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So today is May 29, 2021. My name is Ann Shi. And this is— We are with the Houston Asian American Archive.

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And we're interviewing Rachel Gonzales in her studio at the Sawyer Yard studio space in Downtown Houston. Thank you so much, Rachel, for joining us today and taking out time in your Memorial weekend. Yay!

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Thank you for having me. And thank you for— thank you to Earth for not raining on us right now. It's been non-stop! It's a blessed day, yes.

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And to start, can you tell us when and where were you born? Okay, I was born in a small town in Massachusetts called Newburyport. There's a lot of water around there. And that was in

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1986. I'm a fire tiger. And it was May 12. My mom was walking around the lake by a castle when her water broke.

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So it's like— it's weird. I was like born in a watery area, even though it was in the States and my family's from Philippines. So my dad was from Pampanga.

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And they're known for really good food. Because every place prepares same dishes differently, but they're known for like really strong flavors. And then

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my mom was from Mindanao in Davao City, which is known for durian but like smelly fruit, and like beach life. So maybe that's where I get my like water connection and love for food.

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And I was also raised by a Greek godmother who took care of me when I was little. I called her Nina, ‘cause godmother in Tagalog means "ninang." And I can't make

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that sound, so I called her Nina. And she's still a huge part of my life. It took a lot of people to raise me ‘cause my parents were just like working trying to

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make things happen and— so yeah, that's like technically where I was born. But I have lived here in Houston, and like a suburb of Houston for most of my life. Can you describe the town that you grew up in?

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What was the demographic like? It's weird, though, like, I went to visit a few years ago and the house that my Greek godmother raised me in was for— on for sale.

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So I actually went back, pretending to buy it. And I was like, this is where I sharpened my pencil in the basement. And a lot of the things were the same.

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There aren't that many Asians at all. Like when I was born, I was the only baby with like dark hair and rosy red, darker skin. And it was just my mom was like,

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"That's mine!" Although her friends still live there, yeah, mostly still the same kind of old town like colonial town. But I did grew up—

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I did spend a lot of summers at the beach, in Salisbury Beach. And it was a very like kind of simple, carefree vibe. Not really glamorous at all, like just like cheap pizza and like arcade games and

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things like that. My parents moved from like the basement of a bakery to like an apartment here and there. They kind of moved around a lot until they finally settled

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in Houston to start a business together. Which I find— I think Houston is definitely more diverse, more-more flavors, more cultures here. But it's-it's crazy because like

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sometimes they'll be like, "Where are you from? Where were you born?" I'd say, "Massachusetts." "Oh, that's-Oh, that's why you're so like liberal..." and stuff like that. I don't know. But when I go there, it's like not really that

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diverse. I don't know what they mean by that. Maybe they're thinking of like a political party kind of thing. I don't know. Although like the Salem Witch Trials happened there, so there's this like element

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of repressed, femininity connection to nature and things. Like if you talk to animals, you were like abnormal, you're like drowned. And if you didn't drown, you were a witch and would be like

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punished anyways. There's those kind of like, eerie story around there. Like when they do Halloween, they really like get into it.

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And it's weird. Like when you think of Massachusetts, it's kind of a weird sounding state and I’m like, “This sounds like a Native American name that's been like, butchered by someone trying to pronounce it, like, not

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completely well.” No, but it— doesn't it sound like a weird name? It's a mouthful of syllables. So I think there's a part of me when I hear about, like, Native Americans

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being not heard or, a lot of— I don't know, there's this kind of connection about that is like— but when you think about it, it's all there learned anyway. But I don't know. When you think about, like, where you came from, and all this

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stuff, it always comes back to like the Earth, and like the collective and... I don't even know what I'm-what I'm saying any more. Um okay, so Massachusetts, I only spent like five years of my

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life there. My sister was still in the Philippines, so I actually grew up around a lot of adults. And I thought I was— in my world, I thought I was an only child.

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My Greek godmother ended up like love—love to take care of me. She took care of me when I was like two weeks old. And ended up adopting two boys, one was from El Salvador and other one was from— was half Korean half

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white. And I hung out with them a lot. And I knew what adopted meant. So I didn't understand the concept of having the same mom.

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Which is another story, because my father had children with two— more women, so like, I grew up with a half brother from another mother and a half sister from another mother. My mom like petitioned, for or— like have them stay with us.

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So when I met my actual sister from my mom, I asked her who her mom was and she pointed to mine, and I said, "No, that's my mom. What's happening?" But you don’t really think about it, because you go to school and everyone has their own mom.

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And the brothers that I played with, they were adopted. So I knew what adopted meant, like, “I want more than one child.” It was weird, but it kind of have— it kind of influenced why I'm more comfortable with being

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around different... types of people that have lived through different experiences. I think I kind of grew up in like a not conventional

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system— family. Or I guess, or it’s like my immediate sister, my immediate... It's really interesting. I haven't done any interviews, but it seems to me that a lot of

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like Asian American community is particularized on like notions of kinship, and that's very interesting, that you have different notions of kinship. Yeah. Was there any— a point that you realize that

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you're Asian, that you could be slightly different from the people around you? Like what was that earliest point that you were— That I felt different from other people?

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I always felt different. It wasn't because like, "Oh, I'm Asian, and you're not Asian." It was like, I never liked play— I would fake a nosebleed at recess.

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Like I just hated like , concept of like, forced play with this like weird games. I'm just not like a sports person.

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I don't know why I have anxiety around that. And I just wanted to read and like write and read. I do like get lost in my own world. I also...

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wore boys' clothing at the time. Because I think my mom subconsciously wanted a boy, but didn't really— and I— when I look at these photos of like me in like a sailor outfit, like a boy, like blue, like— I know

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the concept of like clothes, gendered clothing is stupid, but like it was intentional. Like she said, "The girl's clothing looks so uncomfortable." So she was like, I— and then my great godmother, Greek godmother was like,

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"Why did you wear a lot of brown? It was a lot of brown and black." So like, I even had my own different sense of style when I was little. And

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it's weird. When you're younger, you don't really have this concept of like the other yet. You're just kind of like in your world doing you. And I think that's always been a part of me.

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But I don't know if the question’s more like trying to get if I ever felt like discriminated or something like that. I would say… I don't think I was like really made fun of, but I did have this sense of

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like not really belonging, but being okay with that in a weird way, because I kind of knew that— I don't know, maybe I was just comfortable in my own skin and like how I am.

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But yeah, there is this human sense of like wanting to connect with people and be like them. Or even, even if we think about Filipino values in terms of what is considered cool or attractive, I would notice that they would say, "Oh,

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your ____ like your skin's so fair!" You're like— that's a sign of beauty. So I don't like being compared in that way. Like there's nothing wrong. There's beauty in skin that's the same color as the Earth.

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There's beauty in different kinds of things. Like I didn't notice that. And then sometimes because knowing that my name is Gonzales, which is from Spanish

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colonization. They'll be like, "Oh, were you— are you Mexican?" Or, "Were you divorced, but you kept your ex-husband's last name" kind of a thing. But I don't think that's like— I'm not

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offended when people say those things. But it's something that like comes up a lot, I guess. If you think about Filipino culture though, it is now like a real mix of a lot of things. I probably have some Chinese blood, some

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Spanish blood. I-I actually don't look like most Filipinos. Even when I went there, they're like, "Are you from Korea or China, or what?" Or if I go shopping, depending on which Asian grocery store I go, they'll either be like,

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"Xiexie" or "Kam-sa-ham-ni-da" . I just like, throw it back at them, like that's cool. I don't really get offended. But maybe that gives me the ability to kind of shape shift or blend in like

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different cultures, I guess? Like ____? Yeah, I think. I did go to a school though, where it was super competitive.

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But I didn't like play into that game. But there were a lot of Asians at my school, so I didn't experience being around people that didn't look like me, I guess. But I noticed when I traveled to like

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Denver, Colorado, or some places that seem… to project this image of la-dee-da liberalism, but I'm like, "Where are the Black people? Where are the Asian people? What planet am I on?" I find that's weird.

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Isn’t it weird? Northwest, Northwest liberalism— no offense— it's very interesting, because it's very liberal, like everyone thinks it's so liberal, but there's no people of color.

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There's no people of color. There's a reason why they're— they think that way. It's weird. If I ever were— was oppressed, I don't know if I...

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I can't really think about a specific instance where I'm like, "No, F you." But yeah, there is something that comes with being Filipina and having like a Spanish last name, and... But because I just already grew up with so many different people in my life,

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that-that was like normal to me. Being different is cool. Like, we're not— we're all different. We all have different gifts. That's how I kind

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of see humanity. I'm actually really interested in like, modes of kinship. Because like, Yeah, I don't know, it's very, it’s like a very— whenever you think about like Asian culture, it's always like,

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"Oh, family this, family that." Like biological— a lot of emphasis on biological family. I don't know how much I'm allowed to interject anyway, but yeah. And there's a sense of honor.

