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Today is February 3rd 2021. My name is Ann Shi. I'm the associate curator at the Houston Asian American Archive. Today we're interviewing Mrs.

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May Iting Lu, thank you so much for joining us today. You're more than welcome. To start, can you share with us when and where were you born? I was born August 8, 1945 in Chongqing, China.

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Chongqing, at that time was the war capital of China. My parents fled from Shanghai to Chongqing. It took them like a couple years, with their friends, all of them— like eight of them to Chongqing.

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And right after the war, I was born. At that time, my parents were in poor health, very broke. But they have me, and I belong to the first group of the baby boomers; and older than President

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Clinton a little bit. But anyway, my parents took me back to Shanghai through struggle. And then they stay less than a couple of years, they find out there is a big civil war

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in China. And my grandmother told them said, "Bring your younger brother and sisters to go to Taiwan," that back then it's much more peaceful.

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You can find job and everything. So my parents, more or less spend the first 20 years of their life after marriage, it's becoming immigrant-immigrant. You know, back in the war time in Sichuan

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Province, it's very hot and spicy. They never got used to the hot, spicy and humid weather. And then they move to Taiwan, it's a totally different thing. So my parents with the...

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my uncles and aunts, all squeezing in a small Japanese style house. That's all they could afford. Then they rush to go to find jobs.

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So through 1949 up to 1966. I was there. So I was raised— my– my years there, important time for me, because I— to this day, I

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still connected with my way— school, still— classmate, high school classmate, even college classmate. Even I came to the United

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States in 1966, went to three different graduate schools, I never connected with their classmates still to this day. Any more questions? Yeah. So, that sounds a very

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tumultuous childhood moving so much. Do you mind sharing when your earliest memory of your childhood was? Was it in Chongqing? My earliest childhood memory is

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my parents keep on learning things. My father had fever, I think he had something in Chongqing. He never recovered, then through this whole thing.

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You know, it took them like two three weeks, from Shanghai to Keelung, the seaport of Taiwan. So my mother was the one venture out. She bought two books; one is how to

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learn English typing, because she was a major— French major in college. But she knew English typing is new thing back in the 40s and 50s.

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And another book is how to learn Taiwanese. Because back then they were fascinated, because the local Taiwanese people, so

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many temples. It's not Buddhist temple. It's a Mazu temple, you know. Because at that time, back to the

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old days, it was a fishing village. A lot of fishermen so they were making a lot of dangerous thing at the ocean. All go to the temple.

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So my parents, are easy to venture out to learn things. Very open minded. Because our last name, Zhuó, actually originally from Fujian.

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When my father was in Beijing, when he was brought, brought up; it's because his grandfather become, you know, — how do you translate English? In Qing Dynasty.

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So the family, the whole family, my father's family moved to Beijing. So he learned all the, you know, the Mandarin from Beijing; it's like movie stars’ Mandarin. Okay.

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But you know, now you move to Taiwan. And the- his last name— back in Beijing, nobody has their last name. The minute we move to Taiwan, a lot of Taiwanese merchants or neighbors said, "You and I

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have the same last name. We may be related some 100 years ago, where are you from?" Because so many Chinese came by all different parts of China,

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to Taiwan. So they are curious. My father had to say, "Originally, I'm from Fujian." They said, "Oh, you my cousins." So my father said, since they are so open minded to us, why we are not open minded to

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them? So through my childhood years, my father always said, "That's very different than the other people. You marry to the same people of your village. Or, you're married to the people have same educational

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background." Like, I'm pretty sure, Ann, when you go to college, your parents probably say, "Don't have boyfriends until you're old enough; then you're old enough, they keep on asking, 'when are you going to

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get married?'" My parents on the opposite. They don't say this. He said, "If you can find Taiwanese, go marry to Taiwanese." I say, "Why?" Because my father said, "Chinese because they are so narrow

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minded. They divide northern people, southern people, local people. We are from the same village, you must be nice. The other people from the north must be mean." My father said,

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"Because I'm a teacher, I see all the goodness of every part. They just different. So if you want to stay in Taiwan, you better marry the local people."

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Except when I go to United States, my father set a different rule. You can marry any kind of people now, except Japanese. Because Japanese soldier killed my brother.

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Other than Japanese, you can marry every kind. I, to this date, I'm still impressed with his open mindedness and peaceful and loving times.

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Because that should be the way of Chinese mind. Because through 1000 years, we are assemble into one. Actually were all different. And the reason why I come to the United States,

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you probably didn't know, in the mid-60s, US has changed. US government. They become more liberal, just like John F. Kennedy as

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President, or LBJ, Johnson President. During that time, there was a Vietnam War. But they feel there is a need to encourage foreign students to come here to

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pursuing science research, especially maybe air science, airspace science, or DNA research. So when I was in the third year of college, I already heard of so many people got scholarship.

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So when I reached my fourth year, the senior, when I applied, I applied, because my grade was good. I applied four years scholarship to go finish PhD, I only touched a couple of

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them, like Columbia University, UC— UC Berkeley, UCLA, UC Davis, all four year you don't have to worry, except the traveling expense. So my parents actually feel if I say no, that

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means I don't want you to go further to study. That's the reason why we all come here. Okay. So from United from

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Taiwan, to California in the mid-60s. Well, thank you for taking us through your journey of life. And your footprints being everywhere,

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making you a transnational person, as like. I think we all are in a way, but anyway, , the reason why I choose UCLA, there was a family reason. Because my father's only older sister,

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her husband back then was the diplomat. At that time there is a diplomatic tie between Chinese. As called, at that time is Taiwan, okay?

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Between Taiwan and the United States. My uncle, my aunt's husband happened to be the counselor general in Los Angeles. My grandmother's stayed with them.

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So my father said, that's the only place you could go. Otherwise, we cannot put our heart at ease. Because United States back then a lot of hippies, remember,

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hippies' "make love, no war" and this kind of thing. But my parents didn't know, Los Angeles happen to be the Capitol, just like Berkeley, California.

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It's everywhere inside of the campus. For us, it's cultural shock. Because even I stayed at the all girls' dormitory, you know. Back then, nobody wants to stay or girls dormitory.

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It's no fun. Only the Asian girls, the Asian girls, I saw none of them from China. It's all second generation, or first generation from Hong Kong, from Malaysia.

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This kind of places. So we stay in. But they all complain. Their parents are dictators forced them to stay here.

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I was shocked. I think this is a good place, because all girls should stay together. But then, in the weekend, my roommate said, "I'm

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going to go to my-my boyfriend's dormitory. Bye, bye." I didn't know why they stay there for two three days. We were so sheltered.

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And then gradually you learn because like, I was in the biochemistry department, every Friday afternoon, there is a graduate student seminar. They didn't say graduate students seminar.

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In the post, they say, "graduate student... orgy". O-R-G-Y. And "bring your own bottle". So I look for the dictionary.

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I said, "Oh my god, I cannot go. It's orgy. I cannot go. I even do not have a boyfriend." So. And then they said, "It's

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teasing. You don't have to have a love relationship with me. Maybe a kiss or hugging. But we're not touching you, you know?" So I finally know, that's their term. But back then.

