00:00:01.620 - 00:00:14.900

This is Victoria Eng. And this is Arthur Cao. We’re here today, on June 12th, 2013 in the conference room of the office of Ted Wu to interview Linda Wu for the Houston Asian American Archive oral history interview

00:00:14.930 - 00:00:27.870

project. So to begin, can you tell us a little bit about yourself? Okay, um, I was born here in Houston in 1947, and at the time I was born in, um, the

00:00:27.870 - 00:00:41.550

Memorial Hospital, which has now been, um, you know—I don’t even know the address, but it’s no longer there. And, um, my parents were in the grocery and the restaurant business.

00:00:42.300 - 00:00:54.890

And I was the second child. I have an older sister—four years older, named Janita. So, you were born in Houston. Did you grow up in Houston your whole life?

00:00:55.250 - 00:01:08.810

Yes. I went to, um—actually, when I was born, we did—I lived above my parents’ grocery store. And when I was four years old, they, um, bought land in Bellaire, Texas.

00:01:09.160 - 00:01:21.620

So, from the age of four through Bellaire High School, I lived in Houston. And then, um, went to University of Texas in Austin. So, I’m a real native Houstan and Texan.

00:01:23.140 - 00:01:37.600

Where was your parents’ grocery store? It was on Jensen Drive. Um, I’m not sure where, you know, the address was, either. I’d like to go back. Um, did you ever help out in the grocery store?

00:01:37.900 - 00:01:54.550

Um, not in the grocery store, but, um, I did definitely help out in the restaurant. My dad had, um …. Let’s see. As a child, he had two, um, dine-in restaurants, and one was a take-out

00:01:54.630 - 00:02:13.150

restaurant. I think he was one of the first people to ever have Chinese take-out. Can you just—do you have any particular fond memories working in the restaurant? Uh, they were—very fond of some of—when I was probably just 12 years old, I was

00:02:13.150 - 00:02:23.840

working in one restaurant he called—that was Poly-Asian. And it was kind of, um, multi-Asian. It was tropical, like, Polynesian. It was Japanese.

00:02:24.030 - 00:02:39.280

It was Chinese. And, so, we had a gift shop. He imported a lot of gift items. So, it was a lot of fun. And then, in those days, um, it wasn’t, um, open-liquor. You had to be a member of a club and pay dues in order for

00:02:39.280 - 00:02:52.560

liquor to be served. So, a lot of the celebrities in Houston—not in Houston, but who would come to Houston, would always be taken to my dad’s restaurant because it—you know, they were entertained very well.

00:02:52.890 - 00:03:11.010

So, um, I remember as a child, uh, getting to meet a lot of movie stars. So, that was really fun. Do you remember any, like, particular ones? Ah, yeah. I met, um, a lot of people from the Rodeo— Mmm. —like, um, Roy Rogers, and Wyatt Earp, that was,

00:03:12.310 - 00:03:24.180

um—can’t remember his name—Hugh O’Brain was the actor, um. Elvis Presley came to my dad’s restaurant, um. A lot. Bob Hope. Um, a lot of them.

00:03:24.570 - 00:03:34.460

I have some pictures. I can show you. Did your father pay you like a normal employee? Um, he didn’t. I—not—no. It was sort of like expected.

00:03:35.050 - 00:03:48.790

And I was happy to do it because, you know, he never, um, put us really on—on an allowance, but if I work then, you know, he— I’d say, “Dad, you know, I wanna buy this or that,” and he would just give us whatever we needed.

00:03:48.950 - 00:04:05.640

So, it wasn’t like I had to watch the clock or anything, but we were expected to be there. And then, the take-out restaurant. That, um, was an experience, too because, you know, people were—two families were working then, uh, more and more.

00:04:05.640 - 00:04:22.010

And so, people would come and, um, would take family dinners home, and my job was to be the cashier and pack up the food. And then, another restaurant, when I was a teenager, I worked in the kitchen. And, um, I remember, you know, all the parties back then

00:04:22.050 - 00:04:30.030

for the Chinese kids that worked in the grocery stores and their parents’ restaurants. So we didn’t go out until, like, ten o’clock at night or later.

00:04:30.510 - 00:04:44.470

You know, I smelt bad sometimes because I felt like I smelled like, you know, egg roll or something being in the kitchen, and then going to parties. So, that was, you know, had from soup to nuts, from glamor to being in the kitchen,

00:04:44.740 - 00:04:52.700

so, and everything. Did your sister work in the restaurant also? Yes, way , way back then. Uh, how much older is she? Four years.

00:04:52.700 - 00:05:08.250

Four years, okay. Um, when you went to Bellaire—sorry, I—I should probably know this, but was it segregated? Um, actually, it was, um—you know, the

00:05:08.450 - 00:05:19.810

times were such that there were probably five Chinese at Bellaire when I was there, and for some reason it wasn’t really much of my memory. I think it was just starting.

00:05:20.660 - 00:05:40.270

Um, where there were no really Black families, you know, in Bellaire. So, we may have had one or two, but it wasn’t at all an issue. What, um, elementary and middle school did you attend? Uh, elementary school, I went to Condit and then Braeburn Elementary, and middle

00:05:40.290 - 00:05:54.630

school I went to Jane Long. And were they all predominantly white? Yes. So, the first neighborhood you lived in was—? Was in, um, on Jensen Drive–

00:05:54.820 - 00:06:11.020

Right. So, what—do you remember the—you were very young, so do you remember? I was very young. And then, actually, probably still as a toddler we moved to, uh, like an apartment duplex in Montrose, on Pacific Street, and I—I have memories of that

00:06:11.170 - 00:06:26.560

place. But, um, you know, not—basically, my childhood, I grew up in Bellaire, played—rode my bike, played with the neighbors, stayed out all day. What was the demographic of the neighborhood in Bellaire?

00:06:26.660 - 00:06:41.750

All white. In fact, um, my parents were not able to buy the lot where they built their house. Um, they had a lot of friends, and one of, uh, their friends actually bought the lot in his name.

00:06:41.930 - 00:06:55.130

He was a white, you know, Caucasian friend. And then, after he bought it, then he sold it to my father. Otherwise, we would not have been able to build. Do you remember how much that house

00:06:55.190 - 00:07:10.920

cost, or were you too young? Um, I think it was … somewhere in the neighborhood of, like, $25,000. That would have been—I was, like, four so—I was probably four. It was, like, 1951, something like that.

00:07:13.970 - 00:07:29.900

You said that when you worked in the restaurant, you didn’t get to—you didn’t get to go out till late. Did you ever—did that ever get in the way of social interactions with your friends? No. Um, back in those days, I mean, I would—I—like I said in Bellaire there were so few

00:07:30.110 - 00:07:47.160

Asians. I mean, like, Sharpstown, it used to be—it was the first air-conditioned mall, and if I saw any other Asian in that shopping center, I knew who they were. Um, so, socially, um, it isn’t like

00:07:47.160 - 00:07:57.280

it is today. All of my social friends were kind of separate from my school friends. Like I did things—like I was in the Bellaire Belles. I, you know, was on the drill team.

00:07:57.350 - 00:08:08.170

I was active in school clubs. I was on the student council. But once, um, it came, like, socializing, we had the Chinese American Citizens Alliance youth

00:08:08.320 - 00:08:20.290

club. And so, all my parties were, you know, with my Chinese friends in the youth club. And so, even though I lived in Bellaire—that was, like, far out. Most of the kids lived in the Black

00:08:20.380 - 00:08:36.240

neighborhoods, where the grocery stores were, the mom-and-pop grocery stores. So, um, we had a lot of parties at my house. My mother was really nice, and she liked having kids over. So, being in the restaurant business, my dad would, you know, fix some

00:08:37.020 - 00:08:49.870

food, and so everybody liked to come over just to eat. And, uh, we had, you know, like, a big record collection, and we had the old 45s, and so we, you know, had a lot of dance parties.

00:08:50.010 - 00:09:04.520

So, it really didn’t, um—you know, we had it, like, late. I mean, as a kid, I would be out until two in the morning because, um …. One thing though is, I had an older, um, boy cousin.

00:09:05.670 - 00:09:20.950

And so, he would take me, and my mom felt, you know, he was responsible; he was five years older. So, you know, that helped a lot. What were some of your favorite songs when you were in high school? Uh, well, I think in high school.

00:09:21.090 - 00:09:38.450

I have to—like Everly Brothers, and, oh, the—uh, you know, who was it? Paul Anka, and, um …. All those, like, name songs, like, “Judy’s Turn to Cry,” and, uh, Johnny this or that.

