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Today is December 21st, 2021. My name is Kevin, and this is the Punk and Metal Project of the Houston Asian American Archive. So today I'll be talking with Kittie Farmer.

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She's the lead singer of Flooded Tomb, which is a metal band based in Austin. And so thank you so much for, you know, taking the time out of your day to talk with me today.

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Oh, thank you for having me. I'm really excited. I love the mission of the Houston Asian American Archive. So I'm excited to be a part of it.

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Awesome. So I guess before we get into, you know, metal and talking about I guess like your band experience. Can you tell us a little bit about kind of your early childhood and, you know, like where you

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went to school and some of your early musical experiences? Well, I was born in Gyeonggi do just outside of Seoul, South Korea. And when I was five months old, I was adopted by a Caucasian American family

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in Oklahoma City. That's where I grew up. And I guess when I was a kid, you know, all the kids love to do those Disney sing-alongs––just for context, I

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was born in 1989, so when I was a kid, it was like the Lion King sing-along, Disney princesses, you know, and we would do school plays–– we actually did the Lion King as a school play, so I always loved just

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doing the musical parts of those. And then when I got a little bit older, I watched The Matrix movies, and I got those soundtracks, which is what got me interested in like rock music

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and heavier music. And so when I was 15––yeah, I think I was 15, I joined my first metal band. I don't know if it sounded like

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anything because we were just, you know, kids, but in Oklahoma City, I went to Westminster School up until eighth grade, then I went to Classen School of Advanced Studies. So that's like an International

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Baccalaureate school. And I moved to Austin to go to UT. So you kind of touched briefly on how you got into, you know, like rock music from The Matrix

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movies. So from there, can you tell us a bit about like some of the gateway bands that you had going into, like, you know, like metal and even like, more heavy music? Oh, that's–that's a good question.

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So the band that jumped out to me the most on that soundtrack was Rage Against the Machine. So Rage Against the Machine and Audioslave and Soundgarden were a few of

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my gateway bands, also Pearl Jam, Tool, and A Perfect Circle, when I started, like, listening to rock radio and getting into those kinds of bands. And then I guess, from there, I kind of realized

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that I liked kind of that heavier, distorted guitar sound. So the first metal albums I got for myself were from Arch Enemy, Nightrage, and Dark Tranquillity.

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And so I feel like that kind of shaped my taste, because I'm––I love all kinds of heavy metal, but my main favorite sound, I guess, is that like melodic death metal, and it was because of those bands.

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And so like, when you were listening to those bands, were you––so what drawed you kind of to singing as opposed to, you know, like guitar or drums? Again, that's a really good question.

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Nobody's ever asked me that. I think it was from being a little kid doing those sing-alongs and doing those musical theater productions as a kid––I loved singing, I love,

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kind of, the physicality and the feeling of it, it just makes me feel alive. And it makes me feel engaged. And to be honest, I just never had like, an aptitude for musical instruments anyway.

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I played bass in the band for a little bit. And when I did that ––A, I wasn't like the best bass player and B, I was kind of jealous of the lead singer.

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I was like, “Oh, I wanna be the lead singer.” And that was kind of my cue, like, okay, from now on, you should really only be, you know, the lead vocalist. So you mentioned like as a teen, you kind of got into, you know, like making music with a band, or like playing with a band.

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So can you tell us more about kind of like that first band experience? Well, so I was, yeah, maybe––I think I was 15 because at the beginning I couldn't drive myself and everybody in suburban Oklahoma gets their driver's license on their 16th birthday cause

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it's so spread out. So I must have been 15 and I met my first band actually on a message board called OklahomaRock. com. And I just went to the drummer's house, and we

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played––it was just me, a drummer and a bass player, there was no guitarist. We played Iron Maiden covers and stuff. I had so much fun.

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Obviously, I wasn't kind of expecting that being in a band is different than singing along with a backing track. I don't know why I should have known that going in.

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But it was a lot of fun. And the drummer and I are still really good friends today. Awesome. And I guess, you know, like, when, like lay people think about like vocals in like metal,

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es-especially metal, they think of like, the vocals kind of as like, you know, like unskilled, like screaming in a sense. So they don't actually understand how hard it is, you know, to scream and––scream and growl like that.