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Right? This other layer of like, honor for our family, honor for our... Yeah. Whereas in more Western culture, it's like, do your own thing when you're 18. Forget your family, put them in a nursing home. And I'm like, “How can you do that?

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No.” Yeah, like even after my father died, but like I-I had dreams of like, “Oh, let me go to Copenhagen and live my like adventurous life.” I'm like, “There's no way like I can leave my mom like that.” Like I just felt like it wasn't

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out of obligation, it's just like in me, like family is important. And my relationship with my mom actually evolved over time because I actually had

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like kind of abandonment issues when she wasn't around working. But that's just because she was doing the best that she could. But as a child, you don't realize those things. You're like, “Oh—” maybe like, "Why is she not

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around?" Like, "What did I do wrong?" Or, "What can I do better?" Kinship, I would say, having nurturing people around you… having people that can hold space for you, and whatever you're going through

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is important, I think. Filipinos, I will say, have this kind of— is it camaraderie? We have a word that's called "kakwa" .

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Kind of like seeing yourself in the other community. It's very like rooted in kinship. And I noticed that if I am

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going to the art museum and people around— they look Filipino, "Are you—" like, "Are you Filipino?" I'm like, "Yeah." And I’m like, "Okay, dee-dah." Like, we always— it's like once you

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know you're Filipino, it's like, we use language that's like, “You're my auntie now,” “You're my uncle now.” It's just kind of like— that is a kind of a kinship. Or even if it's like something dumb, like an artist

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that is singing to win a competition and they're Filipino, like all Filipinos will like rally up and like vote for this person to like win that contest. Or like, you know, with Manny Pacquiao too, there's a lot of— like I'm not into boxing, but like he is

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awesome. There's this kind of like— we see ourselves like family, even if we're not related. Whereas I think in some cultures, they're a bit more competitive in some way, like— or they want to show that they're better than this person.

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But I think as a collective, there's this kind of sense of already like we're family now. I don't know where that comes from though, like... I actually— when I became part of Filipinix Artists of Houston, I didn't realize that this-this kind of

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community was kind of missing from my-my life in a way. Because we already have language to express things that we can't with other people? I don't know why. There's like less translation involved with that.

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And I think that's kind of a cool thing to combine with. We're all creative and finding ways to express ourselves as well. So yeah, I mean, I

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find community in people that are Filipino, not Filipino and my blood. I don't know if that's like an ENFP thing. Yeah, I think having supportive, nurturing people in your life is important no matter what.

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Because also, anything I've ever done in life hasn't been without the support or encouragement of someone else in my life, I guess? So yeah, we're all connected.

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Can you talk a little bit about the food that you had like in your own family and with your Greek godparents? So I used to be really picky with eating, because I was with my Greek godmother a lot.

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So they couldn't have made me eat like the-the more traditional dishes. I would only eat— they say ____ and rice, which is just soy sauce and rice with like a tiny bit of butter.

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Like, I like lived off of that. But then at my grandmother's house, I would eat like pasta, Greek, the spinach Spanakopita thing,

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which is so good. I even had Thanksgiving with them maybe 10 or so years ago, and they stuffed the turkey with the grape leave spices. And I would eat like

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oatmeal and play this game of like Tic Tac Toe, where you like squeezed the strawberry flavor. I was really obsessed with like Tic Tac Toe and then that evolved into this like weird obsession with chess, and like move—

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something about like spatially trying to arrange things. That's kind of an artistic thing to do, no? Yeah. And I also majored in architecture, which is kind of like related to this kind of grid thing, and what can

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I do within the grid. But I really love ____, my dad would make that with coffee. It's when you really toast the bread so it's crunchy, almost burnt with lots of butter and sugar, and you just dip it in coffee.

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And I think he acclimated my tastebuds to coffee at maybe too young of an age? That’s something I'm trying to like wean off, 'cause it's like too much caffeine and I'm like, "4 a. m., what's happening?" But now I'm like

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obsessed with kare-kare, which is a peanut butter stew. And I love…. wha t is it? My mom's–my mom's chicken

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curry, super yummy. I'm really spoiled by my mom. She like makes a lot of good food. And I also like eating fish

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with my hands and dipping it in— they call it "Suka't dinikdik na bawang," it's garlic with— in vinegar. And sometimes we do it like really big with the boodle— we call it a boodle fight. Like in the military style

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eating, it's like all banana leaves, and all your meat is in the middle, it's mostly seafoods and stuff, and then your rice is in— on your banana leaf. And you just like go at it.

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There's this kind of like shameless indulgence with food and I feel like food is the way that we bond. And if you want to disrespect a family: don't eat their food. If you

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care, eat the food even if it's... So yeah, and then my grand-my grandma would make really good kare-kare also. I actually learned so much from

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her, because she also helped raise me for a little bit, and her name is ___, which is like... We would make these— it’s like kare-kare and ____, it was like her signature dish. So that peanut butter stew is like I think my favorite.

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And you add like a shrimp paste to it to kind of— There's this kind of like, “Okay, this is the meal, but you have this and dip it with this,” it’s like takes it to the next level, right? Like whether it's a garlic vinegar or a shrimp

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paste thing to add on. And I think it has to do with being in such like a tropical climate, that vinegar and these kind of things help keep the food lasting longer.

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And I think being accustomed to that palette, I really love strong flavors. So like even like Sichuan cooking, I'm like, "I want the one with more peppers." Like, "More!" So I think I've developed like a palette for that.

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But I haven't had Balut, which is like a chick that hasn't really developed yet in the egg. That's like my line, 'cause I think I'm too like empathetic that I'm like, “Ugh, like this is—”

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Like my mind can't like go there to eat it or try it. But my mom loved eating that when she was like with my dad, and he was like courting her, they would eat Balut watching the sunset and stuff.

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It's like a delicacy there. I still love going to H-Mart and just getting my snacks like— I feel like Asian snacks is like, you know. I want my dried squid, my dry— you know?

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It's like— it's almost like the stinkier the better. So flavors, yes, are good. Yeah, because my Greek godmother had— was half Italian, I am all about like making the pasta really al-dente.

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Like I'll throw it on the wall and wait for it to stick before it's made right, because if you overdo it, it's too soggy and... I think food is another art, right? It's like, it can be very healing too.

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Like what you eat, food is your medicine. — Baking is a science. Macrons never. I cannot do it, I just pay for them.

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Like it has to be good humidity and all this stuff. It's really hard. What is it? Food is a what? Food is an art, and baking is a science.

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Baking is a science. Yes, measuring and all those things, which is kind of what I'm doing with oil painting, 'cause it's like— yeah, it's a lot of like knowing the medium I'm playing with. It's a more technical way of process,

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I think. They also say like if you crave sweet things, it's–it's kind of like this motherly connection that you're craving, or like mommy issues. And if you like salty things, you're craving for that like protective

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father energy. I've heard that from some like healers. And I will say I-I have a big sweet tooth. And maybe that's because my

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mom was working a lot when I was little. So yeah, right now we're going through like a big ube crave, like ube cake, ube jam, and ube coffee drinks. I'm noticing a lot of that.

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Even in like non-Filipino stores or ube macarons... I've only ever really seen like the ube trend in New York and LA though. I feel like elsewhere, it's kind of

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harder to find though. I think it's happening now, because maybe I'm part of this Filipina group and they're always having a pop-up and it's like ube everything. Ube jam.

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Ube cookie. I think part of it is aesthetic, no? Like it's purple, it's very concentrated. It is pretty. It is. Yeah. That's a thing.

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And pandan is like a green, a very vibrant green color that's also kind of like earthier tea taste. The pandan leaf. I definitely love coconut.

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I was just— I came from the desert and my friend and I were like, "Why is coconut water magic?" It was really is more satisfying than regular water. It's like “Because we're Island girls, like, this is where we came from.” But

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yeah, it has like more electrolytes. It's almost like creamier and not too sweet. It's funny, I noticed, like in a lot of Asian tasty things, like, if you're eating a dessert like, "Oh, it's so great.

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Not too sweet." That's a thing. Or too sweet, it's bad. Yeah. Can you also talk about how like— as you were talking about,

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it's a human common bond— and like the constellation— which I personally know that you're very well researched and fascinated about— can you talk about how that kind of informs you as a person and your artistic practices?

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Is the— what's the word “constellation?” Yeah, constellation like the stars, the signs, and the stars... — Astrology. Oh, constellations. I was like, consolation, like grieving and healing through it?

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Or constellations? The celestial bodies? Yes. And then... Oh, okay, yeah.