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It's nothing like it now. Like, the water you have, they give you a bottle and you drink it. And then another guy next to you said, "Can I have it?" Then I said, "Oh my god, afterwards it's

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yours. I don't want to have it." You know, and the guy would be very upset. He would say— because my English name is May; they said, "May, I have no germs.

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Why don't you keep your drinking? I have no germ." At that time, we didn't know there is AIDS. We didn't know a lot of things.

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So everybody is more or less very simple, you know? So when I walked to the campus or on the street in Los Angeles, close to the campus, somebody would stopped the car, said, "Do you need a ride?" After 15

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years, everything has changed. I just want you to know everything. But for them. I-I was so scared about guys approaching.

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Because so many things I didn't learn and I nobody to share. Even my aunt's children. My aunt's children are very liberated too.

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They were bikini walking down the street. I cannot do that. So I feel so alone. That's why I married very

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soon. I marry in '67 with a classmate from the same college National Taiwan University. We went to the same building to, to go to the graduate school. His is pharmacology.

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Mine is biochemistry. We bumped into each other every day. I think he's safe. So I marry him.

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Everything is settled. You don't have to touch me anymore. I just tried to explain to you the environment back then.

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Any question? Yeah, wow, that's super fun to hear about. No, I don't think it's fun. A lot of things like, after weekend, Monday, I have leave the dormitory to

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go to the botanical garden to go to my building. And through that, you see a lot of abandoned condoms. At first, I even didn't know what's the purpose of this. Gradually you learn a lot of things.

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So I think, at that time I really regretted for the Asian people, they need to be educated a lot more before they come. For instance, even nowadays, I— when I see the crime happen,

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like a couple of years ago, there was a scholar who came from Fujian to University of Illinois, to a research and he– he just wanted to go to his lab. And he knew that TA, so he hopped into that

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TA's car, he was killed and murdered. Remember? It's a big news. I think back in the old China, you never heard about this kind of thing.

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So I think that this kind of thing, 50 years ago, it's less, but you may end up having sex with him. That's very easy, because

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everybody did it. So that's the reason why I said, "We all need to learn. East is east, West are west. We need to respect each other.

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But we need to learn more about each other." So the case you mentioned, was it a she or a he? She. Yeah, yeah, it's a she. And nowadays, another one is, uh, he, he actually almost got his PhD in

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University of Chicago, he waited for his fiancé dental appointment, he got killed— random killings. I think a lot of this kind of thing made you realize, it's not happening everywhere, but you need to be

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aware. A lot of things you need to be aware of, not to drive in the dark, by yourself. But in Asia, I mean, even in China, in Shanghai, or Taipei, you can walk in the middle

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of the night, by yourself relatively safe, so long, it's bright, that with light. So I think a lot of things we should be more aware of the environment.

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It's very different. It's very different, different cultural, in other words. But I since you asked me, I said it, but gradually different places, different culture.

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So in '69, I have to hurry up, finish my master's degree, follow with my husband, he, he got his PhD. He got a research offer in a Texas Medical Center. I said, "Hey, this is the time to have children." Okay.

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At that time, not like your time. And that time, everybody has to have children. Nowadays is, even they marry you don't ask them— when are you going to have children?" They'll say,

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"We're not ready. We think that having children is too difficult these days. These days, it's hard to raise kids." You know, it's everywhere now. You don't ask, but back then, you feel the pressure.

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Everybody expected. And once you marry, you should have one or two. Since I was the only child. I told myself, I can never be the only child.

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So I arrived here. My advisor from UCLA, called Baylor, and his– his business associate, you know, he knew each other. So the Baylor professor asked me, "We have

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the scholarship for you. You just come to study with me." Maybe a different topic, but very similar. You know what? I told him— now look bad is

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so stupid— I told him, "No, I will wait for. I have to have two kids. After two kids, I'll go back to graduate school. You could tell.

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Back then it's so easy to go back to graduate school. But I didn't go with him. I ended up having health signs and then change it to counseling psychology in

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'70...'74. When I finished the two girls, I sent them to daycare. Then I walking around to the Medical Center. I want to go back to graduate school.

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I just want you to know. And then that I talked to one of the admission thing. And he happened to travel all over the world. And I said, "Can I make an appointment

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with you? I love to go back to graduate school." His name is Dr. Chambers. He said, "Well, you can walk in now." And, and he asked me, "Where are you from?" Back in the '74. Not many people from China.

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So I said, "I came from Taiwan. And I went to graduate school at UCLA. And then I quit." Since 69. And five years, I two, two girls, I sent them to daycare.

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Now, I can't go back. And he said, "How did you learn your English? Because I have a couple graduate students here from Taiwan. Since you're married to

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another Taiwanese, how can you learn your English?” I was very honest, “Through so news and soap opera.” "Oh," he just laughed. He said, "How cute.

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Now, you just be my student." Just that easy. I just want you to know everything for me, it's no resistance back then. And then I almost got my PhD, my husband had an

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interview for citizenship. So I told one of the professor, when I work, I told him I said, "This afternoon, I cannot be here, I have to have the interview."

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He said, "On behalf of taxes, I just want you to know, we are very honored for you to become US citizen." So back then they are very welcoming. Something has changed these days, the whole world has

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changed. But back then it's a different world, different kinds of stress. I just want you to know. And if you asked me as a Chinese

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American, I told you about my family of origin. I give my children's value just like my parents give. We always feel— you so

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proud to carry the Chinese heritage. That's the reason why my older daughter 52, my younger daughter almost 50, even to this day, when they call— Not a word of English.

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They say everything in Chinese. And nobody could tell the born and raised here. And also, they watch everything what's going on. They know the good value and the bad things.

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They've been in China. They've been in Singapore. They've been in Taiwan, they've been in Hong Kong, say they know the differences. But we none of them, like us is

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political. We don't say bad things to each other. But we carry the deep value. And I don't mind them marry to any ethnicities.

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So they both married their classmates through graduate school. But that's probably the only differences. I didn't know.

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A lot of them didn't speak in Chinese with their parents. And some of them will say, "How did you lead them? Because your parents didn't raise them." Most of the children speak Chinese, it's because their grandparents raised them.

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None of my father mother raised my children. But I see the all the videotape, when I was young. They were like 12 and 10. The only thing I said in

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Chinese is, Keep on reminding them. So they know I have to use this language. And finally, when my younger daughter become very rebellious as a teenager, she got home.

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She find out none of our friends showed us, speak parents with Chinese. She said, "You know the reason why I still speak Chinese to you? Because I'm such a nice person.

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I want to be close to you. If I don't want to be close to you, I will speak English." Now look back, probably it's true. Even to this day. She is in London.

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She called. The minute she called, she'll say, "Oh mama, 你好" In Chinese, and they make a lot of friends from China. They have different kinds of group of people.