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So kind of how did you learn to, you know, scream? Probably badly, like, a lot of us back in the day, you know, just screaming along with your favorite music, trying to figure out how to make that sound, reading articles and

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you know, watching videos. I had the DVD, “The Zen of Screaming” by Melissa Cross, which is––a lot of people think it's super helpful, and I personally––like I learned better

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with like an individualized approach. I need my hand held. So basically, when I––okay, long story, so after I was in that first band, I wasn't in a

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band again until I was 29 years old. So a long time elapsed between, you know, that first experience and then my first band that started gigging.

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And in that band, I felt a lot of anxiety around my vocals, I was kind of scared that I would open my mouth and no sound would come out. So when I left that band I was in when I was 29,

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which conveniently was over the COVID pandemic, I had downtime, and I took virtual lessons from Extreme Vocal Institute, and that's like a one on one virtual thing with a Berklee grad and he's fantastic. He really got my mind right, and I don't feel that fear, and I don't

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feel that anxiety. And my old bandmates had actually said there's been a huge improvement in my vocals since I took those lessons. So I have had a lot of help. And I'm really glad I did, I think that it is important to invest in

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yourself that way. And I guess going back to kind of your early childhood, did you have any friends that were into metal or, like the same kind of musical taste that you–you had? Not really, it wasn't an organic thing like there were metalheads at school

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or whatever, there was one friend that I had in school that was a metal fan like me. And he was like, a little bit older than I was, so it wasn't like we were hanging out all the time.

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My friends who were into metal music, I met them online on that Oklahoma Rock forum of my first band, of course. And then I met an amazing person named Megan, and she was the first ––she was actually the first

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woman death metal vocalist that I had met in person and she really inspired me, and we're still friends too. Later on, I want to talk more about kind of your experience especially as an–as an Asian American in you know, metal, but you know, as a child

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how did I guess kids react like when you told them that you like metal because it–it really goes against I guess the model minority, you know, Asian stereotype. So, a lot of my friends kind of

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accepted it, but they weren't into it. When I was a teenager, you know, my friends liked to go to––you know, there were all-ages dance clubs and stuff like that.

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And they really liked that. It wasn't my thing. There's nothing wrong with it. But you know, I would go to the all-ages dance clubs with them, but they wouldn't go to heavy metal shows with me.

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Usually I would––my parents would drop me off or when I could drive, I would drive there, and I would go by myself. So even though I wasn't like, ostracized or bullied for it, not a lot of people participated, if that makes sense.

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I guess before we move on to more of your contemporary experiences, do you have or did you kind of have any musical idols as a child or growing up? So, when I was much younger, the Spice Girls came out.

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So I've always been a big Spice Girls fan, that was, you know, the beginning of their girl power slogans. I was in kindergarten so obviously that's been really fundamental to me.

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I got Britney Spears' first album, “Baby One More Time” when I was, you know, in grade school. That was such an exciting album for me. I like to sing along with that, you know, that really helps you get into music, and I'm still a big fan of Britney Spears,

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especially now in her advocacy for people with disabilities who are put, you know, under unfair conservatorship. So she's a big role model for me. When I got older, I mentioned Megan, who was the

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first female death metal vocalist that I had ever met. And also when I was younger, I was listening to like metal radio on the internet, and Arch Enemy was the first death metal band that I had ever heard with a

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female vocalist. So definitely Angela from Arch Enemy. Morgan from Kittie. And when I was younger, definitely Jessicka from Jack

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Off Jill, were some idols of mine. Now, I guess, do these idols still like influence you today, whether it be you know with like songwriting or you know, your vocal style? I think they do.

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Especially Angela from Arch Enemy. And a lot of vocalists that I kind of latched onto back in the day, Kitty Saric from the band Decadence. I listened to them a lot, and it definitely

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influences my style. I want to find that very––i-it's like a very like, gravelly, growly sound, very distorted, but also has a lot of energy. And that's what I'm aiming for.