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So we're on planet Earth. So weird that I have to like remind myself this. Let's see, you want to know like how it started in my life? And my connection with

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that-with that. Okay, so, I don't know if you saw this Disney— is it Disney? "An American Tail." It's about this mouse. And he's portrayed as like this

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Jewish mouse escaping and he's like a refugee coming to America. And his name— Fievel Mousekewitz. I watched this thing, and then the like theme song in that movie is called "Somewhere Out There," and one of the

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lyrics is— there's something about being under the same moon in the same sky. So like even though he's being separated by his mouse family, there's still that bond.

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So I don't know why I had— maybe I had separation anxiety when my Filipino family moved here to Houston, and I had to say bye to my Greek-Italian godmother. And I would tell myself, like— I would look at the Moon and be like, “Well,

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we're still able to like see this same moon at the same moment, even though we're like miles apart.” And I found that that was very comforting to me. And so I think that moon and the stars have always been this kind of

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constant in times of uncertainty, because that's just life, right? Things are changing, but the moon is there. And then in terms of spirituality, I never really connected with...

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So, with Spanish influence on Filipino culture, it's very rooted in Roman Catholicism. And I actually didn't really think about Jesus or what he did, because it was all about Mother Mary.

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And we even had a grotto in my mom's backyard of Mary, and like we have like roses to her, and like water flowing around her. And I kind of thought of Mary as this like motherly— like a Mother

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Moon almost. And I think my spirituality actually deepened with my connection with the moon? Because if you think about the concept of God and not being able to see what God

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is, you cannot see the moon at some times, but you know that the moon is always there. And even in the darkest time, it's like the moon is still there, like the

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presence of the moon is still there. And even when it's full, the moon shines light in times of dark at night. And it's this concept of like, if you think about the moon, it's the sun's light shining on this like solid piece of rock

00:31:22.000 - 00:31:35.220

reflecting back to us on Earth. So I kind of found Mother Mary to be this kind of conduit messenger? Like we prayed to Mary Mary, Mary asks God or Jesus or whoever,

00:31:35.630 - 00:31:45.720

and someone listens. It was this always kind of conduit of getting a message out there and there. So I find like the indirect light of the Moon was fascinating to

00:31:45.720 - 00:31:58.410

me, as opposed to this like oppressive Sun that just like, won't— it's even hard to look at the sun, you know, it's not recommended. I know, we have a solar eclipse coming up on a new moon.

00:32:00.280 - 00:32:16.510

But yeah, the moon has always been this kind of constant, unconditionally, always-there motherly presence in my life. And knowing that it does control the tides and

00:32:16.660 - 00:32:33.780

like the moods in my body and the water, this water-moon connection. I also— I don't know why, but like when it comes to social justice— you know, I don't really identify with one party or another, but I see things from the sense of

00:32:35.200 - 00:32:48.580

a collective humanity on this planet. And when resources are— when resources-resources, or people are getting exploited, like I don't know why I feel it at like a

00:32:48.650 - 00:33:02.740

very visceral level. So there was this like protest against this pipeline running through a reservoir. And I went to Energy Transfer Partners downtown, not really to

00:33:02.880 - 00:33:15.670

protest like rah, rah, but like I put candles around this like one corner and I had like— I was like— and someone interviewed me. And I was like, "I'm actually not protesting. I'm holding space for Mother Earth because she's not being heard.

00:33:16.330 - 00:33:31.850

And this company is like building this thing illegally without permit." It was just like, I got into this like, weird thing. And I think— Oh, yeah, I met- I met a woman that connected with me.

00:33:31.870 - 00:33:46.220

And she turned to— she turned out to be like a feng shui organizer, I guess? And then she read-she read my like—my name, my date, my birth and said that I'm a life path five, which

00:33:46.270 - 00:34:00.600

means I like— I'm very dynamic, I embrace change and alchemy. Alchemy means like taking esoteric knowledge and translating it back to Earth. I was like, "No wonder why I'm like so drawn to like the elements.” Like wuxing

00:34:00.600 - 00:34:14.160

elements of the Chinese like cycle of: metal to water, earth to log to fire. And like I-I feel it viscerally like, okay, if you think about water, that's the-that's the— we're made up of water,

00:34:14.190 - 00:34:26.070

right? And then water nourishes metal— that's like the iron in our blood. And then metal-metal turns into— metal nourishes water.

00:34:26.340 - 00:34:38.570

I mean, it's just a whole cycle. Like wood and air, it's communication, so I think of it as lungs. And then that fuels fire, which is your heart, your desire, which turns to ash and back to earth, which is

00:34:38.810 - 00:34:49.460

the body as a container. Like earth being this element that holds all the other elements. So I think in terms of like the zodiac, it's really just cycles of these

00:34:49.570 - 00:35:00.250

elements in seasons. We have summer, fall, spring, winter and some of these things are more mutable or fixed, and more cardinal, as in starting the season.

00:35:01.000 - 00:35:13.450

So we just kind of like expanded into like more knowledge. It's not like, I'm— I read all these books about the elements. It's like someone comes into my life, and then I make a connection with that, and then it informs my understanding of

00:35:15.140 - 00:35:33.410

seasons, elements, the body, how we–how we transition from one phase to another. So like right now we're in May, where— we're in May, which is all about spring and fixed growth like roses.

00:35:36.070 - 00:35:45.210

You don't have to try to grow things. Like it'll just— you know, we're getting tons of rain, heaps of rain. And that's like a fixed earth sign.

00:35:45.240 - 00:35:56.350

That's what we're in. We're moving into Gemini season, so that's going into summer. It's a mutable air sign. And it's just like— I'm not gonna lie.

00:35:56.520 - 00:36:05.620

I'm fascinated with this. But when I met that protester I got really deep into numerology, and... but yeah, it only— it started with the moon.

00:36:05.640 - 00:36:15.020

That's where it started. And apparently, when my mom's water broke, it was a new moon in Cancer, on the fifth day after a new moon. So like, I have very strong

00:36:15.210 - 00:36:27.900

five energy born in the fifth month, and my mom named my— me name— my middle name is May. And it's also— that's where the moon is at home in Cancer. So it's a very intuitive placement.

00:36:28.960 - 00:36:42.640

And it's weird, like I will just say certain things to people, like I get a download of something. And they’re— they-they wonder about it and they look it up and like, “Oh, you're right.” And I'm like, “I'm not even trying to though.

00:36:42.660 - 00:36:54.700

I'm not like trying to send a thought being out.” It’s weird. I don't know. I don't know. I've been really thinking about like cyclical time and the seasons. Because there's some activists who talk about cyclical time as sort of a way to, sort

00:36:54.740 - 00:37:04.090

of, resist colonization— the linearization of time and narratives. We have to decolonize the calendar. Think about Julius— Julius and Augustus.

00:37:04.140 - 00:37:12.570

That's why the months are off. Why is December the 12th? His death is the 10th. Yeah. And they named it.

00:37:12.570 - 00:37:24.000

And we have 13 moons. In Tagalog, one moon means month. So if we decolonize the calendar to be lunar, it would make more sense. It's

00:37:24.030 - 00:37:34.630

just a lot of unlearning. And I think it— that's why it does make sense to me. It's like, this is why I go through periods where I feel like I need to rest, like we're in a waning moon period.

00:37:35.200 - 00:37:42.820

Let's not try to like force ourselves. Do you think it relates to that piece maybe? I mean like, because the Gregorian calendar is very sun-based and very like masculine?

00:37:43.320 - 00:37:53.290

Comparing to the moon. It reminds me of that piece. And it's gracious. ‘Cause it's like phases, that's a full moon, and then we’re waning. Yeah. And I think the Asian concept of

00:37:53.510 - 00:38:07.190

time is different than Western concept of time. Maybe think about seasons and cycles. Even the Zodiac in-in Chinese element, it's by year and element of yin and yang,

00:38:08.080 - 00:38:25.410

whereas Western astrology is based on physical space in relationship to Earth, and where these planets are. So it's like— it's more rooted in like physical realm? Where I think Asian sense of cyclical time is more spiritual and

00:38:25.430 - 00:38:39.080

rooted in six cycles. You notice that like a lot of more elderly Asian with more wisdom, they are-they are like, they see time as a cycle and not about being rushed to do

00:38:39.160 - 00:38:49.850

anything. They take their time, and they know and they trust that this is just human nature, I guess. While I feel like the Western time it's like, "Oh, you're late! You’re like three minutes late."

