00:00:03.640 - 00:00:15.900

Today is November 25, 2020, my name is Ann Shi. I’m with the Houston Asian American Archive. Today we have Dr. Poonam Salhotra, the wife of Mr.

00:00:15.900 - 00:00:30.770

Salhotra, who we interviewed yesterday, and we’re very grateful that you're here with us today, during this Thanksgiving week. Thank you so much for inviting us. And we're really looking forward to telling our story.

00:00:30.820 - 00:00:46.100

So thanks again. It's amazing. Thank you. To start, can you tell us when and where were you born? So I was born in India, in the state of Punjab, actually, we call them provinces. And it was a really

00:00:46.100 - 00:00:59.210

tiny town named Malakpur. M-A-L-A-K-P-U-R. And it's where my grandparents, my paternal grandparents lived. And my maternal grandmother really wanted her.

00:01:01.120 - 00:01:14.240

So I was the first grandchild of a son. So this would be somebody who would carry the name. And she wanted that child born in her home. So my mom who actually lived in Delhi and had a reservation at a

00:01:14.290 - 00:01:25.530

hospital to have me, you know, you know, went, went along with her wishes, and went to their home, in Malakpur, and then a midwife actually delivered me in that home.

00:01:28.350 - 00:01:42.420

Wonderful, what was your earliest memory in childhood? Hmm. Well, I remember a lot of things, but I don't know if, if they're just because they were recurring. And I kept going back to those places.

00:01:43.660 - 00:01:58.730

But I remember my grandparents home in Malakpur really well. And I also remember our home in Delhi, and my maternal grandparents' home, also in Delhi, but in a slightly different location.

00:01:59.730 - 00:02:11.460

So and then my aunt, my dad's sister lived nearby to our home in Delhi, and I remember their house vividly as well. I remember.

00:02:11.770 - 00:02:27.160

Yeah. So I think my earliest memories are probably of the different homes of my parents and my maternal and paternal grandparents. Wonderful. And what was the neighborhood like where you grew up in?

00:02:28.350 - 00:02:42.950

So it was a, it was a small area within a large city. And probably not too unlike Bellaire where we live right now in near Houston. So it was called labujnagar.

00:02:43.600 - 00:02:58.910

And I don't know the population at the time, but it had a lot of single family homes. And we lived in a home where it was kind of like a duplex. So we lived on one side, and the landlord lived on the other side.

00:02:58.910 - 00:03:12.350

So this was a rental home for my parents, and houses around us. You know, people just like my parents, middle upper middle class, working professionals, and they all had one to two kids.

00:03:13.780 - 00:03:23.270

And it was. it was just very open. So everybody's, you know how gates were always open. And the kids were running in and out of different, different people's

00:03:23.450 - 00:03:36.670

homes always playing on the street, or in the courtyard of people's home. So very friendly neighborhood, everybody knew everybody. Not village-like maybe like a small town, like even though it was

00:03:36.700 - 00:03:53.790

in a large city still. That's wonderful. And do you remember some of the games you play with your childhood friends? I do. So one of the ones was a jump rope game where two people would be holding the

00:03:53.790 - 00:04:06.270

rope on either side and, and twirling it and then you would jump into it. And then so you would jump in the next person would jump out, you would jump in. And sometimes of course, four feet would get entangled in the in the

00:04:06.270 - 00:04:19.110

rope. So it was a quite a finesse to get in there, you know, get in and out. And then another one that we played, used to be called “fi-tu”, which I think just means rocks. And what we used to do was we would

00:04:20.730 - 00:04:34.010

stack up like seven rocks, and they were flat rocks and the bottom one would be the largest one, and then they got smaller, so it looks like a little pyramid. And then on your team, you would get a ball like a little

00:04:34.010 - 00:04:47.650

tennis ball, and you would throw it at that stack to try to make it break. And then before somebody could tag you with the ball, you have to get all of them back up again. So you would you know go and try to

00:04:47.650 - 00:05:00.310

stack a couple and then somebody's chasing you with the ball you'd run away and then you'd come back and then you'd stack up the rest. So depending on whether you you stack them first or somebody got you first.

00:05:00.870 - 00:05:12.990

So that was a really, really interesting game, we played a lot of hide and seek. And this is where all those houses came in really handy. So we were in and out of people's homes the entire time, you know, so

00:05:12.990 - 00:05:22.150

there'll be a back door and a front door. So we'd enter the front door, go out the back door, go into another house when somebody who's looking for you. And I remember that really well.

00:05:22.150 - 00:05:34.950

It was a lot of fun to be a kid at that time. That's such a fondly memories. And could you describe like the, the neighborhood like the

00:05:34.950 - 00:05:48.570

safety, like, it sounds like, people go in from the front and the back. And Yeah, so it was. So as you'd walk to the house, they would be like, which might be short, so maybe up

00:05:48.610 - 00:06:02.540

to your waist, or it may be taller, and it would be like up to your maybe up to your face. And then there wouldn't be a gate in that wall that you'd have to go in. So you'd open the gate, go in, and people generally

00:06:03.090 - 00:06:15.490

did not have lawns in the front, they generally had cemented courtyards. So you would have a courtyard in front of the house, which may or may not be covered at the top, and then you'd have a

00:06:15.490 - 00:06:23.190

front door that you'd walk into. And generally, things were laid out in a very simple way. So you'd have like one room

00:06:23.190 - 00:06:35.220

after the other and then a parallel one room after the other. And then at that time, the kitchen was not attached to the rest of the home. So the living room and the bedrooms would be attached.

00:06:35.920 - 00:06:51.130

But then the kitchen would be a little further out. And you'd have to go in the back courtyard, to get to the kitchen. And then the restrooms were also outside of the main living quarter of the home. So that was I remember

00:06:51.130 - 00:07:05.980

having to like, you know, in the wintertime, it was, be very cold, and the homes were not centrally heated. And so instead of my mom having to carry the, what we make those rotis, and those are like tortillas, and

00:07:06.940 - 00:07:17.550

so she would make the rest of the dinner first. But then the tortillas, she'd make the rotis, she'd make one at a time, so you would get a hot one. So instead of her having to run back and forth between the kitchen,

00:07:18.230 - 00:07:28.570

and the dining area, which were far apart from the courtyard, we'd all go and live stay in the kitchen, and then we shut the door to the kitchen. So it would be nice and warm inside. And all of us would be huddled

00:07:28.650 - 00:07:42.390

in the kitchen eating during the winter time. So that's pretty much how a lot of the homes were set up in our area. You mentioned the winter, like how cold did it get?

00:07:42.620 - 00:07:56.270

So it would get as cold as probably Houston. But remember, there was no central heat. So it would feel a lot colder. And you know, trying to give a bath to a child, you know, and there was no hot water

00:07:56.270 - 00:08:09.100

running. So you first shave to heat the water, and then you know bring a bucket full of water to the bathroom, mix it with colds and get the right temperature and then have a bath. But while you were having a bath, it was not warm.

00:08:09.190 - 00:08:21.190

You know it was cold. So when the water was not going on your body, you'd be feeling really cold. So the temperature was I mean, it would be really manageable if you have you know, heat, but it was it was cold.

00:08:21.190 - 00:08:36.890

I mean, we felt cold in the winter. Yeah, it's interesting to hear that back in the days without the actual running water. Yeah, it was all cold water coming out. So it was great in the summertime, but hard in the wintertime.

00:08:37.250 - 00:08:49.320

I mean, I remember we had in my school, we had to wear a uniform, and the uniform was a skirt. And we didn't have tights at that time. No, we didn't. We weren't allowed to wear tights I should say.

00:08:49.730 - 00:08:59.780

So we wore like knee high socks. And I remember feeling cold when we were standing for the assembly because we had to stand still. You couldn't move at that time.

00:08:59.870 - 00:09:10.230

There was an assembly every morning for classes started. And I remember feeling cold and the skirts and they weren't like long skirts. They were above the knee, so it was cold.

00:09:13.410 - 00:09:28.010

So can you describe the food you have back in childhood? Sure. So the food actually has remained pretty similar. I think Indian people are very attached to their food. So we would primarily vegetarian diet.

00:09:29.830 - 00:09:45.300

Meat was typically expensive, but also religion buys most of the Hindus didn't really eat meat. My dad probably did eat meat when he went out but my mom was a vegetarian, so we only cooked vegetarian in the house.

00:09:45.970 - 00:10:02.090

So typical, you know, breakfast would be probably not you know, we didn't need cereal or anything. It would either be like bread and jam, or there might be some kind of a hot cereal type thing that you would get some grain

00:10:03.420 - 00:10:18.880

or they would make my mom would make the rotis. But they were made when something called ferranti, which is a little bit richer because it has more butter in it, or they would stuff them with something like potato, you know, mashed potatoes or

00:10:19.450 - 00:10:34.160

some other vegetable and cook it that way. And lunch, of course, you know, we would carry our lunch to school like a sandwich or something. And then dinner, we would have some kind of a protein source like

00:10:34.160 - 00:10:51.710

a lentil, or a bean you know, kidney beans or chickpeas. And then one vegetable, one cooked vegetable. So these are all cooked in and you know quite a bit of sauce and spices. And then with that we would

00:10:51.740 - 00:11:03.370

have roti, so roti is made with whole wheat flour. And my mom would make the dough pretty much daily or at least every other month. Yeah, daily, because we didn't have refrigerator all, the whole time I was

00:11:03.440 - 00:11:19.070

growing up there. So everything was made every day. And she would then make the rotis one at a time. So you have to make little, little balls and then roll them out and then put them on a griddle.

00:11:19.700 - 00:11:33.060

And there's it's they're very healthy, you know, I still make them for my family today. You can of course buy a lot of them today. But it's still more healthy to make them fresh at your in your own home. So that was a typical meal.

00:11:33.420 - 00:11:48.000

And a lot of times yogurt, so plain yogurt made at home and I still make yogurt at home was was also part of the diet. That's interesting, makes me hungry.

00:11:48.520 - 00:12:00.270

And I'm wondering what kind of way of life or spirituality that you grew up with? So you know, in India, it's a little different than it is here.

00:12:00.900 - 00:12:16.930

And even the Hindu temples here have sort of conformed a little bit to how people's schedules are. But in India, when I was growing up, there wasn't any like, sermon per se that you would go to.

00:12:17.440 - 00:12:30.770

And Sunday was not the religious day for us, it was Tuesday. And so we would go to the temple on Tuesday evenings, you know, because people were working, so we would go in the evening time, and you would take some

00:12:30.990 - 00:12:46.060

offerings, and we have idols in the in the temple, and you would take offerings of sweets and flowers. And then you would give that when it was your turn would hand it to the priest who would then give it to the God and

00:12:46.060 - 00:12:55.850

bless it. And they would keep some of it what you took. And then they would return the rest of it to you, which was the blessed fruits and sweets.

00:12:56.290 - 00:13:10.590

And then you would you know, say your say your prayers, sometimes there would be hymns being chanted, and then you could sit and chant along. Otherwise, you would just do your offerings, and then you would leave.

