00:00:04.440 - 00:00:16.930

Today is May 6, 2021. My name is Ann Shi. I'm with the Houston Asian American Archive. Today, we're interviewing Rajeev Raghavan for his Houston Asian American Archive's oral history project about his life

00:00:16.930 - 00:00:29.920

stories. Thank you so much, Rajeev, for joining us today. Yeah, thank you for setting this up, Ann. And thank you for having me. Great, to start, can you tell us where and when were you born? Yeah, sure.

00:00:29.920 - 00:00:43.350

I was born in 1979. I was born in Corning, New York, which is in upstate New York. It was cold, cold time, because the winters in upstate New York, extend well past March and April,

00:00:43.350 - 00:00:52.700

which is when, I was born in March. And so yeah, I was born there. My parents had moved to the US, I think, in 1973, thereabouts. And so

00:00:54.530 - 00:01:02.940

yeah, so that's where I was born. And then after that, we moved. When I was four years old, we moved to Richmond, Indiana, so in the Midwest.

00:01:03.720 - 00:01:18.160

And we were there for about six years or so, and then my mom had come over, and she decided to go back to school and get her bachelor's and master's. And so my brother and I went to India, where we lived with our grandparents for about two and a half years.

00:01:19.070 - 00:01:28.460

And then when we came back, we moved to Ohio, just south of Dayton, Ohio, a small, in a suburb called Centerville. And that's kind of where I

00:01:28.460 - 00:01:43.980

grew up for most my time. And before coming to Houston, I spent most of my life in Ohio. So when you move back to India, from America, for that brief two and a half years, can you share some of

00:01:43.980 - 00:01:57.110

the interesting stories? Like was it strange for you? Oh, yeah, I mean, I remember it was strange at first. I was there for third, fourth, and part of fifth grade.

00:01:57.170 - 00:02:09.790

And so of course, you know, my brother and I, and, you know, definitely, I could feel that I was a stranger there, because everyone had grown up in India. And now I was the only one coming there from the US into my class.

00:02:10.840 - 00:02:24.450

And it was a different experience. And I think, you know, the language was definitely is both English and Tamil. Tamil is the language in Chennai, in South India, which is where we were living. And so I am not a native, I

00:02:24.450 - 00:02:35.980

mean, I know Tamil, but I'm not as native of a speaker. And so definitely the pronunciation made me stick out. The, not wearing uniforms— I wasn't used to wearing uniforms in school, that made me stick out a little bit.

00:02:36.100 - 00:02:49.890

And I think, you know, it's just a little bit of getting used to. So I do remember, it was a little bit of a transition period. But I will say living with my grandparents, in hindsight, was probably one of the most rewarding experiences that

00:02:49.890 - 00:03:01.850

I've had. And, and the reason, for a lot of reasons, one is that we just don't have that quality time with our grandparents growing up in the US. I can see that we're very nuclear here.

00:03:01.850 - 00:03:12.660

And you know, we value our local family our nuclear family. The extended family, which is something that's a little cultural, in Asian communities is, is not as commonplace here.

00:03:12.660 - 00:03:25.670

And so, especially for us immigrant families, where many of our extended family lives across the world, or even across the United States, in different places. You know, having that time in hindsight, was really amazing.

00:03:25.710 - 00:03:39.390

And so, yeah, so growing up there, my grandfather was a journalist, and my grandmother was, was not working. So she was home with us. And she actually passed away about two or three years after we had left

00:03:39.440 - 00:03:51.490

there. So it made it extra special to have that time with her while she was still with us. Yeah, so besides school, my brother and I would, my grandfather was a journalist for the national paper.

00:03:51.490 - 00:04:01.210

So we would, so in his post, he was a little bit of a prominent post. And so we would, you know, be able to spend vacation time in the mountains, and we would be able to go to the beach.

00:04:01.980 - 00:04:11.420

You know, we were somewhat affluent. In the mornings, we would— it's the Saturday and Sunday morning, we would go to the beach in the morning and take walks on the-the ocean, and we had a

00:04:11.820 - 00:04:27.090

really nice time. And, you know, so being at that age, my brother was three years younger than me. We both really enjoyed that experience. That's wonderful. And do you remember some of the food that your

00:04:27.410 - 00:04:45.030

grandparents have made you during that time? Yeah, so we, so growing up, we were in a vegetarian family. And so the typical typical meal for us would be a vegetable, along with the rice and a bean, which is dahl, so it's

00:04:45.330 - 00:04:59.720

a lentil based bean and you mix everything together. And then after that, you'd have another dish with rice and with yogurt, called ___ saddam . And that along with the vegetable as well, that was the main dish we used to have pretty much all

00:04:59.720 - 00:05:11.260

the time; and sometimes you'd have what's called chapati, which are basically like tortillas here; but you could do the same thing with a dip it with the dahl, and dip it with the rice and dip it with, I mean, with the yogurt and

00:05:11.260 - 00:05:23.910

the vegetables. And that was much of the meal. I think Western meals were just coming there at the time, I still remember the first Domino's that opened up, you know, on the down— not that far away from us.

00:05:23.910 - 00:05:35.940

And I remember having that pizza, thinking this tastes nothing like what I was used to eating back in the United States. But yeah, pretty traditional meals. Sweets were kind of a treat.

00:05:35.940 - 00:05:50.040

We loved ice cream, I think Indians tend to love ice cream. And so I remember finishing a lot of meals and saving room for-for ice cream. And Indian ice cream is just so delicious, because it's so creamy. And so it was always a treat to have ice cream after meals.

00:05:51.640 - 00:06:10.180

Do you think having that unique bonding with your Indian culture and your grandparents kind of impacted the shape— and shaped your as who you are today? I do I think I speak the language more fluently, because of my

00:06:10.220 - 00:06:22.500

time there, as certainly growing up here, I don't think I would have really been as fluent with the language, I think the culture. You know, growing up, even after we came back to the United States, when my mom was working, we'd still go to India in

00:06:22.500 - 00:06:33.240

the summers. And she would work as, in the school system. So she would have the summers off. So most of the summers, my brother and I until we were in high school, we would kind of ship off with my mom to

00:06:33.240 - 00:06:45.320

India and spend a couple months there. And so having that connection with India, I think really reinforced the culture, reinforced the language. And definitely made me appreciate more what I have just going to a

00:06:45.430 - 00:06:57.640

place where, you know, people struggle a little bit more. I mean, you can see it, it's so crowded, there is, you know, the housing is not as easy for for many people and people live in smaller places.

00:06:57.640 - 00:07:08.980

And having maids you know, having so much help around I think makes me appreciate a lot more of what you have. And I think that definitely impacted how I grew up, and you know, how my values are today.

