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Today is March 30th and I'm here inside, um, Melody Shu’s house, and we're about to commence the interview, so um, can you please describe where and when you were born, and um, just your neighborhood growing up? Uh, I was born in Keelung, that's from Taiwan.

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Uh…the neighborhood that time, it was pretty poor, and we, uh, lived in a very small house. Uh, we have, uh… my parents have five children, and my father that time, he was a sailor—you know, sailor—so

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he came home like every other two years. So in my childhood, I really don't know too much about my father. But my mom, uh, she never goes to school, so she cannot read, but she's a very nice woman. So she

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uh, she just—uh, how can I say—very traditional Chinese woman. So I think that's it. It's a very big influence for us. And the neighborhood, it wasn't very uh, rich; it's all very poor.

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So at that time, we don't even have a restroom in your own house. You have to use the public restroom, and to that is a nightmare to me, ‘cause I have very bad memory about my childhood.

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So, um, you mentioned that your father returned only every two years. Um, did your mother work? No, she need to raise five kids, so it's uh, very hard work for her, too. Yeah, and she's a

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Buddhist, so it really helped her, and also influenced us a lot, 'cause when you have a god or Buddha in your heart, then you will respect a lot of things. Yeah. So that really a big influence to

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us, even now, even now. Yes. So um, can describe your hometown, like if it was in a city or um, rural, and what was it like—what did people do for a living, um, in that area?

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The city is actually just like Houston—it's a harbor, but it rains a lot. Okay, it rains like two-hundred-some days in the year, 'cause it's a famous part about the rain.

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And during that time, the area, the neighborhood… I cannot say it's v ery poor, but compared to now, yes. But we're happy.

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Yeah, so it depends on the, on the person. Yeah, so my mom always say, "Enough is enough." So we always have to count our blessing; so that really influenced us a lot. So we're not very aggressive or

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ambitious; so we always count our blessing. Yeah. And, um, when your father returned home, what were those visits like, and how long did he typically stay? Usually, he'll stay like maybe a couple weeks, and um, he would bring

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some things that you can't get from your own country, 'cause he's a sailor; he went to all different countries. So in that case we also learned something, you know, from those stuff that he brought

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home. We would learn about the other culture, so which is an advantage, you know, to us too. But it is somehow the things that he bought, sometimes he need to sell it to some people make a little bit of a profit, so usually you will only see those things but you will

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not enjoy those things. You can’t—you can't have it, so that—that's some memories about those stuff. What kind of sailor was he? He—he is a chef. Mm okay, so he prepared food on board?

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Yeah, yeah. He's a chef. Yeah. So that's why my, um, family had a restaurant in here. Yeah… We used to have a restaurant in Houston. Wow, I’m gonna ask about that.

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So okay. So what were your neighbors like and were there any kinds of local gatherings and events? Were you close to your neighbors? Oh yes, yes. 'Cause I remember at that time maybe around six,

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seven-year-old, the TV just, you know, into the market, and only the rich family can afford that. So we don't have a television. Uh, I love singing; there are some program, you know, they're singing.

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So we always like to ask them, can we come to your house and watching TV? And that lady she's very strict 'cause she’s uh, she’s very neat and clean, so she afraid of

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you know, all different kinds of neighboring kids going to their house. So she required that you have to be very clean, wash your feet before you come to our house.

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So that something, uh, it’s in my mind, and then sometimes it hurts your feelings, too, yeah— but then, well, you still appreciate that we can enjoy the program, 'cause back then, not every family has a television.

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So you really, you learn something from the television, too, so I guess I should be thankful! So that was like a local gathering place? Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

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What kinds of programs did you watch—like the news or any TV shows? You know, in that time, you wanna watch everything. So it really, it really give me a big influence because I watched even Chinese opera; I watched

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anything. So it opened your view, you know, 'cause back then only radio. But then we have a TV—wow, your life changed. Yeah, cool.

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Um. So it sounds like your mother was a very traditional woman. Did you learn any traditional skills like making clothes, or cooking a special dish? Like how did you learn your skills and did you know about the tradition's history in your family? Oh yeah, 'cause that time, my mom came

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from Shanghai—so that time, because Communists and Taiwan, they are separated now, you can't have any, uh… there's no communication. So my mom always missed her parents.

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So lots of times, she's very sad. My mom always cried, so I think that influenced us too. So sometimes you see things not in the very happy, bright side. Yeah, I remember she always cooks, right—she's not a

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very good cook, but my mom's from Shanxi. That city, they made wine, so during the winter time, she always, you know, made some wine, so she would tell us, you know, "If I'm making that, you guys do

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not talk too loud!" 'Cause she had some superstitions— so she made the… she steamed the, the, the sweet rice, nuo mi , and then when she—after she do everything, she cover up with a blanket.

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So she would tell everybody, "Do not touch anything, and then not speak very loud," and she believed that if she made that wine very successful, that whole year she will have good luck. So we had to be very careful when she made that thing, so we had to be very

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quiet and not to say anything bad, you know. So that's in yo—in my memory too. So I think it's pretty—pretty sweet. And now, I try to make that too, and uh, I can make it pretty good too;

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I already made a few times. That's great! Do you have this—do you have the same requirement that no one talks too loud when you're making it, or...? Oh no! I will not do that, but even now, the kids are already growing and

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my daughter, now she doesn't live with me, so usually it's very quiet here. But I—I also use the blanket. You know, I can put it in the oven, and I say, "Oh, I want to use it the way my mom did," so I learned from her.

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Yeah… Are there any other beliefs or traditions that you've retained from your family that you still do today? Okay. After I marry, my mom always uh, do some ceremony when she remembers

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her mom, her father, pass away, the day—so she will do, she will cook some dishes, and then light the, uh, candle and the incense. We also, we’ll um burn some, uh, those, those money for those

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that pass away, so I learned that from her. So I, I did it for ten years in United States after I marry. I did it for my husband's, my in-laws, there—they pass away early. So I know what day

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they pass away; I also do that. And then somehow in that case, my two kids, they learn, they know to respect their—the people that pass away. And they know that's our tradition, so they

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will respect the elderly. So right now, I have two kids—they're very—we're very close, and they also uh, know how to—we don't, we don’t really ask if they could to repay us back, but they

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always respect the elderly, even, even with my sister and my brother, so we are very close family. That's great. Um, so could you maybe describe your education growing up?

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Like what was—what was school like? Were you encouraged to learn? Uh, what did you think about your education? Okay, just because my mom, she didn't go to school.

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So she really think that to be a daughter, a woman, you really don't need a very high education, 'cause she—she think that if you have your own skill, you can, you know, just be on yourself. Okay, maybe because my father

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always, you know, always out, not at home—so she—I don't know about—I think she's not pretty happy about her marriage. 'Cause she—she always said, um, that to be a woman, you

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really don't need to get married. She said if you have your own job, you can depend on yourself; you can be happy too. So I don't know why she say that, but that also in my mind too, but um,

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no—but I'm just a very ordinary person, so I still, you know, just follow the step-by-step: so just, finish school, get married, have children, raise your kids. So, I don't know, maybe she's not very

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happy because my father's always not at home, and then she need to taking care all the children. Or she had a lot of pressure, all the burden, and responsibility too, 'cause no one can share. So after I marry, I can—I can feel how she—how her

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situation at that time. Sometimes I feel a little sorry for her, too. Yeah. It's interesting, you described your mother as a traditional woman, but, um, she also felt like if a woman had her own job and her own skill

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set, she could be completely independent. That sounds like a very progressive idea. Maybe because in her mind, she wishes she can do like that. But then that time, she

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already have children, have a family—she couldn't do something that she wanted. So, I don't know, 'cause she pass away so early, you know when I was twenty-five, she pass away. So, and that time, I wasn't—I think I'm not very mature at that time, so I wish I had

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talked to her more. But then, she's very traditional—she—a little prejudiced about daughter and son. So I’m—I have two sisters and then one older brother, and then me, I'm the fourth, and then a younger brother—so—actually, she and I, we're not very close 'cause

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she put all the, all her attention on the two sons. So daughter to her is not important. Sometimes I feel hurts. . Yeah, that hurts me 'cause some—even now, I will talk to my children about my uh,

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childhood, so—not very happy. But then my two sisters said "How can you have a feeling like that? We don't feel like that." But I say, "Well you guys older, I'm the, you know, a little bit"— so it's already the

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fourth! She doesn't have time for me! So I'm always very independent. Yeah, I'm always. It is so funny; after everything, I'm the only one that speaks English in my five brother,

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sisters. Yeah, 'cause I know I have to be strong and be independent. Otherwise, who gonna help you? Right. Did your—did your mother encourage you to learn and develop your own interests? Yeah, you know, um, in the class, 'cause I

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know—I'm just like a little sponge, a dry sponge—you want to learn everything. I think I'm very greedy—no, but not in money-wise—just in, in education and knowledge, always want to learn this and that.

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That's why I have a lot of interests and I have a lot of hobby, so I think maybe that's why I can be a happy person, 'cause I will not be, you know, just, sit there and doing nothing. In school, I'm okay—I'm

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never—she never have to worry about my, my, my homework and because—because she's not gonna help you because you can't get anything from her, because she doesn't read. So, uh, I just have to behave. And then I know if I don't learn, then I will not have a future.

