Linda Wu and Jane Gee oral history

Thank you. Thank you so much for allowing me to come and visit with you. Um today is October 10th, on Tuesday—uh Wednesday afternoon around 2 o’clock I think. Um and I just

would like to follow up and ask you more questions about your experience in Houston, first in the restaurant business, and then later uh maybe in real estate. And then your experience with

Ms. Chinatown Pageant. You know, also, um your role as president of CACA, and also president of the Houston Restaurant Women’s Auxiliary. And um in order for me to learn

more about the business and the social uh situation of Houston in the 1950's and 60's and 70's um so maybe if I can ask you when you first married Mr. Albert Gee and then um you know quit

Rice University and became a manager to help in his restaurants, what kind of um activities, what kind of jobs did you do in the restaurants? Mostly cashier and checking uh the restaurant had

uh uh car hops and uh we served food you know at the parking space around the restaurant so I'm usually um sitting there checking out their food, you know.

Um they—they pay for the food when they first take it out and then uh you know they collect from uh the people that they serve outside. So uh I was being cashier Oh, I see. I see. And which restaurant was this that you were cashiering for?

Uh… which restaurant? Oh uh the uh um uh… what's the name of that with— with the cashier—wi—with the um—

The Chinese Village? Huh? Was it Chinese village? Uncle Harry's Restaurant. It was called The Chinese Village Yeah. Great. And this was Harry uh Gee senior's restaurant?

Yes. Uh huh. I see. So at the time, your husband was working for Harry was was your hus— Well, no he's a partner. Oh, he's a partner? Uh huh. Okay, okay. Um, do you remember how much the restaurant made everyday?

Oh, you mean the receipts everyday? I—I right now, I have no idea. That's been a long time. Right. Was it a very uh very lucrative res—did the restaurant make money?

Yes, it was a success for business. Uh, and then upstairs uh we have a a a a room that the, uh you know, we can serve for uh people that want to party there You know, have a party there.

Wow. That's great. And uh I think Gordan Gee told me that at one point his restaurant and another restaurant owned by an American were like the best restaurants in Houston.

But your husband's restaurants were very very successful. Were they also like a gathering place for politicians and um city council members? Yeah, like the mayor of Houston and uh and and uh,

you know, people like that, people in—in um politics. Yeah. And they—they come around. You know. So how did that happen because there many Chinese restaurants in Houston? I mean, not many, but there are other Chinese restaurants in Houston at the

time. But there's not that many Chinese restaurants at that time. There um, when I first came to Houston from San Antonio to attend Rice, um there were only about three, three

restaurants, Chinese restaurants. Most of the Chinese people in those days, they were in the grocery business and uh there's quite a few people in the grocery business.

In fact, we were, you know, my husband and I were in the grocery business to begin with and he just uh, because of his uncle um and—he that's how come he went in to the restaurant business.

Oh, I see. But when you first left Rice and when you married your husband, you stopped studying at Rice, was your first job in the grocery store or was it in a restaurant? My job? When—when you left Rice and you married uh Mr.

Gee, did you go first into the grocery business or did you go into the restaurant business? Well, in—into the restaurant business. Oh, okay. Okay. And when did you have the grocery business?

I'm sorry? When did you have the grocery business? Oh, that was before, that was before we went into the restaurant business and um uh, in those days, most of the Chinese in Houston was in the

grocery business. And um there was a uh um gentleman from um, well he was a Chinese school teacher in San Antonio. And when he moved over here, he went into the grocery

business and he helped a lot of his relatives get started in the grocery business. That's how come we have quite a few grocery stores and we didn't have, at that time, we did not

have that many res— Chinese restaurants. Oh, I see. Um I think the man you're talking about C. Y. Chu? Yes.

Uh huh. Yes, and his brother Wanto, Wanto Chu? Yes, his brother is Wanto Chu. Right, right. So they helped. Um so did the so did the mayor come to your restaurant

because it was nearby the city hall or because the—he—the restaurant is well-known for good food? Do you know why? Well we have a lot of politicians come and then a lot of

po—policeman come. Uh, they can, when they come in, the—I'm just talking about the—the policeman. You know, the circulate, you know, in—in the community, and

uh when they come in for a cup of coffee, you know, to take a break, my husband never charge them. Oh, smart! So we have a, we got to know a lot of policemen. That's great.

Um so um so you were cashier for one restaurant? Or many restaurants? How— Now I was cashiering for—for the uh uh uh… when we had car hops That's

the only time I was cashiering. I see, I see. And then uh after that restaurant, did you stay home to take care of your daughters or did you also work um at other places.

Well, well after I had, my um you know, first, I only have two daughters. We have two daughters. Linda is the younger one, and my other daughter's been living in

California. And uh she is a—she is a retired high school science teacher. Yeah, and she had just come back from um a um uh a cruise. She went—she got to go to

Egypt. Wow, wow. That's nice to be on the cruise going to Egypt. I just heard from her this morning. She came back last night from a cruise.

She called me, tell me—told me all about it uh uh. She even got to go to Egypt. Wow, that's a long cruise to go from here to Egypt. So then

uh so you stayed home and took care of your daughter for a while? Or did you work at the same time in other restaurants? Well, not really uh I did not um work at

the um restaurants uh we first had uh two grocery stores. And um… see my husband knows the, the um restaurant business better than the grocery business.

So um anyway we have two… two sto—you know, two grocery stores to begin with. And then we sold one so there's just one grocery store. So he took off and then started the the

restaurants. I stayed behind and ran that—that uh grocery store for I don't know how long. Wow. And were—was Linda born then? Or not yet?

Well, when Linda was born, we were still at the gro—still at the grocery store And I had a maid, you know, come in everyday, and you know, help uh, you know, behind uh the the—the store, we lived upstairs of the store. That's where living

quarters are. So um. Oh wow. So then um so when uh so when you were running the grocery store and your husband was running the restaurant um were the—was the restaurant and the

grocery store in the same neighborhood? In the same neighborhood? No. No. No um our were in the Black section, the Black section of—of

Houston at the time because um there weren't that many grocery stores, you know, what we call mama and papa grocery stores um to service the Black people. And this is before seg—you

know, they were still uh segregated The Black people were still s—segregated. In fact, my husband help with the deseg—segregation. So um. That—that's amazing. I read about that.

That is so amazing. I tell that story everywhere. Yeah, so anyway, so um we sold the, of the two grocery stores, we sold one and got

into another one uh in the same area. And uh I ran the grocery store and my husband still have that restaurant blood in him. He had the uh experience with his uncle, Harry Gee

senior. So uh he went and up to uh, I think the first restaurant in on South Main, uh 6800 South Main. So he—he—he uh went over there and opened that restaurant.

That's his, you know, first restaurant. I think he had another restaurant, a small Chinese restaurant before I even met him. So I don't know anything about that one.

There's something called The Frying Pan? Huh? The Fry, the Frying, the Frying Pan. Yeah, yeah. He even had one before The Frying Pan.

Wow, wow. So—so the restaurant was in a commercial area? It wasn't in a White neighborhood or a Hispanic neigh—so the grocery store was in a Black neighborhood

um the restaurant was in a White neighborhood, or it was just on a commercial, commercial area? Well. It was across the street from the Shamrock Hilton in the Medical Center. Oh, oh okay. So it's a very busy, very busy area.

That’s when a lot of uh—The—there is a woman with a newspaper, The Houston Newspaper, and uh since we're close to the Shamrock Hotel, there's a lot of um name—

you, you know, well-known name people that go over there, that's in—in the movies or something. And um she would bring them over to um my husband's restaurant and uh, you know, he doesn't charge 'em because she writes up in the newspaper

that she brought so and so to, you know, Albert's restaurant. In the—there were the society columnists, Bill Roberts and Maxine Messenger.

I remember Maxine Messenger. Oh. And she's the one that got all these um movie stars to come. Bob Hope. Bob Hope was there so he—

Bob Hope. That's right. I need to take a picture of that. Yes, wow, wow, yeah. Oh and—and your dad is serving him? Right. And notice the cigarette.

Yeah, that's right. A—and we even had uh… a governor. Richard Nixon. Oh yeah, you just j—governor Connally, and Richard Nixon, president Nixon, and Pat Nixon, and his wife, Connally's wife.

Nelly, right? They invited us, you know, uh… out to uh their ranch or somewhere, and that's where the picture was taken. You know. In front of the fireplace.

That's wonderful. Did—did governor Connally know your husband because of the restaurant or? I'm sorry? Oh, did John Connally—governor Connally, did he come to your husband's restaurant? Yeah! Yeah, uh huh. Oh, he did? Oh, oh wonderful.

Yeah. Maxine, you know, the newspaper woman uh brough him. Yeah, and then he invited us to his ranch, you know, the governor has a ranch, not too far from Houston.

