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Hello, today is Wednesday, July 7th, 2021. My name is Emily Ma, and I'm here with Dr. Lam Yu for the Houston Asian American Archive at Rice.

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And I'm also here with Yiyi Yang as a co–interviewer. So, starting from the very beginning, when and where were you born? I was born in–in Taisan, China. Guangdong, China, and that's in the south

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of China, pretty close to Hong Kong. And I was born in 1977. Okay, awesome. And what are some of the memories that you associate with the neighborhood that

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you grew up in? So–so–so I didn't really grow up in the neighborhood that–that I was born in. I mean, my–my mom and I moved to Hong Kong when—I guess, my mum, my

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dad, and I moved to Hong Kong when I was two, so I don't really remember. So–so–so the neighborhood I grew up in Hong Kong is–is in–in a part of

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Hong Kong called Kwai Chung, it's in the new territory, which is north of the Kowloon Peninsula. It's–it's—we live in a–a-apartment

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highrise, so we live on the 18th floor. The neighborhood is pretty quiet. I guess in Hong Kong standard would be considered kind of suburban, but, I mean, there's really, you

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know, it's Hong Kong, so it's still pretty dense. So, but it's a–it's a small neighborhood, there's a park right, you know, right below the apartment building, and then it's a short walk to the elementary school that I

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went to, and also a short walk to the metro station, so. Yeah, awesome, and do you have any like childhood hobbies that you liked to do? Mainly—so in Hong Kong, I guess there was an...

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see, what did we do, there was a lot of time spent on schools, I think that, like, from elementary school on, you–you—it's really critical for you to–to do school, do well in school, so I spent a lot of time tutoring.

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But the—when I was young, we, you know, we go to the park, and we hang out, I hang out with like, the neighborhood kids, we went around. And when I

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was in about first grade is when like Nintendo arrive in Hong Kong, so–so–so I used to go to my friend's house to play Nintendos. I didn't own the game system, I'd just go to other people's places to play.

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There's also like, little convenience store that have like video games console set up in the back, so you can go and play that too. So, yeah. Yeah, awesome, and so more—so like a little bit about your parents, could you tell me a

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bit about your parents' occupation? So, my–my–my dad works most of the time that I'm, you know, that–that I've been alive.

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He's work as a chef in a Chinese restaurant here in Houston. So–so when I was in Hong Kong with my mom,

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she—when I was fairly little she–she worked in a clothing factory that was owned by my uncle. And then–and then when that closed, so the business went bust, I don't remember, like probably when I was

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in first or second grade, and then she just did sort of odd jobs. And then when we moved to Houston, the year—less than a year after we move, my brother was born, so my mom just stay at home and raised two

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kids. So she didn't really have job, like a regular job until my brother and I basically moved out of the house. And then she worked a while for—as a contractor

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for Medicare, she like, goes and clean these older ladies' house and she did that for several years. And now both my dad and my mom are retired. I see, and how was like your relationship as a child with your parents?

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Like, what were some values that they emphasized when you were young? Well, I really didn't know my dad. So–so–so my–my—we

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moved to Hong Kong when we were two, but then my dad went to Costa Rica to work when I was around three. So I don't really remember

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anything about my dad until we were reunited when I'm, like, 10 and a half. So–so–so for my mom, I guess, you know, being respectful,

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doing the right things. Don't make a big scene. That sort of things. I mean, I guess, you know, there was a strong emphasis on doing well in school,

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but that's sort of the I mean, I think that's, you know, she–she think that's important. But that's also a cultural thing in Hong Kong. Like I said, everyone I knew had,

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you know, go to extra tutors after school, so. Yeah, for sure. Do you think that you got, like, closer with your dad over time? I would say probably closer than complete stranger, but we were never, I mean, we were never close

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in, you know—because, you know, I just didn't know him. And by the time I met him, I was already, you know, almost a teenager.

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So, and we have very different interests and different, you know, outlook in life. So–so we, yeah, we–we're just how we are.

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Yeah, I see. And so in your household, did you grew up speaking Cantonese? And if so, do you still speak that now? I speak Cantonese growing up.

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I guess my very first language which I don't remember—well, I guess my mom said I—she–she wanted me to speak Cantonese. But in Taisan, they have their own dialect, which is slightly, could be substantially different depending on what words you're

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saying. But it's–it's–it's a, it's a sub–dialect of Cantonese. So–so like in China, there's a lot of regional dialect within regions. So, you know, people who live within, probably,

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you know, 100 mile from each other could be incomprehensible if they were speaking their native dialect. So–so I spoke sort of that, the Taisanese dialect and Cantonese, but my mom said she emphasized the Cantonese

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dialect because it's just the more common dialect for where we live, or where we planned to live, I guess, in Hong Kong. So–so–so yeah, so

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for my entire time in Hong Kong, I spoke only Cantonese. So–so when we moved to America, then I learned English. I still speak Cantonese with my parents

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now, but my–my wife is–is American. And my kids, you know, they're, you know, they're–they're a mixture of both. So–so we—my primary language is

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English. I see. And were there any like traditional, like, holidays or cultural customs that you practiced growing up in Hong Kong? Well, yes, Hong Kong has sort of a mixture

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of Buddhists and Taoists, Daoists, sort of popular religions that people, a lot of people practice. I would say, you know, we have we–we–we do ancestral

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worships. Like a lot of people, there is an altar to my grandfather, my maternal grandfather, so I—so in Hong Kong I lived in an apartment with my mom and her mom. And occasionally, one of my–my mom's

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brothers. So–so–so there's, you know, a–an altar, an—sort of an ancestral alter, alter. There's the–the guardian. And–and–and the

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Buddha. So it's a mixture of that kind of things. And I remember like on certain religious sort of holidays, we'll go to a temple. We, you know, we'd go

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celebrate Chinese New Year's and all the major Chinese traditional holiday like the Mid, Mid–Autumn Fes–festival, the Dragon Boat Festival.

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So, and then we go to clean the grave in–in the fall for, yeah, Chung Yeung , for, you know, for my grandfather again.

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So–so that's sort of the extent of religious practice. There's nothing formal. I see. And I know like a lot of these practices involve food. Is there like a specific food that you miss

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a lot from home? Well, I mean, having been—I mean, living in Houston, being the most diverse city in America, there isn't really any food that, you know, I couldn't get from

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home. Yeah, I mean, there probably were food that I missed when I first moved here, but I don't really remember. So, I mean, yeah, my mom still makes the,

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you know, the rice, sort of a Chinese version of the tamale, quite often. That's sort of a fairly common, like, holiday food that you eat for New Year, you eat for the Dragon Ball Festival, but

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so, yeah, I mean, I–I guess I miss sort of, like, having—watching like a lot of people, like a lot of, like, my grandma and my mom and my aunts getting together and like, making those.

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I mean, that's, you know, it's–it's really a communal endeavor, but like my mom just make it herself now, but–but, you know, that was, that was nice. I guess I do miss

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fresh food, fresh seafood. Because in Hong Kong, when I was growing up, we don't usually shop at the supermarket, I think that there was one nearby, but most of the time, we shop for the

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protein and the vegetable in the open air market. So where you just, you know, you wanted a chicken, you get a live chicken, and they, you know, they killed it, pluck it for you there, and then you go, you know, to

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another stall and then come back, they're, you know, it's done. And then you wanted fish, there's a fish there, it's—a lot of time they're either live or they–they would cut them down the middle.

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So–so they're–they're, you know, they just lay out and the heart is still beating. So and–and like you, you know, you wanted beef or pork, you go to a butcher and there's still

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the cow, and they just chop off the bits. So I do miss that part about the food being like so fresh, and you know, so–so you, you really see the food that you know, like I didn't, you know, I knew what my food looked like

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growing up, as opposed to just like this package that you get from a grocery store. Yeah, that's like the definition of fresh. So we would also like to know a bit about like, the education

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system where you grew up. So what elementary school did you attend? Like, what was the name of your school? And like, what was it like?

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So I went to—my education's mainly in–in–in Hong Kong, so I only stopped, I mean I only went through the elementary school system.

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So, I guess like, I started in preschool, so–so like all the preschool in Hong Kong I think are private, so like they're private schools, so–so, but almost everyone goes because

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education is so important. So I started in second grade. I mean, when I was two, I started when I was two. So–so then I was at one preschool, and then it closed

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because being a private company, they just, you know, they just, not all of them make it. And then I went to a different one for I think, two years, and then I started first grade.

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So in Hong Kong, I think it's still probably true now, most of the–the–the secondary school, like elementary and middle and high school, are government sponsor, but they are run by

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organizations. So–so most of them are some kind of religious affiliated. So I went to a Christian school, I think the name is like, Heoi Ta Tung, which is some person's name, I don't actually really know.

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Ah, so–so–so if I remember correctly, the way it works is for elementary school, you, the parents will apply to different schools. So it's not like public school here, where you have, you know, you go

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to the school that is assigned to your, to–to your house. So there were like, maybe three elementary school that were sort of

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within walking distance from my house. So–so my mom would apply to–to them, and then, you know, see which one accepts you. I'm not sure exactly what criteria they use to accept someone into first grade, but

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I guess they do it here, too. So–so–so I went to this school, which is probably not, I think it's sort of in the middle, not like the really top school,

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but not the very worst. Like I said, it's a Christian like organization, that runs it. So–so it's a morning and afternoon break, so like, you can either go to school in the

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morning, or you can go to school in the afternoon, after lunch. So for—I was there for four and a half years. So I always did the afternoon class.

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So, yeah, so we started in first grade. I think there's usually I think there was like, seven periods. So you go there from, I think, maybe 12:30 until 5:30. So like, the entire afternoon.

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So–so–so there's always, the curriculum always have Chinese, English, and math, and social study, and–and Bible study.

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So–so I think those were the main subjects. I think there's like music and arts that, you know, you–you don't go to every day. So in this,

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yeah, so–so there's two recess break, oh, and there's PE. And then I always think it's interesting, like the—so–so there's sort of this, it's really discipline-oriented. So like every day in the beginning, we would line up by

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class in the, in–in the, on the first floor of the school, which is just a big open area. And then that's where you do—they give announcement, and like, they, we do prayers.