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And that's what I like, because I don't like people carrying a lot of political things, that package, you know. Because I know

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some of them. Like one of my friends, the son and daughter in law, the whole family from Taiwan, the son and daughter in law, a medical doctor in medical center. And I didn't know they refuse to speak

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Mandarin. So I said, They said, "I don't speak your kind of language." That's Chinese. So apparently, the political things. So I said, "Okay, I’ll speak English with you." So I don't carry

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that that kind of thing to my children. I let them find their own things for themselves. Yeah, and I guess that's the kind of value was also carried down by your own family right from

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your— like heritage. Do you mind speaking with us a little bit about your parents', like, history? And I know that in your ancestry, there are like very famous scholars among them.

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Yeah, my, my, my father, my mother's family. Actually, I feel so sorry. She always said, "When I courting with your dad in college, and I didn't— I thought

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I was from a very academic, elite family. But until I met your father, and they that makes me inferior, but I didn't know." Her grandfather, her grandfather from the mother's side was a big important

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figure in Taiwanese history. Because he was found in Fujian Province, too. But you know, in Qing Dynasty, you have to have a beautiful calligraphy

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in order to pass the entrance exam. But for some reason, his calligraphy is not that good. But he is good in geography, and also in math.

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So he waited. This day, so many scam call, I'm sorry. But anyway, he waited at the seaport, said, "I want to go to Taiwan, for the deep sea fishermen." So he went to

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Taiwan in Qing Dynasty, before , so many times. So he wrote the whole geography of Taiwan, even pinpoint

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which place Japanese soldier already stationed. So he wrote a letter to Qing Dynasty Emperor, he said, "you'll be careful, you have to protect Taiwan, because some of the

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Japanese soldiers already occupies certain spots." And she— and he ended up teaching there a couple years, until in the late 40s, he finally got the "xiucai", you know, not "jinshi", because his handwriting

00:28:21.330 - 00:28:36.120

is so poor. By anyway, he went to Beijing to teach the royalties about the geography. So he was famous in Taiwan now, because Taiwan government, now change the textbook,

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emphasize more on Taiwan itself, not with China. So said, "Who was the first person wrote the Taiwanese geography?" That's my mother's

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grandfather. I just want you to know, I didn't know that until now. So my, my father's side, both of his parents are pretty well known. His father side from Fujian, in late

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Qing Dynasty, got the entrance exam of "Jinshi". So he went to Beijing to have a—like a, some high rank officer. And then his best friend is Kang Youwei.

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And because Canton people and Fujian people, they see the world more; exposed a lot more than the mainlanders of China. They both agree, Qing Dynasty need to reform. So even to this day, I still have Kang

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Youwei calligraphy, his calligraphy to my grandfather. And during Cultural Revolution, the whole family's things are ruined; not that one. Because Kang Youwei is like Mao Zedong— emphasized reform, revolution.

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So we kept that things. My daughter had it now. But anyway, my father's mother's side is the— her family is from...

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How do you say the Taiping Tianguo? The Taiping Rebellion. He was actually my, uh, my great grandfather was the one control the Taiping

00:30:27.360 - 00:30:45.040

Rebellion. And he was the first Chinese, photo was taken in the British, uh, Britannica, that encyclopedia. Because back in the Qing Dynasty, no Chinese were willing to

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be picture taken. They thought you'd you take the picture, you took my soul. And he feel that a lot of things we need to catch up.

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So he, his oldest son got a chance to go to Russia. He brought back a camera. He said, "You took my picture." That's the

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reason why. in the Britannica, we saw the encyclopedia, that book happened to have my great grandfather's name. And he actually was the first one encouraged Chinese to go to

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abroad to study. The first university is Yale University. So my daughter happened to be the professor at Yale has a special meaning for him.

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So actually, they both came from that big family. But I learned things it's very different than other people. Like you need to marry certain time.

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Because my husband, so family is seventh-generation Taiwanese family. And my father in law, when two Shanghai in '40s. My parents fled to Chongqing, he came from Taiwan to

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Shanghai. He was bound to death at age of 34. So their family— my father, my husband, and his brothers were all born in Shanghai, then came back to Taiwan with dirt poor. But when my grandmother was alive

00:32:18.700 - 00:32:33.090

in Los Angeles, remember she was the granddaughter of such a big name in Qing Dynasty. She encouraged me to marry him. She said Can you translate that

00:32:33.090 - 00:32:51.570

word? "Han men", . Yeah, the best children come— comes out of family of poverty. Uh huh. Actually can become even better as a person, because they

00:32:51.570 - 00:33:05.080

have the strength and resilience and the motivation to achieve even more. So on the opposite, they against— actually they encourage said, "This is a good match.

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You don't have to marry you know, notable person or rich person's child; you need to marry somebody who can achieve even more." So, my, my parents give me the value. It's in a way it's

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Chinese. But in a way, it's different than some other people. They encourage that you need to marry my best friend's son. This kind of thing. I don't think they ever say this kind of thing.

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But anyway, I just want to share with you. So I didn't do that to my daughters. None of them marry a big shot, like a so-and-so's son. But they turned out to be terrific sons-in-law.

00:33:50.740 - 00:34:09.420

Yeah, that's such wisdom in your family. And I'm also curious, your name, your Chinese name, which is Zhuo Yiding. —carry a metaphor that your parents trying... It's through my father's family, because they use

00:34:10.900 - 00:34:25.490

a— you say like a . I think because of the war, you know, the current 100 years. I... it's hard to keep it.

00:34:26.060 - 00:34:41.810

But I want to share something with you. I don't know whether you have interviewed anybody have the same feeling like me. I have the feelings I hope you don't have. I have the feelings is once after

00:34:43.790 - 00:34:59.890

30 years in abroad, I still go back to visit my old school, my old friends, my parents. I especially in the first couple years, I still went to

00:34:59.910 - 00:35:13.280

my old room. I don't know whether you would stay inside of your old bed, your own room. And you feel— you thought you go back to your motherland should be everything the best.

00:35:14.080 - 00:35:26.710

You can try the things you like, you miss. And you will see the same old people and talk to the same old things. None of the people in the United States understand. All of a sudden you feel so alone.

00:35:28.610 - 00:35:39.130

You feel the bed is not that comfortable. None of them you can complain to. You cannot tell you mom said, "Oh, this bad. How come I had a backache?" Because

00:35:39.130 - 00:35:51.540

they will say, "Oh, you look down upon your family." You cannot say that you cannot share some of the things to your best friends. Because you all pass the same different way, journey.

00:35:53.120 - 00:36:07.290

He or she actually had a different kind of background over the last 5, 10 years. You had a very different one, too. So if you use your judgment, if she use her judgment,

00:36:08.120 - 00:36:24.900

you'll find out there something, it's not the same. And also, you'll feel that, like my mother would say, "Oh, my best friends want to meet you, and treat you... or your uncle want to see you!

00:36:25.450 - 00:36:39.660

So that you can give your uncle's children some advice." And you cannot say, "Oh, today I don't feel like seeing anyone. How about next week?" Because you don't have that freedom. You, you you're supposed to do that.

