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Today is December 23, 2020. My name is Ann Shi, I'm with the Houston Asian American Archive. And we have invited back Sherry Cheng to speak to us again about her stories, and this time on her

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contribution and interaction with the Houston arts and culture scene. Thank you so much, Sherry, for speaking with us. Happy to be here. Yeah, that's wonderful.

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And hope you have a happy holiday season with... Yes, thank you, you too! Kind of a crazy year for all of us, especially in the arts, I think. You know, I mean, even though things are not being presented to the public live,

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the— most of these organizations are probably working twice as hard to not put on a performance. You know, just all the behind the scenes or keeping these organizations going and keeping the artists and musicians paid.

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You know, it's a lot of people have no income right now, or, or limited. Definitely reduced income for a lot of artists and musicians. It's a tough time, but I think organizations are doing

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really well. You know, and the patrons are still here to support organizations from small, medium to large, which... That's a good thing about Houston, we have so many layers we have, we have the small,

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medium and large and they they work together. I think it's a good community. Yeah, definitely. And also, I'm feeling so grateful the creativity is keeping many of

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us sane during this very...artists from creating, I think if you have that creative impulse in you, it's just... can't suppress it. People

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are going to make art no matter what. Absolutely. And to start, I guess, on this interview regarding arts and culture in Houston, could you tell us a little bit about how you entered the culture scene?

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And as we know, you've been contributing as a writer and critic, as a performer and organizer for art events yourself. Um, yeah. Like, how did you start this

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journey? Well, it was very serendipitous, I guess it was, I think, maybe 2017, or whatever it was that Houston Grand Opera produced "Nixon in

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China" for its 30th anniversary performance. Actually, they were the ones that that debuted the opera 30 years ago from, I guess, from 2017. So it was the first time in 30

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years, it was a historic event when it happened. And it was, it's a wonderful opera by John Adams. And the music is very difficult.

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And it, of course, the subject matter is based on the history of President Nixon's first visit, you know, the opening of China to the United States after a long time of no diplomatic

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relationship. So I was very interested in seeing that opera live, because I had never in my lifetime seen it. And I went and loved the production in every way.

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And then a friend of mine saw a review of the opera by the Chronicle theater critic, Wei-Huan Chen. And it— his review...

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and though I think there were two articles he wrote about it, both of which really kind of focused on the issue of yellow face representation, identity politics. All, you know, valid issues for our

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times. But I found it not... I don't know, I felt like it was a personal thing for him, and that he didn't really take into account the history of the art and the

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historic event itself, and, you know, the different perspectives that you could bring in to that. So I just I felt like it was– it was not a well thought out or well researched; even though his personal feelings are valid.

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I just felt like it was an unfair characterization of the production. So I, a friend of mine, asked what I thought of it and I immediately thought, "Wow, I felt pretty strongly

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about this, that I need to write something in defense of the production." Which I did. And it became a Chronicle editorial. And it opened, there was a discussion of this topic at the Asia

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Society, there was a panel discussion about in the future how to... I mean, I think both sides had its point, you know. In the end, the Houston Grand Opera took the representation issue seriously.

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And the just being more aware, I guess, and times change, you know, our, our, our standards of political discourse, you know, evolves over over time as well.

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You know, certain words that were okay, at one point or not, okay, now, you know. So as we progress, and we need to keep talking about it. So I think in the end, it was a good thing that there was a debate, and that his review, in my perspective

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on it, both were heard. And that the using when opera started a Cultural Advisory Committee, and we were able to discuss issues like this before it happened,

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before something went into production; so that you are engaging the community and such, you know, such matters. So yeah, that's how I started it. And after that came out, the editor of "Arts and Culture

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Texas" magazine approached me and asked me if I was interested in writing about the Houston arts and culture, and especially the music scene, because I'm a musician myself.

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And that's how I began my journey into arts writing. That's wonderful. Thank you. And I guess, since we've already started the conversation regarding "Nixon

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in China," I'd love to dig a little bit more about it. And I also remember in June, you went to the "Black Lives Matter" March- The protest.

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Yeah, that was really interesting. So like, all these conversations, we've been engaging since the death of George Floyd about racial segregation. And like

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everyone has been so invested in like trying to trace back our history in this unique time. And do you think if the HGO were to do it again like in...

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and after... Yeah, like the kind of debate and panels; about this... Cultural Advisory Committee... like what do you think they would do if they were to do it over again? Were they to do it differently?

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Well, um, well, I think before for, for opera, this art form is very old and it's very, you know, Euro-centric and not necessarily a diverse...

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I think it shows work on in this area has really shown in the "HGOco," the— their education and community engagement branch. And they have commissioned many operas,

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smaller scale chamber operas, and things like that, that have engaged diverse communities in Houston. But you know, the classics are going to be the classics; and you will always have "La Traviata," and "La

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Boheme" and all of those great masterworks. Um, and I mean, with those, you don't run into as much the– the cultural sensitive, you know, culturally sensitive debates. But, for instance, they– they put on "

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Pearl Fishers" a year ago, or so ago, and I remember discussing about the costuming and the dancing because it is in an exotic location, which is current day Sri Lanka, you know.

