00:00:00.460 - 00:00:15.100

So today is June 5 2020. And here we are welcoming back our past Houston Asian American interviewee, Julie Tam. And thank you so much, Julie, for joining us again for the oral history

00:00:15.100 - 00:00:26.030

collection on COVID. Absolutely. Thank you. And to start, can you share with us, how your business has changed or been impacted

00:00:26.030 - 00:00:39.800

during the COVID pandemic? Sure, well, like so many others, we decided to close our office off to the public, so that we're not increasing the number of people, or allowing the same number of people to come in, and then possibly

00:00:39.800 - 00:00:51.410

spread infection, you know, either way. And so we've also staggered our shifts. We're a small business, so we already don't have a lot of people working in the office. We have several folks normally, but we've

00:00:51.410 - 00:01:05.360

actually divided them up, so that there's at most one to three people working at any given time. And they're working shorter hours in the office; and the rest of their hours, they're working from home. And so there's also a three-hour gap between the end of one shift and the beginning of

00:01:05.360 - 00:01:17.930

another shift to allow for the air to clear because we've also read, you know, some studies that have shown that the aerosols from people's saliva and mucus do stay in the air for a few hours. And so we want to make sure everyone is

00:01:18.020 - 00:01:30.710

safe. We're requiring mask wearing and sanitizing of hands upon entering, and we frequently sanitize high touch surface areas. Um, and also we've noticed obviously, a decrease in business, especially during the

00:01:30.740 - 00:01:43.590

beginning of the pandemic, the first couple of weeks, you know. Once the "Stay Home" order was announced for Houston in Harris County, it was almost like everybody kind of froze and thought, you know, ‘what do I do now? let me just pause what I'm doing.’ And so we, being a real

00:01:43.590 - 00:01:56.370

estate brokerage and property management company, you know, we do sales and leasing. And so the folks that need to move obviously, who already put in their move-out notices; or were going to move into our properties that we manage,

00:01:56.700 - 00:02:07.830

in terms of the rentals, you know, still follow through with those transactions. But we didn't have a whole lot of new people trying to do that. Buyers suddenly decided to stop trying to have us help them look for homes.

00:02:08.520 - 00:02:18.930

You know, sellers, we still had some listings, particularly listings of vacant homes where it wouldn't be an issue with people coming in, because there wasn't someone living there who could possibly infect the person coming in or vice versa.

00:02:20.190 - 00:02:30.960

But after the first couple of weeks, fortunately for our company, we actually saw activity really rebound back to roughly what they have been all along. And in fact, they are

00:02:30.960 - 00:02:44.230

at really good levels now. Um, you know, we've had recessions and slowdowns in certain months of the year or weeks, you know, here and there maybe slower typically, even before the pandemic. But right now things are actually doing very well in terms of our leasing and sales

00:02:44.230 - 00:02:56.290

activity. What's still a little bit slow, in particular is buyers, you know, us representing buyers going out to look for new homes, just because people are still scared. You know a lot of them. Yeah, for sure.

00:02:57.180 - 00:03:10.470

So how much of your daily activities can be moved online now in terms of your daily, like leasing or showing clients of the properties. Like how much of those can be virtual and how much

00:03:10.470 - 00:03:22.450

still needs to be physical? Right. So what we're doing more of is so typically we have photos taken of a property when we're listing it for sale or for lease. And usually we showcase you know, the best photos, we're not going to

00:03:22.450 - 00:03:35.310

necessarily show the inside of the garage or, you know, too many different angles of a room, or close ups of too many things, you know, unless it's something we really want to showcase as being beautiful. But now because fewer people are going out in person, especially during the

00:03:35.310 - 00:03:50.610

beginning of the pandemic, we shot more photos, even if we didn't post all of them online, we at least have them so that way if people want to see more photos, they can ask us and we can send it to them. And also we've been shooting video tours as well, just so that folks who don't want to go

00:03:50.610 - 00:04:04.660

out in person can just watch the video. Some people will go ahead and move forward with a property seeing only the video. And for other people who still want to go out and see it in person, video is a great way for them to eliminate properties they don't want or decide to go ahead and see the

00:04:04.660 - 00:04:16.450

property in person after seeing the video, and just getting more perspective of that property. And for most of the things because we operate in the cloud, we have a cloud-based property management software, we do a lot of email and

00:04:16.450 - 00:04:29.400

text and things by phone as well. So it's been okay not having to meet with people in person, we have a drop slot at our office where people can drop off things and we can slide things out to them if there's things that need to be picked up and dropped off in person.