00:07:13.440 - 00:07:30.990

And can you share with us some of the childhood games that you play? Yeah, um, so we, so in the US, of course, I was really my parents made sure that we were into sports. And so I remember doing soccer, pretty much as long as I could remember.

00:07:30.990 - 00:07:39.780

It was a fall sport in Ohio. And so every fall, we would have my brother and I would be playing soccer. And then the winters, we would try basketball and

00:07:39.780 - 00:07:51.330

spring, we'd do tennis. And, um, my mom really pushed us into swimming. Especially me. I had asthma growing up. And so, really severe asthma, I’d get asthma attacks.

00:07:51.330 - 00:08:04.360

And so, she had read somewhere that when you do swimming, you help your breathing quite a bit. And so she pushed me to swim, kind of year-round, and I ended up swimming all through high school even on the high school team.

00:08:04.480 - 00:08:16.840

And I think that really helped a lot. Besides sports, as a family, we would do games like, you know, Pictionary. Scrabble was pretty popular in our house.

00:08:17.200 - 00:08:29.520

I’m trying to think what else? We weren't so much a card family. I mean Uno, I think we'd play Uno as a family but we weren't big into playing cards, like my wife's family is.

00:08:30.220 - 00:08:39.920

And, um, tennis once. My brother and I both got into tennis. I remember a lot of weekends, we would bike to the tennis courts and play tennis against one another.

00:08:39.920 - 00:08:55.190

And so we had that outlet together. How about back in India, were you like kind of introduced, during that two and a half years, introduced to new local games that you weren't aware of when you were back in India— or

00:08:55.190 - 00:09:07.140

when you back in the US? You know, I think I was probably a little young to do it because this was third and fourth grade. And so in fifth grade, I think I remember playing cricket in the streets.

00:09:07.690 - 00:09:16.730

You know, right in front of our house. It was all the neighborhood kids would get together, and we'd set up a cricket court. But I think I was probably really too young to really partake in that.

00:09:18.300 - 00:09:35.780

I don't remember sports being as big a thing. You know, at that time when I was in India, at least at my age, I'm sure. Thank you. And next on to the chapter of your life in

00:09:35.780 - 00:09:53.700

the US, did your parents kind of spoke of why they moved to the US? So my father is an engineer, and in the 1970s there was a big migration of Indians coming into the United

00:09:53.700 - 00:10:06.220

States. I think it's, I don't know, factually or not, but it's called the 'brain drain' as a may have you may have heard or ever heard the term. And so many professionals, doctors, engineers, the

00:10:07.040 - 00:10:18.340

mathematicians, researchers really came over from India, and my father came over for graduate studies in Tulane in New Orleans. And um, you

00:10:18.340 - 00:10:32.310

know, at that time, it was common for a lot of graduate students to come over and study here. And many of my friends growing up, their parents also came over around the same time. And so at that time, you came for studies.

00:10:32.310 - 00:10:47.070

And then after he finished his master's degree and got a job, he went back to India and had the arranged marriage with my mom. And then my mom came over with him. The rest is history. And so she had finished her bachelor's in India and

00:10:47.390 - 00:11:00.120

for her, I think she always wanted to be someone working and not be just, you know, at home with the children. And so for her, it was a pretty big decision to send us to India so she could, you know, complete her bachelor's and

00:11:00.120 - 00:11:15.520

master's and go back to school. But I think for them, yeah, it was a big thing. And even at that time for my mom to marry my father, it was culturally it was, you know, among that group, more educated group, it was

00:11:16.000 - 00:11:28.580

a prestigious thing, like, you know, my dad's studying in the United States, he's going to work in the United States, why don't you marry him and move over there to get a better life. And so I think it was always a preferred thing for-for women

00:11:28.580 - 00:11:43.370

to marry into someone who's studying abroad and to come abroad. Did they bring you up with any spirituality that, or kind of that backdrop of any religious views?

00:11:45.050 - 00:11:59.480

Yeah, we, you know, I think they were open, I think they struggled with coming to the new country, and how much of her, their old culture to adopt. And so definitely, we grew up, and plus, at that time, there were not many

00:11:59.480 - 00:12:12.560

Indians, I mean, Indians were just coming over around that time. So, I remember the big temple was in Pittsburgh, and that was the first temple in the United States. And it was a big, big deal, and so every year, we would drive

00:12:12.560 - 00:12:24.810

about seven hours to go there. And, you know, it was fun to see other Indian kids and to see people who look like you. And then we'd go back to our small town in Richmond, Indiana, where, you know, we were

00:12:24.810 - 00:12:37.330

probably the only Indians or one of very few Indians in that town. And people, you know, didn't look too different, and they didn't ask a lot of questions, and so on, so forth. So we had that spirituality at home.

00:12:37.370 - 00:12:50.360

But of course, we didn't have that group, like a church or anywhere where you could go on regular basis. By the time we moved to Ohio, this was 1990s, the community was a lot bigger, and there was a temple there.

00:12:50.550 - 00:13:03.880

And um, so growing up, we would go to the temple once or twice a month, typically Saturday, Sundays, and we would mingle with other kids, we would take some of the classes to learn about mythology and about spirituality

00:13:03.880 - 00:13:15.570

in Hinduism. And of course, my dad and mom were a little more involved, and they would take some leadership roles within the community. And I think that helped kind of foster that sense.

00:13:16.040 - 00:13:29.890

But, I think still, to this day, I don't know if it's as rooted in the sense that we, you know, we knew that there was spirituality, but I think my parents still wanted us to be more worldly and to learn about other cultures, and we weren't

00:13:30.480 - 00:13:40.300

so centric within Hinduism view. And so I still have this view where I believe in kind of the big picture of spirituality, but not really central to one particular ethos.

00:13:40.300 - 00:13:56.440

And I think that really comes from my parents being more accepting of other religions and other, you know, other practices. Yeah, thank you for sharing. And, and you spoke of the town Richmond doesn't

00:13:56.800 - 00:14:09.190

have a lot of diversity. Can you share with us? What were their kind of the demographics like over there and what was their religious demographics like as well?

00:14:10.860 - 00:14:26.750

Yeah, so Richmond is a small town, or at least in the 70s, 80s when I was there, and I'm sure it still is today, but it's between Indianapolis, which is the large city in Indiana, and Dayton, which is the closest city right across

00:14:27.120 - 00:14:37.520

the border in, in Ohio. And it's about one hour equidistant between those two kind of larger cities. And so it was a small town. Certainly.

00:14:38.540 - 00:14:49.410

There was a couple factories there. I think one was the fiberglass-producing factory installation, which is where my dad worked, called Manville. And it was, you know, fairly working class town,

00:14:50.160 - 00:15:06.160

definitely predominantly white. I know, even looking back at my old yearbooks from that time, I know for sure that we were one of the only Indian families there, and so I-I know growing up, I still remember that, um, get a lot

00:15:06.160 - 00:15:18.810

of questions. And my mom when she would walk around in her sari or her ethnic outfits, I would be a little embarrassed and a little shy about my background because I wanted to fit in so much with the other people around.