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So ‘cause you know, sometimes you have to born with a little—a little IQ, right?—so IQ's not very high, right? But you try your—try to do your best, and after I graduate high school, and then we immigrate to

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here. And I want to continue college, but my father said, um, "In United States, everybody have to work, and you're already nineteen-year-old. In here, the eighteen-year-old, you know,

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kids—you have to be on your own. So she said that I wish you just go to work, not—not go to school." But for that, I fight with them. And then uh, finally, he agrees with me, 'cause he—I told

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him if I don't have a college degree, where I gonna go? You know I can't—I can't be anything. So—first few months, he wasn't very happy, but then, he's agree with me, so he cook for me to

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bring a lunch box, to make a lunch box for me, so I know that in a way, he's kind of support me. Right. 7 | P age But then, only one year, my mom's sick. She had cancer. So um, I can't talk about that.

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I will cry, 'cause I have to stop, not to go to school. My whole life, I only feel like I'm very um… I feel very sad that I didn't finish college. That's something that really hurts me—but then, at that

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time, she's sick. She need people taking care of her. My two sisters all already married, so because of that, I didn't finish my co—my college.

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But also I cannot blame them because inside my heart, I'm a little lazy also, and then, when you are nineteen and twenty, it's very hard to learn another language—'cause you came to this country. Everything to you is, is new.

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You feel like you are blind 'cause you can't read. You feel like you're mute; you couldn't talk. So, and then also, people say something you don't understand—that was a very, very tough time.

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Yeah, so uh, so she's sick, so I have excuse not go to—not go to school. But I also know after she pass away, I still have to go on. Mm, but then, in the family,

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because that time, your sisters already married, and your two brothers still back in Taiwan 'cause they have to finish service—'cause in Taiwan, every man have to go do service.

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So I'm just alone—so I'm kind of worried, and then, I'm worried that my mom gonna pass away. Then if I don't have my own family, I will be alone. Even though I have a father—but because you don't—you're not very close to your father

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the way you grow up, so I still feel like not too close to him. So wow, mom gonna pass away, so— it feels like you have, you know, you have no family there. So at that time, almost twenty-four,

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twenty-five, then I said well, maybe I should—I should start my own family. So I want to get married. Yeah. Uh…so five years later, I went back home. I already met my husband when I was

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in high school. But we just friends like that. But then that— back then, at that time, somehow we see each other again, and then I guess he's ready to get married—so very fast we get married.

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Right bef—before my mom passed away, I registered my marriage in the City Hall in January 28, 1979? Or '78. And then my mom pass away on April the tenth. So next week, pretty soon, it's

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her anniversary; she will be passed away thirty-five years. So she knew that you got married and— She's very happy 'cause—actually, actually I can tell by the conversation, in a way. She was very sick in the hospital.

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She said that "I'm not worried about your brother, I'm not worried about your two sisters; I only worry about you." But it was very surprise that she say that to me 'cause usually she's not very close to me. And then she said that "I wish you—I will see you get

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married before I die." So I really—knew that—very rush to find somebody. But I don't know whether I should say is that a good or bad, 'cause marriage is also very rough. You have to go through this and that, even though now it's thirty-five years.

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I guess I count my blessing—I still 8 | P age have to be very grateful. It's not easy. Yeah, marriage is not easy. It really takes two to

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tango. That's very true. Tango is not easy to dance to. See that night when Anne called me, I really— whole night, I couldn't sleep, 'cause I just rewind all my memories.

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I said, "Wow, I didn't know I have very interesting life!" Maybe to certain people, it's not very—a big deal—but when you think about back then, it's just a lot. There's a lot of tears involved, too.

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I think—I think everyone has a very interesting narrative. They just don't— Especially women. Yeah. Excuse me. Did I say too much?

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No, no, this is great. So I’m curious—going back a little bit. When did your family decide to come to the U.S.? It was very long process.

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When I was ten year old, I already knew that I'm gonna immigrate. But then my father—he waits very long to get the visa for us, so when we're finally ready to leave to get a visa, I already finish my high school.

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So I was nineteen-year-old. That’s— excuse me, that's 1972, June the twentieth. Yeah, that is a big day because in the airport, we have to say goodbye to our sister.

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First sister, she already married and then have two kids. Yeah, it's very hard to say goodbye to your, your dear one, 'cause it's very first time ‘cause your family gonna be apart.

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So my mom and my second sister—three of us—we came first, and my, uh, two brothers, you know, in the service. Yeah, and that's a tough day—a lot of tears in the airport.

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And my first sister just—that time she was pregnant with the third one. She cries a lot. Yeah... So, um, do you know, like, why, uh, the decision to immigrate came about?

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Was there a reason? Yes. Because it's hard for my, uh, father to uh, to uh, raise five kids in that time, so when he came over to here, I think he uh, have a restaurant with a few of

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his good friends. So that time, you're making money in the United States and then send the money to Taiwan, so he really give us a very better life. We changed life and then we bought—bought a nice house; we move

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out of the poor neighborhood. We went to a better neighborhood, so we have a two-storage house— that really a big change. That time, I was thirteen-year-old.

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I just started my junior high 'cause back home, uh, elementary is six years—not here, it's five years, so when you're in junior high, you're already thirteen. So we moved to a nice neighborhood with a big house and also

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have a little, a little, um, porch, something. Yeah. Even now, I went back every—sometime when I went back, I always go to visit that place. We already sold the place, 'cause my

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mom pass away, so we sold that house to buy a nice cemetery for them. So did your father come here first, or did you come toge— Yeah, he came when I was ten-year-old. Yeah. He came early.

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We wait so long to get a visa; it's not easy that time for immigrant. Right, yeah. So, um, how did he come over here, and what possessions did he bring with

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him? Okay, um, after that, I understand that he was a sailor, but then he jumped the ship—that, that, that's illegal. But I think back then, a lot of people do that, so

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he's one of them. But then, he has a very good cooking skill because back then, in—he's from Ningbo—Suxian Ningbo—he told us that his story.

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His parents have their own restaurant in that time when he was little, so he has two brothers. So one, the older one learned French style; he learned Chinese style. So he's a great chef.

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My father used to teach Chinese American Institute in New York. He has a lot of students, and then back in Taiwan, he also has a lot of students. Yeah, he—he's a great chef. He only cooked Shanghainese food—specialize

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in Shanghainese. That's great! So um, he came here by himself and stayed for a couple years before getting a visa? Uh, so when I'm ten, then nineteen—nine years later we got a

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visa. So has to get a green card first, get permanent resident, then he can apply for us. It takes nine years. Yeah, that was a long time, so I—we haven't seen him for that long.

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For nine years. Yeah. So that's why I—I just don't remember too much about my father. Right. Yeah, I don't um, remember—you know how he looks like, but you don't, you're not very close to him. But I know he loved all the children; he's a very kind man.

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But my father liked to gambling, so he gambled all the money away. So it makes life very hard. But he's a very nice man. Yeah. Do you know—do you know what it was like for him

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working jobs in the United States and applying for a green card? Was it difficult? Yeah. I—I think it's very difficult.

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Yeah, um, he was a chef, and then he owned a restaurant with a few partners. Um, he tried very hard to get us a visa also, and at that time they have to hire lawyer.

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And there’s a very funny story that he doesn't remember my name, so he gave them a wrong name to that, uh, the lawyer. So it made me, I have to go back and change my name. I guess too many kids for him.

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But he's a very nice father. Yeah, when we came over here, he always cook for us. Maybe he feel like those years—there's a big gap in there, so he tried to do a lot for us.

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Very nice man. So—that time—I feel father's love. Yeah. During that time, did he—you mentioned that he had some cooking students. What kinds of jobs did he have? He's a—he's a chef.

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Yeah, so, uh, because he cooked, he only cooked Shanghainese style, and then I think, uh, for that style, they have—they separate a few parts. So he's the one that always do the banquet—you know, in the very beginning there's a cold cuts; he specialized in

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that. So yeah, and he used to work for Taiwanese President's family. Oh, wow! Yeah, yeah, it's very interesting. Yeah, he'd always tell us a lot of stories 'cause he's a

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very, very good chef. Interesting. 12 | P age Yeah, 'cause Chiang Kai-shek from Zhejiang also, so they like to eat, you know, Shanghainese-style food. So their family hired my father—he used to work for them for a while.

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Yeah. That's really neat. Yeah, all those stories are, you know, what our father told us. Yeah. What city did he work in? I think in the beginning, he get, he get off the…

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jumped the ship in Hoboken. You heard that, right? That place is in Maryland or somewhere, right? And then, most of the time, he stayed in New York. In the beginning he's in Hoboken, then to New York.

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So he has a restaurant, and the restaurant name called 456. Most of the Shanghainese people know about that restaurant, and that's why we have one in here too.

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After many years my mother pass away, so we decide to move down—move down to here. I just got married one year, and I feel like it's a—it's a nice place to raise kids, 'cause New York is very different.

