Koon Hong Gor Lee oral history interview

We're here at Chinese Baptist Church on December 2nd 2017 at 10 o'clock in the morning. Um We're interviewing MK. Um I'm Priscilla, I'm Niki. And do we need to introduce ourselves? Ok. Uh My name is Tim Chan. My name is Mary Ann Young. I'm the daughter,

uh the eldest daughter, I'm Suzie Lee and my youngest daughter. Um So now we're going to start with the questions uh can you state where and when you were born? Oh OK. Uh She was born in uh Guangdong Province, Kaiping. That's, that is the district or

the county. And then uh K and then this would be if you write that's the direct in Chinese. So you can take a picture of that if you want. Thank you. Mhm And when were she born? Uh obviously from the uh record she was born in

uh 1931. Um How was the neighborhood you grew up? Like neighborhood, grew up as far as in China versus here like the childhood? Oh OK. So village consists of approximately 40. Now, she

went to elementary school uh during, before the Japanese attacked China. But after uh that's uh obviously all the way southern China. So it took the Japanese several years to get there. But after the Japanese got into Southern China occupation, she no longer able to go to

school, school was closed down. So she went all the way to middle of junior high school just one year, essentially completing seventh grade. She looks like a at that time by then, she was 16 years old and then she was married and no longer attend school.

Um, so like, what was school like back in China? The bridge middle school and the schools consist of 3 to 4 months. But it was, it was uh set up by the overseas Chinese sending money back to educate their descendants back there. Yeah. So was

it like a bilingual and like international education? Because founded by like, I, well, let me ask you uh how I at the seventh grade they start? So did she receive more education? Uh after she came to the States? Well, by the time she got here,

she was already married. So there is no longer, was it an arranged marriage? Was, was it an arranged marriage? Excuse me? They get for Nancy to my. Oh, they went to school? They know each other. Like what, like elementary school? That's that school that we just

talked about that. He was in uh ninth grade, ninth grade. She was in seventh. Yeah. Hm. Like, how many siblings did you have? And then, oh, ok. The younger the youngest brother is born in the United States. He's, he's a doctor right now at Longview, Texas.

And the, uh, the, the second brother actually served in the US army and he is in Houston. And, uh, if you might notice from the family tree picture, I mean, the, the information, the second brother is Jim Gore and then the third brother is Henry Gore.

Turning off. Yeah. Hm. So, like, what does, like the, 00, sorry. Uh So like, what did your parents do? They open a grocery store? II, I know them. Yeah, I know her parents. So like, why did they choose to come to the States? Yeah. Actually

her parents was the, the her grandparents immigrated to the United States first. So do you wanna start there or do you want to go to her parents? Um, maybe the grandparents? Ok. Uh Now, now individual, yeah, grandpa, grandparent grandfather come to the United States to build

the railroad at that time when you come, obviously under the Qing dynasty rule and they still have a pig tails. And that was one thing that was unusual. And then obviously when they got here, they had a cut to, to confirm to the conform to their

American way of life. That's her grandfather. So her grandfather come to the United States. At that time, the American rule will not permit you to bring a family. It's not that by choice, they would not allow you to bring and then, but

he was allowed to go back to China periodically. And the third year he came to the United States, he went back to China and uh conceived have a son and then have a second one before he came back. Uh obviously the second one was still in

the womb at that time. And then uh the, the her grandmother was still in China along with her at that time as well. You know, subsequently she obviously is a third generation from there. These are her father's parents in China. Yeah, that's her. Yeah, ***, ***,

*** 44, the grandparents have four offspring. Those first one died rather young and then the other three are so that, that they uh subsequently was brought home. Grandfather is three

brothers that came. So that's the first. So like how did her parents like come to the States during the San Francisco earthquake fire? A lot of document was destroyed. So uh her, her grandparents were able to reproduce the document and that's

her father came when he came, when he was 14 years old to the United States to join their Grand Angels Island. So they all go through the hardship of coming through Angels Island. Um So like her dad come like at the age of 14, uh so

like was she born in the States or like she went to OK, following the same process after they come to the United States work for a while. Male member can return to China because they cannot bring their family. So they repeat the same process, their grandfather

in which he went back to China. I mean 17 years old, got married and then have Children in China. So you can follow the same process that the male member can come to the United States. Only the male member can come, they cannot bring their family.