00:15:20.320 - 00:15:38.740

But I imagined that the majority of people there were, were probably Christian and going to church. And that was just the way of life. As you were talking about that, that reminded me of the TV series, Never

00:15:38.740 - 00:15:50.700

Have I Ever. Oh, yeah. Uh-huh. Yeah, to it what do you think of it? Does that kind of resonate with your upbringing experiences? Yeah, actually really did, um, we- I don't think we finished the whole series but we

00:15:50.700 - 00:16:04.700

definitely watched a few episodes. And yeah, it was, it was pretty interesting to watch. And I think nowadays, a lot of the TV series that even my children watch that have Indian characters, they have some of the same

00:16:05.700 - 00:16:14.920

backgrounds and beliefs. And I don't know if-if my children being, I guess, third generation, how they they feel, if they feel the same way. But yeah, definitely.

00:16:15.260 - 00:16:27.570

I agree. The stereotype. Yeah. And moving on to your school life. What were your favorite subjects back then? And can you share

00:16:27.570 - 00:16:44.240

with us some of your memories in school? Yeah, I mean, I think growing up, now moving more into where I was in Ohio, which is really where I spend most of my time. I really, I think, had a fondness for math and science and

00:16:44.240 - 00:16:57.030

biology. And I think, you know, my parents coming here, and my dad being in the engineering discipline, I think of cer- sure had a big influence on that. And so I tended to like those.

00:16:57.030 - 00:17:09.510

I really liked all of school. And I remember I didn't miss a day of high school, I loved going to school, I enjoyed learning. And so I enjoyed reading, I liked language, honestly, I really think I

00:17:09.510 - 00:17:22.580

liked everything. And so was little bit of a difficult decision kind of deciding on what to study. And I had a lot of options, finishing high school, on what to do. And even to this day, I still feel like I'm fairly

00:17:23.800 - 00:17:39.880

well-rounded. I really liked learning about a lot of things and studying different things. That’s wonderful. Then, have you had any, like, sports that you were excelling in, during the school life?

00:17:41.340 - 00:17:57.620

Um, yeah, I mean, I think the biggest for me music was-was the strongest-strongest discipline. So I started the cello in, I think, end of around fifth grade, when we came back from India. And it was before, most of the

00:17:57.680 - 00:18:08.600

schools actually had cello within the school, and the middle school, there was school orchestra here. And so when I started middle school, I'd already had lessons in the cello. And so I was ahead of my peers.

00:18:08.600 - 00:18:21.280

And I think that really helped make me more interested in the music because I was already, you know, sitting in the front and playing solos, and already ahead of everyone else. And so that was really what I continued.

00:18:21.280 - 00:18:30.850

And all throughout middle school and high school here, I would play not just with the school, but with the local city youth orchestras, and I would, you know, do competitions.

00:18:30.850 - 00:18:44.740

And that was what I really excelled the most in. And not surprisingly, when I started college, I actually started off as a music major and wanted to study in music. Within sports, I really— tennis and swimming were my main

00:18:44.810 - 00:19:00.510

two sports and continued those throughout high school, and was able to get varsity letter. And in high school though I'd say I was not the best in either one, I was certainly good enough to make the team but not always the most excelling in those

00:19:00.510 - 00:19:16.590

sports. But I think as far as the career goes, somewhere, I think around ninth grade, so maybe when I was 14 or 15, you know, I had this, I think personality that was more gentle and more caring.

00:19:16.590 - 00:19:28.190

And so my mom had in the back of my mind that maybe you should consider a career in medicine. And we did not have, obviously, any physicians in the family. And so it was interesting to think about that.

00:19:28.190 - 00:19:43.640

And so she kind of pushed me to shadow some of the local doctors, you know, other Indians in the community who are physicians, and so I would do that. I would take my cello and go play at the nursing home and play for patients just so that I could learn a little bit more about what it's

00:19:43.640 - 00:19:58.390

like to be taking care of other people. And so I think around 16, I decided that that's what I wanted to do for my career. That's wonderful. And I think, I mean, just from my knowledge that

00:20:00.030 - 00:20:10.480

the-the Texas Medical Center is also having some musical events in a lobby of the-the hospitals. It's really— Yeah. Yeah.

00:20:10.590 - 00:20:27.470

And yeah, so kind of going from music to medicine, like as your passion kind of shows, did you feel like, as of now, you have any, like regrets of shifting that career path? No, not at all, actually.

00:20:27.470 - 00:20:41.570

I really— the two complement one another in the sense that, you know, the music is an outlet for medicine. I think a lot of my colleagues who I still play with in- so I played in the Texas

00:20:41.570 - 00:20:57.990

Medical Center Orchestra here, and I've done a lot of other collaborations with other people in healthcare who are also musicians. And I think it's nice that I have the outlet. And I think the, obviously the other alternative would have

00:20:57.990 - 00:21:11.180

been to be a musician, foremost, as a first career since I started college as a music major, and even at the end of high school was contemplating going to a full music school, to study music with, you know, some of the great

00:21:11.180 - 00:21:27.280

teachers. But I think the, the lifestyle of being in medicine, and being a physician, and the salary and of course, is a little bit better than a musician, and it would have been a lot harder to earn a living as a musician.

00:21:27.750 - 00:21:39.340

And so I think I love music, and I'm passionate about it, but I don't think that, one, was passion enough to make it my first career, and I enjoy that I can still do music, even having a career

00:21:39.570 - 00:21:54.210

in something else. Is there like a kind of a trigger or a turning point, or like when you're kind of in that moment of decision? Yeah, so.

00:21:54.900 - 00:22:10.420

So I'll tell you, I so I was finishing high school, I had a lot of different interests, as I mentioned. And so the three colleges I remember looking at, one was a music school, it was in Baltimore, called the Peabody Conservatory. And it was a very rigorous music school.

00:22:10.420 - 00:22:24.060

I mean, the people, it's like Juilliard, or any of the top music schools. And it was really aimed towards turning out musicians. And I'd met with them. And they had the option where I could take pre-medical classes at a local

00:22:24.060 - 00:22:40.290

university. And so I could still be a musician, but do this on the side. And then the other school I was looking at was actually the Air Force Academy in Colorado, which was not so much musical, really, it was just more of a, it was a good place to train.

00:22:40.290 - 00:22:51.820

And of course, doing in the military, I could almost get into medical school, like almost a guaranteed path to medical school with-with the certain grades and whatnot.

00:22:51.820 - 00:23:06.020

And so the third one I looked at was in Ohio, in Cleveland, called Case Western. And that's where I ended up selecting. And I was able to do music through the Cleveland Institute of Music, which is a really great music school there, and still get my degree from Case Western.