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It's good for young people like your age. You need to go to New York—have you ever been there? Yeah, I have. Yeah? I really enjoy New York 'cause that's my second hometown.

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So I think I got mature in that, in that city, so there's a lot of memories too, 'cause I lived there for seven and a half years. Then I moved to here. How did you feel about um,

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your decision to move to the U.S.? That time I have no—I cannot make any decision. I have to—you're not married, you follow your parents—so I just, you know, follow the family.

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But I think it's a, it's a great, great opportunity, 'cause back then, I only graduated from high school. It's very hard for you to find a job. Yes, I could be an accountant 'cause I graduate from a

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business school. So I can, I can be accountant in a little, you know, company or something. But then, the learning opportunity would not be like in here, so I'm really very grateful, even though

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with my two sisters, we always talk about that—really think about, you know, about our father. Without him, we cannot come here, so even now, we still think, "Why all those neighborhood, you know,

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friends—no one immigrate—only our family?" So even when we're very lonely, but then, we think about that and say, "Back then, how come only our father came here?" But here, really it's a, it’s a great place,

00:27:09.200 - 00:27:24.370

'cause we really appreciate our father made this big decision for us. Yeah, so I—we think we're very fortunate. Yeah, 'cause back then, you come here, Taiwan to here, here is just like heaven. Serious.

00:27:24.980 - 00:27:39.940

I don't know about, you know, how, is, you know, back in China, but I know China because of Cultural Revolution—Revolution a lot of people, you know, they pass very, very hardship at that time.

00:27:40.780 - 00:28:00.190

But compare Taiwan, we're very lucky because Chiang Kai-shek didn't… still give us everything— education, this and that. We didn't get any abuse or anything, so we're pretty lucky. But then we come here, then you see, oh, here—you'd have uh, uh,

00:28:01.110 - 00:28:13.500

speech, your free speech, free everything. But back then, you do have a free speech, but you cannot talk about anything pub—no political things. Yeah, but in here, you can, you can speak everything, it's

00:28:13.500 - 00:28:30.210

okay. But then, we just lao baixing —just ordinary people; we're not involved in the politics things, so you can make your life very, very happy in here. Yeah. So what were um, your first impressions and early experiences in the U.S.

00:28:30.210 - 00:28:38.310

like? Um, like what was it like entering the country—did they ask you any questions? And then what was it like for the first few months?

00:28:39.130 - 00:28:56.870

Mmm…For one thing that's always in my mind; I always feel like, um, people from here—they are very open-minded. And they're not very prejudiced about a lot of stuff. Okay, uh, like we—we tried to get a visa in um,

00:28:57.890 - 00:29:10.760

embassy, in United… U.S. Embassy back home—back home in Taiwan. So when we tried to get a visa, people usually are very nervous about that—you're gonna go to the Americans' embassy, you're gonna talk to American—you

00:29:11.140 - 00:29:24.990

know Amer—those Western people. And one thing I always remember—I always feel wow, this is very big touch. My mom, she couldn't read or sign, even sign her name, and we have to sign in

00:29:24.990 - 00:29:37.270

English. For us, we can pass but not my mom. But that gentleman—I don't remember how he looks like, but he is a very nice guy. He say, "Do not worry, we understand the situation.

00:29:38.530 - 00:29:53.880

How about you just make a cross and then make a circle?" That's how my mom signed her visa to came to this country. So they're so—they just respect people, like, you know—to me, that's really a very big touch.

00:29:54.020 - 00:30:07.780

A very big touch—always see the different culture. So. But that time, I already, you know, start to, "Oh, I cannot wait to, to see this country!" That's really a big, big

00:30:08.270 - 00:30:22.110

difference, 'cause usually people will look down at you—"Oh, you never go to school, you can't even write your name." But in that time, different country and people respect you so much. We are so appreciate him.

00:30:22.110 - 00:30:37.550

Yeah, that sounds like a really positive, um, experience. Yeah! So what—I mean what were some of the major differences that really struck you between um, Taiwan and your new home in the U.S.? Okay uh, we came to New York; we live in Chinatown.

00:30:38.830 - 00:30:53.140

So you see—"Wow, how come a lot of Chinese people?" And then the neighborhood wasn't very—a big difference from our hometown—but some—and, and back then, our hometown is even, I mean, the

00:30:53.700 - 00:31:07.000

neighborhood, everything is even better than Chinatown. So it's, it’s, it's like, "What happened? We're going backward." 'Cause Chinatown's, you know, right? But then, back—back then, my

00:31:07.100 - 00:31:20.330

father sent all the money; we have a big house; everything's very nice. We have telephone, we have everything, you know—except that time, no one drives. We don't have a car, but, but still, we live a very, very— comfortable and happy there.

00:31:21.270 - 00:31:34.730

But when we came to here, we thought, "Oh, my goodness." We lived in a very small apartment in Chinatown, and then, the crime rate's crazy that time. You have—during the night, you can't go out, especially you're woman.

00:31:34.900 - 00:31:45.720

You just can't go out. So people will warn you—you have to be very careful, you have to watch your purse, and this and that. And that time, back then, there's a lot of Puerto Rican, and also a lot of

00:31:47.270 - 00:31:57.750

hei ren —don't want to be racist —but just not very safe. So you were so surprised. Why? Why it's not safe in this place?

00:31:57.910 - 00:32:11.350

You know, you can’t—you couldn’t—you can't go out, and then there's a lot of robbery, also. And you heard a lot of—inside our apartment building, on our side, in—I mean, around the entrance, you'll get

00:32:11.350 - 00:32:26.720

robbed. So a lot of those crazy and horrible stories. Yeah, so, so they made you very worried, and also, subway. Downtown, uptown—I cannot, I—I have no idea.

00:32:27.100 - 00:32:39.760

And then you cannot read, and you cannot talk. You can't even ask people when you when you get into the subway, when you get out—oh my god, if you came out the wrong exit, that's a different street. So totally different.

00:32:40.930 - 00:32:53.660

And that is a nightmare. Even now, I have that nightmare. The subway. It's very difficult to navigate, even if you know how to read signs, it's—it's tricky. Yeah, but then I said, "Wow, what's wrong?

00:32:53.760 - 00:33:10.390

I'm so—so stupid." So dumb, you know? It takes time to learn the language, so then you can understand everything… That's a nightmare. The subway gave me a lot of nightmare. Really. Did you—did you use the subway or other forms of public transportation to

00:33:10.390 - 00:33:22.410

get around? Subway and bus. Yeah, but then you see, wow, it's all different people. You don't see a lot of white—you always see all those, you know, colored people. Big difference, too.

00:33:23.020 - 00:33:34.560

Yeah, and then even in Chinatown, people don't speak lang—don't speak Mandarin. They speak Taishan, not even Cantonese. You had no way to communicate with them. And back then, not a

00:33:34.560 - 00:33:47.250

lot of people from Taiwan, so not a lot of people speak Mandarin. Yeah. That's interesting. It's interesting—really. So what was the hardest thing about um, starting a new life?

00:33:48.740 - 00:34:02.340

Languages. Language? That's—that's the thing. You have, really have to learn, so I have to go the English class. But there's uh, uh, Chinatown has a Manpower, there's a class that you can take. Then, so, you

00:34:02.340 - 00:34:17.180

know, um, there's a question say, "What's your first job?" You know, I remember my first job, but I don't remember who—what's the name of the company, who is my boss—I don't remember that because back then, people don't really pay you with check.

00:34:17.410 - 00:34:27.680

They always pay you in cash. So they don't even, you know, claim the tax and everything, I think. So, oh, my father said every— everyone has to work.

00:34:28.060 - 00:34:41.820

You have to support your own. I said, "Okay then." He just, um, I think he has went to his friend. We went to the sewing factory, so that's why I can sew. See, one good thing I'm really, you know—very appreciate that time.

00:34:41.820 - 00:34:54.770

I learned that. So you, you earn by how many pieces you sew. So they're paying you like a few cents for one, for each piece. So my sister and I—my sister was, she's six years older than me,

00:34:54.770 - 00:35:08.820

and she's—she wasn't married at that time. So we went to the sewing factory, and my mom, she—you know, after they sew, there's a lot of thread in the clothes. My mama just went in to cut—cut one piece, one cent.

00:35:09.770 - 00:35:16.980

One cent. Wow. You just have to add it up gradually, right? So she just—she do that. So in the corner, after

00:35:16.980 - 00:35:28.930

we sew, there's a lot of thread—you hen duo xian zai li mian; ta jiu jian xian . But you need a special scissor. The scissors are not like the scissors that we have. So she—she does that job.

