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Today is September 2nd, 2020, my name is Ann Shi, and I'm with the Houston Asian American Archive. Today we have inte- we have interview with Mustafa Tameez, from the– the President of the Outreach Strategists LLC.

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We are very honored to be interviewing you. How are you today? Good. Thanks for having me. Thank you. So to start, can you tell us when and where were you born?

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I was born in Karachi, Pakistan in 1969. Great. Can you share with us some of your childhood memories? You know, I grew up, you know, of a middle class family in Pakistan, and we,

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you know, we had a big extended family. So I remember like my memories are of having a lot of people at the house. Going to a relative's home and having a lot of people all around us. And then when I was eight years old, my family

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migrated to Queens, New York. And so I was eight when we first got on a plane, pretty much sold everything we have like a lot of immigrants and, and moved here and I was the youngest.

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I have an older brother and older sister. So when we when we, you know, when we were planning to come to the United States, there was a sense of excitement around the house.

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We had finally gotten on the immigration list, and we had very little time to, you know, to think through and plan. I remember there was just a lot of excitement around the house. I remember getting on Pan-Am, which was an airline back then;

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and– and you know, you dressed up to fly. We got in the plane and landed in JFK Airport in New York and back then my cousins who we were going to stay with for the first several months, during the summer, lived in

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Brooklyn. And so my uncle picked us up and started to use back roads to get to their place in Brooklyn. And it was a huge shock because the anticipation of coming to the United States

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was immense in our family. We were so excited and we, you know, as a child, I thought this was a land of milk and honey; it would be everything that we see on television, and then all of a sudden you arrive, land in JFK, and you're

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taking the back roads into Brooklyn. And you see, again it's 1978, so you saw some, you know, dilapidated buildings, you saw some buildings that were on fire, you saw trash on some of the streets.

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And, you know, in my mind as a child looking out the windows going like, “Where is the America I saw on television? What was this? I thought this was a land of honey!” And so we got to the– to the apartment

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where my, my cousins were until we were going to share this apartment with them. And our house back home was so much bigger. And now we're in this kind of

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tiny place, and it's the neighborhood is just a little bit rundown. And so it was just like just a, as a child, I remember, I was excited to see my cousins. But I, part of me was like, I wish they came to where we were

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because we would have so much more room to play. That's just some of the childhood memories. That's really interesting. And I'm sure it's a little bit of a traumatic experience too for you

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as a young child, back then as well. Do you…? Yeah, other things I've talked about, like I remember starting school, and when I started school I didn't

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speak English at all. Or very little. And so I remember being in fourth grade and– and when I was in Pakistan, um, you know, I was an asthmatic as a child, so my parents kept me home a lot. So I was a couple of grades

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behind. I was in second grade in Pakistan. When I moved here, according to my age, I was put in fourth grade. And, you know, so I was, didn't speak English. No, and so I remember walking around school, I remember

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being in class and just being very afraid, because I didn't know what people were saying. And, and people were just seemed angry and rushed. And everybody was so much bigger and not just a, you know, not just the

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teachers and the adults, but the kids were so much bigger. So for those first six months, being in school was frightening. It was just, you know, I couldn't understand what people were saying. I remember being feeling

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like, I was pushed around as I was going through the hallways in the school. I felt tiny in this giant building with these big people everywhere who didn't smile a lot, who, who when they laughed, it looked like they're

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laughing at me. And it was– it was a very you know, and you know, I would tell my mother who was walking me to a school, “I don't want to go here. I don't want to do this.” And she was like, “You got to go to school.

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Get in there. There you go.” And the first six months of being in school and in PS17 in Queens, New York was a difficult time and, and I've

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always from that experience, I've always had a soft spot for people who struggled with the language who may not understand because I experienced that myself as a child just not not knowing English and trying to move

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around and participate and learn, and just being always afraid of not knowing what was going on around me. Oh, definitely sounds like, I'm sure many of the immigrants would share that kind of experience. You

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described the neighborhood that was a little rundown. Can you share some more memories about that neighborhood? Well, you know, even when we moved out of Brooklyn, we came to Queens, we got our apartment of our own.

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You know, those five of us. My parents had three children. We rented a one bedroom apartment. You know, if I had to guess it'd be less than 600, 650 square feet.

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Right. It was a fairly small apartment. Had a, had, you know, one, like a living den area, had a small kitchen, then had one bedroom and it was five of us. All, all

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the kids slept on the floor. In the, you know, living room den, and my parents had the bedroom. We, all of us shared one bathroom. And then for– for periods on, you

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know, for four months at a time, we would have relatives that would come visit. Sometimes my, my father's brothers had all later on came to

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the US, they would stay with us, you know, with their family so the now, our entire family was in that living room on the floor at night; and we had another family living in the bedroom, and all of us shared the same small bathroom and the same small kitchen.

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So we live like that probably for five years in a very small apartment and in a fairly confined area. And so during the wintertime and which was also new to us, you know, it'd be cold, the heaters would be to get too hot or too cold.

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You know you couldn't go outside and so you were kind of locked up with each other, kind of like this COVID. I think I was prepared for COVID as a young childhood. But the...

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You know, although like, the... it was a tough time, just being in small place, you know, sharing a lot with other people, I don't remember it as a... it was still also fun and it was also exciting.

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And I remember my father, you know, my father had two jobs as, as long as I could remember, for you know, he pretty much had a full time job and a part time job, or two full time jobs. So it was always very, you know, he just didn't have— he just wasn't around much because of that.

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But whenever we had time, we would go to the Queens Botanical Garden or we would go to watch a movie or we would go do things together as a family so I just have really fun fond memories.

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As a child, as a kid, you don't really know steps and income, you're just kind of know your surroundings. And, and we're very fortunate to have each other but, you know, I went— my brother and I went back to the apartment where we grew up, and we

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looked at the building and we're like, “oh my god!” This is– this is as big as the kitchen is as big as a, one of the closets in one— in any one of our homes. And, and just, you know, like, six, seven,

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and two families sharing one bathroom in a very small place is– is really an immigrant experience. We, you know, and we started literally all over again, and my father came in his, you know, mid 40s.

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And he started his life all over again, both professionally and in a new environment. So it was, it was tough on him. It was really, really tough on him.

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Wow, the description of your old apartment reminds me of that Tenement Museum. I'm not sure if you visited before. It's also like, yeah, definitely very, very tiny and sh- shares a lot of immigrant stories.

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Can you share with us some of the games that you and your, your brothers and sisters played during your childhood? Well, I was doing I was youngest, my brother is six years older than I am. My sister is about four years

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older than I am so I was the youngest and the… I think the advantage the youngest child has is that you know everybody's your parent, right? Like the– the brothers and sisters mom and dad, everybody's looking out for

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you. So you really do get the nurturing and the benefit of being the youngest, and I think I— very fortunate to have very caring brothers, sisters, and parents. So we just had a, you know, my memories are are fun

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things that were done for me. My brother starts work when he was 17 years old he— I was. He worked very hard. My entire family was you know, everybody was working because it took all those

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paychecks to make enough money to pay for rent, pay for food, pay for basic necessities. It wasn't you couldn't, you know, you lived on, you know, my father had two jobs, my brother had a job, my mom had a job.

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So it was, it was... took those four salaries to basically make ends meet. And so I spent a lot of time by myself. I'm of the generation that's

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considered a lock key… lock... call those lock... “latchkey kids”? I was kind of a latchkey kid, so I I watched a lot of television growing up because that was my babysitter so to speak, right.