00:36:40.950 - 00:36:56.580

You find out a lot of treats, you'll feel its enjoyment, not anymore. And then you come back, you'll come back, you'll see your old bed in the United States, your husband, your children, or

00:36:58.290 - 00:37:17.630

your old job. They say, "Oh, man, I'm glad that you come back" and give you a hug. You find out, "but I still miss that motherland." So in other words, I feel you— once you decide your path of your own path in

00:37:17.630 - 00:37:32.700

life, you can feel foreign. All the times. It's different kind of feeling. You'll go through there, you'll find, "Oh, this is this used to be my place. How come it's so noisy?"

00:37:33.560 - 00:37:49.790

Because people speak on the street, it's so noisy. Okay. But you go back to here, you feel you still miss that place. I don't know whether you have well feel that way. But I have feel that way for a long, long

00:37:49.810 - 00:38:01.980

time. The two cultures, you carry this two culture east and west for a long, long time. That's my– my personal journey.

00:38:03.910 - 00:38:16.830

Yeah, thank you for sharing that. And I think I might be able to echo with you on that a lot, too. And I'm just wondering, so in terms of being between identities,

00:38:16.970 - 00:38:32.000

like being in the east and the west, what, which one do you reconcile with more? And how would you identify yourself as in terms of ethnicity? I think, to this day, I think I feel very privileged,

00:38:33.660 - 00:38:48.250

because I feel it's very smooth transition. Because I have seven grandchildren. And the two older ones, they are 18.

00:38:48.740 - 00:39:04.640

Twins, girls, very close with me. And they still want to apply like a scholarship to go to Taiwan or China. And they are at Yale now.

00:39:04.640 - 00:39:17.710

They're going to go to Yale. But I feel having them see their face, the bi-cultural phase. I feel very close.

00:39:18.430 - 00:39:32.060

Let me share with you one thing. One of my granddaughter, her name is Natalie. When she reaches her 16, she asked her twin sister, Tova, take a picture of her.

00:39:32.060 - 00:39:45.100

You know, they both have cell phone these days. Take a picture of her with my father's picture— my father when he was in young 20s. And she told me, "Can you

00:39:45.180 - 00:40:02.110

see the family resemblance? I just look like your father." You know, make me feel so so fortunate. Even regardless, 1000 miles apart and also four

00:40:02.760 - 00:40:19.620

generations apart, she still feel I am connected to you directly. And I share that photo with a lot of my friends. They said, "Oh boy, it is very close by the family

00:40:20.200 - 00:40:36.620

resemblance." I will be happy to share with you. But I think it must be for her to in order to find that effort to show it to me. And at one time, when I helped her to pass the street, in

00:40:36.620 - 00:40:47.160

Chinatown, I think New York City, you know, New York Chinatown Flushing. It's very flood, you know, a lot of traffic. So I help her. She looked at her

00:40:47.160 - 00:41:02.110

skin, she said, "Nainai, I love to have your skin color. It's dark, but it's very beautiful." So I think through that gradually make you feel live. It's long and short.

00:41:02.600 - 00:41:17.060

Make you feel regardless where you are. You still feel you are connected somewhere. Okay. And I think you will feel that way. Eventually, regardless where

00:41:17.060 - 00:41:32.570

you are, maybe inside Mongolia, okay. Maybe Xinjiang Province, you saw a person, they talk with you, then you all of a sudden you feel, "Oh, we share the same feelings." That, that is so wonderful.

00:41:32.900 - 00:41:48.870

That's what I said, "Life is wonderful." Makes you feel that way. Not necessarily somebody you are related to. Okay, we had one time, I went to a family therapy workshop. So in Vermont.

00:41:49.770 - 00:41:59.500

Burlington, Vermont, I went by myself. And there was a person. She told me, she's American. She's a psychologist, she told me, she

00:41:59.500 - 00:42:16.340

said, "Hey, you are Chinese. Are you the Muslim Chinese or the Taoist Chinese, or the Buddhist Chinese?" I told her, I said, "I'm a Buddhist Chinese." She said, "I married to a Muslim, from not Iran or

00:42:16.340 - 00:42:26.980

somewhere in the Middle East. But he actually received his education in the United States. He's here. You want to talk to him after the workshop?

00:42:27.340 - 00:42:41.510

Maybe at dinner time?" I said, Sure. Then, then we talk. And then he said, "I bring my Rosary because I have to pray maybe three times or five times a day." I said, "I bring

00:42:41.510 - 00:42:55.170

my Buddhist beads too." So we went to the room, you know, after dinner, because we are in the same hall, hall lobby in the hotel. So he took his, I took mine.

00:42:55.450 - 00:43:03.970

So we all count. I count his; he count mine. He said, "we only have eight beads difference. Yours is 108.

00:43:04.310 - 00:43:17.160

Mine is 100. They're all made of wood." I said, "Wow, only eight." We all had a really good time. I think in that make you realize, put a political thing

00:43:17.410 - 00:43:29.690

aside, we can be so kind to each other. I just want to share this with you. I even didn't know how to be. But he asked me to count, I just count it.

00:43:30.060 - 00:43:45.640

But it– it's really cute. Thank you for sharing that lovely story. And I'm also wondering, as we were talking about ethnicity and racial identity, what ethnicity do you identify as?

00:43:46.220 - 00:44:00.220

Would you identify as Taiwanese Chinese— Taiwanese American or Chinese American? I think none. Because Taiwanese American, these days become a little political.

00:44:01.890 - 00:44:21.620

Because when I was in teenager, we learned that history is the same history like you learn history in China. We learn the Yellow River, Yangzi River, we actually even made up the song, "The descendants of the dragon."

00:44:21.810 - 00:44:37.060

Remember . And so at that time, we were very, very Chinese Chinese. And my parents always said, "We came from that place. Okay. And we stay here." But my parents really

00:44:37.960 - 00:44:49.500

hated the war. So actually, even after they build the peace, we can go back to China. I and my mother went to Shanghai to visit my grandmother so many times.

00:44:50.350 - 00:45:00.350

My father didn't want to go. The reason why, because he wanted to go to the birthplace Beijing. He find out the whole war was ruined.

00:45:01.190 - 00:45:12.000

So he said he didn't have the nerve to see his birth place changing so much. So he never went back. But he talked to his cousins,

00:45:12.530 - 00:45:24.430

almost daily. So we belong to a more or less like a long lost Chinese generation in Taiwan. But, but

00:45:25.100 - 00:45:38.020

Chinese in China, I see so many of them in my clinic. Everyone is so different. Just like you are different. Everybody from a different family.

00:45:38.520 - 00:45:50.850

You are the lucky generation. The first couple of generations, they came to the United States, like in the 90s and the 80s, a lot of them suffered so much.

00:45:51.360 - 00:46:02.880

Okay. Some of them through atrocities, like the father and the mother was killed, or during Cultural Revolution, they were drifted apart...

00:46:03.170 - 00:46:15.710

so none of them really cherish— What is the marriage so far? You know, so, every family is so different. Nowadays, I think that differences are less.

00:46:16.450 - 00:46:31.250

The new generation, like, I sponsor a couple of Rice student. Now they finish their PhD, they spread their wings, fly to the other United States, places to work, they have found a good family, just like you.