00:35:29.240 - 00:35:36.150

And my sister and I, we just sew—but in a big sewing factory. Old and dirty. I don't know even which floor—there's

00:35:36.500 - 00:35:49.640

uh, you know, the mice were running around, cockroach running around. But then, that's life. To us, well, we couldn't believe that we came to this country and what we're doing is that. We cried

00:35:49.670 - 00:36:01.680

for nine months. I cry—I always want to go home. I, I—I cannot believe Taiwan—the, the living style and—and New York. Supposed to—I mean, America's supposed to be a heaven, but then

00:36:01.680 - 00:36:18.010

it's not, like you're just going, you know, backward. So then you have no choice. That's your life. But then you just have to, so I tell my mom, "I need to, I need to, you know, go to school to learn." Then my sister—she doesn't want to go to learn

00:36:18.010 - 00:36:28.040

English. She says, "I just want to make money." She wanted to get married. That time, she already uh, uh met my brother-in-law. So they—they planned to get married. So she said she need to save all the

00:36:28.040 - 00:36:41.630

money; she doesn't have time to go to learn English. I work half-day, and in the afternoon, I went to my English class, like for second languages, but that's provided by the uh, by the um government. It was very nice.

00:36:42.040 - 00:36:54.280

So, and then in that class, I met a lot of friends from every different countries. It's interesting, too. There's some people from Hong Kong, all different

00:36:54.560 - 00:37:07.580

countries, yeah. And then I make some friends, so I start to develop some—you, you just have to have some friends, so—make your life more interesting,

00:37:08.330 - 00:37:20.610

'cause you learn a lot from the friend. Yeah, actually, friend is like a mirror to you—you're just seeing yourself when you went through 17 | P age all those friendships. So for me, it's very easy to make friends.

00:37:21.560 - 00:37:34.140

I don't know; I'm just very down-to-earth. Yeah, so your sister and you and your mother would go to work together, while your dad worked, uh, as a chef.

00:37:34.470 - 00:37:48.540

Yeah. He works in the restaurant, and we work in a sewing factory, 'cause it's all walking distance in there. But he has to take the bus 'cause he works in the uh, World Trade Center, but now it's already—yeah. He works in there, the World Trade Center.

00:37:48.580 - 00:37:58.550

There's one very, very nice uh, Chinese restaurant. He—he's a chef there. Yeah, but, yeah, we live in Chinatown—Chinatown's pretty close to the

00:37:58.550 - 00:38:13.430

City Hall. Yeah, it's not really a walking distance, but it's not very far away from Wall Street. Yeah. So, how did you—how did you get your job, um, in the sewing factory to begin with, and

00:38:13.450 - 00:38:28.390

um, was the money that you earned sufficient to, um, support the family? Okay, I think it’s through my father's friend, 'cause their wife also works in there, in those sewing factory, so I guess we find a job easily.

00:38:29.580 - 00:38:43.720

And um, the money that I made is not really need to support the family 'cause my father works, mother works a little, and then my sister—so that time, we're very old fashioned. I—the money that I made, I would keep a little bit, but most of it

00:38:43.720 - 00:38:58.530

I’ll give it all to my mother. So that's something made my mother very happy, 'cause every time I—I like to enjoy her face, you know, when she's counting the money that I made, so it's very happy. Because back—back then, not a lot of people had a lot of money.

00:38:58.870 - 00:39:09.150

You know, especially if you're a new immigrant, you know, every dollar is really important to you. Yeah, so I remember that. And then, I don't know how to spend money because you have no way to go because it's a

00:39:09.150 - 00:39:23.080

new place. It really, you know—the things you need is really limited. Yeah, so—actually that time is a pretty, pretty happy time, 'cause you… you work. Then you see the money that you

00:39:23.080 - 00:39:39.230

make. Yeah. So life was just— Yeah, did you have any other jobs after that? Um. That's first, it's there. Then after I learn a little bit of English, then um, my father said,

00:39:39.230 - 00:39:54.510

"Maybe you can be a cashier in the restaurant, like a take-out restaurant." So I went to work for his friend's uh, uh, take-out restaurant in Brooklyn. And being a cashier, you have to—first you

00:39:54.510 - 00:40:09.340

have to take the order, and uh, then you have to, uh, uh subtract everything, collect the money. Then you have to uh, help the kitchen, 'cause it's a front desk, you have to help them uh, um, to

00:40:09.340 - 00:40:20.980

divide some eggroll, and also use the oven to, uh, do the barbeque spare rib, 'cause customer ordered some. So, like, one person—you have to do everything. And then after they cooked, you

00:40:20.980 - 00:40:35.300

have to check the order, you have to pack. So I think that's a good training for me, 'cause you're using your mind, your hand, and then you standing the whole day. That's a very, very long day, from eleven o'clock all the way to,

00:40:35.400 - 00:40:51.370

like, eleven— twelve hours a day. But then that time, I can make like $600 a month—that's a very big money, you know, forty-some, thirty-some years ago. And it's all cash, so I remember my mom counting the

00:40:51.950 - 00:41:05.560

money: "I'll keep $100, you keep $500." So that time, she's very happy—she also uh, tell my, tell her friends that "I'm never enjoying my kids give me money, 'cause she's the only

00:41:05.700 - 00:41:17.630

kids that give me the money." 'Cause my two sister all married—I'm the one who give her—so she's always very happy. So when she tell my, tell her friend. So after she died, uh, her friend

00:41:17.630 - 00:41:31.680

told me, "Your mom said that she's always very happy that you're the only child that make money and give it to her." So at least I do some good things. Yeah, that's really great. Um, so when you're living with—so when you lived together with

00:41:31.680 - 00:41:47.620

your mother and father, did you preserve the family traditions? Mm, back then it's a very small, a very small apartment. Yeah, very limited you can’t do a lot of things, 'cause very small, small place—just one bedroom and I sleep in a

00:41:47.620 - 00:42:01.070

bunk bed with my sister—at that time she's not married yet. And then, my father has a room with my mother, very small. Very small living room, very small kitchen, and then the bathroom. And there's a bathtub.

00:42:01.670 - 00:42:16.060

Back then you do have a bathtub, so at least you can take a shower, which is very nice—small but it's very convenient. Yeah, still a big difference—yeah, then we need to do the laundry, down in the basement.

00:42:16.700 - 00:42:33.120

But there's an elevator also—it's interesting—a little scary in the basement, but life's very different. And then we have a window. My window is right next to a window of a Jewish—their, their—their church.

00:42:33.700 - 00:42:47.850

So there's a lot of Jewish people live on East Broadway, right behind us, so it was very—we see the rabbi—it's very interesting. And they're nice people. And, but if they have some event, they will sing in that, in that church. I always

00:42:47.850 - 00:43:01.680

enjoy their songs. Yeah, so interesting. Sometimes when I told some American friend, they'll say, "Ehh?" And I'll say, "I really enjoy pizza." When I came over, first pizza I ordered —but then, I

00:43:01.680 - 00:43:14.270

enjoyed the Jewish people making a pizza. They make pizzas very different. And at that time, one pizza cost you thirty-five cents, and then a can of a Coke—just, don't remember.

00:43:14.450 - 00:43:27.760

I remember the pizza, how much, for thirty-five cents. I really enjoy that. It's so convenient and easy, you just grab it and then you can walk and eat. Back then, the subway is also very little.

00:43:28.690 - 00:43:43.080

I don't remember how much—right now it's a few dollars, but back then, yeah, I think it's a good time, 1972. That's why I have a little hippie in—influence. So, yeah. Back then, women don't wear

00:43:43.660 - 00:44:00.640

bras. Yeah, long hair, a lot of sterling silver things on your—and I love that too. It's amazing, that's why I always like a little things on my—on my, you know.

00:44:00.640 - 00:44:12.830

Yeah, and then working in the restaurant. Sometimes you will see, uh, the silverware—so that time, people very creative, they using the spoon and fork and made your own bracelet. So I'm

00:44:12.830 - 00:44:28.020

very concentrated when I see anything—I will say, mm, you know, make the noise and heard the sound and say if that's a hundred percent sterling silver. Yeah, it's interesting. And they make very pretty. And Brooklyn has a lot of black people—they're from

00:44:28.310 - 00:44:43.280

Jamaica, Puerto Rican, they're different culture. So you see a lot of customer, they wearing things all different. And I love to ask, 'cause I'm so, I’m very curious person and—and so I always ask them, and also they will

00:44:43.280 - 00:44:57.720

bring me some of their own food, so I tried the beef patty—that's from Jamaican—so I was very surprised. I said, "Wow, their food is very different, but it's still very tasty." Yeah. So I made all

00:44:57.720 - 00:45:12.890

kinds of friends, you know, back then—people from Colombia, everywhere, I mean in the class, it's like an international—it's like United Nations, so even—that's why I’m not, people also, most of Chinese people at that time, they're afraid of black people.

00:45:13.640 - 00:45:24.010

‘Cause—you know, there's some stories, but I'm not, ‘cause, to me, I always feel like everybody's the same. People should be—should be, uh, equal.

00:45:24.710 - 00:45:37.580

There's one year, we went to Washington, D. C., and I see Lincoln's statue. I give it a very big bow; I said, I tell him that I thank him, "Without you, I won't be here

00:45:37.880 - 00:45:51.770

today." I think he has a great mind. He's very kind, he's just like a God, a Buddha, 'cause he, he feel like people should be equal, so I always have a highly respect to Lincoln. The movie just

00:45:51.770 - 00:46:01.500

came out—I haven't seen the movie yet. I would like to see it. You should—it's really good. So I have a—I have a little postcard on my refrigerator—the Lincoln statue.