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So, I think they did, they had a Sri Lankan dancer that came and consulted with them, and they were especially aware of the costume not being so stereotyped.

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There it was, it was a beautiful production, full of colors and, but they did do the work beforehand to prepare audiences and have that discussion. So I think same thing, if they were to do something that, like "Nixon in China," there would be many

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essays written about the historical context; that is in their magazine that people can read about the historical context. So that when they see if they decide to use— portray Asian character in a certain way,

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that seems negative; maybe in the historical context, it was negative, you know, it was meant to be portrayed that way. So, so that people have an understanding of that before they go into it. So I think it's

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more the the prep work that you do, the– that, you know, when you educate the audience; not in the condescending way, but just giving them a larger historical context, for the storyline and for why certain

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production choices were made. And as far as representation, I mean, there are enough Asian American voices operatic voices out there to cast more Asian American or American singers; for instance, I mean, they did

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have one for, for that production that I went to, for a major character. And, you know, Houston has been... but you know, so few people are capable of doing those roles.

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So it is that is a very difficult thing for them to accomplish. And especially with opera, you have to go five years out to engage an artist. So, you know, just recognize— letting the audience recognize too, the– the challenges of all of that;

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and still keeping in mind that, you know, I think the issue is quite progressive, and they really are trying very much to– to be with the times, and even ahead of the times, to be, to be really a

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leader in this area. I don't know if that answered your question, but... Very much so. Thank you. Yeah. And I also, I'm aware that you're also very

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active in the other organization as well, like you wrote about Musiqa, Da Camera— Da Camera... Yeah, I have written... See, I've written quite a few articles on ROCO, Apollo

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Chamber Players, on Musiqa, Houston Chamber Choir, Da Camera, especially. And, I mean, these are organizations that I really believe in, you know. They're they're dear to my heart.

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It's a... I don't, I don't think of it as a conflict of interest, necessarily. I just, I am an advocate of the Houston music and art scene. I do truly believe in

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all these organizations, different missions. And I think it's wonderful that we have, you know, Apollo Chamber Players is a very small group, you know. It's just a quartet, basically, at its core.

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But they have engaged the Vietnamese community and the, the Indian community. I mean, each season, each program, it's, they, you know, they, they really get into

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every culture that's, that lives in Houston; they're interested in, in how to bring that into their classical music world into, you know, with their small ensemble. They've, you know, they're "20x2020" which just finished over this pandemic year.

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They had to do that online. But you know, that was 20 commissions within the last, you know, less than 10 years, I think; that they commission all of those new works, each representing a different

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country or a different culture. And, you know, they bring new audiences in; and they've really succeeded in their mission with– with that project. So I was really on board for, you know,

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advocating for them on that issue. I think the very first article I wrote for "Arts and Culture " was covering their, their recording trip to Cuba, which was another amazing thing; because Cuba was had just opened up at that

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time for travel for just, you know, normal people. Um, well, in fact, there was a period I think Trump banned the travels, so that came after that. Anyway and then ROCO too is...

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it's their mission. It's a lot of commissioning of new works. They're really into the living composers. And– and just making connection with the audience, which

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they're very good at doing. Right now, they have something on the along the Buffalo Bayou. I don't know if you've seen it when you've taken walks there. But there are stations along the trail that you can, you know, hold

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your phone over the the code and it— the music that goes with that spot pops up; and you can have a nice jog with ROCO as your soundtrack. So, so for me a lot of creative,

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innovative ways of engaging with audience are happening, you know, even during this time— especially during this time. Because they have to find new ways to stay relevant and stay in the community. Yeah. And Da Camera.

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Of course, they're all online too. And what I like about Da Camera is their, especially their Young Artist Program. And they really train these amazing performers, to

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not only perform; but to, to educate, to go out into the schools and, you know, be able to relate and, and introduce music in a really vibrant and an age-appropriate way to different diverse groups of, of people in the

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community. So I think they've engaged in also, honestly, and just just different various things that they've been doing. And even the prison community, they went to youth detention centers. I especially enjoyed

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working on that project with the Da Camera artists. I think it was like a six week at least, maybe even more— an eight-week residency at a youth detention facility in Harris County out near NASA, actually.

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And they would go out there every Friday morning at 8am with these girls that are from, you know, troubled, having, you know, their troubled teens basically, and with their drug problems or whatever, you

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know, sex trafficking, whatever they're victims, or they're– they're perpetrators; but they're, they, you know, they're in this facility, and they were able to write their own story and present it as an opera.

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And that was very empowering to watch these girls be able to do that and how proud they were of themselves doing that. So yeah, those are some of the things I've been writing about. And covering that I really feel strongly

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about. And then there's the recently the my most recent article was on the Houston Chamber Choirs digital season. And I think that's an amazing story too, because singing has been one of those things that

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is especially hard to do in pandemic times. Because early on, they were identified as super spreaders, you know, choirs. So be able to— how do you find a way to sing together again, you know.