00:46:31.690 - 00:46:44.130

They parents may be remembered some, but they are the only child or the only two. So they receive good education. They heard about this, but they didn't want

00:46:44.130 - 00:46:55.880

to touch it. So they're different. But the Taiwanese people, the younger generation, very nice people, but they lose their incentive to go to abroad.

00:46:57.080 - 00:47:11.040

They have good life, just like the Western European people. They have insurance, they have everything. So like, when I go back, if I fail, all of a sudden, a lot of people rush to come here.

00:47:11.610 - 00:47:23.580

"Ayi, what's wrong with you? You want me to send you to the hospital?" They're very nice people. But if you ask them, "You want to go finish your graduate school in the

00:47:23.580 - 00:47:32.090

United States?" They said, "No thank you. I don't want it even you'll pay me. Who wants to go out?" So it's a very different generation.

00:47:32.770 - 00:47:45.840

And also you ask them, "Do you know about China" and everything, they changed the textbook. So no more Yellow River, even the Japanese invasion

00:47:46.540 - 00:47:59.850

to China, they changed the history. So they, they don't care about this kind of thing. So if you ask me, I say none. But however, I have lots of friends who share the same thing with me.

00:48:00.610 - 00:48:11.660

We're still connected to each other. So we have Line we have WeChat. We have class of so-and-so year. Class of so-and-so year.

00:48:11.970 - 00:48:22.850

So we are not alone. We also very lucky. We enjoy the beautiful Chinese soap operas. The good operas.

00:48:23.630 - 00:48:38.850

Have you ever watched any? Like these days, I finish watching "Ye Yun Tai." It's about the Queen in Laos. Okay. Back then, Chinese history emphasize only Chinese

00:48:38.850 - 00:48:51.230

Chinese. These days we more emphasize on the minorities who are so good as a soldier, a lady soldier. Not the only Hua Mulan. This one, she's the queen,

00:48:51.630 - 00:49:08.470

she still fight, fight to a lot of wars. She won Song, Song, Song dynasty, okay. And the whole movie shooting in Mongolia. So beautiful sceneries and beautiful symphony music.

00:49:09.000 - 00:49:28.690

So I am so proud, so proud of that Chinese culture, even to this day. So all mixed. But still, there are some imprints inside of your mind until you go back to work, you'll

00:49:28.690 - 00:49:40.840

find out. Because nowadays, it's hard to say, which one is which. Because even in Shanghai, in Beijing, you can find the place you belong to.

00:49:42.260 - 00:49:55.480

You agree with me, right? You, you can find out the peace that you like. You can find out the thing, the fruits you have, actually eventually, everywhere, it's like that.

00:49:57.110 - 00:50:11.740

Yeah, absolutely. Culture is fluid and no static understanding of, yeah, humanities and... Yeah. After the pandemic, I hope we can go back. The whole world is getting smaller.

00:50:13.480 - 00:50:26.400

Yeah, thank you for sharing that. Any other thing you want to ask me? Yeah. I'm curious about your family garden, "Nie Jia Hua Yuan," the Garden of the Family of Nie.

00:50:26.400 - 00:50:39.880

And I'm wondering if you could tell us a little bit about the history of the garden and what happened to it like during the Cultural Revolution, and— Okay, so the things I learned is because

00:50:40.540 - 00:50:57.790

back in the late Qing Dynasty, okay, my great grandfather, and he actually chose the youngest daughter to marry. Because he was too kind.

00:50:58.210 - 00:51:13.960

Some of the daughters was abused by the sons-in-law. So one committed suicide because no dowry, you know, "pin jin". So actually, he was so humble, so, so clean, not–

00:51:14.510 - 00:51:27.830

not luxury. So finally, he actually said, "I have to add, let my youngest daughter to marry a good man." So his youngest daughter happened to be my grandmother's

00:51:28.580 - 00:51:42.260

mom. So, so married to the— my grandmother's father. He happened to be the last Mayor of Shanghai, in Qing Dynasty.

00:51:42.950 - 00:52:00.290

So Situ Lei Deng, how do you say this name? He's a Situ Lei Deng, the missionary men- memoir said that he cannot forget, one time he encountered

00:52:01.950 - 00:52:18.200

my great grandmother conversation. It's in Shanghai. But ever since the Republic, the Nie's— that's last name is Nie— the Nie family happened to be in the — How

00:52:18.490 - 00:52:29.940

do you say ? Cotton mill? Yeah, cotton mill. Cotton mill. I think it's cotton mill. It's one of the top cotton mill in the

00:52:30.580 - 00:52:40.700

20th century, beginning of 20th century. So in Shanghai, so they built— and my great grandmother have nine kids.

00:52:40.990 - 00:52:51.380

So they all live in this new in Shanghai. But through that, gradually Communist China came, you

00:52:51.380 - 00:53:05.110

know, this kind of thing is absolutely no-no. So gradually now, we we don't do— talk about that . Where is that? Because I first time I went to Shanghai, I asked my

00:53:05.480 - 00:53:15.620

Nie's relative, there's still like 100 of them. We actually had a lunch together, all over the United States, Canada, all over China.

00:53:16.490 - 00:53:31.630

And one time there is a conversation. One old man, he was a retired professor of Nanjing . He came to me, he said, "Who gave me this shaking hand? Because one time I'm from Zeng Guofan.

00:53:31.680 - 00:53:43.710

Another family, I'm from Zuo Zongtang. So who gave me this shaking hand?" We didn't know. But we all laugh about it. Because nowadays, we don't talk about this.

00:53:44.010 - 00:53:58.020

But we still feel we are connected to each other. So we have a web. So if you have any article about your family history, feel free to write and publish in that web.

00:53:58.470 - 00:54:07.450

That web in Tai— in Shanghai. It's called Nie . But there is another Nie , it's . All the

00:54:11.600 - 00:54:26.860

Nie's family all over China, because I know there is a high rank communist military man, Nie RongZhen. It's a sole— military, military general.

00:54:27.130 - 00:54:37.600

He happened to be a Nie. So there are two family. That direct family there is in Shanghai; but the other family sometime use our references.

00:54:38.910 - 00:54:49.880

Because Nie has a lot of them. It's not last name Nie anymore. In Taiwan, used to be Yu Dawei,

00:54:51.330 - 00:55:01.000

defense secretary. And he was very well respected. And he happened to be my godfather. And I knew he's from

00:55:01.180 - 00:55:16.330

Zeng Guofan, too. But he's he never belonged to Nationalist government party anyway. So actually, we all don't want to touch politics that says, but we want to help to increase the welfare of people.

00:55:19.270 - 00:55:35.210

So I'm wondering, have your parents shared with you any of the memories during Cultural Revolution? Is that something you're willing to share? Oh, we, we, we don't, my father's family, every

00:55:35.910 - 00:55:48.330

one of them left. So, but some of them stay. Ah, the one who got abused.

00:55:49.520 - 00:56:04.440

You know, in the adolescent time, I think that changed the whole person's personality. Especially once you grow old, like middle age, you still can cover it up.

