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Today is June 2, 2021. My name is Josh Kim. I'm an intern at the Houston Asian American Archive, and I'll be talking with Nicky Sohn, who's a composer currently pursuing her DMA at Rice University's Shepherd School

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of Music. Nicky, I'm gonna ask you questions in a roughly chronological order, but we'll just follow the conversation wherever it goes. So I guess the first thing I want to ask is when and where you were born?

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I was born in Seoul, Korea in 1992. So now I'm 29—it's crazy! So what was it like growing up in Seoul? What was your home environment?

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We moved around a lot—so I was born in Seoul, but within six years of elementary school, I went to four different elementary schools. We always moved a lot.

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I have a lot of siblings, too—I have three younger siblings, I have a sister and two brothers. And we originally are from the southern part of Korea. My dad was born in

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Gyeongju—do you know where that is? And my mom's family lived in Ulsan, which is even more south. So I used to also live in Ulsan, and also

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I lived in Busan for a while too. So we moved quite a bit. Got it. So yeah, what was… I guess I'm

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wondering what your home environment was like growing up? Could you tell me a little bit about your parents and what effect they had on you and on the family? Yeah, just your early

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memories, I guess. Could you share some early memories of growing up? Yeah! So my dad's a lawyer, and my mom also studied and worked a lot. So I always had a nanny who was taking care of us.

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And also, our grandma lived with us here and there, too. So I had really busy parents. Yeah, so I think I had to learn to be independent pretty early on. But I started music really early; I started playing piano

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when I was 20 months, which is crazy! Like, when I look at 20 months old now, you know, that's not even a person . So music was always a big part of me.

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I did piano all throughout , and I also sang a lot during elementary school up until maybe 13 years old. So I did a lot of singing competitions, actually. It's like a culture in Korea, where kids have kid songs and we have

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music competitions, so I did a lot of that. My siblings were also given piano lessons and violin lessons, but they were never really into it. But we did a lot

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of different things like going to after school programs is a big thing in Korea. You know about it? So we did Taekwondo, we did art, music, all sorts of things. So I think as a child, I was a pretty busy one.

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I always had a schedule to follow up. And actually, during second grade, my house was a little bit further from school. So I

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got my first cell phone when I was nine years old, which is super early. And… yeah, I don't know—like, very busy parents and also busy children,yeah.

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Yeah… so if you were nine, that would be like, 2001 or something like that? What did cell phones look like then? I forget… Well, I never forgot because I wasn't conscious!

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. So this cell phone that I had was kind of like this , but it had a little flip only on the bottom—the keypad, and then it had a big antenna too. It was super cool!

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I mean, Korea was really quick about these technologies and the cell phone industry. Like, I would change my cell phone maybe every year or so to keep up, and my mom was always super down to buy me stuff.

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She was busy—I think she felt bad, you know? So I had all sorts of different phones. I had like… yeah. Yeah, that's funny.

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I do remember… I grew up mostly in the US, but I did live in Korea for a couple years. And one of the biggest things that surprised me was all these kids having cell phones, because I was in elementary

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school, middle school. And I think at that time in the US—where I was before that, I was like, "cell phones aren't a thing you have until you're older."

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Right, like high school! I think that stood out to me… Yeah, that's interesting. So as you said, you got into music very early. That was

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at your parents' drove you to do that? Do you think that… when you were younger, what was motivating your engagement with music?

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To what extent was it your parents' influence, to what extent was it, you know, cultivating your own motivation? Or like, maybe from other sources as well? How did you, how did you

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engage with music, I guess, when you were that young? So actually, my parents didn't want me to be a musician. They knew that it was not very stable. The career path for musicians, you know—what even is that?

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So my parents were hoping that I would just have fun with it and do it as a hobby. But the reason why I started so early was because I went to kindergarten when I was like, 20

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months. And I came back home one day, and I started playing this Brahms lullaby melody on a toy piano. And then my parents, like, freaked out. And they were like, "Oh my god, we need to get her lessons right away!"

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That's sort of how I started. And once I was in it—I don't know, I always really liked expressing myself through music. It was almost like a toy to

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me that I could like, bang on and make noise . Yeah, and also I really liked how music—So I was also in chorus, and as I told you, I sang a little bit too.

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And within doing that, I made a lot of friends, and music was always a community sort of thing. So I really liked that part of it too, yeah. And my

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parents always encouraged me, they thought that it was nice that I had something that I was focusing on and I was like, passionate about. But again, they were always thinking that it would be better if

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I became a lawyer, like my dad, or like something a little bit more concrete, you know? But it didn't happen . That's the danger of training your children in music as a hobby-—they could always

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actually do it for a living. You have to be careful! . Okay… alright, so did you—I'm wondering,

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did you go to a high school for the arts or anything like that? At what point- at what point did you really start concentrating on music as something you could do—not professionally , but something that you would

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do with your life? So actually, I made that decision pretty early on. During my last year of elementary school and first year of middle school—like school really wasn't— I didn't have very much fun at school. I didn't really like how I had to

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do all these things that I didn't really care for. I'm still like that: things that I care for, I'm like, all about it. But if I don't really, see the point or I'm not interested, I just can't get myself to be interested or engaged.

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But—during the first year of middle school, it really wasn't for me, so I quit school, actually. I started being homeschooled. And I mean, it also happened very naturally. I came home one day and I told my mom

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that I didn't want to go to school anymore. And my mom was like, "Okay, then don't go." That's actually how it happened! It was like, not a big

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deal—"Sure, don't go." So I didn't go, and I was homeschooled for about a year. But my mom thought that—so in Korea, the semester— the year begins in March. And I was born in March, so I was one of the younger kids in the year.

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She thought that if I just spent the year doing whatever I wanted and if I had to go back to school, it wouldn't be such a big deal. So she told me that in a year, if I could graduate from high school, she would send me to America to

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study music. So, for that year, I didn't really meet any friends, I just studied really hard. And I actually got out of high school when I was 14. And then I

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came to America with my mom, my mom also wanted to study. So that's when we left Korea. Yeah, cool. So you attended Mannes

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College, right? That's part of the New School, right? In New York? I think… Oh, sorry, I think you're breaking up a little bit with the Zoom connection.

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You're clear now! Yeah, so you attended Mannes School of Music in New York, and that's part of the New School there, right? Yeah, so

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what was—tell me what that was like—both the school itself and your experience there, but also this transition from Korea to the United States.

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Sure. So when I came to America, when I was 14, I really didn't speak very much English. So in the first two years here, I learned English, and I also took private lessons, like piano lessons,

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to get into a conservatory. And I really wanted to go to a conservatory in New York. So I went to Mannes when I was 16, and I did piano for two years there. And then, I was always improvising, and I always was

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interested in composing. So I started improvising when I was around eight, and during the time in New York, the first two years, I realized that I wanted to compose more than play other people's music.

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So I transitioned into composing more and more, and I started a composition major when I was 18. But I mean, going to New York at 16, and living by yourself… When I look back, I have no idea how I survived,

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really! But at the time, I didn't think too much about it, I thought it was like, perfectly fine! But yeah, it was completely different.

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I mean, I had to have my own schedule and figure out what I'm going to eat, how to do laundry and all that stuff. But New York has this sort of energy where like, when you're there, you're there, and

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you're just a part of it. And you're just so busy, you know? So I didn't really even have so much time to think about what I was going through. But I mean, college was really fun!

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I'm sure you're having fun at Rice. Mine’s a pandemic year, but… . Hope things get back to normal-ish. Right! But Mannes was a super small school.

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So right now they've moved downtown. So the school's a little bit different than when I went—I was the last graduating class when it was uptown in New York. But it was about

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150 people in school with just one tiny building. And so everyone knew everyone, and it was a really supportive environment. It was almost family-like, and we all got to know each other really, really well. So I really liked the

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support and encouragement that my teachers gave me. And during that time, I also did a lot of different things in New York—I did New York Symphony , which helped me write different chamber pieces and a small

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orchestra piece. And just hearing my music played by a lot of different groups and people, that definitely helped me a lot to sort of have an idea of what I wanted to do further, yeah.