00:38:49.850 - 00:39:02.740

I think it's also a byproduct of neoliberal capitalism. But we're not gonna go there. Isn't it? It's capitalistic, because it's like the concept of time is really— it's just movement of

00:39:02.770 - 00:39:10.370

planets around the system. It's gonna keep moving. Like sun isn't really setting. It's Earth turning away from that

00:39:10.450 - 00:39:24.980

body. But it's like, we have to deconstruct language, like, it's not really sunset. You know, if you really think about it. Like fetishizing a linear narrative, but this is just Christine hot takes, which is not— this is just hot takes for

00:39:25.020 - 00:39:38.290

me. So. Is it? Yeah. And, you know, people will ask me, “What's next? What are you doing? Blah blah blah after this?” And if I'm going through a period where I need rest, it's like I'm doing

00:39:38.330 - 00:39:49.200

absolutely nothing intentionally, because that's part of the process. We can't be constantly on full moon mode. And I think periods of rest are necessary.

00:39:49.200 - 00:40:04.670

And even if you're, you know, fighting capitalism, you need to find time to fill your own cup and, you know, decolonize this idea that you have to like over-function all the time. And that's not how the

00:40:04.740 - 00:40:19.170

seasons are, you know. Avocados aren’t always in season and why are they there all the time? I don't know. Like, even if you think about our beta and like what is bountiful, Earth provides and the things that we need to eat at

00:40:19.170 - 00:40:29.960

that time. It's not like— you don't have to over-intellectualize it, you know. Some people think I'm crazy, but it's like, no, like, just look at the moon. It's not bright right now.

00:40:31.820 - 00:40:50.130

It's a reflection of like just how things happen. And you can even take it into lifetimes, like my existence here. I'm here in this physical realm right now. But I don't know why I kind of have some kind of notion that I

00:40:50.170 - 00:40:56.060

existed maybe in the past. Like maybe that's why these things come more naturally to me. Maybe I mastered this before I was even born.

00:40:56.790 - 00:41:14.220

I don't know. I guess, yes, cyclical time, I'm about that. And like, that's what this is about “Moon Lists.” It doesn't even talk about, like, what month I'm in or what it— just week 1-2-3-4, and then I can just

00:41:14.800 - 00:41:22.620

take note of what I'm processing. There's no sense of like, "Oh, no, it's May. And I should have been here right now." Yeah,

00:41:26.100 - 00:41:43.350

there's this kind of constant balance between structure and freedom within that. So if we take that to like needing to make money and meet your needs, like I do have a day job, but it doesn't like take over my entire

00:41:43.480 - 00:41:55.500

life. Like I have to be boundaried with that, and I'm actually very detached from that work. I don't really care what it looks like, but I want to do a good job for the amount of time that I'm dedicating it.

00:41:56.160 - 00:42:10.940

And that gives me the freedom to express what needs to be expressed here. ‘Cause if I turn this into a way to make a living, it kind of takes away from this

00:42:13.930 - 00:42:27.620

sense of what I want to process. Yeah, I'm doing like a book cover and an album cover, but they're still rooted in what— they connect with what I'm going through right now. So it's like, I don't know, I just can't do pet portraits like all day or

00:42:27.620 - 00:42:43.770

something. But that doesn't mean that's bad for another artist, I think each artists have to find their way, and a structure that works for them, that aligns with their own values.

00:42:43.880 - 00:42:55.610

That makes sense. Art is very fluid. This entire background is just all like, very fluid. It has a lot of drip and a lot of... I don't know.

00:42:55.670 - 00:43:08.530

Yes, I've heard that like people are like, "It doesn't look like you're an architect." Because some architects actually make art and you can tell it has like a heavy structural hand. Like-like maybe they taped a line and like

00:43:08.900 - 00:43:25.730

wanted it perfectly right angle. I think this is my way of like— I'm not really rebelling against it, but it's like— it just— I have more freedom, whereas the architecture— I'm still— it's still a question.

00:43:26.190 - 00:43:46.700

Like, this is something— I think right now it's good for me, it's working for me right now. Can you talk about the mothers in your life and how they connect to your artistic practices in the womb, as you have brought it up from time to time?

00:43:46.700 - 00:44:02.110

That womb space— I call it the womb space. Yeah, so the womb space is what I would call the new moon when it's void, it's dark.

00:44:03.080 - 00:44:17.990

Because if you think about it, we were all born out of darkness in our mother's wombs. So I find that as an artist, I like referring to the womb space as this kind of protective dark

00:44:19.290 - 00:44:32.210

shell where I feel safe, and I can scream, cry, shout, whatever. And they can hold space for that. If you think of the galaxy, we have the black emptiness

00:44:32.970 - 00:44:49.170

for Earth to contain us. And then as a mother, even though I'm not technically a mother, I don't have children right now, but I do have this creative power to birth things into

00:44:49.350 - 00:45:05.440

life. Not only through visual art, but through words like when I'm saying, what kind of energy I'm creating. And I think as artists, we are generative beings. We're— you know, there's this idea of like being a consumer, and just

00:45:05.480 - 00:45:19.030

taking and taking. I think artists are naturally generative, like, it's in our nature to create something that never existed there. It's not entirely like original, but it's still unique expressions.

00:45:19.230 - 00:45:39.450

So I really value that, that connection with the womb space. And now this is not to devalue masculine energy because they don't have a womb, per se.

00:45:40.780 - 00:45:52.110

I think it also elevates these qualities in men. I think men can be— need to be able to express softness, tenderness, unconditional

00:45:54.120 - 00:46:09.060

love, and without this pressure of like being the strong one, or something like that. And I think that translates into— I don't know, I'm just—

00:46:09.350 - 00:46:26.360

I'm not saying that because I love the womb, and the woman, and then all these things, that I don't value... I don't know, masculine energies, those are very— it's just that masculine

00:46:26.380 - 00:46:32.880

energies are so obvious. They're right there in your face. Like we live in a physical realm. Beauty is important.

00:46:33.780 - 00:46:42.980

Objects are important. But I think that the womb space, I kind of— when I go into there, I'm like, "What does it feel like? What memory does it evoke?" It's something that I can't see.

00:46:43.800 - 00:46:59.300

But I can feel it. And it's-it's like the realm of metaphor. It's the realm of poetry, of language that transcends actual literal language. When I say blue, it means five different things. And when I say moon, it means mother womb space, cycles, elements.

00:47:00.260 - 00:47:13.960

But the male gaze is like, “It's a moon, it's a solid mass.” There's nothing wrong with that. So I also think of paintings as containers to hold-to hold what I need to put on the page, or even a book.

00:47:14.660 - 00:47:28.860

And that's the structure. I think that is the male energy is— the masculine energy is that structure. What is that to contain? I don't know. But arguably, back in the day, when they talked about

00:47:28.930 - 00:47:43.590

like reproductive organs, humans were all the same. It just happened that in the male bodies, it was external. And in the female bodies, it was inverted and internal. But there's— it's still the same shape of like

00:47:45.490 - 00:47:56.280

this going on with this. Right? It's just inverted. So this whole concept of like, gender and all that. I think that's, that's a part of colonization and concept of

00:47:57.180 - 00:48:11.090

like limiting these things. Because honestly like, as we're— womb is like— isn't that weird that we bleed and we don't die? That would creep someone out. So I also think like language was created to kind of— I

00:48:13.820 - 00:48:24.030

don't know— not define us, but like, there's this element of like, shame, and misogyny. We have to like, undo and unlearn these things. But like, I think that

00:48:26.150 - 00:48:38.540

whether your body-whether your body, whether you have like internal or external organs, like it doesn't make you more or less, it's just a different mode of like being in this physical realm.

00:48:38.650 - 00:48:51.470

You still have both masculine and feminine and divine energies. And even in older cultures and in Native American cultures, even a Filipino— like the word for person, or that is "they," but it's

00:48:51.470 - 00:49:04.980

still singular, there's no gender attached to that. And in Native cultures, we had— there were gods and goddesses that were— that looked male on the outside, but had more feminine energies, and they were valued as having access to the divine.

00:49:05.000 - 00:49:23.690

So like, I think with using language to genderize things like clothing, it's a way of constricting this way of thinking. I don't know why, it's just this weird construct of like, "Where does that come from?" Like, "Why

00:49:23.690 - 00:49:42.140

can't..." Maybe this is also why I like BTS, because like in their latest video, he's wearing a skirt and it's cute. They wear makeup proudly, not all the time, but like I find that them just being themselves is also deconstructing

00:49:42.590 - 00:49:58.670

what this concept of masculinity is. And they're very like tender and sweet with each other. They cry on stage. Super emotionally vulnerable and open. I think Western masculinity is threatened by K-pop.

00:49:59.800 - 00:50:16.270

Western masculinity really.... I’m only just now processing this like— maybe that’s why I’m so into them. Well, just what they want to wear, doesn’t make them gay or womenly.