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So, you know, being a Christian school, we do prayers in the beginning of the school, and you had to like line up really straight, and you have to, you have–you have to be on time, like, like,

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there's al–always these punishment for like, stepping out of line. So like if you, if you're late, then they make you stand in the front of the–of the hall so everyone can see you. And then–and then after, you

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know, the announcement and the prayer, people go to their classes. You–you have to stay there until everyone's leave. And then the–the assistant principal would come and take

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your name down and then assign some kind of punishment. So–so–so I guess I was, I'm old enough that it was still common practice

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to do corporal punishment in elementary school, so–so but that's sort of for–for usually for higher infraction, but a lot of time you

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would lose your-your recess. So you would, instead of going to recess you would get, you would stand, you would stay in a room during recess time and do your homework or something. So punishment like

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that. Sometime, they would make you right, you know, "I will not be late" or "I will not do..." whatever you did 100 time. So–so–so I got that quite, well, not quite a bit, but I figured

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out that you can use carbon paper, if you write, you know, they assign 100 times, you can wait pretty big print 25 times, and you just use two carbon paper, if you're careful enough, they can't tell.

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So–so–so that was like a really, for–for—I mean, I didn't, I guess I didn't know really at the time, but compared to the American education system it's–it's much more high pressure on the children.

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So–so–so you get, you know, homework every night, and you get tested regularly. And then you get rank in your–in your individual class, but you also get ranked

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by your entire grade. So there's a lot of, like, you know, knowing where you are in the acade–academic hierarchy, because everyone asked everyone else

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where you are, you know, where you are. So, and then, you know, and the parents get quite involved. And yeah, so, I mean, I was an okay, student, I guess I would

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say I was pretty good. I would say I was probably in the top, I don't know, 10% maybe. So, but there was also a lot of like, busy work, I think,

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so–so—which is probably true, you know, across most elementary school, because, you know, they're kids, you got to keep them occupied. So I remember in third grade, I realized that like, my teacher

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probably are not, like, really reading all the assignments she gave. So–so–so I remember for a period of time, so like–like, again, because of how much, you know, emphasis in this, in–in the, in education, like

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we all, my mom always make me like do like workbooks in the summer. So–so–so in the summer, I just, you know, doodle and work, you know, do whatever on the workbook. So for a time in third grade, I

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remember that I like, I have all these scratch paper. And I get these assignments. So I would just do like the first page and then just staple a bunch of scratch paper that I'd done

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with—wherever in the summer. And I never like—my teacher never mentioned it. So I assume that my assumption is correct that, you know, they don't actually read it.

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So yeah, so I was fine academically. I was ranked pretty consistently in the top three or four within my–my class and in the top five or so within my–my–my

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grade. So–so then we move from Hong Kong to Ameri—to Houston, when I was sort of most of the way through my fifth grade. So I didn't finish fifth grade, so and then

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we moved. So–so that's, that's all I can say about the Hong Kong system, up until the middle of fifth grade. I see. Yeah, I think compared to like my own experiences just growing up completely in the American education system, that definitely sounds like a lot more intense than what I

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would be used to. But I like, like the carbon copy paper trick. That's pretty cool. So how did that academic pressure like, change once you came to America, did you feel like a big shift? Well, so when I first came to America, like we have English classes

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in–in–in school being a—when I was there, it was still a British colony. But I think they still take English in Hong Kong even now. But anyways, you know, it's kind of like taking

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Spanish here in elementary school. I mean, like, I know certain words. I didn't know anything about grammar. So–so–so it was, it was almost like from scratch

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to learn English. So–so–so when I first came here, my dad was working in this restaurant out in Clear Lake. So it's–it's a fairly, I guess, a fairly affluent

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suburb. And I went to this elementary school that is really, looking back, is–is a really sort of the, like Norman Rockwell, sort of like the what people imagine

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like elementary, American–American school school in sort of the, in the 80s is like, so like, you know, there was, there was almost no diversity. And–and everything is really clean.

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And–and there were, there–there was an ESL program, but it, the entire program from the entire school consisted of me and this other girl from a part of Mexico.

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So that was, that was the, you know, the entire ESL class for the entire school. So–so there were really no

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expectation for me to do anything in the school. So, I mean, I show up and I remember, the math was ridiculously easy, like, you know, so–so I came,

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and they put me in fourth grade, like, because I was, I was actually young for my age in Hong Kong, and being young—so they just go by the age. So then–so then I was put in fourth grade, which is fine, you know, I didn't speak English, so it doesn't

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really matter which grade I was put in. So I remember the–the math was ridiculously simple, they—and–and–and I learned English by interacting with the kids and watching TV.

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I remember, like, it seems like we spent a lot of time watching The Little Mermaid. Like, whenever there was like, I don't know what, I didn't understand, but like, I guess there were, like,

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some days where, like, there was no class material covered. So like, we just watched—and they always show The Little Mermaid. I guess that was sort of the time when Little Mermaid just came into like

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VHS or something. So that was odd. I mean, in Hong Kong, we watched educational, like, TV occasionally. But like, we never watch a movie in–in–in school.

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So I think most parents would think that would be a waste of time and their money. But–but I did remember it was odd that we were watching the same movie a lot. So yeah, and it was interesting.

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I—you—we have the school play. I was, I participated, I just stood there. I think I play like a monk or some, like a missionary or something, but you just stand there. I don't—I mean, a lot of things I didn't quite understand, like Thanksgiving.

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And so I came like in '88. And we did like a mock election for the presidential election. It was Bush and Mondale, I don't even remember who I voted for.

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Not that it matters. So–so–so there were a lot of like activities that, you know, I was part of, because there wasn't like a–like a really, like an ESL class. So–so I just participated with everybody else.

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And on hindsight, I think that was good, too, for integration, like as opposed to isolating you into like, you know, a separate room somewhere, and just with other people who are learning English.

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So–so I was there for one year. Or—no, yeah, I guess, one year, and then my dad got a different job on the other side of Houston, which is where I spent most of my

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time in–in Houston, so in the Spring Branch area. So then I moved and then I was in fifth grade, to this other school and it's a completely different school. Like the demographic is extremely like diverse,

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like–like white was the minority student body. And there was a lot more kids in ESL program and we have, like, kids from–from Laos, we have kids from

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Vietnam, there's me, there's like, kids from Japan. So it was, it was a completely different demographically school, and it's also a less wealthy area. And in the

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school, just like we're, like, dirtier and like, everything were like not, as, you know, clean and new. So–so–so I was there for fifth grade, it was called Westview Elementary, I still pass it when I go see my

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parents, for a year. And–and so it really gave sort of a, you know, me as sort of different view of like American educational system–system and how, how different it

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is, depending on the affluence of the neighborhoods. So like the–the one in Clear Lake, it was like, right next to like a golf course. So I remember I would walk to school, and I would like cut through the golf course.

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And I see people hitting golf ball, and I didn't know what that was, it was just odd that these, you know, really kind of older men, were like hitting ball, at like seven o'clock in the morning,

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but the grass was always green. So like when I moved to–to Westview in Spring Branch, it's really different feel. So yeah, so that's sort of my first two

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years of introduction to the Amer–America in the educational context. So like, I guess that's, you know, even at that point, I felt that it was odd that there was such a large

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difference in like financial supports for not only both public schools. I see. So like, the first elementary school I attended was, like, better maintained, but like, the second one was more diverse.

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So like, which one do you think you enjoyed better? I mean, I don't know if I enjoyed one more than the other, I mean, like, it wasn't something that I particularly cared about, whether it was maintained or not, it was just

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something I noticed. I mean, as a kid, you just, you know, you just go wherever. So it was, it was just different. Like the first school was

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really, was just really insular, I feel. And the, and the other one were more–more interesting, it was, like, more exciting, more fun.

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I mean, even though, you know, the kids, the kids were different. Like, somehow the kids in the second school all seemed more mature and older than the kids from the first school. And I think being more insular have to do with it.

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Like in the first school, there were never any fights. But like, in the second school, like there was several fights, and that was always an exciting time for people. I think, like, I remember pretty vividly one time, like the—one

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of the Laotian kid got into a really big fight in the playground. And it was like, it was a big commotion. I don't even know what it was for. But—and yeah, I

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mean, I feel, you know, as, I guess, as welcome in both school, so, you know, it's just, I guess it's kind of like the difference between, like, living in like–like Cincinnati, or, you know, some–some

00:34:24.050 - 00:34:38.140

middle Americas city and living in New York City. It's just, there's just different feel, so. Yeah, that makes sense. Did you have any, like, defining moments as you moved on to like middle or

00:34:38.140 - 00:34:54.110

high school? Defining moment as I move on to middle and high school... I mean, so I don't know if defining

00:34:54.110 - 00:35:11.590

moment—so like, when I moved from elementary school to middle school, the sixth grade is–is where, like, really they, they separated out the ESL kids.

00:35:11.590 - 00:35:29.990

Like in–in elementary school, I guess they don't do that. But like in–in–in sixth grade, in the middle school, they would take all the students who are ESL, and so we would go to the school that, you know, we're assigned.

00:35:29.990 - 00:35:41.940

Like, I went to a school called Spring Woods Middle School. And then—actually, I went there, it was called Junior High School, and then sort of toward the end, they changed it to middle school.

00:35:42.820 - 00:35:58.710

But anyway, so–so I would go to that school in the morning. And then after homeroom, I think, then all the ESL kids would go on to another bus, and then they ship us to a different school that is, like,

00:36:00.860 - 00:36:18.040

I think is—that–that building is sort of a mix—it used to be, I think that school used to be a high school, but it got too small, or for some reason, they don't use it as a high school anymore. And–and so that's where, like, they put the

00:36:18.040 - 00:36:37.690

ESL kids, and that's where they put the discipl–disciplinary kids. So like, there's where the kids who are, like, is–is sort of in between, they're–they're—they did something bad, but not bad enough that they're permanently

00:36:37.690 - 00:36:48.670

suspended. So they would go, they would send them to that–that–that place. So there would be like, multiple bus from all the schools. And–and they

00:36:48.670 - 00:37:00.940

would have the ESL kids and the disciplinary kids come in, in the bus. And–and that was kind of odd. I feel like, you

00:37:04.180 - 00:37:22.520

know—and so–so–so I did that for one year. And then I sort of graduated out of that scheme of things. So–so that was, that was an extremely diverse population, like, so the entire

00:37:22.520 - 00:37:38.320

school, you know, student body of every class were people from other country. So–so I think, like I said, it's–it's sort of, you know, in some way blocks the–the assimilation

00:37:39.430 - 00:37:56.890

for–for some of the students, so because there would be students in there that would be in that scheme for years. And they just sort of, you know, like I think it sort of helped that there weren't anybody else that speak

00:37:56.890 - 00:38:09.610

Cantonese, for me. Like, so there were like a lot of kids that spoke Spanish, so they'd just speak Spanish all the time. So they're, you know, even though they're learning English in the class, every

00:38:09.670 - 00:38:24.100

other interaction other than the one with the teacher, they were in Spanish, whereas I have to communicate by English only. So–so–so I finished that scheme.