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And singing is one of the most natural forms of artistic expression, even if you're not a professional musician, you can start singing a song, you know.

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So I think and you know, like this holiday time people sing together in congregation in churches, and you know, the Messiah is put on. It's just this. We missed that we missed that human connection of just our voices joining together.

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So I especially enjoyed covering that story as well, and how they've been able to do that safely. Yeah, amazing to hear that you're so well verse into like, all aspects of Hou- Houston, like music scenes,

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and culture scenes. And I noticed that your frequent visitors of— probably not super frequent now— but like in the art scene as well, like the MFA...

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Yes, yes, I love the visual arts. And I am starting to expand in that area as well. I mean, there's, it's, there's always a lot to learn.

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When you– when you write about something, you want to be knowledgeable in it. And I'm not a polymath, you know, I, I started off just being a classically trained musician. But I am

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interested in everything. As you say, I think when you– when, when you are– when you open yourself to more and more; the more you open yourself to, the– the more

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curiosity, the more interest. And this is one thing leads to another. It's my mind is always going in tangents. Like, I'm interested in this.

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As soon as I start reading about this subject, something else pops up. And I'm immediately jumping to research on that. So I'm just always trying to broaden, I guess my– my knowledge base and my engagement in the– in the

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arts world. So yeah, my next story is actually a visual arts story. So that, that will be fun, fun to do. And yes, I love the new Kinder building at the MFAH.

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And the Menil has been putting on amazing exhibitions as well. And of course, they just opened the Drawing Institute, you know, about six months ago, I think, and that's been a great addition as well.

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So yes, and art, art galleries. I was gonna, there's one gallery that I- I'm very fond of. It's— and it's one of those, it's not a gallery where you feel like you...

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Oh, you have to, you know where everything is super expensive and you need to be a collector to be in there. You know, this is Archway Gallery on, on Westheimer, near Common Bond actually.

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It's a collective of over 30 artists, and they share the space and they exhibit their works. And there's always a special exhibition. And they often host concerts.

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You know, I think— or your friend Marc has played there before and a different quartet, KINETIC Ensemble, Luke 38... they, all these small ensembles, they've all used the space. And one of the

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co-owners is John Slaby, or Slaby. And he's an amateur pianist himself, and he has been organizing... Because, you know, this year, just this month is Beethoven's 255th anniversary.

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So Adam Golka, this great pianist from Houston, he is playing all 32 Beethoven Sonata this month at the Archway. So just really, really amazing.

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Yeah, definitely, like all the culture in terms of either it's visual or sound arts are kind of coming together and collaborating... Right. Yes.

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And actually also, going back to a little bit about, I guess, your story, since you studied in Oklahoma. And coming to Houston, like, what were some of the surprises that you experienced?

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What do you find unique about the Houston arts and culture scene? Well, I've had so many artists and musicians tell me that, they would not be able to do what they do anywhere else. I mean, that may be an exaggeration, but I really do think Houston is special.

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The combination of... it's a big city that feels like a small town. You know, it's, it's, it's not cutthroat; it's not... it's competitive in a way that it's beneficial to everyone; rather than...

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It's all inclusive, it's a very inclusive environment. I mean, that the dancers in the Houston Ballet have worked with some of these small music ensembles. All you have to do is reach out to a person.

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All you have to do is know somebody and build a bridge; and collaborations just happen. You know, and from very, you know, very avant garde kind of artists, to individual artists.

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And individual could go out there and meet a videographer that they end up making a movie together, a music video, or, you know.

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All you have to do is ask, "This is what I need, who is out there willing to collaborate with me." And things tend to happen that way. And I think that's a very special thing about Houston. And I think it's continuingly to happen, you know, it's, um, you tend to

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meet people who are not just in the, you know, not just in the music... It's not narrow. It's what I'm trying to say. There's another new– new group that I'm really proud of.

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That has just sprung up in the last couple of months— The Monarch Chamber Players. They've been, for instance, they've been taking their five person "Nutcracker" show on the road.

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You know, because the Ballet is not putting on "Nutcracker" this year live. Right, they made a video. But this little group has been going to people's private homes, socially distance ou- outside in the yard.

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And they have that a classic film of the "Nutcracker" in the background. And they are a wind quintet. And they play the entire show with their own cadenzas and arrangement. And, and it's a hit.

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You know, people are showing up to these events. And, you know, they're traveling not just within Houston, but even to Clear Lake or Woodlands, they've been kind of out and about in the

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in the greater metropolitan area. So, and it's just popped up, it's just like it, you know. Somebody has initiatives that, "Oh, you know, we don't have any work and let's just make something happen." And they

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did. So that's kind of that kind of entrepreneurial spirit that I think is especially prevalent in our city, and I'm just so proud to, to be a person that sometimes is a bridge for that.