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So before, you mentioned there's kind of a lapse in time where you weren't really involved in, you know, bands. So what were you doing during that time? So, you know, after my first band,

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we kind of went our separate ways. And then I was in that band I told you about where I played bass. After that, I tried to find another band to join, but just nothing ever

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worked out in Oklahoma City. And then I ended up moving to UT for college. And when I was in college, I worked for KVRX, UT's student run radio station.

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And I did a heavy metal specialty radio show, where I got to interview with so many really cool local bands, lots of people that I know today. And I was, to be honest, like, I was kind of too shy to tell anybody that I wanted to sing in a metal

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band. I don't know why I thought––to be honest, I thought that if I tried and I failed, it would be embarrassing. So I just didn't try for a long–long time.

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And then kind of after I graduated college, I did take singing lessons, like rock and pop style for a little bit just for fun. And I had to quit lessons––in my last lesson, the

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singing teacher was a graduate student from UT's Butler School of Music, and she taught me like a little bit more about doing the death growl, and about how your false chords shouldn't touch, they should just kind of vibrate.

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And that was like a great little nugget of knowledge that carried me through to that first band that I was in as an adult until I could get more in-depth lessons. And was that first band Deocculted?

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Yes! We had a lot of fun. I was like looking on Craigslist and the “musicians wanted” ads. And they were like, well, we're looking for a vocalist. And I was like, well, I might as well try it.

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Like, I feel like as you get older, especially as a woman, you kind of care less about what people think about you. And you can be a little embarrassed and kind of shake it off. And I was almost 30 at the time.

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So I was like, okay, just go for it. See what happens. And they sent me two songs. It didn't have vocal parts yet. And I wrote lyrics. I wrote the vocal patterns.

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And then I went in and auditioned, and they were like, “Oh, you're in the band.” I was like, “Oh, what?” I couldn't believe that at first. It was really a great moment. So you know, as a vocalist, do you kind of have

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expertise in a specific, like subgenre of metal or do you consider yourself like pretty versatile? That's a great question. I, me, personally, have just one

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vocal style. Pretty much everything I do sounds the same. If I would describe it––and I think my good friends would describe it as more fitting to like melodic death metal, but my old band was more like

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heavier death metal. And my new band is not even a death metal band, they're more like a heavy metal band with my vocals on top. So I think my vocals might be associated with a certain genre, but I don't necessarily perform that

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genre. So––you kind of briefly talked about, you know, you wrote lyrics for two of the tracks that didn't have vocals. So kind of in general, where do you draw your

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inspiration from for lyrics? Oh, that's a great question. I think it's changed with time. In my younger years, I suffered more with

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mental illness than I do now. The main one––I have this generalized anxiety disorder. So I would write a lot of songs about like, mental illness from my own experiences, or from like things that I had talked

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about with friends. As I kind of moved along I––it's like kind of an inspiration from the music, too. I heard, kind of like those Egyptian sounding scales, so I went with mythological

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themes. And to me, it really depends on what the song sounds like––I'll sit there and listen to it. And a lot of times the sound will kind of tell me what it's about.

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But I think I would say mainly now, like mythological themes are my favorite. And so is there a specific, I guess, reason for why like metal is so suitable for kind of expressing the

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themes or topics that you incorporate into the songs? Or is it just kind of like a natural kind of polymerization? I would say both.

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It's definitely natural because I love metal, so it's probably the only genre I would ever want to perform, even though I listen to all genres of music. But also, metal is such an intense form of music, and a lot of the things in mythology are very intense also.

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So I kind of watched some of your live performances on YouTube. And, you know, your ability to stream live is very impressive, I must say. So how do you kind of prepare for a show, like the

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weeks leading up to the show, or kind of right before the show? Thank you for the kind words, I really appreciate it. Well, the first thing that I like to do is get my body loose.

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Walking is one of my favorite forms of exercise, both physically and, you know, for my mental state, as I mentioned before, I have anxiety, but walking, and really being present and trying to notice, like all the details of the trees in your surroundings, is what helps me lessen my

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anxiety, and then lessening my anxiety in my mind kind of gets my body looser. And to achieve the sound you want, your body has to be loose.