00:46:02.350 - 00:46:13.140

I bought from the—from Washington, D. C. That was like ten-some years ago. I always appreciate this guy. 20 | P age Yeah, so sounds like you had a great appreciation for, like, the diversity

00:46:13.140 - 00:46:21.810

of American culture— Oh yes. —and history. What were some of the biggest ways that, you know, the 1970s, living in Brooklyn, influenced you? Okay, first of all, my name is Melody.

00:46:21.840 - 00:46:31.120

I love music. And I play the guitar, I sing. So I always think about myself, I—I was a hippie.

00:46:31.420 - 00:46:43.500

The only thing is, I don't do those, the marijuana things, I can't—I cannot do that part 'cause my father, mother, all smoke. So I think I

00:46:43.580 - 00:46:55.990

am a secondhand smoker for 20-some years, so that part, I already don't like it, but I used to have a boyfriend that did it. Everybody did that 'cause in the college, people all did those things.

00:46:55.990 - 00:47:10.470

But then, it's also a, a, a culture shock, 'cause you see all different things. It's also very, very interesting, but the best part is the music. Even now, my kids also have our

00:47:10.700 - 00:47:22.410

influence—influence from us. They enjoy our music right now. And my husband and I, we're very into music. You can see we got a lot of CD, everything. So when they were young, we

00:47:22.410 - 00:47:33.150

always play guitar and sing. We have a piano, but nobody plays. Just the kids play. So we do a lot of singing in my house, so really happy.

00:47:34.090 - 00:47:45.830

When you sing, you sing your feelings out, you don't care if you're good or bad—but it's happy. Yeah, so back then, you know, and I also enjoy um, concert.

00:47:46.870 - 00:47:58.460

Um, Broadway. Even now, we still go, my husband and I, we're very into these things. 'Cause he like opera—I cannot—I don't like opera—it makes me sleep.

00:47:59.280 - 00:48:11.020

Yeah, I wish I—he already into the classical music, but not me, I will still stay there. I still enjoy popular music. Yeah, some. Some. Like Sarah Brightman, some of them, but

00:48:12.700 - 00:48:22.460

music is a big—big things in my life. Yeah, I remember that time—I just came over, had no friend or anything, I feel very lonely.

00:48:22.690 - 00:48:40.080

So in the English class, I have a teacher that he has a curly hair, an American guy, and he always carried a guitar, so I ask him, "Can you teach me to play?" And he said, "Oh yeah, you want to learn?" I said, "I always want to learn," but back then, uh, you don't have

00:48:40.120 - 00:48:52.360

that kind of opportunity. And um, he said, "Okay, then you have to um, buy a guitar first." And I say, "Oh yeah." So I tell my mom, and she said, "Okay, you save $100. One day then you can buy a

00:48:52.360 - 00:49:01.850

guitar." So I did. The very first year, I bought a guitar, even still have that guitar. Wow. Yeah, I don't play, but my husband still play. Um, do you want to see it?

00:49:02.580 - 00:49:13.520

Um, sure! You know why? 'Cause I want to see you something very hippie. I was a flower child. Don't think I'm too crazy?

00:49:13.970 - 00:49:39.810

No, I- definitely not. It's kind of dirty, but this is my—it's old, you know. Dust. You see the flower?

00:49:39.810 - 00:49:52.710

I had it for 40 years. Oh, wow! Did you stick these on yourself? Yeah! 40 years.

00:49:53.180 - 00:50:03.370

Wow, this is beautiful. Yeah, it's from Argentina. Look at the—look at the— $100. Back then, $100 is a lot.

00:50:03.470 - 00:50:16.620

That's amazing. And still very good. Oh, I used to sing, "Michael row the boat"— I sing a lot of folk songs. Yeah.

00:50:18.360 - 00:50:32.980

Interesting—happy, happy. And then there's a lot of sad things, tears, but also has a bright side as well, the happy times. With that, so I start to learn, and then when you practice at home, very small apartment,

00:50:33.220 - 00:50:47.180

people go crazy. Okay, so I found a place—I found a stairway in the apartment, and then it's very warm 'cause we have the heat—New York is very cold during wintertime. So I'm just inside the stairway—I practiced.

00:50:48.030 - 00:51:02.630

I'm very happy. So I can have something. And then, you find some music books, and you just follow, 'cause I cannot read the music, but I learn from my ear and then just simple chords.

00:51:03.220 - 00:51:15.510

And then you sing along, and then you can play. So very first few years, that's how I pass my, my time. And then you—when you feel homesick, then you can sing some songs. Yeah.

00:51:15.510 - 00:51:23.520

So really appreciate that thing, so I always carry this one wherever I go. If I want to run away the home, I have to have this with me, 'cause that's mine.

00:51:26.090 - 00:51:37.980

To me, this has a lot of value. So did you change your name to Melody? Or was it—? Actually, in Chinese, name is Mei-Ching—that means beautiful melody.

00:51:38.300 - 00:51:49.920

So my English teacher gave me this: Melody. And then, that time in New York, I had a, I joined a singing contest, and I won the very first place. Great! But not too many people have a—in the contest.

00:51:50.760 - 00:52:02.420

But then, there's a lot of events, has some show, people always ask me, "Would you like to sing on the stage?" I said, "Yeah, why not?" 'Cause I really, you know, have no comparison. You don't know how good—how bad—you are.

00:52:02.420 - 00:52:09.590

You just love to sing. So I don't care—I'm not afraid. You want me to be on the stage? That's fine. I just get on the stage.

00:52:09.630 - 00:52:21.270

Yeah, that's the best attitude to have. Yeah, yeah, so I just sing! So, and then, teacher give me this name, and I say, "Melody? Mm, I like that." Yeah, so just carry on—but most of the time people call me Mei-Ching,

00:52:21.850 - 00:52:33.420

the family calls me Mei-Ching. But for American people, easy to remember you—Melody is a very easy name to remember. Yeah. And then I think my personality just like that!

00:52:33.990 - 00:52:44.080

Definitely. You agree with me? Yeah! I'm a little crazy. My father will say, "Oh my, my daughter, she's so crazy. Hyper, hyper." And I'll say, "Father, I'm a happy hyper."

00:52:46.200 - 00:53:00.210

So, it sounds like a very happy time. Your personality influence everything, you know, and you can't change your personality. So basically, I think I'm a happy person. Even though a lot of sad things happen, but I think

00:53:00.210 - 00:53:14.540

people forgive easily sometimes. And life go on. That's true. Right? If you always stay in that set corner, nothing gonna change. You know, actually, then human being, when you're born, that day,

00:53:16.170 - 00:53:26.890

you're waiting for your death, right? But then, in that journey, your itinerary, you can make difference there. Destination is already too late—you're already there.

00:53:27.290 - 00:53:40.000

But the itinerary, we can do a lot of stuff. So I choose—I want to be a happy person, even though my mom pass away when I was twenty-five, father pass away when I was thirty-five. I have a younger brother pass away when I was fifty.

00:53:40.630 - 00:53:54.900

So everything fit in five—e ven my birthday, and also five, it's so weird. But in Chinese wu —that mean nothing. So I think life just like that. Everything till the end's all nothing.

00:53:56.580 - 00:54:17.110

So I want to live my life. Yeah, so how did you come to live in Houston? I just marry one year, and then I feel like New York is not really a good place to raise kids. So my brother came down here to visit his friend.

00:54:17.570 - 00:54:33.390

So he tell us that, 'cause that time, 30-some years ago, not a lot of people in Houston, not a lot of Chinese people in Houston. See, like this house was built in 1980-something; I came over in 1978-1979.

00:54:33.440 - 00:54:45.480

This house built 1981. So back then, this is nothing. So it's a new place, so they develop, and then, the climate is very similar like in Taiwan.

00:54:45.930 - 00:54:58.500

So it's a place that people say that for Chinese, you can really have a good life in here. So we came down and visit, and then we feel like, yeah, why not? So we just sold everything and then come down to here to start with nothing.

00:54:59.880 - 00:55:13.620

Yeah, that's how I started. But actually, it's a big change, 'cause um, that time, if you—you can find a job in the newspaper, so I found a job at Chevron Oil Company.

00:55:14.310 - 00:55:26.750

But back then, it's a three shift—'cause I don't have a degree—it's like a computer operator—so everything's new, you know. So it's okay, you know,

00:55:26.820 - 00:55:40.540

you still young, have no kids, just married one year. So my husband—I want him to go to school to finish his degree, but he goes to school during the day; he works at night in the restaurant as a

00:55:40.600 - 00:55:58.540

waiter. We live in the apartment, so not too bad, I work in the oil company. I don't know how long—maybe a year later, I found out I was pregnant. And then, they promote me—because we work very hard, right?—they promote me to

00:55:58.540 - 00:56:10.320

be a regular shift in the tape library. So I was a librarian for a long time. But then, the things that you need to—it's not the books, it's all the tapes—the tapes are very heavy, so you have

00:56:10.320 - 00:56:28.590

to up and down. So when I have my two kids and I think, kind of, Zhong Guo ren jiang… suo yi wo de liang ge hai zi dou shi breech baby. Suo yi wo liang ge C-section; wo liang ge dou shi C-section . Yeah. Well, but I still very grateful, hen gan xie,

00:56:29.740 - 00:56:41.820

back then, oil company have very good uh, insurance. We don't have anything, we still live in apartment, but then, when you have very good insurance, then you don't have to worry, even though I had C-section kids.