00:50:16.290 - 00:50:32.140

And if he is, who cares, let him be gay. Like— when we like to say “Oh, that’s gay.” And there’s nothing wrong with being gay, but it’s being used in a way that’s insulting. And even for me to say that like

00:50:32.580 - 00:50:50.180

I wore boy’s clothes, what does that even mean? It’s just that I’m not wearing dresses , and the pants are baggy or— but it’s bought in the boy’s section. I read that kids can learn and pick up gender cues as early as two or three.

00:50:51.170 - 00:50:59.600

And like— ‘cause a lot of queer people would like, “Oh I chose this, even though I didn't quite understand the significance what it was till later.” I don’t know, it’s interesting.

00:51:01.910 - 00:51:18.850

Yeah. I think that-that people want to over intellectual– intellectualize about like, “There are only two,” and, you know, like... But like think about it.

00:51:19.110 - 00:51:31.950

We both came from like— we both came from a man and a woman. I hope I’m not like offending anyone to say these things but— Why do you think they would be offended?

00:51:32.210 - 00:51:44.620

Well, I don’t know. There are some people are like, “You can only be a man or a woman.” Why do you think about God, like God doesn't have a gender? We are from God. Don't you think we have this kind of thing that

00:51:44.910 - 00:51:59.850

cannot be named? You know, sometimes language pisses me off. Like, even when I read an article, I can tell that this is the narrative that this person wanted to create for the left or the right, or the whoever, and it's not true.

00:51:59.900 - 00:52:15.270

I don't know why I can immediately like see through that. And it's hard to explain, but like— We're never neutral. Yeah, we are never neutral.

00:52:15.940 - 00:52:30.000

We can't just be. Yeah. Why can't it just be? Like, why can't men wear dresses and be men— and be proud manly men in their dresses?

00:52:30.730 - 00:52:50.460

The whole concept of that, like... it's weird to me. It's very strange. And uh, I guess to bring us back from the constellation to the Earth a little bit. And then...

00:52:50.610 - 00:53:11.390

Dimensions. Yeah, so in this dimension, can we talk a little bit about how like Massachusetts and from your earlier generation your parents were in the Philippines and then coming to Houston, and

00:53:12.830 - 00:53:29.860

how like it connects to Rice, and how you arrived at Rice, like that trajectory? The kind of your footprints starting from— it's like a narrative for the audience to learn about how you arrived in Houston.

00:53:30.710 - 00:53:43.180

Oh yeah. Let's see. I think my father was trying to start businesses in different states. My mom even gave birth to me without him by her side.

00:53:44.600 - 00:53:59.300

He was like trying to do something. He was working odd jobs at restaurants, tried real— being a realtor. Also, we had a business in New Jersey,

00:53:59.610 - 00:54:18.140

like buying business where you take goods from America and ship them back to the Philippines. That was like a common thing that we would do. And we ended up in Houston because his ex-wife—

00:54:19.390 - 00:54:38.210

so like my kind of a stepmom— no not— they weren't together at the time— was living in Houston with one of my half sisters. They were— it's just a family that’s like all over the

00:54:38.230 - 00:54:55.560

place. And I think the way I see it is like we're all trying to make it and whether this relationship is romantically good or not, but like there's this sense of, like, "If that's not working, why don't you come here and we'll try this and then we'll try that." I call that like kind of a

00:54:55.560 - 00:55:12.240

spaghetti method, like seeing what sticks. Though my mom was a nurse, trained as a nurse, and it was at the time when the government was in short of— having a shortage of nurses. And even when I think about it at the time, it's like,

00:55:14.150 - 00:55:28.870

if you-if you really zoomed out of the whole influence of America on the Philippines, it's almost like they created a place to have a military base, right? To have, you

00:55:28.870 - 00:55:45.500

know, power and all that with the location, but also infiltrating like— even Western school system and the concept of learning English. So a lot of Filipinos know English during Martial

00:55:48.040 - 00:56:04.800

Law, was it? Or... I'm not like a real like great historian, but there's a reason why Filipinos know English. And I almost think the— these American values in certain things were almost like

00:56:05.000 - 00:56:17.950

grooming these people to— in some way or another— to kind of be exploited. I don't know if that's like too harsh of a statement. But like it created this wave of people

00:56:18.010 - 00:56:32.780

having to give up the dream of what they wanted to do, and become a nurse to make more income in the States. So not only are they kind of like exploiting the land, but also the people in a way.

00:56:32.850 - 00:56:47.900

And that there's a reason why laws change over time, depending on the needs of the American government. Like I don't know if they saw a need for nurses or something like that, or what-what-what is the meaning behind all that

00:56:48.110 - 00:57:05.520

things. But my mom's job was very stable. It was my father that kind of had us moving, because he really wanted to provide and do more for the family in that sense. But while he was doing that, he was taking me to school, going

00:57:05.520 - 00:57:17.210

to my parent-teacher meeting. So like he was kind of like a more maternal figure in my life. So when I talk about the divine feminine, like I'm thinking of my dad, too, who identifies

00:57:18.840 - 00:57:32.080

as a male, ‘cause he's so tender and, you know, saved these scraps of paper, like, “You might be like, ___” ... You know, how— he like really overvalue me and it creates some kind of sense.

00:57:32.450 - 00:57:42.950

I think I'm really lucky for that though, too. Because I know a lot of artists struggle with self worth and, you know, their parents not being supportive of what they're making, and

00:57:43.510 - 00:57:55.760

Yeah, what's the meaning of this? Yeah, I think I remember him. I think of him fondly as this kind of like cheerleader. So yeah, we started a business

00:57:55.760 - 00:58:11.510

in Houston, because my dad was like, "This is not working out in Massachusetts. Let's go here." And let's petition my full sister who was left in the Philippines, and then they met her in Houston. So they settled in Sugar Land.

00:58:12.850 - 00:58:25.700

I think we’re somewhere in North Houston, through a mutual friend. My parents-my parents started a business, physical therapy. It's right off Highway 59 somewhere.

00:58:28.580 - 00:58:41.820

So my dad was kind of— the way to make it in business is find a partner and know what they're good at doing, and then market that. So like with my mom, she's a nurse.

00:58:41.880 - 00:58:57.290

So eventually, let's do a physical therapy clinic and that started blossoming. And Houston started to get saturated with that kind of work. So he had a doctor connection in Memphis and started opening up

00:58:57.320 - 00:59:18.020

clinics there. And as I was going to school at Dallas and Clements, I applied to Rice University because I actually grew up listening to KTRU and it's like a weird radio station, student-run,

00:59:18.140 - 00:59:30.730

and I was just like, these people are like big— they crack me up, like I want to be a DJ there secretly. But also I would drive by the campus and see the architecture building with the like lights on all the time.

00:59:31.020 - 00:59:45.080

And I'm like, "What are they doing in there? What is that?" I could see myself in there. And my art teacher played a Maya Lin documentary on the Vietnam War Memorial and how she won that competition unanimously with one

00:59:45.150 - 01:00:00.780

watercolor. And I had never lost anyone in my life. But when I saw that, I was just like— I got this download of like, "Oh my gosh, creating space for humanity to grieve an unpopular war that no one wanted to take part in."

01:00:01.510 - 01:00:17.370

And then her being of Asian American descent, being discriminated against this monolithic symbol of a war that's not glorifying one hero on a horse. Like my— like it was like— I like the element

01:00:18.110 - 01:00:32.210

of dealing with grief, and then holding space for the collective. Also the hand— it's just a simple concept, but very strong. I kind of resonate with that.

01:00:32.370 - 01:00:45.180

And the thoughtfulness of the element of time of when each person died. Like I just— that blew my mind. And I was like, this is like art— like meta- art, next level,

01:00:46.140 - 01:00:56.450

meaning of life kind of thing. So like, I was like, “Okay, KTRU DJ, art-architecture students never sleeping like me. Maya Lin.

01:00:57.690 - 01:01:10.830

And my parents were in Memphis, so being in Houston would be convenient to check on the house and stuff like that.” It was just like everything was kind of aligning to apply to Rice and see if I can get into the architecture program.

01:01:11.370 - 01:01:22.420

And I noticed that the application was the only one that said, "Fill in this box with something that appeals to you." I'm like, “tThat's so wild. I'm in for this.” And that was my top choice.

01:01:22.770 - 01:01:32.300

So I applied like early decision and got it. But I also did apply to RISD , was a design art school. My dad wanted me to be a lawyer. I don't why.

01:01:32.760 - 01:01:42.440

But I applied to Rhodes, but it was like, “Uh. Feels haunted in here.” I didn't realize. I just applied to all these different things. But Rice was my first choice.