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And it was a way just to kind of although in your small place, it was a way just to kind of escape and be in another world. You know, learn a lot about, learned a lot of the language in watching

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television. I learned a lot about the culture in watching television. And you grow up, you're in the media world, you realize that television has such a big impact, both negative and positive. But we don't realize for people that come from other

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places television becomes a window into America, for good or bad. And so I, you know, I learned a lot of a lot of things about American culture watching TV, watching all sorts of shows,

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sitcoms and things. Um, did you also kind of learn English that way through television? Yeah, you know, like I, you know, you come in and I was in fourth grade, I was already behind because I

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was in second grade overseas and came here in fourth grade, didn't speak English. So I was in what they call ESL classes, so “English as a Second Language”. But, you know, it wasn't a great neighborhood.

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Therefore, it wasn't a great school. And so I felt a lot of the stuff that I've learned, you know, in language probably learned from television learning schools, just– just do it. But after the first six months, I had some much more, better

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and better understanding of the language. But it took another, you know, year or two to, to be comfortable with the language. And I remember in you know, one of the– one of the

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most vivid memories I have is, you know, during school, you do these eye exams and went to do the, you know, got in the line in the gym, you know, got to the line person says read the chart, read the line that you can read, the

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lowest line you can read. And I said "E", the person goes, "Okay, yeah, read the line, you know, read the line that you can read, the lowest line you read." I would say, "E." They realized that I needed

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glasses, I just couldn't see. So it would send you back home with a note and you know, went to the optometrist or whatever, and we got– we got glasses, and I remember coming back to school, the first day had classes, and I

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started looking around the school with a whole different view because I could see that the red light wasn't a red light, it was an exit sign and I was like "Exit!" Right?

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Because it was, it used to look like just a red light, but it wasn't a red light it said the word exit, and I just couldn't read it. And so I just went around school that first day just seeing things really for the first time right?

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Like sitting in a classroom and actually being able to see the board. And so you forget sometimes that as a child you know, those– those exams in school of eyes and physical health and those type of things really matter, because as far

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as I was concerned before that, I didn't realize, I didn't you know, I didn't need glasses until somebody actually did a test. And as soon as I put the glasses on the world just looked different. I was able to see the board, I was

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able to see stuff and then also people treat you’re different. You know, you're a kid with the glasses and you're young and you're Asian, you must be smart. So all sudden, I got in better classes, I got in better stuff.

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And I'm dyslexic, which I learned much, much later in life. But back then I just thought, I just had a... I was a product of a bad education and the New York City public systems.

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But really what was that they never caught the fact that I had, you know, that I had a slight case of dyslexia. So I went through my, you know, my years of school, not understanding why I can't do certain things.

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Although because I was well behaved, and I wear glasses, I was always in better classes because when you're in a big school system that behavior is an important element of how people, how teachers treat you.

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You know, I look like a model student, therefore, I was just kind of passing grades, year after year. Although there are certain things I just wasn't able to do well. What's the demographic like in your school back then?

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It was African American, Latino, mostly Puerto Rican Americans, because they, you know, we're in New York. So it was a fairly mixed school. It wasn't a very, it wasn't a very good school.

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It was a tough school. You know, like I you know, I learned at a very early age, somebody looks at you the wrong way, you just get in a fight, fight, fight, fight, fight, fight, fight fight, and it took years to,

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you know, to– to get rid of that the high school, finally I just got a lot better at that. But at an early age, it was basically saying, look, you just because, you're just fighting for your life.

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And so I just learned like you just can't, you had to fight for yourself. And so it was up in that young age of, was a difficult time if I went back and saw the different parts of it. But I

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certainly didn't feel that way, because of the– the family, the extended family, the people that were around me, you know that, you know, just there was a safety net that I felt and I think that that really was incredibly

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important growing up. Well, thank you, Mr. Tameez for sharing such like personal and heartwarming memories of yours. Can you also share how, um, how your parents,

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like, what are some of value say your parents emphasized in your upbringing? Well, I think that, that the one of the advantages that immigrant families have, is that we know what good looks like, you know.

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When my parents, you know, were in Pakistan, they were upper middle class. ... expectation that you would go to school and you would learn. There was an expectation that to

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succeed and work hard, you know, we there was a, there was a network of family people that were your surrogate parents, my sister and brother or my surrogate parents. When my parents weren't around, there was

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always somebody else, watching me, keeping an eye on me, telling me, “Do this, don't do that.” “Why you're doing this?” All of that, you know, allows you to be successful. And sometimes, I know the people that were in

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my school, that that, you know, I joke sometimes that if we had a high school reunion, we would probably need some parole officers to come along because there's a lot of people that just didn't, you know, didn't follow a

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traditional path towards success, because they just, you know, they didn't have the benefit that I did. They didn't have the benefit of that family structure, that people, that even though we struggled financially, even

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though my dad worked two jobs, even though, you know, we didn't have the best school and education early in life, we had that, you know, what does... what is the expectation? Right? The expectation was to do well, right?

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So even though, you know, I struggled with dyslexia, unknowingly and struggled with school stuff, you always worked harder to overcome those things. Because the expectation was, you know what we're here to succeed,

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we sac— my parents' sacrifice for us to be here to succeed. So there was not an, there was not a— there were those high expectations. And that helps because it allows you to try harder and do more.

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Until we're really, you know, I think that if I was any other ethnic background, and I was in that school, and I didn't have this, and for some reason didn't have the family background that I– that I had, that you know, my

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life would have turned out very different. And not that different than others that were in school with me. So I really was fortunate in that, of having that family support that a lot of times people don't, especially when you're

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going through first, second, third generation of that environment, because it's– it breaks up families. It's incredibly difficult. It's a– it's a harder life.

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And as Americans sometimes we don't realize that I mean, the advantages my– my children have, are real and tangible. And so we try to remind them of that in our family values that we are fortunate.

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By the grace of God that if you, if, you know, if, if, if for some reason, we didn't have that support structure, and you're in the same schools, you could– you can easily fall into that– that trap.

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Wow. Does your family in your siblings live close to you nowadays? Yeah, my brother, who lives in New Jersey. So we do a lot but my mom lives with me. My parents retired

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my father. Because I had asthma, we needed health insurance. My dad took the civil service exams and became part of the New York City Police Department. He was part of the traffic and orphan division, and retired after

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18 years of that. And he, you know, after he retired, they had planned to move back to Pakistan. And he actually, you know, was born there and went back and realize that, you know, his friend, the country

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had moved on, and he hadn't. And so we spent six months, maybe a little less there, realized it just wasn't going to work out. Move back to Queens, New York. It took me six months taking the kids up there, take my wife up

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there and saying, “come live with us, come live with us.” I finally convinced him to come, come live with us. So in 1999, my parents moved in with me. And my, my dad died in 2010.

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And my mom is still with us. We're blessed and fortunate to have her with us. So in our, in our kind of like, nuclear family, you know, my mom lives with us. And we bought the house next door, my mother-in-law lives next door.

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So we took the fence out in the middle. So our kids get to go back and forth between the two houses. They have their grandmother's close to them. And so we're really again fortunate and the beneficiaries of that

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family structure, that they've grown up with a lot of eyes on them, you know, like their parents or someone I engage with them, but then they have their grandmothers and then they have their extended family.

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So that's an incredible advantage and blessing for– for anybody. So we're very, I'm grateful for that. Does your family practice any religion?

