00:00:00.300 - 00:00:14.370

All right, so today is Wednesday, November 10, 2021. My name is Emily Ma, and I'm here with Mrs. Karen Tso for the Houston Asian American Archive at Rice.

00:00:15.440 - 00:00:28.490

So, to start from the very beginning, could you tell us where and when you were born? I was born in a Southern part of China, probably pronounced as, you know, Shoutou

00:00:29.870 - 00:00:46.310

汕頭. That is in Cantonese. And it is a seaport in 1950. Nice. And how would you describe the neighborhood where you grew up? Oh, well, the neighborhood is kind of a—it's a city, it's a small city.

00:00:46.370 - 00:00:59.410

And I really don't have much recollection of it, because, yeah, in that regard, it's—you know, I–I remember my–my–my mom and my sister. Yeah.

00:00:59.850 - 00:01:17.880

Because my dad, because he's a nationalist, so in a way he has to leave due to the communists. I see. And do you have like, favorite memories that you shared with your mom and your sister? Well, somewhat, a little bit.

00:01:19.470 - 00:01:34.960

I remember like, well, sometime—you know, it's interesting you asked me to go back so many years ago. I remember they were told me that I was one time chased by a turkey.

00:01:35.180 - 00:01:51.610

So don't ask me how come there's a turkey, in–in Shoutou, China at that time, whatever. And I remember, kind of, food is very scarce. I remember one time I did want some milk and somehow my mom get hold

00:01:51.610 - 00:02:04.060

of some milk. But the milk, I think, is bad. Because I—after a sip of it, I throw up. And from that time, I really don't drink, you know, dairy products because of that experience.

00:02:04.670 - 00:02:17.420

Yeah. And, yeah, something like that. Yeah. And did your family practice any, like, traditional holidays or cultural customs? Oh, well, in China, you–you do.

00:02:17.530 - 00:02:29.990

But like, you know, that was right after World War Two. And you know, and after that, the Communists took over China. So it is kind of chaotic, if you look back at history, it's a very chaotic time.

00:02:31.100 - 00:02:46.730

And especially due to the fact that my dad is, you know, belongs to the nationalists, you know, that's why I didn't even know about his existence until I—until, actually, we went

00:02:46.730 - 00:03:05.020

to Hong Kong. Yeah, we went to Hong Kong when I was six, so that was—I think that's the first time I met my father. And he is kind of very—I kind of want to share some notes about my

00:03:05.080 - 00:03:18.920

dad. My dad end up immigrant to Houston, and he–he—I think he's the one who published the first Chinese newspaper. He's all the way from being an editor, you know,

00:03:19.230 - 00:03:37.220

bus—I mean a delivery boy, write the whole thing by hand to begin with, until he get a Chinese–Chinese—not—it's kind of a printing machine that you can do it like the newspaper, you know, that you have the Chinese character there, it's like that, but

00:03:37.530 - 00:03:49.970

anyway, that's another story. Oh, that's amazing. So you said he came to Houston? Yes. He immigrant to—I mean, you know, he–he–he and my mom, you know, we all immigrant to Houston.

00:03:51.540 - 00:04:06.890

Legally as—probably as refugee, I would say, due to his–his, you know, background as the national—as a nationalist. Yeah. And he was like, I think, you know, if I remember

00:04:06.890 - 00:04:20.580

correctly, I heard my parents mentioned that was during the Kennedy, they let all the, you know, the Chinese, the nationalists, that they can come, they get immigrant to the US. Yeah. For–for that status.

00:04:23.060 - 00:04:39.160

And did you all arrive together in the US? Yes, I—yeah, me and my sister, let me see. Yeah, me and my sister, you know, and my parents, yeah, we all immigrant.

00:04:39.430 - 00:04:53.710

And actually, my brother came here first as a student. Yeah. He's another interesting figure if you—he went to UC Berkeley, got his

00:04:54.670 - 00:05:07.150

PhD, and–and now I think he is the first Chinese that work for Texaco, that they draw a contract with the Chinese government for offshore drilling. So that is another part of my family tree per se.

00:05:08.110 - 00:05:21.650

Yeah, so. Yeah, that's really cool! And so when you arrived in the US, do you–do you remember if you experienced any, like, cultural shock memories? Well, when I came here, let me see.

00:05:21.650 - 00:05:33.250

So I grew up in Hong Kong. You know, I left China, we left China when I was six. And so we went to Canton first, or Guangzhou, now, pronounced

00:05:33.250 - 00:05:50.480

as. And then we—I grew up in Hong Kong until I finished high school. And that's when I went–I went to Canada for one year, for one year of high school.

00:05:51.030 - 00:06:06.000

And during that time, it's that when my parents immigrant to the US. But my sister, my sister went to England, and she-she's still there. She lives there with her husband. And that's why I'm going to New York tomorrow, because they are flying in

00:06:06.020 - 00:06:18.030

from–from London, from England. And so I wanted—I haven't seen her for a while due to COVID and things, so I'm flying in tomorrow to– kind of as a get together.

00:06:18.030 - 00:06:28.960

Oh, that's really nice. Like a reunion? Yeah, somewhat. Not exactly. Since, like, you know, since my brother and my sister in law passed

00:06:28.960 - 00:06:42.630

away in 2018, 2019. So, like, she is my—the only sibling I have, that's my sister. I see. Yeah, I hope it goes well, tomorrow.

00:06:43.240 - 00:06:55.850

Oh, it will be, it will be. Yeah, we have all the—now you will be—I-I-I travel, I mean, I-I- I—it's not too bad. It's not too bad. That's why I'm going there instead of waiting, you know, during

00:06:55.930 - 00:07:11.220

Thanksgiving and all these things. So it's just kind of a long weekend to beat the traffic. Yeah, it's a good idea. So, moving on to like kind of your later education, so what

00:07:11.360 - 00:07:22.950

college did you attend for your undergraduate education? And what years were you there? I graduate from University of Houston in 1973. And then I get my master's from Louisiana Tech in

00:07:22.950 - 00:07:36.560

1975. I see, and in college, what subjects were you interested in studying? I was majoring in food and nutrition. And so I got my master, I

00:07:38.870 - 00:07:54.590

think—what do they call now? What they call now? They don't call "food and nutrition," they call, I guess, food science or something. You know, they have now a new—I don't know what is the curriculum right now that, you

00:07:54.590 - 00:08:05.870

know, they rename it. But you know, that was what I had. Oh yeah, institutional management, I think, now. I don't know, whatever, something.

00:08:07.420 - 00:08:22.390

And what kind of drew you to that path of food and nutrition? You know, it's kind of interesting, because I went orientation, I kind of, like, pretty cool, this—you know, I—previously I loved history and stuff like that.

00:08:22.860 - 00:08:32.810

And then they say, "Well, what are you going to do if you major in history? Not going to find a job." And I said, "That's true." Or–or–or literature,

00:08:32.900 - 00:08:49.500

something like that. So I—during orientation, some of the older girls, that—they were all in food and nutrition, I said okay, "Then let me try food and nutrition." So was that, like, area kind of a more popular choice when you were there?

00:08:50.080 - 00:09:05.810

I think so. And then like, you know, at that time, they were all—so that's how I become a registered dietitian. Because, you know, of my–my–my degree, and then, as–as you know, get into your major, you

00:09:05.910 - 00:09:18.300

study a thing, you think it's kind of interesting. And like I said, many of other—the other older girls, all the other—I would say called alum, they would–they would major in that.

00:09:18.770 - 00:09:34.770

And they say, "Yeah, you can become a dietician" and you know, stuff like that. And so that's how–how it goes. Yeah. Yeah, that makes a lot of sense. And outside of like academics, what were some extracurricular

00:09:34.770 - 00:09:44.220

activities or like job, clubs, that you participated in? I don't think at that time, yeah, at that time, let me see. I did work. As a matter of fact, I support myself through college.

00:09:44.810 - 00:09:58.940

I, you know, I remember I was—I think the program still is called—what is it? Oh, work-study program. I was on a work-study program since–since day one.

00:09:59.450 - 00:10:10.720

Yeah, I did have, you know, financial assistance from my brother, because he's already working. And–and then my—and then my parents immigrant to here.

00:10:10.770 - 00:10:24.430

That's right. When I was already a freshman in—at U of H. And then, you know, summer comes, so I start, you know, working at–at different—I remember working at this bowling

00:10:24.500 - 00:10:32.060

place in South Main, which is closed. all very close. I work at McDonald's. And then I worked for the work-study program.