00:04:29.960 - 00:04:42.690

But in terms of actually showing the properties, you know, the first couple weeks or so, some of us decided in terms of among our realtors, in our– in our company, not to show in person just because we were afraid, you know, at first, we didn't

00:04:42.690 - 00:04:54.610

have a whole lot of data to tell us. You know how exactly this virus was transmitted and how contagious it is. And so we just stopped altogether until we could learn more. And as we were learning more and then the safety

00:04:55.000 - 00:05:09.200

protocol, protocols were being put in place by our health officials and our government officials and made us more comfortable to be able to just go back out but do it safely. So we all are required to wear masks and stay at least six feet away from the other person we're showing the property to.

00:05:09.200 - 00:05:21.660

And of course we sanitize our hands after we leave the property before we touch anything that we're going to take into our vehicles and take home with us. Yeah, for sure. That sounds a great protocol you're taking over there.

00:05:22.220 - 00:05:33.820

I'm just wondering, what's your outlook on the Houston's property market or the economy in general in the coming years? Sure. So of course, no one can really predict the future.

00:05:33.820 - 00:05:48.520

But what our main economist that forecasts for our Real Estate Association nationally is saying is that he does see a rebound. In fact, we're already seeing prices in some markets, you know, going back up. In Houston, we have not seen any sort of

00:05:48.520 - 00:05:59.040

significant movement on price, you know, in any direction overall. I know that I have investor clients who have asked me, "Hey, keep an eye out for properties. If there's great price reductions, you know, I'm

00:05:59.240 - 00:06:14.120

looking to jump in." And they were expecting large percentages, you know, 25, even 50% reductions, I pretty much knew that 50% seemed, you know, pretty far-fetched; unless, you know, we were without a vaccine for years and years, and we just had terrible outbreaks of this, you

00:06:14.120 - 00:06:26.230

know, virus, and perhaps another virus, you know. But really what we're probably going to see is some people, if they cannot get the forbearance for their mortgages, they may get foreclosed on, we may see some

00:06:26.230 - 00:06:35.890

short sales. But I don't see it as being something huge in terms of an uptick of, you know, those types of distress sales, or any sort of huge reduction in prices.

00:06:36.290 - 00:06:46.160

So really, we are seeing things moving, especially now that more things are opening up. But of course, you know, we're also seeing that, you know, some of these infections down there, they're really not going away.

00:06:46.160 - 00:06:57.490

And, you know, we're seeing more ICU beds being occupied in the Houston area. So that's really concerning to me and a lot of folks. And so, you know, we may see another shutdown, and so we'll have to see where it goes from there.

00:06:59.280 - 00:07:12.920

Yeah, thank you for the insight. And also just wondering, what do you see this pandemic has revealed to us about the social inequalities? As we're seeing it– it's the poor or the people who have

00:07:12.920 - 00:07:27.280

existing, like financial issues that got trouble, yeah, hit more than this pandemic. Right. So, you know, the sage advice is to always have at least six months of savings to where you don't have a job, maybe your spouse doesn't even have a job; because in some

00:07:27.350 - 00:07:37.030

cases, that's what's happening to families right now. They're either being furloughed or hours being reduced, or they're being laid off altogether, or the companies are just shut down. They can't even open up, you know, so the

00:07:37.030 - 00:07:50.020

owners aren't even suffering. And so that advice obviously extends true for cases like this, because this is the type of unexpected thing that can happen. And so we all need to practice those smart financial savings

00:07:50.300 - 00:08:02.270

and investing. So for folks who did not do that, they are being hurt. We're seeing it with our property management. So fortunately, you know, we screen very strictly for our renters. And so we actually are

00:08:02.370 - 00:08:16.550

much better than the national or even the local average in terms of the number of people who are able to pay their rent, and in terms of the number of people who are behind on their rent. And so we have a very small percentage of people who are more than one month behind on their rent, who are

00:08:16.550 - 00:08:31.950

actually not attempting to make any payments at all. Most of our tenants, the vast majority are paying their rent just fine, like usual. They had their savings or perhaps they did not lose their jobs. And actually, the interesting thing is among our renters, folks, we have folks kind of

00:08:32.150 - 00:08:43.240

throughout the spectrum, folks that are paying several hundred a month, up to a few thousand a month for our higher end properties. And we actually are seeing some folks that are getting behind in kind of all price ranges.

