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Today is January 17th, 2021. My name is Ann Shi. I'm interviewing Raj Salhotra on behalf of the Houston Asian American Archive.

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Thank you so much for joining us again, Raj! Absolutely. Thanks for having me, Ann! Thank you. So this is going to be a podcast episode on how Asian Americans understand and fall in

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love. So it's so fascinating that we were able to capture the love stories of your parents. And today, it's an amazing opportunity to learn about– learn about your love stories and perspectives on love and dating.

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Yeah. So can– can we—Can we share some of the stories of how like growing up, what are some of the expectations of love and marriage? Yeah, no, good question.

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I think for us, it was, we knew that our parents had– had an arranged marriage. I mean, that was something that was not frequently discussed, but– but certainly was something

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that was known. And I don't really think dating and, and... talking in general about marriage was something that was very common, when we were growing up. I mean, I just don't remember that as a

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common theme. But I do remember, of course, going to weddings of cousins and, and family members. And some of those would have been arranged marriages, but some would not have been so it really kind

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of varied. Thank you. And I guess so since you were talking about going to weddings, and seeing the love stories happen around you, what were some of the like, the most touching, or some of the most moving,

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and, or most memorable ones that you remember among your family? So last year, we had someone or maybe, maybe three years ago, we had someone who was family, he was in his la… 70s, maybe and

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had never had never married and recently got married. And so that was, that was pretty, pretty cool. And very unique. Hadn't seen that before.

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Um, I think for, you know, we had multiple cousins in Canada who got married. And there, there was a larger Indian community.

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And so it was pretty, pretty common for them to find someone kind of on their own, so to speak. But— and then and then just recently, a couple years ago, one of my cousin's who'd come here to study

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got married, and he married a non-South Asian. And so that was, that was another experience as well. Wow, that was super interesting.

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And I guess, since you also said that your parents probably haven't talked about love and marriage so much, what have been some of the influences or some of the ways you— in your childhoods or in your, in your upbringing in general, to understand the

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idea and value of love? So I think clearly, growing up, there was definitely the idea that love was something that was very

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palpable within the family. And so it's very clear that my parents, my sister, we have very deep roots— still do have obviously very deep relationships, and a lot of sacrifices were made for each other.

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So that aspect of love, Ann, was very, very apparent. I think, in terms of the romantic or marriage sense, I think there was I don't know if this quote was said— sort of how frequently but it certainly came up— as this

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notion of love will grow over time, after, you know, an arranged marriage perhaps happens. And so that that was sort of the extent I'm thinking in elementary, middle, you know, kind of high school even, that

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was sort of the extent to which the conversation revolved around love, with regard to the marriage since. Yeah, absolutely. Um, and I guess um, Mrs.

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Salhotra, your mother talked about, like the challenges since she went to school here in the US, and how challenging it has been in the dating culture. I’m wondering if that kind of story has happened to you as well?

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I think that's right. I think, I think for many so called "Hyphenated Americans", it is a bit of a challenge with regard to the dating, kind of cultural sense, because first of all, when I was in high school,

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there weren't that many South Asians to begin with. And of course, not to say that, you know, one can only or it would only, you know, be with other South Asians. But I think, I think first of all, there just

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weren't that many South Asians. So it's always just harder to first of all, find people who you can even relate your experience with, to have conversations with about, about what it is like to grow up as a South

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Asian here, whose parents grew up mostly, you know, in India; although my mom did come here when she was in her early teens. But so I think that's one. I think the second thing is, I think, if there

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is a conversation about things, it sort of normalizes it in some ways; and because we didn't— tend not to have so many conversations, it was a bit sort of less normalized, so to speak.

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And so that made it for sure, challenging. And then I think, I think the third was, you know, in the, the arena of my life, where I did have more South Asian colleagues and friends was through the temple.

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And many of those students did not go to high school where I did. And so as a result, I wasn't able to necessarily connect with and build the relationship with them so that we could have these very open dialogues; I didn't see

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them so often. And so I think as a result, it was– it was somewhat challenging, because you just didn't have the conversation to kind of normalize it, if that makes sense.

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Yeah, yeah, totally. Um, and I guess in, I guess, in a Asian family, it's also relatively, like, a lot of intimacy are not super— so much vocalize, but more like in the

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action through like cooking or caring for one another, which is totally understandable. I would say that's 100% right. Yeah. 100% right. Yeah, thank you for sharing that.

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And I guess, in your own, like, love story, would, would you share that whether you have dated out of your race or your religion? Yes, I have. Um, you know, and I think, I think it's obviously tough in that sense, but– but yes, I have

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both within and outside. That's correct. I see. And have you had any, like, kind of conversations or debates with your family because of that? 100%.