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Yeah, I guess something I picked up on is like—it seems like you had a lot of support, whether that was your friends and community back in Seoul, or your mom who—you know, who let you quit and focus on

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music. And also this environment you found at Mannes School. So I'm just wondering—how important do you think that sort of communal support was

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to yourself, but also, you know, your understanding of music? And was there any, was there any sort of—how do I put

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this—notable conflict between your desires and the desires of those who were supporting you, like your parents? Hmm. Well, of course the support and all that was super

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important. Also because—that was already, like, 10 years ago. But when I look back, the composition environment, the industry was really dominated—it still kind of is—it's very much dominated by white male composers.

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Right now, they're doing more and more—they're putting a lot of effort in diversifying the voices and also the population of who composes. But when I look back at a

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composition forum that I had to go to every week, I would be, like, maybe one of the three female composers in the room, with like, 30 other male composers. So my teacher was really, really supportive, and he

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made me think that I could make a career out of this—which was super important to me, because it was already a very intimidating environment, because there weren't people like me in the room—like physically, you know? So that

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was really important. But my parents, even up until my years, my dad still wanted me to reconsider my path,

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my career path. And he thought that I should maybe try to go to a law school. He finally gave up on that thought, because I've gone further with my degrees and my career.

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But yeah, definitely—he always supported me with what I'm doing, but also hoped that I would quit at some point, you know? So it was like a complicated thing there too But for myself, too, I think it took me a while to be comfortable

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with who I am and what I do and just about my existence and identity. Because I'm still Korean—I'm not American, I'm a Korean citizen. But I've lived here more than half of my life at

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this point, you know… Am I breaking up? You were breaking up a little bit, yeah. Yeah, so I've lived here more than half of my life at this point. So I've lived as a foreigner for such a long

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time that I had to almost find myself a space in this country to do what I do, and also believe in myself that I can do what I do. And so it's been like, definitely a struggle a little bit. But—and also during my undergrad,

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because I had a piano background, I never really played chamber music or orchestra or anything. So I definitely lacked in that sort of experience—that was something that I also had to overcome and study a

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lot. So undergrad, I think, was really fun of course, but a lot of self-motivating and self-realization time that I spent. Do you think there's a—what are some notable differences

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between the culture of music training you were in in Korea and the culture of music training that you had in the US? Hmm.

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So it's kind of hard to compare for me, because when I was in Korea and studied music, I was so young, you know? But I've been through different schools—like, enough schools

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now in the US that I could see the differences here, actually , some of the systems that they use and whatnot. But Korea, I think, is super focused. Like, if you want to become a musician, people kind of

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put that label on you at a really early age and prepare you for it the way that you need it. Like, I don't think it's as competitive here when you are a younger person, you know?

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But having competition experiences at an age before 10—that's totally normal in Korea. Versus here, you don't make that decision until you're in high school, or like, late middle school,

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you know? Yeah, that totally makes sense. I've heard that difference for a lot of different professions, actually, between the US and a lot of other countries, where that kind of decision or label of what you

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are professionally is usually forced on you at a much younger age. So yeah, that's interesting. So… oh, quick question—you said

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your mother also came with you to the US, but you were living on your own. So she was studying elsewhere? Yeah, so my mom and I lived in Connecticut for two years—all my siblings came too, after one month of

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being here by ourselves. So they were living in Connecticut, and I started living in New York by myself since I was like, 16, yeah. Alright, gotcha.

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So do you think you could share a favorite—do you have a favorite or treasured memory of a moment with a teacher? Yeah, some memory of an instructive learning experience with a teacher

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that's really shaped you? Or a memory or two—how many you want to recount. Sure! So this was when I was 21: I went to Bowdoin Music Festival during the summer, and I met this

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composer named Derek Bermel. He's a wonderful composer, and I had always been a huge fan of his music. He was a composer in residence at Venice a year before. So I was like obsessed with his music, and I really wanted to

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study with him. So I went to Bowdoin. And before I met Derek Bermel, a lot of the teachers would talk about the things that I would have to improve on.

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Like, "What's your voice? What are you trying to portray in this music? You need to learn this, that," you know? But then he was the first person to really point out

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the things that I was good at. And that was something that was really important to me, because he showed me different aspects.

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You know, music is multi-dimensional, you can focus on so many different things in music. But you can't be good at everything that you do in music. So he was talking about how I should focus on the things that I was already good

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at and I was gifted at, and then develop that. And one thing that he said was—I still have this sort of playful humor in my music. I really, really like funny

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things, and I'm not like a 100% serious person all the time. And my music tends to be like that, too—it's very playful and it's very full of joy, and he was mentioning how humor is a big thing about my music.

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And it's actually really hard to pull together in a classical medium. So he was talking about how I could maybe develop that sense in my music a little bit more, and the thing he said was, "Best humor comes from best

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timing." So timing was something that he wanted me to work on and think about a little bit more. And I'm still working on this timing and structure in my music a lot.

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But yeah, looking at my music in a more analytical way was really, really helpful, and that was a very crucial comment that I heard during my undergrad. And then—I mean, I've also had some

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unfortunate experiences, where I learned a ton from, you know? I mean, as a female composer, these days, people are definitely more careful and sensitive, even though it's not 100% like that yet. But it's definitely different.

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But 10 years ago, people would talk about my music like—this very famous teacher listened to my music and said that my music was feminine, too feminine. What does that even mean, you

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know?! Like, how is music "too feminine"? And so seeing me and who I am, and then listening to my music totally gave him the idea that like, "Oh, it's too feminine, I'm not gonna take it seriously"— sort of thing, you

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know? So that was something that I also thought about a lot: what it meant to be a female composer and writing the music that I write. And then another composer—another really famous composer listened to my music

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and he asked me why my music doesn't sound Asian. And that also made me think about what I am doing a lot, you know?

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Because when you're asked a question like that, how do you really answer that? But it was in this masterclass situation where there were audiences—"audiences" being a bunch of composers. And when I was asked that, I was definitely

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flustered and pretty upset, you know? And my answer was that the fact that I came to the US to study Western classical music is because I was interested in learning this medium of music,

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not Korean traditional music. But then as the years progressed, that comment actually means—like, it started to mean a lot to me. Because as I developed my music, and as I developed as a

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composer, I did start to think about what it meant to be a Korean composer, not just a composer. So these days, I'm trying to find a good balance between writing what I

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do and where I come from, and how I was trained, and all these things—like, trying to merge it in a harmonious way. So these, like, questionable comments have definitely made me think about music in the ways that, you

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know, I might not have, yeah. Yeah. I actually remember one of the bios that you have on, like—I mean, there's various festivals and various commissioning organizations that have your bio on their sites.

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And I think on one of them—I can't remember which—I was reading a list of people you've taken classes with or studied with, and recognizing a lot of names. And like, when you were telling me these anecdotes, I was like, "I wonder if any

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of those names—if any of them said these things to you?" You don't have to spill the tea, I understand why— And those people are usually not on my bio, because… you know I know! I think I only found it, like, on one source or something like that

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Yeah, actually—I don't know if I'm going to dive into this straight away, but I do definitely have some questions about like—you know, like, Western classical versus other music and how you see yourself within

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that and all that stuff. Um… what would you say are some of your biggest non-musical influences on what you do? Well, I

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really love cooking. So that's one of my biggest hobbies. Yeah, I find a lot of similarities in cooking

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and composing. Like, when I'm composing, I have to think about what I have: instrumentation, the duration, what they're asking for. Cooking is almost exactly the same—I have to look into my kitchen and see what I have and what I can put together in the amount of time that I have.

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So I actually spent a lot of time cooking, especially during the pandemic. And so… I like doing that. I also watch a ton of basketball.

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So, I'm a huge Clippers fan! When I first—so I moved to LA after living in New York for nine years, and LA was pretty rough, and I didn't have that much to do.

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And so I started watching a ton of basketball. And that year was a really fun year to follow the NBA, so I got really into it. And the Clippers tickets were really, really cheap, because our team

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never really did well. And so I would pay $8 to go see the game whenever I wanted. Yeah, so I still watch a ton of basketball. Um, what else? I really like having—well, I really like seeing

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my friends, and also talking about music and making music together. So I do a lot of collaboration. Other than doing commissions, I am usually working with my friends.