So we got to meet them and all that. He invited us and we went to his ranch and that's where that picture was taken. In front of the fireplace. Right, so I think Mr.

Gee is very um he's very smart, you know, in—in um not charging the the society columnist of the policeman. But—but the other, the other, I guess, the

other Chinese restaurant owners did not do that, or there just were not many? Well that's not that many Chinese restaurants at that time, yeah. Um… so I don't know uh whether they uh could, you know, do that or not.

Right, right. Whether they bribed people or not. But I also understand Wallace Gee had—was running the cafeteria in the police uh

headquarters. Uncle Wallace did the police cafeteria. Oh yeah, Wallace uh did Wallace run that? His brother, his brother. Yeah, yeah. So it's very, it's—it's—it's very um I mean, it's really a good

strategy to have police protection. See, he give out all those coffees to the policemen. These people so when they o—open the cafeteria, they want him to run it to, and I think his—he got his

brother to run it. Oh, I see. That's how I recall it, that it was my dad's connection and then my uncle ran it. Oh, so Albert, your dad, Wallace, his brother, and then is Gordon, is his brother?

Yes. Who is the oldest? My father. Oh your father is oldest, okay. So he basically set his brothers, helped his brothers along? Correct.

I see, because I didn't quite understand who—who came first. Right, no my father was the first, he came by himself. It's— Wha— Harry Gee senior is the person who helped him when he came. And then when your dad got set up, he brought his brothers over?

Or they came together? No, papa came first, right? After they went back to China, when—when papa's father died. And then, your great-grandma, no your gra—your grandmother had to go back to China. I remember that. And then, my dad came alone.

No, the mother sent, see there's three boy in the family, and their mother had to go back to China because there's no way since her husband died, there's no way she can make a living. I think they were living in New Orleans at the time.

So she had to take the the—the—the boys, the three boys to uh back to China, because they have a house and some land there. So that's how come they went back.

And then she sent them back one by one. You know, Albert came back first a—and Wallace a—and Gordon. Oh so Wallace came second and then Gordon came third, right? They came one by one.

The brother came one at a time. Yeah, yeah. One at a time. Wow, yeah, that's really um and then so by the time Wallace came, you dad was already in

business or? Um… was… when ha—when Uncle Wallace came, was papa already an adult or was he still a young boy?

Because I believe my father came over at 11 years old. So when did Uncle Wallace come? I don't know but when he came, he didn't right away, he wasn't

here in Houston. He was in Chicago. Wallace? Yeah. Okay, so he didn't.

I—I—I don't think my father um. I think he was in San Francisco at first when he came. And then um his uncle Harry Gee senior sent for him to come to Houston,

you know, to—to help him with the restaurant business. This is your father? I think so. So where—who did he live with in San Francisco? Who did— Uh I think he had uh he had a uh uh I

think his father's brother, his uncle. He lived with his uncle. Yeah. And then how old was he when he moved to Houston? Well I… I don't know because I'm from San Antonio.

And now, I don't know how he wasn't here. Your mom didn't meet your dad until they were grown up. The way I met you da— She didn't care.

The way I met your father I'll tell you. He was already working for his uncle's restaurant. And then my brother, you know, the reason we came to Houston to visit every summer, I have an older sister that is married

and living here. And the older, my older sister is married to Ed Chen's um… Oh that's Ed Chen's mom—uh dau—our president Ed Chen's mom, right? Right. So that's how, you know, we got here, and uh, anyway uh uh, I met him at the, at the

restaurant that his uncle, uh uncle um uh… Harry was ru—was running. So uh we went, you know, since we come here every summer to visit our sister,

being that she's married to Eddie Chen's uh uh… Right. Mom—uh uh father. Father, right? Right? So uh anyway so that's how Albert and I met.

Because you know, we went into the restaurant and he was there. I didn't know him you know. Alright, okay. So I think what—what as I understand it then, so you all

eloped. She dropped out of school. Eloped? Literally eloped? She eloped, she elop—yes she did not go home to San Antonio for nine months because her

father was furious, because she dropped out of school. He wanted me to, you know, I—I didn't, when I first applied to go to Rice, the registrar wrote me a letter, and said that you—you have good grades but you don't have enough uh

uh uh science courses. But if I go to junior college first and uh take some uh, you know, science

courses like Chemistry and um whatever else I took. I did take, you know, two science courses and then he said that when you get through junior college, you send your application again,

again, and let us know what kind of grades you made. And that's how I got into Rice. Wow, you must have been a very good student to get into Rice. So after, after you and papa eloped,

then you got a grocery store, your own grocery store, is that your first, how you started your lives together with the grocery store? Yeah, yeah. Well that's because my father is uh is in the grocery

business. And I know the grocery business. I don't know anything about the restaurant business. I have a picture of that store. I found it yesterday, but I'll um try to find it

again, but was that so— I think my hearing aid went out. I'll have to put a new battery in. That's how come I can't hear.

Okay, do you want to—you want me to bring you a battery? Do you want me to bring you a battery? Well, do you know where it is?

It's in your vanity uh your vanity. Is it in your bathroom? I'll get it. It's—it's on—it's on the she—you have to open the bottom part. Okay. How wonderful.

You know, my hearing is—is not good. So uh I have to wear hearing aid. And then my battery, I said, how come I can't hear so good and then

I kind of take this hearing aid out and it and it then I realized this battery had gone out. So I hope I can get a new battery and then I can hear with it.

It's no fun being old. Oh, well you look great. You look really good. Thank you. Yeah, I'm over 90.

You are! Oh my goodness. I thought you were maybe 70 something. Wonderful. But don't tell anybody. No, I won't tell anybody, but it's on the tape now.

I'm 91. Oh wow. Then you're the same age as my mother-in-law. I think my mother-in-law is also 91. Wow.

Hey would y'all, would ya'll like some uh, Letty can make us some tea. Would you like some tea or coffee? Um, water, water would be fine, thank you. Yeah, I just…

How about some tea or coffee? Uh well—I'll have some water, would be good. Just water, thank you. Yeah, water is fine. Thank you. I

saw this itty bitty picture yesterday. I wonder… Letty did you see a little picture about this big and it was of a grocery store and my mom holding Janita maybe.

Okay. No I—I thought I'd left it but um it's fi—oh here it is. Here it is. And it's so funny because— This is the first grocery store. Oh, that's Janita Be—because it, the name of it was Serve 4 but look at that.

Yeah, it—on purpose? So you look in the mirror, it's it's uh… No! I don't know why it's backwards. Maybe the negative was backwards. Oh, you're right. The negative must have been neg—negative.

Oh, that's such a pretty picture. What a handsome couple, your mom and your dad. That's my sister. Yeah, Janita. The one whose uh went to Egypt.

Right. Mom, that's Serve 4. Cer—oh so that's the name is Serve 4 Food Market. Right. Oh my goodness. So, so she didn't go back to San Antonio for nine months? Right, she didn't go home because her father was so mad.

But then my mom said that when they did go back together and my father met his father-in-law. that he charmed my grandfather so he wasn't mad anymore. Right? You said that

your father wasn't mad at papa when when y'all when back to San Antonio. No. It took me—I don't know how many months before I dare go back to San Antonio. Because, you know, my father had wanted me to be an M. D.

Yes, pre-med. Yeah so uh that was a disappointment to him that I didn't finish my education. So uh I don't—I did not dare go back there to visit. Were you, were you the oldest?

Were you the oldest uh child of your family? No, no, no. I'm one of seven. Yeah. I'm the first. Let's see, my

oldest uh sister is Ed Chen's mother. Oh, okay. Right, right. Yeah. And then um then I have an older brother, Richard, Richard Eng. And— and uh I'm after him.

I think I'm the third child. Yeah. I'm the seventh. So did all your other brothers and sister, did they finish college? Did your father put everybody through?

Um, my um um… my youngest brother uh is a lawyer and he was um… um here in wha— what's it called? City of Houston municipal court judge.

Yeah. Yeah. Sam Eng. E-N-G. Sam, Sam Eng. I think, I think Harry said he was the first Chinese American lawyer in Houston.

Right? Uh, I don't think he was but I think he was the first judge. Oh, judge. Okay, okay. Yes, because uh… Because Harry mentioned him in an interview. Yeah. I see.

Was Uncle Sam the first Chinese attorney that you know of? I don't know if he was the first or not. I—I don't think he was but uh I do know he was the first judge and he was appointed by

Mayor Louis Welch. Okay. Wow. So then um so after you got married and then you managed restaurants, your husband's business just prospered, right? He just had one restaurant after

another after another. Right? And then uh so when did you become involved in the Houston Restaurant Association? Well… I don't know.