00:09:38.510 - 00:09:57.810

I didn’t really. Uh, Dion, and—who’s that—Dion and the Belmonts. I have to look at the list, but it was all of those, um, yeah, the 60s. Everly Brothers, did I say them? Mm-hmm. So, you went to UT.

00:09:58.770 - 00:10:11.330

How did you choose UT? Uh, I actually wanted to go to UC Berkeley, but my mom said that that was too far away and I had to stay in, uh, Texas.

00:10:11.940 - 00:10:26.400

So my mother went to Rice actually— Mm-hmm. —but, um, I wanted to go out of town. I wanted that college, you know, dorm experience. And my sister being four years older, she went to TCU, but

00:10:26.530 - 00:10:38.150

most of her friends, or most of, you know, the older girls that she went around with went to UT, and I just—I always wanted to go if I couldn’t go to California. Did you live on-campus, off-campus?

00:10:38.410 - 00:10:53.920

I lived at, um—on Blant—in Blanton Dorm for the first, I think, two years. And then, I lived, um, on another apart—I lived in two different apartments. And, uh, the last apartment I lived

00:10:54.010 - 00:11:06.860

in, it was called the Granada, and now that’s where the LBJ library is. And one of the most famous people who lived in the apartments where I did was Farrah Fawcett. And so, that was

00:11:07.050 - 00:11:24.720

kind of—even back at UT she was, you know, kind of a celebrity because she did local commercials on TV. Um, from when to when were you at UT? Uh, I graduated from Bellaire in ‘65, and I graduated in

00:11:24.720 - 00:11:39.250

January of ‘69. I finished in three and a half years. And that was motivated because my mother, she dropped out of Rice and never graduated because she met my father, and—and, you know,

00:11:40.340 - 00:11:56.410

she quit. So, she always said that no matter what we did, we had to finish college. So, um, I was dating Ted, my husband, and he was a couple years older than me, and so I wanted to hurry up and I got

00:11:56.480 - 00:12:10.120

married at 20—21. So, that was … So, did you meet, um, Ted in UT? No, I met him in San Antonio, where he’s from. And, um, it was through the CACA, um,

00:12:10.520 - 00:12:23.000

Houston Lodge and the San Antonio Lodge. They would have a social anniversary—each city would. So we met at a social there. Do you remember how much your tuition was?

00:12:23.660 - 00:12:37.580

Yes, it was $50 a semester. And you could take as many courses as you wanted. My mother—I remember I got a check for $1000 dollars. That lasted me the whole year including

00:12:37.680 - 00:12:49.640

tuition, including all my expenses. How about the student body? How much did the—like—how big was it, or—? How big was it? Uh, what is the demographic—

00:12:49.640 - 00:13:03.520

I think it was about 35,000. And, I remember, um, the activity fee; I think it was, like, $35, and you could go to all the football games, and, you know, you could—like, I remember, um, it included different

00:13:04.960 - 00:13:11.430

entertainers that would come on campus. And I remember going to see Simon and Garfunkel. That was really exciting.

00:13:11.900 - 00:13:23.800

One of them. The Beach Boys came to campus. Was the student body very diverse, or is it still also mostly white? There were, um, not that many,

00:13:25.450 - 00:13:37.600

um—you know, I really don’t know. Um, I can’t remember, but, um, you know, I knew all the Chinese students from Houston. And there were some, you

00:13:37.820 - 00:13:55.060

know, overseas Chinese from Hong Kong, I remember. And, um … but can’t give you any numbers. I wasn’t very active in any social Chinese organizations on campus, if there were any. At the time, were the

00:13:55.240 - 00:14:13.040

Chinese students at UT mostly born in America or came from overseas? I think, uh, most of ‘em were from overseas? I really don’t know. You know, it could have been the same amount of people.

00:14:13.520 - 00:14:22.760

You know, I have no clue. Wasn’t very aware of it. You got a degree in fashion merchandising? So, what did that entail?

00:14:23.330 - 00:14:35.810

Well, now they call it, I think human ecology, but back then it was home economics, and, um, textiles, clothing, and fashion design. And I always wanted to be a fashion buyer.

00:14:36.590 - 00:14:50.290

Um, my aunt, my mother’s sister, um, is an artist, and she lived in New York City. And I had really no idea, you know, what a buyer was. But I went to visit her, and she just thought, you know, I

00:14:50.340 - 00:15:02.220

would make a good buyer. I always like wanted—growing up, um, I always—my mother was born in San Antonio. She’s 92 today, so she was American-born, and, you know, my

00:15:02.240 - 00:15:16.240

background’s a little different, but she always—you know, she put me in dancing school. She put—I had piano lessons. And so, um, I always liked costumes and things like that. So, um, my goal was to be a buyer.

00:15:16.260 - 00:15:32.620

Um, and my first job, you know, after college was, uh, being a buyer. Well, going on the executive training program for Joske’s, San Antonio. And, they’re not in business anymore, but, um, the Dillard’s store, um, is

00:15:32.940 - 00:15:46.930

who took it over. So that’s what I did, um. I bought junior, uh, fashions, which, you know, were sort of like the teen here. Teen sizes. Trendy, fun clothes.

00:15:47.980 - 00:16:00.490

Did you ever work in college, or did you not need to? Uh, for $50 a semester. I—there were, um—I’m trying to remember. Did I have

00:16:00.970 - 00:16:18.930

any jobs? No. Um, if—probably … you know, no. Your, um, job as a fashion buyer? Mm-hmm. Did you have to do a lot of travel? Yeah, it was really a great job.

00:16:19.060 - 00:16:33.510

I would go to New York, like, every six weeks, California, about four times a year. I traveled to Italy, um, Israel. Um, and, um, it—it was a fun

00:16:33.970 - 00:16:49.990

experience for me because, um, not only did, you know, I get to see fashion, but, um, just the opportunity to meet other people from other sister stores around the country was a fun time. Why Israel?

00:16:51.170 - 00:17:03.920

Uh, leather. They had a very strong fashion house called Bagadour . I don’t know if they’re still in business or not, but they had really nice, uh, leathers. And that too was an

00:17:03.970 - 00:17:19.380

experience. I can’t remember exactly the time. It was probably in the late ’70s, but security back then was even very tight. We had to go through, um, being physically, um, patted down,

00:17:19.380 - 00:17:38.260

and, you know, you had to go, um, and they would take your hair dryer, and, you know, bobby pins, and everything was checked. And, um, so that was interesting. You got the job as a fashion buyer at 27, is that right?

00:17:39.110 - 00:17:51.060

Mmm. Probably younger. Let’s see. 20. Um, I was—when I first started, um …. When— when I first got married we went to Hong Kong.

00:17:51.320 - 00:18:04.370

Well, we went to the Philippines because Ted was in the Navy. And then, we moved to Hong Kong. And then, maybe a couple of years— . I would say maybe even 25 because I was only

00:18:04.660 - 00:18:20.210

on the training program for 10 months, and, um, I worked as an assistant for the Junior fashion buyer. And she quit. She had two young kids, and so then, uh, I remember personnel brought me in, and they

00:18:20.330 - 00:18:29.630

said, “Well, we would like you to just take her job.” And so, I was really, you know, kind of nervous about that. I didn’t know what I was doing. But they said, “We would, you know, keep

00:18:29.630 - 00:18:45.610

you as—you know, we’ll call you associate buyer, and you would have, like, nine months and see how it works out.” So, um, you know, I was probably younger. I can look it up if you want me to, but roughly that age.

00:18:46.160 - 00:19:00.590

What— So, oh— What was your experience like in the Philippines? In the Philippines, it was—again, it was—really broaden my horizons. Um, back in those

00:19:00.730 - 00:19:13.780

days, you know, you—you have to kind of visualize. When I went to, um, high school and college, we had to dress up. I mean, I think I even wore pantyhose to my classes.

00:19:14.940 - 00:19:25.270

And we didn’t wear slacks. We wore dresses. And those days, too, when you got on an airplane, you dress up. So, when I got to the Philippines.

00:19:26.560 - 00:19:38.140

The, um—my husband’s station, it was in like—it was called Sangley Point. It was Cavite City. And, everyone just wore rubber thongs.