00:10:32.570 - 00:10:49.050

And basically, that's how I support myself through college. Yeah, that's really impressive that you were able to maintain, like, financial, I guess, independence. Yeah, I did. And then in the summertime, I started working for hospitals when I was, like, in

00:10:49.050 - 00:11:03.240

sophomore years. And at that time, I think there's this one called, I think that's San—I think there's this hospital called Center Pavilion, which is, you know, now taken over by MD

00:11:03.350 - 00:11:13.700

Anderson, you know, that building. And I worked for—oh, I worked for Rosewood Hospital, but they—last time, I don't know if it still exists, maybe not.

00:11:14.250 - 00:11:25.570

And I work at–I worked at Texas Children's, TCH. Yeah, I worked for Texas Children, you know, when I was kind of between junior and senior year.

00:11:26.480 - 00:11:36.780

And I remember riding the bus to go to work, and it was freezing. There was like the—yeah, I don't know how many years ago, that it was snowing. And I took the bus to go to work in medical center.

00:11:38.010 - 00:11:50.410

Yeah, so yeah. So worked in the hospital, I actually worked in–in the food service, that we prepared, you know, to run the tray line for–for that. And yep.

00:11:51.480 - 00:12:05.640

And after that, that's when they said, "Well, you know, you need to get a master. And you need to become a registered dietician." You know, there's different pathway you can do that. You can get a master, and then you can take the exam, and you can, you know, go for an

00:12:05.660 - 00:12:17.360

internship, and things like that. So I tried all these different paths and end up, I think, at Louisiana Tech. They–they give me some stipend. Yeah, they offered me some stipend.

00:12:17.960 - 00:12:35.460

And I borrow, I borrowed a student loan. And that's how I get my master. And throughout, like your undergraduate and also your master's education, do you have some, like defining moments that you still look back on?

00:12:37.530 - 00:12:52.680

Actually, after that, I think I really liked—and during—okay, well, you know, at that time, now I think it's much more diverse in–in the choices for a dietitian. But at that time, we basically have choices: whether

00:12:52.830 - 00:13:08.430

you want to go into management, or whether you go into–into clinical. Okay. And somehow, I choose management, you know, even though, I mean, the background is the same, you know. You still go through the whole program, and then that's when the jobs, you know, when

00:13:08.430 - 00:13:21.220

they apply at jobs, that's when–when they come in with their experience. And I think it's a—I think it's I'm a people person, I have to say. And I choose—I–I—yeah, I go for the management route.

00:13:21.290 - 00:13:34.570

Even afterwards, actually, I become—I go back to clinical, to my–my path, or my career. And I kind of doing both at that time. And, excuse me,

00:13:34.570 - 00:13:49.690

so that's how it goes. I do have some good, I think, experience with–with bosses, with my bosses, and I actually, you know, when I go into management, I go–go into what

00:13:49.730 - 00:14:03.530

they call, like, business and industrial, that—you know, besides working for hospital, well, this is a hospital. But this other big sector of, you know, food service and industrial feedings, like–like, for

00:14:03.530 - 00:14:17.070

example, Dow Chemical. You know, at one time, I was over there—well, I did not run that account, but there was, like, you know, the Dow—like for example, Dow Chemical, this big company, they have the–the cafeteria to serve their

00:14:17.070 - 00:14:26.140

employee and stuff like that. And even in hospital, like all the hospital have cafeterias, you know? They call that, you know, food service and the clinical side.

00:14:26.520 - 00:14:40.440

So that's how I get into it. And I ended up working for Memorial Hermann, you know, started as a clinical dietitian, but then they have the food service part open.

00:14:40.990 - 00:14:54.360

And that's when I, you know, apply it, to go into management in food service. Yeah. That's cool. Sounds like you got a good mix of both like management and also clinical. Yes, I did, I did.

00:14:54.460 - 00:15:13.590

And that's what enabled me to–to become self employed. And I was also wondering, because food and nutrition seems like a really individualized path because you have to, like, understand each patient's unique situation, it's not— So what's kind

00:15:13.590 - 00:15:24.990

of your process like to come up with individual treatment plans? Oh, for in—for–for consultation, it has to be individual. Definitely, definitely has to be individual, because everyone is different.

00:15:25.400 - 00:15:36.420

Everyone's dietary habit is different. On top of that, you have to consider their diagnosis, you know, and also you need to consider, you know, how their financial, because you

00:15:36.420 - 00:15:50.220

know, what good if you tell people, "You need to eat this, eat this," and they–they don't have access to it. You know, what are you going to do? You know, we all hear—nowadays, even you still hear the preaching of, you know, fresh fruit and vegetable, you know, but the people, you

00:15:50.220 - 00:16:03.160

know, don't–don't— cannot get hold of it, and don't know how to prepare it, or don't have time to prepare it. You know, it's— sometime you sad, you—it's sad when I hear some—it's in the news that oh,

00:16:03.560 - 00:16:17.390

these little kids, you know, all they grew up is what, chicken nuggets? I mean, there's this news that these little kids, maybe not in this country, but in England, that all she'd been eating, all for, what, last

00:16:17.590 - 00:16:32.360

seven years, eight years, is chicken nuggets? I said, "That poor kid!" I don't know what kind of a lifestyle, you know, that poor kid is going to–to have, but it is so, I would say, tempting

00:16:33.610 - 00:16:45.350

and convenient for the parents to just get some fast food and say, "Hey, that's dinner. That's lunch." And, you know, that-that's a–that's a big effort. People—it is a big

00:16:45.430 - 00:17:00.950

effort in–in getting nutritious meals. It-it's sometimes easier to say than do. For people that is... that doesn't have to concern about income and expenses, then it's a

00:17:01.020 - 00:17:13.440

different story. But for working parents, like middle class, working, there's hardly—if a mom, like a single mom, a single mom working two jobs, and

00:17:13.440 - 00:17:25.760

then you talk to them about nutritions? I would say, "I barely have enough time to sleep." That is–that is a big problem. You know? And like one in four adults in this country is obese.

00:17:26.820 - 00:17:38.760

Which means that, like, they are about 30% above the ideal body weight. One in four is considered obese in the US! That's a lot. Like,

00:17:38.820 - 00:17:52.630

we have, what, 330 million? So, like, it's close to, what, 80 million? 80 million people is overweight. And on top of that, all the other diseases that come with overweight:

00:17:53.130 - 00:18:05.520

heart disease, diabetes, you name it. I mean, we can probably spend this whole meeting talking about that. Yeah, it's definitely a really big issue. And I guess it's kind of easy to forget that, like, so many

00:18:05.520 - 00:18:23.040

different factors go into diet, not just like— like, so many financial factors. And culture. That's another thing too. But—anyway, so that is all very challenging. So, because you also work with patients who might have like eating disorders, do you

00:18:23.090 - 00:18:37.230

find it important to also be, like, well versed in mental health support? Oh, excuse me, what did you say? Because some of your patients might have eating disorders, do you find that it's important to also

00:18:37.290 - 00:18:50.260

like talk to them about mental health support? Well, you know, at that time when I practiced—just remember, I don't even practice anymore. So at that time, that many years ago, you talk about eating disorders, yes, there's

00:18:50.260 - 00:19:03.230

like, you know, anorexic, and all these things. That was the—at one time, that was what it is. And I did some, you know, consultation in that regard. But mental health, mental health, the question of mental health,

00:19:03.900 - 00:19:14.980

Emily, I think it's only gonna in the last past five years, it start bringing into awareness. Previously, first of all, people don't talk about it. Just like breast cancer.

00:19:15.410 - 00:19:29.480

Nobody talked about it, you know, 10 years ago, or 15 years ago. So now, it's just because of COVID and everything, you bring up to the front that you keep hearing about it, and if you hear about it, you talk about it, then you can come up with solution.

00:19:30.170 - 00:19:43.570

That's my thought about, you know, the whole things about any–any of this thing, that like–like really, mental health, I think if you look back, I think it's only the past five years it start bringing a little bit more upfront,

00:19:43.810 - 00:19:57.470

due to some celebrities. And due to the, you know, media that bring it. Previously, nobody even—when I was with HOPE Clinic, we did have a psy-psy-psychologist, and we have that, but I left

00:19:57.470 - 00:20:13.940

then, and this is like—okay, I left in 2016. So I would say no more than, like, eight years ago, that, you know, we—you know, the–the refugee coming and people like that, that they start talking a little bit about this mental

00:20:13.940 - 00:20:25.920

health. Previously, mental health in—especially in the Asian country, you don't talk about it. Tough it up. Right? That's before your time, almost.