Uh During that time, the Chinese Exclusion Act was born in 1930 born in China as as part of the offspring of the return Chinese immigrants. Um Also what does she know about like her grandfather's work like the real world work? Yeah,

he was working on the West Coast in the in the railroads and then after the earthquake, he generally just said that it was very, very difficult and hard work, but they're not going into any much more. Yeah, not much details. Ok. She did not get any

detail how they immigrated from the West Coast all the way to Texas. She did not get that level of detail. Her uh her father was participated in the World War Two, the Philippine and he their, their ship was sunk and they not have to

swim ashore and uh he witnessed many dead. But uh that was, it was uh it was a difficult time but there was not a lot more detail described than that other than they were trying to survive on limited fresh water. And uh Yes.

Yes. He was a US US army. So, does she know anything about, like the social life of her grandfather or her father? Like the friend they were treated grandparents, open up a, in Galveston, Texas has a multi partnership, a restaurant

and, uh, and before the war and then the grand, her father got drafted, you know, during the war. Uh, so they have a lot of friends that are Caucasian, non Chinese friends as well. So social life was, you know, acceptable. So

they first from California to Waco, Texas. No, no, there's a little town. So they do have a um of the real world work. I heard like uh Chinese uh real world workers were treated very differently in terms of wage and um

and like the welfare. Um so like, what does she know anything about like how her grandfather was trading in terms of like work, like any discrimination, like in terms of the salary, they did not how much money, but it's very little and it is

segregated. She said she was very young. So it was difficult for her to ask all these relevant questions. OK. And like how was like her father treated like in the army? Because like, I think it were like very few Asians now. Yeah, she mentioned that when

they, when the ship got sunk there was not, she, he probably was the only Chinese. There are other Caucasian uh comrade and black. They were all mixed together as a troop. So, so Grandpa George, after the war was over, he had a close knit and

they would have reunions. The World War Two, he would during World War two, he was only one family member and that was managing the restaurant among other partners. And the there's business dealing that try to squeeze their family part out because the, the son obviously

was in the army already and they had to work real hard to maintain his share of the uh of the business. So that's probably any other business. Um So what was her first job when she arrived in 19? She arrived? The the family have already moved

from Galveston restaurant to a grocery store. And so we're able to just uh help the family as part of the family business. Yeah, I can't read that. What was the address on that? I don't have the address on the Yeah, I have, I have the uh

I have a yeah. Ok. On Market Street Road, you had the address at home. Address is in here on here but I can read it. There's no address because I didn't have it on here. Ok, I can't um it's near the Galena Park area and there's

no, I have it at home in the work place like when she was working. Ok, this is you realize this is a family business. So all of them, all of the Chinese were working in the business. There's no discrimination among the employees, majority

of their clientele. Not much discrimination. Not much. I didn't say there was no, we grew up when we were little kids in the grocery store too. So I remember, uh, how much we would stack groceries with, for my grandpa. And he would give us like a

nickel or a dime or, yeah, a quarter a week and, and they would have all these. So essentially they work for the family, what I'll pay and they also have to deliver in order to, to, they have to deliver. So it's not like today that Amazon

does it, they do in order to the business. So, was it hard for them to like, promote the business? Because like, they were Asians and like there were other like Caucasian, like competitors or like black, uh, African American? Yeah. There, there's not much competitive because

no one willing to serve the black except them. So they, they pretty much got their own business. A good neighbor food market. We had two grandpa ran, one uncle Jim ran the other one further in. There was all in Pleasantville. I