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I think that, you know, I think that they're, they come at it from the perspective of what they have seen. And they have seen in their own situation, you know, an arranged marriage, where the focus

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was on aligning the family background, most importantly, kind of worked. And they see their friends from a similar generation, both back home in India, and here, who have had a similar situation, and it has,

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"worked". And then I think there's a contrast with the, "American way of doing things" where someone find someone who they are compatible with directly. And they see, well, 50%— or whatever the number

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is— of American marriages end up in divorce. And so the conclusion is, well, the family background way, is superior.

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And don't worry about the kind of love piece because that will come with time. And I think what that view misses is two things.

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One, I think in the, in the certainly in India, and even that generation here of South Asians divorce was just not common. And so even if there were situations where

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that would have made sense, where-where someone, someone getting a divorce would have made sense. It just didn't happen because the two parties... it just kind of wasn't a thing. Right? And then the second

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thing, that that kind of comparison of "American way" versus "Indian way", it misses is that you want to consider both stability, of course, and compatibility,

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but also kind of a joy and happiness. And I think the "Indian way", kind of index is more for stability and alignment of important characteristics, but doesn't

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index as much for joy or happiness; whereas perhaps the, you know, "Western way", index is a bit more for that at the risk of potentially not– not focusing so much on, on the compatibility of some of the other

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aspects. And I think– I think those are the kind of conversations that we have. And I don't think that I don't think it'd be fair to say that one— I'm sorry, is going off a little bit— I don't think it's fair to say, and that one is necessarily better than

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the other. I just think they're two different schools of thought that come from different experience sets. And, you know, well, those are the kind of conversations we have.

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And I think it's less, at least from my perspective, less about, you know, "winning that debate," and more about each side, kind of sharing their perspective on the topic. Wow, that's super interesting.

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And thank you for sharing that. And I'm wondering, what do you look for in your search for your significant other? Oh, wow, that's a great question.

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Yeah, you know, I don't... Sorry, let me close the door, Ann. I'll be right back. In terms of that question, I think I'm definitely still trying to figure that out myself.

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You know, having been in and having dated, I think, I've certainly seen things that are important to me, whether it's a commitment to, you know, social justice, and service, which is really important to me, or whether it's

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family oriented, or whether it's, you know, kind of curious about other things in the world or faiths or whatnot. I think those are some of the things, but I would say, Ann, that I'm still certainly on

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the journey of trying to figure out, you know, what is– what is important for me; and I think, I think that's another, you know, when you talk about what are some of those conversations that I have with my parents.

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Like, I think that's another one because, you know, going back to that, "traditional Indian mindset" was: you finish high school, go to college, you get married. And that has sort of, kind of how it, how it was.

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And I think, for me, you know, both professionally, I've sort of not taken a traditional, excuse me path, in terms of going to law school and running for office and now starting and running an educational nonprofit. And

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so I think even personally, you know, I, I did, I never subscribed to the, "Okay, you finished college. It's time to, it's time to make sure you find something." For me, it's still trying to understand, you know,

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develop myself individually, you know, figure out what what it is that, I'm kind of thinking about both personally and professionally, and then kind of begin to begin to kind of think about the, who to, who, you

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know, to find. Yeah, thank you for sharing. And I guess, since... You have been friends with like Indian, and they're

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really... I'm also curious about whether the matchmaking culture or the matchmaking services or online websites, have you tried any of those? Or have your parents kind of tried to convince you to try any of

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those? Yeah. So again, I have not, but I think so again, I would, I would kind of break it and into a couple of buckets. So I think one bucket is the formalized matchmaker

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who— that's their career. And like we have seen on the Netflix show, "Indian Matchmaker", many of us have seen that, and they can now relate to that. So I think that's certainly one school of thought.

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I think a second school of thought is a little less formalized version of that, which is kind of this notion of people recommending someone to someone else. And I think that second school of thought I would

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not categorize that as a "Indian school of thought," that's kind of more universal in the sense of, you know... I don't like-like, I don't think somebody who is non-Indian would find it strange if their friends said, "Hey,

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you might want to go on a date with this mutual friend." That I don't think is considered strange. I think what is considered "strange", is A: the formal matchmaker, you go there, they read your horoscope, they

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figure out, you know, all your data, they show you the files like a resume. I think that that, to me, at least seems a little inorganic. But the second thing that's that is, is is bit awkward.

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Because this is unique, is when your parents say, "Hey, I'm, I know this other family, and they have a daughter, or they have a son; I think y’all should connect." While in principle, that's very similar to a

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friend saying, "Hey, you should meet this person." I think there is a different level when it is parent talking to parent, particularly if the two families know each other, because then it becomes a little more pressure in the situation.