00:20:28.070 - 00:20:44.040

Yeah. I think it's definitely become more like, I guess, prevalent to talk about it in recent years. Yeah, now–now, it's because of, you know, like some celebrity, like Naomi, you know, she is the champion, and she start talking about it.

00:20:44.040 - 00:21:00.670

And Simone Biles, I mean, there are all these other big celebrity that, you know, then that's good that they can use their influence to bring up awareness. And then when you bring awareness, then you think about treatment, then you can talk about it more

00:21:00.670 - 00:21:17.850

openly. Yeah. So like, I guess in general, do you see like a clear link between, like, the field of diet and nutrition and also mental health? I would say indirectly, especially like those with—people with

00:21:17.850 - 00:21:29.830

anorexic, you know, that people that are anorexic, they have underlying, you know, but then they–they think—they use, you know, the food as part of that they can control.

00:21:30.470 - 00:21:44.890

So they say, "Okay, you know, I can go ahead and eat because you kept bugging me to eat," but then turn around and then throw up. Yeah. And–and that is part of, you know, they—maybe they use it almost as a tool to–to–to

00:21:49.450 - 00:22:04.870

actually kind—maybe cry out, to ask for help. Yeah. If—and–and like, I would say, yeah, that–that probably is that with the nutrition, and the link about mental health, if you want to talk about that.

00:22:05.060 - 00:22:23.990

But overall, I don't think there's—or maybe I'm wrong, that there's any big studies about, you know, intake, food intake and mental health, or—I think there's many other things related to food, but mental health—unless

00:22:26.090 - 00:22:42.200

there's something, some deficiency, you know, there would–would—that probably need more research to identify. With like—if you are, you know, like a certain nutrient that make you more prone to be depressed,

00:22:43.070 - 00:22:58.270

you know. But again, I mean, no authority to mention that, but that will be something interesting. Yeah, that makes a lot of sense. And so moving on to, like, yourself in this career, so what are some

00:22:58.270 - 00:23:11.220

challenges that you faced in this field? My field as a dietitian? You know, I have to say, I am blessed. I've been—I mean, I've

00:23:11.220 - 00:23:29.170

been practicing more than 40 years. And I have to say, you know, all my life, my path act—you know, is– is pretty smooth. You know, I don't think—maybe at

00:23:29.170 - 00:23:45.630

that—maybe I did face–face some discrimination, but I couldn't really—if so, I don't even remember that. Like my career path, I started–I started in business feeding, business and industrial feeding, which, you know, I worked for...

00:23:47.340 - 00:24:01.320

let me see. Actually, I worked for TIRR. I worked for TIRR, I was working as a dietitian at TIRR, and at that time, before I worked for TIRR, I was working for Memorial Hermann.

00:24:01.710 - 00:24:13.690

But at that time, it was in downtown Houston. There wasn't—I don't think even there's a Memorial Hospital at Downtown Houston. And I worked from there after I get my–get my master's.

00:24:13.690 - 00:24:28.350

And then I worked for—I go to work for TIRR. And TIRR at that time was contract to Marriott, and–and my boss he is—he worked for Marriott, but I am under TIRR's payroll.

00:24:28.840 - 00:24:41.690

And he was very supportive. And–and after that, TIRRS—oh, after that, I switched completely to industrial feedings. I worked for this company called Canteen.

00:24:42.760 - 00:24:53.440

I think—and Canteen is now a part—is under—is the predecessor of Compass Group International. It's a big food conglomerate. And I think they are in UK not Paris.

00:24:53.440 - 00:25:09.720

That's the headquarter, one time I—yeah, and the huge, big, conglomerate, they do all kinds of feeding. All the, you know, university—I don't know, I think Rice–Rice cafeteria—as a matter of fact, one time I end up at Rice, running a cafeteria for the student center.

00:25:10.660 - 00:25:24.290

Yeah, come to think— and I think, you know, I don't know, I probably was—that was in between several–several opportunity. But—so I end up, I work for—so all these big food service

00:25:24.290 - 00:25:38.090

company, huge in business, all the college campus, even University of Houston, Rice maybe is self-op. I don't know whether Rice is self operating,

00:25:38.090 - 00:25:50.980

like in the dorm and everything, or it is not a food service company. So it's a huge business. Yeah. And after that, let me see, oh, at one time, I opened my little—my own sandwich

00:25:50.980 - 00:26:05.420

shop for a couple of years. Just hard working for–for anybody. And then I go to work for Memorial Hermann for–for quite a long time in the–in the food service.

00:26:07.620 - 00:26:24.840

And after that–after that, that's when I start working for–for a long term care facility, and I think is still in existence. It's called... the company, the

00:26:24.840 - 00:26:32.620

headquarter is in Dallas, it's the Buckner Baptist Benevolence. And they have–they have long term care. And that's when I first

00:26:33.310 - 00:26:48.970

experienced long term care, and it kind of, in a way, became my passion for long term care. And–and after that, let me see. And then I become self-employed for–for maybe—for

00:26:51.250 - 00:27:04.070

a long time. It's not like, you know, I have my contracts, I work for contracts, I work for—I got some contracts from the state, you know, such as the Meals on Wheels program that I've been their dietician for,

00:27:05.140 - 00:27:16.270

I don't know, 15 years or 20 years. And then I, you know, have contracts with small hospitals all over and nursing home. Yeah. And

00:27:16.340 - 00:27:36.060

then, you know, started HOPE Clinic. Yeah, so what's the—what was the most fulfilling part about working in long term care? Long term care is a—even, like, I started long term care more than 20 years ago.

00:27:36.890 - 00:27:50.180

And at that time, you know, and you see much—a lot of changes, you know, more guideline, you know, so on and so forth. And long term care is, you know, as you know, the need for long term care

00:27:50.180 - 00:28:07.620

is increasing every single day. You know, like, there's 10,000 people turn 65 every day in this country. And–and that's the reason, like after I left HOPE Clinic, I started, you know, I have this website

00:28:07.680 - 00:28:20.340

called Elderly Select, that basically is a search engine, that people don't have to give out information, but it's a search engine to find housing, you know, for–for–for yourself or for your loved ones.

00:28:22.130 - 00:28:39.640

Long term care is going to be, I think, the–the next very challenging issues, you know, for–for the US. Because it's already—studies have shown that in—by what, 2030, which is not very far off, you're talking about, you know, eight

00:28:39.640 - 00:28:53.180

years, that, you know, one out of four people in this country is 65 and older. That is a huge population. And, you know, the trend is, you

00:28:53.180 - 00:29:07.360

know, with the political thing, that more people is needing care. And people don't know how expensive long term care, they're so surprised. And even people with

00:29:07.360 - 00:29:22.770

insurance, it's still a big thing, it's very challenging. And people want to live in their home. And if people want to live in their home, they somehow will need some care. Because, you know, just what we call the

00:29:22.850 - 00:29:38.370

activity of daily livings, you know, bathing, eating, all these things need help. So it is, you know, and you're talk to, you know, you have this term called "sandwich population." That's

00:29:38.370 - 00:29:50.490

like, you know, for— that's about—they are talking about your parents, Emily. Your parents and your, you know, your mom or your parents are stuck in the middle of a kind of sandwich. Because they have you and they have your

00:29:50.590 - 00:30:06.180

grandparents, you know? So that's why that is quite a lot challenging, and with, you know, the political... modern political atmosphere right now, you know,

00:30:07.620 - 00:30:23.410

the–the Biden administration, the bill whatever it called, the infrastructure they pass it, what's the other one? Human–human infrastructure, whatever the other bill called, they have part of it they want to address to

00:30:23.410 - 00:30:35.480

provide care for the elderly, which will be good, you know, they—I think right now they just passed the big thing about the–the drug program, that Medicare is able to negotiate the pharmaceutical

00:30:35.800 - 00:30:51.930

company to lower the drug costs for–for elderly, which is a big thing. But, you know, with the care of the elderly, it's so expensive. It's so expensive, and–and people just don't realize that, yeah, that

00:30:51.930 - 00:31:10.220

will be very interesting, both in–in reality, as well as to see what legislature's going to do about it. Yeah, for sure. And so was Elderly Select, was that the website where like people can find senior

00:31:10.220 - 00:31:25.140

care without entering like personal information? Yes, yes it's easily—you can just click it. And they have—I think there's about 400 facility, and in

00:31:25.140 - 00:31:40.280

there you can also see there's home health agency, to see how much they charge you, count the difference. If people want to stay at home they'll need some kind of home health and all different thing, and some of the resources, and some information

00:31:42.460 - 00:32:00.410

about physician, they are special-specialized in geriatric care, that people may find it to be more helpful. So basically, you know, it's a lot of information and–and—that people can–can start, I would say, you know, really

00:32:03.440 - 00:32:17.430

more educate about yourself to see—because I do list some of the price, there's some pricing in there. Maybe it's not update, but I don't think—it's about the same. So you have some general idea, and people, probably many people don't

00:32:17.700 - 00:32:27.210

know, Medicare doesn't pay for long term care. Only Medicaid does. And Medicaid basically is welfare, that when you run off all

00:32:27.210 - 00:32:43.330

your money, that's when you're eligible for Medicare—Medicaid. Yeah, Medi-Medicare doesn't pay for any long term, unless if you come in betw—like, okay, if you are in, like, for example, if you had a

00:32:43.330 - 00:32:57.780

stroke, okay? And you're going to the hospitals, and the doctor take care of you, then discharge you. But, you know, when they discharge you, maybe you still some PT and OT to get you back to kind of like

00:32:57.890 - 00:33:11.420

normal or something. And that's when they send you to a rehab center, or send you to some places that you can have some rehab, and they will pay up to 100 days, like three months, okay?