00:19:38.140 - 00:19:50.720

I mean—which is really common today, but back then, I couldn’t believe how people were, you know, very poor. They were very—and Ted went first, and he emailed me. He didn’t email me. He wrote

00:19:50.750 - 00:20:07.960

me a letter, and he said, “You’ll—you know, please don’t be shocked when you see how it is over here.” So there were, you know, a lot of people that needed—needed medical care and, um, it was just, you know, third world, and ….

00:20:07.960 - 00:20:21.740

So, we, um, actually, not that many officers in the Navy brought their wives, but we had only been married, like, six months. And, so, um, he and another officer who’s just married also had his wife come.

00:20:22.300 - 00:20:38.660

So, we lived off-base in a, um, really nice, uh, apartment above our landlady. And, um, so, it was just a really cute, very nice house. Our air—we had air conditioning in our bedroom, but nowhere else.

00:20:38.780 - 00:20:52.410

But what really made me also very sad is, uh, there was a young girl who, um, asked us if she could be our house girl to work for us. And, you know, I thought, “Well, I don’t need a house

00:20:52.530 - 00:21:07.570

girl. I’ve not ever had anyone work for me.” But, she said, um, you know, that the officer’s wife—family who lived there before we did employed her, so if I didn’t employ her, then she

00:21:07.590 - 00:21:22.630

would be out—you know, not having any money to support herself. So, I said, “Sure, you know, we’ll do that.” But there was nothing for her to do, and it just made me laugh. Like, one day, um, I went, you know, off base—I mean not off base, but

00:21:23.090 - 00:21:35.690

away to the base— came back. And she was ironing my pantyhose ‘cause there was really nothing for her to do. But, um, you know, we just ….

00:21:35.690 - 00:21:54.840

You know, that was the, um—one of the things that I’ll always remember. Were there any, um, operations during the time you were there, for Ted? Operations? He was a communications officer, and so he would fly from, um,

00:21:56.640 - 00:22:10.570

you know, the base in the Philippines to Vietnam. And he was … you know. During the war? Yeah. During the Vietnam War. And the whole time, you stayed in the Philippines? I did, while we—yeah, while he

00:22:10.570 - 00:22:19.730

was based there. But then, you have to remember too, that that wasn’t the height of the war. It was winding down.

00:22:19.730 - 00:22:34.340

In fact, he was separated from the Navy in the Philippines because, um, you know, normally what you would do is you would fly—they would fly us back to the U.S. And so they were winding down, and so then, Ted requested, um,

00:22:34.620 - 00:22:47.100

since we were already there and he had—he had a sister living in Hong Kong. So, from there, he just said, “Well, we’ll be separated, you know, released from the Navy here.” And then, we moved to the—to Hong Kong.

00:22:47.180 - 00:22:59.040

And then, we lived there for a while. Did you work in the Philippines? Ah, no, I didn’t work there. No, I basically just, um, took classes,

00:23:00.680 - 00:23:12.100

you know, went to the officers’ club, met whatever few, um, officers’ wives that were there, and went to Manila, did some sightseeing.

00:23:12.250 - 00:23:23.420

It wasn’t there—I wasn’t there that long. It was probably six months at the most. What classes did you take? Um, you know, it was like, uh ….

00:23:23.440 - 00:23:37.460

I don’t even remember. But, it was on the campus, you know. There weren’t, you know, things, like, towards a degree or anything. It was just whatever, like, leisure learning kind of things.

00:23:37.880 - 00:23:45.830

You know, could have been cooking. I don’t remember, but. On campus? No, on the base. Oh, on the base. Yeah, on the military base there.

00:23:48.410 - 00:23:58.520

Um, what year was that that you were in the Philippines? Uh, that would have been, like, uh, ’69. And then you went to Hong Kong afterwards? Mm-hmm. How long did you stay in Hong Kong?

00:23:59.050 - 00:24:15.130

Uh, about a year. What did you do there? Okay, in Hong Kong, I did take Cantonese lessons because being born here, um …. My mother was born in San Antonio, but her parents came from, um, Canton, so she knew

00:24:15.240 - 00:24:27.030

Toisan. And then, um, when I—my sister learned Chinese first, but by the time when I was born, I didn’t speak because they spoke English. My sister was already going to

00:24:27.070 - 00:24:44.430

school. So, I took, um, Cantonese. And then, I also, um, was, uh, you know, interested in fashion, so I had some contacts in the—in Houston who wanted to see if I could find factories in Hong Kong

00:24:44.670 - 00:24:52.390

to send back bell- bottom jeans. Do you remember? Bell-bottom jeans were real big then. So, I was trying to make

00:24:52.390 - 00:25:06.640

contacts, and it wasn’t the easiest thing, um. But, um, did a little bit of that, and then met other, um, U.S. expatriates. Like, there was an American club, and just, you know,

00:25:07.300 - 00:25:23.470

again, um, more social and enjoy myself. Can you describe Hong Kong at the time? Um, at the time, we lived in this area—it’s really interesting. I just read where—where we

00:25:23.570 - 00:25:35.870

lived, uh, is the most expensive shopping space per square foot in the world. Are y’all familiar with Hong Kong? Yeah. Okay, Heysen Avenue, Lee—the Lee.

00:25:36.720 - 00:25:49.510

Um, it’s Heysen—Happy Valley, and we were on Heysen Avenue, and there was a hotel called Lee Gardens. And there were a lot of, like, um, automobile showrooms.

00:25:50.380 - 00:26:01.450

And we lived in this mid-rise called Heysen … Aven— The west of the island? The west part of the island? It was—I don’t even know. It was Happy Valley.

00:26:03.150 - 00:26:12.510

It’s—it’s sort of— Is it on the island? Oh, yeah, it’s on Hong Kong Island. But, um, I’m trying to—Leighton Road. Do you know where Leighton Road is?

00:26:14.800 - 00:26:28.370

Not exactly sure. Okay, well, now I think they have all the designer couture, uh, you know, retail stores there. So, I’d love to go back and see it. But, um, at the time, if you—if you want to know about

00:26:28.530 - 00:26:43.640

prices, we, um, were actually subleasing from a lady who was a, uh—a designer, and a—uh, she had a retail store. And her name … I can’t remember.

00:26:43.700 - 00:26:58.260

First name is Dorothy. And, um, she subleased her apartment to us, and it was $125, U.S., a month. And, um, it had a balcony.

00:26:58.670 - 00:27:09.440

I wish I had brought those pictures. It had a balcony, and, um, you know, it was just a one bedroom, one bath, kitchen, living room for 125 U.S..

00:27:10.570 - 00:27:28.030

And now that—I don’t remember how—what the price per square foot is, but now, you know. But it has been a long time, like, 40, over 40 years, so. Were there a lot of, um, foreigners living in Hong Kong? Yes, I like—like—our next door neighbor was British.

00:27:29.590 - 00:27:42.010

Um, have you—have you heard of, um—have you heard of Run Run? Well, never mind. That’s—that—well, it was very interesting. Um, I was going to say Run Run Shaw, the movie.

00:27:42.920 - 00:27:59.330

It was like Warner Brothers, Shaw brothers. Um, anyway, some people that lived around us were involved—uh, connected with that. Um, there were a group of, um … mainly from Europe because at that time Hong Kong was a British

00:27:59.370 - 00:28:18.200

colony. So, a lot of people from, you know, Britain. And also, uh, we had mainly American friends. Did you ever go off the island to Kowloon? Oh, yeah, we took the Star Ferry, and we would go to Kowloon and, um,

00:28:20.450 - 00:28:33.870

my brother-in-law at the time was an architect, so he did a lot of projects in Hong Kong. He did, uh—what—I think it’s still the Sheraton on the Kowloon side.

00:28:34.110 - 00:28:52.030

He, um, built that and Mei Foo Village, which was, like a community that Mobil Oil was involved with. Um, we …. We had a lot of, you know, relatives and friends that we were able to meet at

00:28:53.280 - 00:29:07.020

the time. Was it difficult or easy to get around, um, using English in Hong Kong at the time? Not so much. I mean, my—you know, like, I was trying to learn Chinese, but it wasn’t very successful.

00:29:07.200 - 00:29:21.110

And so, um, it—you know, most—because it was an English colony, a lot—most people did speak English. That, you know, as far as business and getting around any place that

00:29:21.670 - 00:29:35.120

had a lot of tourists, we’d be able to communicate. But, you know, locally, for me, like when I went to the market, um, I would have to, you know, try to use my Toisan, and sometimes that wasn’t so good. And I know, you know, at that

00:29:35.120 - 00:29:51.820

time, you know, like hairdos and things, I would go like to the beauty shop, like, once a week, and they all would say—and I didn’t have enough Chinese to correct them, but they would say, “Oh, here comes the Japanese lady.” Because I couldn’t speak, you

00:29:52.690 - 00:30:09.050

know, like—but they, you know, but, before too long they would know I was not, you know, a native of Hong Kong. What did your husband do? At that time, he was, um, fresh out of the Navy.