00:08:43.240 - 00:08:58.020

So it's not just the lower end, people who are getting behind even some folks that are paying more than $2,000 a month are behind on their rent. And so a lot of it is just a matter of how much savings do they have already so that they can cushion themselves in a time like this.

00:08:58.390 - 00:09:10.310

The other thing too, is you know, As most of us have seen, those essential workers, primarily are ones who have to be on the job physically, you know, they're delivering things or working in groce- grocery stores or restaurants.

00:09:10.650 - 00:09:23.530

And so they're going to be at a higher risk of infection because they have to be out there, among other people. And so for those folks, if there are lower, you know, income earning folks, then there's where there could be an inequality where they're getting infected at

00:09:23.530 - 00:09:34.140

a higher rate, you know, bus drivers, for example, it's really hard to stay away from people. And you can't really control if somebody is approaching you, even though you want to stay away from them. And so for folks that have

00:09:34.190 - 00:09:46.400

tech jobs, or ones that are more online, virtual, you know, that type of technology based job, they can do more stuff, working from home. And so, you know, I'm fortunate that I can work from home, of course, I

00:09:46.400 - 00:10:01.240

still need to go out to properties that sometimes they're vacant, which is great, but then sometimes I need to meet with someone, and so I have to do it safely. Yeah, for sure. And we understand you always— you also was a reporter. And we're seeing that

00:10:01.240 - 00:10:14.520

reporter has been the kind of main force that we've been communicating with the re- rest of the world in this isolation period. So what's your future outlook on the way that we can

00:10:15.300 - 00:10:25.760

be impacted by the media in general? Right. So, you know, obviously, the media reports, it tries to, for the most part, be, you know, well

00:10:25.760 - 00:10:36.540

rounded and balanced in its coverage. But there are some stations that are of course, biased, either to the left or the right. And the perspectives that are being reported are based on human beings, right. So it's not

00:10:36.540 - 00:10:48.040

like robots are deciding what stories to cover every day. It's people who are working in the newsroom. And so there are biases inherent in that. And even though as journalists, and I definitely try my hardest to

00:10:48.040 - 00:11:03.540

not bring my biases into a story; but naturally, even if you try to put those biases aside, we still come up with story ideas and report on things and choose to talk to certain types of people based on our upbringing, our background, our experience, and you know how we think a story

00:11:03.540 - 00:11:15.460

should be told. And so unfortunately, you know, I do see that now on the other side where I'm part of the audience watching the news coverage that I was a part of, you know, as a reporter and anchor for more than 10 years, I see some

00:11:15.460 - 00:11:25.270

of that bias coming through; and you can see some of the opinions, you know, being interjected in the coverage. And you know, and folks talking about things like that. So, it is unfortunate.

00:11:25.270 - 00:11:38.750

There are definitely people on all sides of the the issue, you know, in all political parties, of all colors, who are following and also not following the rules in terms of what the CDC and other health officials have told us in

00:11:38.750 - 00:11:49.870

terms of what we should be doing in the pandemic. So, while some of the coverage may be skewed towards saying, you know, that conservatives are the ones who are protesting and not wanting to wear masks, well, we're seeing plenty of liberals doing the same thing.

00:11:49.870 - 00:12:02.300

So people are guilty on both sides, and the people are also doing the right thing on both sides. And I think, you know, it shouldn't be a political issue. This is a life and death, you know, health and safety issue for human beings, for our

00:12:02.300 - 00:12:12.350

fellow human beings and for yourself, really. So we should all act. Frankly, if you act selfishly, just wear a mask be safe, you know, protect yourself and you'll be protecting others, and then we'll all be better off in

00:12:12.350 - 00:12:28.540

the end. Yeah, sure. And also, just to touch on what we previously experienced on the news, that a few cases of the hate crimes towards Asian Americans and also