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We, we are Muslim, and Muslim by birth. And religion is something that's not static, either you're going towards it or going away from it, and so at different points in my life and more religious rhetoric, but I've

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always been very spiritual about it. And again, it's a– I take a lot of pride in my identity as a Muslim American. We, we struggle with life, like, like all parents about how much

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religion, how little religion, how do we build community, how do we engage others? How do we, how do we build a broader sense of community? How do we get our kids to participate in the civic activities that we

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participate with? But for the most part, I would say we're very fortunate in that, we have a really good and large South Asian Muslim community in Houston. You know when people say Houston is one of the most diverse metropolitan area, we are

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the beneficiaries of that. Right? It, you know, so whether it's food or whether it's faith, or whether it's community, whether it's family, a lot of it is all here.

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And that's why I just love the city. One, I feel very fortunate to be an American. But I feel even more fortunate to be an American who lives in Houston. This is a, if I had to choose any place in the

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world to live right now, it would be Houston, Texas. I would not give up Houston for anything. I think it is the— I think it offers the best in every way, shape or form.

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But we don't have the aesthetics. We don't have the mountains. We don't have the, you know, the aesthetics at times. But we certainly have an incredible

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community that all of us benefit from, and all of us have a role in giving back to that community and building it. Yeah, that's definitely a nice, nice segway to my, our next part of the conversation about—

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when did you move to Houston? I moved to Houston in 1994. And when I moved to Houston, I used to work for an advertising business in New York, and you get to a certain point in your career and people say, “What do you–

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what do you want?” I said, “some warmer climate and a better tax structure.” I was 24. I was doing really well. But the taxes in New York’s really high. And the weather was cold.

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We just had 18 snowstorms in a row. And so I was thinking West, I was thinking California, I was thinking someplace pretty; and I was offered Houston.

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And I reluctantly went like "Okay, I'll go try it for six months. See what happens." And I came here for six months. A year later, I met my wife. We got married, we had kids.

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And the six months have turned into a much— I don't know what— 30 years now or something like that. And what did you study in college? I went, I started in Baruch College in New York.

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I was an accounting major. I was horrible, horrible at it. I went to New York College and went to Niagara College, of course, because I work full time during the day, and I went to night school.

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So I went to a lot of the public university system in New York. And again, I didn't know I was dyslexic, so I just kept on going, trying, trying, trying. Wasn't, you know, when it came down to writing in those blue books and the exams, I struggled because people couldn't read my

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handwriting; and you know, it– it was a frustrating environment. I was 27, finally realized, I saw a sign here in Houston that said, you know, you know, it was like, "Are you dyslexic?

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Or do you have trouble reading certain things?" I wonder what sign it was– was. It was one of those little small street signs. And so I saw it, I was like, “Yeah, and I had a little time.” So I just pulled into that parking lot.

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And I walked into the building, like, "Oh, yeah, we give these exams for people." And so I took like that, I, to set up the appointment, I know, which was like a week later or something, went back and took that test, and they say, "Oh, you're dyslexic, and

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you have to do these things to get better." And it finally explained to me, of all the years of just being having a typical— I mean, English is tough. But for me, like learning Spanish or learning Arabic, which I tried for a time was just next to

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impossible. I just couldn't figure out why I can't get this down and when it boils down. Is that with English? I may not see all the words, but I know enough to know what they are, and my mind just

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picks it up. But when you're looking at foreign language and you're missing letters, it just doesn't work. I also had issues with, just kind of remembering, like numbers.

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But all those things, you know what, what neat part about the challenges I face have just got the technology and other things in life. It's just become that just made more and more important.

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You don't have to remember numbers now because you have a smartphone that it's got all your numbers, right. You don't have to. You know, I've always had different support mechanisms. I run a big communication business.

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So it's like here- here you are dyslexic, winning a big communication. So I dictate a lot of things now. I write quite a bit, but a lot of it is through dictation or speaking into a microphone and

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recording things and having other people type them out. So I know the technology has helped a great deal. And then also just whatever your you know, your body and your mind is geared for whatever, whatever is lacking the other parts of us

00:29:08.640 - 00:29:20.270

make up for it. And so over the years, I've been very fortunate in that both the people in my life, the technology that has, has really helped me compensate for what I lack.

00:29:24.290 - 00:29:40.410

That's wonderful to hear that you've really strived and struggled through the challenges. And have you come across some, any mentors or people who have helped you to achieve that, or overcome those

00:29:40.590 - 00:29:57.220

challenges? You know, the wonderful thing about Houston is that, there are so many different people. There's so many different people that have come in life, that have helped that have been mentors that you know, take you by the

00:29:57.270 - 00:30:12.030

hand and show you go do this or go do that. And so real fortunate in that and then the other part is that you know, when you're going through it, they don't really feel like struggles, right? They— I've had four hip

00:30:12.030 - 00:30:29.810

surgeries. I've spent like over a month like six weeks on a wheelchair, I've been in hospital for a month. I've been in crutches for about a year, I've walked with a cane for three to five years, have chronic pain for a very

00:30:29.810 - 00:30:44.600

long time. That's on one side. And the other side, I've been in a profession that I can work out of the house for a year and still make a living. I have a great family support structure that's kind of, walked through a lot of the

00:30:44.830 - 00:31:00.320

surgeries and the visits to the hospital, and the rehab and all that stuff that goes along with it. You know, I walked with a cane for a very long time. And, you know, in Houston, somebody walking with a cane is like

00:31:00.320 - 00:31:12.600

you just become, you know, people think you're just more distinguished. I don't know what it is, but people hold the door for you, people help you. So, you know, the things that I think

00:31:13.360 - 00:31:27.250

if you just see them as— here are the challenge. We don't realize a lot of times, what I don't realize a lot of times in the midst of it, is the support mechanism that we, we often also have that gets us through it.

00:31:27.800 - 00:31:41.760

Right. And so, when you ask me about role models, you know, like, my wife is just so phenomenal. And she I think I probably learned more things from her than anybody else that I've ever encountered or any teacher. So, you

00:31:41.760 - 00:31:52.400

know, the having, we've been married now for 25 years. you know, I'm 51 years old. So the, you know, half,

00:31:52.630 - 00:32:06.650

I've been married half my life, and the person who's had more impact on my life, and how I think and how I work and what I do and the kind of parent I am is a lot of it is from her.

00:32:06.840 - 00:32:21.510

So I, you know, I'm glad she's not watching this because I might not have said it if she was here, but she really is my role model in a way. She– she is the glue that keeps not just our nuclear family, but our

00:32:21.510 - 00:32:29.180

extended family together. She's the one that calls people and ask like, “How are you doing? What's going on with you? I haven't heard from you in a long time.”

00:32:29.180 - 00:32:43.210

And then she's the one that says, “Oh, this friend is not doing well, so you need to go help her and we need to do this.” And so she drives all that communal affection in our household.

00:32:43.630 - 00:32:54.450

She's the one that we, you know, being in the profession that I'm in, prior to COVID, we just went to a lot of events and she would be the person that would find somebody who is sitting by themselves, and she would go sit with that person.

00:32:54.900 - 00:33:10.240

And then maybe a bunch of very influential, very powerful, very... people that have status, but her mind would go like, “That person's new and they're not, they don't feel like they belong…” So she would go pull them in. And that's just

00:33:10.550 - 00:33:25.590

change you know, being married to someone, I'm better human being for it. Wow that's definitely really heartwarming and romantic, to hear that, yeah. And just being lucky.