01:01:42.460 - 01:01:56.400

So I ended up there. It was funny, because when my parents had left me to do their business, I went on campus— I was like, “Wow, free food. Like I don't have to worry about like where I'm going to get food or

01:01:56.420 - 01:02:08.100

like the next thing,” because those are little things I had to worry about when they weren't around in high school. My half-sis, my sis, my full sister basically raised me into, goddess— like adult role at a young age.

01:02:12.920 - 01:02:27.300

Rice, yeah. So that's how I ended up at Rice. And it's kind of gone full circle with "Portal of Healing" because that concept of holding space for the collective grief during an unpopular or civil unrest, I guess— it's

01:02:28.270 - 01:02:42.900

still going on right now. It's like these themes are in your mind, and they kind of circle— that's like, my time is this cyclical thing. It's like when I met Ann, I just— we

01:02:42.900 - 01:02:55.910

were talking about these exhibitions, and "Faces in the Pandemic," and I just talked about this natural progression about healing, what would that look like? And it kind of just happened organically.

01:02:55.940 - 01:03:10.080

Yeah, it's just a coincidence that I went to Rice and it's at Rice. And it's in a portal with this portal shape. Yeah,

01:03:16.180 - 01:03:28.150

and I'm still here, I guess I'm still connected. So that's kind of cool, as an artist instead of architect. We're also so honored to close that loop

01:03:28.530 - 01:03:47.940

with you in the "Portal of Healing" and you-you starting at Rice. Can you tell us a little bit more about how you started being a creative? And what were your earlier works like? Being a creative— so

01:03:48.070 - 01:04:04.160

growing up around adults, I think I naturally created my own world or bubble. So that's like my— with my like stories and poems. I still have them here. And I wouldn't talk about themes

01:04:04.160 - 01:04:23.420

like war and sustainability at like a young age. It's like where did I get these like ideas? And I don't know if it has to do with growing up around adults— like maybe I felt feel things so intensely,

01:04:23.470 - 01:04:34.460

because it's just like I'm in my own bubble making things. And I was also drawn to playing piano and feeling music.

01:04:35.360 - 01:04:52.710

And then dance is also an expression where your body is the conduit. So like when I listen to a piece, there's a trill like I naturally like do these. Like even at a concert, someone will be like, "You're way too magical.

01:04:52.710 - 01:05:09.340

I don't know how you're feeling the music.” But I think It's just something that comes naturally to me. It's funny, there's this kind of stereotype about Filipinos: you're not Filipino if you can't sing, dance, or play an

01:05:09.390 - 01:05:22.050

instrument . Yeah, 'cause there's like a lot of like seeing game shows or like, you know, when you go to a party, we always bring a karaoke machine.

01:05:22.720 - 01:05:38.920

So like my family is very loud, very gregarious. We're not restrained at all. And so I think that was also kind of like a nour–nour–nourishing ground or nourishing— something ground, nourishing ground,

01:05:42.110 - 01:05:56.310

for creative expression. So like one Christmas, like my cousins and my aunt dance to BTS "Mic Drop," and then after that, my one cousin read a Pablo Neruda

01:05:56.980 - 01:06:11.410

poem. It's like, "I like it when you're quiet." Everyone's like, "You know what? I like it when you're quiet, be quiet!" And, you know, like I just find it's very quirky, like— and we're not all

01:06:11.530 - 01:06:20.070

artists, but like we just love doing this kind of weird talent show thing. It's not even a talent show. It's just like, “This is what I'm doing for the

01:06:20.150 - 01:06:33.370

night.” And oh, I know, my–my great grandma married a saxophonist. And he was a fisherman, and she sold a piece of

01:06:33.370 - 01:06:46.290

land for a grocery store and would rent the top story to fishermen that need a place to board. I think that's how she met my great grandpa by like— I get the sense that they just like woke up and live their life.

01:06:46.710 - 01:06:59.380

So I— when I read about my great grandmother living at the shore like I was like, "Oh, this is where I get it from." She had wild hair and was ambidextrous like me, and just loved like— she played

01:06:59.460 - 01:07:10.790

piano, and then also painted landscapes when she was losing her-her eyesight. And she had like a loony sense of humor, and would like bake cookies in the shape of penises just for fun.

01:07:11.960 - 01:07:23.960

And when my dad met her, she was already losing her eyesight. And she goes, “It's great to meet you, I know I can't see you. But I'm imagining you naked." And, like it caught him off guard.

01:07:24.220 - 01:07:37.100

And he's like laughing. And like just when I hear about her and like— I feel like this is like where I come from. This makes sense. Not this whole like, "Do what you need to

01:07:37.180 - 01:07:55.640

do to survive and make money." I think I'm blessed to have been born in this generation where I can have more freedom to like experiment with something that's not solely based on surviving in another country like-like my mom did.

01:07:55.660 - 01:08:08.060

And— what am I talking about now? Creativity? So yeah, that's like in my blood. We love to sing, we love to

01:08:08.170 - 01:08:21.890

dance real loud with how we're feeling. And sometimes families where they're like, you know, holding in things and they’re just like eating politely, I just feel like I'm on eggshells. Like that's just not what I grew up around.

01:08:25.990 - 01:08:41.770

So creativity, I also would play piano and I was also in theatre. I did like lip synching— that’s not even like a serious thing. I would go to like lip sync competitions and

01:08:41.810 - 01:08:58.190

like lip sync to ____ or TLC. Really great group in the 90s. And I think that has to do with like liking karaoke, and like just having fun, and not taking things too

01:08:58.210 - 01:09:19.960

seriously. That's something that's part of being creative, I think. Because once you take it too seriously, it's like—it become this— I don't know like a job in

01:09:20.050 - 01:09:38.870

a bad way? And the word job is weird too, like didn't that guy, like suffered a lot in the bible? Um, but yeah, like creativity is not something I can like turn on or off, or like there's this-there's this formative

01:09:38.900 - 01:09:53.550

moment when I'm creative. Like I've always had this sense of, “I'm feeling it so let's do it!” You know, kind of thing. Also growing up when my parents were focusing on their business, so they don't

01:09:53.610 - 01:10:07.070

have attention to tell me, "Rachel, stop doing that. You need to..." It was like kind of a lack of discipline. So I think that also nourishes my creativity, 'cause it's like I don't have rules.

01:10:07.070 - 01:10:19.750

Like, it's amazing that I turned out this way that I know I could have gone really bad. But that's why I thrive in-in a capitalistic kind of structure where I can create

01:10:19.750 - 01:10:37.890

my own time and don't have to answer to someone at like 9 a. m. every day, like— I don't know if that makes sense. But like yeah, I think we're all— we're also all creative people, like just being able to ask better questions

01:10:38.040 - 01:10:53.340

and say something, and we're— everyone's a contribution. We're humans, like, you know, you were creating things, whether we're aware of them or not. You know, even the way you enter a room, it shifts a certain vibe.

01:10:53.630 - 01:11:14.140

And I'm very like present to that kind of thing. I think with the art and the thing—and all of this stuff, that comes from realizing you can take that as an elective. And, like, enter _____ competitions in high school.

01:11:14.410 - 01:11:29.990

I think that's where you like— you get awards for these things. I'm like, “Oh, cool, I don't even have to like— this is fun.” I don't know. And when my art teacher showed me the Maya Lin documentary that was like, “Oh, let's do architecture,” because

01:11:30.010 - 01:11:45.990

architecture is kind of like— it becomes a place that you can feel in. It's like-it's like walking into the canvas, or like walking into—the concept like blew my mind. Like, it's just another dimension of this kind of visual scene that you form.

01:11:47.180 - 01:12:02.880

And I did thrive more during my first year in architecture school, because it's very more abstract. I struggled more in the later years, we had to be more technical and like, "Where's the air conditioning?" You know, it's like— I'm like,

01:12:02.960 - 01:12:16.250

“How can the air-conditioning unit define space and create a soft boundary between...” It feels like, you know, like—I'm just like driving this whole, like space in terms of like boundaries that are not seen, but felt.

01:12:17.030 - 01:12:35.750

So like that's another way that I— even though I studied architecture, my way of seeing is still rooted in like the formless experience: walking through a space or being in the space. And I think that's what bothered me a lot is like I'm

01:12:35.750 - 01:12:49.810

supposed— okay, I'm in school— I'm supposed to be designing for the human experience, but I'm in front of a computer like all the time. That kind of really like ate at me for a while like—and it kind of got frustrating when I

01:12:49.980 - 01:13:05.030

was just like, “I just want to see paint-paint, and put it on there and have it be there.” It was kind of like immediate gratification of something. But like with architecture, it's like sometimes it's not even your idea, and then

01:13:05.060 - 01:13:21.500

we don't know if we're going to get the funding to even build the thing, and then make it happen in the physical realm. And then we have this intention, but when humans actually go into that space, sometimes designers are

01:13:22.160 - 01:13:32.410

not thinking of like, “Can they even open the— for you to turn the light on to go into the bathroom?” And it's not— because like, when I plan things, I really can't just see what it's like to flow in there.