00:12:29.510 - 00:12:44.630

probably leading up to now— which wasn't directly impacted by the pandemic— but I guess, mentally people are locked down and locked in their homes, in certain ways. What's your perspectives on how the

00:12:45.630 - 00:13:02.020

pandemic– pandemic has some— in a way divided us in, amidst all these very dramatic events? Right. So you know, it's interesting because during the first several weeks of the pandemic, we saw a

00:13:02.020 - 00:13:17.750

lot of hate crimes both verbally and physically against Asian Americans. Anybody who looked like they could be Chinese, where the virus apparently came from, was targeted, and it's very sad. We saw, you know, elderly people being physically violently attacked, who are

00:13:17.750 - 00:13:28.390

completely helpless. Their businesses being defaced by, you know, graffiti, messages of hate, you know, against the Chinese. And so it has really been very sad.

00:13:29.070 - 00:13:41.870

You know, Chinese people don't tend to be very vocal or loud about these things. You know, just culturally, me being Chinese. I know this, you know, you're told to, don't make waves, you know, keep quiet, just keep to yourself and don't say anything.

00:13:41.870 - 00:13:55.040

So you did not see protests for Chinese people who were injured or killed due to, you know, people being angry about this pandemic. But now you're seeing a lot of protests and riots and a lot of damage to

00:13:55.040 - 00:14:08.910

communities and businesses, and even murders of people following the murder of George Floyd, which was a terrible incident, and inexcusable. But there's a lot of backlash after that, that's causing a

00:14:09.090 - 00:14:22.360

lot of damage and even more deaths, which really needs to stop, you know, we need to, we need to have change, obviously, that, you know, protects African Americans. And there shouldn't be racial bias against them in the way that we've seen.

00:14:22.740 - 00:14:34.340

But at the same time, Asians need to speak up too. That's something that I really pushed for as a TV journalist, when I was asked to go and speak to groups and when the topic was relevant, as I said, "Look,

00:14:34.500 - 00:14:45.850

you know, it's great if you are model citizen, you know, that stereotype of the model minority; and, you know, you go to your profession, you're a doctor or an engineer or whatnot. But if that's all you do, and

00:14:45.850 - 00:14:58.710

you don't speak up for our group, then we're not going to get our voices heard." And then we'll continue to be victimized in silence. And so we all need to speak up. Yeah, I totally agree with that.

00:14:59.220 - 00:15:15.350

And moving on to like your personal life during quarantine, like what have you been seeing yourself doing more, thinking more during the lockdown period? So yeah, we have a one-year-old son. And so he actually was supposed to start school right at the

00:15:15.350 - 00:15:23.840

beginning of the pandemic. But then we kept him back. And then actually one week later the school shut down on its own, just like so many schools around our nation.

00:15:24.320 - 00:15:36.740

And so the sad thing is that not only has he missed out on those learning opportunities, and being able to interact with other kids, which we really wanted him to have that extra socialization; then he also has been missing out on some of his other

00:15:36.860 - 00:15:46.610

activities that we've been taking him to, you know, he's always been very active. So six days a week, we would take him to something whether it be like play music classes or swim class, and whatnot, ever since he was just two months old.

00:15:47.280 - 00:15:57.570

And so, you know, he's missed out on that and I've been missing it myself personally, because I enjoyed that. But on the flip side, I really have enjoyed the extra time I've gotten to spend with him at home. You

00:15:57.570 - 00:16:06.520

know, I'm still working full time but my husband and I stagger shifts. And then my mom also helps us babysit, and she works with our— well all three of us work in the same company. So we just try to tag

00:16:06.520 - 00:16:16.160

team and make it all work, you know, and, and he's home with us. And it's really nice to be able to see him grow and, and, and just all the things that he's doing. And fortunately, he's very, extremely advanced

00:16:16.510 - 00:16:27.530

for his age. You know, most kids at 17 months are speaking about 10 to 20 words, and he speaks over 200 in any of three different languages. And some words he speaks in two or three other of the languages.

00:16:27.920 - 00:16:37.700

So we're not really concerned in terms of his development. But one thing that we are, you know, sad about, of course, he doesn't have that peer interaction with other kids right now, because we're trying to keep them safe.