00:56:41.820 - 00:56:52.810

But when you have a C-section, you have to stay in hospital longer, like a few more days—that gonna cost you money too. But oil company had very good benefit about that. So I really, really

00:56:52.810 - 00:57:07.600

appreciate that. So I have two kids—always say, "Hey, you guys are the Chevron baby," 'cause I was, back then, working in Chevron. But then, in 1987, oil price go down, so a lot of, you know, company closed.

00:57:07.840 - 00:57:21.600

I think it's like, very first stage of crisis, so the Gulf Oil Company merged with Chevron. And then that time, there are two company people; there are too many employee, so they tried to lay off and cut down.

00:57:22.200 - 00:57:34.770

And we wish they will lay me off so you can get some severance pay, but they didn't lay off me. They transfer me to—transfer me back to the computer operator. Then I have to work um, three shifts.

00:57:35.710 - 00:57:47.580

So for the graveyard shift, I couldn't—I couldn’t handle it. You know why? I could not sleep during the day. And I have two kids. They're very little. So in that case, I have to quit

00:57:47.580 - 00:58:00.620

the job, so when you volunteer to quit the job, you don't get anything, so I was crying very, very, very hard. And then, you had no choice. And at that time, my father pass away, so everything happened in 1987,

00:58:01.130 - 00:58:13.790

and my daughter only two year old, my son's only five year old. So I just quit the job, and stay home for a little while. Then I say, "Mm, I need to go back to school." So I go back to community college

00:58:13.860 - 00:58:27.280

another year, 'cause my major was accounting. So I start to learn typing, everything, 'cause that time computers are really booming. So uh, just for 1988, that whole year, I was in the school for a

00:58:27.280 - 00:58:40.300

whole year. Then, 1989, I come like—I feel like, well I really need to work, 'cause one income's not— not, you know—it’s not going to help. And we already bought a house that time.

00:58:41.040 - 00:58:54.480

So I really need to work. So I went, I went—I always make my own resume to go to all places, 'cause I know—to some people, it's very difficult. To me, I already came here so long, I don't think that

00:58:54.480 - 00:59:09.770

it's a—you know—you have to save your face, but I say, "Well, you know, reality is more important. Your—your family needs income." So I went to all different places. Then, one day, I went into a bank, and I asked the lady, "Do you guys

00:59:09.830 - 00:59:20.670

need anybody?" And then she look at me and she said, "Oh yeah, we need a part-time. Would you like to start it?" I said, "Oh yeah, 'cause I have two kids—part time would be perfect for me." So

00:59:21.410 - 00:59:31.410

six dollars an hour—very first, first time. Then I just walk in there and start to work. And then that was 1989. They hire me, I started

00:59:31.580 - 00:59:45.330

in January. Then, all the way to 2009, I work in the bank, for almost twenty years. I always appreciate that lady. Sometimes I still call her and get in touch with that.

00:59:46.160 - 01:00:00.980

She was our manager, very nice lady. So without her, 'cause she had a, you know, open door for me, for that opportunity—otherwise, I will not get into banking business. But to me, it's a new, uh, it’s a new,

01:00:00.980 - 01:00:17.020

things, but then I have a little background in accounting, so you know, debit and credit. You know, she interview me and then we talk a little bit, and she said, "Oh, you know, just come to work." So life started there.

01:00:17.410 - 01:00:31.290

That's great! So um, what was your workplace like and what were your relationships with your coworkers and boss like? Like I said, I'm very easy to make friends, so even now, I still have friends from all those years.

01:00:31.700 - 01:00:43.520

Yeah, I have all different friend. I have—I mean different—they're from different countries—I have very good friend from Korea, and Philippines, and Vienna, uh, Americans

01:00:43.520 - 01:00:56.740

also—so I had all different kind of friends. Even now, we still see each other from time to time. So life, it's interesting, and all those friends—very grateful.

01:00:56.740 - 01:01:08.270

You really learn a lot from each individual, 'cause everybody all very different. So when you first started working in Houston, were there um, any other Asian Americans in

01:01:08.270 - 01:01:19.100

the same field um, compared to now? Back then, not too many. Yeah. Only one in your department. It’s uh—I sat with that lady;

01:01:19.100 - 01:01:28.790

she's like 21 year older than me. She was there already a while. I also learn something from her too, 'cause we all from Taiwan, and her family

01:01:30.400 - 01:01:45.230

is a little bit different from my family, so I learn a lot from her. Yeah, but she already pass away, it's really sad. Yeah, so I guess every woman has all her, all different kinds of story in their life.

01:01:45.910 - 01:02:00.430

Interesting. So I learn a lot from everybody, so that way, you—sometimes you have to think—to purify a lot of things. Then you think, which will be the best for you. Yeah, so that's very important.

01:02:01.720 - 01:02:13.970

So it takes a lot of time. And yes, we do make mistakes— I make a lot of mistakes because my personality. I'm very straightforward; sometimes when I say things without my thinking, I hurt somebody and I don't even

01:02:13.970 - 01:02:22.980

know. Yeah, that—things happen—very many are like that too. But I still have a good friends, but there's sometimes I hurt some people's feeling.

01:02:23.410 - 01:02:35.490

If they nice, they tell me. Some people don't, they will not tell you; then, just can't be, you know, very close, good friends. Yeah, so um, did you ever face any discrimination in the

01:02:35.490 - 01:02:50.650

workplace in terms of income, or, um, were you promoted, um, easily? You know, to that, sometime your own people—it's even harder to deal with.

01:02:52.030 - 01:03:04.480

Um, because the tradition, the culture difference, you cannot say discrimination and racist. Even your own people sometimes it's a lot—the politics, everywhere, you know….

01:03:13.980 - 01:03:31.120

Um, for twenty-some years in banking, 'cause I always work in Chinese bank. Chinese bank, those people in, um—your boss, your board of director— they all are Chinese.

01:03:32.000 - 01:03:42.970

Sometime even harder to deal with your own people. I don't know, uh, maybe we not very open-minded. But that still depends on the

01:03:43.020 - 01:03:58.230

people, so uh, there are some experience I have in banking—it wasn't very, um… But then, I always think, you have to think about yourself—jiu xiang wo men shuo , you fan xing zi ji, like what you can offer to people, right?

01:03:59.210 - 01:04:18.140

It’s your ability, or something. Sometimes you can't blame about they discriminate about this and that. And um, some Chinese bank, they have all the employee there, there, is someone's relative.

01:04:19.040 - 01:04:29.000

Their relative is the board of director. They're a relative of the president, this and that. That make it harder to work together. Right. I don't know you understand this or that.

01:04:29.750 - 01:04:43.670

Yeah, it's not, uh, bi jiao bu shi zhen me ping den . Ying wei ta men yi jin shuo, "o, wo de, wo de shi lao ban, shi shen me, shi shen me is my so-and-so. Yeah, that's called nepotism, when you hire your relatives; it's unfair.

01:04:44.220 - 01:04:57.700

Yeah, suo yi you de shi hou ni —you'll feel some unfair, but you couldn't say anything. Right. Yeah, even when the—your promotion, end of the year, you da kao ji, right?

01:04:58.180 - 01:05:11.120

So sometimes, you know that you work harder, you do more, you're much better, but then sometime you get—don't get the uh, reward. Yeah, and that hurts, but what can you say? You know, if you

01:05:11.120 - 01:05:22.640

don't really, uh, not very happy, then you can just change the bank. That's why I change five banks in the twenty years. Oh, so was it the same branch, or like, different—?

01:05:23.270 - 01:05:37.200

Different bank. Different Chinese bank. So I came here longer than a lot of people, so for me, I'm more open-hearted, more open-minded. So I think you have to be equal or be fair, so

01:05:37.650 - 01:05:52.670

sometimes I think it's not fair, so I change the—I change place. That's why I always—some people will, like, stay in one bank, and then work forever. For me, I went to American bank, then I go to Chinese bank—I want to see the difference.

01:05:54.120 - 01:06:07.300

So I try, I try out. For me, I think I can deal with all different kind of people, but then, I'm curious about maybe the other banks have different system, different people, will have different environment.

