Jocelyn Nguyen oral history interview

Okay, can you tell me when and where were you born? I was born in Channelview, Texas, which is like the boonies in Texas country— kind of straight out. That's where I was born.

But I was raised in Houston. Okay and so can you tell me the household that you grew up in? It could be the relationship dynamic

with your parents, your siblings, the language you speak at home, or like the food you have. So, this is before my brother was born, my parents had me really early age like, not really early, I

guess it was like normal now. It's like, they had me at 21 and 23. So I grew up in Bellaire in Houston, which is like in Chinatown. And we used to live in like this really small apartment.

It was kind of, it was kind of like, you know, like, or like moldy. I don't really remember much. I just remember like, during

that time, my mom was taking care of me. And I kind of ate like small portions, but most of the time, it's like rice or like some sort of protein. And my mom stayed home or sometimes she worked as a hairstylist.

My dad before he had me. My mom used to like, before my dad had me he didn't. He always like would hang out with friends or like do stuff. But then whenever I was born, he I think he got

into like technical school. And so he kind of became an IT person and from there whenever I was younger, he started just like, becoming specialized in

that and started working. Um, but back then I just remember like, I just remember we didn't have much. We used to just like eat like on the coffee table on stools and it was just like the

three of us. Um, from what I remember, it was like I was a kid. So like, I was pretty happy I guess. My brother was born or my relationship with my mom.

When I was younger was, we were I mean, she was my mother. She raised me and I was pretty close to her. That changed as I grew up. And then my dad,

I've always been like a daddy's girl, even though he wasn't at home, like I've always been closer to my dad. But one of my brothers was born in 2002. We moved out of the apartments and got our first house in

Houston. But before then we used to like hop apartments a lot. And they were still kind of like the same condition like very broken down and not that great. Um, but growing up.

Let's see, I guess like to my teen years, this was like whenever we lived in the house together as our first house and I kind of started butting heads with my mom is like, the typical like Tiger mom relationship where I

wasn't allowed to do things, I wasn't allowed to express myself or anything. I just kind of like, did what she told me. So that's whenever we kind of like, started fighting a lot, and we didn't really agree on a lot

of things. And my dad, for the most part, has always just worked, because he didn't want to like stay in the house. But my brother whenever we were younger, we were not that close. I feel like our house was

kind of divided. It was like he was close to my mom. I was close to my dad. And it was just that way, like early like childhood or like teen years. It wasn't until maybe like after my parents divorced, which was

about four years ago, that my brother and I became like best friends and today we live with today we live with our dad and our step mom and our stepmom. But now my brother are like super close.

And my mom lives at the first house still by herself. So was the first house that was in Chinatown still? or did you move to the other part of town. So yes, the apartments were in Chinatown.

But the first house was in... It's in Houston. It's like near— like Dolby High School kind of like, like passed the Danish I guess. Yeah. So what do you say are some of the most

important values that your parents have instilled on you while you were growing up? Yeah, I feel like I'm, I'm really grateful. My parents, I feel like what they don't know or what

they are and what they didn't learn when they're younger was something that I had to learn on my own. Like, for instance, like what I do now is like, I used to be like, Pre med.

So it's like, like, and they wanted me to, like follow that traditional route. As I grew older, I was just like, No, I think there's like multiple ways to

do things with my life. It's not just that one set way. So I learned a lot from what they don't know. But a few things I did learn from them that I keep close to me is that my mom is

very, like a very independent person. She's always been that way. And so she has always told me that I need to know how to take care of myself before I can take care of others.

Um, and so that's like, one of the things I kind of live by. I just am a very independent like, woman. I don't rely on— I try not to rely on anyone else. I think I can always do it myself.

But I know like, I do need help, but it's nice to have like my individuality. So that's something my mom taught me a lot. My dad taught me I get my, I get my softer traits

from my dad, I think he's always about like, you know, take care of like your family or like, you know, love your loved ones and spend time with them. Um, you know, have conversations with people because you don't know what they're going through. So that's

something that my dad taught me kind of like always be kind to everyone. So those are like the two main things that they taught me. Were like instilled in me. Yeah.