00:13:10.590 - 00:13:24.900

And interestingly, when you left, right outside the temple, there would be a lot of poor people, you know, beggars lined up, because they knew people coming from the temple would have food, and they would give it to them.

00:13:24.900 - 00:13:38.860

So you know, you would then distribute a little bit of your food to as many as you could, saving some to take home because you would then give it to your family because it was something that had been blessed by by God.

00:13:39.640 - 00:13:57.650

So typically, we did that I, I won't say that we went every Tuesday, but I would say we went at least a couple Tuesdays a month. And then of course, if you had a if you had a if you had some kind of religious holiday, then we would definitely go

00:13:57.650 - 00:14:05.920

and then you know, then tend to get a little more dressed up. And then the temple may also have a little bit longer program. Here, it's a little different.

00:14:05.920 - 00:14:20.420

So here when we go to temple, you know, it's on Sundays, and there is like a Sunday school type of class that is done for kids. And then there is a sermon that is done on the adult side. So that's very different.

00:14:20.420 - 00:14:33.410

So the sermons are basically interpretations of, of the religious books, mainly the Gita, and you know how to live your life and then there are some singing of hymns, etc. And on the kids

00:14:33.410 - 00:14:42.880

side is the same thing. You know, they teach you about ethics and values and the language so not a lot not all the kids here know the language.

00:14:43.500 - 00:14:55.000

So those are the types of things but in India, it's very different. It's very different to just go and use more of an individual thing rather than the whole community sitting together and doing sermons and praying together.

00:14:58.210 - 00:15:11.960

Thank you for sharing. And I was wondering, can you describe your parents and the family values that they brought you up with? Sure. So I would say, you know, I think maybe a lot of Indian kids say this, but I would

00:15:11.960 - 00:15:22.720

say I have phenomenal parents. And so my dad, you know, was, they're both educated, both educated people coming from educated families.

00:15:23.440 - 00:15:38.800

And, you know, the, the way of life was very simple. And we were taught to live very simply, you know, we didn't, my dad didn't didn't even want me to get my ears pierced. In fact, I didn't get my ears pierced until I was like 13, and

00:15:39.190 - 00:15:53.250

protested that all my friends had them pierced, and I was already the United States. And, and no, so no jewelry, no makeup, you know, lead a simple life, concentrate on your studies, be good to others, you know,

00:15:53.580 - 00:16:07.240

notice the people who don't have as much as you and try to help them, you know, however, you can, no, begging, begging was very common in India, at that time, beggars would come to your home, you know, and ask for

00:16:07.540 - 00:16:20.090

whatever you wanted to give them. You know, my parents didn't believe in giving money, because they didn't know how they would spend the money. But they would like to give them like wheat flour, or some kind of stuff to eat, to take home

00:16:20.310 - 00:16:33.900

for their families so that they could, you know, have at least have decent meals. And I guess, morally, you know, just to make sure that you don't lie, you don't cheat people, you tell the truth.

00:16:34.680 - 00:16:49.150

Be nice to your neighbors, be nice to your friends, just sort of the typical things that you would expect parents to be teaching their kids. And, you know, bit a lot of emphasis on education, you know, there was

00:16:49.410 - 00:17:00.870

never any question in our minds that we would go on to higher education, and very family oriented, so we would go, my maternal grandparents lived in the same city as my parents.

00:17:01.430 - 00:17:15.330

So we would go to my maternal grandparents house every weekend. And then, my paternal grandparents live further away in Malachor, as I said, so we would go there for the entire summer break.

00:17:15.990 - 00:17:31.660

And then my aunt lived really close by, and she had four kids, all of whom were older than me. And we spent a lot of time with them, if not daily, at least, you know, three or four times a week, we would go over there and hang around with them.

00:17:32.290 - 00:17:45.210

And I think most of the people who lived around us were really good friends with my parents. So there was a lot of respect for them. So you know, in our culture, your relatives have

00:17:45.860 - 00:17:58.440

specific titles. So you say the name and you say that title. So for example, my father sisters called Booyah. So we would say her name.

00:17:58.440 - 00:18:07.600

So my blog will live there, I have three boys. So the one who lived near to us her name was Maya. So I would say Maya Booyah or Maya Buji.

00:18:07.980 - 00:18:23.220

So “Ji” is like a respect, respectful term that you add to people who are elder to you. And then everybody else who was not related to you, but like, was a friend of your parents, you would use uncle

00:18:23.220 - 00:18:39.310

and aunt for them. So there was just a lot of respect for for elders, I think that that's a big part of our culture. Thank you for sharing. Can you also share a bit about meaning behind your name, and

00:18:39.410 - 00:18:49.700

who gave you the name? That's really an interesting story. Because in India, I'm not sure if it's true now. But at that time, you

00:18:49.700 - 00:19:01.950

did not have to give your child an official name in order to leave the hospital. And of course, I as I told you was not even born in the hospital. But my brother was and even for him, you could just have like a

00:19:01.950 - 00:19:13.350

nickname or something, you know, so you weren't issued a birth certificate right at that time. And so I of course, didn't have a name right away. And in fact, in our culture, they have a big ceremonies called num

00:19:13.410 - 00:19:26.980

kutter. That's where you're given your official name. And until then, you might be called sweetie or, you know, candy or something, just like some nickname that was very generic. A lot of people would be

00:19:26.980 - 00:19:38.080

called that. I was. don't like to share it too often, but my nickname was “ma-tu”, and ma-tu means chubby. So I was a very chubby toddler. So that's I was That was my nickname.

00:19:38.080 - 00:19:49.040

And there are still people in my family that will call me that. But my, so the first name that I was given was actually not the name that I have now.

00:19:49.480 - 00:19:58.660

It was Indrani. And that's, you know, one of the goddess’s name. And I think my mom thought I think my uncle gave me that name.

00:19:58.710 - 00:20:08.990

Her brother, my mom's brother. But I think my mom thought it was an old fashioned name. So she changed it to Poonam and the first time that my name would be registered

00:20:09.010 - 00:20:19.910

officially was when I started school. So I didn't have a birth certificate having been born at home. So when I started school, that's when my mom wanted to make sure that I would have a name that that she wanted.

00:20:20.630 - 00:20:36.740

So she gave me the name Poonam, and so Poonam means full moon, the face of the full moon. And so that's what my name has been ever since. And that's your maiden name. Gulati is that...?

00:20:37.840 - 00:20:50.880

Does that have a meaning behind it? No, I don't know if it does, I don't know it. And I think the way that the, at that time, my last name, my father's last name, I think they came about with like the region

00:20:50.880 - 00:21:03.170

that maybe you lived in, or the village you lived in, and it may have been longer and got shortened. But I don't know if Gulati was the name of some village way back when.

00:21:04.310 - 00:21:14.060

I never found that out. But it's a good question maybe worth exploring for me. He's, yeah, so I just, I mean, there are a lot of Gulati.

00:21:14.060 - 00:21:26.840

So it's not as common as Smith. But it's not uncommon either. So you know, we'd like in my class, you know, I would, I could find another Gulati. And even now, like, I'll meet Gulati, so it's not an uncommon.

00:21:29.250 - 00:21:43.610

Thank you. But you know, on that note, excuse me, names are very regional, the last names are very regional, because Gulati. If you hear the name Gulati, you probably automatically know that I'm from the Punjab

00:21:43.640 - 00:21:58.970

area. So it's very interesting because I can listen to somebody some Indian person's name and kind of tell you what part of the country they're from based on their last name. Thank you for sharing that. Very interesting facts.

00:22:00.460 - 00:22:17.260

And also, I'm wondering, being born at home to a midwife is that a common practice back then? Definitely not for people living in the city, like we were. I think it was just my grandmother's wish.

00:22:17.360 - 00:22:31.010

And you know, because she lived in a small place. I think the villages at that time, that was the practice. And to some extent, that still may be the practice, because there may not be a doctor around for quite, you

00:22:31.010 - 00:22:45.830

know, quite a distance. But yeah, even like, towns and cities, it's not no longer a common practice it and even at that time, like none of my parents, friends in

00:22:45.830 - 00:22:56.100

our neighborhood, I don't think anybody was born at home. So I think most people were born in the in the hospital. My brother was born in the hospital as well. He's six years younger to me.

00:22:58.910 - 00:23:07.590

And are you close with your siblings? Very close to my brother. He's my only sibling. He lives in Minneapolis on Rog, his name is Rob

00:23:08.120 - 00:23:18.180

Gulati. And he's an attorney by profession. And he works for General Mills. He's their in-house in-house counsel. And he and I are very close.

00:23:18.220 - 00:23:31.470

I think growing up, we were probably very close as well. But there was an age gap of six years. And I probably played the, you know, the strong Big Sister role. He, I think would follow me around everywhere.

00:23:33.830 - 00:23:46.440

So yeah, we've we've been very close. And we continue to remain close, you know, especially as my parents have aged and they've needed our help. They move to Houston when they you know, when they got older.

00:23:47.090 - 00:23:54.530

So we talk all the time about their care. And he's my kids are very close to him. And vice versa. His kids are very close to us.

00:23:55.040 - 00:24:08.160

Oh, yeah. So been very lucky that way. And then next, I'm wondering if we can move on to schools. So in your earlier education, like what was your favorite subject?

00:24:08.350 - 00:24:22.620

Can you share with us some of the interesting stories? Sure. So you know, in India, I went to a school it was an Air Force school. And everything we were taught in English, everything was in English.

00:24:23.490 - 00:24:37.000

I don't I don't know if I remember any favorite subject. I think maybe Hindi, which is our language, native language. I think that was my favorite subject. I was very good at it. And then we came to this

00:24:37.300 - 00:24:52.210

country and I started my schooling basically in middle school and like seventh, what used to be called junior high. So in seventh grade, I did a little bit of sixth grade because we came in March and it was not quite done yet.

00:24:53.240 - 00:25:07.350

But then I started in seventh grade, but I already finished sixth in India, but so I just did a little bit here and there. I started in seventh grade. And I think I really liked math, that was one of my favorite

00:25:07.350 - 00:25:21.880

subjects. I was how I probably liked chemistry a lot. I don't, English to some extent, you know, maybe not as much I wasn't ever super fond of social studies.

00:25:23.220 - 00:25:35.820

I did like languages, then I learned German as my as my other language. And I was very fond of that. I still remember my teacher and her name and how she walked and what she said, I still remember a lot of stuff about her.