00:23:06.020 - 00:23:19.340

And so it really seemed the best of both worlds because I could do music and also still get a degree from a very top institution. And while I was there, I was even part of the ROTC, which is the Air Force Junior

00:23:19.850 - 00:23:36.990

Training Corps. So I was able to go there and really mix all these three places together. And so it made the decision fairly easy. Interestingly, during the first semester of school, I was in music class and the teacher asked us to sing out loud in

00:23:36.990 - 00:23:50.900

front of all the students a piece of music, and I'd-I hate singing, I'd never sang before. And I was so nervous, and I really hated him so I was afraid that for the next four years, I'd be having to do this more often. And so the next

00:23:50.900 - 00:24:03.350

day, I remember going and changing my major, said, "I don't want to be a music major, I just want to play in the orchestra while I'm there." And I switched to chemical engineering right away. And so I ended up studying chemical engineering while I was there and doing

00:24:03.350 - 00:24:18.720

pre-medical classes as well. Yeah, that-that's amazing that you're able to kind of weave so many different skills and passion in your life into your own life history.

00:24:19.380 - 00:24:31.890

And I'm also curious, why did you decide to choose internal medicine and then nephrology? Yeah, internal medicine is, you know, I just, it's a very broad discipline.

00:24:32.580 - 00:24:44.800

So within the medical field, once you finish medical school, you know, you get to choose what you want to do for the rest of your career. And it was a hard decision for me because I really loved all my rotations.

00:24:44.800 - 00:24:55.520

I loved obstetrics quite a bit. I loved delivering babies and, you know, I loved surgery. Of course, I didn't like the long hours and being stuck in the operating room but I

00:24:55.520 - 00:25:05.490

enjoyed being able to do something with my hands and, um, pediatrics. I knew I didn't want to do pediatrics, but I liked really a lot of the disciplines. So internal medicine is very broad.

00:25:05.940 - 00:25:16.600

And I knew I could join that. And when I was in internal medicine, I knew that it was just so broad that I wanted to be a specialist in something else. I didn't want to just be such a broad general physician.

00:25:16.600 - 00:25:30.700

And so I think nephrology appealed to me because the patients that we took care of some of them were very sick, and we would see them in the intensive care unit and others were really not as sick and you can see them in clinic and you could have this

00:25:30.720 - 00:25:43.040

good relationship with patients, you would see them for the rest of their life. And, you know, I enjoyed the chemistry, I mean nephrology is a lot of sodiums and potassiums and being a chemical engineer background, I think that appealed to me a little bit as well.

00:25:43.090 - 00:25:55.060

And so I think those things really helped me decide on-on nephrology and just watching some of the nephrologists in the training program, and how they were able to make diagnosis and how they were, you know,

00:25:55.060 - 00:26:08.930

really humanistic, as well as very cerebral. I think that appealed to me as well. And so I ended up choosing nephrology, and I trained at Baylor in the medical center and ended up just staying on

00:26:09.330 - 00:26:22.800

for my fellowship training, after residency. And then I really been at Baylor for the last 11 years. And so even after finishing, I just decided to stay on as a faculty position. And this June, I'll be moving out of Baylor actually,

00:26:23.090 - 00:26:34.640

for the first time in almost 20 years. And so it's-it's been a long road here. I really love the Medical Center. I love Baylor, it's been a great place to train, of course, and a

00:26:34.640 - 00:26:49.470

great place to work. And, you know, excited for just trying something new in the next month or two. I understand you're taking a graduate course at the University of Houston. Is that the reason you're moving

00:26:49.520 - 00:27:01.280

on? Uh, partly. Yeah. So two years ago, I started a master's program in education. I think since starting my career at Baylor, I really love teaching and focus my

00:27:01.410 - 00:27:12.640

teaching on students, on residents, on fellows, really all faces, nurses, pretty much anybody. And I think that's the part of my job. Of course, I love patient care, which is most of

00:27:12.640 - 00:27:25.470

what I do. But teaching, preparing curriculums, giving lectures, you know, speaking, I enjoyed that a lot. And so, two years ago, I decided to take on a master's in education, because I think that is something that was lacking

00:27:26.150 - 00:27:40.180

from my portfolio. And in doing so, in October, there was a job opening with the University of Houston with the residency training program, which is going to be up in North Houston.

00:27:40.180 - 00:27:56.680

And so I really just sent in my CV, I met with them, I had no intention of leaving, I just wanted to really explore the option a little bit more. And I think as I learned more about it, I realized this is a kind of once in a lifetime opportunity.

00:27:56.680 - 00:28:08.470

It's a brand new medical school, it's a brand new residency program. You know, I can really design what I want the learners to learn, as opposed to being at Baylor, where things were kind of set up, I mean, there's definitely things you

00:28:08.470 - 00:28:21.060

can do here that are different, but you wouldn't have this kind of opportunity to really build something new and to, and I think as you get older, you want to leave some legacy behind. And that's what I'm hoping this will be, that this will be a

00:28:21.310 - 00:28:38.990

program that I could start and you know, always have this is something wonderful that I've done for the city. Yeah, that's amazing. And from the HAAA, we're also honored to be- being able to document and sharing

00:28:39.480 - 00:28:57.030

your legacy. And I'm also curious, comparing teaching and, and doing surgical tasks in your professional career. How do you compare the two, and does the two like, complement

00:28:57.030 - 00:29:12.750

one another and your job? They do. I think when you teach you have to whether you're teaching procedure skills, or you're teaching patient care at the bedside, or you're teaching in a lecture hall, you need to

00:29:12.750 - 00:29:24.900

really follow the same steps, which is knowing who your audience is, knowing what they need to know, knowing how much time you have to teach, and finding out where you can teach and how you can teach it.

00:29:25.370 - 00:29:37.970

You know, for example, at the bedside of a patient, you know, sometimes you can teach in front of the patient and point out certain physical exam findings on the patient, a rash or an abnormal sound in the heart.

00:29:38.700 - 00:29:48.170

But other times, you know, you may have to step away and do that teaching outside the patient's room. And I think those things complement one another. And so being an educator

00:29:49.000 - 00:30:03.700

in healthcare, it is a lot about not just teaching and being passionate about it, but knowing how to teach and the most effective way to teach a group of learners, and I think that's something that really compliments one another,

00:30:03.700 - 00:30:23.000

regardless of what, where you are. That's wonderful. And I guess moving on to a little bit of your personal side, I see that you have been married. Can you share with us a little bit about how you met your wife?

00:30:24.500 - 00:30:36.600

Uh yeah. So we- my wife grew up in Saudi Arabia. And she is also Indian origin. Her parents are from South India, but they're from another state in South India.