don't even know what Pleasantville Road at that at that time. Only no Clinton. That was it. My name was Judson Robinson senior was the landlord or owner of the building at that time. And they, so they, so they, they lost their business because uh, industrialization of

the area, the owners have sold the land. It's probably 50. 60 already. Right. 60. Yeah, there's a picture of, uh, the last day when the grocery store, this is a picture of when they were closing in there. That's the railroad that I have. I have, I

have the original copies. I can see the color here is better. So, for the hairstyle, is it because of like the peak to, or like they cut it? Well, it's probably due to age loss of when they were younger that had that. Yeah, that one is

probably better. A single one of him. Legislature. Um, so did she ever face any discrimination in the US? They, they, they pretty much limit their life, social life within the family, within the business and, and because of that they did not, since I don't wanna say

they don't have discrimination but they didn't sense too much discrimination among their clientele, but they work so hard. Seven days a week. There's no, there's not too much time off to have the opportunity half day on Sunday and they would go to CBC too back in

the early days. So they'll go to church. They were Christian, their grandparent become Christian in San Francisco. They, they socialize mainly within the church community. It, at that time this church was downtown Houston. This, there are stories that, uh, when he came, they went to Waco,

they had a restaurant in Waco and his three sons had a restaurant there and that's where they befriend Reverend there. He was a missionary student at at Baylor there and, and that particular pastor eventually become the pastor at Chinese Baptist church. The pastor here, excuse me?

Ok, darling went back to China. Obviously, he only very few Christian. So did her grandparents have like any other religion before? Because you like the word. So the grandmother was still a, so

there is some conflict within the worships between the 21 is a Buddhist. The other is a Christian. But like all the Children were brought up with like the Christian uh full uh she was baptized in 1961. She

came to America in 1956. And then so is it because for like family reason that she believes in Christianity? His father, her grandmother is still at that time, you know about that the Qing dynasty custom district

where they took this picture County, that's what it is. So if you want to write down which one is, you take a picture of that? No. Oh, you wanna take a picture of this that has it? I you got black and white people. So for the

fed finding was it like very hard for the grandmother or it was just like a natural process that every woman like accepted? Yes. And and at that time, obviously, uh it is, is another way to limit the mobility of female and as a way to force

them to be in the family, not being able to go out to, you know, do other things. So when you're real, real young girl, they, they bound so only you can walk pasture as if you were in high heel is considered

making you look beautiful. The give you the, so the the the the those with larger feet will convey a lower economic status because you have to work. If you're able to have bound feet, then you are wealthy enough, actually

had to have not, not able to walk, well, not be able to take yourself status as she had three maid service, but like not like the other female members like receive this kind of. So her grandmother is the last generation that has feet is a very

difficult. But after the Qing dynasty, the end of the Qing dynasty, they no longer, no longer required or no longer fashionable to be back because at that time, grandma came to the States did any like American

uh coworker or like so uh usually the grandfather goes back, have a conceive and have one born and another one conceive before he comes back. He usually stay in China perhaps a little bit more than a year and then

he comes back. So they'll have ok, each other to have as much uh descendant as possible. So, ok, so like how many Children um does she have? So uh they have two daughters and one son. Hm. So what values

uh did she want to bring up her Children with or or already uh what values did she bring up uh her Children with like value value? OK. So follow the Christian value. Yeah, brought up in the in the some of them are uh some,

some of them are Catholics from the village to Hong Kong. 1953 went from the village and to Guangzhou Can. And then 1955 from Guangzhou to Hong Kong. 1956 immigrated from Hong Kong to the United

States. And then my brother and I was born, I think two months later, uh we're twins. So we were born in the so they left uh in March of 1950 they were born, the the twins were born four months later. Um how

would she identify herself, identify as far as nationality or religions? Her name like everything like oh yeah, she has different name. She is kind of so she does, she's a Chinese. Yeah, a Christian and bringing up the

family in, in the Western culture. She goes by, her name is Kkoon Hong Hong Gore Lee. OK. And sometimes people call her by Mrs Albert Lee because she's always been known as Mrs Albert Lee and IB MA y and her husband served during the Korean War.