00:56:04.900 - 00:56:14.300

Like you, you are in the United States. You speak English, you get an advanced degree, you talk about things. You just don't want to touch that thing.

00:56:14.710 - 00:56:31.170

That's all. But gradually, I feel very, very sad; it's gradually they feel, they got very disappointed with Chinese. They even pro Trump because of that.

00:56:31.740 - 00:56:49.090

Okay. They said, "because Trump against China. That's why I love Trump." They, they don't talk about what atrocity or experiences they experience; but they feel so disappointed with everything what

00:56:49.090 - 00:57:01.420

China did. That I feel it's a big loss. Because I feel people can come and go and find out so many beautiful things. Because I love to watch

00:57:01.420 - 00:57:19.780

YouTube. Like some people finally have their own car, they can't spend a while drive. From Inner Mongolia, to Iran, then to the old Silk Road and coming back, you find out so many beautiful road, it's

00:57:20.400 - 00:57:35.300

because the construction of Chinese government. I even didn't know is reaching to that poor neighborhood, but like Af- Afghanistan, and so and so. And so I feel so so happy for them.

00:57:35.810 - 00:57:48.510

But a lot of people don't– don't want to watch this. They always think, "Oh, this bad thing happened to me. They will never change. They will do this kind of..." I think that's a big loss.

00:57:49.800 - 00:58:01.880

Other than that, because they feel that way. I don't talk about it, because politics is hard to change people. Do you agree? It's especially

00:58:01.880 - 00:58:17.220

reaching my age. They cannot change me. I cannot change them. Thank you for sharing. I'm wondering, after coming to America, like how

00:58:17.220 - 00:58:28.550

did you decide— how you and your husband decided to settle in Houston? And how has that been for you? Houston has been my home because we've been staying here

00:58:28.550 - 00:58:42.940

ever since in the late 60s. And we see the city has grown and both my children were raised here and I knew their schools and everything, my

00:58:42.940 - 00:59:00.760

neighbors. And I think Houstonians people are much more sincere back then to this day, I think the southerners are different than Los Angeles or New Yorkers. They are more sincere,

00:59:01.230 - 00:59:11.470

especially if you live next door to them. They will share almost everything to you as sometimes in a very personal way.

00:59:12.170 - 00:59:23.300

The first time we bought a house in Houston was actually the newly built house. It's right in the Bellaire Sharpstown area.

00:59:23.660 - 00:59:38.590

Back then, it was brand new house. So we– we are, we knew our next door neighbor, and not next door neighbor was a three, four generation of Texans.

00:59:39.030 - 00:59:52.970

They come to my house, is it at this– this girl, Holly, is nine year old, she can be a babysitter to your children. I said, Okay, so she sometimes babysit my children when I go out.

00:59:53.810 - 01:00:09.880

And then there is another Black family, that the husband was assistant coach of Houston Oilers, you know, the football. So actually, they come across the street and told us, they

01:00:09.880 - 01:00:19.540

have a teenager girl. And they she can be a babysitter. I said, Okay, next time, I'll give it to you. So she

01:00:19.540 - 01:00:28.690

heard it, Holly's mother heard it. She called me. She said, "I need to talk to you. You don't make friends with that people. That kind of people.

01:00:28.690 - 01:00:48.220

You don't trust them. You have to trust us, don't trust them..." Hello? —no thanks... I think we lost you for about 10 seconds. Sorry. Could you rewind a little bit?

01:00:49.440 - 01:01:02.860

Okay, wait, which one you didn't? I think you were talking about Holly and saying that...? Okay. Holly was our babysitter for my two daughters. When they were like, one toddler and

01:01:02.860 - 01:01:13.140

another like a five year old, something like that. And then one time, we found out there was a new family. They moved to the corner house. It's a big house.

01:01:13.680 - 01:01:30.370

And the husband was an assistant coach, Houston Oiler, football. And the have, whole family was Black. But they, they came to my house to say hi. And they said their oldest daughter, 15 year old, can be a good

01:01:30.440 - 01:01:43.000

babysitter. I said, "Okay, at this time to Holly; next time to you." And Holly's mother heard it on the street. I told him, I chatted with him. So she knocked the door

01:01:43.000 - 01:02:00.260

and she went in and tried to tell me, "You, you don't associate with them like that. You have to trust us more. You don't trust those." Okay, I was very shocked. But in the meantime, I feel she feel closer to me.

01:02:00.570 - 01:02:13.970

Otherwise, she will not tell me this kind of thing. So I finally realize, in South, before I came the restaurant, some of them still say "White only".

01:02:15.940 - 01:02:28.770

Okay. But when I came, I didn't see those things. But you have to be aware. Back in the old days, even to this day racial things is very sensitive.

01:02:29.550 - 01:02:36.960

And in the north, they don't talk about it. That doesn't mean they don't have racial prejudice. Actually, a lot of them happen

01:02:36.960 - 01:02:51.180

in the north, like Minneapolis, Wisconsin. These days, it's in the north. But that making me realize, but other than that, I feel back in the old days, yard

01:02:51.930 - 01:03:05.690

people, you know that '60, '70. Yard people or workers changing painting. Some of them are Black people, gradually, they all become Hispanic

01:03:05.690 - 01:03:18.580

people. These days, like in the '80s '90s, even 2000, 2020 now. You cannot find so many Black people who work there.

01:03:19.110 - 01:03:30.330

It's all Hispanic people. They all found all over the places. I have no prejudice to either one of them. I just noticed the change.

01:03:31.100 - 01:03:46.030

Even like I'm living in the high rise; downstairs, the concierge, working, the people, the Hispanic people, they are all so sweet. Because back in the old days, I can go to the gym to-to dancing

01:03:46.030 - 01:03:57.080

Zumba. Every time I changing my costume to dancing Zumba, they notice. The minute they saw me, "It's Zumba!" They all say that. I feel very close to them.

01:03:57.560 - 01:04:17.760

But I can see the racial changing. Of course. That's really interesting to hear, like, as southern hospitality can be, like, going both ways. Also, this, the past tumultuous year has definitely, we've seen a lot of the racial

01:04:17.780 - 01:04:29.730

discussions and that's meaningful and worth it. Yeah. Yeah. But yeah, I'm also curious about your writing career since you're a very established therapist...

01:04:29.820 - 01:04:43.000

Starting the '90s. Starting in the 90s, I, my children are grown, they spread their wings. I feel this is the time for me to do the things I love.

01:04:43.740 - 01:04:52.870

So other than writing, I also do the watercolor. I want you to come to my house to see all the watercolor painting. Okay. Because I want to share with you, other than

01:04:53.540 - 01:05:03.840

writing and painting. The writing, I actually find a way of writing things, I can help the Chinese people.

01:05:04.310 - 01:05:21.880

Okay, actually, three books are transformed from Taiwanese publisher to the Chinese publisher. Because I want to feel there is a strong need to help the Chinese marriage and parents.

01:05:22.650 - 01:05:38.840

The things that I feel very important for Chinese is: they don't emphasize on how to keep their marriage good. For instance, my, my dau- my older daughter went to teach

01:05:39.000 - 01:05:51.670

Beijing University, like nine years ago. So they want me to help them to find a good nanny. So I went there about a couple months. So I went to the bookstore.