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So then after that, you know, leading up I'll try to ease my body into it by doing some exercises, you know, neck stuff, shoulder stuff, breathing exercises, studying lyrics if there's a new song, for sure. And then I'll–I'll do my vocals with our songs,

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and I also like to just sing. Lately, I've been singing along to like Gloryhammer songs and Iron Maiden songs just to get the breathing warmed up, you know? If you're

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comfortable sharing, can you kind of provide us with your perspective on, I guess, you know, mental health like issues, you know anxi-anxiety, specifically, especially kind of in––as an Asian

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American, because there's kind of a––like a stigma around it. So obviously, I will say, first of all, that I'm not a professional. So these are just my own experiences. Growing up with––I didn't grow up in an Asian family.

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I grew up in the suburbs of Oklahoma City, and from kindergarten to eighth grade, I actually didn't have any Asian classmates. I’d had one Latino classmate, one Black classmate, for the last three years, but first it was just me and

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no other Asian people. It was like all––you know my white classmates. My anxiety stems from what my therapist said––it sounds like a cliche, but it's because my mother was exhibiting anxious thought

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patterns––my therapist was basically saying that she was kind of thinking of reasons to feel like people were persecuting her. And she would communicate like passive aggressively.

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And knowing those thought patterns, or what I modeled, now, I had to kind of undo or combat those thought patterns. So my personal view of my own mental problems is that I'm glad it has a name.

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I didn't feel bad about being diagnosed at all. And also, I was kind of glad to get a diagnosis because I realized that my thinking wasn't normal, and it wasn't necessarily healthy. But I also got the tools to undo it, and I

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feel so much better now. So my perspective would be, getting a diagnosis isn't a bad thing. It's actually empowering because you can get the tools to live a healthier life and just feel better and now when my

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anxiety had a hold on me, I couldn't really enjoy things. I was always thinking, “Oh, this isn't gonna last” or like, thinking about the future. But now I can just enjoy the moment.

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Thank you so much for sharing kind of your journey with your mental health. And I–I kind of want to go back to, you know, you as a frontwoman. So do–do you have any, I guess, advice for people who are

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interested in being the front of a band or what do you think are some elements of a good, you know, frontwoman? I would say there is no right or wrong way to front a band. I think a lot of times people think that the

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front person has to move around a lot and just jump around and be all over everywhere. But some of my favorite performances have been by singers who just stood in one place really strong, you know, behind

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the mic stand; you can really make it your own. And you control the energy of the band. So if you want to be that kind of person who stan-stand strong in one place and stands powerfully, that's the kind of energy

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that the band's gonna have and that's great, that sets you apart. Just lean into what makes you unique, you know, I'm sure anybody who's a singer has gotten compliments from people or gotten comments. And if

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you think about all those things that people have said about you, you'll realize what makes you different. And then if you lean into it heavily, you can bring something that you know, no one has seen before that maybe doesn't exist in your town that people are going to be excited about.

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So now I'd like to transition to your current band, Flooded Tomb, so can you tell us kind of how you found out about the band––how you joined initially? So, in 2019, when I was gigging a lot with Deocculted,

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Flooded Tomb was also gigging a lot, and I heard of them because we were scheduled to play a show together, but it didn't happen. We, Deocculted, had to drop off, so I never met them.

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I knew they existed. And then in, gosh, I think December 2020, they invited me to try out because they were a four piece band, with

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the rhythm guitarist doing lead vocals. And they were like, we want to find just a lead vocalist that will just sing so we can focus on our instruments. And throughout December they had two rounds of auditions.

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So I was actually auditioning for like that whole month. And then in January, they picked the lead vocalist, so that's when I joined. And can you define for us the type of metal your

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current band plays and kind of describe to us your band's sound and influences? Oh, gosh, that's a question that we get a lot because when people hear us live, we don't really fall into

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specific genre. I think a lot of it has to do with, they're very democratic in their songwriting. So all four instrumentalists influence the sound and they have so many different interests. You know, Nathan really likes Mastodon, you can hear it in his riffs,

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Scott and Chris like kind of 90s stuff, like 90s Sepultura, but also GWAR down to like punk rock. And I think it all kind of comes in and each song kind of sounds different. I've heard everything people have said it sounds like melodic death metal.