00:33:11.420 - 00:33:25.830

And then after three months, then that's it! You know, hopefully you recover after three months, that you can hold up a cup, you know, or you can do something. If not, you definitely need some home care.

00:33:27.630 - 00:33:37.760

And–and–and people don't realize that. People don't realize that their Medicare doesn't pay for any home health at all.

00:33:38.920 - 00:33:54.780

Now– now, well, things may change with the political thing. Legislature have to pass law and register and find the money, you know, to pay for it. Yeah. Yeah, thank you for creating this tool,

00:33:55.170 - 00:34:07.040

because yeah, I guess most people aren't like aware of so many financial details. Yes. Yeah. And–and like everything—like I said, you know, including like, you say, depression,

00:34:07.950 - 00:34:24.780

if people know about it, people start talking about it, then something can happen. That basically is–is–is, you know, how it is, that, you know, you know and then you kind of like, you know, be an advocate for you. You need to talk to legislature, you need to like support

00:34:25.480 - 00:34:39.670

the–the–the elected official, what they–what they are willing to support, and go from there. Yeah, starting conversations is like super important. So, I guess moving on a

00:34:39.670 - 00:34:51.320

little to HOPE Clinic. Could you speak a bit generally about like its mission and its role in the Houston community? Oh, HOPE clinic, you know, let me see,

00:34:51.320 - 00:35:05.180

2002. So next year is going to be 20 year anniversary, come to think of it. And it started as, you know, Beverly

00:35:05.330 - 00:35:18.890

and Rogene, Beverly is always very, very an advocate, and so is Rogene. And then—and, well, Beverly is a dietician, and so she and I, we know from that aspect

00:35:19.080 - 00:35:32.690

of it. And she is—one time, and she said, "Karen, why don't you come to this meeting? We have this organization called Asian American Health Coalition. We're gonna start meeting at–at the health

00:35:32.790 - 00:35:45.690

department over there at 610, Harris County Health Department." I said, "Okay!" So that's how I get— know and get involved with it. But—and at that time, they would keep saying, "Oh, you know, we need

00:35:45.690 - 00:35:59.170

to–we need to have a clinic. We need to have a clinic because there's so much need, there's all this language barrier," so and so forth. And that's how HOPE Clinic was started, just from—and

00:36:03.120 - 00:36:16.700

at that time, there's three components of the HOPE Clinic, okay? There's the Asian American Health Coalition. And there's the Chinese Community Center. And there is the Chinese Baptist Church.

00:36:17.620 - 00:36:31.540

I think Beverly probably sent you all that whole thing, because she and I, we belong to a Chinese Baptist Church, okay? And at that time, and even nowadays, the church has a lot membership that are physicians, nurses, and they

00:36:31.540 - 00:36:43.980

already doing some mission work, you know, the church. And the Chinese Community Center offers the space, you know, they have at their old address, which is across from where they are now, that they say,

00:36:43.980 - 00:36:57.830

"Oh, we have this room, you can use it, you know, you can use it." And so then—and–and then the Asian American Health Coalition as the agency. So that's how we started, so we recruit some church members

00:36:57.830 - 00:37:11.910

who are physicians that want to donate some time. And then we use the space at the Chinese Community Center. And–and then, you know, the Asian American Health Coalition, that become the physical agency.

00:37:12.360 - 00:37:23.480

So, at that time, we kind of just doing volunteer. We just start doing it. So I go there to help out, to help set up. And also, at that time, I think that Beverly had been writing

00:37:23.480 - 00:37:37.470

some grant, and she—Aetna Foundation, I think so, she said, and then she got this grant from Aetna Foundation. And they—maybe

00:37:37.860 - 00:37:51.030

50—anyway, I forgot what's the amount. So they would say, "Okay, now we get this money, then we can pay the staff." And so they—and we talk about—and they said, "But Karen, your–your hours are quite

00:37:51.030 - 00:38:04.050

flexible." Because I was self employed already. I can, like, schedule which day I want to go to facility center, and she said, "Why don't you, you know, why don't you become our administrator of the clinic?"

00:38:05.090 - 00:38:18.830

And she said, "Well, there's only one catch." And she said, "Well, it is quarter-time pay and full-time work." I said, "Sure, why not." So that's how we started that. And we started with four hours a month.

00:38:19.360 - 00:38:33.170

And at that time, this is when I was, like, you know, even though we're open four hours a month, we, you know, did start getting the—all we—is trying to let people know about us, so you start going to meetings, you know?

00:38:33.340 - 00:38:42.230

It's kind of going to meetings with the—with this organization, that organization, so that's part of what I do. Because everyone working full-time, if you're working full-time, they're work into time.

00:38:43.600 - 00:38:56.200

And so I can kind of, like, you know, have the flexibility that, okay, if I have to go to a meeting on this day, then I can schedule to go to a facility that I'm contracted to on another day, because those are pretty flexible.

00:38:57.420 - 00:39:10.090

And that's how it all started. Yeah. And there was like— so we, yeah, so we, you know, over there, and we have a couple of physicians from Chinese Baptist

00:39:10.090 - 00:39:26.080

Church, and, you know, some, you know, peop—nurses, and–and so that's how–how it, you know, started. There's doctors come to the clinic, and we just advertise by mouth. I don't even—I don't think—

00:39:27.390 - 00:39:47.040

oh, even the Chinese Community Center would tell their—the people who use it that, "Oh, you know, this date we have this clinic, there's the doctors come to see you." And we charge five pe—$5 a person, because, like, we kind of want to–to set it up as like that, you know,

00:39:47.040 - 00:40:00.300

people use the—this service, don't think it's free. Because somehow, with this idea of "free," that you're being taken for granted, that they, you know, people get spoiled, Emily. You know, when you say "free,"

00:40:00.300 - 00:40:10.000

then they say, "Oh, why do I have to pay it?" No. You say, "Okay, it's $5." Anybody can–can give, $5 is less than what a Starbuck will charge nowadays.

00:40:10.570 - 00:40:20.680

I don't even know how much a Starbuck charge. So, you know, that's how it is. And that–that $5 basically don't cover anything. Because, you know, CCC, well,

00:40:20.680 - 00:40:34.800

we have to pay some, you know, just buying new paper supplies or like, you know, office supply, that cost money, you know, so we–we–we have to charge $5 per person in that regard. I mean, if somebody

00:40:34.800 - 00:40:45.810

say they don't have $5, of course we will see them. But so far for my experience, nobody ever say they cannot afford $5, yeah. And so that's how we do that.

00:40:46.320 - 00:41:02.110

And the other day, I was in a meeting for the groundbreaking—not for groundbreaking, for kind of like supporter for the HOPE Clinic for the new building over there, that Donna Cole sponsored a very nice dinner.

00:41:02.630 - 00:41:14.150

So I was there. And–and at that time, we were, you know, talking about, you know, how–how far along we do. And Andrea mentioned

00:41:14.150 - 00:41:28.430

something about Katrina. And that's right. Katrina put HOPE Clinic on the map. Because I was–I was working, I was working as a full time administrator there. And I remember there's this Catherine, Dr.