They—they have a women's asso—uh, you know, uh… restaurant association for women's uh… so uh I—I just join it. I don't know exactly when. And then I did

service uh… uh the chair one time, you know, for the Houston uh… uh Women's, you know, Restaurant Association. And what what uh what activities did you— Oh, sorry.

Let me turn that off. I apologize. Um what activities did you um do as the, a member of the Women's Auxiliary. Well, I think the most um… uh

significant uh thing that uh we did was to uh help uh, you know, uh in those days, Black people cannot go into uh, you know, uh White or Chinese

restaurant. They're segregated, you know. They couldn't even go, go inside to eat, you know, they have to, they have their own restaurants. You know, they're—they're some

Black people that uh own restaurants and they can only go to that. So my husband really helped seg—uh the desegregation when he was president of the Houston

Restaurant Association and uh he got to be president at one time of the Houston Restaurant Association. And so he—he helped getting the uh getting it uh desegregated.

That's the main thing that he had helped, you know. That—that is very important. Um, how—how did he do it? Did he just allow the Black people to come into his restaurant to have meals first or how did he… how

did he get everybody— I don't really know. I don't really know how he did it but uh that is his uh main contribution as being president of the restaurant association. He was responsible for, for the desegregation.

He got all the uh I think the reason, the way he got it was uh, he had convinced the majority members of the Houston Restaurant Association to let the uh Black people come it.

I don't know how he did it but uh… And maybe because he was friends with the council members, with the mayor, with the police, maybe that helped also? I, excuse me, I'm sorry for interrupting.

I remembered one of my dad's very good friends was the publisher of the Forward Times. Remember, Julius um I forgot it. Ju—yeah. Julius um what is his last name?

I don't, he's a Black guy. He—he right. He was um very, he was like a leader within the Black community. I want— He has a newspaper.

Forward Times. And I remember during that time he would, Julius Carter. I think it was Julius Carter. And I remember they had a very good line of

communication where they, you know, he networked within the Black community to kind of work out, you know, letting it happen, you know, speaking to the community of Black people,

and my dad being in the restaurant association um, you know, that was the thing of the integration of the restaurants was a really big thing. Yeah. And I—I was always amused with the fact that it takes a Chinese person to solve an

issue between the Black and the White. Right. So I—I do remember that and I think among a lot of this, you know, this scrapbooks, I do have some letters, and maybe not letters but

some dialogue about this situation. Look at that. How pretty. Oh wow. Well if you can find the letter, we would love to have a copy. We just make a copy of it.

Thank you. Thank you so much, the water. That's so pretty. Yeah, pretty. So, so then, and then when did you become president of CACA?

The ju—uh the citizen—the Chinese American Citizen's Alliance. I know that, were you the first woman president? Yes, I was the first woman president.

How—how did you get elected to be CACA president? How did I get to be the first woman president? There's so many firsts in your parents— I think my husband has something to do with it.

No. Well. Because mom, papa passed away in 1978 and the Women's Auxiliary, well actually she was a president of the CACA Auxiliary first, but as far as uh I think it was like uh…

I think it was in here, right? Right, when she was but I, there was a point in time that we can see, I don't have off the top of my head, where the Auxiliary was disbanded and women could

be members of the mens. See this was a, a fraternal organization. Here's a picture of your mom and dad. Right, so okay so she was 1983.

After your father passed away. After my dad passed away. Oh thank you wow. Great food. Thank you. So this is a picture of you in

CACA? Yeah. I have the uh I have a big picture. Of that? So pretty. So your mom became president after your father passed away. Yeah. So he didn't have, he did not uh help you do that

but I will say um that my mother was always helpful of my father in all of this because like whenever um it was fu—it's funny humor, it was humorous to me because my dad spent so much time with

CACA and then my mother was the one that rather facilitated like helped him write his speeches and she was always the one in the background because women weren't allowed.

And so when it—they were all uh into one, you know, organization, it was very easy for her to be the president because she was been— She's been doing this. Right.

Exactly. Um, do you remember what you did as president as CACA? What kind of ac—um… Oh, it's been so long ago. I don't know.

I don't know. What does CACA do normally? What are some of the activities that CACA uh engages in? Well, we have a Miss Chinatown Houston.

I think that is the major one. b: But I think the history started again in the very beginning it was to advocate for the Chinese in terms of um voter registration.

And also the mom and pop uh grocery stores, they needed to get their health, that was a really big thing. Remember when the grocers and the grocery people, they needed to get their health shots or health cards.

Mom? I remember that was a big drive. You all helped with the health, the health cards for the businesses. So the businesses had to have health cards in order to operate?

So the owners had to get inoculation, or vaccination? Uh, I'm not sure. I just remember the health department, the businesses— Well, the come around once a month to—to check on the business, on the restaurants, you talkin' about?

Grocery store? And grocery stores. I remember as a child that you all helped the businesses get their health cards or health… Well, it is the people that work in the restaurant, you know, like the

cooks and people that— that uh cook the food, uh they have to get health cards uh, you know, uh so that uh they know uh that nobody with TB or something would cook, you know, the

food for people. So wha—didn't CACA help like get the people there from the Health Department to make sure they were all… Well, I don't know.

I—I don't remember about that. But they—they did a lot of the grassroots kinds of things to help in the beginning and—. Okay, and how does that work with the Church? I thought the Chinese Baptist Church also

did a lot of this helping um grocery stores. Well, it was the same community really. I—I think back then the Chinese Baptist Church was the only Chinese

church. So everyone— Was smaller maybe, not as big as it later became. Was CACA more active earlier, then the church extended and took over some CACA activities or it’s just…

No, the Church was there first. And then CACA was started here in 1954. Okay, and the church began in the 40's or even earlier? Do you remember when Travis started the Chinese

Baptist Church? Well, I remember the uh uh… we had met at, at a Baptist Church downtown Houston. It was the first Baptist Church. Yeah, it was in the basement when they began.

Yeah, the story. Yeah, the Chinese went over there uh to attend Church to begin with and then we branched out and have our own church later. Right. Right so then, so from, so

once you became, were you involved with Miss Chinatown Pageant before you were president of CACA? Yes, she was because… you were president 1983 and the pageant

started actually before 1971 but that's kind of the year we use as Miss Chinatown and um… I don't remember, I don't think my mother was the chair until about roughly and from that point, she…

It was for 15 year, if I remember. I think I chaired it for 15 years. Yeah, I thought that's what interviews said. And then I got Linda in it.

I roped her in so I can retire. And so now you're the chairman? Right. Now I'm about, I would, I… Well, one of the Miss Chinatown is a Rice graduate, or a Rice student.

Yes. Right now. Right now. She—at the RUAAA meeting uh several weeks ago, at the Rice University Asian Alum Association, she was the emcee. Very very bright girl and beautiful.

We've had um ano—our other Rice student, we have more than one that has won but another Miss Chinatown Houston Rice graduate also won Miss Chinatown USA um Melissa

Yeh. So Rice has a good record. Steffi. We saw her video… of dancing and she was amazing. What they can do, these girls are Yeah, yeah. And did she win something?

She won the USA Right. She's the first one that won the Miss USA, isn't she? No. Evelyn Ding was the first one. We're talking—Evelyn Ding. Evelyn Ding.

From Houston? Yes. Oh, okay. And then we had— Didn't she become a doctor? Yes. She is. Wow. Okay, I had to run her down.

I wanted her to enter the Miss Chinatown Houston pageant competition. And uh she was going to at this time, I think she was at uh Austin, going to college there.

And I, I kept on uh… I kept on after her and she… Oh uh… Lilly and Willy… Foster. Oh! That's Lilly Foster? You're kidding. That doesn't look like Lilly now.

Oh wow. And this is Evelyn Ding. And that's her brother, Willy? No. Willy Wang. The artist—he does the sculptures from China. Like in uh the

Methodist Hospital the Jesus. He's in , he's, oh back here. Oh, I didn't know that. Oh my goodness. Oh Lilly looks so different.

You know, these things happened so long ago. At my age, that's I'm lucky, I'm lucky that I remember anything. You have a great memory.

So uh can you, can you tell me a little bit more about Miss Chinatown pageant, and uh what is involved and what you did? Oh I think Linda can give you more about that. Okay. I would love, either one of you tell me, that would be great because we

don't know very much at all about, and the archive would appreciate a little explanation. Um, it started out, in the old days with the community, city-wide community picnic, and the girls were just asked I think at that time to um… like

model. And then they, I don't think they had a talent, and there was no swimsuit, but it was kind of a way to get the youth out. And I think I—I don't know remember who were judges or anything, it was very informal.

And then like in the uh… as I recall there was a couple that came from California named Honey and H.K. Wong. Is that right, Mom?