00:30:09.690 - 00:30:23.450

He had his bachelor’s degree in business from SMU. And, um, we met, uh, a developer from Hawaii named Chinn Ho. And Chinn Ho, um,

00:30:24.460 - 00:30:40.330

was a big developer, and he bought a lot of property in Makaha, in Hawaii. And he wanted to build, um, condominiums, and market them to wealthy Chinese in Hong Kong because, I think,

00:30:41.340 - 00:30:56.420

1997 was when Hong Kong reverted back to China. So, he felt that if—these wealthy people might want to, you know, immigrate to the U.S. So, Ted, um, met Chinn Ho, and was hired, uh,

00:30:57.360 - 00:31:10.750

to market his condominiums. So, he had a office in, um, I think it was Union House in Central District, but that was a whole funny story because, right, he’s from San Antonio.

00:31:11.770 - 00:31:21.120

And to be raised in Texas, you know, we didn’t even know what a condominium was. It was, like, totally a new thing. So, um, he—he

00:31:22.090 - 00:31:38.280

uh—you know, after a year, you know, I don’t think he even kept the office open, so it was kind of like a, uh—an adventure, again. But, we did, you know, meet a lot of people, and tried

00:31:38.330 - 00:31:51.820

to market that idea. So, we spent a lot of time just meeting people and trying to, you know, do business selling condominiums. So, you helped him? Well, it—everything there, I think, um

00:31:52.900 - 00:32:04.700

…. I didn’t—you know, I didn’t go to the office. Like had his own secretary and people there, but when it came, you know, I invited to social events and things like that, I went with him.

00:32:07.320 - 00:32:24.520

And so, when did you come back to the U.S.? Uh, probably in ’71, something like that. And you came back, straight back to Houston? Uh, well, that’s … no. We went to San Antonio.

00:32:25.200 - 00:32:37.970

And that’s— he went to law school in St. Mary’s University. And then that’s when I started working at Joske’s, San Antonio. And then, I think we—we lived in San Antonio for about three years because

00:32:38.380 - 00:32:52.870

I think law school takes about three years. And when—you know—I think he’s gonna be on the, um, program to be interviewed. But, um, when he was work—when he was going to law

00:32:52.940 - 00:33:05.000

school, he was also working for the Bexar County Attorney's office. It's kind of all fuzzy to me. How did you like San Antonio? I loved it. I—I really like San Antonio.

00:33:06.730 - 00:33:19.040

Was it a lot different back then? Um, it was much more—um, you know, the traffic wasn’t what it was. It wasn’t as developed. Um, it—it just to me seemed ….

00:33:20.450 - 00:33:30.750

You know, the natural beauty of San Antonio. It was a little bit hillier, and, you know, it—it—I don’t know if it has zoning, but, you know, there weren’t as many, like, strip centers.

00:33:30.790 - 00:33:45.280

It just had more charm to me, than Houston. Is there a location that left you particular impression? Uh, well, we lived with his mom, and his mom lives near Trinity University. And so, it was

00:33:45.280 - 00:33:58.090

the older section, and very …. It just reminds me, um …. It’s just more green at the time, maybe. I don’t know. Have you gone back?

00:33:59.200 - 00:34:12.640

Um, I was just there about, uh, two or three weeks ago to visit a friend, but we don’t really—and my sister-in-law still lives there. So, we do have family. Did it change over time?

00:34:13.680 - 00:34:24.730

Um, San Antonio? You know, when we go, we just go to see the people. And when my kids were little, we did go and—Fiesta Texas, and Sea World, and

00:34:25.270 - 00:34:38.070

all of those things, but I really, um, haven’t, you know, seen it, but I know the traffic’s not so good, and, um. I know there are a lot of restaurants in re—like, the Pearl Brewery.

00:34:38.210 - 00:34:52.750

They have a really nice development of restaurants. And, you know, San Antonio, it’s such a—does so much with tourism and the Alamo that it is, um—you know, they do a nice job. But when I—when I worked at Joske’s in

00:34:52.930 - 00:35:06.700

San Antonio, that was right next door to the Alamo, and so that was kind of a fun place, you know, to work, too. So, when you came back to Houston, that was after he finished the law degree?

00:35:07.050 - 00:35:20.620

Correct. And, you worked in the Joske’s here? Correct. Was that the Galleria one? Yes, yeah. They were really nice, um, because when …. I was—I guess I was a buyer for

00:35:20.620 - 00:35:36.330

maybe three years in San Antonio, so I knew all the Houston merchandisers. And so, um, my, uh—my sales were very good. They—and I think it was timing.

00:35:36.330 - 00:35:48.980

I don’t think I had a magic touch or anything, but I had really good numbers. So, when Ted got a job in Houston, the—the people in Houston, they moved their junior buyer so that I can

00:35:49.440 - 00:36:01.660

take her job. So, I just—it just worked out really well. They, you know, welcomed me. I just got a job transfer. Did you get a lot of Chinese or Asian customers?

00:36:03.790 - 00:36:15.380

No. No. Um, as a matter of fact, uh, I guess it was sort of, maybe, you know— again, I have to put things in perspective.

00:36:16.080 - 00:36:31.200

Um, you know, growing up, fashion, I think became a thing, and it was that whole Beatles thing. There was, um, Carnaby look. There was like Mary

00:36:31.630 - 00:36:45.390

Quant, and, you know. Fashion was a way of expressing yourself. Things became different. And so, after I worked at Joske’s—or, actually when I was still in San Antonio, I had a girlfriend, um,

00:36:46.500 - 00:37:03.600

who was working at Joske’s in Austin. And, um, well, she wasn’t my friend yet, but we met. And then there was another—and she became a buyer and actually worked for me in Houston. And then there was another Chinese girl that went to UT, and she’s about two years younger

00:37:03.600 - 00:37:15.340

than me. And she became a buyer, as well. So, at one time, there were three Chinese buyers at Joske’s, so that was unusual. I mean, not so mu—you know, our customers were part of

00:37:15.400 - 00:37:31.780

whatever the demographics of Houston was at the time, but, you know whatever we bought was just mainstream. Like, you know, one of my biggest, you know, vendors was, like, Levi’s jeans, and, um, a lot of the people that I bought

00:37:32.100 - 00:37:45.790

from are now no longer in business. But, um, you know, it was, uh, interesting. And how long did you work with Joske’s? Um, I stopped working for them in,

00:37:48.270 - 00:38:02.910

uh, probably ’81, something like that. Yeah, about ’81. Do you remember your salaries? You know, I was—I was thinking that I should go check any

00:38:03.580 - 00:38:20.260

stubs. Um, I think when I quit it was in the 30,000 range, plus bonus. It was, like, around 37 plus bonus. Was the bonus based on how well your sales were?

00:38:21.800 - 00:38:33.260

And on—well it was based on not sales, but profit. And so, you know, you always hear about inventory, so—and then markdown. So, it’s your gross margin, your profit margin.

00:38:35.510 - 00:38:49.840

Why did you quit? Because I had, um, at that time, a two-year-old. And, I had a lady who, um, you know, helped me, and then she wasn’t able to help me

00:38:50.130 - 00:39:06.010

anymore. With traveling, I just felt like, okay, it’s time. And then, I was also kind of interested in, um, real estate, so I got my broker’s license. So, then I started, you know, getting into real estate.

00:39:07.980 - 00:39:16.850

What neighborhood did you live in at this time? Um, where I am now, actually. Well, when I—when we—the first house that we bought in Houston was in Bellaire.

00:39:16.850 - 00:39:28.740

And then—um, I—I grew up in Bellaire. And then, we bought a house in Bellaire to be close to my mother. And then, in, um, 1980, we bought a

00:39:28.740 - 00:39:37.360

house, what is now the Westchase area. It’s near Memorial and Kirkwood. So, west Houston.

00:39:39.760 - 00:39:49.790

What was the demographic like? Uh, where? Or when? Uh, ’81. In my neighborhood? Yes.