00:41:28.430 - 00:41:43.850

Catherine Tsai. And there's this LVM, I forgot her name. And so like, you know, we know about Katrina, you know, coming. And all these, you know, Vietnamese people coming from Louisiana, because they're fishermen, they're

00:41:43.890 - 00:41:59.960

coming from Louisiana because of Katrina. And everybody was congregated at the Hong Kong, Hong Kong Mall over there on Bellaire. And–and so they say—so somehow,

00:42:00.030 - 00:42:14.150

who contact me and say, "Karen, can you come? Can you have your physicians and people come to–come to Hong Kong Mall? Because we have all of these Vietnamese refugee that, you know, try—coming

00:42:16.570 - 00:42:34.720

to Houston and need help!" And so sure, and so then I call and, you know, get the doctors, say, "Okay, tomorrow we're not going to open. We're going to go directly to Hong Kong Mall." And so we go to Hong Kong Mall, and we set up and then we had some—we have couple employees at that time,

00:42:34.820 - 00:42:47.480

like there's–there's this, there's this aid, that they speaks Vietnamese. Excuse me. And–and so, like, so we were there.

00:42:47.530 - 00:43:00.980

Yeah, and well, I mean, there's a lot of people, so we start—I was doing everything. You start triage, need to running around, whatever. And–and that was kind of exciting,

00:43:01.580 - 00:43:16.080

you know, got your adrenaline, you saw this patient, you want to do—triage them. And also because of–of–of at that time, that–that we have—I remember Kaiser Permanente, they sent

00:43:16.400 - 00:43:32.430

nurses. I don't know—I see—they sent nurses. I don't know about doctors. Maybe the doctor is in—at NLG, but we have the nurses come to HOPE Clinic to help us triage. Yeah. From–from California for about two weeks or something, or month or something,

00:43:32.560 - 00:43:46.090

they were on rotation. So that was—that's how it is, and–and that we keep all the data. Beverly does a very good job, she—I know she was writing something that how many patients we see, and–and like I was in the middle

00:43:46.090 - 00:44:01.110

of it. Was right there in the middle of it through the whole thing, and–and that's what kind of like people, "Oh, there's this little clinic called HOPE Clinic that is made by volunteers." And they have–they have

00:44:01.230 - 00:44:13.030

like language capability. They speaks Cantonese, Vietnamese, Spanish, Hispanic, and English, and that's how it–how it goes.

00:44:14.410 - 00:44:26.310

Yeah, yeah. Yeah, so Hurricane Katrina seems like a really big like turning point. So how did HOPE Clinic grow and change otherwise, during your time at—

00:44:26.930 - 00:44:38.280

Well, we started getting more grant money. You know, that, you know—and also, at that time, the administrator, she also is the grant writer. I think her name is Jennifer.

00:44:39.440 - 00:44:47.070

I forgot her—is her last name Jones? Beverly would know. Jennifer Jones? Yes, Jennifer Jones. So she was like, she also know how to

00:44:47.070 - 00:44:59.460

write grants, she was administrator. And so we get some more money, we get some more grant, and that's when we move to the Corporate Drive. Yeah. Yeah, you remind me I need to drink some water too, so

00:44:59.460 - 00:45:09.120

excuse me. No worries. Alright, excuse me. No worries at all. Yeah, so that was—that's how it is, and, you know, we have more money, we have more grant. And–

00:45:09.720 - 00:45:24.200

and like, you know, for example, like, you know, we have—that's when we have some program already, and Coleman, Coleman, you know, give us grant to do mammogram screening. And so I was, I mean, I

00:45:24.200 - 00:45:36.400

was in charge of the mammogram, the program director for that. So we start, like, going everywhere. We going—we have, like, once–once a month screening, and at first we'll go to different places, we'll go to

00:45:37.490 - 00:45:53.060

this apartment over there by–by Hobby Airport. I think that apartment, that complex now, I think they said that they need to tear it down because of the condition, it's so deteriorating. But we remember we

00:45:53.060 - 00:46:06.120

went there and we went to, you know, outreach to the–to the Cambodian people, going to their temple to do mammogram, going to everywhere.

00:46:06.740 - 00:46:18.480

And–and so that's how we become known. And–and then we hire Andrea, the current CEO. Jennifer left, and we hire Andrea.

00:46:19.350 - 00:46:35.370

And, yeah, it was a very challenging time. Kind of like—it's–it's kind of—and–and like, at that time, you know, our medical director left. She–she married, she left, she moved to Dallas.

00:46:36.630 - 00:46:51.690

So we almost have to be hiring locum physicians to keep the clinic going. It was–it was a very, very challenging time. And–and I remember, and that's when I have the

00:46:52.260 - 00:47:08.860

car accident. I remember I had to take a check to displace-I forgot, what was the check for? It had do with some kind of insurance for the clinic. So I have to take this check, and I had to take it to bring it to

00:47:08.860 - 00:47:23.370

somebody, to—I forgot. But anyway, you know, it was kind of a—it was kind of like a rainy day. And I had to go to the medical center, I had to go to the medical center because I was

00:47:23.400 - 00:47:38.690

taking 59 from Southwest, from HOPE Clinic, Corporate area, to go to—the check has to be for some kind of an insurance. So that's why I have to, you know, make sure that we got it covered, that we don't get

00:47:38.720 - 00:47:52.310

left something. And–and then it's like, and–and then an 18-wheeler, you know, rear–reared me on 59, before 610 route. It was rainy, it was wet, too.

00:47:53.320 - 00:48:06.120

And, you know, by the grace of God, I walked out of it. I walked out. I mean, you know, they called 911, all the–the things, and–and it was kind of like a little bit—about 1pm and I

00:48:06.120 - 00:48:22.790

was thinking, "Oh I need to go ahead, maybe after I come back, I want to get some pizza for the staff so that they don't feel—you know, they feel a little bit down or something." And interestingly, my–my daughter, which is in summer, because she was working some place as a volunteer, and then

00:48:22.790 - 00:48:35.720

she saw me standing on the freeway. And she stop and say, "Mom, what are you doing here?" I said, "Well, just had an accident." And of course, I called my husband and stuff like that. But there's another interesting—and

00:48:36.390 - 00:48:47.440

after that when I go back to the clinic, I told them, "Well, I was in the hospital, they do X-ray, the same thing." Because it's not my fault. Somebody rear-ended me!

00:48:47.440 - 00:48:56.500

An 18-wheeler rear ended, and I saw my car spinning. And luckily, it was raining. Everybody's driving slowly. And if not, nobody else hit me.

00:48:56.500 - 00:49:10.980

But I was like, you know, spinning from one side of the freeway to the other side, and then back, and then kind of like, you know, on those stuff on the–on the guardrail. Yeah. And so later on, I–I went—I think I went

00:49:11.270 - 00:49:22.710

back—this happened probably is on Thursday or Friday. And I went back to work at the clinic on a Monday or something. And I told my, you know, "Well, HOPE Clinic is going to be okay.

00:49:23.050 - 00:49:34.180

I know it's going to be okay because I'm okay." That's how I–I remember this. I don't have permission or something, whatever, but I said, "You know what?

00:49:34.280 - 00:49:49.190

HOPE Clinic is going to be okay." And we go through some rough time, but that's how it goes. That's so scary, but I'm really happy that you made it out okay. Yeah, yeah, you know, it's just—I wasn't worried.

00:49:49.800 - 00:50:04.400

I don't know. I was like, God, I was in there, waiting so long in the ER, and–and they—because I don't have any blood or thing running over me. So they said, "Okay, just wait until you got your X-ray." I said, "Okay." But anyway, yeah.

00:50:06.770 - 00:50:18.940

Yeah. And I know you also mentioned, like, the—offering mammograms earlier. Was that related to the Phoenix Project? Yes. And while I was–while I was the–the director for this program, I was

00:50:18.940 - 00:50:29.280

diagnosed with breast cancer. So that's how it is. That's why I sent you the interview, the—she—and then, of course, we partnered with Light and Salt.

00:50:29.780 - 00:50:43.110

And the girl who interviewed me, she is Helen's daughter. And I think she probably wanted to share my experience to encourage people for mammogram, or whatever it is, stuff like

00:50:43.370 - 00:51:01.100

that. So, that's what that is. So I count my blessings every day. So how has your personal experience with cancer kind of changed your outlook on life? Well, that was even—just also,

00:51:01.100 - 00:51:11.550

not just out-outlook. Well, first of all, I kind of, like, I'm glad and I'm proud to say that, you know, there's no regrets. There's no regrets in life.

00:51:12.670 - 00:51:27.730

And now, I mean, since I'm retired and since I'm—that, you know, what happened to some of my other friend, and what happened to people you know, we are all not getting younger, not like you, definitely. So I–I like it.

00:51:27.780 - 00:51:38.600

I already said that, like, I try not to plan things too ahead of time, because you don't know what's going to happen. I would say, I would probably try to plan things maybe just a year ahead of it.