00:33:25.840 - 00:33:40.050

I mean, I just, you know, there are things in your life you realize that you really didn't have anything to do with, you just got lucky. And I just got lucky. Wow. And how did you meet her, you said you met her six months after...

00:33:40.430 - 00:33:53.070

When I moved here, my mother would— was very concerned that, you know, single guy and in a different city that she would send me to different people's homes that she knew and try to arrange stuff for me

00:33:53.070 - 00:34:06.180

and just none of it really worked out. And then one time she asked me to go somewhere, and she's trying to arrange this meeting with this young lady from one of the family. And just within in that party, I kind of saw

00:34:06.180 - 00:34:16.030

her and then we hit it off. And then we met and we, you know, like anything else. But we got married in three months. I think I saw her at this place and I was, you know, in a family environment, I was

00:34:16.030 - 00:34:27.240

like, “That's the person I'm going to marry.” Three months later, we were married. And to the chagrin of her family and everybody around who thought I was just absolutely a crazy person; they couldn't figure me out.

00:34:27.280 - 00:34:34.840

Right. They’re like, “He sells and works in advertising. Who does that? He's not a doctor. He's not an engineer. He's not a lawyer. What is this anyway?

00:34:35.150 - 00:34:50.260

Can he actually make a living doing this?” So it was big to-do, the fact that it wasn't a doctor or a lawyer. But the, the, you know, I just knew right away, I just knew I couldn't do better.

00:34:53.330 - 00:35:05.850

And how is the— How was your wedding if you would like to share? Big. Um, I mean, a big wedding, big family wedding. We had 600 people at our wedding.

00:35:07.870 - 00:35:23.110

We were related to like 500 probably, like, like we just you, you know, we were just we have a fairly large extended family. People came from around the country around the world. And it was hot.

00:35:23.280 - 00:35:35.890

We got married in July, so it was hot, and it was in Houston. So we were all sweating the entire time. It was raucous because, you know, our

00:35:35.890 - 00:35:47.370

South Asian weddings are multiple days. So there was a lot of that fun. And we took a million pictures. I think the stereotype about Asian Americans taking pictures is real.

00:35:48.200 - 00:36:04.550

In our family, we just all stand and taking pictures and pictures and pictures. I remember my face hurt because I just smiled so much for the pictures. And, and it was wonderful. And how many children do

00:36:04.550 - 00:36:19.460

you two have now? We have three boys. We have one that graduated at University of Virginia recently and is now heading to London to do a scholarship there, and then comes back to law school in– in next August.

00:36:20.010 - 00:36:38.050

And then we have an 11th grader and a 7th grader. Oh, sweet. Um, and next, I was just wondering if we can move on to the career side. So as you mentioned, you started in advertising, although you studied accounting

00:36:38.310 - 00:36:53.240

before. So I started, like my very first job was as a payroll administrator. So it's part of, kind of like, an accountant. And then from there, I worked in and that was a

00:36:53.270 - 00:37:04.370

company called Broadcast Arts. They used to do animated commercials, and so I worked on- on the administrative payroll side, but my job was to pay artists.

00:37:05.050 - 00:37:14.730

And we used to have animation artists. And so they were on what they call the 1099 payroll. So they would give us one invoice, we would pay them. So they did a lot of big projects.

00:37:15.490 - 00:37:29.000

And so that was a really fun time to be around very creative people. But you know, I did payroll and then from there I work for a company called Axel America which is a Dutch based chemical pharmaceutical company, and I was part of

00:37:29.050 - 00:37:40.470

the— I was hired as a payroll person but then moved into human resources, and I worked on executive compensation. And then later on worked in human resource information systems.

00:37:41.960 - 00:38:00.040

After that company, it kind of closed, you know, I stayed on in a consulting role because I was one of the few people that doing executive comp, knew all of the leadership people around the country. Started a small software business called IPS research, built it then

00:38:00.080 - 00:38:13.470

sold it within a year. I wasn't very good at it. But it was a, it was on image processing systems, which was kind of the thing back then. And after that I got into advertising for a decade. So I was in advertising sales for a long time.

00:38:14.340 - 00:38:28.700

And I started working in political campaigns. My first boss was Mayor Lee Brown. I worked on his campaign in 2001 when he was getting re-elected for Mayor of Houston.

00:38:30.090 - 00:38:44.830

And that's really how I kind of got into politics. It was Mayor Brown's race, and it was again going back to community. My job was to do Asian outreach. And I, you know, we identified, we took the voter file, identify

00:38:44.830 - 00:39:01.790

people by their surnames, and then did mail, phone, field, in language. You know, we said, you know, Chinese Americans, mail Mandarin, which we hope most likes. We did mail-in Vietnamese, we did

00:39:01.930 - 00:39:18.340

you know Muslims and Arabs and South Asians and different groups. So that became the impetus, from that the learning from that campaign, really started the idea of outreach strategist, which– which I started in 2004.

00:39:18.850 - 00:39:34.790

And then the– the thought behind it was that Texas had just become a majority minority state in 2004. And so, you know, in my mind, it was like, how do we get these the people, that aren't invited to the table, to the table?

00:39:34.790 - 00:39:46.470

And how do we get their voices heard? And so instead of being to me as an associate, it was Outreach Strategists, because it was we were focused on, how do we do community engagement in a way where we not

00:39:46.470 - 00:40:01.940

only just want ethnic standpoint; but from, from just as a as a state, as a city, as a region, how do we include, in the most diverse area, how do we include those voices and civic participation and public sector work? And

00:40:01.940 - 00:40:16.180

that's really how it started. So for a decade, I did more, more campaigns in the public sector. And then in 2009, Mayor White who I was campaign manager, political director for was running for governor. I wanted to get out of the camp- campaign

00:40:16.180 - 00:40:34.120

work. And so went more in the public sector work and sort of doing more consulting across the board. Do you still— do you see your skills in advertising being implemented in your campaign manager role later on? It'll look a lot of...

00:40:36.560 - 00:40:55.180

it used to be that in a lifetime, one would work for maybe five different companies. Now, in a lifetime, you end up working in five or six different industries, you know, so I think that's just the

00:40:55.180 - 00:41:09.130

work environment. The workforce has changed, you know, and in a very short amount of my work experience changed a great deal. People come from lots of different backgrounds, doing things

00:41:09.130 - 00:41:21.690

that, you know, evolve. And so for me, it's really evolved. Yeah, I was in advertising and advertising sales, which is a big part of politics. I was an ethnic marketing and you know,

00:41:21.750 - 00:41:38.360

doing this outreach type of work kind of fit nicely into it. And yeah, it has a big impact. So I've been in the- the industry, so 30 years, with politics, advertising, media for a long time. And so I've done, I've been fortunate to have done different parts of

00:41:38.760 - 00:41:57.580

it. And so, again, for each thing that I've done, I can go back and– and remember the different people that pulled me in and you, you often find that there's a part of you that wants

00:41:58.060 - 00:42:09.470

to take credit for your success. And if you really think hard, you realize it really was somebody else in your, in your life around you that pulled you into that success.

00:42:10.690 - 00:42:22.590

That yes, you have to put forward effort. Yes, you have to work hard. Yes, there may be some element of talent and different things. But the bigger thing is it's those relationships

00:42:23.730 - 00:42:38.910

and like kind of your role models, your mentors, your others who have, you know, allowed you to do what you've done. And so for me, you know, starting with my wife and many others along the way, I've just been blessed to have

00:42:39.550 - 00:42:49.590

great people in my life. By the way, in case you need to get up to answer a phone call, feel free to let me know, and I can pause the recording. Let me just check how we are on time.