00:39:50.500 - 00:40:04.430

Um. Well, basically just white and a few minorities. I don’t think—I—I know I had one Black—you know, you want to know, like, ethnically? I had one—in our

00:40:04.920 - 00:40:20.150

subdivision, there was one Black family and, um, maybe a couple of other Asian families. And, I’m not talking anymore than, like, 150 houses. Not that big of a neighborhood. So, the demographic

00:40:20.740 - 00:40:31.780

did change from when you grew up to when you got back— Yeah. —like not drastically, but it changed. Yeah, but this is in west Houston. In Bellaire, when we were there, um, I

00:40:32.190 - 00:40:45.460

don’t remember any Black families in—you know, in the … but there could be. I just don’t remember ‘cause at that—when we lived in Bellaire, Ted and I were both working. We—we were married for, like,

00:40:45.510 - 00:40:59.930

10 years before we had kids, and so I was basically just a career person. I didn’t—you know, just drive to and from work and didn’t really know my neighbors. You said you have a two-year-old in

00:41:00.270 - 00:41:15.350

’81. What—is that your only child? Uh, hat was my only child until ’83, and then I had another one. A girl ; I have a girl and a boy. What are they doing now?

00:41:16.440 - 00:41:35.620

My son lives in Los Angeles, and he is a, uh—what is he? He’s a director of global marketing for Mattel. And, uh, my daughter, um, is a doctor of physical therapy in Chicago and works at

00:41:35.700 - 00:41:51.430

the Rehab Institute of Chicago. Did they, um, attend school in Texas like you did? Um, they went to Kinkaid for, uh—well, actually, my daughter went to—they started out

00:41:51.460 - 00:42:07.340

both in pri—uh, public, and then, uh, the Village School, and Kinkaid for my daughter. And then my son just went to Kinkaid from lower, middle, and high school. And then he went to Brown,

00:42:07.340 - 00:42:24.640

and my daughter went to Northwestern. What are their names? What are their names? My son is Ted Albert Wu, or Theodore Albert Wu. He—he’s named after Ted’s—Ted is actually, uh, Junior.

00:42:25.190 - 00:42:42.890

So, um, we named our son after their grandparents, my dad and Ted’s dad. And then my daughter is Kristen, K-R-I-S-T-E-N, Wu. Kristen Gale, G-A-L-E,

00:42:42.980 - 00:42:57.440

which is my middle name, too. You spent the first 10 years of your marriage, you said, working, and did you ever feel—did you ever face discrimination working at Joske’s even though—because you mentioned

00:42:57.440 - 00:43:13.140

that you’re a minority? Mm-hmm. Um, not—no, I never—I never felt, um, discrimination as an adult. As a child, when I went to, um, Condit, I remember feeling, you know,

00:43:13.820 - 00:43:28.850

discriminated. I was sheltered, I guess. So I remember, um, going to, uh—in kindergarten, we stayed in our own little classroom, but in first grade is when you go into the big lunchroom.

00:43:28.940 - 00:43:44.260

And I remember things like, um, you know, kids, you know, like pointing at me and saying, “Oh, you’re Chinese.” And it wasn’t malicious, but it made me feel different. And, um … you know.

00:43:44.260 - 00:43:59.310

And then later on, like, lower school, just boys being mean boys, I remember, but, um, yeah. Because, I—it—I don’t think today, if—there’s probably different discrimination, but it was more like just

00:43:59.310 - 00:44:18.600

being different, you know, not knowing exactly, you know, what to think about me. Back— In the workplace, I never like it was—it was a negative. And you actually—uh, going back, when you said you were in Hong Kong, um, the natives assumed that you were Japanese because you couldn’t speak Cantonese.

00:44:19.150 - 00:44:30.480

Was there any negative repercussions to that, or they just knew that you couldn’t communicate as well? Hmm, I never …. I—you know, it’s interesting, okay. I never felt, um ….

00:44:32.510 - 00:44:49.660

I think Hong Kong is very, um, class-oriented, and I felt like because I was an American coming back that, yeah, I—I didn’t feel comfortable, like, being around some of, you know, the

00:44:50.120 - 00:45:04.260

Hong Kong, uh … Natives? Right, you know, the wealthy. The wealthy people in Hong Kong, I felt a little less comfortable around because, you know, it’s—it’s kind of the same thing here when,

00:45:05.680 - 00:45:22.140

um—I—I know they don’t mean to be, um—I don’t wanna use the word rude. But, you know, you always want to be—like, if you feel more comfortable expressing yourself in your first language. And so, you know, if you don’t understand it, well then, you know, you—people have to

00:45:22.140 - 00:45:38.990

always say, “Oh, well what they said was, ‘blah blah blah,’” and, so, you know, that would come into play. So that would be uncomfortable. Because I didn’t want people to have to take the time to ayou know, explain to me what everybody else was, you know, listening to, or

00:45:39.800 - 00:45:55.740

the, uh, discussion so that—that always is …. You—you said you speak Toisan. Who did you learn it from?

00:45:55.760 - 00:46:08.080

Okay, um, I would listen to my parents when I was younger, but they usually spoke Chinese to each other if they didn’t want my par—uh, you know, my sister and I to know what they were talking about.

00:46:08.680 - 00:46:22.260

But when, uh, I had my son, and I was working, my, um, family had a very good friend who had a relative who came from Hong Kong and needed, um, to stay

00:46:22.310 - 00:46:39.470

with somebody. So, I thought, “Great, you know, that way my child would learn Cantonese and, um, that would be very helpful.” So she would—this lady spoke Cantonese to my son, and, um,

00:46:39.470 - 00:46:51.950

I learned—picked up some Cantonese, but it was mixed with Toisan. So—but that came later. You know, my—my learning Toisan came, like, ’79 forward, except for what I picked up—

00:46:53.660 - 00:47:07.910

Did you— —as a kid. Did you only speak it at home, or did you ever use it working at your father’s restaurant? No, because my dad’s, uh, clientele were not Chinese. It was mainly, you know, uh,

00:47:08.140 - 00:47:21.870

Caucasian. So when people came to the restaurant, I spoke English. It—it was so different because back then, there weren’t enough Chinese, um, even to be, you know like, waitstaff or

00:47:21.870 - 00:47:34.830

anything. My dad’s—in fact I might have some pictures of his waitstaff that were basically, you know, either Caucasian, Hispanic, or—I don’t know if we had black waiters. No, probably not.

00:47:38.400 - 00:47:53.290

Does your son speak, um—? He—yeah, he picked it up, but, um, she—she, um, didn’t stay with us so long, but part— you know, part of it always, when you’re young, I think it comes back.

00:47:53.330 - 00:48:09.090

And he, um, he wish he could speak now because for Mattel, like, he goes to China, visits factories in China, so it would be very helpful if he could do that, but ….

00:48:09.090 - 00:48:22.960

After Joske’s, you went into real estate. Correct. Uh, how were you introduced to that? Again, my mother was, uh, a real estate broker. And so, um, I got my broker’s license as

00:48:23.130 - 00:48:40.540

well. So it was, you know, just part of, uh, connections with my mom. And how long did you do that for? Uh, I kept my license for quite a while. Um, I can’t remember. Probably to the mid-90s.

00:48:40.720 - 00:48:51.720

Probably to the mid-90s. And you’re currently retired now? Right. Um, so you’re very involved in the community here. Could you tell us about some of the

00:48:51.760 - 00:49:05.660

things you do or have done? Um, it’s interesting because a lot of things I’m involved in now are because of, you know, my parents. The main one is Chinese American Citizens Alliance,

00:49:06.200 - 00:49:20.470

and I started out as a member of their youth club. And, um, when we moved back from San Antonio to Houston—that was a few years later. CACA use to be a fraternal lodge.

00:49:21.070 - 00:49:34.360

There were no women members. There were only women in the auxiliary, which was a separate organization. So after, um, coming back to Houston, then the men and the women joined together.

00:49:35.360 - 00:49:48.840

And so I was always involved, and main—one of the main reasons is the Miss Chinatown Houston pageant. And, um, that was started, like, informally probably in the late 60s.

00:49:49.460 - 00:50:01.520

And then into the 70s, it became, you know, more of a—an event of its own and not part of this picnic that used—we used to have. So, um, I’ve been involved the Miss Chinatown Houston pageant

00:50:02.310 - 00:50:15.410

for probably 30 years. Um, another organization is the Houston-Taipei sister city organization, and I’ve been on the board of that for quite some time.