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And this past year, I've written so much for people that I see regularly so that we could try things together. And also, the more I know about the performer, I can write something that they could appreciate and I

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could appreciate, and when they're more honest with their playing, I think the performance turns out better too. So I do a lot of that too, yeah. That's cool. I

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think you mentioned in your site bio, collaboration in music is something that you really value. I guess I'm wondering if you could share some of your favorite collaborative experiences, whether that's in—as

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you said, whether that's in the more formal, commission-type kind of setting, where you're rehearsing and et cetera, but also these collaborations you do with friends and things like that. So what are your-some of your

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favorite collaborative experiences? Yeah! So I have this music festival that I do. This is going to be our third year—we do it in the summer. And it is to pair composers and guitarists together to create new works for

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guitar. So contemporary classical guitar is not really a thing. People are writing more and more for the guitar, but it's not always the most celebrated instrument, because it is pretty intimidating.

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guitar's really, really hard to write for. But when I moved to LA, I met a fantastic guitarist, a Korean guitarist, Bokyung Byun. And we've become really close friends.

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We basically—like, she had her own place, I had my own place, but we would basically live together. Like, I would see her literally three times a day. So we got really close, and we did everything together, except that I never

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wrote for the guitar, and I felt really intimidated by it. So one day, I was like, "You know what, I should just do it! You're right here, and I could try things out." And so I even bought a small guitar to try things out.

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But that was way too hard, so I actually ended up giving my guitar to her so she could use it for teaching. But yeah, so I've written several pieces for guitar at this point.

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The writing process is very specific for guitar. Even though I've done it several times, guitar is still really difficult. 'Cause sometimes I think that some things are really hard, but then she would think, "Oh, it's totally fine,

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it's not hard." And vice versa. So when I'm composing for guitar, I have my composition program on, and then I have the guitar fret on one corner of my screen, and then

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a chat with her. So I'll write two lines of music and I'll send it to her through text, and she'll tell me, "Oh, yeah, this is doable, this is not doable." And she would play it and record it to me and send it

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to me right away. So it's very much an organic experience where I get to actually hear what it's gonna sound like. And then with that recording as a reference, the process is much faster.

00:33:56.210 - 00:34:15.570

But without having that sort of collaborative effort, I don't think I could write for guitar like I have done. So I was in LA, but I moved away from LA. And we wanted to create this platform where we can

00:34:15.570 - 00:34:32.580

get more composers and more guitarists to meet and write stuff. But also, we wanted to have an excuse to meet each year, each summer, and meet and hang out, basically. So that was a big part of why we created this music festival.

00:34:33.280 - 00:34:50.330

But last year, because of the pandemic, we couldn't do it in person. So we ended up commissioning 15 composers to write one- to two-minute short guitar pieces, and we got 13 guitarists to play all these pieces.

00:34:51.160 - 00:35:02.670

That was a very fun online thing! But we haven't seen each other for two years, and I am planning on seeing her in the summer. So we're gonna be making recordings together.

00:35:03.580 - 00:35:17.870

I also just wrote another guitar piece for her, so we're going to be collaborating on that. And another collaborative aspect that I really enjoy is choreography and music.

00:35:18.530 - 00:35:32.110

I've done several dance pieces by now, and I think it's just always so cool to see how music is expressed through body movements. Music is a very,

00:35:32.110 - 00:35:44.820

very abstract form of art, you know? Like, I could be writing about… I don't know, for wind quintet. But then for

00:35:44.950 - 00:35:59.160

it to really—for the subject or the theme idea to really come through, that takes a lot of imagination—from the listeners too, you know? And so—also like one thing that's really cool about dance

00:35:59.160 - 00:36:16.200

projects is that music gets to dictate the timeline of events and moods and dynamic, but music somehow is in the background almost, and the dance is in the foreground, because people are just more drawn to the visual

00:36:16.200 - 00:36:28.450

aspect of the stage. So I also really love just taking this much pressure off of my craft but like having it as a supporting factor.

00:36:29.950 - 00:36:45.440

Yeah, so I have a choreographer I've done two pieces with, his name is Fabio Adorisio, he's an Italian ballet dancer. He works in the Stuttgart Ballet, and we met, actually, in New York.

00:36:45.560 - 00:37:02.040

I worked with the New York Choreography Institute and New York City Ballet a few years back; he and I were paired, and we met through Skype. And he talked a lot about what the piece can be and what he

00:37:02.040 - 00:37:13.580

wanted to see and hear. The first piece was really, really fun to work on, we just clicked and did it and it was awesome! So we got another commission from

00:37:14.000 - 00:37:30.410

the Stuttgart Ballet the following year, and I wrote a really big piece for it. I wrote about a 20-minute long string quintet for this series of duets that he had envisioned.

00:37:30.410 - 00:37:45.720

So I wrote the piece in LA, and I flew out to Stuttgart twice. I went to work on it with him, and also the musicians, before he could bring the dancers to the musicians. So we

00:37:45.720 - 00:38:02.650

did that, and then I went back to hear the premiere. Yeah, I always love working with choreographers because music is a huge, essential part of their work, but the way they hear music and the way that they experience

00:38:03.900 - 00:38:24.920

music is totally different from musicians where music is just it, you know? That's it. Yeah. So choreography, and I think I also read that—you also mentioned

00:38:26.360 - 00:38:43.030

doing stuff with ballet and opera. And so these sort of theatrical elements, or theatrical counterparts, to and with music, that's something that you're

00:38:43.030 - 00:39:00.210

into. I was wondering… just in general, either when you're listening to or composing music, do you often associate it with things like imagery and narrative and things like that? Is there often that extra musical

00:39:00.440 - 00:39:15.490

component you're imagining when it comes to—even just engaging with music on a general level? Mm-hmm. So actually, that's a really good question. Music is just very abstract, and if I don't have something

00:39:15.690 - 00:39:31.100

tangible that I can think about and imagine about, I have a really hard time starting a piece or continuing a piece. So before I even write a single note, I think about what I want to write about, and I think about who I'm writing

00:39:31.140 - 00:39:44.880

for. So if I'm writing for a specific person, we have a lot of conversations before. I at least set up an hour meeting with them and tell them to just tell me about them, or what they like, what they don't like—you know, whatever.

00:39:45.060 - 00:40:00.640

Then I bounce off from that conversation to come up with an idea. Or I also like to work with preexisting musical elements. I've been using a lot of Korean folk music and Korean

00:40:00.690 - 00:40:16.360

folk tunes to create my own versions of those musical elements. Yeah, definitely. And also I write a lot about my personal life and what I do every day like it could be something really

00:40:16.930 - 00:40:32.410

mundane. But you know, I feel like if I can't relate to the music personally, I can't really create anything that's engaging. So up until the pandemic

00:40:32.410 - 00:40:47.690

started—once the pandemic started, everything changed. Like, I was just home, so this didn't really anything. Before that, I would have a conversation with my friends, or I would just do something,

00:40:48.720 - 00:41:03.140

you know, whatever. And then something would be funny, or interesting, then I would write it down on my notes. And I would collect titles. So if I went to a museum and I saw a really cool painting, I would take down the

00:41:03.180 - 00:41:17.570

title and whatever I saw about it, and then I'd write about the painting that I saw. So I would collect titles before. Maybe I gotta start doing that now that I can get out of my house a

00:41:18.000 - 00:41:30.780

little bit more . It's really interesting to hear how your working process kind of comes from and ties into all these moments in your everyday life. Yeah, that's cool!

00:41:36.250 - 00:41:53.590

So I didn't ask you extensively yet about some other schooling or just life chronology. So after Mannes, you studied at Julliard, and then you were in LA, right?

00:41:55.420 - 00:42:13.250

So yeah, could you tell me what was it like studying at Julliard? And then what your time in LA was like? Especially since you said that was your first, yeah, first new place after living in New York for such a long time in the US?

00:42:14.420 - 00:42:26.760

Yeah, tell me about Julliard and LA. Yeah, so, Julliard was really tough, actually. Um, I'm glad that I've done it.

00:42:27.360 - 00:42:40.930

But if I look back, I don't want to go back doing that again, ever. It was pretty competitive, and my class was really, really talented. Like, everybody

00:42:40.930 - 00:42:55.690

in my class was really, really good. And I probably was not the best, probably one of the bottom ones. So there were seven composers in my year, and I was the only female composer. And that also made me feel a little bit

00:42:55.690 - 00:43:09.910

uncomfortable, because in the room, there was just not a lot of people like me, you know? And so I almost feel like I had to make my—I had to prove something to find my space.

00:43:09.940 - 00:43:23.770

Because also my teacher, who's a wonderful, wonderful person, and he taught me a lot of things, but he had so many students that to be even remembered weekly, I had to really prove myself.