Yeah And they were part of the Miss Chinatown USA pageant. And they came to different cities trying to promote their pageant, the national pageant. They needed to get contestants from other

cities. So they came to Houston and um talked to my parents and CACA asking if they would sponsor like a, a contestant to make it a national event. So that's how it began and um before the

actual pageant, the community sent out different girls to participate. I remember, we sent out a girl named Darlene Ming, remember? And so uh my mom was always kind of very community-minded and wanted to help do that, so it was

informal. And then um like I said, we had it at Sylvan Beach where the picnic was. And then in the early, or the late 60's early 70's, and then it became more formalized, and at the time, my mother

really got involved I think the chair was like rotated among the auxiliary members, the CACA Auxiliary members, and there was uh no continuity. So the president of CACA at the time, I believe it was Gordon

Quan's father, Bill Quan, asked my mother, "Jane, would you please chair it?" And my mom said, "I will, if I can do it like I would like to do it." And I don't have anyone to answer to and it's hers to do,

as she, as she please, on her terms. So— that's how she did it for 15 years. Wow. I'll get it.

How wonderful. I'm was a pretty tough cookie in those days. When you say you want to run it the way you want to run it, what—what was different from the way it was run before?

In the pageant? Yeah, because you say I'll do it on my own terms. What was, what was different before you took over as chairman? I'm not sure I am understanding you.

Oh, well um when you took over to be the chairman of the pageant, um did you do things differently from before, when the other people chaired it? Well… probably.

I, you know, so long ago, I don't know but uh… I was, you know, I was not uh experienced in it either so uh I just did it the way I thought it should be done, whatever it was.

How did she know how to conduct one? Or how different was it from—because she said she does it her way. So how different was it from before she took over? Did she instill more system or…?

Well I think, you know, with my mother's context, um she… I don't know how she, I'm trying to think back but Cookie Joe was her director and Cookie um from small—as small child

was always into dancing and singing and all of that. So she knew that Cookie had the experience to train the contestants. Well she has a dance studio.

Actually, no I don't even know how you started it because Cookie was the second Miss Chinatown so she couldn't have started it with you. So I don't know how that started, maybe maybe you didn't start it until after Cookie was Miss Chinatown,

you know, being the chair. We'd have—I'd have to kind of piece it together. Anyway, she was the um… Cookie was the one that, who helped train some of the girls that—that applied to be uh uh a contestant. Right. So a good partnership with Cookie Joe and my mother.

Oh, I see. Did the girls apply or did you mom have to go out and find contestants? Mom, how did you find contestants? Oh, Chinese newspaper.

There's some Chinese, you know, newspapers and um we know somebody from there and um they write it up that uh that there's a pageant and for the girls, you know, gave some information about what the

requirements are and where to apply and all that kind of stuff. The Chinese newspaper helped. I see, I see. And— I forgot what the name of the Chinese newspaper was.

Southern Chinese, well no. It was uh Southwest Chinese Journal, I believe it was Gene and Hedy Lee. Oh, Gene's paper. Oh, wow. And so there was a scholarship as uh a prize for

the girl? Is that—in the very beginning? Oh yeah. Uh huh. Okay. So that's the first, it's always, you've always had scholarship for the, for the winner? And also they were able to go out to California with a two week, two week

paid expense trip. You know, we paid for their expense to go up to California to represent Houston. I see. And you were the chairman, were you also the judge of the pageant?

Oh, yeah yeah we uh uh… we invite people, you know, certain people to be judges and uh they're not all, you know, not all Chinese judges, some, you know,

mixed group. We have some Chinese and some white, you know, people to be judges. Right, right, right. Um, and so were you also a contestant? Or you couldn't

because your mom was involved? No. I was married. No I I—that was um… funny as it is, she— my mother, I said that I was, I forgot what she said, I was too

shy. Oh, or—or she, right? But I… some of my uh contemporaries before it was really organized, I think they participated at the picnic but I uh

no. But when, when my mother was chair, I um was already married. Well I gave you dancing lessons when you were, when you were growing, when you were still very young.

And uh you like your lessons, but you know, my older daughter Janita, I—I tried to get her to take dance lessons like Linda did, and she wouldn't, she wouldn't do it. She's a tomboy.

So, so you mentioned a picnic, a city-wide picnic. Is that a CACA function? Yes. And today um the Gee family and the CACA have

their picnic together. Together. Okay, okay. I read in some of the minutes of the Gee Association that uh that it was kind of, sometimes the picnic, people don't have time to organize or it's better to

link up or something. Apparently, there was discussion about that. Right, right. Okay, okay. So then so after Linda took over, did you still, did you stay involved in the

pageant after Linda took over? Well, some my my involvement got a lot easier to handle. Okay. Well my mother… because of all of her long-time

contacts in the community, she really uh the pageant would not have been able to go on as it is. I mean, she laid the groundwork, she um is to me the, you know, the Miss Chinatown Houston.

She's like the representative, and a lot of our sponsors go back to when she was chair and has established those, you know, long ties. Well, I—I think I—I did it for 15 years and then

you took over and I think you—you done it for more than 15 years. But—but she, but she does, but she also would, up until this year, she had her list of

sponsors and advertisers that she would call, and, you know, as soon as they hear her voice, they know. Right, they know. We will participate. Yes, right.

Wow. So uh can I ask how—how much, how much this whole event costs or how many sponsorships do you…? Uh well, you know, it's—we don't get corporate sponsors. They're very um I'm not sure I

have. Do you have this year's pageant book with Stephie Hu on the cover? I think I have a, I think I might have an issue in my bedroom. Okay, um well I can tell you the prizes are like um for the first top prize, she gets a um

2000 dollar entry to the Miss Chinatown USA pageant, and there the prize is 10,000 dollars, and then they get uh dollar cash scholarship from the CACA. And then one thing

that is very unique, that's the first place, second place I believe is um cash is and then the, everyone gets 500 dollars just for participating. And we're the only pageant that I

know of that there is no entry fee and they ki—we give them a lot of things um like they don't have to buy anything like their swimsuits or their shoes. The only thing they have to buy are their

uh whatever they use for their talent, you know, like if they're dancing, it's whatever costume, or if they're playing and instrument or singing, it's usually some formal type of gown. But that's something, you know, that they usually have or want to buy special occasion

dress. And also the Chinese formal gown, they usually have those custom made or they can rent them. And they pay for those themselves? Yes. Okay, okay. Yeah, Steffi was wearing a Chinese gown at Rice the other day.

Yes, right right. And a lot of the girls um they if it—they enter for different reasons, some want just to have the experience because it is sort of a Houston tradition now that we've had it for 43 years.

And um they make a lot of contacts and, you know, we encourage them all to be very, you know, competitive and take it, because you only get as much out of it as you put in and they get training as far as um, you know, uh

nutrition and hair and make up and uh… etiquette and then, you know, they're introduced to a lot of people. So, but in spite of that we want everyone to feel like, you know, whatever they—they grow a lot during six

weeks of training. And then they have the pageant but um what I was going to say is that we encourage them to do the best they can but some some of the girls are very competitive and uh, you know, this is uh very important to them and winning is

very important. And then some just want the experience. So you have different, you know, motivations. I see. Wow. So um so what is the budget for the whole pro—whole project. Um well you know, we you know, we haven't really broken it down between

scholarships and everything. The pageant had given, you know, over probably 150,000 dollars in prizes. Per year? No. Not per year.

Just over the term. That's a loose thing because one time I was trying to figure it up, you know, for solicitation of scholarships and um but in— including, you know, prizes and cash scholarships um

right now, we haven't done our balance. We're still collecting from the last pageant this summer. So thi—so everyone's a volunteer? All the people are volunteers? Right, right. Well we do um like my time is all

volunteer but we do give people like um like studio rental, you know, we have expenses. And then for trainer, we do give them like a token amount on the, you know, if it were the market value would

be what it is. So everyone is a member of CACA and they volunteer their time. Wow, that's amazing. So you have chaired it for 20 plus years, right? I think it's been in the so I don't think it's been 20 years.

What's that? I don't remember when I started chairing it. Maybe like in the nine—1990's, mid to late 1990's. Do you remember when you no longer became chair, she became the

honorary chair. Yeah. Well I—I did the I—I did the um chair for 15 years. I remember that. And then you took over.

Okay. So uh so if you— And then you're still doing it so I don't know how long you've been, you've been doing it more than I have. I—I don't know. I'll have to follow up with an email.

It—time flies when you're having fun. Right. So has the pageant grown bigger and bigger? It has. Yeah. I was trying to find, you know, some of these old

pageants, but they're—they're not as, it's not like the beginning but like this one. I'll take a picture. Oh wait, yeah uh like this one was '79. Oh in fact, pageant and picnic.