00:50:15.410 - 00:50:29.770

My mother was, again, um, a charter member and helped, um, hap—you know, make that happen. Um, I love the arts as well, and I’m on the board of Dance of Asian America.

00:50:30.770 - 00:50:48.670

Um, and, uh, vice-president of that, and that is, you know, bringing the arts of China to, uh, Houston. And they put on two shows, um, a year at Miller Theater. And, um, I am involved in another organization

00:50:49.700 - 00:51:02.420

that’s not Asian-oriented, but it’s called the Women’s Fund for Health Education and Research. And, you know, I feel like women do so much for everybody else, and sometimes they don’t take care of themselves, so I got

00:51:02.440 - 00:51:17.800

involved with that. Um, my sister had open-heart surgery and that was about the time I got involved with that organization. And, um, uh, let’s see. What am I—? I can’t remember what else I have

00:51:21.770 - 00:51:40.590

put down there, but, that, um …. Oh, a new organization that I’m really, um, very happy to be on the board of is the Chinese Community Center, and they do so much, not only for the Chinese community but for the community in general. So, that, um—I enjoy spending time

00:51:40.590 - 00:51:56.990

there. For the, um, Taipei Society, did you—so you don’t have any relation to Taiwan. So it’s— No, but, um—what—that organization began before

00:51:58.440 - 00:52:16.950

China was recognized officially, you know, as, um—you know, by the United Nations. And so Taiwan was always, you know, a great friend to the United States, and there was a long history there.

00:52:17.610 - 00:52:32.650

And so, um, the Houston Taipei Society, I think they’ve been sister cities for 51 years. And so that was the natural allegiance. And a lot of the old Chinese here in Houston, you know, they helped

00:52:33.160 - 00:52:46.290

Taiwan, um, you know, by donating a lot of money when, you know, they were, um, you know, our friends for a long time, and so it’s a historical thing.

00:52:46.740 - 00:53:02.260

So although, you know, I don’t have any relatives or Taiwanese— or, um, Chinese relatives living in Taiwan, that association was, you know, more of a friendship for the freedom, the US.

00:53:02.260 - 00:53:24.950

What do you think about the mainland-Taiwan relationship today? Um, I—it—it’s—it’s interesting because I think now it’s the green—I—I don’t know that much about the politics, and I know it’s very, um, tenuous, but

00:53:25.740 - 00:53:40.450

it seemed like in Houston, anyway, it—there was not a big, you know, mixing between the people from Taiwan and, you know, China. But now, you know, a lot of them are very,

00:53:42.270 - 00:53:50.850

um—you know, it’s not like two separate groups. And I think a lot of it is the economics. So, um, really don’t have a strong

00:53:51.740 - 00:54:06.670

opinion about that. Have you been to Taiwan? I have, but it’s been years, years ago. I went for the first time with Houston Taipei Society when I was 16. And, uh, I don’t know.

00:54:07.060 - 00:54:22.530

I think I may have been back one other time, but maybe not. I don’t—I think that is the last time I went, so. What was the experience like? Uh, it was—it was interesting.

00:54:22.740 - 00:54:39.000

We stayed at, um, a hotel that, um—it—it was modern, but it was, um, you know, not up to, you know, like a—a US hotel at the time.

00:54:39.550 - 00:54:53.450

And I remember, I w—this is just silly, you know, just my impression, just—I remember going into the bathroom and then I couldn’t get out because the door knob didn’t work. And so, here I was, you

00:54:53.450 - 00:55:08.170

know, stuck in the bathroom, and I was just, like, a teenager, and I was like, “Let me outta here! Let me out!” And, um, anyway, to me it was um, again, you know, just a lot of bicycle traffic, and a lot of

00:55:08.820 - 00:55:22.190

noise, and it was—it was interesting. I know it’s changed a lot, but it was—it—what I remember, also, how many people had perfect English in Taiwan. They were—we met a lot of

00:55:22.320 - 00:55:34.690

people from Taipei, you know, in the—on the, uh, city council, and the mayor, and I was very impressed with them. How ‘bout the mainland? Have you ever been there?

00:55:35.720 - 00:55:49.960

Only to the New Territories, you know, back when we lived there, and, uh, I made one other trip. But no, I want to—both of my kids have been to China, to Beijing, Shanghai, and had

00:55:50.000 - 00:56:01.080

trips, but I haven’t been. It’s on my bucket list. Are you planning to visit where your grandparents are from? That I would like to do.

00:56:01.300 - 00:56:17.450

Um, one of my friends, uh, put out a survey. I think she’s been interviewed, Rogene Gee Calvert? And I’m a member of the Gee Family Association, and, um, she put out a survey a couple of years ago.

00:56:17.450 - 00:56:29.190

And we were thinking about going in 2014, but I haven’t heard any, uh—haven’t heard an update on that. But definitely want to go to the Gee family village and—and, um, do that.

00:56:32.730 - 00:56:48.250

Your, um, two children, did you—what are some particular Chinese traditions that you raised them with? Or did you raise them with Chinese traditions? Um, you know, it—I—I really was not raised with, um,

00:56:48.540 - 00:57:04.690

Chinese traditions. My mother, being born in San Antonio, um, we never even celebrated Chinese New Years. Um, she was really very Americanized, and so we started observing

00:57:05.880 - 00:57:18.410

Chinese New Years, I think, more from an educational standpoint, because it was, you know, celebrated actually at their schools, and— you know, for people—the cultural awareness.

00:57:19.330 - 00:57:39.440

And so, um you know, we always just did the Chinese lei see and, um, you know, that’s about it. Why did you choose to send your kids to the Kinkaid school?

00:57:40.850 - 00:57:56.740

Um, I—I went to—you know, all through public school in Houston. And my husband went to private school in San Antonio. And so, you know, I think he was—took more of the lead

00:57:57.490 - 00:58:09.100

with their education in that regard. But when my son was, um—he—he went to a school called— actually I forgot one of his schools.

00:58:09.150 - 00:58:24.400

He went to, um, school at Grace Presbyterian in second grade. And, um, his teacher told me—every mother’s dream hearing this.

00:58:24.990 - 00:58:39.020

Said, “Oh, your son is so exceptional and bright and I really think you ought to consider to sending him to, you know, a St. John’s or Kinkaid.” And so, um, I said, “Oh

00:58:39.200 - 00:58:47.660

really?” And so, um, anyway. So for third grade I—he applied at Kinkaid. We didn’t do St. John’s. And also the Vanguard

00:58:47.700 - 00:59:01.380

program. And so, he got into Vanguard, but he didn’t get into Kinkaid. So then the next year, um, I think we applied again to Kinkaid, and so he got accepted. And he didn’t want to go.

00:59:01.480 - 00:59:11.640

He said, “I don’t wanna go there. I’m just—I’ll be moving to three schools in three years.” And so, I said, “Well, just try it. You might like it.” So he did.

00:59:12.330 - 00:59:27.410

And he—it was like he just really, really liked it. And the kids were all very welcoming, and he had a great experience, and it was good for him. And then, with my daughter, she also went to, uh, you know,

00:59:28.050 - 00:59:39.890

public school. And then, uh, Village is very close to where I live, and so we just had her go through lower school Village, and then she transferred in middle school to Kinkaid.

00:59:40.470 - 00:59:54.580

‘Cause at that time I don’t think Village had a middle school. What was the tuition at the time? Why did—? Oh, tuition. Tuition. Oh. Tuition, uh,

00:59:57.590 - 01:00:12.430

I don’t remember what it was, you know, in the lower grades, but when my daughter graduated from Kinkaid in 2002, I think it was like $11,000 for high sch—upper school. Something like that. Per year?

01:00:15.240 - 01:00:34.170

Uh-huh. So, I—and, uh, I wanna say, you know—I hate to do this, but maybe like in the lower school, maybe $2,500, maybe $3,000? $5,000? I don’t know. I could go look.

01:00:34.170 - 01:00:47.850

I save everything. I mean if it’s important, I can look if you want, but …. Um, while you worked as a real estate broker, what parts of town did you sell? Um, I did, you know, mainly the southwest.

01:00:48.170 - 01:00:58.910

Like, um, Bellaire, um, close in, you know, like, uh, just southwest. That’s pretty much it.

01:01:00.110 - 01:01:15.260

What was your client group? My client group were people that I knew, you know, just within the community. I didn’t— um, I mean I did work at, um, it was called McGirt at the time and then it became Prudential

01:01:16.710 - 01:01:28.970

Texas. And so, we all had like office duty where we would answer the phones and, you know, pick up just walk-in type of people. But for the most part, it was just through my community.