01:06:07.920 - 01:06:18.080

So I change five banks, for I work for twenty years. Pretty crazy. Yeah. Yeah. What languages did you speak—like were there differences between the languages

01:06:18.080 - 01:06:32.130

you spoke um, at home, in the Chinese bank, and the American bank when you were working? Okay, in the beginning, at home, my parent don't speak Mandarin; my parent only speak Shanghainese, so my mother tongue is Shanghainese. But then, when you go to school, you have

01:06:32.160 - 01:06:49.900

to speak Mandarin, but job, for bank, yes, you—I speak, you know, Mandarin, 'cause your customer, at least like seventy-five percent, they’re all Chinese, 'cause I work in Chinese bank. And I

01:06:49.900 - 01:07:02.280

speak Man—Shanghainese till the very end; it really helps, 'cause a lot of people from Shanghai. So that helps too. Yeah, and I was born in Taiwan, raised in Taiwan, and I speak

01:07:02.280 - 01:07:14.350

Taiwanese; I understand Taiwanese. So that help too. So I, you know, in the end, it counts like it’s advantage for you that you can speak different dialect. Language—Mandarin, you know, of

01:07:14.350 - 01:07:25.300

its— languages. But this dialogue—Cantonese, when you're here too long, you have a lot of Cantonese friends. Then you can understand, you can speak a little bit too.

01:07:25.700 - 01:07:39.190

So I can speak a few dialects. To me, that's not very hard 'cause if you have a good memories, then you can learn faster and easier. Yeah, so I like to learn from different things.

01:07:40.160 - 01:07:53.580

That's why I say that I graduate from the society. You graduate from, zai she hui da xue , community. That's a really important skill to have.

01:07:54.250 - 01:08:08.560

Yeah, yeah. So then, that way, it will help you to communicate with people. So, okay la. So um, um, in your life, leading up to this point, what—what networks have been the most

01:08:08.560 - 01:08:23.570

important? Like, you mentioned Buddhism—any social networks, um, professional networks, family networks— which ones were the most important? Mmm… After you retire, you feel like

01:08:23.650 - 01:08:34.700

family's the most important. So it depends on what, you know, position you have or what level that you're there. Like, if you're working, yes, there's

01:08:34.700 - 01:08:47.630

a lot of work—working environment—employee, your coworker, friends. But after you have—you already went through everything, then it comes down to your family. So sisters—I'm

01:08:47.630 - 01:08:58.780

lucky, lucky—very lucky—I have two sisters. They live in here, and we still talk to each other, we still see each other. And uh, kids—they finished their college.

01:08:59.540 - 01:09:10.800

I'm not wish them want to be—some, some, something, but at least they finished college. I like—I feel like they finished my dream for me, so I really appreciate them.

01:09:11.380 - 01:09:26.370

They're just very ordinary people—kids. But, I'm happy that they have their degree, so they all have a good job. My son's working in a uh, uh masting and engineer company—he's an engineer.

01:09:26.930 - 01:09:39.000

Then m y daughter—she works in uh, uh, a software company. She's a sales coordinator; she's always traveling a lot. So yeah, very happy person.

01:09:39.980 - 01:09:54.230

I'm glad I'm not very narrow-minded. They can, you know, be friendly with all kinds of nationalities. If they want to marry different nationality, yes, I agree. Whenever they're happy, then they'll be healthy.

01:09:54.880 - 01:10:09.080

And then they can become something. So—wo men bu shi you hen da ye xing. Yeah, as long as they're healthy and happy, then do whatever they want to do, and they, and they

01:10:09.080 - 01:10:22.530

know—they're already very mature—they, they know what to choose, what's right and wrong. Yeah, most of the time, my husband—he's the one that disciplinary things; I'm the one that support them, cook, you

01:10:22.530 - 01:10:39.340

know, just… do all the everything in the family—that's my job. So we play different parts. Yeah, so, um, what influence has Buddhism had on your life and your kids' lives? You know, they not—they not really go to temple with me,

01:10:40.020 - 01:10:57.180

but um, they don't really believe— but I think more or less, eventually, they will have a little influence because we always care about people, you know, like you doing some volunteer work.

01:10:58.230 - 01:11:15.080

So they're also very caring about their friend, their relatives, and everything, even though they don't go to temple with me. So they, like, I worship my god, like I do some ceremonies for their, you know, their ancestor,

01:11:16.060 - 01:11:33.020

and I also took them back home to Taiwan. We went to the graveyard to—to just pay some respect to the elderly, so they will go with us, and they also think that's very important, too.

01:11:33.850 - 01:11:49.700

Yeah, so I think your parents' attitude really influence your kids. Yeah. Yeah, even the music that we listen and they love too, Yeah, so, sometime they will— they can talk about it, and then

01:11:49.700 - 01:12:05.000

not really bragging with their friend, but they're also, "Oh, I know that song too, because of my parents used to play." Yeah, and then, they told us some, you know, my daughter, one time, their teacher found that very, very strange, and "This is not your

01:12:05.000 - 01:12:17.110

generation." And they'll say, "Oh, you know, my parents always sing that when I was little." Yeah, so it's really influence. So I think family education is a more—much, much more important—and,

01:12:18.210 - 01:12:31.560

and influence kids more. So does that mean that family-oriented is more important? Jiu shi jia ting guan nian, jia ting jiao yu hao de hua, xiao hai dou… Ni tong yi, ma?

01:12:33.250 - 01:12:43.150

Yeah, I think so. I think family environment is very important in how a person develops. Wo bu hui yong ne xie zi... No, you're fine!

01:12:43.630 - 01:12:49.850

So you said you went back to Taiwan. How many times have you gone back— Oh, many, many times. —and have your kids come with you?

01:12:49.970 - 01:13:01.820

Yeah, one time. We- I really want them to go to my parents' cemetery and uh, their—their, my husband's side. So we went, and my husband had a very big family.

01:13:02.590 - 01:13:14.380

They have ten—ten kids, right? My husband is the youngest one. So I took them, they met all their uncle and aunt, and it's very interesting. And also, in our family, my husband is very straight.

01:13:14.730 - 01:13:28.500

Um, when they talk to us, no English. There're only two of them; they speak English. So because that, when we went home to Taiwan, they can communicate with their aunt and their uncle, and they're all

01:13:28.500 - 01:13:41.380

very happy. Yeah, so even my son, he can speak very good Mandarin and my daughter also. But she's lazy and sometimes she try to get away, um, but she can understand because my

01:13:41.380 - 01:13:50.790

two sister, they don't speak English. Yeah, and my older brother also. So they have to speak Chinese with them, so that's a good part for them.

01:13:51.740 - 01:14:05.730

Yeah, but then, my, my daughter—she hang around with all the Caucasian kids. She graduate from Clements; she was a cheerleader; she's very outgoing. Yeah, and she just—she was only in high school

01:14:05.900 - 01:14:15.970

for three years. She graduate early, 1 year early, then she went to college. Ta ye bu shi shuo hen cong ming, zhi shi hen hui socialize. You hen duo peng you.

01:14:16.900 - 01:14:27.340

She's a happy person. My son, very quiet. Cong lai mei you guo nu peng you. Zhe shi ye bu shi duo dan xing, dan okay.

01:14:28.050 - 01:14:40.540

I respect whatever their decision, yeah, because their life, because we can't be forever with them, so when we're still alive, we just try to, uh, you know.

01:14:40.540 - 01:14:53.920

My husband and I, we have some plan, we traveling every other year. So we already visit uh, ten countries. Wow, that's great. I love traveling. I really love traveling, so very happy.

01:14:53.920 - 01:15:07.330

You open your view when you see different things, you know, and uh, we read a lot too. I like to read some books, I really enjoy them. Before you go traveling, you always have to , you know, study,

01:15:08.380 - 01:15:24.190

read a lot about that country—so when you go, you feel like ni hui dui ta you gan qing . That's what we do, so I think quality is much more important than the quantity. Suo yi , we're not rich, but we live very comfortably.

01:15:25.800 - 01:15:38.820

So I think this country really give us the opportunity. As long as you're not very lazy, you can, you know, find a job, you work, you get your reward. Yeah, and… really have a really good

01:15:39.140 - 01:15:54.240

life in here. The environment's—it's just like heaven. People live in Sugar Land, what else you can ask, right? Yeah, compare to a lot of places—because we went through all different country, then we know how lucky we

01:15:54.240 - 01:16:05.780

can to be living in the United States. Zhen de, bu shi pian ren . Yeah, I went to Spain, back in 2000— no, 2001—right after, ne ge , 9/11,

01:16:07.270 - 01:16:21.100

right after a month later, 'cause we already got the ticket and everything. Yeah, so when I know, you know, transfer airplane in New York, I really feel like my heart is crying 'cause when the Twin Tower building, you know, when

01:16:21.100 - 01:16:34.310

they crash, I cry with them, 'cause my father used to work there. And I lived there for, you know, very close to that area. I just cannot work that day; I feel like very sad, 'cause and uh, this is my

01:16:34.310 - 01:16:45.520

second hometown, New York. I know that place so well. I always tell people, "Hey, you guys go with me. We can save money; we take the train; we

01:16:45.620 - 01:16:59.540

take the bus; take the ferry to uh, Staten Island." It's free! Yeah, you know, you can get a um, cheaper ticket for the Broadway show in the nighttime, going to the ticket, try in the Times Square.

01:16:59.540 - 01:17:15.230

Yeah, you see a lot of good memories. Yeah. So life, I think, is wonderful. So that's why right now, we still think that, you know, my father—he made a very, very big and smart decision as

01:17:15.560 - 01:17:28.150

brought us here. We're really lucky. Really. And here, the air pollution is not bad like back home. Right now, the air pollution is bad, and population-wise, everything here is,

01:17:29.340 - 01:17:42.470

you know, you just have a job, you do your work, then you will have at least basic, you know, living style that you can enjoy. Yeah, so I think life here is—can't complain.