00:25:36.580 - 00:25:51.750

So in high school, I would say, you know, probably math and German, and to some extent, chemistry as well. And then in college, I chose chemistry as my major. And did it for about two and a half years, then

00:25:52.120 - 00:26:05.890

decided I couldn't handle physical chemistry, and decided that I needed to leave the chemistry major. And my dad, who's also a chemist, you know, thought I could not leave this, this the sciences, but actually,

00:26:05.890 - 00:26:21.690

engineering would have been fine to our math, the STEM fields, because he wanted to make sure you know, we were in a new country. And when we didn't have a lot of family here, and he wanted to make sure that I would be able to take care of myself economically, you know, they said, you

00:26:21.690 - 00:26:36.800

don't know what happens in marriages. And if you ever needed to stand on your own to feed, make sure that you get a good job. And I know that in the STEM field, you'll get a good job. So I switched over to I wanted to switch to

00:26:36.800 - 00:26:50.940

microbiology, but it was not a major of its own. So I switched to biology with a concentration in microbiology. I wanted to pursue social sciences. But my dad said that no, he basically put his foot down

00:26:50.940 - 00:27:01.930

said my dad, very— you know, very calm and patient man— wouldn't tell me much, you know that you have to do it. But in this case, he said, “No, you have to stay in the STEM field. Because I want to ensure

00:27:02.200 - 00:27:20.600

you know, your livelihood.” That's very interesting, because I felt like with the reading, like India, kind of has been a little bit like on the patriarchal side of the, in your family who is like

00:27:20.660 - 00:27:36.740

very much making sure that you're strong enough to be by yourself and independent as a woman. Yeah, so I think you know, there is a, there is maybe a little disconnect between which sort of

00:27:36.760 - 00:27:51.090

which socio economic status you are. And so in the lower socio economic status, they don't want, they don't want girls to be highly educated. And in fact, my mom, who had a master's degree,

00:27:52.630 - 00:28:04.360

had to fight with her dad to go get a master's degree because he didn't think women needed to be that educated. So college he was okay with, but then he thought she should get married. But then she wanted to get a higher degree.

00:28:04.360 - 00:28:20.090

So she did, but she had to protest to do that. My dad's family, I think was pretty okay with women being educated. My grandmother was not highly educated, but a very wise woman, my grandfather had a

00:28:20.090 - 00:28:35.920

master's degree in engineering, and all their daughters, I guess the older two daughters came to the age when it was still pretty old fashioned. So they didn't, they didn't go beyond.

00:28:36.020 - 00:28:46.740

I think beyond high school, they were married off. But my youngest aunt is about about the age of my mom. And she studied higher

00:28:46.740 - 00:28:57.580

education. So she actually became a teacher and then a principal. So I don't think that that their family ever had anything against it. It's just that society was sort of like that at the time.

00:28:58.810 - 00:29:13.140

And when we came here, I think it was all very different. And even even my generation in India, most of my friends and my relatives of my generation, they all have college degrees,

00:29:13.170 - 00:29:27.020

and a lot of them have professional degrees as well. So I think even if I was in India, I would have gone to college and I would have gone to a professional school. But you know, here, I mean, my thing here, my dad was a little more concerned

00:29:27.910 - 00:29:41.750

that, you know, in case you end up being by herself, because you know, when we came here, the divorce rate in this country is significantly higher than it is in India. And you just never know, you know, once you start

00:29:42.040 - 00:29:58.180

living here, what your life how it's going to evolve to be. So he, you know, he was worried he was worried that you know, if it wasn't a professional, so not just having a degree but having a degree in something that was highly employable that he would

00:29:58.180 - 00:30:17.690

not have done his job as a parent. Thank you for sharing. That's really amazing. And what are some of the most important people in your childhood in kind of shaping you as who you are you will recall?

00:30:20.340 - 00:30:35.090

Hmm. Well, you know, as I told you, we had a lot of interactions with our grandparents and uncles and aunts. So I'm sure you know, I'm sure a lot of their values and their educational achievements had

00:30:35.460 - 00:30:51.340

dropped off on me. In addition to them, I would say, probably some teachers, you know, that stand in my stand out, in my mind, in high school. You know, as I told you, I really liked my German teacher a lot.

00:30:51.500 - 00:31:08.510

But most of my teachers, studies were really easy for me when I came here from India, because I think that Indian school system was more advanced. And, you know, we had so many more subjects. So when I came here, it was like, pretty easy, you know, for me,

00:31:08.510 - 00:31:23.020

so. And I think if you're doing well, and you're from another country, you know, people tend to be, you know, they want to try to welcome you. And then if you are excelling in their classes, they are very, you know,

00:31:23.290 - 00:31:38.540

very nurturing, and they want to guide you. So a lot of my teachers in high school, I think were very supportive. I do remember though, my guidance counselor, you know, who thought that I don't know what he felt

00:31:38.540 - 00:31:50.650

like either women or kids from their school, because it was a really small town of 3000 people. So a lot of my my peers did not, did not do higher education, you know, it was a farming

00:31:50.680 - 00:32:02.570

community. And a lot of them sort of settled into that. But, you know, I didn't, my parents, and I didn't know a whole lot about colleges here. So we had come when I started seventh grade, so basically, we had six years

00:32:02.570 - 00:32:15.810

to figure it all out. And my parents had been educated somewhere else, so they didn't really know. So you know that the closest places around us was the SUNY system, the State University of New York in Buffalo.

00:32:16.650 - 00:32:31.560

And then University of Rochester, which is a private institution in Rochester about two hours away from Buffalo. So those are the schools that everybody has sort of assumed I would apply to those. And then there was another SUNY in Fredonia that was close to us.

00:32:32.470 - 00:32:47.120

And so that would be sort of another backup school to apply to. And then we met somebody who was a professor and one of the one of the universities in New York, maybe Stony Brook. And he told my parents, oh, if you're looking for a good

00:32:47.120 - 00:32:57.830

university, for your daughter, you know, Cornell is not that far away. And that's an Ivy League school. And you should think about that. And so of course, once he put that in my head, you know, that's all I wanted.

00:32:57.890 - 00:33:09.150

And so I went to my guidance counselor, you know, they had to write your letters of recommendation. And I told him that that's what I wanted. And he's like, Oh, no, that's not something that you know, kids from our school, we

00:33:09.150 - 00:33:22.060

don't go to places like Cornell, you know. So, I mean, you're better off just applying to SUNY Buffalo. So you know, we didn't have advanced placement. So we had a, what we call the 3-1-3 program.

00:33:22.680 - 00:33:31.410

So the one year in the middle, so you would do 9th 10th 11th. And then during your senior year, you could start taking college courses.

00:33:31.740 - 00:33:42.940

And then if you remained in that same college, you would enter college as a sophomore, not as a freshman, so you save the year. So it was called three years of college, three years of high school, and then one year that was combined.

00:33:43.350 - 00:33:53.110

So it was a 313 program. So I was selected for that. And I used to go to SUNY Fredonia, so that was part of the State University of New York, but for Ferdonia it was a closer campus for us.

00:33:54.460 - 00:34:10.040

And I didn't stay in Fredonia, but they did transfer my credits. And so he said, Oh, yeah, you should go to one of these. And then I applied to Cornell, and I applied early decision at that time, I didn't really know what that meant, you know, what early

00:34:10.040 - 00:34:17.700

decision really meant. It just sounded cool. So I applied to that. And there wasn't like early decision versus early action, like they

00:34:17.780 - 00:34:32.070

have not was just one early decision. And I got in. I got into early decision and, and of course, then I abandoned Rochester and Buffalo and all the other ones that I've applied to. And really excited, you know, and so I think I was,

00:34:32.520 - 00:34:43.710

I went to, I went to Cornell, and actually one of the other students from my class that year, I guess it was an ambitious class. One ended up going to Harvard and one ended up going to Brown University.

00:34:43.710 - 00:34:55.050

So we did sort of diverge a little bit from what the typical students were doing. But yeah, I would say that, you know, a lot of people in high school were very supportive, not my guidance counselor, though.

00:34:56.550 - 00:35:13.260

And then in college, you know, college was a big sort of a shock in some ways, because as I said, high school was super easy for me. But I think our high school was not of the same caliber as like people coming from New

00:35:13.260 - 00:35:26.020

York City, a lot of, lot of students came from from Manhattan, to Cornell. And I felt like they were ahead of me, you know, I caught up maybe in

00:35:26.020 - 00:35:43.170

another semester or two, but it started out that way, or they came from private schools. So Cornell was a little bit different in that, you know, it was bigger, you didn't have teachers running around after you, a lot of competition.

00:35:44.740 - 00:35:58.070

And, you know, so I would say, the one person that I would say I credit a lot from my college years, was my undergraduate research advisor in microbiology, and I didn't

00:35:58.300 - 00:36:11.940

meet him until like my junior year. So the first couple of years, you know, it was just you take your classes ,study hard, do the best you can. But he was he was really instrumental in my becoming a

00:36:11.940 - 00:36:29.300

microbiologist. So he guided me a lot and was very encouraging of the work that I used to do in his lab. In fact, he made had me make a presentation of my research project, you know, and I was obviously very nervous, I was done in less than 10 minutes.

00:36:29.720 - 00:36:42.410

And he said, You know, he just kind of sits back and smile, and he goes, I don't think Poonam tooted her horn enough. She's done a lot more than what she says she's done. So he was a very encouraging man,

00:36:44.070 - 00:36:57.330

a lovely man, actually, I'm still in touch with him. So he's kind of the person who I get, you know, when I get some successful thing happens to me, you know, I want to tell him, and then, you know, because I've considered medical school, but

00:36:58.610 - 00:37:12.390

didn't really love being when I did some work at a hospital didn't love it too much. But you know, medicine was one of the sort of expected fields for Indian kids, still is for a lot of Indian

00:37:12.390 - 00:37:25.920

kids. But he, you know, he told me, he said, You have a lot of potential in research. So I think you should really seriously consider that. So I did you know, and much to my mom's chagrin, who was really hoping for an MD in

00:37:25.920 - 00:37:39.890

the family. I ended up going to grad school. So I would say, in high school, I had several people who were encouraging, but in college, I would say he was probably the one who was was the most encouraging.

00:37:42.970 - 00:37:57.920

Really amazing to hear. Thanks. I'm also wondering, since we didn't touch on your immigration experience, and you that you came to the US with your family at 11 years old, can you share with some of

00:37:57.920 - 00:38:09.770

the kind of stories back then at 11 years old in the new environment? Yeah, it was, it was. It was interesting. It was a combination of things, you know, so my parents came

00:38:09.770 - 00:38:22.230

before we came. So my mom came and my dad came, and then my brother and I came about six months later. And it was a huge culture shock. So as I told you, the studies were not hard.

00:38:22.230 - 00:38:30.030

So that was not the hard part. But the culture was completely different. You know, I mean, we were we came from a very conservative culture.

00:38:30.890 - 00:38:46.180

And this was a very open culture. So I remember in fact, my brother, you know, who was six years younger than me, so he was about four and a half when we came. And, you know, he was, I

00:38:46.180 - 00:38:58.490

don't know, we lived up, we came and stayed with some family for a little while. And he was coming home from somewhere with other kids or with me, I don't remember. And he came home and he ran to my

00:38:58.490 - 00:39:14.790

mom. And he's like, oh, there were these naked ladies. And what he what he had seen was ladies around the swimming pool and their bikinis. So he just got so

00:39:14.790 - 00:39:26.850

upset. He's like, “Oh my god, they're naked, Mom! How can they go around like that?” So he was totally shocked. And so was I, you know, honestly, like, we had never seen anybody even in a regular bathing suit, forget about a bikini.