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And so that is, I think, where— and I should point out, Ann, I don't know, hope I'm saying this, right. I know almost no one, maybe no one who has done that traditional Indian matchmaking TV, Netflix show

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type process. Like, I don't know, anybody who's done that, personally. I do know, people who have had sort of the quasi-arranged marriage

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where it's like, the families know each other, and you get introduced and you suddenly have veto power; but it's less than the traditional like, "Hey, I'm going to go on dates. I'm going to be on a dating app.

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Or I'm going to do you know, kind of more "Western way," I gonna find someone on my own.” Yeah, that's interesting. And also, since we were talking about pop culture in, like Netflix, there's another is really interesting, but it's more like teen story, the "Never had

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I ever" have you happen to watch that one? I've not seen it. I have heard of it. Maybe I should add it to the list. I have not seen it though, Ann.

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Yeah, totally. It's, it's super interesting in that struggle of like being Indian in a very kind of... Yeah. "Never have I ever". Alright, I'm gonna have to look this up.

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Yeah. So back to India matchmaking, do you think it's an authentic representation of value and culture of Indian dating? The show or the process?

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Both, I guess. So well. So let me start with the show. So I've seen that, you know, just because it was sort of this sensational thing that everybody was talking about.

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So I, of course, had to see it. You know, Ann, I don't know that many people who kind of have gone that route. And maybe it's because it's not as common here

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in the US, for South Asians to do that. But even my cousins... so I've had 1, 2, 3, 4... 4 cousins...

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5 cousin... 4 cousins have gotten married, on my dad's side, cousins in India. The first one, she met her now-husband, I think they went to like high school together or college, which is sort of dated, very

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traditional, "Western way" of doing it. The second person, she met kind of in the quasi-arranged marriage situation where the families knew each other. The third one,

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the third and fourth ones, they had both come here for college. So they kind of met someone through the workplace or, you know, here in the United States. And so I don't know, Ann, how relevant and culturally relevant that show is.

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What I can tell you is, are there people who consider, for example, the horoscope when they're matching—when they're considering who their child will match or marry?

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Absolutely. Are there people in India, in the United States, I should say, who work in the career of matchmaking? Absolutely. Are there situations where a family kind of interviews, the

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"potential son-in-law" or "potential daughter-in-law" and vice versa? Absolutely. But is it this sort of mechanical resumes come in, you show it to the person, like, I don't know how much that goes on.

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But I do think that the show accurately portrayed the way in which some in India consider finding a significant other. Yeah, thank you for sharing that.

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Totally. Yeah, and I guess, in your own personal journey to search for your significant other, what kind of Asian, like identity or more American identity, do you...

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Which side do you kind of identify with more? So for me, it's definitely kind of the Western, kind of the American way, for sure. You know, I'm, I would say that kind of the,

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the Indian part for me, first of all, is my faith, you know, I'm Hindu, go to temple, now, Zoom temple on Sunday. And so that's a big part of my life.

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But less from the sort of ritual or ceremony part, but more from the spiritual, be a good person, lessons part. So I think that, that is a part

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of my life, that, you know, I find some I would, either they are they, they match the religion with me, or they're very open and accepting and have kind of similar worldviews and kind of values. You know, obviously, Indian food and movies and music, and going to India to see my

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family, and I think that's, you know, become relatively mainstream. I think most people, you know, certainly who I interact with, you

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know, they've heard the word Bollywood or they know what, you know, Indian restaurant is or, you know, whatnot. And so I think that part of —aspects of-of my identity that are kind of rooted in the Indian-ness

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can for sure, overlap with someone who is non-Indian, because it's kind of a general aspects of it. And then, in terms of the process, I'm much less about the matchmaker, the arranged...

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I'm sort of taking more the, you know, traditional Western approach to that. Sure, thank you so much. And like going back to like rooting in the Asian—the

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Indian American dating culture, what do you think are some of the misunderstanding by the Americans of Indian dating? Wonderful question, Ann.

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I think one is that everybody's going to get an arranged marriage. I think that's not the case. I think that may have been at some point more common, but that's not anymore. I think a second misunderstanding is

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that, that just because just because someone's parents sort of did something a certain way does not mean that the next generation—and I've seen that in so many of

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my friends, where, you know, their parents did something one way and they're doing something go another, and even in some at some my cousin's I see that. I would say the third is, it is less than misunderstanding,

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but maybe just a sort of lack of understanding. I think a lot of South Asians are... because they haven't seen sort of

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the display of love and affection may perhaps in their own house, or it certainly was not a conversation topic. I think there might be a sense of, for some South Asians of uncertainty about how to best display, or–

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or how to engage in a thoughtful, you know, reflective conversation about, about love or intimacy. And I think that might just be a lack of understanding because, you know, you wouldn't expect someone to know that who is who is not from the culture.

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And so I think that's where it becomes incumbent upon just to open dialogue and communication to help both sides. And, and this is true if it's within culture or or outside to kind of understand where the other person is coming from.