00:30:36.600 - 00:30:47.460

And so she grew up, although she was Indian, she grew up in a different- her family's from a different state. They're Christian instead of Hindu. And they speak a different language than, than my parents do.

00:30:47.460 - 00:31:00.430

Or what I grew up speaking, they speak Malayalam. And so we, we both met during college, we were both at Case Western. So we met almost the first day of school, age 18.

00:31:01.340 - 00:31:17.480

And, you know, we'd really been together this whole time. And so throughout college, you know, on and off, but mostly on. And once we went to medical school, I started medical school in Ohio because I was a state resident, and it's very easy

00:31:17.810 - 00:31:29.740

when you're a state resident to get into the school in your state. And she was a Texas state resident, and so she came to Baylor. And we did long distance relationship for a couple years. And once we decided that this is how

00:31:29.920 - 00:31:45.110

we want to make it work, I had to transferred out to Baylor and so finished my medical school at Baylor and stayed on since. And so we both had really been here in Houston since about 2003 together, so almost 20 years.

00:31:45.200 - 00:31:59.130

And she's also a physician, she, you know, works in anesthesiology, and we had our first child in 2009. And then again, 2012, and

00:31:59.130 - 00:32:15.390

2017. So we have three children now, and we really enjoy being parents, we enjoy, you know, we have, of course, as growing up from 18 onwards, we have a lot of similarities. And you know, our personalities fit very well, it

00:32:15.390 - 00:32:31.390

wasn't so much of an adjustment because we kind of grew up together, so to speak. And so we enjoy socializing, I think we both enjoy having friends over or you know, going out to the park and meeting people and interacting a

00:32:31.450 - 00:32:46.800

lot. So many of our weekends, we end up inviting people or going to people's houses and getting together. We both play tennis, we have a lot of similarities in the sense that we- both our families are Indian.

00:32:46.800 - 00:32:59.960

So of course the cultural background is important. And so we've gone to India several times, we've gone back with our children, we enjoy going back to India and teaching our children about the Indian culture,

00:32:59.960 - 00:33:10.850

we- she cooks very well, and so she cooks Indian food at home. The big difference would be that culturally, even though we're both Indian, and we look similar, we have the same

00:33:10.850 - 00:33:26.680

skin color and everything, we both grew up speaking different languages. And so we have not really taught our kids consciously any of the languages, my language or hers. And I think growing up because I grew up Hindu and

00:33:26.680 - 00:33:40.470

she grew up Christian, we're raising the children as Christians, but the church that they go to is predominantly Western church. And so the kids are growing up knowing some Indian children in the church, but the majority of

00:33:40.860 - 00:33:56.660

people in the church are, you know, white, or they grew up in this country without that different background of being Indian. So it's-it's an interesting time, I think our kids definitely identify as Indian, and we look Indian and

00:33:56.660 - 00:34:11.430

having both parents Indian makes them feel very Indian. But a lot of their friends really aren't Indian in the sense that growing up for me and for my wife, our parents' generation, really did mingle more with Indians.

00:34:11.430 - 00:34:26.410

And so our dinner parties as a child and hers, similarly, were mostly with Indian families and a lot of our friends growing up were of Indian-Indian origin. Do you think what your

00:34:27.190 - 00:34:43.030

children in their third generation experiences and your own experiences as a second generation, about a few decades ago, would have changed very much? Like how would you compare the

00:34:43.180 - 00:34:59.790

generational experiences and diaspora as Indians and diaspora here? Ah, yeah, I think it's, it's different. I do think that second generations have more of a connection with the

00:35:00.610 - 00:35:15.530

with India or with where their parents came from. I think that, for a lot of reasons, I, you know, I think the culture is stronger, the, the language may be stronger, the values, of course, are still there, but the values were stronger

00:35:15.880 - 00:35:32.660

before the work hard mentality, the focus on the sciences, you know, kind of the very traditional type of learning and, moving forward, I think it's a little different, of course, we do try and impart some of the cultures and the

00:35:32.660 - 00:35:45.450

values to our children. But I think as they grew up in the United States, and are third generation, the connection to India is definitely less than it was before.

00:35:45.660 - 00:35:59.870

And I think that's normal. I think that's part of assimilation, part of moving in with the, with the new culture is that you, your identities a little bit different, you may identify more as American than Indian,

00:36:00.290 - 00:36:14.190

whereas I still myself feel that I would say I'm more of an Indian American than, than I guess, an American Indian, or vice versa. So I think my children have more of that, you know, we, of course, try and put some of

00:36:14.190 - 00:36:31.830

our values with the children, but I know that, that we're not, they don't see from us the type of struggles that myself or my parents have coming here, you know, going through school, while my chil- my, while my brother and I were young, coming in not knowing anybody in that foreign country, and

00:36:32.440 - 00:36:49.250

going back, and, you know, all that I think, is, is not going to be there, and that's gonna affect how they grow up. Yeah, totally. And I'm also curious, since you mentioned your parents are, were arranged marriage.

00:36:50.460 - 00:37:05.930

And have they kind of had discussions with you regarding your marriage, which sounded like it was non-arranged since you guys met in college? Like did-did you and your parents have kind of sometimes disagreement or challenges

00:37:06.320 - 00:37:22.960

in that, in that topic? Yeah, it's been... so I think growing up, we really did not have much discussion, I think in traditional that generation, dating was not something that we discussed openly.

00:37:22.960 - 00:37:34.990

And so I really did not have much experience with dating and, and meeting girls, while I was in my parents' house, and though, we did things a little behind the back, it wasn't as open discussion.

00:37:34.990 - 00:37:52.730

And so I think when I met my wife at a young age, and we knew it was serious, there was definitely some, some disagreement once my parents knew that, you know, we were planning to get married, and she has a different background, a different religion, you know, from a

00:37:52.730 - 00:38:06.710

different part of India. And so, I think their concerns looking back now is, one is that how are you going to raise your children? You know, how are you gonna instill in the same cultures when you have someone from a

00:38:06.710 - 00:38:21.720

different background, and that struggle was certainly there even through the early part of our marriage. My brother, he actually did have more of a traditional arranged marriage. He, certainly she, his wife also grew up

00:38:21.720 - 00:38:34.540

in the United States, but same background, same religion, same culture. And so the parents that introduced the two and they decided to get married on their own, but it was more of a modern arranged marriage, so to speak, as

00:38:34.540 - 00:38:48.070

compared to my wife and I. And so I think the struggles are there, I'm sure they still are there, things maybe a little bit better today than they were 10 years ago, or 15 years ago, between my parents and my wife.

00:38:48.780 - 00:39:00.710

But, you know, I think that's probably to be expected. And I think moving forward, it's probably helped me because when my children come to that age, I think we'll be more tolerant and more accepting of,

00:39:01.180 - 00:39:17.880

of who they choose. Do you think if I can kind of probe deeper, like, which one works better: the arrange or the non-arranged way? Yeah, I don't know.