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Because I don't, I don't really do a whole lot of performing myself anymore. And I, I mean, I still, you know, make some videos and put my things out there. But for me, it's rewarding to

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see the younger people doing that; to try to be the person who, who, who, you know, introduce them to the right people to make all of that happen; and to advocate for them. So I feel like that's more and more my role, and I'm happy to do it.

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Yeah, thank you so much for being the bridge and mediator to help, yeah, musicians and artists to get out there. And can you speak a little bit about the audience? Like, how has your interaction with the audience

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been? Um, well, um, aside from, you know, I've been to quite a few Houston Symphony events, which have a growing... Well, they first they started off just inviting some, the major donors back.

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And then, you know, maybe 75 people in the audience, and then increasing to 150. And eventually, now, I think they're allowing us as many as 500 to be back in Jones Hall.

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But, you know, so far, they haven't had numbers that big; but you know, maybe 300 tops. But I've been to a few life events in the venue. And that has been

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really nice, you know, to get to go to a live performance. Other live performances I have been to, have been out mostly outside, you know, I went to an Apollo Chamber Player event, and a Loop38 event. And I went to an Aurora Picture show event where they

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showed surreal shorts on the Menil main building. And that was amazing. You know, a lot of people showed up and brought their blankets and their picnics.

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And it was just a fun event for the community. That's another thing— the theater community, that's, they've been, you know, doing, trying to think out of the box and trying to keep going as well. And that's been hard. It's a community, it's been hit pretty hard.

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Of course, you know, the Alley is giving their Christmas carol as a free gift to the city. But The Catastrophic Theatre, the... one of the actors involved, Greg Dean, he kind of used this time to make his

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dream happen, which is making a movie. And it's a short movies, it's 15 minutes; but it's like a combination of "Laurel & Hardy". And I don't know, it's really cool.

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It's, it's called, “Herzstuck”. And it's about a violinist and pianist. And, but things fall apart, and parts are literally broken. But um, anyways, I mean, just I've been seeing all these different

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events. Asia Society too, has put on some amazing shows, like the the ancient bronze from— I think it's from the Minnesota Arts Institute . It's a the Pillsbury Collection.

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But that's one of the best bronze exhibit I've seen anywhere, you know, just top quality artifacts and collection, basically. And that was here for a

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while, and it, I think it just left last month. And now they're hosting— in the same exhibit rooms, they're hosting local artists, Asian American artists, who are, who are... if you go visit, they show they're

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basically working there. And you get to see them at work and see their whole process and their craft. So that's pretty amazing. I think I got sidetracked by this question.

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I probably went a different way. Um, what was the original question? Yeah, I was wondering about your interaction with the audience like...

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Oh, my audience, right. Right. Right. Yes. Okay. Well, I guess, I guess, um, people have told me that not only do they— it's not really just the events themselves that they

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miss. This is so true. It's the community of... you know, you see the same people at the same shows. These are your diehard fans of all of these

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different groups, you know. So when you don't get to go to these live events anymore, you miss interaction between, you know. They may not be your everyday friends; but they may be just the friends

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that you go to this theater with, or friends that you go to the Houston Symphony with; or friends that you go to... or any any groups, you know. It's like little groupies, you know.

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So we all have our community of people that we share these experiences with. And without the live event you know, you kind of lose touch. So a lot of people have told me that they that's what they miss.

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Not only the art itself, that the– the music itself; but the community of the audience of sitting in the next row and just waving and saying hello and catching up. You know, it's a very social aspect of going to these

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events and sharing in this amazing art together. And, you know, being taken out of your daily life and to have that the special moments like that. So I mean, I think that's to a certain extent, when you get on a chat room, and

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you're listening to a event online, over Zoom or over YouTube Live. I know sometimes in the middle of listening, I will just text online to a friend that I see also that is in the audience.

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And, you know, we, we, we have a little chat about, you know, "this sounds awesome. And I love this piece." Or, you know, like, "great that you're here." But it will be this, I guess it will be the same except it's not in

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person, you can, you know, go have a drink after, or anything like that. But it's still it's still a shared experience. It's, it's, I would much rather

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have the live experience. But it's been, it's been okay, you know, there's ways to engage online as well. So and I think the younger generation is much more likely to be comfortable and,

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and okay with, with the– just the online presence. So I'm, I guess I'm more old school, I still prefer to engage socially live.

00:31:06.510 - 00:31:21.180

So. But it's better than nothing, those little chat rooms. So. Yeah, we all miss like the vibrance of the music in the air for sure. Yeah. But one good thing is that with everything being online, now you can

00:31:21.180 - 00:31:33.120

access not just Houston's arts events, but the best of the whole world. You know, you can listen to the London Symphony online, you can listen... you know, you can– you can do whatever it is that you're interested in.

00:31:33.120 - 00:31:44.620

And a lot of great artists all around the country are giving masterclasses. And, you know, I think people are opening up their practice, to...