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I've gotten progressive doom. Somebody said, it just sounds like heavy metal with screaming over it, which is fair. So I would––when people ask, just for pu-publicity or promotion

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purposes, I just say like it's a heavy metal band. I don't know . Gotcha. I checked your Bandcamp. And it seems that the latest release was in 2019.

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And I know you guys are recording new music. So can you tell us a bit about this, or as much as you can tell me about this at this point? Yes. So in February, I think Nathan

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brought a song that they had finished musically, but didn't have lyrics––didn't have any vocal parts in place, and it's kind of a two part song. So he had called it originally “Encased in Karst”, which I think is a reference to something, but

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I'm not sure. But it's, you know, like, encased in something. And then the second part was called “For the Wind to Tear.” So like, nature type stuff. When I heard this song––even though this––the music itself

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was like years old, it was a great opportunity for me to add lyrics and be like my first true contribution to the band and the sounds and kind of like the melodies and stuff kind of suggested to me, okay, this––the

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first half is going to be about like, ancient Egyptian mythology. The second half is going to be about kind of my personal experiences. And I

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work on the lyrics a lot, I revise them and revise them and revise them because I wasn't a hundred percent happy with them. And we recorded that song in October. And at that point, I had revised so much, I can

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finally say I'm happy with it. Do you guys have a tentative release for the new music or not really ? Not really .

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Hopefully it'll be out soon. It's been sent out to mastering, so at least hopefully you can hear it soon. I'm not really sure what they want to do in terms of like, cover art, or like, you know

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if they want to put it on Bandcamp or only have it on, you know, Spotify and the streaming services, and hopefully we'll get it figured out. And are you guys signed to a label or do you guys like self-release the music?

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We self-release , we are not signed to any record label. It's kind of a good thing in a way. Obviously, we would love to have like the promotion and backing of a record label. But, you know, a lot of times we

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have some band members who are in college, you know, getting their master's degree, doing really intense jobs. So being able to set our own schedule is good, too. So now I'd kind of like to shift to kind of your

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identity in relation to music. And the first question I have is––you know, some metal bands have incorporated, you know, different cultures. Whether it be like Hindu gods into their music, and you kind of talked about how you're incorporating like,

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mythology. So have you––I know you're adopted, but have you ever kind of touched base with your Korean heritage at all and have you ever thought of maybe infusing some of it into your music or

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lyrics? I haven't infused it into the music or lyrics just because for the music I'm not really involved in like, the instrumental parts of the song. So I only have control over the lyrics.

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And for me, the lyrics have to come like super naturally, I have to just hear the song over and over. And something will eventually come. If Korean stories or myths were on my mind, they probably will someday,

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but I just have to go with whatever pops up first. As a kid, the adoption agency that facilitated my adoption did a Korean heritage

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camp, so I've gotten to do that. As an adult, I haven't really been in touch with like a Korean community. To be honest with you, sometimes it's hard because a lot of times, like,

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first generation Korean Americans have a different relationship with adoptees, or people who can't speak Korean and have no background with the culture. But I think things are changing now, and I've

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also gotten to like interact with the larger Asian community, which is great. You know, as––going into high school, I've got to meet people––first generation Chinese immigrants, first generation Vietnamese

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and Thai immigrants and do cultural activities and celebrate holidays with them. And I really enjoyed that. You mentioned how kind of the dynamic is kind of different if you're an––you're

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adopted, right, and you interact with now first generation Korean immigrants. Have you ever had any interesting experiences with regards to that relationship or dynamic. Somebody actually said something interesting.