00:39:18.480 - 00:39:33.380

It depends, I guess it really depends on how you define works better, I think arranged marriage has worked well for, for most of the generations ahead of us. I would say for that generation and for

00:39:33.640 - 00:39:50.060

generations and generations before them, that the couples tend to stay together more, the divorce rate is low. I think the values are similar, and so the children grow up with similar type of values with respect to how they you

00:39:50.060 - 00:40:06.860

know, treat others, the focus on-on the, the, called the grandparents accepting extended families, that are taking care of elders, you know, all those kind of traditional values that are maybe Asian as we think of them, and I think

00:40:06.860 - 00:40:20.170

that's great. But of course, the downside is that my parents don't always have the same similarities. And my mom loves to exercise and to, to work out. And, you know, I think she would have liked if my dad was more into

00:40:20.230 - 00:40:32.420

physical sports, because then they could go play tennis together or go play, you know, other kind of sporting activities together. I think, personality, my mom is maybe more social than my dad

00:40:32.420 - 00:40:44.470

is. And so things like that, both aren't gonna always be there. Whereas with my wife and I, think we have a pretty good relationship in the sense that we really like, a lot of the same things.

00:40:46.230 - 00:41:06.650

But, you know, I don't know if one is necessarily better than the other. Thank you very much for indulging me with that answer. And I'm also curious with the your professional life, you have achieved tremendously as you're, like,

00:41:07.580 - 00:41:26.390

the world certificates behind you, and your resume is like, amazing. Can you share with us a little bit about your, your perspectives on kind of considered the model minority as a, we Asians are like, a lot of the times

00:41:27.550 - 00:41:41.810

labeled that, like, kind of label? Oh, you mean as overachievers? And— Yeah. Like very successful immigrants and the model minority? Like, do you— what, what are your

00:41:41.810 - 00:41:57.010

thoughts? And if you identify with that label? Yeah, I do. I mean, I think it's, it's a couple of reasons. I mean, I think a large part of it is genetics. You know, if you think about who migrated over, it's really not the

00:41:57.940 - 00:42:11.660

people who, you know, the people that came over came over as professionals, they were already hard working. And I think, you know, it goes without saying that to be the best in India or to be the best in China or to be the best in any other country is a

00:42:11.660 - 00:42:27.090

lot harder than it is in the United States, there's a lot more competition for fewer spots. And so I think it's, you know, over time, the people that came over already had a little bit easier time of

00:42:27.190 - 00:42:40.450

learning how to study, learning how to excel in, in, you know, the maths and the sciences and the other disciplines. So I think we had that. And on top of that, of course, the-the culture of your parents coming over and

00:42:40.450 - 00:42:53.700

working hard. And, you know, I think that's there in my parents' generation, with-with me and my parents. And I think my kids also see that because both of us are physicians, we work long hours, you know, I'm in school right

00:42:53.700 - 00:43:07.530

now. And so my kids have seen me come home and do my classes. And so I think they'll also have that work ethic that, you know, life doesn't end at a certain time. I mean, you have to keep learning, keep being in school, keep furthering yourself,

00:43:08.100 - 00:43:23.960

you know, volunteering to lead things, and to be a community leader. And I think that's propelled me a lot in my career is that I want to take on responsibilities; I want to do the best. And now that I'm above age 40, and kind of

00:43:23.960 - 00:43:37.680

hitting that middle of my career, I'm now thinking more about what I want to leave behind. And what I want to focus the next 15 to 20 years on, and that's where I think the idea of legacy is, and, you know, I think it's natural

00:43:37.680 - 00:43:52.940

that where I am today, I know that where I want to be in 15 to 20 years and kind of what I want to be remembered for, after I retire and, you know, maybe even after I'm gone. And I think a lot of that is, it's just, it takes time to

00:43:52.940 - 00:44:08.140

build up, it takes effort, it takes that pushing yourself to do this, to have that vision of where you want to be in. And I hope that my kids see that. And they'll also get to this point where they want to, to excel at everything and

00:44:08.140 - 00:44:25.140

take on your responsibilities and see how they can be the best in their particular field. Yeah, that's really inspiring. And I'm not sure since your kids are probably still

00:44:25.140 - 00:44:40.110

relatively young, but have you had any kind of discussions with their identity in terms of, as they're in their Indian kind of origin and cultural heritage in terms of how to,

00:44:41.780 - 00:44:59.950

how to identify themselves and so on? Uh yeah, I think we, we do, we, I, so my in-laws live in Houston, and my wife's parents are here, and my parents visit from Ohio and may move back here soon.

00:44:59.950 - 00:45:14.230

I moved to Houston so, and so in that sense when we get together once a week or so, as a family, we are typically enjoying an Indian meal of Indian food, we celebrate some of the holidays.

00:45:14.230 - 00:45:28.340

And in those turn, we wear traditional Indian clothes, my children all have a drawer full of Indian outfits that, that they’re there. And when the school does international days, they're always representing their country of India.

00:45:28.340 - 00:45:40.030

And so they have this connection with India. And, you know, they've been back there a few times. But of course, it's nothing like me growing up, where we will go for months at a time when we go back.

00:45:40.090 - 00:45:53.180

Now, because of our work schedules, we go for two weeks, and you know, it's different. And of course, we go every few years instead of every year, and so they may not have the connection with India, and I can totally see that. Maybe

00:45:53.180 - 00:46:07.280

when they're older, they may not even go back to India, except maybe to visit on holiday once or twice in their life. So that culture is still there, that the love for the food, that identification of being an Indian is there with the

00:46:07.280 - 00:46:22.120

children, but I think that's something that is apart from the country of India, as, as the place to be in. And I think that's, that's expected, I expect my children may not

00:46:22.670 - 00:46:37.450

identify as fully as Indian, they may identify more as American, they may not marry someone who's of Indian origin. They, you know, certainly their children may less likely have some of the Indian cultures and values that we do, or that we're trying to

00:46:37.450 - 00:46:56.120

instill in them. Yeah, I'm also curious, since you mentioned that there were moments probably that you kind of slightly felt rejecting the Indian culture as, like parents wearing

00:46:56.520 - 00:47:16.380

the traditional Indian garments, Indian costumes. Whereas, do you see that, at some point, your children have also had that kind of discussions with you? I think so. They, you know, skin color is always a big thing with the younger kids.

00:47:16.380 - 00:47:28.090

And so the younger ones, and even my four year old, she's always, you know, talking about her brown skin, and why it's not white skin. And of course, you're going to see the movies, the TVs, and you'll see the

00:47:28.090 - 00:47:41.600

princesses, and I have all daughters. And so I think that is probably the first thing that they think of. But as they get older, my 12 year old, I think she's very accepting and of course very proud of her background.

