, and the other was like, five most non essential job. And the number one was artists, and I'm just like, who designed that chart ?

01:23:23.550 - 01:23:38.910

You munchkin––who designed it? And it was like very––it was like a little bit of a harrowing like I was like––it was a bit much to just consider myself nonessential. But I mean, luckily, you know, they

01:23:39.150 - 01:23:55.180

were very nice about like unemployment and then like, you know, my mom and I had like savings and like––so for that month, I think we were getting a little bit stir–crazy, but my–my mom more so than me, cause she's like–she's like the exact opposite of me

01:23:55.180 - 01:24:06.820

where she like, works like 56 hour––50 to like 60 hours a week. She's like––when––if she like–– when she was like––even like on holidays, during non pandemic seasons, like she––she'll still go into her shop and

01:24:06.820 - 01:24:19.090

like clean like she–she needs to, like, always be doing something. And then for me, I'm just like, I'm super lazy. I'm–I'm–I'm–I'm disparaging myself. But no, it's––I guess it was pretty easy for me.

01:24:19.260 - 01:24:37.060

It's like––I just wrote fanfiction and like, watch my dog and just you know, like it–It was nice to not have a pressure to like, do things and like achieve things like it was just like let's just exist caus' no one's really expecting much otherwise.

01:24:37.280 - 01:24:51.810

So I–I–I was fine with it––I was fine with it and then yeah. It definitely gave me the space to I think pursue my own hobbies actually. Getting caught up in the grind I guess.

01:24:52.190 - 01:25:07.190

Yeah. Yeah, yeah. So like, how did––so after the pandemic, like, initially began, like––well like where are you–where are you at now?

01:25:08.240 - 01:25:24.570

kind of like clearing up, yeah. Yeah, I–I think––so one of my––like I've–I've been––one of my greatest dreams is like to travel and like one of the reasons why I'm working super hard to try to like make my––you know, make

01:25:24.570 - 01:25:37.670

financial stability, my freedom and stuff is to like, be able to like travel, and like go meet all of my friends––like I want to go–I want to go to Korea and see like my best friend and like, I want to go to China and like live there for a month and stuff.

01:25:38.380 - 01:25:52.490

And so like, you know, things aren't like fully back open. But I think for a year, I had an excuse not to like work on stuff, but now that it's back, you know, it's like, we're slowly trying to, like, you know, open the gates and stuff.

01:25:53.670 - 01:26:09.380

Like, it's given me a lot more motivation to like, you know, like, that's why I've been trying, like to try to develop the discipline to like, work everyday on my art and like marketing and stuff. And then–and then slowly–slowly I've been trying to, like change myself.

01:26:09.990 - 01:26:20.690

Like, just because I'm just like, you know, I'm–I'm–I'm great, but they're, you know, they're like––they're, you know, there's some childhood traumas, I–I still have to, like, kind of work through and, like, do stuff like that.

01:26:20.690 - 01:26:33.800

And like and then just like for personally, like, I'm just like, oh, I really want to start trying to like date, you–you know, like date and whatnot, because I never really got the opportunity to do so, back in college

01:26:33.800 - 01:26:48.150

because, like, I–I think like I––so my mom was like, very, like, when I was high school. She was like, I don't want you to start dating until you finish like your–your academics. And I think I––I mean she eventually let go of that, but I guess like I kind of kept that and so like, it was––I didn't really do

01:26:48.150 - 01:27:01.900

much––I didn't really––I––it's a little hard to admit I've never had a boyfriend before. And so like I'm––and I'm just like slowly trying to like get out of my shell and like––I'm like––my–my goal this month is still like oh try to

01:27:01.900 - 01:27:18.080

go on a date and then try to go on an audition and stuff and just, you know, basically it's just always trying to put myself out there and be okay with like, di-discomfort and like cause I'm just like I'm–I'm very uncomfortable––like I'm just like I'm very

01:27:18.150 - 01:27:30.390

com-uncomfortable with like the thought of like that stuff. I'm just like it's–it's okay, like the discomfort is part of growth and that means you know you're changing and it's–it's great that I'm doing that. That's the stuff I'm telling myself.

01:27:31.030 - 01:27:49.430

Yeah, yeah, gotcha. So now that you've––now that you-now that you've been like back in Houston for a bit I'm wondering like you know, how is like

01:27:50.020 - 01:28:06.010

your relationship with the city and like those you know in it like how's it different now versus when you were growing up? Yeah, I think I had a lot of disdain for Houston growing up like it––like just very bluntly like I felt

01:28:06.010 - 01:28:20.490

like it was like a really boring city caus' like I just––I–I mean to be fair like I didn't––you–you can barely go anywhere without a car––it's not– it's not–it's not a very pedestrian friendly city like cars rule.

01:28:21.200 - 01:28:34.530

Yeah, like it's–it's very––so then because I didn't–I didn't have a car until like the later years like it's just––and then my parents didn't really drive anywhere so I just––I was mostly just stuck at home so you know of course I got bored of it.

01:28:34.530 - 01:28:44.690

I–I–I associated Houston with like boredom. But now like––now for Houston, I'm just like, okay, I really appreciate you know the––I really appreciate

01:28:44.690 - 01:29:00.180

my family like I really love–– you know, before I kind of like saw my family as a burden. But now it's like no, no, no, no, no, no, no like I love–I love my nephew and my niece, my like, you know, my–my family and then I, you know, I–I now I'm trying to like find

01:29:00.180 - 01:29:14.400

things I appreciate more so of Houston like the food. I mean, I'm grateful I do have a car to get around. And like the you know, the finances––like it's easier to just say––like, I, you know, just to say you have a little bit more money even though like

01:29:14.400 - 01:29:27.580

the minimum wage is like I'm just like okay, at least I can you know, at least I do have money to like––I try to put away money to invest and stuff like that as long as like okay––it's just––I-it's better.