00:38:24.100 - 00:38:37.460

And then in seventh grade, I just have regular English class. And then I have one period that is, what, like advanced ESL. So I don't quite know what

00:38:37.990 - 00:38:49.900

that—why—I guess that's a transitional thing. So, and then–and then I did advanced ESL for a year, and then after that it was just normal curriculums.

00:38:53.280 - 00:39:07.170

So–so–so I guess, I don't know if, you know, there's any defining moment, but it was certainly a transition in how the American, how the school system organizes student that I noticed.

00:39:07.680 - 00:39:19.410

I mean, it's, you know, it's kind of hard to miss, right? Because you–you ship everyone, you know, that is a particular characteristic off to a separate place away from the general

00:39:19.410 - 00:39:33.200

population of students. So yeah, it's odd. But I guess it's not—given, you know, how America is, it's not

00:39:33.200 - 00:39:52.190

surprising. Yeah, for sure, and thank you for sharing. So do you—would you say that you developed maybe like an interest in STEM or physics during your time in high school, or like even, maybe even earlier than that? I

00:39:52.190 - 00:40:05.740

guess there's probably an interest in STEM, yeah, probably in high school. Like, I don't really remember anything school

00:40:05.740 - 00:40:23.160

wise in middle school. I guess like my–my most, like the teacher I was closest to in middle school was–was my American history teacher.

00:40:23.880 - 00:40:41.380

So, and he–he was a good guy. But I did remember someone, maybe one of the science teacher, mentioned like superconductors collider because

00:40:41.380 - 00:40:57.100

that was when like Texas was supposed to get this giant particle accelerator. And I didn't know at the time what that is, but, but I did remember that. But I don't really recall anything science related,

00:40:57.970 - 00:41:11.310

really, in middle school. So my ninth grade, I had–I had like probably like one of the best biology high school teacher I ever encounter.

00:41:12.010 - 00:41:21.590

And she's, you know, she's—she–she got an award and, you know, so–so that was a really nice class. So–so–so that was my first

00:41:21.800 - 00:41:38.960

introduction to sort of STEM area in ninth grade biology. And she made everything really interesting, I remember, like, dissect—you know, cutting things up and like going to the zoo. And overall, it was just a

00:41:39.140 - 00:41:51.670

really good class. I remember she had a teaching assistant at the time. And he was, he would take time to like, do side demonstration for kids who, you know, want to stay

00:41:51.670 - 00:42:06.070

after, so–so I mean, I think it does have a lot to do with, like, the teacher that you happen to have, right? So–so–so that first year was where I thought like

00:42:06.450 - 00:42:14.090

science was cool. Before, I really didn't thought much about anything. Like I said, my favorite subject was actually American history.

00:42:14.350 - 00:42:23.680

But again, because that was my favorite teacher. So–so I think as a kid, that—you do conflate that a lot with like personality

00:42:24.560 - 00:42:40.730

and–and interest. So–so–so yeah, so I think that would be, you know, just my ninth grade biology teacher. Yeah, I–I definitely agree with that idea.

00:42:41.420 - 00:42:59.050

And moving on to like the college admissions process, like, why did you choose Trinity University to attend? So, so let's—so I applied

00:42:59.050 - 00:43:11.690

to not a whole lot of school. I know that probably sounds surprising for, like, the current cohort of students. I think, like, current cohort of students apply to, like, tons of schools.

00:43:11.730 - 00:43:25.500

And I think I only applied to three schools. I applied to UT, Trinity, and Rice.

00:43:26.650 - 00:43:39.430

And–and I didn't really want to go to UT because I didn't want to go to a really big school. And I got waitlisted for Rice, but now I teach here, so what do you know?

00:43:40.650 - 00:43:57.200

So–so–so then it's—so I only applied to–to three school, and I got accepted to two and waited—waitlisted on the third one. So–so–so now I'm going to Trinity. I mean, I guess if you just look at it that way, that seems straightforward.

00:43:57.770 - 00:44:14.660

But why did I choose those three schools? So–so from high school, like from most of high school, I had a speech therapist that, you know, helped me

00:44:14.890 - 00:44:32.840

with, like, just speaking English more clearly ad her son goes to Trinity. And when I was, like, in eleventh grade, I was, you know, getting ready to apply, she offered to

00:44:32.960 - 00:44:51.700

drive me to Trinity because she was going to visit her son, so–so–so we did like this, you know, like, visit. By just like—I'm sure a lot, you know, you've probably done with your school. So–so–so Trinity is

00:44:51.790 - 00:45:04.600

really the only school I visited. And again it's because of a–of a teacher. So–so that was the only school I was familiar with and I was, you know, comfortable with.

00:45:04.790 - 00:45:17.300

Like I–I–I stayed there overnight in, you know, a dorm. It turns out like the guy I stayed with, he actually—one of the guys in the–in the room, he was a

00:45:17.300 - 00:45:34.060

physics major. So–so you know, so there's a lot of like personal connection to, you know, what path you choose to go in life. So–so–so that's why I chose Trinity.

00:45:35.320 - 00:45:54.140

Also, I got, like, it was pre—like–like I said, my–my mom didn't work, my dad worked in a Chinese restaurant. So it's like, we–we–we're not well off, I guess, I think we could have, I could have applied to free lunch

00:45:54.600 - 00:46:11.620

for–for—I probably qualify for free lunch, but like my mom always made me lunch, I never, like, applied for it. So–so–so between need-based and merit-based scholarship, it was probably

00:46:11.620 - 00:46:23.920

cheaper for me to go to Trinity than it was to go to UT. And–and I really didn't have that much loan. And then actually, my

00:46:23.920 - 00:46:39.720

student—my sophomore year, I got this external scholarship, I got a Goldwater Scholarship, which paid for the rest of the tuition. So like for my junior and senior year, I basically didn't have to pay anything, or I

00:46:39.720 - 00:46:54.470

didn't have loan or anything. So–so financially, it also makes sense for me to go to Trinity. Yeah, for sure, that sounds awesome. So what—like in Trinity, what were some extracurriculars or

00:46:54.470 - 00:47:12.690

like jobs or clubs that you attended? So–so I started at Trinity as an engineering major. And then I switched to physics my sophomore

00:47:12.750 - 00:47:29.700

year, because it doesn't matter what—whether you're physics or engineering, everyone takes the same intro classes. So–so like my social circle really is mainly around the physics department.

00:47:31.220 - 00:47:45.730

I also had work study. So–so for several years, my freshman and sophomore, I think maybe junior year, I think it's just my freshman and sophomore year, I worked in library for interlibrary loan.

00:47:46.750 - 00:48:03.060

And that was a nice, nice job, you–you—people sent in their request by fax. I think they–they had also like, an electronic system too, but, like, sometimes they would send it in by fax.

00:48:03.600 - 00:48:16.100

And then you would take, you know, a pile of the requests and you go to the stack, and you bring the book back, sometime the request's like just a copy, so you would copy like 20 pages from a book.

00:48:17.100 - 00:48:28.080

And then you send, you know, you fax them back or you mailed the book to them. So that was a, that was a really relaxing job. Quiet. Sometime I just, you know, if

00:48:28.100 - 00:48:41.180

there's an interesting book someone requested, I just read–read it for a while and... so–so, but–but in the physics department at the time,

00:48:43.780 - 00:49:01.250

it was sort of, I come at a time when we were were ramping up with the physics club. So–so every physics department have a chapter of—almost everyone have a chapter called SPS, so it's

00:49:01.250 - 00:49:16.490

Society of Physics Students. So that's pretty common for all American University. So and–and act—how active they are really depends on student body, like for example,

00:49:16.490 - 00:49:28.810

Rice version of SPS has been pretty low active for a while. But–but when I started in Trinity, that was when we were start—like the, just happened

00:49:29.240 - 00:49:44.660

with the cohort of students that were in the physics department at that time, they were just ramping up. So we did a lot of stuff, like–like a big thing we had was, like, we have these physics t–shirt design every

00:49:44.660 - 00:50:01.770

year. And we would, you know, brainstorm about the design. And one of the, one of the student there, she's–she's–she's actually a returning student. So–so she's about maybe 10 years older than everyone else.

00:50:02.320 - 00:50:18.880

So–so her husband actually, she and her husband actually run a small t–shirt business. So I think that was sort of also why we were so into making physics t–shirt, because she's like—so–so we would

00:50:18.880 - 00:50:33.370

sell these t–shirt, we'd have different events, we promote the t–shirts, so a lot of things like, you know, sort of going around, like, doing t–shirt things. And then we would have sort of like physics events and like organize,

00:50:33.520 - 00:50:49.560

help organize those things. And, of course, we also spent a lot of time just doing homework. So–so–so there was like this computer lounge, where I would say I spend majority of my time at

00:50:49.560 - 00:51:04.030

Trinity, in–in the computer lounge–lounge, where I was, you know, either on the computer trying to get something to run, or like working on homework problems. So, yeah, so there were a lot of just, you know,

00:51:04.680 - 00:51:24.850

camaraderie in–in–in the program. And we'd have, we have softball games, and–and I think like my junior and senior year, we have weekly, on Saturday morning, we would have flag football with the

00:51:25.210 - 00:51:36.910

math department. So–so it was like, a lot of the physics undergraduate—Trinity is a primarily undergraduate institution.

00:51:36.910 - 00:51:50.390

So like, there's very few graduate student, they're in, like, urban study or something, but—so–so–so it'd be the physics students, and then the math students and the math faculty.

00:51:51.610 - 00:52:06.130

So that was, like, a lot of fun, just, you know, playing flag football with the math faculties because, you know, as a physics major, you also take a lot of math. So like, I had classes with all the faculty that I was playing flag football with.