00:42:49.590 - 00:42:59.370

How are we on time? Oh, we are about 45 minutes in. Okay. I think we're good. I'm just gonna turn this off because this keeps ringing.

00:43:00.370 - 00:43:15.610

Okay, good. Now it won't ring. Great. Can you share with us some of the memories about your mentor and how they inspired or challenged you? I'll tell you one person that's affiliated with Rice

00:43:15.870 - 00:43:30.220

that's just been a friend, mentor, somebody I look up to— Steven Kleinberg. I, you know, I don't get to spend as much time with him as I want to. But his, his work has had a great impact on what I do.

00:43:30.220 - 00:43:42.770

His leadership style has a great impact on you know, how I think about, you know, we all should be part of the community. His just genuine affection for people around him, is just phenomenal. Like I think I don't think we realized how fortunate we are to have Steven

00:43:42.860 - 00:43:52.930

Kleinberg in Houston. He could have, he could have been in any city and could have done his work in any city. But we were fortunate that he ended up doing it here because it meant such a great deal to the

00:43:53.020 - 00:44:06.440

development of Houston. And there's– and there's a number of people like him around town that have the social capital and convening power, to bring people together to get good things done.

00:44:06.590 - 00:44:24.220

And it really, you know, I think that Houston has— I've worked in other places, I do business in other cities— by far, I think that we have the kind of culture that has a, not just a can-do spirit, but a willingness to let new people be

00:44:24.220 - 00:44:35.260

involved and be engaged. I came in as an outsider, like many other people from other parts of the country. But I never felt like an outsider in Houston.

00:44:36.120 - 00:44:53.210

There was always someone who's willing to, you know, get you engaged in civic work or political work or even in business. Where in a lot of other places, there's barriers so that people want to know who your daddy is, or, you

00:44:53.210 - 00:45:07.020

know, which family you're part of, or, you know, how long have you been here. Houston just doesn't have that culture. It's an open welcoming— not just city but, a system that allows people to come from other places,

00:45:07.530 - 00:45:26.530

bring their skills and their assets, and– and do well here. And so you know, I think that the— that Steven talks about the– the Houston area survey, and the– how the- the opinions of Houstonians have moved over the– over

00:45:26.530 - 00:45:42.700

the decades. You know, it- it demonstrates that diversity works, right, because it works in Houston. And I think that more and more, we need those

00:45:43.850 - 00:46:03.570

examples, and we need leadership with, amongst people, to help show that, you know, pluralism, working multicultural environment is an asset, and not necessarily a burden. And Houston I think it has certainly been an asset here.

00:46:03.590 - 00:46:21.290

Absolutely. I'm very delighted to have you here in Houston with us too. And I'm also wondering, given your extensive and diverse career experiences from the media works to the campaign manager, and now having

00:46:21.590 - 00:46:39.970

your own company for the social outreach, Outreach, the Outreach Strategies that we'll see, I was just wondering how with your kind of chronic- chronic condition with dyslexia, how

00:46:40.860 - 00:46:54.260

did that— how did you overcome? And how did you kind of— if I may— strategize around your various skills and the condition that contribute to your success?

00:46:55.650 - 00:47:13.550

You know, I think that like we were talking earlier, like sometimes if the challenges you have you know what they are, but you don't realize how it actually helps you. And I think that in my case, you know, I have to be able to take a lot of content and absorb it very quickly.

00:47:14.900 - 00:47:29.970

And reading it makes it difficult, like it took— I'm a slow reader. But at the same time, I absorb a lot of content very quickly. I don't know how like the brain works. I have no idea, but I work on a lot of strategies

00:47:30.680 - 00:47:46.770

for different organizations and different environments, and I have to be able to quickly, for my clients and for the work that we do, to be able to connect the dots. And so, having dyslexia I think,

00:47:47.930 - 00:48:05.210

being able to then read, see all the words, is the ability to connect those dots. And so over time, your brain is just able to connect dots. And so if you're a strategy consultant, who has to look

00:48:05.210 - 00:48:21.340

at the different things that are happening, and say, what does this all mean? If your brain is just used to doing that, just for very simple task of just reading a one-page document, then it just gets trained to be able to take a lot of

00:48:21.370 - 00:48:37.980

different information from different sources and be able to, you know, synthesize that as something that's cogent. Right? So maybe my dyslexia has helped me that or, or something else, I don't know.

00:48:38.570 - 00:48:53.610

But, you know, in a way I can't imagine my life without it. Right? Because it's, it's brought me other skills and other people in my life to work

00:48:53.610 - 00:49:07.840

with. So I, you know, to be honest with you, I don't— I don't see it as a hindrance. I‚ it has– it has benefited me if that makes any sense.

00:49:07.930 - 00:49:20.920

And I know it probably doesn't, but it just like, I find that, you know, I live with chronic pain because of my hip surgeries for a very long time. Still do. Still, if I stand for a very long time; still, if I do something, you know, I feel it.

00:49:23.230 - 00:49:40.530

But that chronic pain has really taught me a lot of discipline. I can get through very difficult things. Because I, you know, my pain, my physical pain has taught me that I have a great capacity to be able to get through things that are difficult,

00:49:41.300 - 00:49:52.190

because I got through it; and I still get through it every day. That's a lot of inspirations and powerful statements. And thank you so much for that.

00:49:52.540 - 00:50:07.200

So, next I was just wondering to touch on your community engagement and contributions, so you've been advocating for the Transportation Advocacy Group, and then you've been involved with the Asia Society in

00:50:07.200 - 00:50:25.930

a number of talks and speeches, and in the Unity National Bank. Can you tell us how, like the kind of, what are the issues and what are the priorities that you choose in terms of your advocacy and community engagement works? You know, I, I am a

00:50:26.320 - 00:50:45.020

lover of Houston. And so it's just it's very, very, a very big part of my life. So I am part of lots of different civic efforts in Houston. My— the person that manages my calendar and schedule

00:50:47.630 - 00:51:00.000

you know, reminds me the craziness of my civic participation. I would probably serve on like, you know, over a dozen boards and commissions all at once. And so a lot of my time is spent on that civic work.

00:51:01.520 - 00:51:15.290

One, I don't know how to say no. So when people invite me to go do something I, you know, I tell my sister, “I'm not going to do that. I'm not going to do that.” Next thing, you know, I'm doing it, right. But, but two, there is so much to

00:51:15.290 - 00:51:28.380

be done. And I feel fortunate that- that I'm in a position where I can contribute, right? That I can help other people and other institutions on things.

00:51:29.190 - 00:51:43.590

So, you don't really know how you got involved in something; but if you've been around for a long time, you're just involved in a lot of things. And what I've learned over the course of my life, and I'll just, it's just— it sounds cliche, but

00:51:44.640 - 00:52:00.640

just the appreciation for how lucky I am and my family is just just just surely, because I can see a million different times where something could have gone wrong. And we would have been in the opposite side, right.

00:52:00.730 - 00:52:14.110

That– that life could have gotten so much worse, and so many other challenges. So the civic work that I do is really driven from a lot of

00:52:16.430 - 00:52:30.460

just gratitude, you know, so it's– it's so you know, I'm on the board of Asia Society recently started working with a society on things. And you know, we have the– the second largest Asia Society after New York.