01:13:32.410 - 01:13:46.290

I get it immediately like interior spaces. I just— I don't have to even overthink these things. I— it just comes naturally to me. But yeah, I would say

01:13:46.310 - 01:14:02.500

architecture informs my visual art practice, and my visual art practice still informs my architecture. And even just like how we deal with existing, like how do we hold space?

01:14:04.140 - 01:14:16.580

How do we- how do we create safer spaces? How do we... I just think that creativity is going to be with me

01:14:16.700 - 01:14:30.670

till the end of time. I think that's—yeah. It's never ending like, you know, like I'm a painter, but like-like— I have like clay behind me,

01:14:30.780 - 01:14:46.630

and like I never am just like comfortable with one way of doing something, I guess. So. Yeah, can you

01:14:47.080 - 01:15:01.830

talk about like what comes into your visual art practices? For example, there's like romance and like other— abstractions, and then figurations, that's both very prevalent.

01:15:02.710 - 01:15:18.480

Yeah. What fuels your creative energy? Yeah, so like I create in real time of when I'm feeling something, and sometimes... I could be celebrating the

01:15:18.520 - 01:15:35.460

beauty of nature and I put earthtones on the canvas. And then I can't sleep for a while, and I'm like, “What's happening?” And it's like, the whole forests are burning to make room for resources and exploitation

01:15:35.610 - 01:15:53.800

of things. And then I'll just add like black onto it. And so it's like the painting is never really done, it just evolves in the moment that I connect to it. So sometimes, it's very straightforward like this, like I wanted to

01:15:53.870 - 01:16:07.320

go to Italy and travel by myself. Someone recommended the city and I painted it before I went there. Or up into a wormhole of Octavia Butler and I'll see her face.

01:16:08.340 - 01:16:24.270

Or it will be a breakup and I have— I needed space to really grieve that relationship. And I'll have the words— so it is like a visual journal, I have words that point to the experience.

01:16:25.360 - 01:16:44.350

But I obscure the word in a way, because it's not really meant for everyone to know. It was just like for me, kind of a thing. And so a lot of it is rooted in my own personal celebrations and relationships, and joy and grief.

01:16:44.980 - 01:17:06.270

And then sometimes it's more rooted in humanity and the planet and social justice, and what— how do I become a mirror to society, to hold up something that they don't have the

01:17:06.440 - 01:17:15.870

time to stop and process to think about? Because they're busy doing their nine-to-five thing, taking care of babies or whatever they have to do. I feel like as artist, like I

01:17:15.900 - 01:17:33.690

have to be present, and I’m meant to process things in this time or however long it takes for me to do it, to kind of frame this moment. And it's like, “Remember, this was f'd up.” Like, “Let’s not go there again,” or

01:17:33.690 - 01:17:50.630

“It's still a problem,” and it always has been like, what are we going to do about it? It's here for now, and you can go back to it when you have the space and time to process that or whatever it is. Space is very interesting to me, because like you paint over your words a lot.

01:17:51.070 - 01:18:02.860

And it's like sort of— it is sort of like I'm walking into a journal, but I can't really decipher what it means and I'm not supposed to. Mhm. Yeah. You talked about your journaling in another interview

01:18:03.070 - 01:18:20.200

we did, and then also oral history and that practices. You're able to combine during your "Portal of Healing." Right. And the reason why I had the words legible in "Portal of Healing" is because these are other people's

01:18:20.270 - 01:18:34.050

words. And they're essentially letting Houston Asian American Archive use that in an art piece. So I wanted to celebrate that.

01:18:34.130 - 01:18:48.140

And I made a connection with a friend that I had lost. Her name is Vivian and I wrote one quote that stuck with me, and it was, "Live awake.

01:18:48.180 - 01:19:06.350

I want to live mischievously, shamelessly, and infectiously awake." Because I had gotten the download at that moment, and she was a Rice student in architecture, Chinese American. And it was just like—

01:19:07.760 - 01:19:18.990

so some of the things are planned, and some of them aren't. And it's just like that's another example of how the piece kind of just evolves when I get like a download of something that I feel like, “This

01:19:19.030 - 01:19:31.320

needs to be on there.” And yeah, so it's like I'm a conduit for whatever needs to be expressed. And of course, it's through my own filter

01:19:31.320 - 01:19:48.870

or worth, I guess. But with "Portal of Healing," I guess it's more of like a collective visual journal of some sort. And then it even expanded into dance with Rea 's number of pairing body language with the word.

01:19:50.190 - 01:20:05.410

I'm still exploring that too, with the Texas Biennial. Filipinix Artists of Houston has been granted some space, but it's still in discussion. But I think that's another form of creative expression like collaborating with

01:20:05.920 - 01:20:20.510

a dancer and mirroring body language to express empathy, and what it feels like in the body to see another and mirror that back. Um, yeah.

01:20:20.780 - 01:20:37.600

So yeah, I'm inspired by the connections I have with people, current events, Earth shit, my own feelings in my journal when I try to process if it's a breakup,

01:20:37.620 - 01:20:51.300

or if it's like, “Yeah, I'm feeling myself,” or if it's like, “Leave me alone,” or I just love the song and it makes me feel this way. Because like the canvas can’t hold everything, that’s the beautiful thing about it.

01:20:51.340 - 01:21:05.380

And— yeah, it’s like everything inspires me. I don’t know. There's no limit. I was like driving back from the desert and I had—I still have like cactus

01:21:05.410 - 01:21:17.110

needles in me, but it was raining. But I saw that like the way the sun was setting was casting this orange shade on the road, and the blue sky was reflecting on the water.

01:21:17.440 - 01:21:34.350

So like through the windshield wiper, I could see this like cool complimentary col— like I just noticed like really— very little simple beautiful things erect me. Sometimes they're really obvious things.

01:21:35.490 - 01:21:43.660

Like the world's crumbling down, like what is happening? What is humanity? Like how did we get here? Or decolonize your mind!

01:21:44.060 - 01:21:58.090

Like words are— Or like you know, people over— people over profits, and people over... That's the thing about artists. It’s like, they're not really valued in the sense of

01:22:00.610 - 01:22:15.320

capit– capitalistic, like we actually have to create our own value. And we have to like believe in that what we're doing is meaningful. And it's kind of like— it's weird.

01:22:15.320 - 01:22:27.910

It's like my relationship with money has changed over time. It's really— it really is currency. It's an exchange of energy and time, how much are you willing to do this thing, and put like a number to it.

01:22:27.910 - 01:22:41.480

I don't even know what I'm saying anymore. But it's like... art is... I don't know, it's wild. I think it goes against the status

01:22:41.650 - 01:22:54.100

quo of like, when someone's like, "How long did it take?" Because they're thinking about like billable hours. But it's like, "I don't know, it took like my parents meeting me and having me, and me going through this experience,

01:22:55.240 - 01:23:08.890

and being able to make this connection at this moment of time to make this thing." You know, weird. It can't be measured.

01:23:11.130 - 01:23:25.700

So like, when someone asked me like, "How much is it for that?" I think in terms of reality or things like, "Okay, how much is the material? How much is the space that I'm

01:23:26.910 - 01:23:41.080

paying for to make the thing happen? What's the deadline? What's the budget?" But then also, "How much of my energy am I willing to do in exchange for this amount?" And it's kind of like evolving over time when I think

01:23:41.080 - 01:23:54.380

about these things. But also I have like more experience now under my belt of like doing things that people have paid for like in buildings and stuff, which adds to your like credibility to this.

01:23:55.030 - 01:24:09.520

But yeah, money is weird. It's really energy if you think about it. Hmm. Why am I talking about money? I guess next, can you talk a little bit about your

01:24:09.640 - 01:24:26.250

experiences with the Houston art scene? Yes. You talked about the Filipinix artists... Okay, let's see, art

01:24:29.520 - 01:24:43.020

scene... I used to be part of this church called Canvas. And it was rooted in this concept of like God as a creator, and I actually would paint during the service.

01:24:44.210 - 01:25:00.030

And it's no longer a church anymore. It was a plant but it fell apart, because there just wasn't enough members. But I started like a heat, like a woman's art workshop, as like a ministry from that.

01:25:00.350 - 01:25:16.920

So that was like my first venture in leading some kind of, “Let's engage community in an artistic way.” And these were women that were leaving violent situations or homeless, and they needed to learn

01:25:17.060 - 01:25:33.650

people skills. So they were at the Women's Home, which is a for-profit organization— which is actually great, because they can make money through the thrift shop, and that gets reinvested into teaching them computer

01:25:33.650 - 01:25:47.380

skills or running a regisla— so like their schedule was very intense. And I started volunteering at that thrift shop and was like—they're like, "This is winter wear. This is, this is medium..." I-I was like, "I don't know, I can't do this.