00:30:09.020 - 00:30:22.980

They weren't Korean, but they were Asian. And they were basically saying, you know, Korean adoptees or you know, second, third generation immigrants, very Americanized Koreans, the way that your face looks when you're not making an

00:30:22.980 - 00:30:37.760

expression, the way you hold your body, the way you dress, the way you move, kind of suggests that you're kind of removed from that original Korean culture. I have been to places where they were, you know, like Korean-owned

00:30:37.810 - 00:30:50.400

institutions, and they had asked that I speak Korean. And I just, I can't do it. But I'm not really––it's not really upsetting to me, it's just kind of a fact of life that I don't speak Korean, and

00:30:50.400 - 00:31:03.900

they were willing to–to work with me. I would like to go someday, but I don't really have any interest in learning the language right now, I guess I kind of have like so much going on.

00:31:04.970 - 00:31:22.090

But I–I would like to learn a little more someday. And I would definitely love to see, you know, the places where my ancestors were. Have there ever been any hardships that have arisen due to race in the––you know,

00:31:22.090 - 00:31:35.200

in– in metal that, you know, at like shows or gigs or performances? No, and I'm really happy about that. I feel very lucky in that regard.

00:31:35.330 - 00:31:44.730

I've always had like a really good support system, where I think even if people were gonna, you know, say something or do something they would know that's not gonna fly.

00:31:45.360 - 00:31:59.030

Being in a band, you know, it's kind of like a little family almost like, you know, it's like a little club, and you look out for each other. And I think that kind of eases acceptance

00:31:59.030 - 00:32:11.650

along as well, you know that, okay, this band is a unit. We're all different backgrounds, all different ethnicities and races, and we're working together seamlessly. So I think it actually sends like a really good

00:32:11.930 - 00:32:30.870

message. And do you––are you in this band full time or do you have, I guess, a main job or a full time job? I definitely have a day job, I think––and I-I'm sure you've read, you know, that even

00:32:30.870 - 00:32:46.820

a lot of really famous metal bands have day jobs. We're definitely––we're not as active as a lot of local metal bands even. We all have day jobs. So, in a way, like it kind of stinks because it's hard to balance that

00:32:47.570 - 00:33:01.490

energy wise or time wise sometimes, but it's also kind of liberating in a way because I don't make money from music. I'm not really beholden to like outside opinions, I can just do whatever I want and only have to answer to myself.

00:33:04.440 - 00:33:22.230

Have you––could you tell us more about I guess the–the balancing act, or how hard is it? So for me, it's not too bad because I work you know a nine to five Monday through Friday, and concerts are usually, you know, at night, or on the weekend.

00:33:23.260 - 00:33:33.560

The only thing that's kind of difficult sometimes is if we have a show like on a weeknight, and we have to be at work the next day, my boss is super understanding if I'm really tired.

00:33:34.430 - 00:33:47.550

I can either call into work or she'll let me work from home. And my coworkers all know, you know, that I sing in a band, and they're really supportive. So I feel really lucky in that sense.

00:33:50.490 - 00:34:05.870

Have your parents been supportive of your musical journey so far or––and what are their thoughts on it? So my parents, I––my mother's deceased unfortunately.

00:34:05.960 - 00:34:19.530

I don't have a great relationship with her––my dad anymore. Long story, but they haven't really been in my life for a while. When I was a kid, you know, they–they

00:34:20.880 - 00:34:32.210

took me to bass lessons, they got me lessons for, you know, bass guitar. And as I mentioned before, like my dad would drive me to my first band practice. But they would kind of make

00:34:32.210 - 00:34:46.540

offhand remarks about like, “Oh, it's just like screaming music or whatever.” So materially, they were supportive. Like, I guess mentally or emotionally kind of neutral to not so much.

00:34:46.900 - 00:34:59.720

But I kind of––I made a joke at my 32nd birthday show this July before Delta hit. I was like, you know, “I'm 32 years old, it's not just a phase, it's happening and I think it's getting worse.”

00:35:03.060 - 00:35:20.200

I'm sorry to hear about your mother. But, you know, I'm glad that you're still doing what you enjoy today. So I'd like to ask some questions now about your perspectives on

00:35:20.650 - 00:35:31.930

just some current issues or subjects. And, you know, as you're probably aware, there's been a rise in anti-Asian sentiment, and there's been a lot of like, anti-Asian violence.