00:31:44.710 - 00:31:56.290

once they open it on the internet is really for anybody. It's not just for local people, so that you can share it with your family and friends that live in different parts of the world. You know, and

00:31:56.290 - 00:32:10.740

that's, that is the one one good thing about the opening this up online, you know, and I think that's not going to go away. I think for all the organizations, that's now going to be a definite, this is here to stay

00:32:10.740 - 00:32:21.880

kind of thing, even when live performances come back. And that's just in addition too. It's never a bad thing. You know, I don't think it takes away from what we have here at

00:32:21.880 - 00:32:40.120

home. Yeah, thank you so much. And I'm also wondering, as, since we are interviewing as an Asian American archive, like, with you being Asian American, like how has this— the identity, I guess, part of...

00:32:40.340 - 00:32:57.830

like, contributed to the art scene or helped you navigate the art scene in a unique perspective? Like what is special? Well, I mean, I personally, I guess I've never

00:32:58.150 - 00:33:12.660

really approach this as from a Asian American or Chinese American perspective. But, of course, when there is an Asian American artist,

00:33:12.830 - 00:33:23.060

or musician, I tend to pay particular attention to it. And I'm proud of that heritage and what they bring to their practice, you know.

00:33:23.230 - 00:33:42.460

So, so when there is an Asian American that is, it's, you know, successful or in what they do and creative. And that is a sense of empowerment for the community. So I guess that is my, I'm always looking for

00:33:45.400 - 00:34:02.080

someone from my homeland, that– that is doing something unique and amazing. And I want to know about it, and want to know how they come come to it, how they came to it. And, you know, because it's, it

00:34:02.080 - 00:34:18.180

definitely affects the way you make art, I think, where your roots are, and of course, you're influenced by all of the things that– that go into that. I mean, that's why I kind of I go to the Asia Society, I keep I keep up with

00:34:18.570 - 00:34:28.190

most of their exhibits, because they– they have curated from that community, basically. Locally and internationally. And I always enjoy

00:34:28.240 - 00:34:41.130

what they have to offer. And from that perspective, so I depend on organizations with those specific missions, to bring me that aspect.

00:34:41.720 - 00:34:54.740

But I mean, I'm not really seeking it out myself necessarily. I tend to appreciate all cultures and all forms, and the diversity of our entire city as a whole. So I'm not really

00:34:56.500 - 00:35:09.860

focused so much on that particular aspect. Yeah, I totally understand. Yeah. music can be so many things, and it can rooted from anywhere and travel everywhere, like is diaspora...

00:35:09.860 - 00:35:27.070

Exactly. Especially, I mean, classical music, there's so many Asian Americans who are performers, who are such dedicated and gifted performers of their instruments. And, you know, it's, I think Asian

00:35:27.070 - 00:35:44.790

Americans are a pretty dominant force now, in that industry, especially the orchestral music industry. You look in any major orchestra, you're going to see a lot of Asian American faces. So, you know, it's, it's that

00:35:44.900 - 00:36:01.910

part of representation is... It's important, but I think what's more important is, is, you know, just, just fostering the audience in the community to appreciate the art form itself, you know.

00:36:03.600 - 00:36:17.220

Yeah, I mean, I don't think it matters as much how many people are Asian American who plays in an orchestra here, there and everywhere. You know, I mean, it's some, you know, as, as a

00:36:17.810 - 00:36:30.170

Asian parent, I guess, most of us make our children take a musical instrument, you know, as they're part of their upbringing. And I think that's all good and well. And there's nothing wrong with that.

00:36:30.230 - 00:36:41.690

But I don't think we should limit ourselves to any particular field really. I think to me, you just let your children develop these interests, and you expose them to things.

00:36:41.690 - 00:36:58.170

And like my kids, they didn't take to music, you know, so they're playing tennis. You know, it's just whatever their interests, wherever it lies, you know. I would like to see more representation in all fields, not just that, we're not known as just

00:36:59.460 - 00:37:09.950

doctors or, or musicians, or anything and anything. Anybody else can do, we can do. You know, it's, it's, there's no limit.

00:37:11.730 - 00:37:26.330

Yeah, absolutely. And I guess I'm also curious, what are some of the artworks or an artist that you find that particularly tackle this issue— I mean, this

00:37:26.530 - 00:37:38.600

topic on Asian American identity, well while not overdoing it? Okay, well, I there's an Austin artist I love. I'm trying to look up her name for you.

00:37:38.600 - 00:37:47.160

It's, I think it's Bei... Beili. Beili Liu. Yeah, I love her work. And it's, you can definitely see the Asian

00:37:47.160 - 00:37:58.610

influence in her work. But she's also, she does a lot of installation art. It's just really amazing. I mean, she was at the, she was one of the artists represented at the Asia Society, in

00:37:58.610 - 00:38:09.050

an exhibit that they had last year, I remember seeing, seeing her large scale works. And I follow her on Instagram, and she's just, she, I love seeing her process.

00:38:09.050 - 00:38:18.590

And she shows the process. And she's the mother of a little girl. And they sometimes they do art together and they get all covered in whatever material she's- she's using at the moment.