01:17:44.790 - 01:17:56.350

So when you go back to Taiwan, are there any changes that you've noticed, like when you visit your old neighborhood? Um, how are things different or the same from what you remember? Very different.

01:17:57.180 - 01:18:09.500

I went back last year. I went back for a whole month. You feel like this place, it's new—it's not the place that you used to know. A little sad, but also happy for those

01:18:09.570 - 01:18:26.420

people that live there. You need to improve; sometimes change is good. Um, right now, it's very nice. It's, yeah, even though still very crowded—but there's uh too many motorcycle on the

01:18:26.560 - 01:18:42.060

street. And they—a lot of noise. So when I was there for a whole month, I cannot hear my ear, so—like right now, I can hear my ear ringing—but back then you cannot hear ear ringing, 'cause

01:18:42.100 - 01:18:56.260

it's too noise on the street, you know, all kinds of noise. But when I came back, I say, "Mmm? How come? What's wrong? So quiet!" Oh, I hear my ear ringing here. It's a big

01:18:56.260 - 01:19:07.370

difference. But then, the food, you really miss, right? And uh, people, very warm, and they speak your own languages. It's very warm also.

01:19:08.210 - 01:19:23.800

Uh, I always went home when my—I have a, okay—I have five good friend even now, forty-some years. We still get in touch with each other. I'll tell them, your guys, um, your kids get married, I will come.

01:19:24.480 - 01:19:36.060

So always, every other year, some kids get married, I will, I will go home. I love to see all my, you know, good friend from junior high school, good friend from high school—we still get in touch with each other.

01:19:37.010 - 01:19:50.440

One of them also come to visit me also. Um, I—I love some oldies, even my old friends, okay? So every other year, or sometime, maybe a four-year, five-year, I went home, we always have a

01:19:50.540 - 01:20:05.820

little reunion. Yeah, and um, those are the best time. And you see people change, some—most of them, they divorced, very sad. Yeah, I always feel very sad.

01:20:05.820 - 01:20:20.880

I think marriage is, you know, actually, marriage is a very torturing things. That's a big part too, in your life, so I feel so sorry that, you know, people had divorce, 'cause when you went through that, it's like,

01:20:22.110 - 01:20:34.740

hao xiang buo li chen pi... hen, hen, hen shang . So I feel so sorry that, you know, a few friend that they had a divorce, and then they alone. Um, they do some volunteer work;

01:20:35.290 - 01:20:50.010

they have to. If they not, they really very lonely. I have one or two good friend that never been married—I don't know why they can't find anybody. Sometime I really wondering why, so I always think that God made us

01:20:50.380 - 01:20:59.620

somebody for someone, right? But then, she's always alone. So that's very sad too. Even though marriage is torture, but then

01:20:59.620 - 01:21:10.460

sometime, you really have to have that experience. Then you'll feel your life, you didn't waste your life in this world. But I'm happy to see them.

01:21:10.500 - 01:21:21.530

They also very happy to see me. But usually, they don't see each other. Always when I go home, then they will come to see each other. So if I'm not there, then they just have their own life, you know.

01:21:22.640 - 01:21:35.930

That's why they happy when I go home—then, every time, I will buy a whole case of stuff for them, and they will give me a whole case of stuff. So I feel very warm, so I see a lot of things, you know—so human.

01:21:36.620 - 01:21:51.020

And our hearts are always very close. So, and we all—we mostly have the same religion. If you have the same religion, somehow you will go, you know, come together with a lot of things in common.

01:21:51.830 - 01:22:04.520

Yeah, it will be easier. Like me, right now, I don't eat a lot of meat. I'm not because Buddhism— I'm not that kind enough to not kill—I still love to eat seafood, but I'm not a

01:22:04.520 - 01:22:18.860

meat-eater. But then, also, they start to be a—some start to become vegetarian or something. Yeah, so I think people get older, they get wiser. And then, we all try to live our life simple.

01:22:21.340 - 01:22:35.150

Yeah, and you're getting old; you're aging—a lot of things you can't do anymore 'cause your physical—uh, not allow you to do a lot of stuff. So we have to cut down on our stuff. Yeah, but

01:22:36.010 - 01:22:51.590

sit- sit in the rocking chair and fall in your memories—. Oh, life is very colorful. Yeah, so friendship, I think, is very important in our life. Yeah, and families.

01:22:52.960 - 01:23:04.470

Brother and sisters—they are so dear, you fight and, you, you know, have all kinds of things happen, but still a family’s—still a family. Yeah.

01:23:04.930 - 01:23:17.150

Well, thank you so much for sharing your story. Oh, I have lots of story. You see I'm 60-year-old, I have so much story I can share! Well, are there any other memories, um, like from Houston, that you would like to share in particular?

01:23:17.500 - 01:23:32.080

Hmm. Too much. It depends on which, but I think oh, all I can say—life is beautiful, really. Yeah, life is beautiful.

01:23:32.170 - 01:23:46.740

If you can appreciate, then you will count your blessing. Uh, then your desire has, you know, getting a little by little—you cut off everything.

01:23:47.270 - 01:24:03.770

You just want to be health- healthy. I'm not worried about—too much about my future, 'cause you already have very colorful— everything, you know, you see your itinerary got lots of memories in there. Yeah, so I guess it's no regret—even though

01:24:04.100 - 01:24:18.230

you make mistake, you do things, you hurt people, but then you think that, "Oh, oh yes, it's my fault." Then you—you have to be honest and tell them, say, "I'm so sorry, it's my fault." And then all the people hurting you in your

01:24:18.230 - 01:24:32.770

life—you just have to forgive and forget. You have to. If you—if you don't do that, you won't be happy. So, so that's why I'm very simple person, I'm just happy, that's it.

01:24:33.460 - 01:24:42.870

What else you can—you already have everything, you know—you don't worry about this and that, you know. For this time, this stage, everything already have a foundation.

01:24:43.440 - 01:24:55.320

So you just enjoy your life, just wish everybody is healthy and happy, that's all. So I do exercise in the morning. I walk a whole hour in the morning, for many years. You have to.

01:24:56.030 - 01:25:05.890

So right now, it just uh—l azy. I have to push myself to go out to do some volunteer work. I'm just lazy right now; I'm just being too comfortable.

01:25:07.490 - 01:25:19.230

So you volunteer um, at the temple, um? Yeah, but I—I'm not like my two sisters. They really devoted it, but I—I'm not that much, 'cause husband's not very supportive.

01:25:19.730 - 01:25:31.330

So you do something that when he's not there, you can do something. If he's home, then I'm home. I'm still very old-fashioned, you know, 'cause I think family um, the harmony is very important.

01:25:31.710 - 01:25:47.490

If you don't have that, you want to do your things, you know, against the—the atmosphere won't be happy. So I try to fit in, just like that. Yeah, anyway, for my age, you can be, you know, too much on your own.

01:25:47.490 - 01:25:59.740

You want this and that, you always disagree, then it's not very happy. So sometimes, I just let go a lot of my desire. So I read, and then right now I have a computer—computer has everything.

01:26:00.560 - 01:26:16.980

Thank God the computer—. Really, I enjoy it a lot—we can learn a lot of things from the, you know... I don't watch soap opera, 'cause I don't have the patience. Sometime soap opera makes me sick. You know why? 'Cause you wanna know what's the end—so you just

01:26:17.490 - 01:26:30.110

sacrifice your sleep, so I try not to get into that. But then I just see some Travel Channel, there's a lot on Discovery, there's a lot of things from different things that happen in the world.

01:26:30.690 - 01:26:44.730

And yeah, so you can learn a lot of things in there, so you won't get Alzheimer's, right? Yeah. Well, um, that's it, basically. Thank you so much for agreeing to do this interview.

01:26:44.730 - 01:26:59.340

Aw, I'm very happy, I'm very happy that I go through, you know, my childhood until now. It's just like I'm doing my own—what's that called—zhi zhuan—biography? Autobiography. Autobiography, yeah. So, wo gen wo de jie jie jiang, shuo zhe xiao hai zi yao lai, fang

01:26:59.340 - 01:27:09.180

wen wo . Ta bang wo xie yi ge zhi zhuan , oh my God. And so, "What I'm gonna tell her?" Whole night, I couldn't sleep—I thought a lot of things—wo hai xiang shuo , and I took some notes.

01:27:09.180 - 01:27:19.210

And then I say, "Oh no, there's some—a lot of sad things, I'm not gonna talk about that." And there's some things not very happy—oh, not gonna talk about that. Everything is important.

01:27:19.480 - 01:27:34.510

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Life is crazy sometimes. Yeah. But then still, it's—it's yourself. Everything happen—it's—you're the one that cause everything. So good or bad,

01:27:34.590 - 01:27:46.030

just—you can only blame yourself, or you try to change yourself. Then you, you know, make the things the best, that's all. Mm-hm, mm-hm. That's very true. Yes.