And so what were some of your childhood hobbies? Do you still keep any of them to this day? Um, I feel like when I was a kid, or growing up, I've always been creative.

um, whenever I was a teenager, that's whenever I kind of stopped being creative because like, I was studying a lot or I thought I wanted to be, you know, become a doctor say, I just stopped doing artistic things, but after after high

school, and going to college, I really embrace my creativity. It's just who I am. It's always who I've been... so now I still I still like, I'm still creative. I still like to express myself in creative ways, like photography

or modeling, blogging or designing. I guess those kind of branch off from drawing and stuff when I was little or like, I used to make cards or crafts. I still do that, but not as often.

But yeah, I still keep, I still keep my hobbies. I think hobbies are really important. Um, not everything you have to do is like, it doesn't have to always be like, for a purpose.

It can just generally bring you joy. That's a– that's important. Okay, so now I guess we will talk more about your current career and college students and that, and

so, could you tell me what school you're going to and also what your majors are. So currently, I am at the University of Houston as a psychology major and technology minor. my college career has been very odd.

Because when I went to high school, I got my associates whenever I graduated high school. So I finished like my, like half of my undergrad. And then I went to UT Austin, as

I, as a biochem major, pre -med. Um, that was my first year after my first semester I was like, by chemistry, switch to nutrition. And then from there I was like, Yeah, I don't think healthcare is for me at

all. I took a gap year which was 2017, 2018. So I just recently transferred to U of H and I'm about to finish like next year. Okay. So what made you choose psychology and technology minor?

So recently, I just claimed my minor, but um, psychology I chose because I felt like what I went through when I was younger just growing up and why seeing other people, I felt like I didn't understand myself.

Like mentally. I didn't understand why my parents act a certain way that they did like my mom. I don't understand, like, I didn't understand, like, Why do people do these things? Like, don't they know?

Or like what goes on in their mind? And I guess I wanted the answers to those questions. So I kind of chose psychology to understand myself and like the people around me more.

And then Honestly, I fell in love with it. My first semester at U of H. I was like, wow, like, this makes total sense. Because this topic, I could relate it to my life.

And so that's what made it easier for me to learn and actually be interested in it. So yeah, that's kind of how I chose psychology and I chose technology recently. Because I feel like that's just a part of

where our world is kind of directing towards like you know, more like technological advances. So technology and psychology are such like a broad topic, I feel like I can incorporate, like my creative interest in it because it's so

like broad. Like, I feel like psychology can fit in every field, the same thing as technology, like we need those two in every field. So that's why I chose those topics.

I'm genuinely interested in that. So. O kay, and so you say that up to 19 years old, you had always been a pre-med, right? And you're even

trained to be an EMT during high school. And so now you're pursuing a career in like modeling and fashion. It was a real big change. And so it is, I think this is a very

common question, but what made you, I would say, nurtured career of medical school for such a long time. Is it that traditional expectation from your parents or you know...?

Yeah, so growing up I mean, all your only surroundings is, what your family and your high school, which is not or your classroom, which isn't a lot of people, and I was in high school and that was like, focus on medical field.

So it was like a technical school. Um, so I like, throughout high school, I was like volunteering at like Texas children's I thought I wanted to be a pediatrician. So all my jobs were like

towards kids. And one of the programs at the high school was to become an EMT, which I did my senior year. I guess like, I didn't know. I mean, it kind of sounds bad.

Looking back. I was kind of oblivious to like, the unlimited possibilities of the world. I just, I just I guess I'm my parents and my culture and what people told me what success was, which was like, oh, to have like this

high status career to have something stable, to make a lot of money that is success, like, or like the whole idea equation was like graduate, go to awesome college, get that career

stable job. And then that's when your life begins. So I just kind of followed up by blindlessly. Um, I mean, I do love helping people.

I like, I love being social. I guess that's what kind of kept me going for so long. Um, but honestly, looking back, I really don't know why I stay in it for so long.