00:52:06.730 - 00:52:20.440

The physics faculty never joined. They were—none of them were particularly athletic. So, but like–like, at that time, they hired two new faculty in the math department, they were pretty

00:52:21.190 - 00:52:33.960

relatively young, they were probably in their early 30 and–and they, they were really into sports. So–so we would play flag football, and we would play soccer sometime.

00:52:34.380 - 00:52:51.280

And occasionally the math depart—the faculty, the math faculty would, like, get one of their, like, calculus student who's on the football team to come and play. And that was, that was interesting, because, like, you know, we're just a bunch of like, physics and math—not

00:52:51.410 - 00:53:06.050

you know, generalize, but for most part, we are not, like, overly athletic. And I remember I was covering this guy who was in the football team. And–and–and I was covering him, and

00:53:06.490 - 00:53:16.030

he–and he was running, and I'm running toward him, he caught the ball, and he shifted direction. And I couldn't, like I was just shocked. Like, I didn't know people could

00:53:16.030 - 00:53:30.560

change direction that fast. Like, she shifted, and I was still moving the same direction,I was. I was, like—so–so that was unfair, but it was fun. Yeah, that sounds like a lot of fun.

00:53:30.940 - 00:53:43.970

And are you still in touch with like, any of your friends from college? Yeah, some of them. My roommates for my first three years. So actually, like, for—I stayed on

00:53:43.970 - 00:54:00.220

campus all four years. Some people leave, but like–like I said, I have like scholarship, so I didn't have to pay. So there wasn't like, I didn't need to save money on the housing. So for the first three years, I had the

00:54:00.280 - 00:54:14.530

same roommate, which also was someone I knew from high school. So–so–so when I was going to Trinity, I knew that this other guy was going to Trinity and it was like, you know, so we weren't like great

00:54:14.530 - 00:54:29.140

friends at the time, but, you know, we knew each other, he didn't bother me. So I was like, let's let's room together and that worked out, and then the senior year, he, you know, he moved off campus, so I just have

00:54:29.180 - 00:54:43.240

some random guy, who was also, was actually interesting. His dad turned out to be a physicist, but he was an accountant or something. But, so I stayed in touch with my roommate for, you know,

00:54:43.720 - 00:54:52.500

because we really knew each other for a long time. I was–I was one of the groomsmen at his wedding, he was one my groomsmen at my wedding.

00:54:53.220 - 00:55:08.990

So—and he and his wife now lives in Danvers. And–and also another friend of mine, Tim. So Tim and I, so–so I

00:55:08.990 - 00:55:24.460

was a sophomore when Tim was applying, so we're two years different. So–so—but I was the first person that Tim met at Trinity when he came to visit, at

00:55:24.650 - 00:55:37.730

least in the physics department. And–and–and so I came to Rice for–for–for PhD, Tim came to Rice at PhD.

00:55:38.860 - 00:55:55.260

So–so we really like track each other. And then–and then Tim's advisor moved to Dartmouth, maybe three years into his PhD, so he moved to Dartmouth. And then I, and–and

00:55:57.800 - 00:56:13.030

then, you know, we were at different places, I graduated, and then I did a postdoc. But Tim, in the meantime, had came back to Rice to work, in a position that I was, eventually I would take,

00:56:14.800 - 00:56:24.600

and then he transitioned to a different job. So he's still working at Rice, and then, and then I came back to Rice and then I took the job. And I, you know, now I'm in a different job.

00:56:25.070 - 00:56:36.940

So, so Tim and I really, like, we kid that we've known each other—at some point, we've known each other half of our lives, but now we've known each other most of our life.

00:56:38.110 - 00:56:57.390

And so like, he's like, I'm actually his son's godfather, so you know, so yeah, and then, so yeah. So those

00:56:57.390 - 00:57:09.700

are two main people that I still, you know, pretty much keep in touch with from–from–from Trinity. I still keep in touch with the lady that were—that has

00:57:10.730 - 00:57:24.110

the t–shirt business. So–so her name is Lois. And–and she's like, she's amazing. So like, she's one of those people that have to have 20 different things going on at the same time.

00:57:24.740 - 00:57:40.750

And so–so, you know, she was running—like when we were in–in Trinity, she was running—she was going to college, she was running a small business, and she was working at–at a

00:57:40.750 - 00:57:54.420

country store. Because she and her husband live way out. Like her commute is ridiculous, like an hour or an hour and a half. And she did three majors, she did physics, chemistry, and business.

00:57:55.890 - 00:58:10.490

And, you know, I know! It's like, you know, and then–and then after she graduated, she started working at this semiconductor plant, so she was like a quality control

00:58:10.950 - 00:58:24.710

manager. And then—and she stay in the company, this company change owner, but she stay in the same, like, company as they got bought or sold. And now she's some—she's still an engineer there.

00:58:25.410 - 00:58:39.460

But in the meantime, she had bought the grocery—the country grocery store that she used to work at. So now she own the grocery store. And then like they live out in the country, so they like, I guess mainly, her

00:58:39.460 - 00:58:54.400

husband, like, have started like, a small farm. Like she—because she owned the grocery store. And the grocery store out in country is also the post office. So like someone have like shipped some like heritage duck, like

00:58:54.500 - 00:59:06.040

chicks. And they didn't claim it or something. So like, they took it home. And then they started like raising chickens. And so yeah,

00:59:06.040 - 00:59:17.150

so–so the last time I talked to Lois, she was thinking of, like, she bought the land across the road from the country store. And she's gonna develop it into a restaurant.

00:59:18.050 - 00:59:30.510

I mean, this is just, like–like, she has to have like so many things going on at the same time, so. Yeah, it sounds like she's just like doing it all. Yeah, that's very impressive.

00:59:31.690 - 00:59:50.420

So like, what inspired you to pursue not only physics, but also a career path in education and physics? So–so like because I started off in engineering, so–so I remember like, it was an in—engineering was

00:59:50.470 - 01:00:04.020

interesting, but it seems like my engineering, my—I mean, it probably changed, but like, it probably got gotten better as I progressed through the program, but I remember like thinking my freshman year, the

01:00:04.020 - 01:00:19.750

engineering, like, classes were—the problems that we–we do were really, like, monotonous. They were all fairly sim—like similar to each other. And I think, I mean, I guess maybe that is the hallmark of

01:00:19.750 - 01:00:33.680

engineering education, you sort of, like, look at all variation of some system. I just didn't, it just didn't click, that I didn't really want to do that. My physics class were more varied, because it's, you know,

01:00:34.040 - 01:00:45.470

like—I mean, I understand it now, right, because this is sort of like introductory physics. So you try to cover as many things as possible. And I thought that was more interesting, because you, you know, you go

01:00:45.470 - 01:00:59.500

from like, electricity, you go to optics, and you go to, like, mechanics, you build stuff. So I thought that was more fun. And–and I also remember, like, I have an engineering

01:01:00.200 - 01:01:13.440

professor my freshman year. And he's–he's a nice guy. He used to be a colonel in the Air Force. And–and he was, I remember talking to him, like, with a

01:01:13.440 - 01:01:28.250

group of students about like, you know, engineering, like what major to pursue. And–and he said, like, well, you shouldn't, you know, everyone, you know, all of you should be engineers, you should be a mechanical engineer because that's where he was.

01:01:28.250 - 01:01:44.880

Because you get to build stuff, and like, you know, he has this big, you know, things—I guess this speech he'd always give. And–and then he's like, you know, and I don't know, like, maybe I asked him about physics.

01:01:44.880 - 01:01:54.640

And he's like, well, you—no one should, you know, you shouldn't take, you shouldn't major in physics, unless you want to teach high school. And I remember that sort of rubbed me the wrong way.

01:01:55.670 - 01:02:10.790

And that's also contributed to why I gave up engineering. So–so, yeah, so–so then that's why, you know, both because I thought physics were interesting, and I guess that conversation stuck with me as like, I don't–I

01:02:11.570 - 01:02:30.900

don't like that dismissiveness. So that's why I–I–I decided to be a physics major my sophomore year. And–and I think like, like I said, like, the reason why I–I pursue it, just like the reason why I started,

01:02:30.900 - 01:02:46.580

is I just think it's interesting. It's a lot of fun, there's different, so many different things you can, you know, study with really the same set of tool. Like, a lot of things in physics, across seemingly really

01:02:46.670 - 01:03:04.670

different area, it could be like biology, or like, computer chips. And–and you really use the same mathematic—you can use the similar mathematical tool to understand them, you just sort of have to look at them in a different angle.

01:03:05.610 - 01:03:19.310

And I thought that was just the neatest thing, 'cause, you know, there's some uniting thread between everything, like it gives sort of a—I think a psychological comfort to know that, you know, somehow

01:03:20.110 - 01:03:32.620

everything could be make–make to make sense, at least in some– some way. I mean, obviously, the world is the world. I mean, there's no why more reason

01:03:32.620 - 01:03:45.060

to most things. But–but–but how you perceive it could give you a sort of matter organization that you can impose on the world to sort of help you navigate it.

01:03:46.140 - 01:03:57.460

So, yeah, I mean, like, I–I don't know, like, I never subscribe to the idea. I think a lot of people starting physics feel like, this is just the pursuit of truth.

01:03:58.310 - 01:04:12.590

I never really thought that was the case. I just thought it was just neat to be able to describe things. Um, so, and, you know, I still don't believe that this is the truth. I mean, I don't think...

01:04:13.360 - 01:04:26.070

Anyway, um, so–so–so I thought my education in Trinity was great. I mean, like, it was a small program, everyone know everybody, and

01:04:26.790 - 01:04:41.150

you just go to the fa–professors anytime. And you, like, you know, you have a question, you sit down, you talk and then sometime has to do with the class, sometime you just ask something you heard on the news.

01:04:42.000 - 01:04:53.760

And I get research with one of the professor there, I actually did radio astronomy. Um, it was interesting. You spent a lot of time on the computer,

01:04:54.740 - 01:05:08.900

which I think also—I mean, it was interesting, but also made me not want to do pursue that. So that's the value in sort of doing research as an undergraduate, you know, maybe you find like what you really love,

01:05:08.960 - 01:05:24.750

but also it helps you find what you don't actually want to do. So–so–so–so then, yeah, so I finished my physics program and–and despite what, like a lot of physics

01:05:24.890 - 01:05:37.860

pr— like department claim, there really isn't that much to do with a physics bachelor degree. And, I mean—I mean, I think there might be more now, with

01:05:39.450 - 01:05:55.020

like—with like more IT-type, computer-type things. But when I graduated, I—you know, there weren't like a lot of like, things that I think would be interesting for me to pursue that wouldn't require me to go to graduate school.