01:29:27.630 - 01:29:42.480

It's not so much disdain but appreciation. Yeah, yeah. Gotcha. So, you mentioned this a bit before but like where do you like hope to take your

01:29:42.480 - 01:29:50.410

art going forward? Like you mentioned the convention circuit. Yeah––what––so I guess you can tell me more about that, or, you know what else?

01:29:50.410 - 01:30:04.110

Yeah, I–I did an exercise about like, oh, if you were at a funeral, like, what would your eulogy be? And then, you know, and I was just––I was very genuine with it. And I was just like, I really, you know,

01:30:04.260 - 01:30:15.770

anime is great. But it's–it's right now like, I guess, like for me it's like–it's the quickest way––for me, I see it as the quickest way to make a buck. Just because like, I just––I guess like I feel like Vietnamese art isn't

01:30:17.240 - 01:30:26.120

there––like, quite––like, I–I–I want to like sustain it with something like it's––Vietnamese art–Vietnamese art isn't like popular culture. So it's–it's harder to like––for me, like, it's harder to get like an audience for

01:30:26.120 - 01:30:39.390

it. And a lot of the people with money for Vietnamese, it's just they're older. So it's like, it's not like they're on Etsy. So it's, yeah, but I mean ani-anime is great, but it's just, you know, it's just like a–a side thing.

01:30:39.390 - 01:30:55.840

Like, my main goal is to still––I think I like to be like, if someone thinks of like a Vietnamese American artist, like, I–I want to be like, one of the first people to pop up in their mind, like, I–I want to be––I wanna like have like, you know, not fame, but

01:30:55.840 - 01:31:11.430

like I want to be well known as, like a Vietnamese American artist, and especially as like a woman artist as well. Yeah, and then like, yeah, and just, like, inspire like other like Vietnamese like Americans to really appreciate their culture

01:31:11.530 - 01:31:23.030

and not try to, like, you know, leave it behind, and like assimilate and stuff like that. Yeah, yeah. Cool. Cool. So the last thing I want to ask you is,

01:31:24.940 - 01:31:39.350

could you share one thing you love about yourself? Me, I love everything about myself . I guess, yeah, I–I luckily, I–I can say this

01:31:39.380 - 01:31:52.640

because I've–I've been working very hard on my journey of like, self love and stuff like that. I remember like a little poem or like just like a––one of those spoken word event where it's like, oh tell me the things that you love––like the things that you love.

01:31:52.670 - 01:32:04.060

And of course like people say, oh, I love my mom, I love my dad, I love my dog, I love like, our friends and stuff. And then they're like, how far along that list until you say you love yourself? And it was just like, it was a very, like, poignant question.

01:32:04.140 - 01:32:20.330

And I'm just like, now I'm just like, myself is like the first thing. But I think–I think for me, I want to say like, my, like I always want to stay true to myself.

01:32:21.540 - 01:32:37.000

So like–like, the truth-on-like, the truths and like honesty is like one of the most like things––like my core values that are really like highly values. So it was just like, I–I really like to stay truthful, like be truthful to like other people about like, my feelings and

01:32:37.000 - 01:32:52.260

stuff. And then like I want to be truthful to myself about like my own feelings. Because like, I think like––I think for like a long time, I just kind of taught myself to ignore a lot of those things in order to get through it, like I had to like ignore my like feelings of like–like

01:32:52.260 - 01:33:04.950

all of––a lot of my negative feelings in high school, so I can get through it, because it was just like, I didn't like studying, like I just like––I just had to get––I had to ignore that to like get through it. And then, you know, nowadays,

01:33:04.950 - 01:33:16.680

like I–I really pride myself and am able to like walk away from situations where I'm just like, hey, this isn't where it is––it's at. Because like I've–I've had like a couple of things I've already––in terms like

01:33:16.900 - 01:33:30.310

failures, but you know, rephrase them to like learning experience, like, I was promoted to manager of my studio, and I left––I quit within like, three weeks because I was like, hey, this is not good for my mental health. And like it's very toxic––like the bosses

01:33:31.900 - 01:33:45.100

are toxic. Don't put that. like it's––yeah, so I was like, ugh, ew, and like, you know, and I–I tried to do real estate investing for a year, the whole while, it was a whole

01:33:45.100 - 01:33:59.740

thing. And I was just like, I reached a point where I'm like, hey Tam like I don't like doing this anymore. This ju-isn't––this isn't where it's at, let's–let's just move on to the next thing. And like I––and like I'm able to just because of that truth––because of that, like, clarity, I can just

01:34:00.310 - 01:34:14.490

walk away and just like pursue new things and like no-not like, you know, be so hung up on the past. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, thanks for sharing that. I think–I think that's all I had on––all I had on my end.

01:34:14.710 - 01:34:32.910

Yeah. Is there anything that you wanted me to ask you––anything you wanted to be asked in the interview? No, thank you so much for being such a great listener and like interviewer that was–– there was a lot of great questions. It–it was like a really fun thing to

01:34:32.910 - 01:34:33.600

participate in.