01:05:52.320 - 01:06:06.770

Of course, I want to read. I went to the bookstore, I want to find out where the books dealing with raising kids. Oh boy, hundreds of books, how to raise kids, how to

01:06:06.770 - 01:06:20.800

send your kids abroad even; how to emphasize to pass the "gaokao"— entrance examination; how to start from the beginning, everything. And I asked them, how to keep a good marriage?

01:06:21.630 - 01:06:34.260

None! Can you imagine? None! Only translated books. None of them, how to keep good marriage. Okay. And even soap

01:06:34.260 - 01:06:49.630

opera now. You probably, a lot of people suggested you, there is a good soap opera by Jia Shuying. , okay? They, Chinese emphasize on bonding, same genders.

01:06:51.110 - 01:07:04.950

Okay. But they don't talk about how to find your good partners, instead of giving you examples. Okay, for instance, that soap opera,

01:07:05.100 - 01:07:16.960

I see the problem of it already. Jiang Shuying, actually, she practically can get the one who loves her. And she can choose.

01:07:17.480 - 01:07:28.980

She's very lucky. She can choose like, among these three, I chose this one, I chose that one. But I don't think she choose the good one. She actually didn't choose like...

01:07:29.570 - 01:07:43.740

in the western part, we choose the one is— who loved me the most. Regardless what kind of circumstances, good times or bad times, who's still loyal to me, who consider me the most

01:07:43.740 - 01:07:54.920

important person in his life. And who doesn't have problems in his family of origin? Who has enough of education? I think that's the best deal.

01:07:55.170 - 01:08:08.700

But she doesn't choose that kind. She chose a person from Hong Kong. That person told her that "I don't want to get married." And she said, "That's okay.

01:08:09.010 - 01:08:23.490

I don't want to get married too." But she find out, the reason he didn't want to get married, is unfaithful to her. He is a womanizer. I think that's the low low low kind, but

01:08:23.490 - 01:08:38.480

she doesn't give up easily. She we- went up to Hong Kong to find out. I think that movie tells you it's totally wrong to get young people to find this kind of candidate.

01:08:39.870 - 01:08:53.780

Instead of let them know that he or she can be a social climber. She wants to find out who is a upper class socially, instead of, is good for her, for

01:08:53.780 - 01:09:08.650

her life, the rest of her life. That's the most important thing. Am I correct? So I use that a lot of things to talk about. I invented the case, for instance,

01:09:09.990 - 01:09:22.840

like, parents come to my clinic, they don't consider their marriage is important. They consider their children, from day one to the rest of their lives, are the most important goal in their lives.

01:09:23.120 - 01:09:39.830

They will say, "my daughter graduated from college now. Now her boyfriend is from Greek." I said, "Okay, , it's fine." "No, this Greek is so Brown." And try to tell me, "It's almost like Black.

01:09:40.170 - 01:09:53.890

So I strongly against her to him." See? The marriage criteria, it's wrong. And also you let your daughter to go outside to be exposed to all kinds of people.

01:09:54.150 - 01:10:07.900

Now you get back say, "I don't like the skin color." How do your daughter feel? You are discriminating people? How can I listen to you? So this kind of thing, I touch a lot of issues,

01:10:09.080 - 01:10:20.440

Chinese families tend to ignore. And parents and then start blaming each other. You, you don't do good. That's why my daughter become like

01:10:20.440 - 01:10:31.500

that. So they don't emphasize and let go, how to let go. Let them be capable. It's very important. So used

01:10:31.500 - 01:10:44.050

to be a thing in Taiwan, now in China. So have you heard about it? If I have a daughter in the sun, because my daughter, I don't count on her that much.

01:10:44.260 - 01:10:54.140

So she can do whatever she wants. So long as she has a skill, but the son I cherish him because he carry our name. So he has to be a

01:10:54.140 - 01:11:10.190

certain way. So end up he's so overprotected. So if he grows up, he'll be not able to be independent. A lot of them happen like that. Yeah, thank you for sharing that.

01:11:10.330 - 01:11:26.630

There's definitely that mindset of patriarchy even in the next generation. In the next generation, it's very hard to change the parents, because they feel they are already better off. You know, you say, "Oh, you spoil my, my brother.

01:11:27.200 - 01:11:38.620

This is not right." She said, "No, I didn't. I spoiled you, too. I treat you all equally. Like back in the old days, my parents treat me even bad." You know, they

01:11:38.680 - 01:11:54.620

feel they are already progress. But still, they cripple their sons unintentionally. A lot of them. Even in Taiwan too. I also notice this focus

01:11:54.690 - 01:12:09.740

on the next generation on beyond the couple themselves a lot more than, like, the next generation is the center and everything the family is working towards; and there's very neglect of

01:12:09.740 - 01:12:23.150

communication between those... That's right. They don't share their mutual things. They don't share things like, "we– we need to sneak out to do something together as husband and wife."

01:12:23.890 - 01:12:36.350

And even actually, in this day in China or Taiwan, people laugh at the husband. "Oh, you just listen to your wife and go to this place." Actually, I think that's very important.

01:12:37.100 - 01:12:50.750

Cherish the bonding, because in other words, a lot of children will say. I say "how do you feel about your parents when you were young?" "They never got along. They, they actually

01:12:50.830 - 01:13:06.350

fight a lot. I hope they could divorce." But I asked the parents, the parents say, "No, we never thought about divorce. We just thought You know, family, we can fight inside of the house.

01:13:06.580 - 01:13:18.740

We cannot fight outside of the room. But I don't think the children should feel that way. We get along. We actually get along much better than most of the people. But the children don't feel

01:13:18.740 - 01:13:34.770

that way. So I think that even like , you, you, you're watching those game. You can find out a lot of youngsters, beautiful men and women, young men young woman, said, "My parents

01:13:34.770 - 01:13:49.080

would not get along." Even talk about it eyes with tears. And Meng Fei would ask them, "Are they divorced?" They said, "No, they are not divorced, but they don't get along." Most of them don't get along!

01:13:50.840 - 01:14:03.840

They don't get divorced. One time they would tell me, "Do you know what is ? They are . ABC. They don't know what else but .

01:14:05.430 - 01:14:17.550

They are for life. Apparently when they fight, they talk about . But I think it's very cute. So actually, because of my profession,

01:14:18.180 - 01:14:29.200

when we have disagreements, sometimes I show it to my children. I said, "Don't get frightened, husband, wife do argue. But it's the way how to find the differences.

01:14:30.360 - 01:14:41.220

Very important." You don't have to hide it all the time, feel, "Oh, it's a beautiful marriage. But how can you distant? So distant together?