01:05:56.220 - 01:06:08.160

So and–and I really didn't plan on not going to graduate school. So– so that works out. So–so–so–so–so I applied to graduate school, again I

01:06:08.160 - 01:06:20.670

didn't apply to that many. I applied to, again, I think I applied to three. I applied to UT Austin, I applied to Rice, and I applied to University of Maryland.

01:06:22.300 - 01:06:34.550

And they were all great programs. I guess, having been to a small school, I kind of wanted to try bigger schools. So that's why I applied to UT and–and University of

01:06:34.550 - 01:06:50.640

Maryland. So I got accepted to UT, and Rice this time, didn't get waitlisted. Actually, I was—I–I–I sent in my application to Rice on like Friday, and I got my acceptance on like Monday. So I was like, that make me

01:06:50.640 - 01:07:06.110

feel good. And–and–and–and I didn't get accepted to Maryland, so I did get a job interview later on. So again, what do you know? Ah, so–so again, it was between—now it was between

01:07:06.510 - 01:07:18.300

Rice and UT. And I actually did went to UT to visit this time to just, you know, talk to people. And I think it would have been a good–good program.

01:07:18.300 - 01:07:33.290

But I also came to Rice and I did like Rice better. So that was more of a—I guess the graduate school decision was more of a rational decision than my undergraduate decision that, you

01:07:33.290 - 01:07:46.550

know, in undergraduate I just didn't want to go to a big school, but this time actually, you know, weighted the–the differences and–and I just thought the–the research at Rice were more interesting for what I was,

01:07:47.180 - 01:08:02.290

you know, what I wanted to do. And, so I came to Rice. Um, so–so for the most part, I think, throughout graduate school, my plan was to be a

01:08:03.130 - 01:08:14.590

tenure faculty. I think that–that's sort of the plan. So, in—I didn't really do a lot of teaching, there was some like lab,

01:08:15.850 - 01:08:33.660

teaching assistant requirement for the graduate program, but that's fairly minimal. And I didn't really pursue it, except for one time. I was asked by one of the faculty that was teaching Solid State Physics if I

01:08:33.660 - 01:08:44.050

would take his class. So this faculty visit—like, he travels a lot. So like, you know, a lot of time he would ask his postdoc or his graduate student to help.

01:08:44.360 - 01:08:59.670

But that one day, I guess, his graduate student postdoc was doing something else. So he asked me to help and I–I thought, well, yeah, sure, I'll try it. And–and–and–and I spend quite a bit of time preparing it, and I taught the

01:08:59.670 - 01:09:10.170

class and I thought it was a good experience. I enjoyed it. I enjoyed the preparation and I enjoyed, you know, giving the lecture.

01:09:11.580 - 01:09:28.430

And so–so then–so then I–I follow, you know, sort of the normal trajectory, when you want to be a tenured faculty is you–you do a postdoc, so I went to do a postdoc at a national lab. So at–at Maryland.

01:09:29.070 - 01:09:39.190

And there was no teaching, you know, there you just work for the government. And that was a great experience. I–I–I was able to be much more independent.

01:09:39.680 - 01:09:54.620

And I got some fairly nice work done and publishing fairly good journals. And then–and then I got a faculty—I got a tenure track job at University of Memphis after my postdoc, and, you

01:09:55.370 - 01:10:04.410

know, so that's a tenure track position. But—I guess I never have been taught in a state school. I didn't quite understand like, the expectation.

01:10:05.910 - 01:10:15.730

So–so–so–so when I went to Memphis, they will like—so they gave me the first semester off for teaching. So as I was setting up lab, which was actually great.

01:10:16.270 - 01:10:33.280

Not so great was that they didn't give me enough the money that I was supposed to get. So it's kind of like hard to set up a lab, when you don't have the money that they ask you. But, uh, so then I start teaching my second semester there.

01:10:34.030 - 01:10:51.240

And, and I really did enjoy teaching, and I was teaching two classes a semester. And then I was teaching summer school to supplement my income. And, and that's when I had the most

01:10:51.300 - 01:11:10.670

teaching, and that's why I sort of develop as a teacher. And, and, and because I taught as it is, this is not a good way to develop your, your junior faculty, but like, when I was in Memphis, anytime anybody was on

01:11:10.820 - 01:11:27.250

sabbatical, they assigned me to teach the class. So I want of having to two write new class, like, you have to develop a class, like, you can't just, you know, walk in, like, so. So, so I was constantly having to

01:11:27.390 - 01:11:42.690

develop new curriculum, new classes. But when it got me was that, like, I, I basically taught the entire undergraduate curriculum, in, in the physics program.

01:11:44.100 - 01:11:58.680

And, and then like, and then I got married. And then I have, I was expecting my firstborn. And I look around, and like, I really don't picture myself raising a family in Memphis.

01:11:59.510 - 01:12:13.820

I mean, like, the job was okay. And I think I probably would have been able to squeeze by and get tenure, I gotten some grand and some publication. But, um, but, like Memphis is,

01:12:14.510 - 01:12:30.430

is a very segregated city. Like, it's, it's just, it's just a really strange environment. Like, you have people that grew up in Memphis, and never stray away from basically,

01:12:32.620 - 01:12:50.460

like, north and south of the central world. Because that's where the predominant, like the, the white population lives. And, you know, I remember talking to the lady and like, you know,

01:12:50.460 - 01:13:00.290

there's like, this international grocery store that's several, well south of, of the central world. And she's like, I never been there.

01:13:00.320 - 01:13:16.320

I never been down to that, whoa. And she lived in this in Memphis, like most of her life. So, I mean, you know, the people I met in Memphis are great, but-but I just don't see

01:13:16.320 - 01:13:29.500

myself raising a family there. And then when there was a position that open up at Rice, it’s a teaching position. So it's no longer a tenure-track position. But it's–it's a sole–solely teaching position.

01:13:29.500 - 01:13:40.820

And I was like–like–like, I like it. I want to do it. So then I came to Rice. And then yeah, I mean, like–like, it was like, the first position I got was actually a

01:13:40.820 - 01:13:57.880

temporary position. And–and I, in some ways, just take a leap of faith, in some ways, kind of odd for someone to take a tenure-track faculty position, and leave it for basically a—you know—a two year job,

01:13:57.950 - 01:14:11.220

but I was like, I think I could make it work. And it has, I'm still here after nine years. And now I have, you know, not a tenure faculty position, but is, you know, a permanent position

01:14:11.220 - 01:14:25.700

as permanent as any other job outside of tenure could be, so. Great. And as like a physics professor, what does it like to interact with students who might be

01:14:25.700 - 01:14:41.480

pursuing like a future career path that's similar to yours? And do you see like a part of yourself within them? So–so I guess I'll answer that a little bit by going back to how I start, like how I

01:14:41.480 - 01:14:53.940

taught classes when I started teaching at Memphis. So like, when I started teaching at Memphis, my idea was like, Okay, I'm gonna think back on all the good things that I got from my

01:14:54.420 - 01:15:07.710

teacher in undergrad. And I'm gonna think back and like honestly, things I wish they have done differently. And I'll just do that. And–and I did that for a while, and then I realized that–that's not

01:15:07.750 - 01:15:25.390

really a great way to teach, because it's really self center. And is like, I'm trying to teach to myself. And like, and–and that's not, you know, that's doesn't address inclusiveness, it doesn't address diversity.

01:15:25.390 - 01:15:43.400

It's just like, you know, like, if I'm sitting in that room, this is how I want to be taught, so everything is about me. And over time, I kind of like evolve away from that. And I think, you know, what would be the best for this student?

01:15:43.730 - 01:15:58.170

What would be the best for this group of students? And so–so–so that's how I sort of have approached teaching as I evolved as a teacher. And–and–and, like,

01:15:59.310 - 01:16:14.690

and that's how I talk to students like I, you know, I don't—like a student interested in physics, you know, I don't like, "So you have to follow this path." It's you know, it's like, what is it that you really want to do?

01:16:14.870 - 01:16:28.430

Like, do you want to be a tenured faculty? Do you want to work, you know, in a research lab, like, there's different things we could talk about, like, you know, just sometime is just like, is this really what you want

01:16:28.500 - 01:16:47.620

to do? Or is it something that, you know, you thought you wanted to do, but have you thought it through? And so, yeah, so I guess it helps as a teacher to not to move away from yourself and try to sort of think

01:16:48.820 - 01:17:05.220

about the people that you—the student that you actually talking to. I think, like, as if—when I first started teaching, I just imagine every student I'm talking to is just a younger version of me, which is probably not

01:17:05.300 - 01:17:24.120

the case. So. Yeah. And so like, in your classes, have you also noticed any, like, disparities between the number of, like male or female students, or the number of Asian and non–Asian students?

01:17:26.180 - 01:17:44.070

It has gotten better. I think the–the ratio actually are close to 50–50, at least in the intro class. Then just when I started, which is not that long ago, I mean, on the grand scheme of things, I mean, I started,

01:17:44.420 - 01:17:59.290

you know, teaching at Rice nine years ago. I think the–the–the disparity between the gender—the–the male and female split, you know, have gotten much closer to 50–50.

01:17:59.440 - 01:18:16.350

I mean, I think in the biology—the class that's tailored for bio-bio majors and in pre-meds that is actually predominantly female now because majority of medical school students are now female.

01:18:17.850 - 01:18:33.650

Um, as far as like, Asians and non–Asian, I guess, I haven't seen a shift. I mean, like, I think that the proportion of Asian

01:18:34.100 - 01:18:49.140

student in my class is commensurate with the proportion of Asian student at Rice. So, I mean, so is, you know, is higher than the general population, but, you know, it's not the majority.

01:18:50.840 - 01:19:06.530

So, yeah. Yeah, that makes sense. And, like, from interacting with your own students, have you learned anything about like, any differences between students nowadays versus in your own college years? Hmm.