00:39:28.010 - 00:39:39.040

So that was quite a quite a culture shock. And then, you know, when I went to school here in middle school, like I did not know about the birds and the bees. That's not something that

00:39:39.040 - 00:39:48.830

Indian parents teach you about. But my American friends wanted to make sure I knew what how, you know, what how what the birds and the bees do. So they sat me down, and they explained everything to

00:39:48.830 - 00:40:03.920

me. And I'm like, Oh, no, that's not true. So you know, it was and then of course, dating, this is a dating culture. And we have arranged marriages and our culture. So you don't. In fact, if you date, that's called a

00:40:03.920 - 00:40:12.350

love marriage. So if you get a love marriage, it's really frowned upon. It's like you're a bad girl or a loose girl or something like that.

00:40:12.970 - 00:40:23.520

So, you know, we grew up with that mentality. And then when I came here, you know, there were boys who were interested in taking me out to for dating, and I was just like, “Oh,

00:40:23.520 - 00:40:34.210

no, no, no, no, in our culture, we don't date,” you know. So it became kind of a running joke in my school, because it was a small school, right? Everybody kind of knew I was the only Indian kid there.

00:40:35.510 - 00:40:47.560

Oh, yeah. Poonam, doesn't date, you know, that's not a thing that she does, and say, that you know, so then when the prom came around, in fact, I didn't, I didn't attend the prom. By then, you know, I mean, I started in

00:40:47.560 - 00:40:59.970

seventh grade by 11th grade. So our prom was in 11th grade, everybody knew that there was no point asking Poonam because she's not going to go anyway. So I was actually very highly disappointed in not

00:40:59.970 - 00:41:12.380

going to the prom because it was the thing to do. And by then I had assimilated quite a bit into the American culture. So my my brother's I told you six years younger than me. So I told my mom, there is

00:41:12.380 - 00:41:24.430

no way you're going to stop him from going to the prom. I said, that's just wrong. You know, because it's such a coming of age kind of thing. You know that. So he did go, but thanks to me, he did go to

00:41:24.430 - 00:41:40.250

his prom. So I think the culture was, that was the most I think that was the most interesting or difficult in some ways, because you feel like you don't fit in, right? Because the others are dating and having fun.

00:41:40.810 - 00:41:50.540

And, you know, we were very conservative. I did meet some really some really nice girls who I became very good friends with who are whose families were a little bit more conservative.

00:41:50.540 - 00:42:04.850

They were American, but very nice people. And then of course, the weather was awful. You know, I mean, I hated the weather here in Buffalo, because, you know, we came from Delhi, where it was like Houston, pretty, pretty warm

00:42:04.850 - 00:42:17.480

most of the time hot, in fact. And you know, we came and you know, so I started, so I came in March, and we came to Pennsylvania, so it was cold there, but not a lot of snow.

00:42:18.170 - 00:42:28.930

And then we moved to near Buffalo. And it was the first winter was harsh. I mean, all winters in Buffalo are harsh, harsh for me. And I fell, you know, I

00:42:28.930 - 00:42:37.270

fell on the ice and I broke my wrist. And it was my left wrist. And it was really funny. Like my dad. Well,

00:42:37.270 - 00:42:47.810

not funny, the pain was was really bad. But my dad took me to get the cast put on from the local doctor, and he puts it on and he's like, Can I sign it? And I was like, No, why?

00:42:47.950 - 00:42:59.700

Why would you like sign sign my cast? Like, why would I have you signed my cast? And I didn't realize that was a thing they do here, you know. So if you have a cast, everybody signs your cast and like get well then they

00:42:59.700 - 00:43:07.140

put their name on there. And so I wouldn't let him sign my cast because I was like, No, like, you'll make you'll mess it up. It's nice and white. I like it that way.

00:43:07.930 - 00:43:16.870

And then when I went to school, of course, they told me, you know, my friends who had to make sure I knew everything about the U.S., the American culture. They told me “Oh, no, that's the thing you do”.

00:43:16.870 - 00:43:30.660

And then of course, you know, it's like covered with signatures. That was super interesting. You know, it was interesting, because we don't have, so our alphabet is different. And we don't have the

00:43:30.660 - 00:43:47.550

sound of the letter W in our language. So we pronounce everything is what the V would be like van. So like the word we like w e we were pronounced as a V. And for the longest time, I could not hear the

00:43:47.800 - 00:44:01.570

difference between We and V. So I would pronounce everything like it was a V. And I remember this girl Laurie who lived like two doors down from me, she would always like laugh so much.

00:44:01.810 - 00:44:15.010

And then she'd say no, I got to teach you how to say the W so you know she would like make her mouth in a certain way. So like we you know like that and I was like then I would try to practice it. But even I think when I started

00:44:15.010 - 00:44:31.310

saying it for the longest time I could not tell the difference between the sound of a W and a V. So there was this like a lot of experiences like that that were funny and you know, just interesting. And sports were a riot because I was no good at sports.

00:44:31.590 - 00:44:47.970

In India. We didn't have a lot of these you know like basketball and baseball like we just did exercises in the gym, you know, we went and we we did jumping jacks and we did running and things like that we didn't do organized sports.

00:44:49.010 - 00:45:06.050

So when I came here, you know, this is what they do during gym you know they play depending on the season, they'll play volleyball or basketball or you know, whatever Baseball. And I remember the first time that I was, you

00:45:06.150 - 00:45:18.110

know, going to play basketball. I didn't realize that you had to dribble the ball. So I just ran with the ball. I just hold I just held the ball and ran to the basket and shot the basket.

00:45:18.580 - 00:45:27.450

And there's like, whistles going on all around me and they're like, supposed to be dribbling. And don't you see other people dribbling? And I said, Yeah, I just figured they liked the dribbling part.

00:45:27.530 - 00:45:34.390

I don't like the dribbling part. So I'll just go run. So that was really funny. And of course, you feel very embarrassed, you know that you don't know how to

00:45:34.390 - 00:45:48.400

play it or anything. And then in like, softball, you know, basketball, I was kind of okay at. Volleyball, I was pretty good at dodgeball I was pretty good at, but I was horrible at

00:45:48.400 - 00:46:00.740

softball, I could never hit the ball. And so I would be like one of the last ones picked, you know, and it was super embarrassing. But so gym was was definitely an ordeal for me.

00:46:01.380 - 00:46:14.970

And then I would ask my dad, you know, if he could write me a note, so I could get out of like swimming, or something or softball, and he wouldn't. So my dad was a man of high ethics.

00:46:15.000 - 00:46:25.410

And he said, there's nothing wrong with you, you are not sick. So why should I write a note for you? So I would never get a note from my dad. And of course, you know, you no point asking my mom,

00:46:25.410 - 00:46:36.000

because my who might have written it, actually, but you know, of course, in this kind of thing, my dad would be like, Oh, no, no, no lying, no, nothing, you know. So I would go and I would sort of suffer

00:46:36.000 - 00:46:47.470

through Gym Class a lot of times, you know, and then they have these, you know, parent open houses that parents go and talk to teachers. So my parents loved going because, you know, they would say really nice

00:46:47.510 - 00:46:58.730

things about their daughter, and but then they would go to gym class, you know, and then they would all just sit around and laugh and say, Oh, yeah, you know, Poonam tries really hard. And, you know, so they

00:46:58.730 - 00:47:13.520

would give me like a B or something, you know, just for trying, but my parents would come back, and they'd be like, laughing about gym class, you know, that all the stuff that happened in gym. So it was interesting, I would say, you know, thinking back about it, of course, it

00:47:13.520 - 00:47:25.660

sounds very, you know, funny now, at the time, I'm sure I was sort of very mortified by gym class and what I had to put up with, and then we have to wear these, like, really short shorts, and I didn't wear

00:47:25.660 - 00:47:35.440

shorts back then, you know, we had skirts, but then they had, you know, knee high socks, so there wasn't anything other than your knee was not visible. So that was also something that was different.

00:47:36.410 - 00:47:53.390

Wow, that was super interesting. Thank you for taking me on that trip to your school back then. Thanks. I'm wondering, oh, you said your your father was working in the government of Delhi back then.

00:47:54.260 - 00:48:09.210

That what kind of job did he get in in the new place you live in the US. In the US? Yeah. So it was really, you know, very interesting. Most of the jobs at that time in India,

00:48:09.370 - 00:48:20.100

were government related jobs. So you work for the government of India and doing all sorts of things, you know, the railways, the roads. Everything was run by the government.

00:48:20.100 - 00:48:31.540

Now it's upright, there's a lot of more privatization. So he had a he had a really nice, secure job there. And he was sent by the government

00:48:31.540 - 00:48:44.980

of India to the Netherlands, to do a course for six months. And then during that time, my mom got her visa to come here. And you know, he definitely said yes, yes, yes, you got to go.

00:48:45.350 - 00:48:58.460

And so she basically locked her door door literally did not pack anything in the house, thinking that she's going to be back and left us with my aunt and and went very reluctantly.

00:48:59.980 - 00:49:11.250

And my dad who was in the, in the in Holland, she stopped there to see him. And then, you know, he kind of sent her forward and said, Don't worry, you know, all work out, just go see it, go see the US.

00:49:11.250 - 00:49:26.410

It's such a great country, just go see it. And so then after he got done in Holland, he joined her there. And you know, just to kind of see how Missy how she was set up, and then he was going to come back to Delhi to get back to his job.

00:49:27.390 - 00:49:44.990

And he, my uncle here who might my mom, you know, had been staying with relatives, distant, distant relatives, told told my dad, that as long as you're in the US, why don't you just apply for your green

00:49:44.990 - 00:49:57.260

card here? Because things will be much slower in India. So as long as you're here, it'll be done, you know, within a few weeks and then you are going back anyway. Well, you surrender your passport and you do that

00:49:57.720 - 00:50:10.310

and he that did not It took several months for that to happen. And he had signed a contract with the Government of India that he would come back and serve for three more years because they had spent the money to send him

00:50:10.720 - 00:50:22.000

to Holland. So he couldn't go back because he didn't have his passport. And so he could not travel anymore. And the Government of India is putting a lot of pressure on him, you either come back, or

00:50:22.000 - 00:50:38.010

you resign. So my dad had no choice but to resign a really very nice job, because he had no passport to travel any anymore. And he had to pay them, he had to pay them the bond that they had put up for him.

00:50:38.600 - 00:50:49.580

And so his friends in India said, just do it, you know, they're letting you pay the bond from the US, they could insist that you come back to India to do it, and you're stuck right now.

00:50:50.410 - 00:51:06.290

So my dad resigned that post, you know, very, I think he was very upset about that, because he had worked there, you know, his whole sort of professional life. And he had no other job here at the time. So he started looking for jobs.