00:43:25.090 - 00:43:40.350

And so I had to work very, very hard, and all the classes were pretty demanding. The first semester that I was there, I was—there was one day at school, I was—I don't know, I was

00:43:40.760 - 00:43:57.150

there for like, 10, 12 hours, something like that. And I was taking the subway back home, and I realized that I had not spoken a word except for to sing a dominant seventh inversion of something in my ear training class.

00:43:57.230 - 00:44:09.810

And that made me feel really sad! It's like, it's not what I signed up for, you know? But at the time, when—especially the second year, I had a lot of fun.

00:44:09.810 - 00:44:26.330

I made a lot of friends, and one thing that was really great about Juilliard was that, obviously, the performers were just excellent. They were fantastic, and really hearing my music played on that sort of high level really gave me

00:44:26.660 - 00:44:37.200

motivation to write better music too. And so that was really, really awesome. And my teacher encouraged me a lot to write a lot. So one thing that I am

00:44:38.480 - 00:44:54.230

pretty good at is I write fast, I'm very prolific. So he was talking about how, my time at Juilliard, like the two years of my master's, I should spend most of my energy and time writing music and making mistakes during

00:44:54.780 - 00:45:13.450

school so that when I'm out of school, I know that I don't have to make those mistakes again. So I wrote 11—like, 13, 14 pieces a year, which is a lot for a composer. But yeah, I got to hear a lot of my music performed, and, yeah,

00:45:13.980 - 00:45:28.340

it was fun—partied a lot! Yeah. And then I moved to LA—so I really wanted to study with this teacher, Richard Danielpour. He's—yeah, I

00:45:28.510 - 00:45:40.910

love his music. So he had just gotten his job at UCLA, or he was about to. And I wanted to

00:45:40.910 - 00:45:55.770

study with him, so I more or less followed him to UCLA to do my PhD. But UCLA was a very different environment than I came from. So it was more of a just general university, and then a

00:45:55.770 - 00:46:10.610

music department , you know? And I had come from a very focused conservatory background. It was hard for me to relate to some of the people, I will say. Like, music wasn't taken as seriously as I was used to.

00:46:12.210 - 00:46:24.230

And LA was a pretty difficult city to get through, I felt. New York was stressful, but small enough that you can meet people super easily. But LA is really,

00:46:24.230 - 00:46:40.680

really big and really spread out, and also I didn't know how to drive, which was a big deal—I didn't know how to drive at all. And so… yeah, I—it wasn't really

00:46:43.780 - 00:46:53.750

a environment. I was going through a lot with—my family was going through a lot at the time too, so I didn't really want to continue living in LA anymore, so I

00:46:53.770 - 00:47:05.890

decided to leave. Yeah, but I was there for about a year and a half, two years? Yeah. My sister still lives there. Oh, okay! So where did you go after that?

00:47:06.970 - 00:47:22.990

So that one year—so also, I think the reason why I really wanted to leave—like, I had a lot of different reasons for it: I had financial issues, and, you know, family issues and whatnot. But since going to Mannes at 16, I

00:47:22.990 - 00:47:36.410

had never taken a year off from school. So I think I just felt really burnt out, and I almost felt discouraged to compose, in a way, because I was so in this competitive sort of environment so I

00:47:37.440 - 00:47:55.310

didn’t want to do it anymore. So the year that I took off, I decided to do everything that I wanted to do that I couldn't because I was in school. So, I actually packed up two bags and moved to Berlin.

00:47:55.310 - 00:48:08.280

I had always wanted to go to Oktoberfest—that was also the first thing that I did! I'd always wanted to go to Oktoberfest for years and years, but couldn't because it's always during the school year.

00:48:08.850 - 00:48:21.630

So I packed up two bags; left; got to Berlin; dropped my bags in my apartment; and then flew to Oktoberfest the next day! And I had a lot of fun.

00:48:22.300 - 00:48:38.240

So I was in Berlin for about three months. And everything—I got a museum pass there, so every single day, I went to at least one museum. And I just walked around the city, and I also felt really—I felt

00:48:38.490 - 00:48:51.100

the need to be alone after having lived in so many big cities. So I would go without communicating or really doing anything with people for days.

00:48:51.130 - 00:49:05.620

And that was really good for me, because I just wanted to think about the long term goals that I had, and also I wanted to listen to a lot of music. Yeah, so the three months in Berlin, it was really interesting,

00:49:05.620 - 00:49:23.430

because that was also my first time not being super close to a piano. During that three months, I never played the piano. So composing without any sort of piano, that was a new experience for me, because I like

00:49:23.430 - 00:49:34.080

to improvise and check things out on the piano. So that was interesting. And I listened to a lot of music. I saw a lot of concerts and operas, which was also

00:49:34.120 - 00:49:44.070

great. I also went to Spain, I always wanted to visit there. So yeah, I did that for a while. And then I came back to Korea and then traveled a

00:49:44.070 - 00:49:58.480

ton. I went to Japan, I went to Russia, I went to a lot of different places in Korea. And about a year of that—I mean, I was getting really comfortable, because my mom would just do everything for me. I didn't think about—

00:49:58.930 - 00:50:09.650

you know, paying rent. And so I was like, "Hmm, maybe this is a thing…" . But then my parents really wanted me to leave .

00:50:09.860 - 00:50:27.750

Yeah, so I applied to the program at Rice. I also applied to the Royal Conservatory of Music in England. And yeah, I don't know, I thought that Rice had just a very nice and supportive

00:50:28.390 - 00:50:49.960

environment. And the faculty just seemed really awesome, so I came here. But yeah. Yeah. You've been in a lot of places over your life, for sure! Um… let's see…

00:50:54.680 - 00:51:12.440

so, I'm wondering—I think I'm gonna go to that subject I mentioned earlier of your relationship with classical music,

00:51:12.440 - 00:51:28.420

whatever that means. And specifically what is your relationship to classical tradition, the establishment of the conservatory system?

00:51:29.980 - 00:51:46.670

Yeah, do you see yourself as part of this Western classical—these Western classical lineages, whether historic or contemporary? And if you don't see yourself that way, in what ways do you see

00:51:46.760 - 00:52:03.100

yourself as deviating or innovative or things like that? Hmm. So, my musical training has been completely focused in this , you know? I learned theory, and I learned the classical piano since I was a really young person.

00:52:03.560 - 00:52:21.340

And so my background definitely is that and I feel the most comfortable with that medium. But over the past few years, I started growing more interested in Korean folk music. And that began because I got commissioned

00:52:21.340 - 00:52:38.330

by the National Theatre of Korea a few years back. And when I got that commission, I was super thrilled. But also, I had no idea how to approach it, because—I don't know if you've seen their orchestra, but it's all Korean

00:52:38.430 - 00:52:57.550

instruments. It's Korean instruments, and it's a large orchestra, and I basically didn't know more than half of the instruments that were sitting on the stage. And when I got that commission, I was living in LA, so I didn't really have access to

00:52:57.670 - 00:53:11.800

any of these instruments. So the way I learned about these instruments was through books, which is super limiting, because I'm trying to do music, but books—it doesn't—what does that tell me, you know?

00:53:12.460 - 00:53:28.620

And then I saw a lot of YouTube videos of what these instruments sound like. So it was basically me guessing, and… I made whatever I made, went and flew out to

00:53:28.620 - 00:53:45.340

Korea. First rehearsal, I was completely shocked. Like, most of the estimates that I made, I was super off! So there was one instrument—

00:53:45.420 - 00:53:53.810

Wait, you were breaking up a little bit. Sorry, do you think you could start from—okay, you flew to Korea, you got there, and then what happened? Sorry, you broke up a little bit.

00:53:54.140 - 00:54:12.260

Yeah,so I flew there. And then I got to the first rehearsal, and I realized that I was completely off—like, I don't know, my estimates were just not… not right

00:54:12.770 - 00:54:30.250

It's like a trumpet at the end, but it also has a reed like an oboe. So when I saw and heard the instrument on YouTube, I was like, "Okay, so it's like a hybrid of oboe and trumpet,okay, I

00:54:30.250 - 00:54:46.780

can maybe do something with that." I went there, and I realized that, yes, it was kind of like oboe and trumpet except it's 40 times louder than I expected! So, I was… like, I didn't know what to say, you

00:54:46.920 - 00:54:59.470

know? I was like, "Wow, thank you, wow, that was—that was surprising…" Pretty much all I could say! And then we worked on my tempo and other things like that. But then, after the first rehearsal, I had to meet with the 태평소 player.