01:14:41.300 - 01:14:57.070

A lot of parents do that too. All the way this way, or the way that way. And it's amazing you kept all the communications open with your own children,

01:14:57.070 - 01:15:08.980

because I feel like a lot of people don't. It's sad, but I let them keep their own secret. Like I heard it when I go to their house, they have an

01:15:08.980 - 01:15:22.930

argument. I prepared not hearing it. Because I know, when I was young, I had an argument with my husband. Even my father or my mother would jump in and said, "What happened? Can I help?" I said,

01:15:22.930 - 01:15:38.280

"Oh, my God." That makes the war even worse. So don't, don't... let them do their own ways. And I think sometimes it's very cute, because my older daughter could speak very

01:15:38.280 - 01:15:52.380

good German fluently. So when she has a big argument or differences with her husband, my granddaughter will say, "There you are, you're going to speak German." So that she

01:15:52.380 - 01:16:05.610

cannot hear. "Are you going to speak German now?" I think it's very cute. We all have disagreement. Yeah, that's the normality of life, I guess.

01:16:06.290 - 01:16:18.550

Yeah, so I guess, I'm also curious about the generational differences, and if you wouldn't mind touching on that, like, how do you see your next generation differ in opinions to your own?

01:16:18.680 - 01:16:36.030

And how do you like embrace that, or do you— I embrace that. I totally embrace that. At this moment of my life, my two granddaughters are 18. And I think they are so behaving, I hope they can

01:16:36.200 - 01:16:53.120

be a little bit rebellious, like the mother. But they are very good children. Because my, my daughter, mother-in-law is 95, living very close by, so by herself.

01:16:53.810 - 01:17:09.770

So one of the granddaughter have to send meal every day to her, and help her. So I feel that's very nice of them. But anyway, I feel the differences many things. For instance, like this pandemic.

01:17:11.580 - 01:17:23.160

They are so good as students, but they take gap years because of the pandemic. And I worry for them. But my daughter said this is a good choice.

01:17:23.480 - 01:17:41.110

Because a lot of things you don't need to learn in school. So I let that I let myself feel I'm a permanent, eternal learner. What I have to learn to accommodate to adjust as the

01:17:41.260 - 01:17:56.550

outsider. Because this, this COVID-19 I never encounter such a lethal disease, to tell you the truth. And to this date is still not over yet.

01:17:57.050 - 01:18:11.690

So how could I make judgment? You have to go to school these days and everything. And they become devout Democrats. Okay. When I was here, I started to learn as become

01:18:12.500 - 01:18:21.780

a Republicans. Because at that time, Republicans emphasize we have to make a living for ourselves. You cannot depend

01:18:21.780 - 01:18:33.020

on social welfare. For Chinese. It's very good philosophy for us. Okay. So I said, "Oh, this good," especially when the old Bush was alive.

01:18:33.700 - 01:18:45.120

He was a very good man. He actually came to Chinatown very often. Because he, at one time he was an Apache or delegates in Beijing.

01:18:45.560 - 01:18:54.060

So he loved roast duck, Beijing duck all the time. He was a nice man. So I said Republicans are not bad.

01:18:54.880 - 01:19:07.670

But then gradually, Donald Trump make me feel, Democrat must have a special meaning. A good balance for two. So when my daughter— granddaughter said, "they are Democrats, they love

01:19:07.770 - 01:19:19.910

Elizabeth Warren." So I love to listen to Elizabeth Warren's speech. And I told them, I think she's too, too radical for me. Okay. But I learned to

01:19:19.950 - 01:19:34.530

get by, I learned to talk with them. So they actually feel, I can talk to them all the time. And I feel very much surprised.

01:19:34.530 - 01:19:51.080

They don't have boyfriends. They're very pretty because they're mixed. My daughter said, "Pandemic, nobody has boyfriend." I said, "Okay." That's interesting that they're willing to share that part of the stories with you.

01:19:51.690 - 01:20:01.830

That just shows how close and friendly you are with each other, even— Oh and also my younger daughter, she loves to hear. "I had a crush on this person.

01:20:01.930 - 01:20:11.470

I had a crush." She, when she was eight. She said, "I had a crush on this Japanese Boy," you know, in their class, and a complicated name.

01:20:12.050 - 01:20:21.570

And then he went back to Japan. I feel so relieved. So I told her, I said, "How come you had a crush on him?" Tushy ,

01:20:21.910 - 01:20:34.640

"Tow come you had a crush on Tushy ?" She said. "Is he tall?" She said, "No. He's not tall. He's taller, shorter than me." I said, "is he smart?" "No, he's not smart." I said,

01:20:34.640 - 01:20:47.720

"Is he handsome?" "No." I try to educate her. You know, so I gave her three prerequisites. And then she talked to me back. She said, "Nainai, but when you fall in love,

01:20:48.100 - 01:20:56.610

nothing is important. It's all here." So she tried to educate me. "Nothing is important.

01:20:57.010 - 01:21:11.530

It's all from the heart." She told me. So we all had a big laugh. Then gradually now she said that she didn't have crush, she had a crush only one person. You know which one?

01:21:12.110 - 01:21:23.640

Nathan Chen, the male figure skater. Practice figure skating outside of their living place. So she saw Nathan Chen all the time.

01:21:24.250 - 01:21:38.860

I told her, "You'll have better tastes now." It's too far away. Not in the same class. But anyway, she's kind of cute. So she told me, "Nothing important; when

01:21:38.860 - 01:22:02.510

you're in love, it's all here." She may be right. That's adorable. I hope one time you can tell me that. I’d love to share like after the recording. Finally, in conclusion, I would like to share with you.

01:22:02.910 - 01:22:18.360

Before I left for America to go to graduate schools, my father gave me a very serious talk, he told me two things, which I cherish. I think I will

01:22:18.390 - 01:22:35.100

cherish it for the rest of my life. He told me since you are my only daughter, I want to share with you first, even you get four years scholarship to go to graduate school, but English is a foreign language, you only

01:22:35.100 - 01:22:50.970

started to learn English when you were freshmen in college. So I really feel maybe you cannot catch up with the rest of the peers. Just in case you cannot finish your graduate student career, you

01:22:51.810 - 01:23:06.930

always can come back, you just give me a ring. Parents will greet you with all your friends and your beloved neighbors. That's the first thing. The second thing my father told me is, maybe I

01:23:07.130 - 01:23:19.140

can now go to United States, because we are not that rich to buy a flight ticket back then. He told me he said, "Now you are

01:23:19.140 - 01:23:31.850

only 21. But eventually you're getting married. You will have your own life, your own family. But I'm pretty sure my daughter well marry a good person because

01:23:32.190 - 01:23:43.460

I brought you right; so you will have a good person to get married. But unfortunately, a marriage is very complicated to good people may not

01:23:43.510 - 01:23:58.950

necessarily to have a good endings, just in case the marriage is now working. My daughter will always have the strengths to catch up to always fight from the beginning.

01:23:59.160 - 01:24:11.450

Well, have a good divorce, coming back and tell me I can get married. I can get divorce because my daughter is a very good person. She can do

01:24:11.450 - 01:24:27.150

both without any suffering." And to this date, I feel my father told me, women equal to men. We can do everything together. We can share the failure with my parents too.

01:24:28.000 - 01:24:36.590

So to this day, I do that to my children, my grandchildren, too. Thank you. Bye-bye.