I guess I just didn't really question What else was there for me. It was just some that was like, everyone around me influenced me to think. Um, and I honestly I guess back then, too, I didn't know myself enough to even know what I wanted.

So, yeah, and then also, it's just like my family. The cousins that are successful were like doctors, like the ones that were like, highly praised in our family were like, married and they were like a doctor

or lawyer or some sort of like career in that way. So I was like, Okay, um, I guess I should bring like, some like my parents work so hard for me I should probably listen to them and do something for them to kind of show my gratitude towards

them I guess that's what my motivation was back then. And so when and what was your first experience with modeling like? It was awkward! so when I started modeling was a bit random.

Um, I because I felt back then looking back because I didn't live my true self. I had a lot of insecurities and I didn't have any confidence. I, you know, I wasn't myself.

I was just listening to what everyone else wanted me to be and I cared about what my parents and what my culture or like, whoever, whoever looked at me I just cared about what they perceived me as so. I didn't back then I can honestly say I didn't feel beautiful even

though I probably faked it. It wasn't so my first year in college, which was when I was at UT. Um, my first love or like my ex boyfriend, my very first one like, broke up with me and I felt like

that moment my road shattered because I became codependent on him. At around that time I didn't, I wasn't really close to my family. I was kind of questioning, like, Who am I?

Because I was failing. in Austin. I was failing school. So it's just like, Who am I and I just randomly reached out to this photographer in Houston said like, hey, like, I want to

take some pictures can I like you know, book a shoot with you? And the intention behind it was just that I wanted to feel beautiful. I wanted to feel like I just wanted to have some nice pictures, right?

Like I just wanted to dress up and like have some nice pictures of me like Why not? And then I did the shoot with him or with that photographer and my first shoot was really awkward, like I didn't know how to pose, I

felt really weird. I was like, all shy and like body conscious. But then the photos when I got them back turned out really great.

And whenever I posted them, and then he posted them, a lot of people saw me through social media and they just kind of started like dming me saying, like, oh, like, I would love to like, you know, collaborate with you or shoot with you. And that's really the beginning.

And also, during that time, I became a blogger. And so like a lot of photos were being like, made of me for my blog. And so it's like how a lot of people kind of discover me from there.

That's how I was eight. Yep, at that you really don't know what's gonna lead you. And so how did that transition happen?

How did your family react? My family, not just like my mom and dad, so they were like divorced already. But um, my generally my family like, both sides. They thought, excuse my language but they thought i was a

slut. They thought like, Why is she showing more body like why she dressing this way? Because before I used to like dress like very, like not conservative but just like simple like I didn't really care about fashion I just

wore like jeans, Sperry's, T-shirt, ponytail. I'm wearing a T-shirt in a ponytail right now. But like, like back then like that was I didn't really care about what I looked like, um, I was just

like, whatever. But um, you know, when I started taking more photos, I saw how confident and like beautiful I looked in those photos. They kind of made me take care of myself more and it made me like you know,

exercise and like, I know just like take my, take care of myself, because I did that I grew more and I grew more confident. But yeah, my family took it.

I was like, What are you doing? Like, why are you wearing these crazy clothes? Like, why do you look crazy? You know, like, they're kind of like shaming me like you're a slut, like you showing too

much skin, like, what would people think of you? Like, why are you doing all this stuff? So that was the beginning.

But now like, they're really supportive. It took like, a couple years, but they saw that I was happy. They saw that it's like more like an art or like an expression or like how I express myself and they really just kind

of, I mean, they can't change me now. So they're like, you know, like, you're happy that you get to go on trips, you get to go on, like fashion shows. So like, Who are they to say that, like, anything so now they're

supportive of in the beginning, it was very, it was very rocky like, yeah, yeah, I can imagine I can totally Imagine that. So did you have a sit down? talk with them? Are you just like, keep silent and do your things to prove that

there's something you're serious about. So growing up, I feel like this is kind of like a what a lot of like, Asian Americans experience growing up, for whatever reason, we don't really openly talk to our

parents. It's not that we don't want to I feel like there's like a communication border, maybe with like, the generation or like, how they were brought up and how we were brought up is like different.