00:38:18.790 - 00:38:36.560

But um. Yes, she's one of those artists that I really appreciate. And, of course, the big names you know, Ai Weiwei, the new museum, the new Kinder building has his dragon, that's kind of like inspired by the way you build a kite, you know, with a

00:38:36.560 - 00:38:47.330

bamboo ribbing and the rice paper over it. That's hanging right over that tunnel, with the the light installation by all of our LED

00:38:47.330 - 00:39:02.290

lights on. It looks wonderful. And Ai Weiwei, of course, is a very political figure, you know, his, his art is definitely making a very political overt political statement.

00:39:05.480 - 00:39:16.790

And he's very outspoken artists too. So I've always been a fan of his. Um, there's not that much actually. The MFA is...

00:39:17.090 - 00:39:29.670

there's not a whole lot of Asian representation there. I have to say in the, in the modern art. And perhaps they will, they'll dig into that a little bit more because the new building focuses as far as contemporary art,

00:39:30.470 - 00:39:43.880

more on Latin America... which is good because we have a huge Hispanic community here. But perhaps they will start investing in art, the modern

00:39:43.880 - 00:39:56.220

art in in Asia, because that's, it's, there's a lot of very political art in... Coming out of China and, and I think it's important. It's a very important voice.

00:39:56.660 - 00:40:10.710

So I hope to see more of that out of MFAH when they keep building on their modern art collection. Yeah absolutely. I think they had two new artists,

00:40:12.560 - 00:40:20.920

Aoki and Jennifer Ling Datchuck. Okay. Oh, yes, I've seen Jennifer. So I, I enjoy her work too. Yes, I- I...

00:40:23.040 - 00:40:31.470

Yes. I really do like her things. I know exactly what you're talking about. It's very whimsical. And it's, yeah, yes.

00:40:32.900 - 00:40:48.630

There was a, there was a short film. And you know, there's one room in the Kinder building that has shorts, video shorts, I think is right behind the photography area. And the very last film in that list is a

00:40:49.020 - 00:41:02.220

film by a Chinese, Chinese videographer, I guess, movie maker, director named Cao Fei. And it's called "RMB City" or something.

00:41:02.770 - 00:41:14.150

And it's just like this floating island of all these very iconic themes. It's like... But instead of Tiananmen square with Chairman Mao in the middle; it's like a panda in the middle or something. I don't quite remember.

00:41:14.150 - 00:41:29.190

But there's, you know, there's this famous CCTV building that's dangling off a crane, and, you know, the whole thing is wobbling in the sea. You know, there's like a statue of Mao and, yeah, it's, it's, and it's

00:41:29.260 - 00:41:47.710

animated. You know, it's very exaggerated, and in many ways cartoonish. But it's, it's an interesting... It's all these icons that you just, you would immediately recognize. But it's almost like a very commercial,

00:41:48.640 - 00:41:58.380

you know, intentionally commercial to make a statement about, I guess, materialism or whatever it is. I guess you could read it in many ways. But I mean, I would like to

00:41:58.380 - 00:42:11.410

see more works like that, actually. So it's, it's provocative. Yeah. And also be not just about Asian American, but it's like Asian artists from Asia.

00:42:11.790 - 00:42:23.210

That's also really interesting. Yeah, they their work does not necessarily have to be a certain way, you know. Yeah, absolutely. Mm hmm.

00:42:23.280 - 00:42:40.000

And do you have any thoughts on the patronage of arts and culture? The patronage? You mean, okay, be more specific, I'm not quite sure what you mean by that. Yeah, like the kind of diversity in patronage of the

00:42:40.000 - 00:42:55.080

arts and culture scene... Asian American...? Mm hmm. Yeah, I have to say that, that Asian Americans— and I'm making a generalization that I'm sorry if I'm doing that— but generally, they are not consumers

00:42:55.080 - 00:43:07.170

of the arts. Generally. I have not seen huge numbers of Asian Americans, at, in concert halls or at arts venues.

00:43:08.070 - 00:43:19.460

It's, I don't know, I mean, maybe maybe we're just too busy with our lives and other areas to, to really make that a thing. I don't, I'm not

00:43:19.460 - 00:43:32.010

sure why. Or it's just not something that they choose to spend money on, I think. I mean, the arts are expensive. I mean, to to attend these events is expensive.

00:43:33.170 - 00:43:50.120

So in general think, like, like theater, especially. I don't think Asian American families encourage their kids to be actors for one thing. Um, and the things that take... old classical music,

00:43:50.120 - 00:44:02.100

yes, that, you know, the Asian American family has always had their kids in orchestras and that take piano lessons. But there's certain areas in the arts that they're, they're not cultivating actively.

00:44:02.920 - 00:44:14.870

But I mean, I guess I suppose that is true for for many other groups, as well. And I think that's... Part of it is economics. Um, I'm not sure I think

00:44:16.190 - 00:44:28.440

parents tend to still want their kids to do something in their mind, that's more and more, you know, quote unquote, "serious", serious studies. And somehow the, the arts is still not a serious enough endeavor.