00:52:30.630 - 00:52:44.480

I think our building is actually even nicer. And the work the Asia Society does is incredible intertwined with the work I want to do in the Muslim American community, because, you know, millions of Muslims

00:52:44.590 - 00:52:56.610

are from the Asian continent. And that's something that geography ties us. So I'm very excited about that. I work with the chair, the TAG or the Transportation Advocacy Group

00:52:56.610 - 00:53:09.490

that you're talking about. You know, I think that how Houstonians get around impacts our quality of life far more than we realize. And we need more transportation dollars and help.

00:53:10.830 - 00:53:30.600

But you know, like, I could go through all of the dozen plus different groups I get to be part of, but the thread in it is how do we help each other in building a social fabric that creates a safety net, both for people that struggle financially;

00:53:31.950 - 00:53:47.030

but also a social net for community and, and culture. So, you know, the social fabric of Houston is very important to me, like I think we are, that Texas

00:53:48.790 - 00:54:05.150

became a majority minority state in 2000. In the Houston Independent School District, 91% of the kids come from communities of color— Asian Americans, Latinos, African Americans.

00:54:05.760 - 00:54:24.380

51% of the kids are of Latinx. By 2044, this country will look like Texas, and by 2065 Asian Americans will replace Latinos as first generation. Just think about that, right?

00:54:24.820 - 00:54:36.830

The evolution of the United States— this has been happening since the beginning of our existence. That different people have come, and it used to be just Europeans. You know, it was the– it

00:54:36.830 - 00:54:54.590

was Italians, it was the Irish and with each wave, you know, society changed and evolved. And after 1965, the immigration law changes, you know, the Asian Americans were the ones that started to come. And, and what we've seen when people look at, “Oh my god, the Hispanic

00:54:54.590 - 00:55:08.120

communities everywhere.” But by 2044, when, you know, the majority is minority in this country. And within that time frame, 204-... 2065 Asian Americans will

00:55:08.120 - 00:55:18.280

outpace Hispanics as first generation. So just when the Latinx community feels like they've arrived, you know, we're going to be Asians are going to be elbowing and saying, “No, no, it's our time now.” And that is the– that

00:55:18.280 - 00:55:30.200

is the beauty of this country that evolves. And we go through bumps in history. And then, and then there's smooth roads ahead. And I think that right now there's a bumpy time.

00:55:32.910 - 00:55:49.250

Whether it's the COVID-19 that's affecting our lives, or it's the political climate. We all feel that then we're at a bumpy time. But, you know, I think the more we improve that social fabric

00:55:50.120 - 00:56:02.830

of this nation, of the state, of the city, the- the stronger we'll be when we come out of those bumps. That's why, you know, my civic life doesn't make any sense because I do 10 million different things.

00:56:05.580 - 00:56:17.640

Yeah, definitely. I was going through your pages of resume, I was like where to start? And next, I was just wondering, given your Muslim and Asian American

00:56:18.810 - 00:56:35.890

identity, have you come across any like treatment of the difference because of that part of the identity? You know, lots of different points, but one- one that really stands out in my mind is right after 911.

00:56:36.020 - 00:56:50.790

I was on the phone, crossing in a parking lot, going from my car into Walmart. And as I was walking, somebody just beat the horn, and I wasn't paying attention. And you know, see the kind of parking lot, you start walking with

00:56:50.790 - 00:57:00.930

your phone, we've all done that. We've all seen people do it, we go away, you do this, right? You're walking with your phone, you could kill yourself or kill somebody else. And that was me walking out of my car, into

00:57:00.930 - 00:57:14.080

the store with a phone in hand not paying attention, and I hear this person beeping. And I just like ajar, and they rolled down their window and they said, "Go back to where you came from." And so in my mind, I

00:57:14.080 - 00:57:27.370

thought like, "You want to go back to Queens?" Like, because in a way, I'm a kid from Queens. And so when somebody says “go back to where you came from” that's what comes to me immediately in my mind.

00:57:27.840 - 00:57:42.220

I remember being driving around in my red car with New York license plates in 1994, and the Rockets were playing the Nix and people were, like I got you know, six speeding tickets in four weeks. And people kept on honking me wherever I went, right?

00:57:42.220 - 00:57:56.870

So in a way what was hardwired into me was like the New Yorkerness, you know, the kid from Queens. And so the reason why I mentioned is that we all have different identities and multiple identities and

00:57:56.870 - 00:58:10.420

sometimes it is a Muslim American identity. Sometimes it says of South Asian American, sometimes it's Asian American. Sometimes the Houstonian, sometimes it's a kid from Queens. And all those identities are part of us.

00:58:10.970 - 00:58:23.850

And given the context of what we're doing and where we are, you know, there is a dominant part of us that comes out, right? So like you're asking, advertising and, and so there's a lot of

00:58:23.850 - 00:58:36.240

things that some people will consider me a subject matter for, subject matter expert for until then. When I'm in that environment, that is my identity; I'm a subject matter expert for X.

00:58:37.820 - 00:58:52.620

So, identity is something that's far more fluid that we all realize, and different parts of our identity come out in, depending on the context that we're working on, occurs.

00:58:53.720 - 00:59:09.600

And that and that's why I think Houston is the place to be. Because it's the– it's the most, you know, diverse region; and not just in our country, but I would argue in the world. You know, we're more ethnic groups are evenly laid out

00:59:09.600 - 00:59:24.250

here than anywhere else in the world. And so if you want to see where this country is headed, or you know what the world is going to be like, then being in Houston is like standing on top of a mountain and looking

00:59:24.250 - 00:59:37.120

across, so you can see a lot of things happening. Right, you have great peripheral vision. So where you know where this country is headed, where the world is headed, you know, Houston gives you

00:59:37.430 - 00:59:53.560

a much broader perspective on how to be successful in that world, just by being here. Yeah, that's a great inspiration and vision. And also, I'm wondering how you're— as first generation

00:59:54.630 - 01:00:10.460

and your children as second generation, do you come across any like differences in like, mindset and values? And have you come across any debates in the family, you know, due to that? You know, I think that

01:00:13.850 - 01:00:29.240

my son is, is in his early 20s. And I think that their generation is the smartest generation that the world has ever seen. They have something, you know what I call it, it's compound

01:00:29.240 - 01:00:41.520

knowledge. When I was growing up, there was a child of the 80s there was this principle of compound income or compound, compound interest, right? Like they, you put your money and then the money grows because it's

01:00:41.520 - 01:00:55.740

compounding, right? I think there's a concept of compound knowledge. Because for every, you know, a child is growing up with with, you know, a Google, you know, in their phone, they can ask any question.

01:00:56.890 - 01:01:05.980

And based on their— what they find, they can ask the next question, the next question, the next question. And so they can become incredibly smart on something on their own.

01:01:07.290 - 01:01:22.510

When I was growing up, if you want to learn something, and you were fortunate enough to have an Encyclopedia Britannica in your house, you could go read a paragraph on what you were interested in. And that was it, and if you wanted more information than that, you

01:01:22.510 - 01:01:34.880

would have to then go to the library and look at an index file and then go find a book and then try to read that book. And that book was probably decades old most of the time, right? So it was old information.

01:01:36.320 - 01:01:50.970

And it took real effort to go, you know, figure things out. Now, at the click of a finger, you know, you can figure out what's going on, where it's going on, you can get the background of it, you can get details of

01:01:50.970 - 01:02:06.030

it, you can read as much as you possibly want to about any particular topic that you're curious about. And so I see the great challenges for us as Americans, as citizens of the world.