And uh… so… Gee's restaurant of course. And your mom—oh that's right. I remember you telling me about your real estate company too and your mom. Okay well I—oh this is before I was involved.

Because I was a judge here, and so Cookie Joe and my husband Ted were emcees. Right. I think this must have been, I think this is the first year, or one of the first years. Right.

This is a history in itself. I mean this is like… um… that's another whole subject. Somebody can write a paper about, that's really. Have you tracked all the girls when they, you had the

pageant? Yes. If we can, if I can find that, in fact this is um Hedy and Gene Lee's daughter. Oh! Judy? No. This is Sandy. Okay, okay.

And then, see Bobo Lang Theater, First Market. And the weights too, the height and weights. Yeah. We don't do that. You don't do that anymore. Education.

They're all beautiful girls. I'll take a picture of the cover as well. Wonderful… that's

great. So the girls, so you keep track of the… We had a 40th anniversary and so um Facebook came in really handy. I was searching for

people and uh… the—let's see like uh… picnic, it used to be at the Polish Hall. Huh. Okay, master . So the girls who um compete even now, are

they mainly children who grew up here? Or are they foreign students even? They're not foreign students but they, they weren't even prizes in here, I thought there would be um no they first wave were definitely from

within the community and then um then the next wave so to speak, were the Taiwanese, the people—the girls from Taiwan. Whose parents were still in Taiwan? No, they they were new.

Right. Okay, okay. Um second generation and then now it's the—we have the Chinese. Aha. Meaning the mainland Chinese who also mi—immigrated here. Right, Their parents have moved here.

Because they have to be a permanent resident. They cannot be a student. Run. Right. Wow. So it has grown.

So how many contestants do you have now. We still just—we limit it to ten, we don't want, but we usually have like eight. Last year, I think we had seven. And how many applied to be—

Um, well we really try to take as many as we can, you know, that's really interesting because um some years like we'll have maybe, you know, twelve we—or more and we only want ten, and some years we get a lot of interest.

The girls today, it's not like, they have so many other opportunities like a lot of them spend the summer overseas so we really don't have that many more applying. We do have our criteria, so we tell them.

I see. It's a great opportunity somebody knows about this. Right. We feel like it is. Don’t—don't read your half of um thing here uh last um the—the girls… Did you put it up in the pageant?

I think it's inside this door. Oh, she's here? A poster. A poster? Oh! My mom has a collection. Oh wow. And you can see how the

sponsors are. Oh oh gold sponsors. I see. They—they're all individuals. Right. See, they're not— Corporate. Oh no these are… Well, those are… but they're not what I'm saying is we don't have

like, like this is the Miss Chinatown USA and they're mainly um in other words we don't get like uh… Uh uh… big. Like yeah like the big corporate sponsors and uh it—it's it's mainly

just to— I think longtime sponsors of your… pageant. That's great. Amazing. Thank you for sharing. So, I guess, I don't want to tire you out but I have, I'd like to ask a little bit more

about the real estate company that you founded. Um after your husband passed away, you sold the restaurants and then you went into real estate. Can you talk a little bit more about that?

Um, did—when did you get your license to…? Yeah well I had to go to real estate, take a course in real estate school before I could get my license. So I that um because I didn't, you know, I didn't want to

um… um be tied down to a business, you know, like a restaurant or a grocery store. It'd be there all the time. So um that's how come I thought about real estate.

I read something about the real estate and it kind of intrigued me and uh so I found a real estate school to go to and to get my license and uh I didn't, you know, I just work by myself, you know,

even though I could hire, you know, other agents but I—I just wanted to um uh work by myself and—and uh I don't have that much responsibility. I can more or less, you know, do my own

schedule. Right, right. I think Linda you, didn't you get a real estate license too? I talk her into getting a real estate license but I don't think Linda would've liked it.

Did—did you ever worked in it? Mhm. No I—I worked for uh cr—Prudential Texas, you know, but I don't know— Yeah, I told you that after you got through real estate school.

I said, I said , "you can't learn to much from me because I'm a beginner." I told her go work for, you know, uh uh real estate agency and you did that for a while. So, so how many years did you uh run your real estate company?

How many what? Years. How many years did you…? I really don't remember. Well it—it your—your she's very modest actually because my dad

passed away in '78 and I think you started real estate at the time my father passed away um she and he had a restaurant in the Lamar Town, you know, off of, you know where—

I used to work for Lamar Tower. Oh, you did? But that was '86. Well. My father-in-law bought us some units there in '79 when it turned condo.

Oh okay. Well, uh they, that was right after my dad died because was—there was probably still a Chinese restaurant in there. No, there was no restaurant by the time we got there.

Oh really? Okay well when my dad had it was Albert Gee's Cuisine of China. In fact, I have another, I have a card around here somewhere. But he um ran his

restaurant inside Lamar Tower and uh when he passed away, my mother ran it a little longer and sold it to David. Remember, who bought, who bought Lamar Tower restaurant?

It was a David somebody. I don't remember but I sold it to a Chinese um man. Man. David. And um… here, look at the, well, can

you see? Oh yeah. Lamar Tower. Ground floor! By the time we got to Lamar Tower, they were remodeling. I think they must have just remodeled the restaurant and we didn't—we

never saw your restaurant. My mother-in-law would have loved to have a Chinese restaurant. But was it Chine—it was in Chinese? Yes. Here. In fact, here it is. Here. We still have a unit um we still a unit.

Oh wow. This is amazing. Can we keep this card? Yeah, I have more than one. Okay, I'll just keep that because uh we lived at Lamar Tower, I mean we bought the units and then we went back to Taiwan.

We came back in '86 and then lived in Lamar Tower for four years until we built, we built the house. Oh wow. Maxine Messenger lived there. Yes, yes. We see her in the elevators a lot.

Yeah. But I didn't know the connection. Wow, what a small world. So um okay so my dad passed away, my mom had to keep it up, and then she, and then she did the real estate

and did quite a bit of commercial real estate and uh and some residential. But what I admired her most for is that again not only did she do uh

selling of real estate but she also managed like she had— The restaurant as well. No. Like she had clients from overseas and then they wanted to come and, you know, the U. S.

had such good prices compared to, you know, like I remember, she had a couple of Japanese clients, and so she was in charge of renting out their homes and taking care of it while they were overseas and she took care

of, you know, taking care of the rent, taking of, you know, all of the problems that come with homes and renting them and refurbishing them and paying their taxes and so she did a lot of real estate management too.

So is she was very successful for sure. You—your business was very successful. Your real estate business? Yeah. I think she did well. Thank you. Yeah… did you enjoy the business?

I like real estate. I liked it and um… I sell, you know, I sell uh houses, you know, some people there, some Japanese man that bought a house, a house through, you know, that I uh uh I

sold and um when he went back to Japan he asked me to um um to rent it out for him because he might come back. He never did come back so I eventually sold it for him. But that was years— But that's a house, a house close to your house.

Right and I think that probably was over uh, you probably managed the those for over 20 years, I think. I was a long time I don't know. I managed it for long time because he said he might come back

and then uh he did and then I call him one time and when he still in Japan as him uh and told him that uh um I could sell this house if uh because uh I'm—I'm going to retire.

Because she wanted to sell it. But and that, you had more than one Japanese client, you had that um One of that, restaurants.

Yeah the Fuji, I forgot his name, Nishio. And then you also had the Daido res—the Dido people. Yeah, they still there. Yeah. Oh, the Daido grocery store?

Mhm. Yeah. Oh, okay okay. But she also, she—well she leased that whole shopping center. She did a lot of—you did commercial leasing too. I remember you releasing like pilgrims,

cleaners, and all kinds of things. So did you, did you invest in real estate? I mean, did you, besides just did she also buy shopping centers and sell them?

She didn't move to that? No. You never bought any? I don't think. She's been very conservative. Oh, okay. Yeah because I think she would be very successful if she bought. She— I bought this house.

Yeah, she's been very conservative. How—how did you get your customers? How, how do they know to come to you to to buy a house? Well sometimes I have a, I had a lot of Chinese

clients. They buy uh commercial property or they—they're usually in the uh grocery business but they have money you know, because they've been in business for long time and they have money

and they want to buy some uh rental property, you know, for them, you know, to have another income like that. So uh I've have—I have—I have quite a few Chinese clients. So they're, so they're contacts for your grocery store and also

maybe from your restaurant? Do you know people and they would come to you saying can you help me buy a property. I see. And then, word of mouth?

And then my brother, my oldest brother, he's in insurance business, and he passed away already but his son inherited but he used to go around to all the Chinese grocery

stores so uh anyway he uh that way uh he let people know that uh if they ever want to buy any real estate, you know, that they could call me and I would help them. So I—I get business like that too.