00:44:30.680 - 00:44:47.690

But I mean, I do see more the, this generation of, you know, people my age, this is my generation of adults at more, you know, being— trying to be more involved. So, I

00:44:47.690 - 00:45:03.450

mean, I hope that that continues. I hope to see more people that look like me in audiences of things that I go to. You know, I would, I would love to be able to share that with the Asian

00:45:03.450 - 00:45:15.220

American community. I'm not quite sure how to do it. So it seems like a little bit... Um, I don't know, it's not...

00:45:17.300 - 00:45:32.510

I think they like to, I think I've seen Asian Americans at their own events. I think it's still kind of... I don't want to say insular but... maybe it is like, they will go to their the folk orchestras.

00:45:32.780 - 00:45:46.270

There's lots of organizations that, that put on. Like, there's a choral community of, I don't know— it's Taiwanese or a particular country; but it's, their concerts are well attended.

00:45:46.870 - 00:46:01.970

I've been to some community events, and where the whole audience is Asian, pretty much. But I haven't seen them kind of come out in big groups at operas or symphonies, for

00:46:01.970 - 00:46:12.820

instance, you know. So, I mean, that's worth exploring, I guess. But, I mean, there's so many options out there. And if they just want to attend things within their own

00:46:12.820 - 00:46:28.060

community, that's wonderful, too. You know, I like to see more Americans going to those things. And I've actually had people ask me, "Oh, do you know where I can send my child to take Pipa lessons?" Or,

00:46:28.580 - 00:46:45.660

"Guzhen lessons..." you know, you know, that's, that's a way of opening up the Asian folk music to, to the American world. So they're, they're welcoming Americans into their folk orchestras, you know, Chinese

00:46:45.660 - 00:47:00.170

instrument orchestras. So the reverse can happen to you, it will be nice to see audience, a diverse audience at all events, you know, across the board. Yeah, absolutely.

00:47:00.960 - 00:47:14.230

Like, from your... just like, opinion... how do you think that we can kind of blur this boundary between different culture going to different music and cultural scene?

00:47:15.620 - 00:47:31.140

Well, it just, it really just takes a few people who really want to make that happen, to actually make that happen. I really believe that I think, it just takes a person from this organization, say the Chinese Youth Orchestra to reach out to the Houston

00:47:31.470 - 00:47:40.640

Symphony management. So we are interested in being part of your organization's activities. And maybe we can do some outreach both ways.

00:47:41.130 - 00:47:52.900

And then maybe they can get together for a project for like the Chinese Lunar New Year concert; or a Chinese dance group that I've seen, like beautiful folk dancing these, there's all these schools in Chinatown that

00:47:53.450 - 00:48:06.300

that put on these beautiful shows for their own audience. But, you know, it doesn't even have to be a festival, you know; it could be anything that the symphonies always in their education

00:48:06.300 - 00:48:18.120

counselors, they could feature a group like that. It just, I mean, I think it just really takes the gumption to reach out and communicate. Of course, it has to be quality.

00:48:18.630 - 00:48:30.460

You know, that's, that's part of it. But I think there is quality out there, I think there's– there's definitely groups that, that should be on the stage in Jones Hall, you know, that could be invited by

00:48:30.890 - 00:48:45.600

another major organization. You know, the symphony does their own outreach into these communities when we, you know, pre-COVID; but, you know, in their summer concerts to these events. But I think if you had that cross involvement, it would definitely bring the

00:48:45.620 - 00:48:56.790

patronage, you know, the parents of these children who are in the dance shoes. They would take them more to the symphony concerts, if they were invested in it. You know, if it's, "oh, my child actually performed with the Houston

00:48:56.860 - 00:49:07.110

Symphony." You know, things like that, I think, I don't know. I mean, those are small things may be, but um... but if you start thinking that way, I think it's just all about...

00:49:07.760 - 00:49:19.570

That's how groups make projects happen, you know, the smaller groups. And I think the bigger groups could take a page out of the smaller groups book and, you know, make things happen that way, too.

00:49:19.890 - 00:49:32.900

So it doesn't have to always be from top down, it could be from bottom up. Those are just my personal thoughts. I have no idea. I'm not in the management of things at all, on the management side. I have no idea how hard that is.

00:49:33.840 - 00:49:43.960

To make these things happen. I'm sure it is really difficult. And I'm sure you can't have your hand in everything and know everything about what's going on in the city and in these different communities.

00:49:44.640 - 00:49:58.260

But it's really, I think it's just takes individuals and groups that are interested, and that are invested enough in that in making that happen. Yeah, absolutely.

00:49:59.130 - 00:50:10.670

And thank you for sharing. I know that not all these questions are easy, easy questions, and I put you on the spot... Who knows if I made, making any sense!