01:19:07.550 - 01:19:28.590

I mean, I think like... I think at the core of it, students are still the same. I mean, I feel like, like, you know, there's-there’s

01:19:30.890 - 01:19:47.570

different like technology, like, you know, when I was going to school, like, we just started to have internet. Well, maybe not, I mean, we start— we have email, but it was email on like, this sort of, like, command line email, like,

01:19:48.010 - 01:20:03.150

it's like, you log on to this terminal, and it's like, everything is green. And–and there, you know, there was no Facebook, there was no social media. It was, you know, people—you make friends by just,

01:20:03.700 - 01:20:16.850

you know, meeting people in person. Like, I guess Facebook came out probably like my senior year and like–like, during my graduate school.

01:20:17.510 - 01:20:33.780

I mean, I remember when I joined Facebook, it was still exclusive. It was still like, you have to have either an Ivy League email address or some scattering of school, like Rice was one of them, after they expanded out of

01:20:33.850 - 01:20:54.160

the Ivy League. So–so–so like, my college year predate, you know, the widespread in like–like social media. Um, but I think, I mean, I feel that the students are not that different

01:20:55.260 - 01:21:10.800

internally. I mean, they, you know, they meet friends differently to interact with each other differently, but, you know, they still, you know, study the same way, they still procrastinate the same way, they still

01:21:10.800 - 01:21:27.930

have the same stress level. I mean—I mean, I feel like, it's much more acceptable now to–to talk openly about, like, mental issues, and like

01:21:28.310 - 01:21:43.210

how stressed you are, and–and–and not boast about how many nights you stay up. I mean, I think there's probably—people still do all those things, they still cover up, you know, the mental

01:21:43.250 - 01:21:59.920

issues, and they still boast about, like, staying up five nights, you know, to finish this project. So–so, but, you know, it's more acceptable now to talk about, you know, going to a

01:21:59.920 - 01:22:11.210

therapist, or going to counselors. So–so, but again, the people haven't changed, like, when I was going to school, there's—you know, their classmate that have

01:22:11.250 - 01:22:24.440

mental illness. They just didn't address them. So–so–so I guess, in that respect it's better. It could still be better, I think—I think, you know,

01:22:25.410 - 01:22:38.700

um, I mean, certainly this past year haven't helped anybody on the mental health issues. So, yeah, so–so–so overall, I think it's probably

01:22:39.910 - 01:22:55.330

the same for things that are important. Yeah I see, and also, like, how have you found the best way to inspire your own students? Like, especially those pursuing physics.

01:22:58.760 - 01:23:12.350

Best inspire students... I mean, I feel like, each student is different. I mean, like, and–and–and as a teacher, I—there's—there's not some,

01:23:12.350 - 01:23:30.650

like, magical thing that you say, like–like–I sort of like, sometime I talk to other people about teaching and like, I feel like, sometimes people have this sort of magical phrase fallacy. They think that, like, you're teaching something, if you just say, just

01:23:30.650 - 01:23:43.560

magical phrase, tveryone will understand, no matter what you you know, you could be teaching quantum mechanics, you just say, say this, this topic in this magical way, then like, everyone, what, because that's not true.

01:23:43.560 - 01:23:55.190

Like, everyone learns different way and different things. So–so I don't—like, I guess my answer is, I don't really know what inspires students.

01:23:56.710 - 01:24:11.830

Because, like, looking back, I don't really know what inspired me. I mean, it's just—not like one thing it's just, you know, I think, you know, try to teach the material well, is the best I could do.

01:24:12.770 - 01:24:30.100

I mean—I mean, like so... yeah, I mean, you can connect things together, which was what I think is the most interesting part of physics, like you know, you've had some—you

01:24:31.450 - 01:24:44.720

talking about certain thing and then you jump to a different topic, and then you say, "But wait, you can like look at it the same—the two things and they are actually the same." Like–like the classical—like, the thing that

01:24:45.040 - 01:24:59.640

you would do like in introductory physics is–is to sort of show that like, things that are moving in circle and move things that are oscillating back and forth are actually mathematically equivalent.

01:25:00.160 - 01:25:13.800

If you just look at an in the, in the right way. So that's kind of neat, because you know, and initially, when you look at it, just looking at something going circling something going back and forth, they don't seem to be the same.

01:25:13.800 - 01:25:24.630

And, and there's a lot of that in physics that you can sort of tease out. I mean, I tried to do that to some extent. But since-since I

01:25:24.670 - 01:25:40.950

teach the intro class, there's just a lot of material to cram into a very short amount of time. So-so for the most part, I just tried to make things clear to steer them. And, like, I try to introduce things that

01:25:41.270 - 01:25:59.050

are sort of extracurricular to show student, there's more to physics than the stuff we do. Because like, intro physics, like student don't realize it for most part when they taking it, but if they progressed

01:25:59.050 - 01:26:14.250

to, like engineering and in physics, I think they often see look back and intro physics is that intro physics actually, is not. This is not much there, there.

01:26:14.450 - 01:26:28.590

There's not much like challenging things in intro physics course, most students would disagree that it is quite challenging when they're going through it. But for the most part, intro physics is really about

01:26:29.510 - 01:26:45.720

following in some, in some ways, following instruction, like you read a problem, and there's a certain way you interpret that word, those words, and you translate it into a picture, and then you translate the picture into an equation.

01:26:46.320 - 01:27:01.040

And then you use, you know, just algebra, and sometimes calculus, and you turn the crank. So a lot of physics, intro physics is at its core descriptive, even though you're solving a problem, you

01:27:01.670 - 01:27:13.680

are that really requires you is to do a translation, from words to a picture. So I always recommend students actually draw a physical picture. But this seems

01:27:13.700 - 01:27:25.500

to be a lost cause soon just don't like to draw pictures, they want to go straight to an equation, which is misses, I think it misses the point. But, like, so.

01:27:25.500 - 01:27:43.080

So is it. So a lot of intro physics and in some sense, a lot of what you do in, as an undergraduate in science, is just learning that translation. And, and it's not that interesting, you think about it, like, you know, if you

01:27:44.070 - 01:27:56.780

if you're learning, you know, a foreign language, if all the time you do are just translating words without actually like speaking to people, it's not really that fun.

01:27:57.060 - 01:28:14.420

So–so–so I tried to sort of add extra stuff to the curriculum to sort of show that like–like, physics is not just doing this sort of translation and over and over again, like–like, you know, I think like, in the old days, when

01:28:14.420 - 01:28:30.410

people like what translation, you know, Julius Caesar and Cicero from Latin, it's like—I mean, you–you need to do it, you need to learn if you don't, you know, learn Latin, you need to do it, you need to do physics and engineering, you need to learn it.

01:28:30.630 - 01:28:39.060

But that's not—that's not what's fun about physics. That's not what interesting about engineering. It's just—this is what you need to

01:28:39.060 - 01:28:56.570

be able to do to get to the fun and interesting things. Right, yeah, that makes sense. And also with, like, technology advancing so much, have you found that you've got the opportunity to work together with other departments at Rice,

01:28:56.570 - 01:29:12.410

or maybe even other universities or industries? I mean, I–I guess, I benefit a lot in how I think about teaching from my interaction with the biology—the teaching faculties in

01:29:12.460 - 01:29:29.880

the biology—bioscience department, because like bioscience have—like their department as a whole, but also like their core teaching faculty have been thinking much more deeply. And they've been engaging with the student and the–the

01:29:29.880 - 01:29:45.610

curriculum a lot longer than physics, like, you know, they've been doing it 10 plus years. With, you know, in physics, we just sort of been just start and stop and really haven't really progressed

01:29:45.870 - 01:29:59.450

as much as the—as the bioscience department. So–so I've benefited a lot from just talking and just understanding how they teach their classes in the bioscience department.

01:30:00.650 - 01:30:14.740

Yeah, and–and I talked to some colleagues in the engineering departments, but not to the same extent as the bioscience and, you know, just to just get us a sense of how different department teaches classes.

01:30:15.330 - 01:30:30.340

So, I mean, though I don't know, really, technology has to do with it, it's just, you know, you–you–you–you give an opportunity to interact with people, and then you–you short a ticket.

01:30:31.290 - 01:30:47.450

I mean, there are more this past year, I guess, because of everyone's on zoom. The department has, you know, been on more sort of, with

01:30:48.340 - 01:31:05.240

the National Physics, sort of organization to learn more about inclusivity and diversity, and not have been helpful to just get more voices into the conversation.

01:31:05.970 - 01:31:20.860

So, so I think that is actually helpful to, you know, with–with Zoom is a lot easier to just, you know, hear what other people have said, and just, you know, attend a panel with, you know,

01:31:21.520 - 01:31:39.770

five, eight experts in, on the topic. Like back before zoom, or before people everyone did, you really, you know, learn about these things, you have to sort of actively travel to places.

01:31:40.340 - 01:31:55.060

So it really lower the barrier for people to learn about inclusitivity and diversity because I think before this last year, these are not inclusive–inclusive

01:31:57.250 - 01:32:09.510

like, diversity issues, were thought to be important, but not something that people actively try to pursue. I mean, I'm not, you know,

01:32:09.510 - 01:32:26.490

that's not just indictment to like Physics Department. It's—I think that's in general across, you know, the country. So–so–so I think, you know, that–that helps that have technology have helped in that respect.

01:32:28.760 - 01:32:46.470

I see. And, like on the topic of diversity, being an Asian American yourself, have you ever experienced any instances of discrimination as a Chinese American professor? No, I mean, I don't—I don't think so.

01:32:46.650 - 01:33:00.610

As a—as a—as a faculty, I don't—I mean—I mean, the university environment is, in certain respects, very insular. I mean, in certain respects, it's not, I mean, you

01:33:00.610 - 01:33:18.270

know, students still get exposed to all sorts of things here as they would any other environments, and the faculty as well. But being at Rice, or even being in Memphis, I have not felt that being Asians

01:33:19.340 - 01:33:31.500

were in any way any impediment–impediment, or having felt like discriminated against. But having said that, I guess

01:33:31.560 - 01:33:53.310

it's–it's a little odd being Asian in America, in that a lot of things we don't—you internalize how the culture is, and–and like, it really takes someone else to look at the situation to whether it is

01:33:53.310 - 01:34:07.250

discriminatory or not. And I feel the same way when I'm talking with my friend who's–who's–who's–who's Black. You know, he talked about, you know, things that happen—he's also a physics faculty.