00:54:59.500 - 00:55:17.270

And I was like, "I'm sorry, that's just not what I expected you to sound like." So we ended up editing a lot through. But I almost felt embarrassed how little I knew about my own culture and my own music, and instruments from

00:55:17.270 - 00:55:31.770

my own country! So being thrown in that position was a really great segue for me to learn about these things. Even though the performance—I mean, it was a gigantic performance too at the National

00:55:31.770 - 00:55:45.920

Theatre, and I was like, "Uh, how is it gonna go?" But it went fine. So, there were four pieces, and all the other people—all the other composers had a Korean music background, so they knew exactly what to do.

00:55:46.120 - 00:56:01.610

Except for me. I also had a piano in it too, so my piece sounds very different from what they were used to. But since that experience, I started doing a little bit more research in Korean folk music, and I've recently gotten more into

00:56:02.800 - 00:56:16.150

learning about the rhythmic modes of Korea. And I then realized also that I was used to andI was familiar with these tunes and these sounds,

00:56:16.150 - 00:56:32.090

it's just that I never categorized them in the way that Western music has been for me. So these days, I've been trying to make a connection between what I'm trained with and where I come from.

00:56:32.420 - 00:56:47.060

And also, I'm still young, so I can still train myself in a new medium. So I'm really interested in doing that and merging the two different cultures that I have and grew up with.

00:56:47.560 - 00:57:04.270

And one thing that I wanted to add also is that because I moved a lot—since a young age, I moved all the time— the longest place that I lived in was two years, even now.

00:57:05.170 - 00:57:21.770

So having moved so much, I almost don't, I don't really have a home. Like, I'll go back to Korea, and a lot of the time, I would get to the airport, and my dad would pick me up and then drive me to a completely new area that I don't know about, because they

00:57:21.770 - 00:57:31.790

had moved. My mom really likes moving for some reason. So when I think about the idea of home, I almost don't have one, you know?

00:57:32.280 - 00:57:45.410

Like, home, I guess, is where my parents are. But at the same time, they just moved this year, and I have no idea what the place looks like, where they are. So that's not really home, you know?

00:57:45.470 - 00:57:59.220

And then, because I've moved so much, I also don't have a home, personally. So that was a really difficult thing for me—like, I felt that I didn't really have a place to go back to.

00:57:59.720 - 00:58:14.730

But I think having lived and having grown up that way, I almost became this sort of hybrid of different cultures. And I think that experience gave me the room and courage to just pack up and

00:58:14.730 - 00:58:25.040

leave and live in Berlin. And also musically too—I'm super interested in learning about different types of music. Not just Korean folk

00:58:25.040 - 00:58:39.170

music, but I'm really, really passionate about jazz. I love jazz, and I listen to jazz, mostly, actually. And so that's something that I also heard a lot living in New York, you know?

00:58:40.270 - 00:58:54.450

I would go to jazz bars and hang out with friends, and I would hear these amazing jazz musicians improvise in New York very often. So all these different

00:58:54.450 - 00:59:07.070

little things here and there, it's definitely made me become who I am and become the composer that I am. So I would say I'm not just limited to writing Western classical music, whatever that is,

00:59:07.120 - 00:59:20.770

you know? Yeah, yeah! That's why I put it in quotes—"Western classical." Yeah, it's everything, like—the music that I write is—you know, I write notes and chords and things that one

00:59:20.770 - 00:59:29.310

would be familiar with. But then people could literally write anything and whatever! And that's also classical music. So, yeah.

00:59:29.310 - 00:59:45.280

I mean, there's plenty of stuff that doesn't have notes or chords and it's still music anyway! So yeah… that's cool.

00:59:48.630 - 01:00:03.590

Um… since that National Theatre commission, what other Korean folk music-inspired things have you worked on? I've done a ton!

01:00:03.740 - 01:00:19.250

One of the guitar pieces that I wrote several years back, it was based on this very famous folk tune called 강강술래. I almost made a theme and variations of that tune for solo guitar.

01:00:20.030 - 01:00:36.040

Recently, I wrote a piece for a violinist Lucia Lin—she's a violinist at Boston Symphony, and she commissioned me a piece for violin and piano for her In Tandem project, which is really, really cool; she's gathered 10

01:00:36.040 - 01:00:50.430

composers to write about what it means to be who you are at this confusing time. And so I used one of the very famous Korean lullabies in the

01:00:50.540 - 01:01:06.260

piece, called 섬집 아기 —that means a child on an island. And so I've done that piece, which was really—it was a meaningful project for me. Also, because of the pandemic, I haven't been able to go back home.

01:01:06.680 - 01:01:21.770

I haven't been back in Korea for over almost two years at this point, a year and a half. Yeah, so writing that piece almost reminded me of home and my family.

01:01:21.770 - 01:01:38.100

And I missed my sister's wedding too, which is terrible! Yeah, so that piece was definitely all related to that. I've also done a piece—actually, recently, I did this really

01:01:38.180 - 01:01:54.350

cool project where it was supposed to be inspired by this genre trot. So trot is a genre found in Korea. And it's very much folksy,

01:01:55.580 - 01:02:10.870

and it's almost the country music of Korea. So I did a piece where I gave my own take on trot. So, yeah.

01:02:11.400 - 01:02:27.940

That's pretty cool—yeah, I'd love to hear that! Um, awesome, yeah! So, I guess… I feel we've already

01:02:27.940 - 01:02:45.090

touched on a lot of subjects relating to this question, but I'm trying to word it in a way where it hits at something- something a bit more general, I guess. So do you think of yourself—when

01:02:48.290 - 01:03:10.020

you're labeling yourself, I guess— labeling yourself or your music, do you label it as, like, "Oh, I'm a Korean composer"? Or do you do you feel

01:03:12.800 - 01:03:32.120

like you’re—sorry—Yeah, so do you think of yourself as a Korean composer, or if that's not the label you would use, how would you label yourself? So, being a composer and looking like me

01:03:32.120 - 01:03:45.240

and being like me—it's a very interesting thing. Because a lot of the times they talk about my music and what I do and all that as a female composer work, a female composer this.

01:03:46.140 - 01:03:59.690

And when I signed up for being a composer, I signed up to be a composer, not a female composer. But this label, there's always something else that comes before composer for me.

01:04:00.190 - 01:04:16.460

Yeah, I am Korean, and I guess that makes me a Korean composer. But also, I think that I'm a composer! I don't think that I'm a Korean composer or a female

01:04:16.730 - 01:04:32.780

composer, you know? I am female, I am Korean, but I'm also a composer, so I kind of see that as a separate thing, almost. But it's all me, you know? I think labeling is tricky.

01:04:33.500 - 01:04:53.680

Because labeling—sure, it's easier to categorize me, but it's-it's like, limiting for myself. Like, I don't know if I'm gonna live in America for the rest of my life, I don't

01:04:53.680 - 01:05:05.100

know if I'm gonna go back to Korea. I honestly don't know where I am going to be even in two years, because I'm gonna be done at Rice in about two years. And then, it's up to me!

01:05:06.960 - 01:05:21.970

And that's scary, but also pretty exciting that I can choose to be wherever I want to be. So identity is something that's very important to me, but I don't want to limit myself for just that.

01:05:23.190 - 01:05:37.310

Yeah. I guess that makes me think of the comment you made—that makes me think in the comments you got in those lessons with those famous composers where they're like, "Oh, this sounds feminine. Why doesn't this

01:05:37.310 - 01:05:54.170

sound Asian?" And it's like, a lot of times these Western white composers, they can be polyvocal and draw from all these different sources.

01:05:55.230 - 01:06:12.880

But because of that, it's not like—but their music is still their own, it's not categorized in that way. But I feel like when it comes to a lot of music by people of color or non-men, a

01:06:15.360 - 01:06:29.480

lot of people are like, "Your music needs to sound a specific way in order to fulfill those categories." When it's more like each person creates those categories—which may not be so simple—for themself.