Yeah, I'm here. Yeah, I'll be here. He was a cook in the Korean War. He served during the Korean War because the time when he got drafted my home. So her husband was born in China. So he did

not become a citizen until almost he did not go because of that. So like how did she manage to find her identification? Like throughout like the change from like being a Chinese to like being an American? Like was there any like struggling of like identification she

went through? She says she is a real slow transformation. She really does not remember any particular milestone in which change from a Chinese woman to her speak little English. But you can go. So like in bringing up

her Children, she also like had like this gradual combination of like cultures. Um So how do you like Houston? How long have you lived in Houston? Well, I think the time line 1950 I think when she, she should arrive, they were living in Houston. She keeps

up with the current event by reading the newspaper pretty much every day or Chinese newspaper because you can read and write all the keeps the current event through the Chinese newspaper. Uh She has the cable television. So, so um how does she like Houston? They, they,

they got to Houston doing a home um just as hot as well. This, this would be weather wise, it would be the same as should be for long way. There is still the Gore Village back then you went back there to visit that right back in

uh in the village it still exists. So um and how does she like perceive like how like the Asian American population in Houston has changed over the years when they first come, they circulate mainly socialized she had with other people

and all I get to know more other Chinese you but she, she doesn't have not experienced drastic discrimination. Do you have the extra, the three brothers that came through Angels Island? 12 and 31. That's Uncle Dick, Grandpa George and um Uncle Ben.

And then this is the um where's the baby sister? There's the baby sister that also came to America to out of that, you know, brothers and sister. Oh Yeah. Uh This would be the direct descendant of the grandfather

that migrated to Houston, this large family. And this is a, this is another picture too with the first uh Robert Gore senior family. So you scanned it. So you try to, once you scanned it, try to everybody correlated

to that family tree there. Yeah. So it said like do you do like her job and everything? Like she doesn't really know like how like like on a large scale how like the Asian American population in Houston has changed over the years like she,

she did, she did not think too much how well it makes because the always been with the family business. So there's not too much um And what was the toughest thing she had overcome in her life, struggling

through life, work five days a week, seven days, she didn't even have to work long hours and, and, and, and the isolation within the family, you don't get seven in the morning to 11 p.m. Yeah. Oh, thank goodness. So,

so from the cook for the family too, uh there. But all the employees. So, like what was like the thing that helped her? Like, I think it's probably mainly family, royal family. So they just work wherever they

need it because they're the owner. So they have to just do whatever it takes to get it done the bottom. Like what are some of her most proud accomplishments? The proudest moment would be the offsprings. Yeah. So what neighborhood did she live

in when she was working in the grocery store? Uh the east side of town in the Galena Park area. That's Galen a park and the address is 12317. That's your home address. And grandma would live a block down 22 blocks, two blocks on what was the

they also perform service for the other Chinese family like taking their Children to church just helping each other within the Chinese community service for other families as well. The question, any other question? I was curious like what was the economic background of her paternal grandparents? Like

I know her paternal mother, um grandmother she had down beat. So she was from a well um like I guess good economic background but how will her paternal grandfather, her paternal grandfather? Yeah. So the one that is in the United States working in the railroad. Yeah.

Grandfather's family is not too well off but he is coming from the United States so able to bring home a lot of money. And the, the grandmother, even though her feet bound is considered good luck for the family and her main job was to create offspring.

All. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Good luck. Uh-huh. Hold on, hold on now. He, his, her grandfather had two other three other brothers that they brought to the United, that, uh, that he brought to you in the United States too. So, they have family here too. So, anything

else? Are you done? You have a lot of information?