00:50:10.770 - 00:50:27.220

Thank you. Yeah. And how about the institutions behind like, the artists. For example, like artists can be inferior to like, express themselves for institutions or curators, and like they can be, kind of, boxed into

00:50:27.220 - 00:50:38.700

different... I know. Yes. They... Well, I mean, I guess they have a criteria that they and it's personal to, I mean, there's no way for that. Art is personal, you know.

00:50:38.780 - 00:50:56.660

There's, I'm not, I'm not trying to say that, that museums and institutions have an agenda. But they're certainly aware of the current climate. You know, and I think they, in certain ways they have to curate in a

00:50:57.050 - 00:51:10.890

way that brings awareness to that. And there's nothing, nothing wrong with, with that. I don't think there's anything inherently wrong with curating in order, you

00:51:10.890 - 00:51:32.210

know. Whether it's for underrepresented groups or a particular theme or message that they would like to, for people to, to be more thoughtful and aware of. That, that's kind of, that's kind of fulfills the mission of

00:51:32.210 - 00:51:45.130

the institution, in a way. If their mission is to be inclusive, then that is definitely something they, they always considering, you know.

00:51:46.290 - 00:52:01.600

I don't think we should be reactionary to the times; but I think we just need to be aware of the times we live in and try to make a positive contribution to the conversation. Not a divisive one, but just, you know, something to open up the

00:52:01.600 - 00:52:16.030

conversation, which is, you know, always it's important to. And people are going to react to art in unpredictable ways. It's not, there's not a set response to any of

00:52:16.150 - 00:52:30.320

these things that we see. You know, and the art is... once the art is out there, it's not theirs necessarily anymore. It's not that you cannot predict the response, you cannot

00:52:30.590 - 00:52:42.460

control your art necessarily, once it's out there. People are going to say what they're going to say, and people are going to all have their own opinions. You know, so artists are always vulnerable that way.

00:52:42.890 - 00:52:59.410

Because once it's out there, you have to let it go. It's, it belongs to the world and it belongs to, and everybody can have an opinion on it. You know, so, I mean, I don't see anything overtly. So like that in today's art world.

00:52:59.410 - 00:53:12.770

In fact, I think people are probably err on the side of being careful these days, because they don't want to offend anybody. And I think art loses its ability to really make a meaningful

00:53:13.200 - 00:53:24.270

difference, if people are censoring themselves. Whether it's in... I mean, I think that's more true in literature in the things that you write. People are more careful now to not say the wrong things.

00:53:26.810 - 00:53:43.260

But you can... The individual arts, and in theater for sure, that– that can definitely still happen, that kind of effect and influence that words can have, that– that visual images can have. So yeah, I mean, it's,

00:53:43.260 - 00:53:56.750

it's, it's, I mean, I'm trying to think of an example of a specific... Actually, this this upcoming artist that I'm covering Anna Mayer for the Houston Contemporary Crafts Museum.

00:53:57.320 - 00:54:12.910

She did a project that she started in 2008. She put out these, the clay tablets with– with written words on them, out in the Southern California in the forests. Random locations, I guess I haven't read specifically.

00:54:14.030 - 00:54:27.860

But now 10 years later, more than 10 years later, six of those tablets have naturally been fired by natural fires by the these pretty much disasters, we've been having our request with these wildfires,

00:54:27.860 - 00:54:42.760

right. So, um, you know, so when I talk to her, I'm going to ask her about, you know, her, her art is definitely making a statement. It's an environmental statement. I don't know if she, what her intentions were, you know.

00:54:42.760 - 00:54:56.510

I mean, often artist's intentions and the interpretation by the audience, it's, it's open to different interpretations. But for sure, there's an environmental message in there.

00:54:58.010 - 00:55:11.120

So what is the artist intent in setting those tablets out there? And does she predict that there will be wildfires that would make them fire naturally? And what is that? What is she trying to say with that?

00:55:11.120 - 00:55:24.270

You know, so. Yeah, that's, I guess that's just a small example of what an artist can say, and how she, she or he is saying it through their art.

00:55:27.620 - 00:55:41.020

Yeah, thank you for sharing and I'm so excited to see the article coming out and continue... That's the end of January or early February because that exhibit goes out January 31. At the... that's a gem

00:55:41.020 - 00:55:47.760

of a museum too. So there's just so much in Houston. It's, it's really amazing. You just have to go out there and see it.

00:55:49.260 - 00:56:01.400

Yeah, absolutely. I guess that's all of my questions. Do you have anything to add? No, I'm good. I just hope everybody stays healthy and that we get this vaccine.

00:56:01.450 - 00:56:13.400

And then I don't know how long it's gonna take for the live performances to come back. I'm assuming it probably won't be until the following fall at the earliest.

00:56:13.590 - 00:56:27.590

And, but it will, it will be back, it will be different. I think it's, we've been in such a long hiatus that people have gotten used to a certain thing. So it will not be just like snap of the

00:56:27.590 - 00:56:43.480

finger. You know, there's gonna be still a lot of challenges ahead. So we'll just try to keep going. Because life is, you know, richer with the arts for sure. Yeah, absolutely.