01:06:29.480 - 01:06:43.350

And they don't have to express that category in a way that's like… in a way that's limited to just one culture, or things like that. So I totally, I totally

01:06:43.350 - 01:06:55.270

understand. Right! Especially now that all the cultures are so blended together, you know? We are all super connected, and so just saying, "Oh, you're this"—it's just like, what does that

01:06:55.550 - 01:07:09.830

mean? So one thing that's really interesting for me is that when I go back to Korea, they always know that I've been abroad for a long time. They don't see me as one of them, you know what I mean?

01:07:11.200 - 01:07:24.860

I mean, earlier in my year, that was really hard for me. I would go to, I don't know, even a supermarket, and have a very short conversation with the cashier, and she would know that I wasn't

01:07:24.930 - 01:07:37.370

from there. And so that made me think that I don't belong anywhere. But that also is—and that made me really— that was very challenging for me.

01:07:37.520 - 01:07:53.590

But now I kind of like that I don't belong anywhere, because that means that I have a possibility to belong anywhere, you know what I mean? I don't want to be stuck in one place. And going off of what I had said about that "Oh, your music is too

01:07:53.640 - 01:08:10.440

feminine" comment: so when the teacher said that, I was like, "What does that mean?" And then, you know, I was like, "Uh, okay…" and then his suggestion of me not sounding so feminine was, "You should listen to more Janacek."

01:08:13.240 - 01:08:28.350

Like, how?! You know, I thought that was just so funny to me… Alright, I will listen to more Janacek! Janacek is obviously the alpha male composer . What does that mean about Janacek?

01:08:28.860 - 01:08:45.260

And so, I mean, I did listen to more Janacek afterwards, and I love Janacek. But, like, I felt really confused about that. And actually, another really funny comment that I got was, um—so last year, I had a piece performed at Minnesota

01:08:45.320 - 01:08:55.960

Orchestra. It's the piece that you heard, "Bird Up"? Yeah, I remember that! The Eric Andre Show one. Yeah! So "Bird Up"—that orchestra piece is very much New York.

01:08:56.330 - 01:09:11.800

It has a lot of Gershwin, and it's got a lot of jazz influence, and also this pop culture, like the Eric Andre Show influence. So I hear that piece, and I associate it with this American sound.

01:09:12.850 - 01:09:25.760

But I had it performed at Minnesota Orchestra, and with living composers, they like to invite composers up on the stage to introduce the piece, and myself and whatever. And after the

01:09:25.850 - 01:09:37.560

performance, this gentlemen comes up to me and says, "Oh, your piece was wonderful! It sounded very Asian." And that made me think a lot about

01:09:38.880 - 01:09:53.030

this whole thing about introducing myself before the piece begins. Likehe saw me, and I'm Asian, so my music must sound Asian. And that doesn't even mean that it actually sounded like—

01:09:53.680 - 01:10:11.740

whatever that means, whatever Asian-sounding music is, you know? And so all those comments and my experiences, it makes me feel reluctant about categorizing myself or other composers too, you know?

01:10:12.670 - 01:10:28.020

And, yeah! Okay. Yeah, cool! Um, so I think the questions I have left are

01:10:30.630 - 01:10:49.530

more about recent times, like Houston and quarantine, but also… Yeah, maybe some music superlative stuff, too, like talking about some of your favorite compositions of yours, or influences or composers.

01:10:49.530 - 01:11:03.900

So I think that's what I'll cover in the last bit here. So yeah, could you—can you tell me about your time in Houston and Shepherd so far? I know that it was cut off kind of

01:11:03.900 - 01:11:17.970

early by the pandemic, but yeah—so far, how has Houston been for you? What was the change of pace like? How did you find the school and learning environment and all that stuff? Yeah!

01:11:18.000 - 01:11:30.770

So, first of all, I love Houston. I really like Houston! When I first decided to come to Houston, I had no idea what it was going to be like, 'cause I even did the interview

01:11:31.310 - 01:11:45.280

over Skype. I didn't—I hadn't come to Houston before I came here for the first semester. So I showed up with two bags, and I

01:11:46.650 - 01:12:01.050

kind of felt scared about it at first, because it was Texas, you know? And Texas is Texas, and so I was a little bit, like, "I don't know about this…" But then, actually, I learned that

01:12:01.110 - 01:12:19.370

it's a super diverse city, it's a big city with a lot of culture. There's always something interesting going on, there's a lot of art, there's a lot of activities. And I love how it's closer—it's super close to nature too. Like, if I want to go to a mountain, if I want to go to the beach,

01:12:19.610 - 01:12:30.540

it's all here, which is amazing. I really like that about Houston. And I find that Houston people too are very welcoming and very supportive of

01:12:31.030 - 01:12:46.130

different types of people and whoever, and I really like that about the city. Because the big cities that I had lived before—like, sometimes big cities can be pretty difficult. But Houston was always very welcoming, which I am

01:12:46.130 - 01:13:00.260

very grateful for. And my experience at Shepherd has been—it couldn't have been better. I really, really love the private teachers that I've had; I studied with Anthony Brandt in the first year, and—

01:13:00.260 - 01:13:10.560

I had a composition practicum with him! Yeah, I like Dr. Brandt a lot! He's super cool. Dr. Brandt is actually the best composition teacher

01:13:12.710 - 01:13:24.640

I've ever had. Yes, actually! You know, I've had a lot of different teachers. But whenever I have a question I ask Tony—nobody else. He always comes up

01:13:24.640 - 01:13:37.280

with questions and things to think about that would be crucial for me at that moment. And it wouldn't just be about that one measure that I'm iffy about, it would be a bigger picture

01:13:37.840 - 01:13:53.210

question of, "Why are you iffy about this?" And then he would tell me stories to find my own answer to it. Yeah, I really enjoyed working with him in the first year. And Karim also was an amazing teacher, I studied with Karim

01:13:53.940 - 01:14:11.540

Al-Zand this year. Yeah, he and I only had lessons over Zoom, actually, so that was an interesting experience. But I learned a ton, he always had really great suggestions for music listening; I got to learn about a

01:14:11.540 - 01:14:26.950

lot of the rep that I didn't know about, which was really good. And all my classes have been really helpful. I really like how they focus on the practical elements of going to school.

01:14:26.950 - 01:14:39.120

It's not just about, you know, learning about music theory. We all know music theory by now—or, maybe not, but I've learned it before. But we have classes for writing resumes, writing

01:14:40.200 - 01:14:55.970

artistic statements, those are very important for musicians at our level. So I really am appreciative of all of that. Yeah, and also the musicians and students at Shepherd too!

01:14:56.460 - 01:15:15.460

We're all very, very supportive, I think, and I've never had a problem getting performers to play my music, which is amazing. And Houston too. Like, I got really lucky and got the DaCamera Young Artist Program residency

01:15:16.480 - 01:15:28.900

from the first year. So that got me to do a lot more community works and a lot of community engagement. And also, I met a lot of musicians and people that I

01:15:28.900 - 01:15:44.780

wouldn't have met otherwise, so that has been amazing. And I also worked with Musiqa this year, I got the commission so I had a piece performed at the Contemporary Arts Museum in Houston.

01:15:45.490 - 01:15:57.470

Yeah, I've been super fortunate and gotten a lot of opportunities in Houston. And yeah, I'm super, super happy that I made a choice to come here. Yeah! What's your favorite thing about the city?

01:15:57.470 - 01:16:14.510

You know… not the weather, for sure . I really, really love all the parks that Houston has. I had no idea—first of all, I had no idea this city was going to be this big.

01:16:15.280 - 01:16:30.230

But within this big city, you can always find some sort of peace if you need it. And especially during the pandemic, I went to parks all the time, I went to Hermann Park, I went to Memorial Park, Menil Park,

01:16:30.680 - 01:16:40.780

all these parks are just so amazing. And also, I really like the food culture here. Like, the food culture is huge!

01:16:40.780 - 01:16:58.540

And there's always something interesting and new to try in Houston, so I really like that too, yeah. Yeah, one of the great pluses of urban diversity is a rich food culture, definitely!

01:16:59.740 - 01:17:17.170

Yeah, awesome. So, how would you say the classical music scene in Houston, or the art music scene in Houston—what stands out to you about it?

01:17:17.270 - 01:17:28.860

How is it different from the art music circles you've been part of before? Yeah, so first of all, it's very different from the scenes that I was in in New York or LA. New York and LA,

01:17:29.960 - 01:17:47.280

they're both already very much established places. So sometimes it can be pretty difficult to because there are so many musicians, so many composers… Sorry, I think you broke up a little bit.