01:34:07.990 - 01:34:21.830

And–and I was like, “that's racist”. And he's like, “really?”. Yeah. So–so I feel like you know, when you're in it, in–in that particular situation, being who you are,

01:34:22.980 - 01:34:41.840

and having grown up in the–in the culture, it's hard to like really like unless someone just come out and use a racial slur. You kind of like, you know, it doesn't—it doesn't register. So–so as far as I could—I consciously

01:34:43.860 - 01:34:59.520

notice I have not been discriminated against as a faculty. I see. And that's also a really good point like about the internalization. So more about Rice, when did you become a Head Residential Associate at Hanszen?

01:35:01.820 - 01:35:15.580

Well, technically I became the Head Residential Associate on July 1st. So–so I have not actually done anything, I haven't even move in.

01:35:15.720 - 01:35:32.020

But, yes. I see. What are you like looking forward to the most about being in this role? I mean, just interacting with the students and seeing how my family interact with the students.

01:35:33.530 - 01:35:50.360

And just being helpful. I mean, like, when I was interviewing for the position, like, they asked, like, why do you want to do this? And I–I guess, I want—I feel like, I see the students sort of on only one side

01:35:51.410 - 01:36:03.200

of their life, right? The academic side. And I feel like, you know, that I could be useful on the other side, where

01:36:03.200 - 01:36:23.460

like, with more like mental support, or just, you know, mentoring that outside of like, an academic. So–so–so I guess I'm—I want to be sort of a complete package for the student as opposed to

01:36:23.460 - 01:36:38.520

just on the academic side. So that's what I'm looking forward to is to sort of expand my–my mentorship to students, if they want it, to, you know, just fill out that part of their lives.

01:36:40.820 - 01:36:52.760

Yeah, that's really good. And so as an RA, like you, you'll be living with your family, like on campus. So could you tell me a bit about like, your parenting philosophy?

01:36:56.900 - 01:37:12.970

So, I think, my parenting philosophy is, I–I like my children to question things.

01:37:13.900 - 01:37:31.850

So–so–so I think, in some way, I pursued that to the... so then I, but I don't discipline them as much

01:37:32.610 - 01:37:43.910

as maybe, I mean, certainly not as much as my parent—my mom did. But I don't know, like, I really want them to be questioning people.

01:37:45.010 - 01:37:59.770

So–so sometime, like if they, you know, if they do certain thing, that, you know, or they try to do something that I know doesn't work, or if they could probably break something, as long as

01:38:00.060 - 01:38:12.800

it's safe, I sort of–sort of stand back and let them do it, and then—and then I try to explain to them why it didn't work, if it doesn't work. And I try to make it as—as

01:38:19.530 - 01:38:36.970

low pressure for them as possible. And like, you know, that they don't feel like they're—they need to be afraid of trying things, and trying new things. And yeah, I mean, I think for the most part, they—you

01:38:37.870 - 01:38:51.390

know, they–they're pretty open to things. I mean, there's sort of, you know, different kid—that, you know, different people have different personalities. So I think like, you know, some—like one of my kids might be more timid

01:38:51.470 - 01:39:08.460

than the other one. Um, so–so I guess, you know, I mean, certainly I want them to be kind and loving. So–so I guess, when I first was

01:39:08.580 - 01:39:25.620

planning to be a parent, and then now that I'm a parent three times, it's—I want my children to know that they are loved. I think that's ultimately what I want—that's

01:39:25.620 - 01:39:40.000

my principle, if there is one. So that like, they–they don't need to be—I don't, you know, I don't think they need to be happy all the time because that's oppressive.

01:39:40.810 - 01:39:57.560

I don't think they need to, you know, love everyone, because no one can love everyone. But they should, at least, like everyone or at least tolerate people. But I want them to always feel that, like my wife and I

01:39:57.620 - 01:40:11.270

loved them, no matter what, unconditionally. And I want them to explored what they interested in, trying new things.

01:40:12.370 - 01:40:25.030

And—I mean, that's ideal. That's what—I mean. And of course, in practice, I don't know, you know, how well that works for them, because they're still relatively young.

01:40:25.440 - 01:40:44.020

I think—I mean, there's certain thing with my kids, I feel like, why are they fearful of failure, for example, like, we never penalize them for failure, but I think part of it is just, they—that's just human nature, we don't like to have things that you

01:40:44.940 - 01:41:00.290

want to do be not working out. So–so that's something that like, I—you know, my wife and I, you know, are trying to work on is like, how to get our kids do not be afraid to fail.

01:41:01.290 - 01:41:17.180

And also not being, you know, self–centered arrogant people. I mean, I think that's sort of a fine line. I mean—I can, if you are a complete narcissist, then you, you know, you by definition, never fail, because you fail, you just rationalize it.

01:41:17.840 - 01:41:33.680

But that's not what we want. We want our kids to–to–to explore things and not fear failures, but when they fail, that they learn from it. And I think, you know, by showing them unconditional love,

01:41:34.180 - 01:41:47.430

we try to help them achieve that. I think that's sort of our philosophy in–in–in–in raising our kids. But, you know, that's not always how it works

01:41:47.790 - 01:41:58.580

out in practice, but that's what we want. Yeah, for sure. I think that's a great like, balance to strive for. And so personally, like, what else do

01:41:58.580 - 01:42:18.740

you like to do outside of work, like any hobbies or interests like that? So, I mean, with three kids, I think most of your time outside of work are with the kids. So, like, I

01:42:18.740 - 01:42:34.210

read a lot, at least, I used to read a lot. Now I read—now I listen to audiobooks when I'm putting my kids to sleep and I also listen to podcasts. So a lot of things that you can do while you're doing something else

01:42:34.210 - 01:42:53.730

for your kids is come out to be. I mean, like my wife likes, and I likes to eat different food. So being in Houston, that's a—that's a great city to be in. I mean, even over the last year, we, you know, we

01:42:53.730 - 01:43:12.850

order out, I guess probably once a week just to, you know, to have some interaction, even if it's, you know, at a distance you still like, go in and grabs your food and go. Umm, so–so we liked, you know,

01:43:13.340 - 01:43:31.290

to—I mean, we both like traveling, of course we haven't traveled for the last years. But, like everybody else. And–and with little kids, it's harder to travel, but we do enjoy traveling. So, yeah, I mean, like, when my

01:43:31.290 - 01:43:48.590

kids were younger, I used to like, have these little electronic projects that I would get into and like, like just–just sort of nerdy thing like, you know, installing some different operating system on your computer,

01:43:48.700 - 01:44:03.810

just for the heck of it. And just messing around, like making a web server and things– things are like you can look up on the internet, and then you can sort of play around with. So, um,

01:44:05.850 - 01:44:23.380

yeah, I mean, so I guess that's sort of the extent of outside hobbies, outside of work. Yeah, that's great. Thank you for sharing. And so our last segment of the interview is kind of focused

01:44:23.380 - 01:44:40.590

on COVID–19. So how has the pandemic—how has the pandemic like personally changed your life? It given me a whole lot more time with my family, which is––I think is a plus. Um, so–so,

01:44:42.680 - 01:44:58.680

I mean like part of––not the main motivation, that's only a contributing factor for us applying to be on the news. We live pretty far out in the suburbs, from–from–from the city. So–so my commute to school is usually an

01:44:58.770 - 01:45:13.380

hour. So that's two hours that, you know, just in commuting each, you know, every day when I was in person, and so–so that, you know, so course now that we're going to be living on campus, there's no

01:45:13.430 - 01:45:29.830

commute. So– so–so–so I think like, again, with parenting, I think a lot of it is just being there––just like, I think what––I mean, that's true for a lot of things with your job, with

01:45:30.140 - 01:45:42.130

being an RA, being a parent, a lot of it is just being physically present for, you know,– for whoever you're doing it for, for your boss for your, you know, for the student, for the kids.

01:45:43.220 - 01:45:59.820

So–so–so I think that has possibly contributed to like––and yeah, I mean, I think certainly you know, is–is–is

01:46:02.720 - 01:46:16.970

odd year for my kid. They so–so we tried to––we tried––so–so my–my–my son would be––would start––would–would have started kindergarten and my

01:46:17.340 - 01:46:32.820

daughter would have started in third grade in the fall of 2020. We try the public school, home school––I mean the public school online for a week. And it was

01:46:32.920 - 01:46:49.620

impossible to do online school with a kindergartener because if you cannot read, you cannot really interact like on the computer. I mean, it really require either my wife or I sitting right next to him the entire

01:46:49.620 - 01:47:00.020

school day. So–so–so that, so we–we took him out of public school after one week. I don't think it even lasted one week––several day.

01:47:00.020 - 01:47:12.150

And–and then we just homeschooled them and I think that also have been great academically for my kids. So, especially my wife needs me––my–my support, but like she's the one that

01:47:12.150 - 01:47:31.130

really went all in with developing the curriculum, figuring out everything and I think they have progressed probably two grade level over the last year by homeschooling. So–so–so I mean––I think it has weigh on

01:47:31.130 - 01:47:47.370

them sort of mentally to be so isolated for last year, so that's a minus. So–so there's just they––I–I feel like they are––there's more confl-like just sort of interpersonal conflict with each other, just, you know,

01:47:47.410 - 01:48:01.880

because you've been sort of trapped with the same people for a year. So–so hopefully this coming fall when they go back to like school that will alleviate some of the tension that sort of have built up the last

01:48:01.940 - 01:48:16.650

year. So, I mean, me I feel like, you know, my wife and I've been close. I mean, we always been close, and, you know, now I don't have to, you know, leave is actually been great.

01:48:16.950 - 01:48:34.950

I mean, I guess you know, if you really loved the person you would—being in, you know, in quarantine is actually pretty good. So, I mean––I think, to me, at this moment in time, I feel like overall, it's been a

01:48:35.100 - 01:48:49.920

plus for me and my family, of course, you know, who knows, looking back, you know, in–in a year and two years, what the repercussion is because it's really no one really know what it does to a person or as a

01:48:49.920 - 01:49:04.370

society to have everyone sort of like living in, well, a lot of people living with you, and–and sort of be locked in for a year. And so with that sort of a

01:49:05.880 - 01:49:23.770

natural experiments, we have to see how it works out. So, um, I mean, also have worked out for us financially as a family with all the you know, because, you know, I keep my––I kept my job, actually got a promotion.