01:01:31.020 - 01:01:44.670

Was it a full-time job? Well, with real estate, you know, it can be more flexible. You can kind of make your own— own hours, but um, a lot of it—especially in residential, you do a lot of it on the weekends. And

01:01:44.670 - 01:02:06.460

so, um, you know, I—uh, you know, also probably, you know, as my kids got older, that time became important, so didn’t do as much of it then. What is your political affiliation?

01:02:06.980 - 01:02:22.960

Um, I am—you know, when it comes to—down to it, I really vote for the person, but, um, I am more like a moderate Republican.

01:02:25.170 - 01:02:36.020

And why is that? Because I believe in smaller government. I feel like, you know, people, um—times have really, you know, changed.

01:02:36.470 - 01:02:49.010

I’ve seen a lot change. And I feel like, um, you know, people expect more from the government, and not so much, um ….

01:02:49.030 - 01:03:02.430

You know, I think that enables people. I mean, I—I think we need to help ‘em—people too. I mean I’m not saying that there are definitely legitimate—legitimate reasons, but I think sometimes when government gets too

01:03:02.480 - 01:03:20.920

big, it’s hard to oversee, and therefore, um, you know, people have a tendency, you know, to not spend wisely. Would you say that you’re a, uh, politically active person?

01:03:21.550 - 01:03:42.460

No, that’s not my, um you know, strong suit. No. How about your family? My family? Um … not—I mean in terms of like—not—not really. I mean, I—I like to support

01:03:42.720 - 01:04:00.320

people if I feel like they would, you know, be a good leader, you know, in their position. Like, you know, example is I mentioned Rogene Gee Calvert is running for city council. And, um, I think Rogene is a Democrat, but you know, I know Rogene, and I think she’d do

01:04:00.770 - 01:04:14.450

an excellent job. And, you know, actually city council, it’s not like—they don’t have, you know, parties. So you’re never a Democrat or a Republican. Um, but, you know, I really support her.

01:04:14.480 - 01:04:31.520

So I’m really more for the—the person, um, and uh, rather than, you know, straight-line. I don’t ever go and vote straight-line Republican. But in general, my philosophy is not for big government.

01:04:33.420 - 01:04:51.500

All the, um, Asian community, uh, organizations that you are involved in, do you see, uh, a lot of political, uh, activity among those organizations? Well, like this, uh, CACA, Chinese American Citizens Alliance,

01:04:52.120 - 01:05:06.470

we’re, you know, for, you know, the Chinese, uh, you know, and protecting our civil rights. And sometimes that does involve politics, um, you know, to make sure that our voices are

01:05:06.470 - 01:05:19.770

heard. And, you know, I feel very strongly about that. I mean I don’t follow anything just because I am Chinese, but I think, you know, it is, um, you know, definitely an area

01:05:19.940 - 01:05:35.810

that I wanna make sure that whatever is fair and, you know, uh …. In other words, I don’t want to be a silent person, but I’m not—I’m kind of a reluctant, um, leader.

01:05:36.070 - 01:05:53.270

I’m not a person that really enjoys, you know, going out there. I’m not a person that I feel that can do a lot in terms of, um, getting people roused up and following, you

01:05:54.420 - 01:06:08.210

know—following my lead. Um, you were president of the CACA. Yes. Well, I—I—you know, I’ve been so, um—I felt like it was a responsibility to do.

01:06:08.430 - 01:06:19.840

I felt—um, my dad was, you know, CACA Houston lodge president. He was the Grand Lodge President of the national organization.

01:06:19.950 - 01:06:34.380

My mother was the first lady—woman president. And I’ve been, you know, very involved, and I felt like it was almost my duty to do. And, you know, I wanted to support the mission, and, um,

01:06:35.220 - 01:06:48.860

that’s—that’s the reason. Is there any particular, um, project maybe, that happened during your time as president? Well when I was president, we had, um, a national convention here.

01:06:48.970 - 01:07:03.080

There’s, um—every other year, the CACA a biannual convention. And so, um, we had it here in Houston. So we had like 16 different lodges come during, um, the end of July

01:07:04.120 - 01:07:16.700

in 2011. And so, that was, you know, one of the major things. And then, um, another thing is, um, we were active in trying to get support from the—um,

01:07:17.890 - 01:07:34.050

both houses on the national level to do a resolution to regret—an expression of regret for the Chinese Exclusion Acts, which, you know, covered a span in history that—where they would no, um, allow Chinese immigrate.

01:07:35.270 - 01:07:50.520

So we had—you know, we contacted all of the congressmen from Texas, and it—it passed first in, you know, the House and then the Senate. So that was, you know, a really good thing.

01:07:50.520 - 01:08:01.080

You’ve been in Houston your whole life, and you even mentioned when you first were— when you first grew up, it was predominately white. And now Houston is considered the most diverse city in the country.

01:08:01.780 - 01:08:20.280

Have you—what are ways that you’ve seen this change happen? Um, just, you know, being—observing the make-up of any activity you go to. Um, it’s really

01:08:20.280 - 01:08:37.900

interesting. Growing up, you know, all of my friends were Caucasian. I didn’t really have any, um, you know, like Black friends until I really started working. Because when I was at UT, I don’t

01:08:38.060 - 01:08:56.270

remember any Black, uh, students at UT. Um, I think that, you know—that just the immigration of all groups—and it’s not just Asians, but you can go anywhere and

01:08:56.730 - 01:09:05.820

hear people speak German or Swedish. You know, like you said, it’s totally different. And I think back then, I would say, you

01:09:06.410 - 01:09:23.480

know, I would say 80% was Caucasian, and, you know, Hispanics. We did have, you know, um, Mexican people, and the Black people. But um, you know, Asians—I don’t—what—do you

01:09:23.480 - 01:09:34.290

know what the population is now in Houston? The percentage? For Asian people? Yeah. Uh, the Greater Houston area is something like 7%?

01:09:34.780 - 01:09:51.150

Oh really? Okay. I couldn’t tell you, but, um, it was—like when I was at UT, when I would walk on campus there, and I—I would literally—it would annoy me, but if there were like young

01:09:51.430 - 01:10:04.840

college Chinese boys, from—not from the US but overseas, they would—they would literally stop and stare and me. They would quit walking and just stare at me.

01:10:05.450 - 01:10:19.710

And I didn’t know what to do because they didn’t say anything. They would just look at me. So, it was just— you know, I think they were just surprised to see another, um, Asian aand bprobably female.

01:10:19.760 - 01:10:33.370

I don’t think there were that many, um, you know, students at the university-level that were coming over at that time that were female. So, um, it’s definitely changed.

01:10:34.970 - 01:10:51.250

Do you see this change as a good thing? Oh definitely. Um, one thing—another change that’s funny to me is, um, because when I grew up, every Chinese was ABC or, you know, pretty much.

01:10:51.870 - 01:11:02.090

My age group, they were born here, and their parents had the grocery stores and the restaurants. And so, I remember about three years ago, I, um, was involved with

01:11:03.730 - 01:11:17.740

the CACA youth club. And there was a teenager, and, um, he said, “Oh, your English is so good!” And I said, “Uh, yeah, I was born here.” And he said,

01:11:18.220 - 01:11:36.450

“Oh, well, you know, I’m so surprised because someone as old as you, they usually speak with an accent.” And I was just—I was kinda like, “Thanks a lot.” You know? But, because, um with, you know, all of the immigration now, uh,

01:11:38.310 - 01:11:52.230

I guess I’m a minority, you know, my age group to be—have been born here, there aren’t that many. How do you cope with that? Oh, it doesn’t bother me. I mean, you know, I don’t—I’m not offended.

01:11:52.230 - 01:12:05.420

I just find it humorous. I know some people probably would, but it doesn’t bother me. I thought it was funny. I mead I had never given it a second thought until he said that, um,

01:12:06.640 - 01:12:21.390

you know, from someone not, uh, you know—I don’t know. I guess I’d have to ask other people, you know, “Am I one of the oldest people you know that speak Texan?” Do

01:12:25.050 - 01:12:45.840

you think you are more Chinese or more American? Um, I would say I’m more American. For all the, um, community involvement that you have done among the, um, Chinese

01:12:45.890 - 01:13:01.680

people, some people may—may think that, um, you are too American to be representing the Chinese population here.