So that we can understand but because of psychology, because I was like, you know, being more aware of how to communicate. I started to talk to my parents or like, at least my dad more because my

mom and I weren't really like on talking terms after high school. But um, I started to kind of like communicating to my dad more like saying like, yes, like I do this, like it makes me happy.

And, you know, like, he doesn't really understand but he saw that me being consistent, with being creative or whatever it is that I choose to do. He saw that I always, like, did what I say. And he said I was happy.

Um, so now I openly- I openly share stuff with him, but it took many many years to achieve that bosso a couple years ago to a lot of things happen a lot happened the past three years, my brother

actually came out. My brother's gay. So around that time, it was like, I think I told my dad, like, oh, like, you know, in this world where no one really accepts him like why make

our house like why not make our house a place where he's accepted you know either choose to accept them and love them or reject him and he's gonna like run away and never get to see your son.

Really or get to know him at all. And so I think that like, kind of put my dad in perspective, and ever since then really, um, my brother's out, we're both creative. And he

just sees that we're happier. And he sees that, like, you know, being open and just like communicating just like if it's like, even if it's little like, oh, like, I'm not feeling happy today, or like, oh, like, there's a bad

day at work. I don't feel like talking. It really changed our family dynamic and how we communicate. So now we like tell him, you know, like, I feel like parents should know, you know, what their kids are up to.

And so we share little, you know, things here and there. But obviously, like, I'm, like, for instance, like whenever I started becoming like a freelancer, I didn't tell him until after I did it.

So I feel like I kind of tell him whenever it's like, I'm officially doing it not like we're it's too premature because it's too premature. And I'm telling him like, oh, like I'm gonna do this and never do it. It's like he's never he's not gonna like Believe me.

So I always tell my dad openly once I kind of like halfway done it, or I've done it, so that he's like, oh, okay, like, I see you do it. So, yeah, yeah. So have you ever found yourself in dilemma like, you know, like,

this career path is very new. And some people might think of it as like unstable, like unrealistic. I might say, yeah, we heard. We hear that a lot. Right?

And, you know, being surrounded with an Asian culture where everyone is like, either a doctor or lawyer or an engineer. Have you ever found yourself have concerns over how your future my turns

out? Uh, definitely, yes. Um, whenever. Whenever I told my parents that I've failed my first year of college, and I didn't want to be in medical anymore.

Which was like 18 years of my life. They were devastated. They're like, you're gonna, you're just gonna fail in life and you're not they just, you know,

like they worried so they're just like, you're never going to go back to school like, what are you gonna do with your life? And those questions are really hard and even whenever people now even there's some family members now that they still don't understand.

Um, yeah, like I run into those dilemmas, but even know as like a model they're like, that's not even like a stable thing or like, it's not gonna last long. Um, I

kind of mentally exercise that. I accepted it. I'm like, okay, like, that's how they perceive it. That's how other people may perceive this field rather be like creative or an artist or whatever.

That's how they perceive it. But they don't know themselves because they're not doing it or they're not trying it and So I like, I listen, and I'm like, okay, like, you have very valid

points. But I think because gradually throughout the years, like those little victories I've had, like, you know, like booking my first paid modeling job or like, or like going to New York Fashion Week, or like

flying to a different state for modeling or making money online, or like starting my own little thing online. Like, I feel like those little victories really helped me build my confidence and like, oh, wow, like, I can do

this, like, this is something that's possible. Um, and not having anyone around you that's doing the same thing as you it can be difficult because it can make you feel lonely. Because you can't like, you know, I can't go to like,

my cousins or my friends or anything and say like, oh, like, how do you do this? Or like, like, how do I set my rates? Or how do I, you know, like, how do I do this?

Like, you really actually have to figure it out on your own. I guess that's like, the hardest part whereas like, you know- Kind of like alone in these decisions. But I don't know.