00:51:39.530 - 00:51:52.940

Yeah, including all my traveling. And–and when I—now, right now, when I want to do anything, I go ahead and do it. I don't–I don't–I don't wait. I mean, if I want to do something, then I just do it.

00:51:54.280 - 00:52:08.390

Yeah. And I'm always, you know, I always kind of said that I'm being the—I always look at the–the–the glass half full. I don't look at the things—the glass half empty, I always look at it half full.

00:52:09.820 - 00:52:25.240

So that basically is–is how I see things. I think that's a really good way of going about life. So— Yeah, and–and then today I was looking at, you know, how—about how divided this country, all

00:52:25.280 - 00:52:41.840

this—the hatred is appalling. I mean, why you spend all this energy to hate somebody? Because if you–if you spend all your energy, you're not–you're not going to—first of all, it's very bad for anybody's physical

00:52:41.840 - 00:52:55.940

health, talk about depression. If you spend all your energy trying to hate somebody, first of all, you become very, very unhappy yourself. And if you being so unhappy yourself and being all of that thing,

00:52:56.270 - 00:53:11.890

your immune system is going to attack yourself, that in the way you cannot doing anybody any good, really. And–and, you know, why all this negative about it? If I don't come out, sit down, you know, be

00:53:11.890 - 00:53:27.270

civilized—I hate to use the word, but yeah, be civilized and talk about the difference, and–and then find something that can agree upon, and move on. I mean, you're done—today, I was carpool with,

00:53:27.890 - 00:53:44.960

you know, friend, I'm going to the meeting, I said, "It–it really bothers me, you know, when I ask, 'You think we are leaving a better world for next generations?'" I cannot say yes, Emily, I cannot say yes.

00:53:45.810 - 00:53:59.300

And that is sad. You know, we work so hard, so and so forth. And I mean, I don't have any grandchildren, but I still just look at, you know, my–my kids, they are—they—their generation

00:53:59.340 - 00:54:13.260

may be okay, you know, what, Generation X, Generation Y, Generation X, Y, Z, whatever. But if you look at it, it's just like, I mean, you know, now with the–the meeting, you know, for the—in Europe,

00:54:13.940 - 00:54:32.590

the, you know, global thing, it is all this pollution, all this thing, all this, you know, the air, the water, the global warming thing, that is, I don't know, it's really kind of, like, if you ask me, what—one thing depress me is another

00:54:32.630 - 00:54:46.690

thing abou that, because it is—it's not just, it's just going to affect so many people. I mean, even us here, I mean–I mean, we had Harvey, we had, what, we have this and that.

00:54:47.860 - 00:55:06.550

And that I think is like, I-I-I really hope, you know, that—and I hope the, you know, instead of going to the moon, let's take care of the blue planet, for humanity. Yeah, that's what is needed, you know,

00:55:07.910 - 00:55:22.930

in my little thought and opinion. Yeah. Yeah, I definitely agree with that. And like the wisdom that, you know, the big company like the big, you know, like Formosa Plastic,

00:55:23.020 - 00:55:37.120

all these big company, or you know, fossil fuel, they need to spend the money to have their address. Like, for example, when I was in Hawaii, when we go shopping, it was kind of interesting. Everybody bring their own bag.

00:55:37.920 - 00:55:52.290

And if you don't bring your bag, you know, they charge you. They don't charge you a lot, just 10 cents, and that 10 cents make people bring their own bag. I mean, you know, changed the behavior. And like, you know, I tried to really

00:55:53.830 - 00:56:09.630

use—well, I tried to, you know, take their plastic back to recycling center. I don't know whether they really recycle or not, I don't know. But this is something—I know all the pollution, the air we breathe, the–the water we drink, the food

00:56:09.630 - 00:56:28.320

we take, that to me is–is–is going to be some very challenging time, I think, for everybody on this planet. Yeah. Yeah, I think things are definitely pretty

00:56:28.740 - 00:56:43.140

complicated. But yeah, like making little changes can sometimes make all the difference, too. Yeah, so, I mean, here—I–I—like, I was—I just come back from this other thing. You know, the National Park we went to, Zion.

00:56:46.890 - 00:57:08.140

We went to Bryce–Bryce, and went to Grand Canyon. And like, over there, you see the water level of Lake Mead. They–they going to—this terrible, that the water level, that they'd been—they say they have dropped for the past 20 years, you know,

00:57:09.420 - 00:57:22.360

so, I mean, here in Houston, we are fortunate because, you know, we have the rainfall. But out there in the–in the West? And then of course, don't—not to mention about the forest fire.

00:57:23.450 - 00:57:40.520

I don't know. But okay, there's another 24 hours discussion, if not longer, topics. Yeah, there's definitely a lot of—lot to talk about there. Yeah, no, people need to start talking about it, and hopefully we'll do

00:57:40.520 - 00:57:54.470

something again, the same thing of what we are—been just talking about it, too. Yeah, for sure. So, kind of going back to HOPE clinic if that's okay? Can you envision,

00:57:54.470 - 00:58:12.560

like, the model of HOPE Clinic kind of being replicated elsewhere besides Houston? HOPE Clinic itself is unique. And–and like, you know, because of the most diverse city in the US

00:58:12.840 - 00:58:26.640

here, right here in Houston. And also, Houstonians are very generous, from the foundation, and from the government, from individual, whatever.

00:58:27.390 - 00:58:43.250

And, you know, now HOPE Clinic is called Hope Community Center and Clinic. So they may be more involved in the future of "what can we do?" "What can be done?" And I was talking to Andrea at that meeting.

00:58:43.250 - 00:59:02.480

I said, "Andrea, let's talk about elderly care." I said, "Now, that's what's your next step you need to do." You need to have some—about—you know, some program. And–and even when I was there, I know that there's this program called Program

00:59:02.510 - 00:59:16.450

for All-Inclusive Care for the Elderly, and it is called PACE program, P-A-C-E, it's a short—a program for all-inclusive care. And that model is supposed to be proven successful

00:59:18.490 - 00:59:33.030

because it happened in the Chinatown in San Francisco, I don't know, 30 years ago, they started this program, and it's a little, you know, the reason it's called "Program for All-Inclusive Care for the Elderly," is it has

00:59:33.420 - 00:59:48.270

a—between a—partner between state and federal. First of all, you need to get the government to be involved, because they have the purse string. And, you know, inclusive care means, like, including living, the–the meals, the–the

00:59:49.610 - 01:00:05.870

medical, the social component, so it's all different components together to make this program successful. And PACE Program, well, they already have a successful program in California that we all can

01:00:05.870 - 01:00:20.750

learn and copy, but PACE program, you need to run it like a business. Run it like a very efficient business—it's not a business—to make it balance, not to,

01:00:20.870 - 01:00:36.440

like, make some—I mean, hopefully you can have like 1 or 2% profit, then you can give the employee, the staff, raise, or you know, buy equipment, or anything, all this– all this aspect of it. But, you know, it is very expensive, you go back to—you know, it's very

01:00:36.440 - 01:00:52.890

expensive. Because like most, you know, most nursing home cost about six—$5000 to $6,000 a month. That's pretty standard. And not to, you know, mention, like any—not to mention other costs that come with it.

01:00:52.890 - 01:01:07.220

You know, they provide room and board and stuff like that. But anything else, you know, is extra, so there's a lot of money, there's a lot, a lot of money. So for programs, for all-inclusive care for the elderly, is you

01:01:07.220 - 01:01:25.240

have to have different component, you have to have different partnership, you have to get all the ducks in a row together, then you can become successful. And that may be the next things, after they build it, to see how it—they want to get into the program, to have this kind of program.

01:01:25.880 - 01:01:42.170

And again, it goes back to how we've—why we first started HOPE Clinic, is the need! It's the need of it. You know, like I told you, you know, 2030, one out of four is 65 and older. And–and–and I don't think

01:01:42.580 - 01:01:57.800

the saving of most America is—I mean you can find out, you can just Google it. It's like not that much money. It's not at all. And then you're—you—and–and hopefully, it's like, you know, you

01:01:58.840 - 01:02:10.480

can—people can maintain and be healthy, so that they don't run up all these high medical costs. I mean, this COVID thing. I don't know who is paying for the COVID.

01:02:10.480 - 01:02:23.570

I guess you and me, if you are working, you pay tax, and you're paying it. It's all taxpayer's money. People don't realize it. Many time, it kind of get on my nerves when people say, "Oh, it's free." I say, "No, it's not free.