00:51:06.290 - 00:51:20.870

And you know, he's a chemist, he was trained as a chemist and then he had trained further in tanning or the leather chemistry. So he did get a job with a brown shoe company and brown shoe company had a lot of tanneries across

00:51:20.890 - 00:51:33.150

the country. And the tanneries are where they work with the hides. And, and you know, sort of make the leather good enough to then have shoes made from it or coats or whatever leather jackets,

00:51:33.150 - 00:51:47.810

etc. So, he got a job as a he was the head of the the research and development at the at the tannery bear, so he was so that tannery happened to be in this really small town, west of or south of

00:51:47.810 - 00:51:59.720

south of Buffalo, New York, which is on the western tip of the New York State. And so that's where we, that's where we ended up. And then my mom, who had a master's degree in Hindi, you know,

00:51:59.990 - 00:52:09.400

not very marketable here. But she got a job at a, it was an electronics company was actually called gowanda electronics.

00:52:09.700 - 00:52:21.020

And she was put in like a quality control type of position, it was a nice position, you know, but nothing, nothing to do with what she had been educated for.

00:52:21.470 - 00:52:32.900

And you really, she had been basically a housewife in India, she taught at a university for a couple of years, but for the most part, she was a housewife. And so it was, it was quite a change for her to start working here.

00:52:33.160 - 00:52:47.100

But you know, then my parents needed to both work because they really had to set up their home all over again, you know, they didn't bring anything with them, except for some clothes. So all the stuff that they had the furniture that they had, and

00:52:47.100 - 00:52:56.920

the pots and pans and dishes, none of that stuff came. So, you know, I remember every week, you know, when they get paid, you know, we'd go and we had rented a furnished apartment.

00:52:57.910 - 00:53:10.720

So we had furniture and the having furniture in the house, but you know, as far as dishes, etc, we would like go by four spoons and four four you know, cups and cereal bowls, etc.

00:53:10.990 - 00:53:26.080

So it was, you know, it's like starting your your life all over again, after you've been married for like, 12 years already. So, so that was that was I'm sure a very difficult time, difficult time for them. But, you know, you get through it.

00:53:26.080 - 00:53:34.120

And they both worked. My dad in his own line of work, and my mom, you know, in a different line of work. But anyhow, it worked out.

00:53:34.330 - 00:53:46.170

It worked out. Okay, you know, they, they made enough that we never really, I mean, we were definitely middle class, you know, and growing up and but I don't ever remember, you know, my dad

00:53:46.230 - 00:53:55.780

saying no, you can't have that. I mean, part of it is I think as a kid, you know, subconsciously what your parents can afford. So you generally don't

00:53:55.780 - 00:54:04.030

tend to ask for things that you think there's going to be a no anyways, like, I never asked for a trip to Europe. I mean, I knew that was never going to happen. I didn't even ever cross my mind.

00:54:04.790 - 00:54:22.060

But whatever I asked for, like whatever my friends had. Never, never I don't ever remember my dad saying no. That was a great, it's a great childhood. And it's interesting to have kind of a forced immigration experience.

00:54:23.000 - 00:54:39.080

Yes, it's a, you know, it's a difficult experience. And I'm sure it was harder for my parents, right, because they're the ones who had to, they had no fallback option and my husband talks about this, you know that whoever is the first one to migrate, you're

00:54:39.080 - 00:54:49.460

not allowed to bring a lot of money up, you know, bags and bags of money with you. So you come with a small amount of money and then you have to make it because you don't have any fallback options.

00:54:50.150 - 00:55:05.010

You don't have your parents there who are going to support you if you don't have a job. So I know that you know, my dad and my mom and saving was a very big deal, you know, took like try to live frugally and to save

00:55:05.040 - 00:55:18.840

because they knew the kids had to go to college. And same thing, you know that when he came, he, he knew he had to save. And he knew that he had to make it because, you know, he didn't have siblings here.

00:55:18.840 - 00:55:30.770

He didn't have his parents, he didn't have any relatives. So there's a lot of pressure on anybody who immigrates to a different country. You know, it's a different country, it's a different culture. And you know, you're kind of on your own.

00:55:31.400 - 00:55:47.370

So you have to make it. Yeah, that's a very encouraging story of first generations. And next, I'm wondering, what are the demographics like of Gwanda, New York

00:55:48.600 - 00:56:05.000

Gwanda, New York is probably 99% Caucasian. Maybe it's a little less now maybe it's 95%. But interestingly, you know, they also have, so Gwanda to itself,

00:56:05.000 - 00:56:16.220

I would say is predominantly white. But they do have a Seneca, American Indian Native American reservation nearby. So there is definitely a small

00:56:16.220 - 00:56:29.990

population of Native Americans living by nearby, which created a lot of confusion for me in high school, or in school in general when I came in middle school, because they do have slightly darker skin, and they

00:56:29.990 - 00:56:38.770

have black hair. And they're called American Indians. And I call myself an Indian. So there was a lot of confusion like, Am I part of them?

00:56:38.880 - 00:56:49.460

Like, am I part of their tribe or something? And, you know, of course, a lot of my white friends thought I was probably some kind of a descendent of them.

00:56:50.100 - 00:56:58.050

But then they are a very proud nation, you know, the Seneca nation, very proud nation. And they're like, Oh, no, we have nothing to do with her.

00:56:58.050 - 00:57:08.720

Like, she's not a part of us. You know, she's from another country. So you can't like lump her with us. So, but the majority of the people in the school, of course, we're white, we did have

00:57:09.030 - 00:57:21.580

the American Indian kids did not have their own school on their reservation. So they also came to our school. So maybe there were, you know, a small, maybe 5% was American Indians, but there were no

00:57:21.580 - 00:57:36.700

other there were no blacks, there were no Hispanics. I don't even remember other Asian families there. Although I think in my brother's class, there was an Asian American girl whose parents were actually

00:57:36.700 - 00:57:45.390

Chinese. They, they were both physicians. So I think that's about it. So it was it was very demographically homogeneous white.

00:57:47.340 - 00:58:01.320

Yeah, that was so interesting. And you describe your first kind of as different people color in your school as well, like, and people were like, also helping you and at the same time, make a little bit like

00:58:01.370 - 00:58:17.270

teasing you a little bit for the difference. Was there any point or point in time that you remember that you were like, kind of negatively kind of picked on for that kind of difference in culture traits? No, you know, for the I was, I, you

00:58:17.270 - 00:58:36.430

know, I think based on what we see today, in the American society, it was not at all like that, you know, it was very welcoming. And I remember like, the, my brother's kindergarten teacher, was the wife of the School of

00:58:36.460 - 00:58:52.170

superintendent, the superintendent of schools. So she, they were just amazing people, you know, they used to invite us for Thanksgiving, and very welcoming, very welcoming society that they had

00:58:52.210 - 00:59:06.620

there. You know, and, and I, you know, I, when I was three years old, I got Bell's palsy, which became sort of a permanent thing, I never really recovered fully from that. And, you know, in India, I think it's ignorance, you know,

00:59:06.620 - 00:59:20.410

but kids would definitely, you know, tease me like, crooked mouth and this and that, but I was amazed that in this country, none of the kids did that, like Not a single kid ever said anything to me about that.

00:59:20.830 - 00:59:35.890

And I was extremely grateful for that. And more than that, I think it was probably the lack of my sports abilities that maybe I got teased on. But you know, they just sort of I mean, I got I got voted them the most

00:59:35.890 - 00:59:50.790

studious girl in my class and the senior year you know, they had all these like different things that they would vote on and, and and like best dressed and this and that and, and myself and this boy nerd, I would say we were voted the most,

00:59:51.770 - 01:00:02.900

most studious boy and girl so I think they probably forgave me for my lack of sports skills, because I was you know, I was doing okay in my studies. But yeah, other than that I never got I never got any any

01:00:02.900 - 01:00:16.480

negative sense from any of them. In fact, I think the American Indians, were kind of like, you know, a little aloof of me because they were excellent at sports. Excellent. And I was like, just as bad as they were

01:00:16.480 - 01:00:28.620

good. And then, you know, I was trying, because people were trying to lump me in with them, they just didn't really want to make sure that they people knew that she's not one of us, because she's so bad at sports, you know, there's no way she could be one of us.

01:00:29.510 - 01:00:41.850

But other than that, no, it was it was a really welcoming place. It's wonderful to hear and especially like a time if that's we are kind of trying to overcome difficulties

01:00:41.850 - 01:00:58.320

and unite. I'm also wondering, with, I guess, later on, how did the kind of dating culture that you started to experience in your high school mix, like, kind of

01:00:58.480 - 01:01:12.960

influence your later life decision to go into an arranged marriage? Yeah, that's interesting. And, you know, so in high school, clearly, I did not date in fact, I sort of was of the same belief, right?

01:01:12.960 - 01:01:26.610

That Yes, this is dating is not correct. But when I went to college, you know, there's no more parents, no more Indian culture that you're living in. You're around, it's a much more

01:01:26.610 - 01:01:41.760

diverse audience, a much more diverse student culture, because you don't just have Caucasians, which is what I saw all around me. But you have, you know, kids, Asian kids and other Indian

01:01:41.880 - 01:01:53.330

kids, and, you know, African Americans and Hispanics. And so it was, it was quite a quite a diverse culture, which was, which was great, because you felt like you fit in really well.

01:01:55.340 - 01:02:07.430

And I, you know, dating, of course, on college campus is notorious. So it was, it was like that at Cornell as well. And, you know, I went, I started going

01:02:07.430 - 01:02:22.710

to parties, I, you know, I did go out with my friends on Friday nights, you know, going, it was a really small Ithica was a really small town, where Cornell is, so there's really not a whole lot to do. But as soon

01:02:22.710 - 01:02:35.350

as you walk outside of the campus gates, there's college town, right, like any other college towns, and there's lots of bars and pizza places. And, you know, so we would, you know, so there was the Friday

01:02:35.350 - 01:02:48.310

night, after classes were done, everybody was sort of let loose, and either go to a party or go to a bar and have pizza, excellent pizza, I think all college towns have excellent pizza. But I would go, I would go

01:02:48.310 - 01:03:00.970

with my friends. And I had never had a drink before that, of course, legally was not allowed to drink at that age. But I did have a beer, you know, with my friends. And, you know, I think my parents knew, and

01:03:00.970 - 01:03:12.650

they were kind of okay with it, you know, it's like, don't get drunk and, you know, end up somewhere. But other than that, I did try alcohol, and parties, and there were, you know, guys interested.

01:03:13.120 - 01:03:25.410

And I, let's just say I thought about it more, you know, like, I thought it was not taboo to date. But I was very open with my, with my parents.

01:03:26.080 - 01:03:37.760

And so I think they, you know, my parents have always been very inviting, as far as like, nobody's gonna say anything to you. Nobody's going to yell at you.

01:03:37.760 - 01:03:50.190

If you tell us something that we don't like, you know, we will talk it through. So I did, I think I did tell them and I'm sure I was tempted, you know, there were guys that I liked as

01:03:50.190 - 01:04:04.550

well. But I think there was always a sort of voice in the back of my mind that, you know, if you date, you're considered immoral, or a loose person, in our culture, not in the American culture, but in our

01:04:04.550 - 01:04:22.420

culture. So if I and my dad reminded me, you know, that if you want to marry an Indian guy, and you know, there weren't a lot of Indian guys my age, because a lot, because, you know, a lot of the Indian people who came here had kids after they came here, but I was already

01:04:22.480 - 01:04:35.390

close to 12 when we came, so I was there weren't a lot of people that were my age that were Indian. So most of the Indian people that I met, were people coming as grad students to study.