I think also I kind of fell in love with it, the fact that it is uncertain, the fact that it's unstable. I think that's what makes it exciting and makes it something that's has plenty of room for innovation and growth.

Because even like now social media like a decade ago, it wasn't what it is now. So imagine like, another 10 years, it may be stable, and it may produce even different types of jobs that we may not have now, or definitely not back

then. So that's something that I kind of keep in mind that like, everything's kind of uncertain, like, even if you went to school and got a degree, like, for instance, like right now, like, I mean,

I feel bad for the class of 2020 because like, they worked so hard to graduate this year. And like, look what happened, like, Look what's happening, like everything is uncertain. Like Harvard's free online, it's like a you

know, like life it's so life in general is so uncertain. So I always think Okay, so I'm not in control, no one's in control. So might as well kind of like, make those little decisions

and decide what I can do right now like myself. And I guess that's like how I kind of cope with in like, how I kind of try to explain to some people like, you know, everything is uncertain so might as well do something that you're certain of, which is like, you know you like

you're certain you know who you are, you know, what you can do in any situation. So, we're not like, Why- Why go off of something that someone else is telling you?

Why not like, seek those answers or try to problem solve it yourself. Um, so that's what really gets me going in those uncertain times. And it's exciting. I mean, keeps you on your toes.

Always very valid, though. Yeah, yeah. So as a full time student and doing modeling all those creative things at the same time, how difficult it is for you to search for

job opportunities, do you have an agent that take care of it for you, or do you do it all on yourself? All by myself. Um, so it's actually interesting how like, the past three years or how I've kind of like

evolved and how like modeling has helped me get to them today. Um, so yes, I'm a freelance model. So that means I book my own gigs. I No, go to local businesses, and I just kind of meet people and it's like,

word of mouth. It's like, oh, like, she worked with me. She's great. And they recommend me to someone. So it's kind of like, how that works. Or you can also pitch yourself, like how I got into New York Fashion

Week, I just reached out to super brands, through email or through social media, and I'm like, okay, like, now I'm a team model. I'm based in Houston and like, I love your brand and like we just put out like a

business. Like, it's really like that. And if they like you, they'll book you. They don't and that's okay to just keep Trying. But I do everything myself,

I do eventually want to be signed to an agency or have an agent for my modeling career because now I'm becoming I'm kind of like going into social media managing or kind of going into that kind of aspect of the creative fashion field.

Because it's something that I know I can do like super long term. And something also like if you are a model Usually, it's not their only thing. I mean, unless you're like, like up there like celebrity status, that's your full time

gig. But for the most part, everyone or whoever's a model has like other things, too. It's not like I mean, nothing that you can't do it full time. But for me, I just like having multiple things.

So it's all it's kind of like a side- not a side but it's like one of my main sources of income. But yeah, I do everything myself through email or social media. And because I started modeling, I learned how to use social

media or like online to kind of like make money or find connects or how to like communicate online, which is also important nowadays. So that's yeah, that's pretty much on my own.

I would love to have an agent eventually, but I don't think that will happen. So maybe, after this all passes. So you talked about New York fashion week, and I think it's a very big thing. So can you tell me more about it?

What do you do in it? Yeah. So Oh, my gosh. So luckily, it was before all of this happened, so I went in February.

Um, so I told myself for the past three years or so whenever I started modeling, I'm like, oh, like, I want to go New York Fashion Week. But I never I don't know.

I guess I never like I always felt like I wasn't ready or like I didn't think I was good enough. It wasn't till this year. Even though it's been like four months in.