01:02:07.010 - 01:02:23.330

But what also has to be factored in is that this generation that's growing up is the smartest generation ever. And so their capacity to take on big challenges and find solutions is infinitely more than the

01:02:23.330 - 01:02:36.050

people that created the problems that exist today. And so I'm very optimistic in that. I think we're living in an age of disruptors, and not just in technology, but in

01:02:36.210 - 01:02:50.110

culture. And we're living in a time where great opportunity is in front of us. Although we don't feel it, we are living at the time when we're the most peaceful, the world is more peaceful today

01:02:50.110 - 01:03:04.150

than ever before. I would say prior to COVID, it's —the world is more prosperous than ever before in history. And there are more innovation and ideas coming at a pace and a clip that is moving

01:03:04.560 - 01:03:21.600

society faster. And so, you know, I am very optimistic that this next generation has the solutions and the answers that the world needs. And so you— we're all going to feel a lot of bumps.

01:03:22.110 - 01:03:35.750

But on the other side of that there is a very smooth road. Yeah, that's great to hear. And we are very hopeful, especially I guess, now, the

01:03:35.750 - 01:03:51.200

2020 and the number of issues the world are experiencing. How has 2020 been for you, and what has been the most pressing issues on your mind? You know, this COVID-19 is is has affected

01:03:51.630 - 01:04:05.620

all of us, right? It's changed the way we live, we work and the impact of, of it on our economy is, and we're just starting to understand it. I think that by first quarter of

01:04:05.690 - 01:04:19.690

next year is when you will really feel the impact on our economy. It will change. It's a shared event, the very few things in life that are just shared by the world, right, to share an event,

01:04:19.770 - 01:04:31.570

especially in our country. And it's going to change us, and it could change us for the better if we make better decisions. And so, I mean you asked

01:04:31.570 - 01:04:47.500

about the civic work is— a lot of it is trying to help make better decisions as a community, on big important challenges that we face. You know, we are in an environment that if we don't educate the next generation,

01:04:48.750 - 01:04:59.950

you know, we're shooting ourselves in the foot. So people talk about the income divide. There's also a divide in education which drives our income divide too.

01:05:00.650 - 01:05:15.390

So education is going to be a big thing that we as a nation, as a state, as a region. You know, like we're gonna see enormous amount of child poverty; we're going to see poverty, in general, we're going to see enormous amount of child poverty, because of

01:05:15.390 - 01:05:26.350

COVID-19. It's going to exasperate some of those cracks in our society. And you can't expect children to learn if they're— don't have the basic essentials, right?

01:05:26.350 - 01:05:42.860

So there are some real world issues that have to be tackled, that COVID-19 is going to really fast track. And our ability to respond as a community and society is going to determine the outcome.

01:05:43.840 - 01:05:59.000

The asset that we have is this generation of people that are the smartest generation ever. And I think that this election cycle, we will see Millennials and Generation-X out vote Baby Boomers for the first time.

01:06:00.350 - 01:06:14.270

And if they get civically involved and engaged in tackling the big problems in our society, I think we're just, we're gonna be just fine, though. But what we do need to work towards getting them engaged

01:06:14.660 - 01:06:30.730

and, and, and also, you know, the generation picking up the mantle. Yeah, and I was hearing your Asia Society talk about civic engagement and voting. And what, what do

01:06:30.780 - 01:06:48.390

you consider to be the kind of turnout of the mail-in voting and what you will consider as the most effective way to get more people to engage? I am... I

01:06:48.390 - 01:07:07.360

believe that liberal democracies is the path forward for all of us, right, that democracy works. And I, I have, you know, I can attest to it because I've been part of so many different public programs and

01:07:07.360 - 01:07:23.690

projects, both personal life and professionally. But in order for democracy to work, we as a society have to want it to work. You know a democracy is a set of communal contracts that we make with each other.

01:07:23.960 - 01:07:34.810

It's not a document. It is the norms that we create in our society of what's acceptable, and what's not. That we know we're not going to get individually everything we want, but we're going to get

01:07:35.310 - 01:07:47.310

most of what we want by helping other people get what they need. Right? So it's a, we have to see this in a communal way. I've been fortunate that I've had opportunity to travel the world on on very, both

01:07:47.310 - 01:08:00.710

professionally and personally. And you will go into a lot of countries, and you'll go into someone's home and they have a beautiful home. They have a wall between them and the rest of the world.

01:08:01.250 - 01:08:17.900

And that wall and that street is filled with trash, but they have a beautiful home behind those walls. What democracy does basically, it, it creates an environment where the- the the shared amenities are as good as what

01:08:18.020 - 01:08:29.140

most people live in. Right? So, you know, there's a community compact that we will all chip in a little bit, so that everybody can have a better quality of life,

01:08:29.140 - 01:08:42.820

which then makes it better for everyone, including the people that are at the top. So when 70% of our GDP is on consumer spending, if average people have less money, then we cannot move our economy.

01:08:44.200 - 01:08:56.840

So the idea that we all have to chip in a little bit in order to make the whole system work, is not just in our tax dollars, but also in our participation.

01:08:57.230 - 01:09:08.920

Right? Everybody has to vote. Not everybody has to be super politically, like a political junkie; but everybody has to vote. Right? Some of us have to be more engaged in those civic

01:09:09.270 - 01:09:18.640

political circles, because that's what, that's how we pick our leadership. Right. Some of us have to be contributors, some of us have to be volunteers.

01:09:19.860 - 01:09:31.190

Some of us have to just be better informed. Some of us have to create better conversations to move the partisanship out and to talk about issues that affect everyday life Americans, right?

01:09:31.600 - 01:09:44.710

But everybody has a role in that. And I find that right now, there is a sense that we take things through a partisan lens, rather than as an American lens, or as a Texas lens.

01:09:45.370 - 01:10:00.290

And so I'm hoping that this next generation really changes that ecosystem and puts you know what, you know, what the people at the bottom need, what people in the middle need, people at the top need, and not see it that divisive as we've

01:10:00.330 - 01:10:12.650

got. And I think it's possible. And I, everything I've got a son who is in his early 20s. And I see it in him, like he was, you know, he wrote an amicus brief to the Texas Supreme Court

01:10:13.520 - 01:10:28.290

when he was in, you know, fresh out of high school, and it was in the school finance system. And the Texas Supreme Court said that that was the best brief that was filed for a lawsuit that has 650 school districts and the

01:10:28.290 - 01:10:43.360

best lawyers in our state involved. You know, I've seen him, you know, learn these things on his own by just reading and learning. So be the best in

01:10:43.360 - 01:11:01.320

that generation, just, you know, and parts of what I see in my kids. So I think the, I think the rest of us have to get out of our mental narratives of, they're just watching, they're just playing games, they're just playing video

01:11:01.320 - 01:11:14.760

games, or they're just not that engaged or why can't they be X... Every generation says that about the generation after them. Every generation feels they had it harder, and they– they had it harder than the

01:11:14.760 - 01:11:30.160

generation that that is preceding them. And I think that there has to be this openness, both in culture and family, of giving that next generation a little bit more space, a little bit more authority.

01:11:31.080 - 01:11:47.710

So that they can lead. And I think that, that I think that, that will happen. Oh, a little philosophical but since you asked the question. Yeah, we love that philosophical aspect.