01:13:03.000 - 01:13:19.900

What would you say to that? Um, it’s interesting. Um, I—you know, because I don’t speak particularly Mandarin, which I think is the more, um, common language

01:13:21.280 - 01:13:36.960

here. Uh, you know, again, like I was just at a big banquet for the ambassador from Taiwan on Monday night at Ocean Palace. And so, um, he

01:13:36.960 - 01:13:50.280

went—actually, he went to the University of, uh, Texas as a student. This is Ambass— Ambassador King. But, you know, most—most of the program was in—in Mandarin.

01:13:50.350 - 01:14:06.290

But then they had someone who would speak English, and then all the speakers that spoke Mandarin also spoke in English. But, um, anyway, I’m kind of getting off track here. But, um, I’m a member of the Houston Taipei Society,

01:14:07.880 - 01:14:22.100

and they were looking for some people to chair. There’s the, um—there’s a friendship pagoda in Hermann Park, and it’s our mission now, we’re trying to either move it because the conservancy—the Houston

01:14:22.160 - 01:14:34.840

Conservancy wants to move the pavilion or get a new pavilion. And so, there’s a lot of work being done by the Houston-Taipei Society. And so, another board member said, “I would like to

01:14:34.840 - 01:14:53.680

nominate Linda Wu, because she is a bridge between the Houston community and, you know, the Taiwan community or Taipei.” And so, you know, I feel that, uh, being here for so long—

01:14:54.130 - 01:15:12.710

and, you know, not me, but the pioneers that my parents were—that, um, you know, I don’t feel like, uh—if people question that, that’s fine. You know? A big part

01:15:14.330 - 01:15:21.180

of—I think you said this was under the CACA. You worked with the Miss Chinatown Pageant? Right. Um, what do you think that means for Houston?

01:15:21.270 - 01:15:34.030

It’s so—it’s very long-running, and even our 2012 winner won the USA— Correct. —level competition. Um, again, it’s a tradition.

01:15:34.890 - 01:15:45.910

And I think that, um, it’s amazing. The—for me, people have asked me, “Well why do you”—some of the girls like, “Why do you do it? It’s volunteer work.”

01:15:46.800 - 01:16:02.020

Um, but I’m just amazed. It’s been a gift to me to see young women who are, um, you know, doing so many things, not—I don’t like to call it a beauty pageant. To me, it’s a scholarship

01:16:02.080 - 01:16:16.200

pageant. And they are able to, um, excel in many areas. You know, it’s talent. It’s intelligence. It’s—you know, what are your career goals? And, um, very often, the people, um, that have

01:16:16.840 - 01:16:28.340

been in the pageant, you know, they have become—you know, they’re attorneys. They’re medical doctors. They’re, um—go into politics. And it’s just something that you can only do for

01:16:28.550 - 01:16:41.020

a short time in your life. You know, maybe when you’re still in school or just getting out and working. And it’s a way they can network, and it is relevant. And it seems like more and more girls want to do it.

01:16:41.530 - 01:16:56.330

And I think with education being more, um, expensive, and, you know, we try to get, um, our scholarships higher. And the fundraisers are so loyal—not the fundraisers, the people that donate.

01:16:56.900 - 01:17:10.140

They always come back year after year. We very seldom—I mean with the economy downturn in the last few years, some people have dropped out, but, um, you know, more, you know, still do it no matter what.

01:17:10.140 - 01:17:22.460

And they just enjoy coming and supporting it. So it’s not difficult. It’s not something that we’re trying to hold together. It’s just—it is, you know, I think, a good thing.

01:17:22.620 - 01:17:38.960

Do you have any more questions before— maybe we can move on to some of the things you brought? Do you do—what do you do in your free time? Well, I’m not that organized, I would say.

01:17:39.740 - 01:17:56.130

Um, you know, I just was president of the CACA, and I just stepped down in January, but there’s, um—I’m still very involved. So that—we meet once a month and try to—there’s so many things going on in Houston so I keep active in

01:17:56.190 - 01:18:11.890

that. And just being on the boards of different things, there’s always something to do. Um, you know, I am—uh, we have, you know, free time, and my husband likes to fish. And we have a place in Galveston.

01:18:11.950 - 01:18:23.550

We try to go as often as we want. And I have two cats and a dog. And so, um, you know, just busy. I can’t—you know, I don’t have any regimen, but there’s

01:18:23.630 - 01:18:30.960

always something going on. Right now, I’m gearing up for this weekend. It’s our first meeting for the Miss Chinatown Pageant.

01:18:31.040 - 01:18:44.730

The girls are coming and we’re doing a little workshop seminar. So on August the third they’ll be all ready to compete and present their best foot forward, so I’m really looking forward to that.

01:18:47.320 - 01:18:55.940

Who is the, uh, most memoriable— Memorable? —contestant? Contestant. There are so many. I can’t say.

01:18:56.170 - 01:19:10.910

I mean, it—um, you know, we’ve had, you know, out—outstanding ones, most recently Steffi Hu. And, um, she was amazing because when she was, um ….

01:19:11.370 - 01:19:27.120

You know, she would—she could be, you know, waiting for, you know, whatever group activity’s going on. And, you know, we—she was being pulled in so many directions for two years because the first year was Miss Houston, and then she won the

01:19:27.120 - 01:19:37.990

national title, so everybody wanted Steffi as the Miss Chinatown USA. And so, you now, community things like fashion shows and all that. And while she’s waiting for—you know,

01:19:38.050 - 01:19:54.410

being—trying on whatever, you know, she would be with her books and studying, and missing two weeks of school to participate in California. I know she was working hard and keeping up her grades and being a presidential scholar.

01:19:55.720 - 01:20:06.300

And so I—and that’s just one person. I mean, they all juggle. They’re—one of our former Miss Chinatowns is getting her, um, MBA

01:20:06.890 - 01:20:20.700

in Houston at U of H now, but she’s working for Tesoro in San Antonio and commuting back and forth. And she’s offered to help us with this year’s pageant. And she’s active in the YLC.

01:20:20.910 - 01:20:33.610

Are you familiar with that? They do it at Rice every summer. The Youth Leadership Council, I believe. And, uh, you know, we have other girls that,

01:20:34.580 - 01:20:50.280

um—you know, they’re going to prestigious schools like Rice and Harvard and, uh, you know, Northwestern. And just—they’re—they’re very—you know, they’re the doers and leaders of

01:20:50.680 - 01:21:03.520

tomorrow. And, uh, I was really excited. Uh, one of your Rice, uh, alums …. I’m not a Facebook friend. I probably waste too much time on Facebook.

01:21:04.210 - 01:21:16.340

But she’s a friend of one of my former contestant friends, and she just got married. And she did the pageant when she was, uh, between Rice and going to medical school.

01:21:17.120 - 01:21:30.960

And I just saw where she got married a couple of weeks ago, so I was really excited because doing the pageant, you know, was something outside of her comfort zone. Nothing that she would ever think of doing. But, um, she did it, and, you know, you grow

01:21:31.040 - 01:21:46.550

from everything. I don’t know. Didn’t want to really name names, but since you know Steffi. Um, I know you worked in junior fashion, but I’m curious because you were a fashion buyer,

01:21:46.950 - 01:22:03.010

who are some of your favorite designers now? Um, you know, one that, um—who’s Asian and, uh, her name is Khanh Nguyen out of Dallas. And her fashions are so—the tailoring is

01:22:03.400 - 01:22:16.770

beautiful. I think it was about three years ago, and she did a show for the Asian Chamber, I believe. And I just noticed how beautiful they were. And so she’s an up-and-coming, uh, designer, and I know she sells

01:22:17.250 - 01:22:36.630

to Neiman Marcus. Um, you know, other than that, um, I’m not—you know, I don’t really follow it anymore, which is kind of …. You know, I don’t—I think right now, um, there’s a lot of

01:22:37.190 - 01:22:50.250

just different trends going on. It’s a lot different too. Okay then. Oh. Yeah. Would you—could we go see what you’ve brought for us?

01:22:50.250 - 01:23:02.960

Okay! Okay, sure. Um, do you mind if we record while you talk about it— Oh. —or would you like us to turn it off? Let’s—why don’t we turn it off, and then if you want to know about a certain thing, I can tell you because there’s—

01:23:04.360 - 01:23:19.740

Um, in the restaurants growing up, would the patrons use chopsticks? Um, no everyone was, uh, served with forks and knives, but they would be asked if they wanted chopsticks, just kind of a novelty because very few people knew how to use

01:23:20.310 - 01:23:20.420

them.