I told myself like my new year's resolution was like, You didn't do everything that you've ever wanted to do this year. Like, you know who you are, you have the confidence, like, you know what to do. So just go after

what you want this year 2020. And so I kind of like I don't know, I don't know if I like the phrase like manifesting because I'm not too sure if I believe it or not. But I did kind of manifest like, okay, like, in

2020 I'm going to walk in New York Fashion Week like, that is what one of my goals is I'm going to do it. And because I kind of made like a vision board, I kind of like set that goal for myself. Um, I just

emailed for like months and just like reached out to brands and like, kept my portfolio like updated. And then I got that, I got a reply from the ground in New York that's like, Oh, we would love to have you and

so they flew me out. And they paid for part of my stay because the first part of my stay, it was like my friend's birthday. So I paid for that. But like the rest of the time I stayed in New York, they paid for my

Airbnb. And I've been to New York multiple times. I think two times before, this past February just for fun. But this time since I've been there so many times, I'm like, okay, like, I'm just gonna

take it slow. Like, I'm just gonna, like, go to my show, and I'm just gonna network and hang out with people, eat, because I've done all the tourist things.

But honestly, it was like, I don't even know how to explain it. It was very surreal. I felt lowkey out of place because there's not a lot of First of all, there's not a lot of like Asians in

general, in that industry, but then being Vietnamese means it's like, you're unicorn because usually, it's always like the Chinese or Japanese girls who are like much more taller and they have like a different skin complexion than me.

So I felt really honored and I felt like this was like a dream like wow, I'm here I'm like five five Vietnamese-American and I'm here in New York walking for a show. And it's honestly, it's

hectic. Anyone that's ever been in a fashion show should nothing ever goes to plan, that's just how creative people are. It's just always like up in the air and spontaneous– spontaneous. So yeah, I was there

rehearsing the day of the show. I have to wake up early, got ready for like hair and makeup. Get dressed. And the show was that night. So like, the whole entire day is that you get ready, practice and everything.

And then like at night, it's like Showtime and then after that, it's like, I'm burnt out and tired. And then yeah, that's kind of how New York went. I actually have film from that trip. I just haven't edited it, edited it to put on my YouTube yet.

Yeah, that was my very first New York Fashion Week and I plan on going again. And I want to go to other fashion shows too, but we shall see. So since you mentioned that you felt like a little out of place at New

York Fashion Week, it's kind of like reminds me of the two very extreme and contrasting sides in modeling fashion industry, like one side is, like a free platform for people to express self expression, like

creativity and all the other things like rigid beauty standards, like elitism and materialism. Have you ever like had thoughts about it? Or have you experienced it?

Especially when you were in New York? You know, when it's so glamorous, and you're surrounded by all these, like, polished image people? Have you ever experienced that and what's

your thought on it? Of course, I mean, not even just New York just in Houston or anywhere, really. What I quickly learned in the beginning is that and this is something I feel like

everyone kind of still experiences in their own way. Um, you can't compare yourself to other people. You know, like we kind of a lot of people have a habit of that. And so in the beginning, I'm where I like, stopped that

habit going into this industry because what good- What good is it if I kept comparing myself to like this other model and like, you know, like, she's her and I'm myself, and I think my

habit before was like, I would compare myself to the other Asian models, even though they are like Asian, they're, we're still not the same because, again, I'm like a darker skin like, I'm Vietnamese.

I'm not. I'm not them. And I've always felt like, Oh, my nose is too big or like I'm too short, but it gets to a point where I think I realized in my head I'm like, why am I

saying this to myself like you're beautiful, like I really embraced, like I know it kind of sounds cheesy but I really embrace who I am like all my unique and different features I have whether be my eyes or my nose

or just my aura my personality honestly, that's a big part in any job. I feel not just modeling or creativity, like in any job assert your personality and how you work with people. Um, so I felt like that was what

makes me different and it took a long time, but I think being different, even though it has its cons. It's really I think it's amazing. Like I think like, you know, I'm, I'm Vietnamese-American like Who else can say

that there are Vietnamese-American model. I don't see anywhere else here that's that so I'm here and that makes me feel special and unique. And I think what really pushes me as I like, to anyone who to any

other girl or even my little like cousins, you know, like I have little girl cousins that I look up to me like any girl that maybe that may be Vietnamese-American or Asian American in general that want to do this, but don't have the courage or don't know, who to look to.