01:04:37.190 - 01:04:50.660

So my dad said, you know, if you want to marry someone who's coming from India, you know, I'm just here, but he's originally from India. They're not gonna like the fact that you've been dating a lot, right?

01:04:51.080 - 01:05:04.190

So I think, you know, that was always in the back of my mind, and I had thought about the type of person I want to marry. And I wanted to marry someone who was Indian Because I, I wanted to maintain

01:05:04.720 - 01:05:19.660

my culture. And I also wanted to marry somebody who was from India, because I wanted to have a connection to India, because I knew after my grandparents passed away, that my parents' connection would become less.

01:05:20.330 - 01:05:35.280

And you know, with cousins, it's not the same thing because my sibling is here, my immediate family was here. So if my husband's immediate family was also in the US, we would probably lose our connection with India. And it was important for me to maintain that.

01:05:36.240 - 01:05:54.090

So I made a conscious decision to not date, and to wait until I was ready to have an arranged marriage. It didn't have to be arranged, if I had met an Indian, young man, you know, who I thought would be fine to marry.

01:05:54.970 - 01:06:07.400

My parents had no objection to that my parents actually had no objection to my marrying an American either. But they had an objection to and my father especially had an objection to his grandchildren not being confused

01:06:07.400 - 01:06:19.670

between two cultures. So he said that, you know, if you choose to marry an American person, then you consciously made that choice, and you got to know that person and the both of you like one another, and that's fine, you

01:06:19.670 - 01:06:28.740

will be fine. But what happens when your children come? And what culture do you follow at that time? Because they're such different cultures?

01:06:28.740 - 01:06:38.690

You know, there's not a whole lot of things that come together, Which one will you follow? Which one will they believe in? And will that confuse them? And will they, if you if they

01:06:38.690 - 01:06:53.270

have to choose between father and mother, will that feel like they're being disloyal to one parent, so he was pretty convinced that he did not want his grandchildren to have to go through that. So I knew what my parents wanted.

01:06:53.350 - 01:07:06.660

My parents wanted me to marry an Indian man. And so you know, I thought about it. And it just sort of made a lot of sense to me that this would be the most practical way to maintain our

01:07:06.660 - 01:07:26.080

culture, and to make sure that the next generation was not confused. Yeah, that's a really interesting perspective, and also the trust between you and your parents and make decisions together. That's really, Yeah, you know, in fact, I had, and it is unfortunate, but I had

01:07:26.120 - 01:07:36.790

friends whose parents were super strict. So my parents never stopped me from doing something, they would just kind of show me the pros and cons of it, right.

01:07:38.880 - 01:07:53.200

So but I had friends who like their parents, especially their dads work, like you can't do this, you can't do that you can't date nothing. So I had friends, unfortunately, who didn't tell their parents,

01:07:53.200 - 01:08:06.930

right? That they were dating, whether they were Indian, or non Indians. So there was, you know, I had friends who really had issues with their parents, because, you know, their parents didn't know that they were doing this.

01:08:06.930 - 01:08:22.140

And then they were trying to arrange their marriage, and then come to find out that they have another boyfriend or girlfriend, and it created a lot of problems. So I appreciated the fact that my parents were open, and also that they didn't force

01:08:22.760 - 01:08:32.680

me to do anything. They just sort of trusted me to make the right decision after they showed me what the what the pros and cons of my decisions.

01:08:34.790 - 01:08:50.660

Yeah, that feels like a really, you know, great education, the kind of example you probably have benefit from and then kind of carry on with your own choice. Right, I think at least I hope I don't think there's anything that my kids

01:08:51.840 - 01:09:04.210

have done that I don't know about, or that they feel that they can't come to me about. You know, sure you think you might disappoint your parents about something, but it's like you can you'll get through it, you know,

01:09:04.280 - 01:09:15.700

so yeah, hopefully, hopefully that's that's true. I think it is on my side. Yeah, thank you and make some wondering, you brought up that

01:09:16.150 - 01:09:30.270

the condition Bell's Palsy that you struggle with since year three. And how did that kind of battle with this condition like mentally and physically and kind of impact you as a person?

01:09:31.540 - 01:09:45.740

I think you've probably, excuse me, I think it's probably impacted me quite a bit. Because you know, it's on your face. And you can hide different things of your body, right? Like if you have a scar on your

01:09:45.810 - 01:10:01.470

back or your legs or something, you know, you they they can be hidden, but you can't hide your face. So it's something that you constantly are aware of, and of course, you don't see yourself all the time, right?

01:10:01.470 - 01:10:13.550

You just see yourself through other people's eyes because other people's eyes look at you. And that's the first thing they see, when they see they meet you, you smile, whatever, you know, so they see it right away.

01:10:14.140 - 01:10:28.270

And I can tell by the look on the other person's face, if they've seen it, right. And I immediately react to that, I think, because I think I sort of probably close up a little bit,

01:10:29.130 - 01:10:43.110

you know, and I maybe don't smile as much, or like, I'll put my hand over my mouth, whatever it's been, I think, as a child, it was probably difficult, as I told you, there was a lot of teasing.

01:10:44.430 - 01:11:05.100

And I'm sure it made me sort of self conscious about it. And I remember my dad telling me that one of the doctors that he had consulted about me, had said, you know, that, physically, you know, there's exercises and

01:11:05.100 - 01:11:16.790

all that, that I've, you know, used to do a lot that, you know, you can, we've pretty much done everything we can for her, as far as physical. So this is going to be there for the rest of her life.

01:11:18.290 - 01:11:32.660

But what you have to be really careful about is how she matures emotionally, because this can lead, you know, a big scar on her emotionally and she can really just shut down completely.

01:11:33.300 - 01:11:50.080

So I think my, my dad more so than my mom was really keenly aware of this, and wanted to make sure that that I kind of knew how to deal with it, and how to accept it.

01:11:51.010 - 01:12:02.680

And so we went through, I went through so many different treatments when I was a child, like somewhere just somewhere, of course, you know, legitimate doctors, neurologists, therapists, physical therapists, etc. But

01:12:02.680 - 01:12:14.680

then some were just quacks basically, no, but even though my dad is a highly educated man, you know, your, if your child is not well, you reach for anything. And so, you know, there was like, one, I remember,

01:12:15.150 - 01:12:29.560

somebody mailed him some kind of a, I don't know, like, you know, these facial masks that women put on sometimes to cleanse their faces. So it was like some kind of, I don't know, like a mud pack type thing I

01:12:29.650 - 01:12:47.390

they put on my, on my face, you know, saying that, oh, this will improve it. I used to wear this, it was like a plastic. I don't know. It was just like a like a, it was molded It was a piece of plastic that was molded to

01:12:47.390 - 01:12:58.540

the my face. So one part would go like in my mouth. And it was like a hook. And then the other part, it would go across my face, and it would hook on to my

01:12:59.130 - 01:13:12.660

behind my ear. And it was trying to like pull that muscle, you know, back to where it should be. So basically, what happened was that once the nerve dies, the message from the brain doesn't come to the muscle.

01:13:12.660 - 01:13:22.180

So like if you want to laugh, you know, your muscle will pull back, right, and you laugh. So in that case, the muscle won't pull back because it's not getting the signal because the nerve is dead.

01:13:23.080 - 01:13:34.700

And because nerve cells don't regenerate, there was no hope of doing anything there. So I think putting that little clip was trying to get the muscle to like, maybe get used to doing some of that.

01:13:35.750 - 01:13:51.490

But I mean, I didn't wear it to school, but I would wear it every time that I was at home. So that was also something you know that that I'm sure bothered me at the time. I think it's probably always bothered me, to some extent, probably still does.

01:13:51.970 - 01:14:06.840

And I remember like in India, I think I think I honestly think I was the main reason my parents migrated to this country, I think that was my dad was adamant to get me out of India. Because in India, your

01:14:06.900 - 01:14:21.030

looks especially for a girl are really, really important. So when you want to get your child married, and you know, it's interesting that a lot of people do get married, even the ones that have, you know, some defect,

01:14:21.750 - 01:14:34.350

but you know, you make you have to make compromises then. And, you know, my dad wanted to make sure that he got me out of there because he knew that it would be very hard for me life would be very hard for me there.

01:14:35.070 - 01:14:49.160

And, you know, in fact, even and it's gotten better, but even you know when when they're looking for a suitable match. People don't like if the other person wears glasses, they think that's a defect.

01:14:50.150 - 01:15:03.930

So a girl that's wearing glasses is not ranked as highly as a girl who's not wearing glasses. So I mean, that's just glasses and that's fairly normal a lot of people wear glasses. But something like this, I mean

01:15:03.930 - 01:15:18.850

Bell's Palsy is, I don't think it's uncommon that it occurs, but it's generally a very short lived viral illness, and you recover from it. So you know, your face may droop for a little while for a few days.

01:15:19.250 - 01:15:34.260

It's not not it's not as common as like chickenpox, or measles or something. But it's something that can happen and does happen. But it's you recover from it, most people recover from it. And I think because I was so

01:15:34.260 - 01:15:48.790

young, and I had just had, I just gone through an illness before that time. So my immune system was probably depressed and was, you know, young child is probably not as robust as a young person, a young

01:15:48.850 - 01:16:00.820

adult, and my grandmother had it. So I got it from my grandmother, who recovered fully. So my grandmother didn't have the residual effects of it. But I got it from her.

01:16:00.820 - 01:16:14.710

And I think because my immunity, overall immunity was low. Instead of causing a temporary damage, it caused a permanent damage to my nerve. And you know, at that time, I happen to be visiting my

01:16:14.750 - 01:16:31.260

grandmother, in that small town of Malakpur, where there were no doctors nearby, and so that my dad had to take me to the nearest city, which was probably few hours away, to be seen by a doctor.

01:16:31.260 - 01:16:47.520

So I'm sure that that time period, also didn't help. Because if you can give an antiviral quickly enough, then you know, there's a better hope that you would recover from it. You know, so part of my job is to teach students, and

01:16:49.100 - 01:17:03.620

so when I talk, you can see it, so I can see it in my students eyes. Also, you know, when when they notice it, don't say anything, right? People are respectful that they don't say anything, but you know, they'll smile

01:17:03.620 - 01:17:19.630

in a certain way. Or maybe I'm just overly sensitive also. But I can tell and it does, I think I do sort of, you know, maybe shut down a little bit, if that happens. So it continues, you know, and, but oh, well, it is what

01:17:19.630 - 01:17:33.810

it is. Well, thank you for sharing that very open heartedly. And we're very encouraged by what you are, like handling and like, turning out to be in such a strong woman too, I

01:17:33.810 - 01:17:47.730

guess, moving on to your career, like, what has been some of the most memorable moments in your career, both in teaching and as a practitioner and a microbiologist?