01:02:24.180 - 01:02:35.260

Somebody is paying for it. And basically, it's us. All of us. All of us paying for it." You know, it depends on the amount, and, you know,

01:02:35.690 - 01:02:48.730

everybody's paying for it. So we'll see how that goes. Yeah, and in terms of like working together, does HOPE Clinic collaborate with like hospitals in the area?

01:02:49.380 - 01:03:07.540

Yes, I know they have some—I think Methodist already gave us some–some in-kind things, like not exactly the dollar, but they would in-kind us on some of our lab tests, that they–they do it in-kind for us.

01:03:08.090 - 01:03:22.460

I know that we partner with HCA West Houston for the–for the delivery program, for their—like, deliver the baby, you know, those baby program, I think they partner with HCA West Houston. Is that–is that

01:03:22.460 - 01:03:35.750

HCA? I think so. West Houston? And like some other, maybe they partner with, I don't know, St. Luke or some other thing, you know, the St. Luke Episcopal is a big foundation, that they know about HOPE

01:03:35.750 - 01:03:49.690

Clinic, you know, they partner some program that–they-they offer at different things. So this—so that's how–how it is. If you take a look at—let me see if I have HOPE Clinic's annual report.

01:03:50.660 - 01:04:03.790

Yeah. That, you know, how the–how the funding come, and of course from the government, from Medicare and Medicaid that, you know, we have a real good reimbursement rate because we have to

01:04:03.790 - 01:04:19.510

exceed that, you know, federal program that do that. Yeah. And also, like looking into the future, how do you hope that HOPE Clinic can expand? Well, I already mentioned to you that they—that expand to elderly

01:04:19.580 - 01:04:37.970

care. That's–that's a big population. Because, again, go back to the need, you know, with this population growing so much. And– and, you know, like, you know, I know they are begging the program for

01:04:38.990 - 01:04:51.820

pediatric, because pediatric and maternity, you know, that maternity, if you kept the baby, then–then the baby usually come back to the clinic, and all these things that is part of–part of–part of it.

01:04:51.820 - 01:05:08.130

But I think the big thing is the elder care. The elder care, they really, you know, need some kind—and there's some program that—it just, for example, need to start training more home health

01:05:08.250 - 01:05:23.530

aid, or home health assistance, you know, it can be both medical and non-medical to meet the need. There–there has to be some program and hopefully we'll–we'll see, you know, what is going to happen.

01:05:24.690 - 01:05:37.440

Yeah. Yeah, and moving on to some questions about like, personal identity. How would you identify yourself? And this could be in terms of like, ethnicity, religion, core beliefs.

01:05:38.240 - 01:05:51.410

Oh, that's—I mean, I'm Chinese, a Chinese American, and I'm a Christian. Yeah. I go to the church over there on–on Beltway, on I-10, you know, the Chinese

01:05:51.460 - 01:06:05.780

Baptist Church. So, yeah, that's that. And how would you describe some of like, your current hobbies and interests outside of your career? Oh, I love to shop.

01:06:08.420 - 01:06:18.050

No, well, actually, I love to read. I-I've been reading, you know, I read all kind of—I read bibliography, I read the best seller. Have you read "Educated" one?

01:06:18.180 - 01:06:33.740

The one, the book called "Educated?" You have–you have to read it. It's just—the name of it is called "Educated." It's a very nice—it's a very, very good book. I–I—yeah, I

01:06:33.820 - 01:06:49.760

always—yeah, it is—anyway, I'm not gonna give it away. I love to read, you know, and I love movies. I–I already—like I said, I said, always see all the nom—all the Academy nominated movies, you know, and I

01:06:49.760 - 01:07:03.100

love—again, I love thrillers. And–and, yeah. Movies, and oh, I–I go to the Y. I go to the YMCA, you

01:07:03.100 - 01:07:15.510

know, I would say at least four or five days out of a week, trying to keep myself healthy. And I told my kids, I said, "I'm keeping myself healthy. I'm doing it for you, not just for me, so that you don't have to

01:07:15.510 - 01:07:32.910

take care of me." I love to travels. I already—actually, I–I love to travel, I've already been to a lot of places. I already plan to—we already planned to go two out-of-the-country trip next year.

01:07:33.830 - 01:07:50.380

And yeah, I've been to a lot of places, actually, in–in Europe, in, say, Australia, of course, you know, China, and yeah,

01:07:51.220 - 01:08:08.970

Russia, I've been to a lot of places and I realized that, you know, many places were developed— everybody is unique, is, you know, that the culture and everything, and people are very proud of their own

01:08:08.970 - 01:08:20.990

country. And you have to respect that. You have to respect it, and you have to understand. Before COVID, I just came back, you know, we just came back in November, right before, in 2019.

01:08:21.430 - 01:08:33.010

So at that time, there's probably already COVID in Wuhan. We did not go to Wuhan, but we went to Shanghai, we went to the–the Yangtze River cruise too.

01:08:33.950 - 01:08:52.670

So—and, you know, see how since I was born in China, and now I see, you know, the country has changed for better, for example, the standard of living is better. I mean they have a lot of other problems, no more no less than what we have

01:08:52.810 - 01:09:08.140

in the US, but in a different sense. And when I went to Egypt, you know, it has such rich, rich culture. So, like, yeah, so I guess

01:09:08.200 - 01:09:23.880

between—oh, and then of course I love to eat, and I enjoy cooking. One thing, one area that I really don't cook, I already said that I would rather pay and buy, is bakery. I don't—I'm not—I don't have the patience

01:09:23.880 - 01:09:35.930

to measure, you know, a teaspoon here, a dabble here, so I would just go and buy dessert. I don't want to, you know, bake apple pie or pecan pie or anything.

01:09:36.800 - 01:09:49.620

I would rather go to a bakery that I like and do that. But basically I, like, love to cook. I cook quite a bit, and yes, to me that's Asian tradition that you have to

01:09:49.840 - 01:09:59.310

always enjoy the food. Yeah, I definitely also love food. But I cannot cook. Oh, you will—it will come, it will come.

01:09:59.530 - 01:10:13.000

You know, nobody just decides to—well, that has to do a little bit with my training, since being a dietician, we have to cook. And some of them—but I found I'm just not good at baking. I just don't want to bake this, you know, measure half a spoon here,

01:10:13.000 - 01:10:29.720

half a spoon there, no. I just go and order from my bakery that I patron. I mean, right now in Bellaire, there are so many, you know, nice bakery or–or any other, you know, Whole Foods or other individual,

01:10:30.100 - 01:10:46.450

you know, bakery that–that I love to patronize, than–than try to do it myself. Yeah, have you been to Common Bond Bakery? Yes. Common Bond, you know, Common Bond, I think it's a little bit overpriced if you

01:10:46.450 - 01:11:03.670

ask me. So, I'm—you know, I kind of like, yeah, I went there a couple times. Because on bakery now, cake I can see. I don't might paying for cake, you know, because you really has to have‚

01:11:04.620 - 01:11:18.540

be very good, you know, you need some training to be good pastry chef, to do that. Another thing, Common Bond, most of their stuff is, I mean, you follow it, they do it, but it's not much technique in making

01:11:18.540 - 01:11:32.290

that bun, I'm sorry, Emily. So I love—I think Central Market, Central Market is pretty good. But Whole Foods I think has, you know, pretty decent price for bakery, and I like their ingredient because their

01:11:32.290 - 01:11:42.990

ingredient is, you know, very natural, many of them. And what else? Yeah, because, you know, Whole Foods is close to me, it's right

01:11:43.110 - 01:11:58.620

there, and HEB have some nice one. Yeah, yeah, HEB have some nice, you know, bakery and things like that. Yeah. So—and of course, you go to Chinese grocery—what is that place that I think is really

01:11:58.620 - 01:12:09.180

overpriced for the cream puff? But I don't go there very much. $5 for cream puff or for—they're what, Peter? Peter Beard or some–some cream—some–some

01:12:11.250 - 01:12:21.870

cream puff bakery on Bellaire. You know, they say they have one in Sugar Land, but I know there's this one on Bellaire. I forgot what it is.

01:12:22.940 - 01:12:37.510

I mean, it's nice, it's big, but like to say I—I mean I enjoy, but I'm probably not going to go there very often because they're high in calories. Yeah, yeah. So...