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Yeah, and next, I guess um, would you by any chance in any circumstance would go into arranged marriage by your parents? And if you see, if you foresee your children, your future children go into

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that, by yourself? Yeah, so if the definition of arranged marriage is person A marries person B, families agree; and A and B have no choice— definitely not.

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You know, some other people be arranged marriages A and B, maybe have a choice, but they don't even get to spend too much time together. There's no way I could see myself doing that. You know, if, if, if, am I open to— am I open

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to...? Or, sorry, I should say sort of like point C if it's like a matchmaker, no way. So, so I don't see myself kind of going, going down that path. And I and I, I don't think I would, I would

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ask my kids to go down that path either. I think, you know, when I have kids, I think what I would hope is that we have a deep and open enough relationship, they feel comfortable having a conversation.

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And I don't think, I think people, you know— in Hinduism, we talk a lot about the importance of duty— and I think people have a duty to share their advice and opinion with people they care

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about. But at the end of the day, folks have to make their own decisions. And obviously, you're going to be there to support your loved ones and your family in whatever way you can.

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And if they fall down, or the decision doesn't work out, obviously, you'll be there to pick them up. But that doesn't mean you're going to push them or ensure that they make a certain type of decision.

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Because I think, you know, I, I do think that one of the shortcomings— if you will, or weaknesses— of the traditional Indian system is sometimes the kids are

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very tethered to the parents and don't develop their own sense of autonomy, or individuality. And I think that's stifling, I don't think that's necessarily effective. Obviously, there's a lot of positives, which is very

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close family connections, a lot of love and support, folks willing to make sacrifice for each other, et cetera, et cetera, et cetera. I could go on and on and on. So I'm not casting aspersions or anything.

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I'm just saying that I think that is one shortcoming. And so for someone like me, who has seen both the traditional Indian mindset, and the Western approach,

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it's about finding the best of both worlds. And I take that perspective in everything in my life, is how do I find the best of both worlds, to have the strength of being someone who, parents are one culture and is

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living in another culture. Because to me, that's a big strength, but only if you can draw on the best from both. Because it can become like a weakness if you're sort

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of paralyzed and unable to go to each side, because you're very unsure of where to go. And that's when it becomes a challenge. I think it is, for many of us, you know, in high school, or even in college, but I think

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as we get older, reflect more and are better able to take the best aspects of both sides, it becomes a huge, huge advantage, actually. Wow, that's super well-said.

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Thank you so much for sharing. I also wonder if you have talked to your same generation of Indian American, like second generations, and whether they share

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the same similar views for yourself? Yeah, great question, Ann. I, I have, both through my temple, and, you know, people I met at Rice

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when I was in college, or when I was a teacher or in law school. And I think that certainly like anything, the views are different based on each person. But if I had to put out some pull out some general themes, I

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would say that they're kind of two sets, maybe three sets. So the first is there are some people, Ann, who, maybe their parents were more conservative, or for

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whatever reason, they were attracted to the more traditional processes, who I think are very open to... and almost prefer, kind of the arranged marriage, where the joint family system living together with family in

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one house. And again, benefits and cons to that for sure. But that's, that's the smallest group, I would say, Ann. The next group, Ann, I would say is people who are very open to the kind of Western school of thought.

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So they're, of course, very knowledgeable and proud of their culture, of course, but they're also very open to the Western culture. And some of these folks have ended up with significant others

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outside their own culture. And then though at the end of the day, Ann, if I had to find the most common group, I think is ultimately people who are sort of taking a hybrid, which is they are finding someone on their own, not

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through the arranged marriage. But that person is Indian, and has a similar background. And, of course, there are exceptions, I mean, I have friends who came from India, who ended up with a non-Indian; I have friends here who are with a South Asian.

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So it just depends, I think, there, it sort of runs the gamut. But the majority of people take the approach of the Western approach to finding someone, and whether they end up with someone who's South Asian or not, sort of varies; but the vast majority of

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people have taken that approach and have sort of said, "The traditional approach, maybe it worked for my parents, maybe it didn't— but that's not for me." Great. Wow, thank you so much for sharing all of your perspectives today.

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And I'm so thrilled to hear about your different, yeah, as second generation as a juxtaposition to your parents. And this is super

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valuable. And I also want to see if you have anything else you would like to add and, or would like to do a time capsule for your next generations, or your future significant other? Yeah, in the future, for sure.

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Um, but no, I think this was great. And thank you for having me. And I just think it always comes down to, you know, those of

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us who are lucky enough to have multi cultures, multiple cultures impacting us: geographically, family background, etc. I think we have a real opportunity to find what's best in both and adopt that in our life.

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And if we don't, I think we're missing a great opportunity. Great, thank you. Thank you, Ann.