01:11:48.020 - 01:12:02.380

And I am also wondering, you have touched on how the technology has changed this upcoming and future generations to come. And we are also seeing through this

01:12:02.600 - 01:12:20.050

coronavirus that it has divided, how people with the access to technology, and people who are under that poverty line who doesn't have the access; and also the the number of Black Lives Matter movement; and the

01:12:21.620 - 01:12:39.690

like at the start of the pandemic like how the Asian Americans were discriminated against; and the number of racial slurs and like names such as the “China virus”, or the “Wuhan virus”, and the “Kung Flu” to be used on

01:12:39.930 - 01:12:53.600

this group of people. And how have— how have 2020 and the election year impacted all the, all these issues that evolved to...?

01:12:55.740 - 01:13:12.680

So what is your vision of how technology and like racial inequity issues can be... Maybe I-I... So, I think, look, I think we come— our

01:13:13.490 - 01:13:24.560

brains in the past have been wired for like a linear life, like we do the one thing at a time, and then you do the next thing and then you do next and the next thing. We're living in a time where everything's happening all at once.

01:13:25.800 - 01:13:42.600

Right, and we are more interconnected today than ever before. You know, like, when I was growing up, it is within my own lifetime, that if something happened on the other side of the world, you would find out about it at

01:13:42.600 - 01:13:57.600

best in New York Newspaper the next day. Right? You would see in New York news the next day, here's what happened across the world. And you would see maybe one picture and some content written and describe what happened.

01:13:59.510 - 01:14:16.260

Now, when something happens around the world, that I'm not aware, it shows up in your feed instantaneously. Not just the headline and that one picture; but dozens and dozens of pictures with video, with you know, people

01:14:16.260 - 01:14:32.070

talking about it in detail, in real time. So this interconnectedness drives our emotions, so whatever you care about, because you're seeing it in your feed, in real time, and

01:14:32.070 - 01:14:50.060

you're— people who are very much like you comment on it, it makes you feel just more of that. So if you dislike something, you're going to dislike it more. It's going to harden your heart, because you're going to see it, you know, escalating.

01:14:53.260 - 01:15:05.010

That is both a problem and a solution, right? Because in some ways, knowing what's going on in real time allows you to make better decisions. Right?

01:15:06.740 - 01:15:20.740

So we have to kind of balance that; we just haven't come to a— we haven't centered ourselves around what's available to us. So right now, people are using that connectedness

01:15:22.450 - 01:15:38.540

to manipulate. Right so that connectedness we have now is- is, you're able to use it to manipulate people, and we've seen this in an election process and lots of other places. Because the people that have that technology aren't native to it.

01:15:39.440 - 01:15:53.410

Right? So you have, you know, billions of people that, you know, social media is something new to them. And so you can easily scare

01:15:53.410 - 01:16:09.180

them by showing them things, right. And we're seeing that in real time we've seen the, you know, we've seen politicians around the world, not just in our country, but around the world use it to scare people; because now

01:16:09.180 - 01:16:27.680

they have the power to send something on the internet, on that person's phone, a video, a message, attacks, a tweet, a post that makes them angry or immediately gets that, gets them emotionally riled up.

01:16:29.310 - 01:16:46.630

The next generation are growing up native to this technology, they're better wired to discern what's real and what's not. And I think that as we get more and more, you know, as the years come by, we're going to learn to be able to

01:16:46.780 - 01:16:59.640

understand when something happens around the world, how does it affect you? What does it mean? How should you react to it? In a better way than we are today. So the technology is basically brought a set of tools that we're not

01:16:59.700 - 01:17:15.000

using in the most useful way right now. And, and people have use— are using those tools to manipulate, to move their agenda forward. Right. So if you are, you know, if you're a dictator or authoritarian,

01:17:16.790 - 01:17:34.160

you, in the olden days, if you march your armies into a town, you would go take over the TV station or the radio station, because you wanted to let everybody in that town know that, “I am new, and I'm in charge.

01:17:35.030 - 01:17:48.120

Stay in your house. I'm here; I've taken over.” Right? That information channels were critical, right? That, because it was like, so a way to communicate; the information

01:17:48.120 - 01:18:01.160

warfare was critical. It's the same thing now. Right? People are dominating our feeds, and they're dominating, you know, what we're seeing; and they're manipulating that to alter what is important to us.

01:18:01.920 - 01:18:12.590

And that, you know, the thing that connects us also compartmentalizes us, so it's us versus them. And I think that that will change. I don't think that, that's sustainable.

01:18:12.830 - 01:18:27.030

I, you know, I think that over time, the, those that are native to the technology, that grew up with a phone, that grew up with having access to Google, you know, and, you know, and every question they had to ask, are going

01:18:27.350 - 01:18:37.610

to respond very differently to those. They're going to be far more resilient, in being able to discern what's real and what's not. Just at an intuitive level.

01:18:38.110 - 01:18:47.780

And so that's why I'm optimistic. I think this is just a rough patch, that we're going through. Once we get through this rough patch, the people that are native to the technology are

01:18:47.780 - 01:19:04.560

going to find the solutions to these big problems. So I'm not, I'm not just pushing it off to the future saying, you know, generations before caused the problem, this current generation go fix it. I want to play a part in– in

01:19:04.560 - 01:19:21.050

fixing those– those challenges and taking on those– those things. But I'm optimistic, because I feel like the next generation is more equipped, and smarter. Yeah, there's definitely a great future we're looking forward to.

01:19:22.530 - 01:19:40.220

And I guess that's the end of my questions. Do you have anything else you would like to add? You know, like our personal lives are so intertwined with where we are, what time period we live in.

01:19:41.930 - 01:19:57.400

And I feel like the world is more at peace, more prosperous today than ever before. And we will face some real challenges. Whether it's the economic divide, whether it's the

01:19:57.400 - 01:20:11.140

divide of education. But we are also in a position that if we are engaged, you know, at our local level and our national level, and we participate, that we have the

01:20:11.140 - 01:20:27.150

opportunity to build the kind of world that our children deserve. And it, you know, it's kind of esoteric in a– in a– in that sense, but it requires everyday action to make that work.

01:20:27.530 - 01:20:44.320

And so I take that in my life, very seriously. That how I spend my time, what I spend my time doing is really important because there is a, you know, your life moves very quickly we, we turn around like, married for 25 years,

01:20:44.870 - 01:20:56.470

been in Houston for 26 years. We, you are, you know, half a century old now. Those things move very quickly before you know it.

01:20:57.140 - 01:21:16.100

So I have this sense of urgency that, you know, you got to do more, I got to do more, I got to do more today. Because the future is too important of our kids not to do that. Is that the message you would like to share with the future generations in

01:21:16.100 - 01:21:28.740

case they come to our archive and find your interview? You know, like, I will, I will, I am a, I'm a witness to the fact

01:21:29.650 - 01:21:45.120

that, the– this young generation is the smartest in human history and has more capacity than any generation before them. And I mean that and I don't

01:21:45.280 - 01:21:59.010

just, just don't say that; I say that as somebody who is paying attention, and who's actually thought about it and studied it. So it's a factual statement I make rather than an optimistic look forward, right?

01:21:59.090 - 01:22:13.650

I can, I can, I can give evidence to why this is the smartest generation. So I put a lot of stock for what's to come. Just like we do when anything in life, right like you, you look at a company and you go this is a well-run company.

01:22:14.240 - 01:22:29.320

You can see it; you can see why, right? It's a well-run agency. You can see why. And I think that this next generation is going to head that, you know, this nation and this and agencies that are part of

01:22:29.970 - 01:22:50.580

this nation in a way that will propel us. I'm optimistic not because I'm an optimistic person; I am. But I'm optimistic because I've actually

01:22:51.010 - 01:22:52.060

seen the end.