00:16:38.290 - 00:16:54.230

So I've gotten to cook more, clean more, unfortunately, that's not enjoyable. I enjoy the cooking. And yeah, we just have been doing some projects at home too. And, you know, our house is getting power washed, you know, as we speak outside and so things that we can get done safely.

00:16:54.950 - 00:17:07.060

When we bring contractors you know, to our house that they know they're doing things outside for example. Great. And yeah, that's so cute on your one-year-old, speaking three languages! And yeah,

00:17:07.060 - 00:17:22.820

wondering, have you and your family engaged in much of the community, like, volunteering during this period? We haven't physically gone out to volunteer just because we're just trying to stay safe and just let you

00:17:22.820 - 00:17:31.630

know, the organizations that are doing their thing. And of course, some of them are, you know, have reduced their activities. But otherwise, you know, folks that are already doing things, whether they'd be

00:17:31.630 - 00:17:43.260

giving out food or whatnot, letting them do their thing, as usual. And we're just trying to stay safe and we're definitely following all the guidelines strictly, you know, to the T. So, that way we're doing our part,

00:17:43.260 - 00:17:59.730

you know, to keep everybody safe. Yeah, for sure. Um, and before we close, can you also share some outlooks or your future perspectives on how we come out of this pandemic, like what will be the

00:17:59.810 - 00:18:13.530

biggest change that we will experience? Sure, well, I certainly can see already that, you know, companies are telling their employees that they can work from home either completely or at least increased hours from home.

00:18:13.560 - 00:18:25.100

So I think that will continue to some extent, because they'll find that, you know, this is actually doable; and maybe some companies can then, you know, get rid of some of their office space and save some money that way. It

00:18:25.100 - 00:18:37.910

also helps with commute, people don't have to spend time, you know, driving to and from the office, and that sort of thing. There, of course, is still really good collaboration to be had when you're in a group of— in a room with a group of people in person, you know, with the whiteboard or

00:18:37.910 - 00:18:48.640

whatnot, rather than just doing a zoom meeting or things over the phone. So that, you know, does get lost virtually, that type of experience. So I think some companies may still opt to have some things you know, done

00:18:48.640 - 00:19:04.150

in person. But even before the pandemic, obviously, you know, technology like zoom and, you know, Google Meet or whatever, they already existed because companies were doing certain things virtually. And of course, you know, global companies that cannot be flying someone

00:19:04.150 - 00:19:16.110

across, you know, the ocean in one second to meet with someone would meet virtually until they could, you know, meet in person if they didn't meet in person. So I think those types of trends we’ll see continue. And I think that now that the U.S., you know,

00:19:16.250 - 00:19:32.900

has gotten somewhat used to wearing masks, something that, you know, Asian countries have already done for several years, that we'll probably see more of that. And, you know, I will say, for sure, there's going to be another pandemic of some type, you know, at some point in the future in our lifetimes, unfortunately.

00:19:33.170 - 00:19:46.190

I mean, as all the experts are saying, you know. We are a global society now, everybody flies, you know, to different countries, whether for business or pleasure, and there's a lot of goods are being shipped and all that. So, you know, it's just the virus or any

00:19:46.190 - 00:20:01.410

sort of virus or any sort of disease is going to spread much more rapidly now than it ever has before. So I mean, we used to have plagues and pandemics, they weren't pandemics; but you know, viruses like this outbreaks that were more localized or confined to one country where people would

00:20:01.410 - 00:20:11.700

drive and spread it. But now you're flying, driving and riding in cruise ships. And so, but you know, it's just gonna happen again. So we just all need to be prepared and not let our guard down for when it does

00:20:11.700 - 00:20:21.890

happen. It's not about if, it's about when. And unfortunately, the scary thing is, it may be sooner than we want, you know. It could happen again in a couple of years. And we're right back, you know, to where we are, if people

00:20:21.890 - 00:20:35.030

don't have systems in place to respond to them. I think that also, you know, for folks like, parents like us, you know, having the opportunity to slow down our pace a little bit without running our children, you know, to all these different

00:20:35.030 - 00:20:44.310

activities is something to where we can take a breather and think, "Well, are there some things that can be eliminated? Can we be more creative at home?" It's what we found ourselves doing, you know, creating our own