01:17:49.320 - 01:18:05.190

Yeah, so you know, I started out when I was in graduate school in the US, when did I like in the 80s, in the mid 80s. What we were taught, and it wasn't something that you know, somebody would would say

01:18:05.190 - 01:18:19.170

to you, but it was sort of understood that if you are good at what you did, then you would become a researcher. And, you know, you would get funding from the NIH and NSF and you would have a lab in a,

01:18:20.010 - 01:18:34.210

in a nice, you know, in a well established university, you know, you'd be like an r1, campus, like Rice's. And if you are not necessarily that good, then the next tier down would be to become a teacher.

01:18:34.890 - 01:18:49.840

And so none of us, of course, wanted to teach because, you know, that's, that was not as good. And then, if you So scientists feel like you know, they, they do science, for the love of science to sort of advanced society, and

01:18:49.840 - 01:19:01.990

not for the money. So if you go to work for a biotech company, that is also looked upon negatively, because that means that you're doing science for to make more money. And so none of us wanted to go to

01:19:01.990 - 01:19:16.190

a biotech company, and none of us wanted to teach, we all wanted to do basic research. Basic research is tough, it's really tough not just to do the research, but to get the funding, because you have to get your own funding in order to get your own lab setup.

01:19:19.120 - 01:19:32.190

And the funding is difficult, because there's not enough of it. And the majority of the funding comes from the government. And the government is, you know, doesn't put that much money into it.

01:19:32.190 - 01:19:42.260

And depending on which administration you're in, there may be more or less support. So, you know, so we all wanted to do that. And I did that for a little while.

01:19:42.870 - 01:19:57.240

And I did you know, we did postdoctoral fellowships after a PhD and I did that. But then I was already married. And you know, my husband didn't think like being in academia all the time was necessarily be the be all end

01:19:57.470 - 01:20:13.040

all. He's more on the practical side. So I started working for a biotech company and in California, that's a great thing to do, right, because that's where Silicon Valley is, and there's a lot of opportunity. So I worked in biotech, you know, financially,

01:20:13.040 - 01:20:23.540

it was a really good job. And but it was, it took up a lot of time. But you know, it was just the two of us. And then we moved to Houston.

01:20:24.540 - 01:20:35.810

And I decided, and you know, then actually, we had our child, and I still was working in a biotech company. And I felt like I couldn't spend enough time with him.

01:20:35.810 - 01:20:47.760

So I wanted to leave industry. And then we decided to move to Houston. And I did another postdoc, because I was not getting a job in immunology.

01:20:47.760 - 01:21:02.090

So I decided that I would do something in molecular biology, which was sort of the hot field at that time. And I did that. And then I had my second child while I was while I was doing that postdoc. And, you know, my husband

01:21:02.090 - 01:21:16.130

traveled a lot for his job. So I decided that it was too much like, I could not raise my kids and have a job where I was at work till seven, eight o'clock at night, and my husband was traveling, and

01:21:16.130 - 01:21:28.690

my kids were either with a babysitter or at some kind of school. I was not that was not okay with me. So I decided, you know, somebody, somebody, I used to belong to this organization called American women in

01:21:28.690 - 01:21:40.580

science, and somebody gave a talk on alternate careers for women. And she was a professor at the University of Houston downtown in microbiology.

01:21:41.000 - 01:21:49.240

And she talked about that. And so I thought that was really cool. So I sent her a message saying, you know, hey, I want to try something like this, but I had never taught before

01:21:49.240 - 01:22:02.580

I didn’t have experience in teaching. So she said, okay, you know, I teach all these courses, and I would like to give you a chance to teach something in the

01:22:02.580 - 01:22:16.650

evenings. And so, you know, my husband traveled a lot, I had little kids, that means I had to get a babysitter in the evening. But I did it, you know, I did it. And I, I didn't, I did some, some teaching with her, just to

01:22:16.650 - 01:22:27.840

get the experience. And then a job opened up there. And I decided, Okay, that would be something that I would, that I would go for, because it would be better hours, and I could take care of my kids better.

01:22:28.500 - 01:22:43.160

So I, you know, I loved research, I still love research because you learn something that's new in research. And that's, that's a, that's a real high, you know, to have an experiment where you come up with something that nobody has ever done

01:22:43.160 - 01:22:56.270

before. And you can contribute to the world of science. But teaching, teaching has been an amazing journey, because I realized that at the end of the day, my

01:22:57.140 - 01:23:09.520

favorite thing in life to do is to guide young people. And teaching gives you that opportunity. It gives you a lot of young people who need support. And it's not just in teaching them microbiology.

01:23:10.550 - 01:23:23.760

So I decided at some point, I don't know how it happened. But I just started taking my students on all these things outside of the class. So we would go collect samples at the bayou and test

01:23:23.760 - 01:23:35.270

what the bayou was all about, you know, or we would go to an elementary school and teach those kids microbiology. And so I started doing these other things, and really connecting with the students.

01:23:35.830 - 01:23:50.590

And, you know, I just fell in love with that. So I, you know, we had a club called the Leeuwenhoek society. So Leeuwenhoek is the guy who started the microscope. And so if this society was named after him, and we did a

01:23:50.590 - 01:24:04.190

lot of stuff, it was, you know, a very robust club, and I love doing it, I love to take my students to conferences, and they would present their their research. And so I just, you know, thought that that was the coolest

01:24:04.190 - 01:24:17.430

thing that I had discovered that that's what I was all about. And then, you know, I did that for about 20 years and taught lots of students and had lots of students doing research with me, I still maintain a small

01:24:17.430 - 01:24:30.790

research lab. And, and the goal, the goals of the research are a little different now. So the goal of the research is not to promote myself, to get more grants and to publish more papers, but it's to train my students.

01:24:31.130 - 01:24:44.980

So I want to train my students in– at the undergraduate level so that they can go on to graduate school or they can go on to internships and feel confident about going to the Medical Center, let's say or to going to Rice or something.

01:24:45.730 - 01:24:59.580

So, but five years ago, our then President Floras that, you know, also believed a lot and doing stuff outside the classroom, and he was very engaged in communities so he wanted to start the

01:24:59.580 - 01:25:09.120

Center of Community Engagement. And I applied for that job. And I got that. So I direct the Center for Community Engagement and service learning at University of Houston downtown.

01:25:10.370 - 01:25:26.170

I kind of left the teaching part, the microbiology; I still maintain my research lab, but I don't teach microbiology these days. And I do full time working with faculty to have to show them how to do what we call service

01:25:26.170 - 01:25:40.130

learning, which is in— which is very classroom based. Because you've taken whatever topic you're dealing with. So let's say it's a finance class, then your students can go out into the community that doesn't know anything about financial planning.

01:25:40.180 - 01:25:51.530

And you can work with those those people. I mean, I had a student who went and taught women on savings, how do you save money? How do you put money in

01:25:51.530 - 01:26:04.790

bank, these women did not have never had a bank account in their entire life. And the end of that end goal of that project was for each woman to save 50 bucks, and start a bank account. And they all did.

01:26:05.410 - 01:26:20.610

And so you know, really, it's sort of making a difference like that. And so I that's what I feel like, is my calling, it's to work with young people, and to work with young people in, in

01:26:20.700 - 01:26:33.990

advancing their hopes and careers, but in a way that connects them to the community. So you know, I tell my students all the time, I said, No one is going to hire you to recite the periodic

01:26:34.010 - 01:26:39.830

table, you know, you may know it backwards and forwards. But nobody cares. When somebody gives you a job.

01:26:40.090 - 01:26:53.730

They know that you know, the periodic table. And they know that you know these concepts, they hire you to solve problems, whatever, wherever you go, they're going to hire you to solve problems. So the more problem solving you do, when you're in college, the better off you're

01:26:53.730 - 01:27:06.380

going to be when you get hired, and the more marketable you will be. So you know, everything that I do now has to do with how can you apply what you're learning in the classroom, to what's going on around you, whether it's to

01:27:06.420 - 01:27:21.730

understand immigration, or to understand, you know, voter rights, or to understand, you know, school systems and inequities in education? Or, you know, why don't we have more minorities in the STEM fields?

01:27:22.550 - 01:27:35.970

And what can you do to improve those numbers? And so that's, that's basically what I do now. And I think, you know, it's a, it's a, it's actually very necessary for

01:27:35.970 - 01:27:47.740

all universities to play that role. I know, Rice does that as well, to engage communities that are around you. I mean, you are in the university, your wealth of knowledge, you have

01:27:47.740 - 01:28:05.060

all these people trained, you know, PhDs trained in their respective fields who know so much, and they can help communities by helping them to understand what's going on around them, you know, we have projects and civic engagement that teach people how do

01:28:05.060 - 01:28:18.540

you go lobby for yourself? You know, there, I was amazed, you know, in this one community, we went to, there's ditches that are open, right? So therefore, drainage, but cars get stuck in it,

01:28:19.420 - 01:28:33.700

you know, so they're right at the edge of like, the school where they're dropping off their kid. And so their car gets stuck, or their kid jumps out of the car, and like goes into that. And they are scared to say anything to anybody.

01:28:33.900 - 01:28:45.750

Right? So we teach them, you know, how can you go to your, your city representative? Who is your city representative, you know, and how can you tell them, you know, hey, this is a problem, you need to put some grates on top.

01:28:45.750 - 01:28:58.090

So you know, our cards don't get get get in there. So there's a lot of problems in communities. So you want to train students to understand the problems like how

01:28:58.090 - 01:29:04.880

do you What does it mean? Like what is how do you understand the problem? How do you listen to the community? So you know, we as

01:29:05.150 - 01:29:17.940

academicians, feel ourselves to be sort of intellectual elites. And you don't want to take that kind of attitude, right, that I know more than you. And I know what I can, I can solve your problems, you first

01:29:17.940 - 01:29:28.730

need to listen to them to understand what is their problem, you know, you might want to solve something that they don't care about. So you want to listen to what it is that they need solved. And so I think to train

01:29:28.730 - 01:29:41.950

students to do things like that, is something that I'm really passionate about. I've had enormous number of students who have become much more engaged in the

01:29:42.050 - 01:29:55.850

community. They're happy, you know, to have done that. And I think that they also understand the content of their courses better because they learn how to apply that knowledge to understand something.

01:29:56.490 - 01:30:07.490

So it's been a great ride. I really, really enjoyed it a lot. That's wonderful to hear. And I'm also amazed by like how much contributions and how like

01:30:07.800 - 01:30:23.910

thoughtful and like passionate you are for the younger people in the society. I'm wondering, you also touched on it a little bit to have more representation of women of color in the in these roles.