01:17:48.260 - 01:18:10.740

Sorry, could you start from— Yes! And can I bring my charger? One sec . All right, sure, yeah. Yeah… okay, I'm back. Yeah, so…

01:18:11.580 - 01:18:27.900

Yeah, you can start from—you said it was very difficult in LA in New York to… So, New York and LA are already very much established cities that—and also, it's a very—they're both like

01:18:27.970 - 01:18:45.280

artistic cities. There are a lot of musicians, there are a lot of composers, it's everywhere. So sometimes it can be challenging to crack into that circle, make yourself noticeable. But Houston is a growing city, so I feel like there

01:18:45.280 - 01:19:00.060

are a lot of new opportunities for young composers and young musicians. And even just having this DaCamera music opportunity—that was amazing, because I got to share my music with audiences that I wouldn't normally

01:19:01.460 - 01:19:19.890

interact with. So in DaCamera, I worked with this school called The Hub in Houston, and it's a school for neurodivergent students. And I wrote a school song for them this year, which was super fun!

01:19:19.890 - 01:19:34.420

I got to meet these students, and they talked about what the school meant for them, and what friendship and, you know, all these really awesome things that I wouldn't normally talk about with classical listeners, classical music listeners.

01:19:35.060 - 01:19:52.210

So, Houston has given me opportunities that I would not have received elsewhere, and I really, really like that. Yeah, and also I think people have less judgments about what they want to hear or what

01:19:52.290 - 01:20:05.990

they're expecting to hear. Because everyone's just still curious, and everyone's very—I don't know, excited about this new growth of music and culture, and… And so I feel

01:20:06.400 - 01:20:24.420

like it's been more supportive than ever, and it's been super encouraging to be in Houston. Yeah. Yeah… Um, so what was your—so once the pandemic

01:20:24.460 - 01:20:39.630

began, how did your life—how did your life change for you, and how did you live your life during quarantine? And now that we're coming out of it, how do you feel? Yeah, it's crazy.

01:20:39.760 - 01:20:50.750

So actually, when the virus just began in China, I was actually in Asia. I was in Japan, I was in Tokyo for a performance.

01:20:51.880 - 01:21:06.880

And I started hearing about this virus. And then I spent a few days in Korea, and the news was going crazy about this. So I was already scared starting January.

01:21:07.380 - 01:21:22.030

And I brought a bunch of masks, just in case, and I was telling my friends about it. But people wouldn't really believe me that it was super serious. I mean, I also didn't think that it was gonna come all the way here, you know?

01:21:23.300 - 01:21:35.590

But once the pandemic started, it was right around my birthday. I was out for my birthday, and I got the email from school that school was going to

01:21:35.940 - 01:21:55.160

get canceled. And yeah. I mean, because that was my first year in Houston, it was really hard to make the adjustment of locking myself in. I didn't really feel like I experienced the city

01:21:55.540 - 01:22:12.950

enough, I was just getting comfortable with being in this new environment. But yeah, I spent a lot of time, of course, at home. I started cooking more, then I gained weight, so I started working out

01:22:12.950 - 01:22:31.460

hard. Me too—I didn't work out, actually, but I did gain a lot of weight Yeah, I've written a lot of solo pieces for my friends all over the world, for them to have premieres online.

01:22:33.770 - 01:22:57.460

So I've somehow gotten even more active with the writing and performances during the pandemic—which, you know, it's

01:22:58.170 - 01:23:16.590

been good! I've been busy 317 class in the fall semester. And in my class,

01:23:18.070 - 01:23:46.770

every morning, we have one person share what they like to listen to. I thought it was a fun way to get to know each other! Chelsea did that too last semester!

01:23:48.760 - 01:24:04.770

Yeah! Well, I started it, and she learned—we're very good friends, we're very, very close friends.

01:24:07.520 - 01:24:26.320

So that's one of my favorite things about that class. You know, I got to learn a lot about—a lot of new music that I

01:24:26.880 - 01:24:54.440

didn't know about. And one of the students shared Esperanza Spalding.

01:24:56.060 - 01:25:11.810

And, oh my gosh, her music is so cool! It's like jazz, but also she sings, she plays bass.

01:25:12.130 - 01:25:34.500

It's very interactive, and I really, really like her music, so I've been listening a lot to

01:25:35.340 - 01:25:52.770

that. Um, I love this band from Australia called Hiatus Coyote. They've been my favorite, favorite, musical influence for a very

01:25:53.850 - 01:26:13.770

long time. They're coming up with a new album very soon, which I'm very

01:26:15.240 - 01:26:30.890

excited about. And Bill Evans and Chet Baker, they've been a huge influence for me, especially for harmonic

01:26:30.910 - 01:26:44.710

writing. I love how Bill Evans voices his chords, and also—like, they're just really beautiful, you know? I really love their music. I love bossa nova, I love Jobim—a lot of jazz influence

01:26:45.710 - 01:26:58.420

too. And then I—I've always loved French music. I love Ravel, Ravel is definitely one of my favorite composers. I love Dutilleux too, for all the textural and gestural things that he

01:26:59.000 - 01:27:09.490

does in his music. I also really—I used to listen to more operas too. I love Puccini, like, melodic writing, you can't beat

01:27:09.900 - 01:27:24.970

Puccini, he just does it the best. Yeah, and of course, I come from a piano background, so I listen to a lot of piano composers too, like Rachmaninoff, Liszt.

01:27:25.010 - 01:27:38.580

I also love Faure. A lot of French influences too, like Satie and Poulenc. Yeah, cool! Um, what about any contemporary composers that

01:27:39.090 - 01:27:53.560

you really like or influence on you? So, I really, really love the music of Esa-Pekka Salonen. Yeah, his piano concerto was on for three months straight for me.

01:27:53.750 - 01:28:07.020

Like, I love his music. And I would say the music that I listened to the most is by Michael Torke. Michael Torke's music has been a huge influence for me, I love how— I can hear that, I think.

01:28:07.210 - 01:28:17.890

Yeah, I do see that! Yeah, his music mostly utilizes triadic harmonies, you know? But he does it in a way that's so different and

01:28:18.020 - 01:28:33.740

organic, and he's always just so on point about timing of events. And I really love his craft of composition. And he has a new piece that was recorded last year, I

01:28:34.610 - 01:28:53.740

think?—called "Being." I listened to that, yeah! Such a great piece! I love, love it. Yeah, I love his music, and I really like David Del Tredici. He also writes very fun tonal music that's kind of

01:28:53.880 - 01:29:06.510

unusual, especially for the time that he was living—like, people were writing much more atonal music, but he really stuck with his own belief and sound world. And of course, I love music by

01:29:06.510 - 01:29:21.250

my teachers, like, Beaser is a great, great composer, his brass music is amazing. Yes, Robert Beaser. And yeah, of course Danielpour, his orchestra music is just wonderful.

01:29:21.410 - 01:29:37.240

He's very good at orchestrating, and his understanding of orchestra is just unlike anybody else. And I've also gotten to—I've been super fortunate to meet and work with the composer Gabriela Lena Frank.

01:29:41.640 - 01:29:57.390

She's been a huge influence and inspiration for me. Gabriela Lena Frank just does so much more than just music. She's very active about diversifying compositional voices, and she actually created her own academy where she

01:29:58.490 - 01:30:14.590

invites composers from all over the world, with all different backgrounds, and she sort of creates this safe environment where you are welcome to express your music the way that you want, rather than thinking about how

01:30:14.590 - 01:30:29.430

it's going to be received—which I think is super, super important, and not always done in these music schools. Like, you always have to think about how it's going to be received. And yeah, her music is influenced by a lot of

01:30:29.570 - 01:30:47.490

backgrounds that she comes from, she has a very multicultural background too. And just working with her has been incredible, just really eye-opening too. This… composition world can be not the most encouraging for

01:30:47.490 - 01:31:02.900

somebody like me, but she is somebody like me, you know? She's a female composer, and she's multicultural background. So yeah, just seeing her and how she uses her influence

01:31:03.010 - 01:31:21.030

as a composer in the most positive way in the world, that's been very important to me, yeah. Um, I think I have—I think we'll be done by six

01:31:21.600 - 01:31:42.300

or so. But I have a few—three more questions for you, and they're all pretty broad. So what's your compositional process, for lack of a better word? I know you mentioned

01:31:42.300 - 01:31:53.790

earlier that you often visualize something before you start working on a piece of music. But yeah, could you take me through how you usually write something? And of course, that might have changed with time.