01:25:47.740 - 01:25:58.570

Can I just teach them art or something?" I kind of want them to just chill with me. And we paint nails, or I teach them how to make a pot of thing or we knit a thing.

01:25:58.570 - 01:26:15.140

Like, let's just be—this is like too much. So, with the Women's Home, I really got to connect with, you know, my local community down— they live down the street from me in Montrose.

01:26:16.480 - 01:26:31.640

And just hearing their stories and holding space for that. And then I started questioning like my day job at a very corporate firm, because I felt like I was lacking that kind of connection, having a staring contest with my computer all day.

01:26:31.990 - 01:26:43.370

And I was like, "What's another way that I can do these things?" So then I started doing art in yoga workshops with one of my neighbors. Her name's Nicole Peralta.

01:26:44.200 - 01:26:53.420

And she had a vision of teaching art after a yoga practice. So then I got involved in like a whole Yoga Mind Body connection community. And

01:26:59.370 - 01:27:14.040

then we would also have art dates. So a few times a month, we would just create and meet at coffee shops, and do that. And then I realized, one of my architecture friends from a different firm

01:27:14.060 - 01:27:26.760

wanted to learn portraits. So we took classes at the Art League . And there's a lot of great teachers there that I've learned from its students, without like the whole structure of being at a university and stuff.

01:27:26.760 - 01:27:38.830

It was more— you know, nothing's for a grade. There was a freedom in connecting with my classmates and teachers there. And then I learned about

01:27:39.860 - 01:27:55.480

Artist Inc, which is a business-oriented— like trying to help artists how to run and monetize on their creativity, and it's through Fresh Arts, a nonprofit organization. I applied to that, and I was like,

01:27:55.920 - 01:28:08.010

“Yeah, no one teaches us about like these things, like taxes and money and how to market whatever.” And I've met a lot of people through that. Anthony Pabillano was one of them.

01:28:08.140 - 01:28:22.930

And so we actually presented at City Hall about our art practice, and that was like nerve wracking, but really cool for me to do. And I'm still in touch with them when they have events, they have one coming up.

01:28:24.040 - 01:28:42.980

I think Royal Sumikat is part of the panel, Carlos Y Su, ran— like a lot of people that I've met through there. And it's really great, because it's not really about learning x, y, z, but like being plugged into this community so that anytime you have a

01:28:43.130 - 01:28:56.100

question in your practice, you would at least know where to go to to point you to the right person, because we also had speakers come from there. And then with Filinipix Artists of Houston with Matt

01:28:56.490 - 01:29:14.780

Manalo, he started an email list of all Filipino creatives in the area. And when we met, it was just like a Filipino party. It was great. And, you know, we get this similar sense of humor of things. And I think a lot of the theme of

01:29:14.880 - 01:29:31.180

decolonization and reclaiming our story and listening to our ancestors. That's a very strong theme that I don't get from, let's say, Artists Inc, or the Women's Home, because it's a different kind of, you know, thing.

01:29:31.230 - 01:29:47.510

And I think that's also how I got into the Houston Asian American Archive 'cause it's about reclaiming the oral tradition, owning your story, and sharing your story as you want it being told and not letting the media like create the narrative for you.

01:29:48.050 - 01:30:02.730

I'm so sick of that like whenever I read, whether it's geared towards the left or the right, I'm like this is all not true. Like I don't know why, it just bothers me that when we do find the platform to be heard, it gets

01:30:02.800 - 01:30:21.630

misconstrued in a weird way that brings us back to these like limited ways of siloing off people and their ideals and values. So Filipinix Artists of Houston is really great, because

01:30:24.030 - 01:30:40.560

it's a place where we can talk about these things and not have to translate it. When I say "decolonize your mind," like not everyone would know what I'm talking about, right? I don't know, it's not something you hear in normal conversation at an

01:30:40.580 - 01:30:52.520

art group. And I learned from them a lot. So that's really cool. And I've connected with some people that are also about the moon and the stars and planets.

01:30:53.170 - 01:31:10.340

So it's like I don't need to translate that either. So I also have a group that is about the moon and the stars, and we meet every new moon, full moon, with intentions. It's three of my-my really good friends I've

01:31:10.460 - 01:31:29.230

known. And there's also... hmm.. let me see, there’s that balloon group. "BTS Army" is another collective that I'm plugged into. And they're actually into like numerology and the meaning behind these

01:31:29.460 - 01:31:44.630

numbers and that. And then there's also like social activist groups that are all about how do we use our privilege, in turn— when people are being oppressed or how can we help when in the grants of being

01:31:46.110 - 01:32:01.080

deported. So like I was part of this like weird secret. I don't know if I should say this, but I was like— there's this group called Surge and they had like, “In terms of crises, are you going to be available when these things happen?”

01:32:02.540 - 01:32:15.600

I don't-I don't think I'm like super active with them right now. But it's like, yeah, I'm part of a lot of different communities. Not so much the architecture one

01:32:15.600 - 01:32:30.890

anymore that I used to be. It's just not me anymore. But that's okay. And the art community in terms of like the studio, so Hardy and Nance has a

01:32:30.960 - 01:32:43.390

whole other community. And Holy Family is a church that does an artist resident— artist collective, I was part of that too. And sometimes I do creativity and spirituality exercises with them.

01:32:44.090 - 01:32:57.680

That's how I met the author of this poetry book, Sarah Triana, that I'm illustrating. So yeah, they all kind of like overlap into this thing and I... It's really great too, because it's like I

01:32:58.410 - 01:33:18.320

get different energies and I can have different conversations with these people. And some of them are in more than one of them. So I think it's really culturally rich. And ideologically too, I guess?

01:33:18.480 - 01:33:33.840

Because, you know, worldviews are always changing. It's good to not only be with people who've been one way. Yeah. That's community for me.

01:33:33.870 - 01:33:47.320

Thank you for sharing. Yeah. I guess as we are approaching the end of the interview, would you be willing to share or leave a time capsule with us for the future

01:33:48.960 - 01:34:02.340

of mankind? What is-what is— how big is that? Is it a really thing? Or digital? It's a kind of conceptual time capsule. Oh, we can talk about it. Yeah, like if you're interested in this, just like leave in

01:34:02.480 - 01:34:20.180

front of the camera as a way to kind of show the kind of— the post apocalyptic world when the human— aliens discovers it, what you want to tell them about? Oh, it's a question that I can say right now?

01:34:20.790 - 01:34:39.340

Okay, so I believe that we all have— we are all contributing. We all have gifts, and it's your duty to note— to really live into that creative expression, whatever

01:34:39.360 - 01:34:52.840

that is. You know, even if you're an accountant, like how are you using the numbers to like defy the status quo and this, you know, are you decolonizing the calendar— what are you doing?

01:34:52.880 - 01:35:03.670

It doesn't need to be this like artistic woowoo thing. But whatever your gift is, I believe that we're all healers. We're all-we all have different gifts, and we're all a contribution.

01:35:04.910 - 01:35:20.300

And whatever you feel called to do, it may not be healed or completely solved within your lifetime. But the fact that you're here, and that there's only one of you, that's already testament enough to

01:35:20.360 - 01:35:42.770

know that you can plant those seeds for–for, you know, future lifetimes beyond your existence here— is what I would say. And, you know, whatever you believe in— I don't really care— but it's more about how

01:35:42.960 - 01:35:51.410

you show up, how do you show up to others. Does that make you like a more loving person or less loving person? Those are certain things

01:35:51.410 - 01:36:02.890

that I kind of return and ask myself. Because people can believe the same thing, but one may not show as loving as the other. I think that's more important.

01:36:03.810 - 01:36:16.470

You know, we try to over intellectualize things, but like, how are you really showing up with your heart? And what are you giving your energy to? I guess, in what way?

01:36:16.800 - 01:36:31.220

Because I think we all have-we all have gifts. And I believe that we don't have control of the cards that were dealt with. But there is always a choice that we can make.

01:36:31.400 - 01:36:47.090

And there's power of being able to choose certain things, like it's not– it's not all mine to control. You have human agency. So plant seeds.

01:36:50.880 - 01:37:07.640

And yes, be rooted in love and peace. Thank you, Rachel. Yeah. And also like I just love Earth Mother no matter what. Because even if we fail at everything, she will

01:37:08.330 - 01:37:21.860

bounce back. Yeah, she will always. She's more resilient than any of us. She's going to. Yeah. As much as I freak out about her, I know she's like beyond

01:37:23.470 - 01:37:32.730

us. We're not beyond her. Yeah. We are visitors. Just like the aliens. Yeah.