00:47:42.320 - 00:47:57.870

And when she has her friends who are Indian, they have something in common that it's hard to describe in words. But when she has her friends who are non-Indian versus those who are Indian, I think there's some connection between her and her friends who

00:47:57.870 - 00:48:08.730

are Indian, that just has to do with the fact that the culture is a little bit different, I mean, culture is a little bit of the same. And so I think that tends to happen as the kids get a little bit older.

00:48:13.170 - 00:48:23.740

That's really interesting. And thank you for sharing that. And next, I'm also curious, what are some of the communities in Houston that you're a part of?

00:48:25.980 - 00:48:41.510

So we, we are part of a church community, and it's a large church, predominantly Caucasian, white, and it's an open minded church. And so our kids have grown up there being baptized and being part of the,

00:48:42.490 - 00:48:57.330

the youth group, the choirs, and, and I think it's a community that definitely I enjoy being a part of. Now we're very involved with their activities. And so sports, for example, I've coached numerous soccer teams for my

00:48:57.330 - 00:49:12.750

children. And so whenever they're part of sports, of course, not only are we participating by showing up and cheering them on, but often take on leadership roles within that as well. And I think as my

00:49:12.750 - 00:49:26.470

older one has been part of the Scouts for, for a few years, and so I've taken on some roles within the Scouts organization as well. With, specifically with regards to Asian organizations within the

00:49:26.470 - 00:49:39.680

community, we really don't have as much of an affiliation with any of them. And I think part of it is where we live, we live closer to Rice University, closer to

00:49:39.680 - 00:49:52.910

more, where there's not as many Indians. And of course we know the Indians where we live, but it's not in a neighborhood that we have so many Indians around us. And of course, I think not going to a temple, not having

00:49:52.910 - 00:50:11.000

that religious affiliation also makes it less likely for us to be part of an Indian organization or an Indian group where we're regularly meeting with other Indians and Indian children... And I would say part of that is probably

00:50:11.000 - 00:50:25.010

done on purpose in the sense that my wife, and me too, but more so with my wife, I think she wants to assimilate more with the culture here. And really not only fraternize with people that look similar.

00:50:28.560 - 00:50:39.640

I see, thank you for sharing that. And next, we're gonna shift gears a little bit to the moments we're in, the pandemic of 2020.

00:50:40.370 - 00:51:00.480

So how have you been since the uh — How has pandemic impacted your lifestyle? We've been very fortunate, for a lot of reasons. I mean, of course, health is the first thing. And second is employment, being in healthcare, we've been working the whole

00:51:00.480 - 00:51:13.410

time, in fact, maybe even working more during the pandemic. And so I think those things have, we've been very fortunate to have our health and to be still working and enjoying the same level of lifestyle.

00:51:15.370 - 00:51:28.530

The children, of course, I think they may react in different ways. But we have always pushed our children to get back to school sooner than later. So our kids have actually been in school, pretty much all year long, in person classes.

00:51:29.210 - 00:51:42.220

And so they've been, of course, wearing the mask and, and doing the distancing, but they're at least back with friends. And it feels almost like normal. I think so, for them.

00:51:43.290 - 00:51:57.680

So I think the pandemic has been something that we've grown from as a family, of course, we've spent more time together, we've really not mingled as much with others, at least the last eight or nine months as we used to.

00:51:58.920 - 00:52:13.920

So we've gotten a little bit closer; we've become more of a nuclear family. And that's been really nice. But at the same time, I think we are not maybe as isolated as other people are, or have been, for all these reasons, because we're

00:52:14.510 - 00:52:21.480

really not home. I mean we were both at work and we're both, the kids are all at school. So some of that has really not changed.

00:52:26.010 - 00:52:44.670

Has 2020 where the social justice events such as the death of George Floyd and amount of anti-Asian hate crimes, which is actually has extended to this year, and it's still rising, like, has it changed your opinions around

00:52:46.420 - 00:53:04.250

advocacy for, like, racial justice courses? I think it's made me more aware of these issues. I think that these issues have always been here. I don't think any of these are new issues.

00:53:04.310 - 00:53:22.390

And, you know, growing up in the 90s, when there was the riots in Los Angeles, after Rodney King, and, you know, the anti-Asian, anti-African Americans and black, I mean all these injustices have

00:53:22.390 - 00:53:36.070

always been there. And of course, growing up I remember actually in Indiana, that was, one of the homes of the KKK was close to where we were, that was like the central headquarters. And so learning what the Ku Klux Klan

00:53:36.070 - 00:53:50.460

were and you know, how they were really white supremacist organization, I kind of learned that at a young age, just growing up in Midwestern, away from a big city like Houston, where you walk around, and you see people of different color and different backgrounds every single day.

00:53:52.090 - 00:54:09.150

So I don't think that a lot of this is new, but I do value that this is coming to the forefront now. And I think that there's a lot that we can do as a society to, to make things better. And of course, the first thing is to have this open dialogue and to, to have this

00:54:09.150 - 00:54:23.000

so as the events have unfolded, we've had conversations with, really our older children. We have a 12 year old, a nine year old, who are more aware of some of these issues, and, you know, what they are and so I think that

00:54:23.090 - 00:54:38.380

they, you know, are, know a little bit more about what's going on, how important it is to understand the kind of privilege that we have. Having this, this pedigree of people who valued education and valued

00:54:38.380 - 00:54:54.840

employment and, you know, not everyone starts from the same place, it's a lot harder to move up in the society than it is to, to maintain your status quo. And, of course, the views of anti, the discriminatory views that people who look different from you

00:54:54.840 - 00:55:06.740

and lashing out at them, we you know, definitely tell them that-that's not right and point out examples. So that I think we, we're doing the best we can for us.

00:55:06.770 - 00:55:17.810

And, you know, hopefully, they get a lot of this at school too. You know, I know my sixth grader's learning about a lot of this in her classes, and they're having open discussions, and certainly my third grader as

00:55:17.840 - 00:55:34.560

well. So it's coming, not just from us, but from their school. That's wonderful to hear. And I'm also wondering if you, personally have been, like, kind of, kind of

00:55:34.560 - 00:55:56.380

experienced any of these racial injustice, like, either as the target or the kind of person, like a bystander, and in terms of, yeah, like, witnessing these events? I think, I know, I have, certainly if I

00:55:56.640 - 00:56:11.170

dig back in my history. I know I've been called names before. Especially, you know, by, when I was younger. I mean, growing up and when children were mean, and they taunted you and,

00:56:11.170 - 00:56:23.300

of course, I think all kids experienced that if they were obese, or if they looked funny, or if they had anything different. You know, of course, that was part of teasing. And, of course, for me, my teasing included teasing