01:30:23.940 - 01:30:41.610

Like, I'm wondering if at any point in your career, have you felt a glass ceiling of as women of color? I think so. Yeah, I think so. I think that technically

01:30:43.360 - 01:30:56.780

in a position that is very knowledge based. Not so much, right? Because I think that we have a lot of knowledge to contribute. But when it comes to more, I

01:30:56.780 - 01:31:12.650

guess another five minutes. Okay. But as far as managerial kind of positions, I do feel that. I don't know if it's women, maybe it's partly women, and it's partly a woman

01:31:12.650 - 01:31:26.740

of color, that I do feel that maybe I didn't I have applied for some of those positions and not gotten some of them. And, you know, maybe the other

01:31:26.740 - 01:31:41.440

people were much better than me, I don't know. But it just seems like that maybe it was because of the color of my skin, because definitely, I could have done the job and done it really well.

01:31:42.010 - 01:31:54.830

And I also think that maybe we do bring more to the table hoping to get that position, right. So we make our resumes

01:31:55.430 - 01:32:07.440

much, much stronger. And you know, we practice a lot for our interviews. So we bring so much to the table hoping that it will compensate for any- anything that,

01:32:07.890 - 01:32:20.080

that somebody might perceive as lacking. But yeah, I mean, there are times when I felt that I didn't get a position that I originally deserved. And it was, might have been the color of my skin might have contributed to that.

01:32:21.410 - 01:32:33.840

And I think it's usually administrative roles and managerial roles, you know, because I think because we do such good work, that we are great as workers, right? Because that's, you know, you need to move, you need to advance

01:32:33.840 - 01:32:46.060

something forward. And Asians in general have been very good at that, you know, very motivated to get highly educated, very motivated by hard work. And they, they contribute a lot.

01:32:46.580 - 01:33:03.660

But when it comes to administrative positions and managerial positions, I think that the Caucasian, the Caucasian culture is still very hesitant to let relinquish those positions. Thank you for openly sharing that.

01:33:03.700 - 01:33:20.050

And I also wonder, since you're kind of this non conventional figure of women in kind of traditional Indian culture is very strong in like, very independent, like, what was that transition from girlhood to womanhood for you?

01:33:21.000 - 01:33:36.220

Like, what kind of defining moments that make you, Yeah, like, who you are today? You it's very interesting question. And because I never, I told you, my parents were always very

01:33:36.460 - 01:33:53.060

encouraging. And I think, you know, as a, as a girl or a daughter, you really look to your father for approval. And, you know, first of all, my mom was accomplished, she had a master's degree. And she had told me how she had sort of fought to do that.

01:33:53.060 - 01:34:04.920

And I knew I didn't have to fight because my dad wanted me to do all that. But I never felt from my parents that there was anything that I couldn't do, or that I shouldn't try for.

01:34:05.560 - 01:34:23.360

So first of all, I think that made any transitions or there really wasn't a transition. It was only when I stepped into the world of, you know, predominantly and more so when I stepped into that, or

01:34:23.360 - 01:34:37.490

when I wanted to step into that world in the administrative roles, that I really, for the first time felt that yes, there is a difference. And, you know, you know, maybe I need to do some things to transition

01:34:37.730 - 01:34:56.140

and become more independent, and more assertive. So I think I, you know, even though I think I'm a very independent woman, but I feel like I still work more quietly. I'm not the type of person who was sort of in

01:34:56.380 - 01:35:06.490

your face all the time. Like I deserve this. I should get You know, things like that. And maybe those are the people who do get it, you know, who are a lot more assertive

01:35:06.540 - 01:35:20.810

than me. I do see Indian women, I mean, the head of U of H for heaven's sakes, the chancellor, random couture, he's, you know, she's an assertive woman, she is where she is based on, you know, what, she's what she's done. And, you know, I'm very

01:35:20.810 - 01:35:37.160

proud of her to see her and her accomplishment, but you know, I'm not her, I can't, I can't be like her. I, you know, she is I've seen her, I've seen her, I've talked to her, I've heard her story. But I do think that, you know, it's, it

01:35:37.460 - 01:35:50.700

takes a certain type of set of traits to do that. And I, although I feel like I have the capability, and I have the background, I don't necessarily have all the traits of assertiveness,

01:35:51.100 - 01:36:06.220

that would guarantee me a ladder, that would take me all the way to the top. But, you know, I do strongly believe in continuing to plug into it, and doing your best and hope that you know, people notice, and that

01:36:06.320 - 01:36:20.370

they reward you for that, you know, I think even getting this job, it was the president of at that time, the president knew me, and he knew what kind of work I did. And he, you know, he was one of the ones who

01:36:20.370 - 01:36:34.240

recommended for me to get the job. And I think a lot of it, you have to sort of hope that you meet people like that kind of like my undergraduate advisor, you know, that very, very encouraging. So, there probably hasn't been a lot of

01:36:34.470 - 01:36:48.220

transitioning from when I was younger, to when I came into adulthood, because there was never like, I was never told that, you know, women do this. And boys do that. And, you know, my dad was very much into my being into the hard sciences and math

01:36:48.550 - 01:37:06.960

and everything. So, so that didn't, that was not there. It's really encouraging. And also, I guess, for our RJCE, the racial justice and civic engagement collection, we just want to ask you about some thoughts about

01:37:07.230 - 01:37:18.720

election results. And Kamala Harris being the first VP and women of color in the White House, and maybe sharing your thoughts about that. Thank you. Sure.

01:37:18.900 - 01:37:34.160

So yes, I am very pleased with the election results. For many reasons, you know, I think I have, I'm a Democrat, but I have nothing against somebody who's a republican, I think, you know, ideas being

01:37:34.160 - 01:37:47.760

shared and is healthy, you know, one should have healthy debates, debates, and I have nothing against other people's ideas at all, is just not necessarily what I believe in. And, and that's fine.

01:37:48.110 - 01:38:01.810

But I think our country has gone way beyond that. And it became, it became a very toxic culture, you know, where people started being against other people. And that's not that's not what you want, you want, you want to

01:38:02.030 - 01:38:17.230

debate ideas, you don't want to put other people down. So I think for those reasons, I'm glad that Joe Biden has been elected president, I think that he's a person who is who you know, who believes in people,

01:38:17.710 - 01:38:29.680

and then it doesn't matter what your, what your beliefs are, that you know, you're a person and you should be treated with dignity. And hopefully, you know, he will do that, for whatever somebody's beliefs are,

01:38:29.790 - 01:38:44.090

you know, and if you are republican or democrat or independent, or whatever your beliefs are. And so I think that he will be healing for the country. So I'm happy about that. And, of course, I'm very excited that we have finally have a

01:38:44.090 - 01:38:53.150

woman. You know, we've had some women who've been, who ran. I mean, Hillary Clinton, of course, ran for president. And then we had Geraldine

01:38:53.150 - 01:39:07.540

Ferraro, I remember that really well, I was, I was old enough to remember that really well. It was very exciting at that time to think that a woman would be in in the White House as a vice president. But finally, we do have somebody, in fact, you know, I've thought about it many times

01:39:07.540 - 01:39:21.300

that in a country as advanced as the United States, I'm actually quite surprised that we don't have a woman that we have not had a woman president. I mean, in India, we've had Prime Minister Gandhi, in

01:39:21.300 - 01:39:33.650

Israel, you know, Golda Mier, and many, many countries, you know, in Central America, South America, all over the world. I mean, we have the German Chancellor, there's so many women in power, and I don't understand why in this

01:39:33.720 - 01:39:46.600

country, it has been so difficult for a woman to enter the White House so far, but it's groundbreaking that she has. And of course, you know, being a woman from the Indian culture, I'm very proud of the fact that

01:39:46.600 - 01:39:59.800

she is half Indian. And you know, and of course, her first name is Indian as well. And so that's kind of nice. And, you know, I guess it's a it's a great sense of pride and hope.

01:40:00.130 - 01:40:11.300

But it's something that continues to happen, you know that it's not something that's just a one off. And it's you know, but that is something that will continue continue to happen.

01:40:11.620 - 01:40:25.300

It's very encouraging that there are so many more women, governors and mayors and, you know, in Congress. So I think that it's, the country is definitely moving in that direction, where women have representation.

01:40:27.510 - 01:40:41.430

And minorities are starting to have representation, but you know, we have a ways to go, especially especially for minority representation, because definitely the numbers of minorities, and the representations do not coincide.

01:40:41.940 - 01:40:55.390

You know, so there's a lot of, for example, Hispanics, there aren't that many Hispanic, like elected leaders. But I think it's, it's encouraging as the new generations come, and they are being trained, and they see,

01:40:56.850 - 01:41:08.810

see everything that's going on that they're hopefully going to become more engaged. So as I told you the story about my dad, you know, you got to stay, you got to stay in science, this and that, we have not been like that with our

01:41:08.810 - 01:41:21.670

kids. So, you know, our kids are doing something completely different than being a doctor, or an engineer. And I think a lot of lot of parents are starting to come to that conclusion that, you know, Asians need to be

01:41:21.670 - 01:41:34.310

represented in other fields. And so hopefully moving in that direction, and I think, you know, even like, I have a lot of Hispanic students, you know, the, we are an HSI and an MSI, Hispanic

01:41:34.310 - 01:41:49.040

serving institution, a minority serving Institute. So we have a lot of students of color. And, you know, there's, you know, there's, I meet some really, really go getter type of students, you know, both

01:41:49.080 - 01:42:03.300

male and female, that really believe that the same thing that they need more representation. And so I think, you know, I, I'm sure the country will go up and down, and depending on, you know, who comes to power, but overall

01:42:03.300 - 01:42:16.260

trajectory, you know, I'm quite hopeful as the new generation. And as I told you, I love working with the new generation, as they come of age that they're going to sort of move the country and the world, you know,

01:42:16.260 - 01:42:31.040

forward the right direction. Yeah, that's amazing to hear, and very happy that we interview your son and supporters as well, ran for city council, putting more voices in the public?

01:42:32.650 - 01:42:46.540

Yes, we do. We definitely do. Thank you. And I guess, just some last words, before we close, and like any message you would like to, as you said, send to your future grandchildren, and your grandchildren's

01:42:46.540 - 01:42:57.820

children and so on, and when they view the archive? Well, so I would like them to know, you know, what they're, I think this is this is a wonderful

01:42:58.580 - 01:43:13.640

chronology that you're doing our storytelling project that you have, because it does make it available to next generations. So we'll have an opportunity to see what their grandparents or their great

01:43:13.700 - 01:43:27.170

grandparents were like, and what the what the environment was like, at this time. And, you know, we hear stories, of course, from our parents and grandparents, but we can't picture them, right. So this is a nice way that

01:43:27.170 - 01:43:41.780

they'll actually hear it from us. But yeah, I want them to, you know, make sure that they keep the values and the ethics of the family, and always strive to be their

01:43:41.780 - 01:43:56.830

best. And that's really what you can do. You know, you can, you can just do your best. And then if something doesn't go your way, then you, you know, you're unhappy for a while and you're allowed to, you're allowed to do that.

01:43:57.360 - 01:44:07.020

And then you get back up again, and you try again, because there's just so much to do in this world. And you want to make sure that you do your part.

01:44:07.610 - 01:44:21.610

You know, it's important that at the end of your life, you can say that you did something and I want them to do that. Thank you so much, Dr. Poonam Salhotra.

01:44:21.940 - 01:44:22.440

Thank you.