Right. That that's Diana Chow's dad that she's talking about. Who's that? He was the insurance, Richard Eng. Oh. That's her that's her oldest brother. Is that her oldest brother in the family?

Right. Her oldest brother. Yes. So Diana is a Eng but of course she married her husband is it Nor—uh uh. Clement. Clement. Right and that's a Chow. I see, okay okay. Yeah, I'm

getting very clear now, all the lines. Yeah, right so Diana and I are first cousins. Yeah, that's right. This I just unfolded it and you might, this is the article about

that. About I saw that, it's about the the whole restaurant. Right. And then, this was the— This is a very good picture of your dad. It's—it just—and this was served at Lamar Tower?

Mhm. Did—did you ever go there? Yeah. But because uh at that time I was a buyer at my—my—my job You were at Joske's. I was at Joske’s and… I saw the review.

This is not. Yeah. No this part is that. Oh yeah, so you were a buyer at Joske's and that's right near the uh Lamar Tower. Yeah, we used to come

by. Did you have, did you ever work with your dad in the restaurants? I I did as a child, I worked at the takeout place. We lived in Bellaire, and so on weekends I— What did you do? I—I it was fun.

I would, it was all pretty much takeout so we—I remember like we'd get the phone, order, some people would come in, and my job was to pack up all the food and get it ready for people to pick up. And then at the other restaurants I

worked at, two I think, I was either a hostess or I worked in the back and I cashiered too. Oh, you cashiered too? In the kitchen. And you know, checking the food in the kitchen and I remember being a

teenager and having to work in the kitchen and then I'd go out with our friends and at that time, you know, most of the kids were uh, there parents all had grocery stores or restaurants.

And I remember going out at night, I felt like oh I smell like an eggroll. You know, sitting in the kitchen but um yeah it it was um, you know, we we all did did help out. Yeah, that's great.

So— And— Yeah, go ahead. Okay, I, I want, I thought this would be interesting. I just picked this up and you were trying to, how do we get contestants?

And this was like 1988. Now this was the Chinese Newspaper. Oh. In English? Right. Oh, they were. Is this your mom?

Yeah. That's my mom but this is Diana Chow. Was—did she ever run as a contest? No. She didn't run either. And this is her sister Cynthia Gee, who was married to Judge Herbert Gee, the city, the municipal court is

named after. And these— I don't know if I've been . I don't know. And then, this is Ron Chow and Alvin Gee, the

photographer. Alvin Gee. Right, I recognize this. Is he related to everybody or he just has exactly same last name? Uh… not Alvin is not related really to us. Alvin Gee?

Yes. Right. Or is he? I don't know. They Gee Village. He's not a close relative. Okay. But these two people like me are still in and he's still

the hair and makeup person and he's still the official photographer. Wow. And this is in 1980… Eight. But it goes back prior to that too. Woah. Oh wow. That is amazing.

And then this is Cookie Joe. So she's the one training dancing whose training everybody. Wow. Is she related Glenda Joe? That's her sister. Oh that's her sister.

Okay because they're Eurasian, right? They're born in, the mom— Right. The—the mom is Irish. Irish. That's right. Okay okay.

Right. Well I can't believe how you remember all these. Well, because I'm tracing everybody and it's fascinating to me. My first, when we first arrived in Houston, I think we first met Harry Gee and then Mrs.

Rose Gee who is my children's teacher at River Oaks Elementary. She's a very good friend. Right. And then Molly Gee was my mother's nutritionist.

So I think everywhere I turn there are Gee's. At Saint Johns, I met Nancy Woo, who's a Gee, right? Correct. Yeah, so lots and lots of Gee's. Fascinating family.

So my uh I guess I've had too many questions but uh in—in the restaurant business, how do you find the cooks? Are they family members or—? Well they're—that's hard—they're hard to get.

And uh that's when my husband when to um Hong Kong um looking for cooks. Um, he had a uh older brother in Hong Kong so he went over there and got the older brother

to uh to uh help him find cooks over there and then uh we got quite a few cooks uh to come over. You know, they got a VISA to come over because of their occupation.

We don't have enough people here to uh, you know, for—for what they can do. So we got quite a few um people from uh Hong Kong over here.

You know, to work in the restaurant business. Right, right. I see. That's how it's done. Um, when I was reading the—my—the interview

that my—our students did of you uh a while back, like several years ago, our students interviewed you and uh I think you said that it was difficult for you to go to school because you spoke only Chinese as a little girl at home and then you went to school and it was

very difficult and then uh you waited until your brother went to school with you, went back to school, right? Our mother never took us anywhere because she's from China and she couldn't speak English so she never took anywhere except to maybe uh

two or three relatives uh they have grocery stores too to visit uh but that doesn't happen that often either. So I was very

timid. I wouldn't go when it's time for me to enter elementary school, I went but I—I, you know, I was scared. And I wouldn't so I told my mother I wasn't gonna go and then

our grandmother was living with us at the time, you know, uh and uh then she said well ask me if I would go if she would go with me and I said yes so, in a way, so she went with me um

and the teacher opened the door and she put a chair out there for my grandmother to sit during that class. Well that happened maybe four about three or four days and then she told my uh she

told me that um, you know, she can't keep on sitting outside. So uh and then I wouldn't go back to school until my uh second brother, until he was old enough and he's a year and a half younger than I am, I did not go to

school, you can go to school in those days when you're uh either six or seven years old but I waited until he was he could go to uh school before I went back and so that we could be in the same class.

That's how Tom and, you know, because our mother took us anywhere. Yeah. So then uh did you learn English very quickly in class because you had to do all the

work in English? Well, we couldn't, I couldn't speak English. And that's a really a handicap, you know, because I don't understand a lot of things that were going on, stuff like that but uh I eventually, you

know, got over it but, you know, how to write these, you know, teach you uh… how to uh, how to write and how to uh print, you know, stuff like that. Right right. I see. Um so when you were growing up and there were

still segregation and discrimination um did you like in the Hispanic neighborhood or did you live in the African American neighborhood? No.

We live in Spani—uh Mexican neighborhood. Okay. And did you make friends with the Hispanic people and people and neighbors? Well, I we learned we learned how to speak Spanish before we even went to school. Oh oh okay.

So you could speak Spanish and just not English. Yeah. So when I went to school, you know, for fo—uh fo—foreign language, you have to pick one, you know, like Spanish or uh or German or whatever you want to do.

I always, I always take Spanish because I already know, you know, quite a lot of uh lot of it. So I don't even have a accent, I have 'cause our customers at my father's store,

they're all Mexicans so I learned how to, I learn how to speak um uh Spanish. I don't have an accent, I speak just like they do. Wow. That's impressive.

And I always took that, you know, all the way through high school, I took. That's how come I couldn't get in Rice, you know, another thing, you know, because uh I don't have enough uh uh science course but that's main thing and then uh in—uh—I didn’t have

enough uh, I think that um I take it back, I don't think it has anything to do with uh language. It's just I did not have enough uh science courses, so I took, I

took uh uh chemistry and biology in junior college, first year, and that's when I really applied and then uh they accepted me at Rice. Yeah. Well you must be a really good student, really smart, to do Biology and

Chemistry in college level to get into Rice. You know, I am a, you know, when I was going to school I was really uh want to uh learn and and uh we went to Chinese school after, you know, the American school.

And uh so I—I learned, you know, how to read and write Chinese of course, you know, I don't hardly remember hardly anything. I can still write my name, I don't but in

Chinese. That's great. That's great. Wha—what is your name is Chinese? Can you write your, I don't think I have your name in Chinese. Can you write it for me?

I don't know if I can write it anymore. Okay. I think we have just Jane Gee. Write it here? Yes, that would be wonderful. Thank you. Oh Ing is Wu ,

mandarin is Wu. Right, I didn't know, I thought it was Wu , I thought it was the other Wu. Yeah, it's the number five. Right, with a uh with a man's radical. See? It's more than a number five. Oh I see.

Okay. But you're you're Wu. Ted Wu's is the regular the— Five. It is too? Yeah, it is. Oh, okay. Oh it's beautiful.

Your calligraphy is better than mine. So I thought, I thought Ted Wu would be this Wu. Uh… no, mine is this one. Oh okay just like your mom's maiden name.

Right. My last—my—Ted's Ted's Chinese name is the same as yours. I think I have it written down over here. Linda. Here, I have a card. Okay. So uh that's

beautiful calligraphy. You write very well. Oh, it is Wu. Oh yeah so just like your mom's maiden name.