01:31:54.100 - 01:32:07.810

But yeah, what's your process look like? So before writing anything, like I said earlier, I need to know what I'm writing about. So I'll usually come up with a title or an image that I'm writing about.

01:32:08.930 - 01:32:24.180

And then I think about the duration of the piece—usually, I know how long the piece is supposed to be, because commissions always come with a specific timeline. So let's say I have an eight minute piece that I have to write, then I think about

01:32:24.930 - 01:32:41.660

how I could divide this time in a way that's interesting, musically. So I'll think about the division and connection. And then, I always write from left to right.

01:32:42.940 - 01:32:59.250

I start in the beginning—some people do collages of music, and they put it together. But that just doesn't seem to work for me. So I would have maybe a few musical ideas that I come up with by improvising on the piano, and I

01:32:59.250 - 01:33:14.680

would write it down. And I would start from there and then see what happens. A lot of the time, the plans that I made before I wrote the music don't work when I start writing music. But at some point, in your music, your piece

01:33:15.170 - 01:33:28.580

becomes this, like, living thing that—it gives you answers that you didn't know about. And so, I tend to follow those. Yeah, whatever the piece tells me.

01:33:28.630 - 01:33:44.010

And when I'm working with somebody—like a smaller ensemble, let's say a duo or something. Then I would send my music to the person before I finish it and see how

01:33:44.060 - 01:34:02.170

it sounds, and get feedback from them, like, "What's hard, what's not? What could be better?" You know, I—composing is such an isolating thing that whenever I can have this sort of interaction with other people, I always welcome that.

01:34:02.310 - 01:34:21.610

I love working with people in time. So yeah, I send my pieces to my friends and sometimes they'll tell me, "Ooh, this is not so good." Then "Hmm, what would be better?" And then I listen to their

01:34:21.710 - 01:34:37.200

advice. But yeah, I work, I mean— so, some people are very specific about where they write, how they write, and all these columns that they have to check before they do

01:34:37.370 - 01:34:55.490

it. But for me, I sit down and do it. I don't really have to plan it in a way that's very—yeah, detailed. I sit down and then I do it, and… yeah, it's fun.

01:34:55.650 - 01:35:06.730

I like composing! I think it's super fun. And also, I think it's a really interesting job, because I'm basically telling

01:35:07.480 - 01:35:22.900

people how they should spend this much time listening to something. I'm dictating their time. And visual art is interesting, because you could spend years painting this thing, but people

01:35:23.000 - 01:35:36.210

could decide how long they're going to look at that painting. You know, it could be two seconds, it could be two hours. But music, I'm giving them exactly how long they should sit there for. So it's almost a selfish thing, I feel.

01:35:39.990 - 01:35:57.410

You know, it's like, "You're gonna listen to it for eight minutes, and you're gonna clap after" . That's an interesting way of looking at it, yeah! I remember you were saying earlier timing is something

01:35:57.840 - 01:36:16.470

you really try to hone with your music… It really is a unique medium for that reason, this dimension of time. So, what are some of your—what are a couple of your favorite compositions that you've done?

01:36:19.890 - 01:36:34.690

So actually, a few months ago, I had a string quartet premiere at the Moody Center. And it was called, "Can you stop the time? ." So during the pandemic, time has been a really interesting thing.

01:36:35.110 - 01:36:52.640

It almost feels like time has stopped, but it didn't. And the way that time was spent during it was super interesting—like, we would sit in front of Zoom classes and Zoom whatever for hours and hours. And those times, time would go so slowly,

01:36:53.420 - 01:37:09.470

you know? Like, a minute could be an hour. But then human interaction was so rare that any time that I got to spend time with my friends, it would go so fast. So I wrote a piece about how the time is always

01:37:11.550 - 01:37:26.580

going at this rate—the same pace, but the way that we perceive it is so different depending on the texture and the gesture and how you spend the time. So that piece was a really, really fun piece for me to write for.

01:37:26.580 - 01:37:42.190

And also because I really wanted to write a string quartet for years and years, and somehow I never got to until this year. I somehow got a ton of string quartet commissions, so I wrote two, and I'm writing two

01:37:42.190 - 01:37:59.910

more this year. Yeah, that was my second string quartet I wrote this year, and that was very fun. And I would say— so "Bird Up," the orchestra piece that I mentioned earlier, that piece is a really

01:37:59.950 - 01:38:16.240

special piece for me, because, like I mentioned before, I don't really have a chamber or orchestra music background. So orchestra music was always something that I was really, really scared of writing. It's intimidating, you know? Like, you write this thing all by yourself, and then you

01:38:16.240 - 01:38:34.460

bring it to the stage, and there are hundreds of people, and, you know, you have no idea how it's gonna go! And before "Bird Up," I had a few orchestra pieces that I wrote, but I was never quite satisfied with them, it wasn't

01:38:34.630 - 01:38:50.110

exactly what I wanted. And so for this piece—this was the first time that I turned a piano piece into an orchestra piece. That really helped me, because when I have a piano piece

01:38:50.200 - 01:39:04.620

already, I know how the notes are gonna go, I know the rhythm, I know how the time is going to be spent, so I just have to think about the color and the orchestration aspect of the music. But having said that, orchestra speaks at a much

01:39:05.070 - 01:39:15.120

different rate than a piano. Piano is very—it's almost a percussion instrument, you know? You hit it, and then you get the note, and you get it right away. But orchestra, they're very

01:39:15.120 - 01:39:25.950

good at sustaining. But delivering something so fast, it takes time. So I would have to repeat things a lot, or expand some of the sections.

01:39:26.360 - 01:39:41.050

The first piano version was maybe three minutes long, and the orchestra piece is about like eight minutes, I think? Eight, nine minutes. So having done that piece made me feel that maybe I

01:39:41.110 - 01:39:53.030

could write for orchestra too. And I had just so much fun working on that piece. It was about the Eric Andre Show, which I love. And I wrote that piece in LA, and during that

01:39:53.030 - 01:40:11.850

time, I really missed being in New York. So writing that piece almost reminded me of being there and what it was like, and that was read and performed at the Aspen Music Festival. And just working with the orchestra and the conductor, that

01:40:11.960 - 01:40:28.040

was a great experience for me. That piece has been performed several times afterwards, soyeah! Yeah, right. Okay, so I think the last thing that I want to ask is

01:40:29.610 - 01:40:49.190

do you mind sharing one thing you love about yourself? About myself? So something that I really love about myself is that I am adventurous, and I'm not

01:40:49.300 - 01:41:03.470

afraid of going somewhere else and trying something new. And I think that it's super exciting to see the world and see what it has to offer

01:41:06.950 - 01:41:18.000

to me. And in this musical environment, I feel that the world has so much more to offer to me, but I just haven't seen it enough.

01:41:20.290 - 01:41:34.530

Yeah, I'm not afraid of packing up two bags and showing up somewhere and figuring it out from there. And I've done that! And when I see other people who have grown up in one house, and

01:41:34.650 - 01:41:47.950

then went to college this way, they're very afraid of going somewhere else and living somewhere else. But yeah, I'm not like that. And also, I try to be very positive

01:41:49.290 - 01:42:03.260

in any sort of circumstances. I always think that things are gonna work out the way that it should.

01:42:06.210 - 01:42:22.870

So yeah, I'm pretty great in that way too . Now that you've sat through two of these, you know all about me!

01:42:23.010 - 01:42:41.600

Yeah, yeah… I really enjoyed—really enjoyed talking with you over the past couple of hours and getting to know you. Yeah, thank you so much for your time,

01:42:44.750 - 01:43:00.220

it's great to, yeah, it's just great to learn all this stuff about you. And let me send you the link for the National Theatre performance. Yeah, I was trying to—I tried to find it online because it seemed really interesting, and I just couldn't, so…

01:43:00.570 - 01:43:21.690

thank you so much! It's a long piece, it's like 20 minutes long. And there are some good parts, but as soon as you start, you'll see this oboe-trumpet thing that ruined everything for me. Yeah, so I don't have that whole piece I posted, but I

01:43:21.720 - 01:43:43.360

think I have clips of it somewhere. Gotcha! Alright, yeah. Well, okay, have a good

01:43:47.840 - 01:44:00.550

rest of your evening! Thank you!