00:56:23.710 - 00:56:39.010

because of the way you look, the way you dressed, where you're from. And so that was always there. But to be honest, I think my personality was that it didn't really affect me so much. And I think now, taking a lot of classes on these microaggressions and

00:56:39.010 - 00:56:53.650

learning about, you know, that it's not okay necessarily to ask people where they're from. Even if they look different, I think I was always asked that, and I never paid any attention to it, it didn't bother me like it maybe

00:56:54.050 - 00:57:05.960

bothers other people. You know, they look different. They don't want to be asked, “Where're you from?” Because they grew up in the United States, just like anyone else. But to me, you know, I would always just answer, “We're from India,” and

00:57:06.530 - 00:57:21.240

kind of give the explanation that they may, the person asking it may be expected to hear. But now with a lot of the political correctness, that I'm learning at work and learning in the media, that these things are really not supposed to be

00:57:21.240 - 00:57:35.000

asked nowadays. And so I think to answer your question, it definitely I've felt it, of course, not to the extent of the individuals that you read about and hear about the news. But I'm also, it's something that I don't dwell on and it

00:57:35.000 - 00:57:49.350

doesn't really bother me as much if people say anything to me. You can only control what you believe. And, and you know, you cannot, there's always going to be small-minded people out there, and there's

00:57:49.350 - 00:58:02.230

nothing you can do about that. Yeah, that's totally true. And I'm also curious, I didn't kind of ask this question back when we're talking about

00:58:02.230 - 00:58:20.490

your childhood, but wondering, what was the first moment that you kind of felt that you were different and understood that you are different from the people around you? Um, I think, I mean, the name is probably the first thing you know, anytime

00:58:21.000 - 00:58:32.290

you first go to school and you have to say your name and pronounce it and, you know, why can't your name be Fred or John or Joseph. That's the first thing. And so of course, having the name.

00:58:32.790 - 00:58:43.970

And then the second thing is just looking different. Having darker skin, black hair. You know you're different. And, you know, when you go to a room, and you're the only one who

00:58:43.970 - 00:58:56.370

looks a certain way, it is going to be there. It's maybe in the back of your mind, it may not be that people point it out to you, but of course, you're going to feel naturally that way. And so I would say the first time this happened,

00:58:56.820 - 00:59:08.510

it was probably when you first went to school in kindergarten, and they had trouble saying your name and would kind of ask you, “Oh where were you from? Where are your parents from?” I mean, that's the question that most

00:59:08.510 - 00:59:29.460

immigrants will always get right away. I'm also wondering, do you name your students- your children Indian names or, like, American names? So we, because they're raised Christian, we decided to name them

00:59:29.630 - 00:59:44.920

Indian first names, but then give a Christian middle name for them. And it was a decision that we of course thought a lot about before we, we did that and you know, in hindsight, I'm very happy with it that-that they have Indian

00:59:45.740 - 01:00:00.420

first names and of course, my wife is happy they have Christian middle names and so I think we have a good compromise with that. That's wonderful. And I guess as we are approaching the hour

01:00:00.840 - 01:00:14.040

and want to also be mindful of your time. Do you have anything that I haven't covered that you would like to be documented in your life history interview? Let me see, I printed the sheet

01:00:14.040 - 01:00:37.320

out... I don't, I guess the other big thing to just document is that it was always a little confusing. So the term Asian, you know, whether or not I'm Asian is always something

01:00:37.320 - 01:00:49.400

that's been questioned. I think the fact that growing up in the 1980s and 90s, here, the term Indian, of course, the-the younger children associate that with Native Americans.

01:00:50.050 - 01:01:02.150

And so when you say you're Indian, you know, people don't necessarily know, of course, the parents and older people may know that you're from the Indian subcontinent. And so the term Indian was a little bit confusing.

01:01:02.830 - 01:01:17.220

And I think now, it's more commonplace to say, Native Americans than Indians. And so that's kind of set out now. But then the term Asian oftentimes doesn't necessarily include people from India. When you think of Asian, a lot of times the thought is that people who

01:01:17.220 - 01:01:30.180

are from the other countries that are in the Asian subcontinent, or is not the Indian subcontinent itself. And so that's something that I don't know what the right answer is, of course, when we check the boxes on

01:01:30.180 - 01:01:43.060

any application, there's the box for Asian, and I always identify myself as Asian, but when you read the news, and of course, you're hearing a lot of this violence and these actions against Asians, they're really not talking

01:01:43.060 - 01:01:55.860

about Indians. They're talking about a different group of Asians. You know, I may identify with at some level, but I really don't know if that term includes me, as an Indian, someone from Indian origin.

01:02:00.130 - 01:02:14.210

Thank you. And I'm also wondering if you would like to leave a message for your children and your children's children and so on, and the future generations? Oh, that's putting on the spot.

01:02:15.550 - 01:02:34.120

I think it's important for, for our future generations to remember the sacrifice of all immigrants. And I think that's an important lesson that is easy to read about, but future generations may not

01:02:34.120 - 01:02:48.400

experience that. And it definitely is something that the immigrant story of coming with very little amount and, and working hard, and, and making something of yourself is a story that

01:02:49.590 - 01:03:03.250

future generations, at least my children and their children's children are not going to appreciate. Because, you know, we are already growing up, and my children are growing up in a family that's very affluent, two physician family, we

01:03:03.840 - 01:03:17.050

value education, we can afford vacations, we can afford a home in a nice neighborhood, we can afford almost anything. And growing up, any immigrant will tell you the same thing is that they do not always have that.

01:03:17.050 - 01:03:30.370

Even though my parents had professions, you know, of course, they had nothing like the lifestyle we have. We use coupons, you know, we still look twice at bills, going out to eat, things like that.

01:03:30.370 - 01:03:43.100

And so I think the message I'll just say is that future generations should always look at immigrants and look at their story, because there's a lot of sacrifice in leaving your home, leaving your country, and coming somewhere

01:03:43.100 - 01:03:55.830

new. And the immigrant story always involves working hard and making something of yourself. And as we always say, is, to know who you are today, you need to appreciate where you came

01:03:55.830 - 01:04:08.460

from. And I think for that reason, this is an important story to tell. And I hope all future generations will remember that no matter what generation you are, you have to remember that your story came, began with

01:04:08.460 - 01:04:24.800

people who left their home and came to a country with almost nothing and had to make something of themselves. Yeah, that's truly inspiring. And we're really honored to be witnessing this life

01:04:24.900 - 01:04:40.210

legacy project with you and be able to document your life history that has contributed so much to a country that is made up of immigrants. And yeah, and I'm sure your future generations will benefit from that, totally.

01:04:40.820 - 01:04:47.370

So thank you so much, Rajeev, for sharing this hour with me and, and we will get-get in touch soon about your ongoing projects. Sounds good. Thank you for including me and enjoy the rest of your day. Thank you.