How about that. Can I keep it? Sure. Oh thank you, thank you. So um when so you had friends who were in the neighborhood, Hispanic. Did you feel any discrimination of uh

in the White community or growing up because I think there were separate water fountains and then, you know, people could not, the White people sat in the front of the bus and the colored people in the back. Did you ever feel any

discrimination? Well, uh you mean when I moved to Houston? Yeah. Or just growing up? Yeah. 'Cause in San Antonio, there's hardly any Black people.

They're all Mexicans and and White and Chinese. But there's no uh there's no Black people there and uh I was, I was really, when I first moved to Houston and then we got that

gro—the two grocery stores, it was in a Black neighborhood because, you know, you can't compete with supermarket or, you know, the White uh grocery stores. They're bigger, you know, so uh and then the, they I don't think the Black people go over

there. That's how come when the Chinese opened up stores here, they were successful. Ah I see. I see. Yeah. But you did not feel any uh discrimination by the White people um just, you know, Rice is definitely not a, you know, Rice accepts Chinese

students and I guess uh normally when you go about everyday, there was, you did not feel any discrimination? I don't think, I don't think that there was any discrimination against the Chinese.

It was uh the Black people that the uh that was discriminated against when we first come to, first came to Houston. Uh huh. Wa—was it dangerous for you to have a grocery store in the Black neighborhood? I'm sorry? Was it dangerous to have a grocery store in a Black neighborhood?

No, no. Because the Black people, you know, they're so downtrodden that they don't, you know, it's not like today, you know, the other Black people getting do uh uh bad

things. And uh… but uh in those days, the Black people were very, they keep to themselves and um they don't uh, you know, they don't commit crimes because uh they do I think

they uh, you know. Uh I—I remember one time when I was still in the Black neighborhood in the grocery store uh a policeman shot a uh a young man, you know, up in the street.

I don't know what for, but um they don't do anything about it. I mean they don't try to see why he shot him or anything like that, seem like he just like if you kill a dog or

a cat. Wow. It's so sad. That is so sad. Wow. Wow. So wow so uh I don't know because when we read your history um your life—the story of your life, you have been so

successful because you have done so many first and have accomplished so much um do you, do you think um how do I say this. Whe—when you look back on your own life, um

what—what thoughts do you have about all the achievements that you have already had? I don't know that I have that much achievement but um well our grandfather had a lot to do

with it when I was growing up and San Antonio. And—and he said that, and he said that if— when you grow up, if you don't work hard, he didn't say anything about education. My father's

the one that always talked education. Uh but my grandfather said hard work is for the, you know, he—that he stressed, said if you don't work hard and save your money, you're not even going to

have watermelon peel to eat one day. That—that scared the heck out of you. So this is your father's father? Or your mother's father? My father's father.

Uh my grandmother, his mother was in San Antonio too. Okay. So this is the grandmother that sat outside your classroom? Was the grandmother who sat was your…

Yeah, well that's my father's mother. Your father's mother. Uh huh. Okay, okay. Yeah he brought them ov—he brought them over from China. Uh he didn't bring my mother's mother over here.

Okay, yeah. He brought his mother, his parents over but he didn't bring. But you know, one good thing about him is that, you know, I really don't uh, you know, uh I think that he—he he's good hearted he he

sent money back to my maternal grandmother in China, every every month, you know. My mother would have him, ask him to send money to China so that she can, you know, be sure that she has enough

food. Yeah so he did that for her. He did that. He was a good son-in-law. And then uh my mother's bro—youngest brother, uh she, my mother wanted

him to bring her youngest brother over, and—and he did that too. He was, he was good hearted, yeah. Yeah, right, yeah.

So you think uh your grandfather really taught you to work hard, or scared you into working hard? Yeah. Well you, if you are a child, you know. And you don't even

have watermelon peel to eat. But didn't—I think you told me that around the dinner table you would hear lectures. Oh yeah, you know, uh we, my father, you know, built a two-story building, you

know, we—the store's downstairs, the bottom floor, and upstairs, we have our living quarters. And um and that's when uh but we get together at eight o'clock at night for dinner, that's

when all the all the start conversations scaring us about, you know. Since my grandfather's store. Oh wow, it's big.

So this is your grandfather's. Right. Not your father's store. No. Oh so he came… This is in San Antonio. Okay.

So he came to San Antonio from China. Correct. Right. And then your father was born here, in the States? Well my father was born in Detroit, Michigan. But then he had to go back

when his father died. Oh okay. That's a big house, that's a big building. Well they lived upstairs. Right. And but they owned the land, they owned the property?

Yes. They your—your dad owned the property on Santa Rosa. Oh yeah. This is my grandfa—my mom's mother and father. Your mom's oh your older—the— My grandparents. And that's at, what was this occasion at Seven Oaks?

Their birthday? Oh that's that's their uh uh wedding anniversary or—or no not their wedding anniversary. That's when when my father got uh reached the age of 60 that—that's a

pa—a party for him. And your grandfather's name is Richard Ing. No. Lin Don. Lin. L-I-N. Don.

D-O-N. Eng. E-N-G My father's name is, I think he spelled it L-I-N and then D-O-N. And then E-N-G And then N-G.

N-G. Not E-N-G. Just N-G. Okay. So okay so that's a picture. Uh huh. The reason we, you know, the younger generation of the Eng's,

put an E on it because you cannot pronounce N-G. So we just added it on. Okay so so so the siblings all have E-N-G. The parents are N-G.

Yeah, yeah. Okay okay. That's great. Yeah. Thank you. Well. Well one one brother kept N-G. Her… she has a brother like uh Tom Ng and

he is N-G. Oh okay. That's you mom dancing? Yes. Oh my goodness. And who's the man? Uh her ballroom dance teacher.

Oh okay. That's a pretty— That's another one of her passions. Your ballroom, your ballroom dancing. Oh yeah. I e—even went out of town, different places in United States for competition.

Oh you went on competition? Yeah. Oh my goodness. What type of dances? It's waltz or…? Ballroom dancing.

Ballroom. Oh wow. You see it done right now on television. On television, yes yes. That kind of dancing. That's right. So how many years of ballroom dancing did you do?

I I really don't know but I I did quite a few years. That's one of my teachers. I think you started when you were about 65. I think you started at 65 mom.

I know I took it for quite a few years. And then… And then you probably took it 'til you were in your early 80's. Right. So 20 years. About 15. 15 years.

Yeah. Wow. That's great for health. I really have a good time because we go to competitions and we go to different places uh here in the United States, you know. Did you have to make the co—buy the costumes for?

Oh yeah yeah. Wow that's sounds like a lot of fun. Did you go and attend your mom's competitions? Uh when they were here locally but she went on a lot of trips. They would go to, what was

that major one in Cleve—was it Cleveland Ohio? Or I don't remember. It used to be. I went to several, you know, uh different… Juliet Prowse was the big.

Oh! I remember Juliet Prowse. Yeah Juliet Prowse. Those long legs. Yes yes. She used to come and take that, yeah.

There's a Chinese couple here, Kay and Howard Chin, do you happen to know them? No I don't know them. Well they're the one that got me into ballroom dancing. Well they moved to Dallas. But I believe— Yeah but they were in Houston.

I know but they—that's why Anne probably doesn't know them now. But uh I think their daughter went to St John's Um last name is? Uh Chen. Oh there are a lot of Che n's Irene.

Is that the daughter's name? The—the daughter is Irene. Irene. What year? Uh well she—she already has a daughter in law school. So it's you know.

Did your children go to St. Johns? They went to Kinkaid. Oh okay. Yeah. That's why we didn't, we haven't met in school. But I I was just looking through here and you touched on a couple

things that um you might. Let me just move this over. Uh let's see. Let me take this out.

This is an old scrapbook but um and things are kind of random but uh… this I noticed see, you were talking about the picnic, the the Chinese Baptist Church, and

then this, my dad was the general chairman and then I remember having my picture taken. Oh. For the newspaper? I'm going to take picture of

this. Oh. Look at all these donors. The donors. Oh this is amazing information, because I'm, my next job is go to the history archive, the Metropolitan Archive, maybe find some of the financial assets of these grocery

stores to figure out, figure out what um what the finances looked like in the old days versus I think, did I show you? No I showed it to Harry. I have to show you, what we found

some of the assets of the grocery store and restaurants. Let me show you… um correct. Thank you. Oh so cute. In all those, yeah all the old uh photographs put people's

addresses in the newspaper and it it's just… Wow, why would they do that? I don't know. To make sure that this is authentic?

Such a pretty girl. So pretty. I remember eating. Is that a piece of bread? That's, I remember it was bread and that was barbecued ribs and the

potato chips. Oh, it was the picnic. It was this. Right, this is the picture that goes with it. But you're all dressed up for the picnic.

Yeah, I had a Chinese—well, you know, it's probably I don't know why I was dressed like that but maybe my father thought it would be good for publicity. You know, he was always thinking.