00:20:44.310 - 00:20:54.690

activities for our son and just spending that quality time together? And certain things you know, that we would have left up to the school to be creative and teach our son is, you know, that we're doing

00:20:54.690 - 00:21:09.280

ourselves. And so yeah, it's– it's those types of things that we're going to reevaluate. For some people, their lives won't change. You know, some folks are just saying, "I'm not gonna let this affect me at all, I'm not changing my lifestyle, I just refuse to, you know, do anything

00:21:09.280 - 00:21:24.800

different." But I think a lot of folks, you know, are going to change just because we might find that, there's some positives that come out of this. And we want to actually, you know, change and adapt. And what I really hope is that, you know, businesses right now that are doing the

00:21:24.940 - 00:21:35.840

extra sanitization, and you know, sanitizing the pens before you sign in, the menus and all these different things, and the doorknobs that they'll continue to do it. Because frankly, even before the pandemic, I hated using my

00:21:35.920 - 00:21:46.880

finger to sign on the stylus or the little pad, you know, when I would pay because it looks so gross, and I knew all the people had touched it before, even without Coronavirus, had all sorts of other germs. And so

00:21:47.370 - 00:21:57.370

it'd be great if people just you know, stayed more clean. And I wouldn't mind not shaking hands, although I know that we're probably going to return to that just because that's the way our society is set up to shake hands when we meet someone.

00:21:57.760 - 00:22:05.380

But you know, some of these practices, you know, really do spread germs and just, just aren't good. You know, it's not necessary. We can follow some other cultures

00:22:05.380 - 00:22:20.670

and do other types of greetings rather than shaking hands, you know, bowing or, I don't know, do something else just don't touch each other. So yeah. Yeah, there's definitely some habits to keep. Yeah, I guess that's all of my questions.

00:22:20.670 - 00:22:35.300

Do you have anything else to add or share with us? I mean, just in terms of like, you know, being Asian American, you know, in the middle of all this, and you know, to others is that, I mean, this virus could exist anywhere. It didn't have to originate in

00:22:35.300 - 00:22:46.730

China. It's not a Chinese virus in terms of that it's some sort of inherent trait to Chinese people that we would have this virus and then spread it to others. That sounds really silly that I would have to say that.

00:22:46.800 - 00:23:01.920

But there's so much ignorance in the world and clearly a lot more, you know, stupidity than there is intelligence to where people think that somehow it is just this horrible thing that Chinese people propagated. So I mean, very easily, some animal could have had the Coronavirus somewhere else in

00:23:01.920 - 00:23:12.220

the world anywhere and transmitted it to a human being and it could have started there. And then we would be all, you know, talking about that country. But unfortunately it was China to this time, it seems.

00:23:12.300 - 00:23:24.920

And this seems like what happened. And so, a lot of people are angry at China. And you know, certainly there were things early on in their response that seemed to have been slow and maybe not so

00:23:24.920 - 00:23:37.110

appropriate. But we don't need to vilify an entire group of people, whether the people who live in mainland China or Chinese or other East Asians around the world, for this virus. There have been all sorts of viruses and

00:23:37.110 - 00:23:50.680

other deadly diseases, you can name all sorts of things, all sorts of influenzas and Ebola and whatnot that originated from all different parts of the world. This one just happened to be a pandemic, and especially since our society is more global than it's ever been.

00:23:51.050 - 00:24:03.350

And so the Chinese people are unlucky because we fall on this side of the situation. But people really just need to, you know, use our brains, look at the facts, do the proper research, look at the statistics, have the right perspective and don't just jump to, you

00:24:03.350 - 00:24:12.450

know, racist conclusions, because that's just silly. And it's just people wanting to find a scapegoat, and because they're angry. I understand. I'm angry too. I hate this pandemic.

00:24:12.450 - 00:24:23.580

I hate that we have to go through this. I like the positive things that have come out of being able to stay at home, and you know, but just the fact that so many people have lost their lives and have horrible medical consequences, even if they

00:24:23.620 - 00:24:36.560

did not die due to this virus. I mean, sure, we can all hate the virus, but we shouldn't hate the group of people, that it just so happened to originate from. Yeah, for sure.

00:24:36.560 - 00:24:45.370

And thank you for the positive note, and very hopeful statement, I hope we will unite and not hate each other through this pandemic.