00:35:32.730 - 00:35:48.800

So what do you think, I guess, Asian musicians in metal can do to fight back? Or do you just have any like perspectives on the issue in general? That's a great question. I think we can be there––like when I say be there physically be there exist,

00:35:49.270 - 00:36:02.790

add to the representation. I was also talking to someone, maybe a hot take, I'm not the biggest fan of the stop Asian hate hashtag, I think it's a little bit clunky.

00:36:03.150 - 00:36:14.500

I think we just need to sa-say stop racism, we need to be there for the Black Lives Matter movement. We need to be there for all of our fellow musicians of color, and speak out against racism.

00:36:14.500 - 00:36:27.540

I know last, you know, last summer, when a lot of people were making videos about the Black Lives Matter movement, Goatwhore showed up, Exhumed showed up, Plague Years, Frozen Soul.

00:36:27.540 - 00:36:39.700

Like a lot of big metal bands were just saying, you know, Black Lives Matter, but also just racism is bad and you shouldn’t even have to say that. But they were out there saying like, racism in general is bad.

00:36:40.860 - 00:36:57.560

Don't do it. And I think if we all stick together in that big way, in that big community way, that really helps. There's a lot of pretty well established metal scenes in Asian countries like, you know, Japan or Indonesia.

00:36:58.980 - 00:37:13.300

In the US, however, why do you think there are relatively few Asians or Asian Americans in genres of music like metal or punk or hardcore? I can't speak to like the larger group.

00:37:14.310 - 00:37:27.540

So in Austin, you know, I moved to Austin to go to college, I thought there was like a larger Asian population because there were so many Asian students at UT. And I talked to a few of them and I was like, are you gonna, you know, stay in the US after you

00:37:27.540 - 00:37:43.090

graduate? They were like, “Heck no, I'm going back to China.” I was like, “You know, fair enough” . So, Austin, in general, has like a small Asian population, that might have something to do with it.

00:37:43.200 - 00:38:00.890

I'm sure there might be some sort of cultural elements as well but I can't really speak to those. I think like you said, Asian American culture is a lot different from like, just Asian culture, mainland Asian, so

00:38:00.890 - 00:38:12.580

that's probably also why there might be a difference. Can you tell me more about the metal scene in Austin, and kind of how the scene is––in Austin is

00:38:12.580 - 00:38:29.080

different from other scenes that you've been a part of or know about? I personally love the Austin metal scene because everybody's so like, supportive of each other. People realize that there can't just be one dominant band; they lift each

00:38:29.170 - 00:38:43.900

other up. And a lot of bands will have members who like, you know, also book shows, or do podcasts or do zines and support our scene in that way. So it becomes like a big family.

00:38:44.480 - 00:38:59.510

I can't really speak––I've only ever lived in Oklahoma City. I'm––I think that the metal scene in Oklahoma City is smaller, but it could be growing. I've been gone for so long. Austin is obviously––it has the reputation of being the

00:38:59.510 - 00:39:13.110

live music capital of the world. So I think people may move there specifically to play music. So I think that helps make it like a larger scene. We have so many clubs, you know, so many great websites and outlets and

00:39:13.500 - 00:39:31.360

radio stations that support us as well. So I've noticed kind of this like opinion going around like for some time now, i-it's nothing new but some people in metal kind of try to ditch the whole like metal subgenre

00:39:31.640 - 00:39:41.600

classification system because they––I guess they want to like unite everyone who listens to metal. They just call it metal or heavy metal. Do you have any perspectives on this?