And then this is really interesting. This is 1950. Cosmopolitan Houston. Chinatown But look this is George Gee.

Have you seen this before? It's 1950. No no I have not, I have not. My goodness. Can I take a picture of that. Yeah. This is in the Houston newspaper or…?

Must be. And again, everybody has their address in there. This is like, she looks like Suzie Wong from the movie. Yeah that's uh Nancy, in fact that again see it's such a small community.

That is Diana Chow's mother's sister. Nancy Leo. This is George Gee's sister, Ruby. Oh my goodness. And who, Harry Wu. I don't know who that is.

Oh and then . Wow. Suzie Wong. I see Suzie Wong and Nancy Leo. She married uh George Gee's brother David Wo—uh Gee. Oh okay, wow… wow thank you, these

are great pictures. Yeah. This this was at Chinese church I think. Uh do you remember hearing about, this is Fan uh the Fans?

No. Okay they were very prominent with the Chinese Baptist Church, Joyce and Paul Fan. Oh I did—didn't he did he find—found the chur—didn't found the church. Well they very active in it and then— Somebody told me, I think Edward Chen told me I should investigate that but

is—doc she's a pro—professor at U of H, is that? Yes and they—they're both they both have passed on. But he is is they have a, one of, have you heard of Louis Yi? Louis?

The flying tiger? No that's I'm getting mixed up. Well I think he was yes he did, the mechanic. Oh yes, that's right. Yeah. Okay his son-in-law, let me think, yes

his son-in-law is one of their sons. Oh his son-in-law is one of the Fans? And he's a, yes. Wait—wait—wait let me get this straight.

Yes, one—his daughter Alice is married to Law—Lawrence Fan. Okay. Fan. Okay. And this is, this is not Lawrence?

No that's Leland. And I don't think he, I think he might be in Colorado. Okay. Oh yeah little Leland Lane. You know, I—I noticed that generation of girls who were born, there were a lot of Mamie's.

I wonder if that's because of Eisenhower. Oh Mamie, from Dwight Eisenhower. Yeah yeah, it was very interesting. Because in the picture, there were a lot of Mamie's. Right uh let's see but these were, like all these things have something about

my father restaurant. Agreed to try to keep these. Wow. Okay, this is sort of interesting. Wow, so all of this is in Houston Chronicle?

Right well or we— Yeah, that's great publicity. We had two newspapers, or three post the Chronicle and the Press. Okay. Those were all still surviving those days. Yeah. But nowadays the Chronicle's gone.

I mean, the post is gone. Yeah. Wow. A lot of history. Yeah. Here's the Ding How.

Oh Ding How, oh yeah the Ding—I think I have the Ding How information. Thank you. I have to show you what I have of the, I made a powerpoint presentation one

time that had some of your dad's restaurants in there. I'm almost done anyways. Um I'll show you but I did

look up. It's great that you have all the scrapbooks and all the good stuff in that. Yeah, but there's so much here that I think need to organize

better for sure. I just remembered Linda, Linda. Roy Rogers and Dale Evans was at the

. Wow. Well that, no they were at Ding How. They were at Ding How? Mhm. Oh yes, okay. So I had, I found um I found, there's a report.

It's at the Agency at the Houston Metropolitan Archive and they have some of the assets, at least they think are the assets of the restaurant. They didn't have the asset for Ding How.

But they had China Clipper. Is that yours or was that Harry Gee's? No that was, China Clipper was Harry's. Okay and then they have lots of these supermarkets, I mean not enough but I just

found a few with the prices and so I had the grocery stores and the restaurants. And so I think your dad is that right? I mean I don't know. Exactly. I don't remember Gee's Kitchen.

Oh Gee's Kitchen. I don't—I think I found that in some book somewhere. So this is the restaurants uh I think your husband's restaurants, the Ding How, Gee's Kitchen? See I—I've never, he had a Gee's Kitchen?

Yeah, he had that first and then and then the Frying Pan. Oh good, see I didn't know that. And the— Chinese owner, Hong Kong Chef. I think the Hong Kong Chef is

still operating. Mhm. And I missed the Asia, PolyAsia, right? I didn't have it in here. Yeah—uh it's Poly-Asian. Yeah. Yeah I missed that one. And Ding How also very successful.

Which which of the restaurant the most successful of this group? I think I missed Poly-Asian. Which which restaurant was the most financially successfully.

Well the… I don't know about the Frying Pan. That's takeout? No. Chinese Oven. Oh oh the takeout. Yeah Chinese Oven was successful.

Hong Kong Chef was successful. Which is the one the mayor would go to and the city council all the, which one is where all the politicians met?

I think Ding How was where it started. Okay okay. That would be such a great story. Somebody can write a story about that. So Poly-Asian and Ding How were bigger restaurants than

these other ones. Yeah. Well Gee's Kitchen was not, I think that's where he started. And the frying pan he—I—I I didn't know anybody about him. I hadn't met him when he was at Gee's

Kitchen. Frying Pan was uh the uh the second one uh that's where I met him because uh I—I had I had met Albert at the—at the Main Cafe I believe. Oh when he was working for Harry Gee because that's Harry Gee's restaurant.

Yeah. Okay. Um he was there uh I think when I met him because when my brother and my, my brother and I came over one summer to visit our older sister that was

living—married here, uh we went we—we decided to go see, you know, a Chinese restaurant to see what is, we went to Main Cafe, and I think that's where I met Albert um uh the first time, you know.

Right right. And then after you met Albert, and then after you got married, you—you started Frying—that's your first restaurant, no. No he's not, after we were married, he—he—he didn't have the um the Frying

Pan anymore but he still had the Hong Kong Chef and the Chinese Oven. And Ding How? Yeah we had the Ding How. I think the Frying um I met him but I were—we weren't

married yet. When I first came to Rice here. I just walked by, see I had met him before at the Main Cafe and then when I walked by, he was at the Frying Pan,

and—and he saw me, I was walking by to catch a bus to go to Rice, and he came out then see saw me. Because I had met him already so I, he invited me to go in for coffee. Did you go to Rice later that day

or? I enjoyed my year at Rice. I had uh I had a couple of sisters that was living close to, see I was living with my uh uh uh brother-in-law

and my older sister when I was going to Rice so uh uh and I used to, uh, walk by the Frying Pan, I didn't uh I didn't know that uh it was him uh who owned it .

And he saw me walk by to catch a bus to go to Rice, you know, I have to take the bus to go to Rice. And that's how that's how your dad saw your mom, courted your mom. And there's a couple of other Rice students that lived close to wh—where I

was living with my sister and brother-in-law, sometimes we would walk from Rice back it's—it's about three miles. Oh wow. That's a long walk. It's a long walk yeah.

So did you start Ding How together with Mr. Gee? Did you begin this restaurant together? Yeah yeah I think so, that's after we were married and we started. Okay and then so when you had Ding How, did you also have Poly-Asian, or was

Poly- Asian after Ding How? I think Ding How was first. Yeah. Okay and was Ding How closed. Did you close Ding How and then move on to PolyAsia or

did you have it at the same time or? I'm sorry? Um did you have Poly-Asian, that restaurant on Main Street the same time that you still had Ding How? Yes yes we did.

Yeah we had. Many business going the same time. Okay. Wow that's so then how did you, did you hire people to help you run the restaurants because that's a lot of business to take care of.

Oh yeah I—he I mean like uh waiters and cashiers and cooks. Okay. But— You know, you have to staff your restaurant. But did—was but but I'm not sure myself.

Was Ding How still open and running when we had Poly-Asian, or did we leave Ding How? They were, they were running at the same time? So then, dad had to have a manager of one restaurant

while… 'cause I don't remember there both happening. Yeah I know that we had both at the same time. Okay. You did? Okay okay. Yeah and so basic—you probably had relative running managing

restaurants? Uh… I don't remember but you where fi—we forgot another, we forgot another restaurant. There was the Poly-Asian West. Yeah. Oh okay. That's another restaurant?

Yes that was on the corner of Sage and Westheimer, where the J. W. Marriot Hotel is. Oh okay. So your dad ran that at the same time as Poly-Asian Main,

Ding How… because that's why he had to call West, Poly-Asian West. Right right. I think that's the place that uh we had uh we invited uh a lot of friends to come help us celebrate our 25th wedding anniversary, you know.

Wow fabulous. Well I think, thank you, thank you so much. This is wonderful information. Thank you for spending time with me. Well I'm I'm glad to help.

Thank you, thank you so much, so um I think, I think that's all the questions I have. Oh and have some, have some uh… Oh yes, it smells some good, I'm going to have some definitely.

When I finish my interview, I will start eating. Thank you so much. Have a donut and a cookie. My my favorite is donut.

It's very dangerous. Thank you so much, thank you.