01:12:40.660 - 01:12:54.540

Yeah, I think $5 For a cream puff is a little much. I think so. I think it's $4 or $5 for a cream puff. And they do have a nice variety, okay, they have taro—I don't think they have tiramisu, but they have, like, you know, pistachio, they

01:12:54.540 - 01:13:04.350

have, I don't know, just vanilla, they have one. And then we get really nice, but it's just what I'm saying. After all, it's too

01:13:04.390 - 01:13:23.310

much. Yeah. So, also if your daughter were to—or like if your kids were to watch this interview video in the future, what's like a message that you'd want them to know? I think my kids, they kind of,

01:13:23.410 - 01:13:34.390

you know, they are–they are independent. I have to say that they, you know, one live in East Coast and one live in West Coast. And my daughter would just marry in

01:13:35.140 - 01:13:49.720

September because of COVID. It was postponed a year, and she just moved to to Seattle this June, and they're independent.

01:13:50.110 - 01:14:03.740

Actually, Sabrina, she is conscientious about–about communities. Probably that has to do with her work. She used to work for Methodist.

01:14:04.190 - 01:14:15.570

And she was working for the foundation over there. And then she worked for community health. So—and she also know more about my work with HOPE Clinic. She did warranty there.

01:14:16.170 - 01:14:31.130

And now she is at a hospital. Probably—I don't really know what is her title. But anyway, she–she did fine. Now everybody's working virtual.

01:14:31.610 - 01:14:41.820

So she's, you know, she's just not like in a—she's not nurse or something. She have a master's in healthcare administration. So that's–that's her area.

01:14:42.290 - 01:14:53.790

And my son, I don't know what his work. I don't know, he work for some advertising company in Boston. So they're fine. And they–they know,

01:14:56.460 - 01:15:12.680

they know, like, you know, I think the value they have is, you know, they–they brought up to be independent. They–they are conscious about, you know, social issues. Because sometimes we talked about, you know, what's going on, and this and that.

01:15:13.380 - 01:15:29.720

And I think that's important. Because in order to make any big changes, you have to have legislature be on your side to pass–pass any law. We, of course, we all know about the hate crime to us Asians several months

01:15:29.720 - 01:15:43.000

ago. I don't know whether it's getting—I hope it's getting better. And, you know, I think it's also important for the Asian communities to partner with other group, so that we can have

01:15:43.000 - 01:16:00.990

a stronger voice, in order to do that–that, in that regard. My kids, well, they know I do care about the communities. I–I donate to certain, you know, organization

01:16:02.750 - 01:16:19.880

that I think will benefit in general speaking, you know. I mean, I support PBS, because I think they're a real good program. I support the Houston Food Bank, of course, HOPE

01:16:20.130 - 01:16:35.080

Clinic, I support CCC. I was helping CCC—well, last year I was helping CCC to get their senior center ready for their food service.

01:16:35.380 - 01:16:49.770

Because as a registered dietician, you know, there's all these guidelines, I can—I help them with, you know, so I help them—in that respect, I help them find the cook, find the chef, and I also help them find

01:16:49.770 - 01:17:04.730

my replacement, you know, because there's—in order to do that, that's part of compliance to do that. So I was there a couple weeks ago, and have–have lunch

01:17:05.530 - 01:17:22.990

over there. And they are talking to their CEO, that they probably—they're looking into maybe–maybe four or five months down the road, they can ramp up the capacities of the care, and I think that is good.

01:17:24.690 - 01:17:40.140

And, you know, I did have them get their program developed to—on the food service part, the–the readiness for it, you know, and all the compliance they have to do. So then that will help, you know, the—some

01:17:41.150 - 01:17:57.600

elderly people in our community. Yeah, for sure. And so this would be my last question for this interview, but if you could go back in time and give a piece of advice to your younger self, what would you say?

01:18:00.100 - 01:18:20.270

I would say, you know, take–take chance and take risks. Because especially in this day and time, you know, you–you—because sometimes, like—and also, be very—I-I'm kind of an optimistic, so I say you–

01:18:20.440 - 01:18:36.360

you always, you know, sometime maybe you think, you know, "This is terrible, how can it happen to me?" But it always brings me back to the Chinese idiom that, you know, about the older gentleman that

01:18:36.500 - 01:18:46.960

lost the horses, which is a terrible things. You heard about this Chinese idiom? About, you know, well, I-I can say it in Cantonese: 蔡翁失馬，焉知非福.

01:18:48.000 - 01:19:03.600

This is a kind of translation about, like, for example, Mr. Tsai lost the horses, which—lost a horse, which is a terrible things. Okay? No, no, no, Mister— somehow, this terrible things, but in—end up–end up to be okay, and then, like,

01:19:03.800 - 01:19:16.870

this idiom mentioned that, okay, his–his son, okay, his son got—ride horse and got broken, if I remember correctly, the storyline. Then it's a terrible things, because he's broken his leg, but then it's

01:19:16.870 - 01:19:30.190

because he broke his leg he don't have to get drafted into the army, and then, like, you say, "Okay, he had lost his horses," but end up something, so don't look at things, like, right away and be–be–be

01:19:31.290 - 01:19:45.120

sad or be disappointed, because like, you know–you know—and also like, you know, one door close or one window close, another windows will open. And especially young people, the young people then take some

01:19:45.120 - 01:19:58.430

chance, you know, because sometime you–you never know what is going to happen. And another thing is, you know, work very hard. That is no–no—but oh, you work very hard, I mean, I was–I

01:19:58.980 - 01:20:11.110

was looking back at my career. I mean, I was working couple of jobs for I don't know how many years, you know, and–and that, that was—that's fine.

01:20:11.260 - 01:20:25.050

That was fine. And, you know, also don't always, you know, value everything with a dollar sign, you know, because there's so many things that, you know, if you look at it, it's priceless.

01:20:25.750 - 01:20:38.090

So don't try to take every—measure everything with a dollar sign, you know, look deep into yourself and say, "Well, what can I do? Or what difference I can make?" You know,

01:20:39.290 - 01:20:58.400

for the community, you know, for humanity if you are, you know, be bold, do that. Thank you so much for sharing these pieces of advice with us. Yeah, anyways, so, you know, and–and sometimes I joke about,

01:20:58.400 - 01:21:08.250

like, when I—if they say, "Oh, no, you can travel," I say, "Yeah, but don't forget I pay my due. I literally pay my dues." So, you know, that's the benefit of it.

01:21:08.830 - 01:21:20.780

Yeah. Well, what is your major, Emily? I am an English major. Okay, you're going to be, you know, writing, like a writer? As a matter of fact, my nephew, one of

01:21:20.780 - 01:21:31.710

my nephew is a writer. He's teaching creative writing at Boston U. Oh, I'm actually from Boston! Oh, really? And he–he graduated from Rice.

01:21:31.710 - 01:21:41.240

He graduated from Rice, and–and then he—no, no Boston U—no, New York. No, where is that university in New York? What is it? NYU?

01:21:41.560 - 01:21:51.000

Yeah, he teaches at NYU. And–and then, like, he, what is it? Oh, I had to think about it. Oh, he went to Northwestern.

01:21:51.500 - 01:22:05.430

And he—I think he did double major. He did psychologist and–and then he got–he got he got in psychology, I think, in Em- in Northwestern

01:22:06.480 - 01:22:20.800

and then he got his creative writing, where? Somewhere in Tennessee. Where is it? I cannot, yeah, you know, remember where he got his—yeah, he

01:22:20.800 - 01:22:31.960

was in—oh, was he in Washington? Washington State University? Or was he in—cannot remember where he graduated for his creative—for his creative

01:22:34.380 - 01:22:46.940

degree, for his doctorate degree in creative writing. But anyway, that's what he is making a living right now. And he had to—he did wrote a book as part of his dissertation.

01:22:46.940 - 01:22:56.930

They all have to write a book, don't they? To become—to get their doctorate. But anyway, yeah. Yeah, I'll be seeing him tomorrow.

01:22:57.160 - 01:23:11.300

I mean, yeah, tomorrow, Saturday—Friday. Yeah, I'll be seeing all of them in New York. Yeah. I hope you have a lot of fun. Yeah, I will. And you know, good luck, and I really appreciate your help with

01:23:11.330 - 01:23:23.180

this project. I think it is–it is very good. And thanks to the Chao family, their generosities and their dedications about Asians—

01:23:23.260 - 01:23:38.840

or Chinese, you know, in–in Texas, in Houston. Okay. Well, if you have any further questions, I'm just an email away. So just, you know, email me and who knows, I'll probably

01:23:38.840 - 01:23:48.490

run into you in any of these organizations. That's very true. Thank you so much for sharing your experiences with me today. All right, you know, take care.

01:23:48.490 - 01:23:52.310

Have a great rest of your weekend, have a good trip. You too, bye bye.