00:39:41.600 - 00:39:59.480

And do you think classifying metal is even important? Yeah, it's a double edged sword because like I mentioned, I had done that heavy metal radio show. Some genres are very helpful for people like DJs and journalists and stuff to kind of

00:40:00.360 - 00:40:13.610

express thoughts and feelings. For example, if I'm doing like a written review of a CD, and I can't just say, “Oh, this is, you know, melodic death metal, this is black metal, this is like traditional heavy metal,”

00:40:13.920 - 00:40:30.420

it's gonna to be harder for me to describe to the listener, what they can expect. On the other hand, as a musician, you know, a lot of times, having a sub-genre assigned to your music can feel kind of limiting, especially– especially if it's

00:40:30.420 - 00:40:47.950

not something that you agree with. So, in a perfect world, like you wouldn't have to have the sub-genres, but I understand why they exist and why they're useful. And as a minority, female lead singer in metal, do you

00:40:47.950 - 00:41:01.410

envision yourself as sort of a role model for other female lead singers, and what kind of influence do you hope to have on the future of metal? So, I don't think I would like to be a role model.

00:41:03.700 - 00:41:14.540

Just because, you know, I'm–I'm a person, I'm flawed, just like anyone. I am really–really glad to be part of the representation for women and women of color in metal.

00:41:15.550 - 00:41:28.440

My friend came to our last concert of the year, it was last Saturday, December 16th an-oh December 18th, sorry. And he is a white cisgender male, and he came up to me and he was like,

00:41:29.340 - 00:41:41.380

“you know, Kittie, I'm so happy that you're doing what you're doing.” Obviously, nowadays, there is more representation of cisgender women and women of color that are doing the death metal vocals.

00:41:41.380 - 00:41:54.380

But he said, you know, of course, in Austin, we're a microcosm of the larger music scene and women doing that kind of vocal is still like a small minority here in town. And he was like, “I'm glad you're here.

00:41:54.570 - 00:42:11.090

I'm glad people can see somebody in town, somebody who's gigging a lot here doing that kind of vocal being present.” I personally––one of the best moments that I had was at a Deocculted show, and after we played

00:42:12.010 - 00:42:26.680

this, maybe like grade school age came up to me, and she was like, “this is my first metal show and I'm so excited to see a woman singer. I was really, really hoping that there would be a female musician here.” And that

00:42:26.680 - 00:42:35.360

made my day, that it could be her first experience with metal and that she could see, yeah, you can do it. This is great. This is natural. This is normal, you belong here.

00:42:38.800 - 00:42:57.100

So I guess to finish off this interview, my final question is, do you have any advice for aspiring metal musicians in general. And also, I'd like to give you I guess a chance to tell us

00:42:57.120 - 00:43:08.680

anything that you'd like to share, or anything that I didn't cover? Well, my first thing would be kind of talking to you, I could see your facial expressions, and I was

00:43:08.680 - 00:43:19.950

talking about like, my favorite bands, my favorite genres, and your face was lighting up in, and I can tell you know, you love this kind of music. When you have that true passion for heavy metal.

00:43:21.410 - 00:43:33.090

To me, that's the most important thing if you have it, and if you want to be in a band, by all means, do it. I would say, if you want lessons, get them, they're great.

00:43:33.190 - 00:43:48.120

Even if you're already a great player, you can always learn more. And don't be embarrassed, you know, don't be embarrassed to try and fail. A lot of us have auditioned for bands that we didn't get into, a lot of us have done shows

00:43:48.120 - 00:43:55.630

that didn't go so well. It shouldn't stop you, it happens to everyone. There's no need to be embarrassed, you will be supported. No matter what gender,

00:43:55.630 - 00:44:13.870

what race you are, what ethnicity, you belong here, and just your presence is going to make it easier for other people. And I guess to your point about anything else I want to say, you know there's so

00:44:13.870 - 00:44:29.010

many great cisgender women vocalists, like women vocalists of color Ryoko from Clint Eastwood and Daggra is one of them. She had been doing music, you know, long before me doing grindcore with those

00:44:29.060 - 00:44:44.260

harsh vocals, and that was really inspiring to me, my friend Megan. So I guess I just say you belong here, no matter what, you belong. Thank you so much for sharing, and I want to thank you so much again for

00:44:45.610 - 00:44:55.870

talking with us today and sharing all of your amazing, you know, band experiences, early musical experiences. So yeah, thank you so much. Thank you for having me.

00:44:55.870 - 00:45:05.880

I'm super excited to add to the archive of stories, and thank you for shedding light on this. I think this is a really important investigation to do.