01:49:24.850 - 01:49:40.110

And–and then there's also all the extra money from the–from the relief fund. So–so, yeah, I mean, we are, at least on paper, I think we–we were––it–it was a

01:49:40.250 - 01:49:58.230

plus for–for our family in a lot of way, which of course is not the case for a lot of them. So we are with course' thankful for–for that. Yeah, it was––it's great that you were able to find some like op-at-optimistic aspects

01:49:58.470 - 01:50:10.960

in the pandemic. So like, as a professor teaching on Zoom, like, what do you think are some pros and cons of this–this new format? So,

01:50:14.900 - 01:50:33.020

I think the–the con is–is a lot of like, student who are not inclined to interact with each other are even less inclined to interact with each other. And I think––which is sort of

01:50:35.570 - 01:50:52.250

a––is bad because learning is really a social dynam-like is–is–is learning, I feel that learning is a–a–a–a communal experience, in that,

01:50:52.470 - 01:51:07.340

like, you–you really work off of each other when you're learning. I mean, they––there's–there's an individual aspect of it, like where you just sit and like read the book and do the homework, but a lot of like

01:51:07.440 - 01:51:21.320

learning new things, really, I feel most effective when you are in a study group or interacting with each other in–in class. And–and I feel like that for students who are more introverted or

01:51:21.320 - 01:51:38.740

less inclined to interact with other students this year on Zoom just make everything, you know, worse for them academically. So and I think, for certain student, I

01:51:38.890 - 01:51:55.090

think it you know, they–they–they still, you know, managed to find study groups, and they still managed to make friends over zoom. And, you know, of course, like I said before, who knows what the long term

01:51:55.090 - 01:52:07.730

repercussions of being sort of just isolated physically is, but I think, for that segment is still I mean, it was–it was fine. I mean, the

01:52:07.970 - 01:52:29.310

positive aspect, I feel like is that if they are so inclined, I think like, the lectures are in some way, clearer and better, because I pre-recorded them. So–so–so–so I have time to actually plan everything that I

01:52:29.310 - 01:52:44.690

say, and if I don't like what I'm saying, I could re–record. So–so–so they are––they're not like––it's not the best you can do, but probably better explanation than I would do in a normal one off lecture.

01:52:44.870 - 01:52:57.640

Because, like, sometimes you––sometimes you sort of, like you say something and then like a minute later is like, I wish I take it––you know I took that back, because now it's going to be confusing to everyone. And

01:52:57.640 - 01:53:10.070

then––but then if you like if you go back, and like it's even more confusing, so like––so but like, you know––but of course, there's a lot of like––the lectures, only a handful of student actually watch them.

01:53:10.070 - 01:53:26.210

Of course, that's true for in–person, they'd have to attend the class. But I think overall is a plus for students who are inclined to watch the video lectures because then they–they get a better version of it than I would normally give, just

01:53:26.210 - 01:53:40.130

because of, you know, I'm able to correct things and go back and change––make changes. And also they're able to, you know, stop in the middle, and then can go back and rewind and watch it over.

01:53:41.100 - 01:54:01.290

If there's something that they don't understand. Um, I mean, the––that, again, work for certain students, some student really want like, instant explanation, like if something they don't understand they want, like, raise a hand––and that's sort of––I tried to have that aspect as well in my class, or like this

01:54:01.490 - 01:54:16.090

recorded lectures, and then there's inc-like there's zoom meetings, but I–I tried to on-I only do that for my lecture. Well, I guess I do that twice. Like, I guess

01:54:16.090 - 01:54:33.900

I yeah, so–so–so the complaint of––for student is now, you know, they're in class twice the time that they would––like so–so, but, you know, and I guess my response would be don't know one actually say that

01:54:34.190 - 01:54:45.090

to––ask–– tell me that directly. But if they have–have my responses, like, technically, you don't have to do any of it. You can just do whichever makes sense to you.

01:54:45.810 - 01:54:59.180

Now, if doing all of those things actually help you then–then maybe that's what we should be doing even in person, that you should spend the time watching the video, like maybe reading the textbook.

01:55:00.210 - 01:55:15.570

So I mean, like academically, I really don't see any change for my class. So–so like, I–I do the majority of the–of the question like, the exam questions and like the

01:55:15.670 - 01:55:30.620

pledge assignments, I–I make them myself most––for the most part. Like, I would say for the fall semester is probably 99% of it for the spring semester

01:55:31.240 - 01:55:45.670

is more like 60% of it. But, um, but so–so–so I haven't, you know, so I didn't make any of the problems easier or harder, obviously.

01:55:46.260 - 01:56:01.440

And– and it's really the same kind of problem that I always give, because they vary from year to year. Because it's, you know, you can't give the same problem every year also be boring for me to not––anyway,

01:56:01.520 - 01:56:14.910

so–so the point is that the student grade haven't changed. So–so–so like, you know, sometime people like, a concern about cheating.

01:56:15.780 - 01:56:26.230

And I was like, I don't really see it. I mean, if they were cheating, then they're–they're not cheating any more than they have before. And I mean, you probably laugh, but like,

01:56:27.180 - 01:56:42.460

some of the–the–the–the exam quite low, but so they're cheating––they're really doing a poor job of cheating, in general. So–so I think like for most part, academically, at least, for our students, I

01:56:42.460 - 01:56:56.000

know it's probably different for like students in community college and like different school, but for our students that I interact with, I think, on the whole, they have not suffered academically in my class.

01:56:58.990 - 01:57:11.470

Yeah, those are all really good points. And also this year, we've seen like a huge spike in Asian hate crimes, in part due to like the xenophobic narrative surrounding COVID–19. So, what is like your personal take on that situation?

01:57:12.410 - 01:57:29.920

I mean, I feel that xenophobia is ever present in like a pluralistic society. And is–is

01:57:34.500 - 01:57:46.990

like I said before, like being in a university setting and being in quarantine, I really haven't personally experienced it. And but that doesn't say anything about anybody else's experience.

01:57:48.170 - 01:58:05.660

And–and I–I know––I mean I don't really know, like, whether it is more pervasive now than before the pandemic, or

01:58:06.080 - 01:58:25.230

is it just more like reported in some way? I mean like––I mean, the–the United States have a long history of xenophobia against Asian people all the way back to––I mean, basically, as soon as

01:58:25.230 - 01:58:43.810

there's enough Asian people for–for them to feel threatened, then there's been xenophobia against Asian people, like, you know, there's Chinese Exclusion Act there's–there's quotas on immigrations and there is certainly unequal punishment

01:58:45.830 - 01:58:55.060

for crime against Asian versus White. But of course, that's also true for other ethnic groups. So–so in the larger context of

01:58:55.160 - 01:59:09.260

things, I feel like that the–the East Asian hate crime probably may have increased, but I think it's just more visible.

01:59:10.490 - 01:59:25.520

So and, I mean, I guess hate crime is, you know, is bad, and any sort of discrimination is bad, but visibility is good.

01:59:26.630 - 01:59:41.480

Transparency is good. So if people see that there–there is xenophobia, if someone who lives in Middle America who has, you

01:59:41.480 - 01:59:59.440

know, really no interaction with Asian see that Asian hate crime is a problem in this country, I think overall that is good for the health of the public. Just–just, you know, because this country, you

02:00:00.190 - 02:00:14.300

know, go back to when I was talking about Memphis, or even like the university environment is, you know, is a pluralistic society, multicultural. But the tendency is to–is to cluster–cluster around

02:00:15.320 - 02:00:33.400

your own. So it's–it's–it's–it's really a missed opportunity for such a vibrant society to not take advantage of all the resources of human resources that we have just

02:00:35.070 - 02:00:54.660

to, you know, not even in a–in a capitalistic way just to just be better people just–just to learn from each other, and just understand how different peoples live. And of course, it's a benefit, I think there actually are

02:00:54.730 - 02:01:10.800

financial benefits to society as a whole––to take advantage of all the human resources that this country has. So, yes, America is a great is–is an––is a nation of great potential, I would say.

02:01:13.200 - 02:01:24.450

Yeah, that's a great perspective. Thank you for sharing. So that's actually all the questions I have prepared today. But if you have any other experiences, or anything that you'd like to share, you can feel

02:01:24.510 - 02:01:43.850

free. I mean, I guess like, their , you know, I guess not for my personal immigration–– immigrants experience or like Asian experience, I think like, it is,

02:01:44.610 - 02:02:05.020

might be interesting to know, like, my parents both influenced by immigrations in some––in–in their own way, like–like–like, my dad was not with me for

02:02:05.220 - 02:02:19.630

you know, most of my childhood, but for him actually is even is–is even worse between him and his father, he have actually never met his father. So like, but not like in sort of a abandonment

02:02:21.400 - 02:02:40.190

kind of way, but I mean I guess in some sense is a cultural way. So–so–so–so like, my great-grandfather moved to Costa Rica at some point as a young man because with the region where we're from is very poor

02:02:42.000 - 02:02:57.860

and–and–and he started a business there. And then when he was more established, he went back to his hometown, and he married and have two kids. And then he went back to Costa Rica because he needs to make a living.

02:02:58.940 - 02:03:12.890

And then when his two kids were old enough, they moved to Costa Rica. And then when my–my grandfather, you know, was growing up, he–he went to China––went back to hometown, China, marry have

02:03:13.120 - 02:03:26.920

kids, but he left before—while my–my–my dad was still, you know, in Eur-in Europe, and–and then he never were able to come back to China, he still send back money.

02:03:27.660 - 02:03:43.210

And then when my dad was old enough, or when he, you know, he got––he–he got married––had me and then he moved to––went to Costa Rica. And by that time, his dad had already died. So I think they missed––he missed by about a year or so.

02:03:44.080 - 02:04:00.120

So, and then, yeah, so–so–so that's also an immigrant story, too, that goes back for several generations. And I think that's, you know, not an immigrant story for, you know, America, but is in the

02:04:00.120 - 02:04:19.100

Americans, you know, the continent. So, and I think that's, you know, that's an interesting thing, just to note that, you know, that the Chinese have really, you know, for various, mainly econo-academ-for

02:04:21.330 - 02:04:39.910

many economic reason, have, you know, really been doing this immigration and being removed from their family for a very long time. Yeah, thank you so much for sharing that, and giving some perspective into that.

02:04:40.200 - 02:04:49.650

And also, thank you so much for agreeing to be interviewed by us and, yeah, have a great rest of your day. Okay, thank you, have a good day. You too. Bye.