Or they don't see ads or campaigns or models that look like them in those events like, I think, being one of them, or being like a model. I'm kind of, I don't know,

I say, like, because I mean, damn. Let's say I'm not in my shoes, and I'm like a girl like, that isn't in this field. I would want someone that

looks like me. And these catalogs or in these shows, because that would give me the courage and confidence to pursue that too like, Oh, she can do it. Like I can do it too. And so I think that's what really pushes me when it comes to being in these types of shows.

Like, you know, like y'all, I mean, the typical beauty standard is great, like they're amazing. Beautiful, but I like to represent the girls that look like me because they're also beautiful and amazing themselves.

So yeah, I don't know if that makes sense. I kind of, that kind of makes sense and makes a lot of... Yeah. So how did you improve your modeling skills? Because you mentioned you just ran away,

booked a shoot and then how did you, how do you improve yourself to who you are now as a model? Um, I think let's see, like, first as a person, like, I guess, like a first impression, or whenever people

see like when I tell people all my model, I think they automatically assume like, Oh, she's pretentious, like she stuck up or arrogant or like she's, you know, posh or fancy. I don't really think that's what modeling

is. I really think it's like a lifestyle. It's like something to help you build your confidence, your self image and just like No, just one, just something like self care like something that makes you

feel good and modeling, I never really thought it would be so involved and I never thought it'd be like a big part of my life. I think it just honestly I always do everything out of fun.

Like, if I'm not having fun, or I'm not enjoying it, then why am I doing it? modeling was just one of those things that whenever I was going, maybe going through something like whether it'd be like a breakup or like something with my

family, or maybe I'm feeling like sluggish or anything like in that nature, I kind of turned modeling into a form of therapy, just like how you know, with singing, singing helps people with anxiety and

so modeling kind of became like my source of therapy. It was like my escape. It was my like, way of entering a different world and like

showing different sides of myself. That wouldn't make me look that crazy if I like walked out and like some sort of makeup or outfit look, but it was just, I guess, a form of therapy for me at first, um, to

improve. That's like, kind of hard question because I think it's just the fact that I kept, I kept doing it like, like practice, right? Like, whenever I collaborated with photographers, I became

more comfortable in front of the camera. And then whenever I kind of evolved into going to shows, I practice walking, which you would think is easy, but actually really hard because you have to do it a certain

way. But you have to posture a certain way your face like it's actually a lot of practice. I think being in front of people, having all those eyes on you, I just became comfortable.

It was just something that I kept doing gradually, that it became second nature to me. Also practicing in front of the mirror helps like another kind of sounds silly, but it's like, you know, dancing like dancers dancing from the mirror to see what they look like or

what, you know, what looks you know more smooth or what flows and same thing as modeling. I practice in front of the mirror to like, kind of know, like my angles are, what makes my body look good,

or what doesn't. Honestly modeling is kind of like an illusion. Like people think I have a nice body but I'm built like a- a noodle. It's just the angle.

You get to know yourself like, kind of physically and then because of like your because of like you taking care of yourself and everything builds also your inner beauty as well. So I guess that's kind of how

Yeah, so you mentioned like, there's some postures that are very expected of models are you take any inspirations from any models or do learn from any favorite models. Um, I think, actually, I don't really have specific, like role

models or models that I admire. I love Rihanna, Rihanna's not really a model. She's just just like an amazing business. I have actually, I have role

models for business women. But when it comes to model of modeling, or models, I take inspo from like, many just like even just like, the girls that just starting out in Houston or

anywhere like I, if I see it on social media, well, first of all, like, my social media, everyone I follows just like everyone I know or who or who inspires me, so my feed is always like, you know, positive.

So, um, I take a lot of inspo from social media or like just girls in general. Just look girls. who are pretty. And I'm like, wow, like she's

really rocking that outfit like your smile. I kind of take it like that or I just kind of watch on YouTube like, Oh wow, like she's really killing it. I'm just kind of like pick it up like that I guess like, whatever I

consume is kind of like how I learned. We– I don't really have been like set role models like that just business women or set rules. Yeah, so I was told you have a YouTube channel.

So what is the general theme of your YouTube channel? Would you say? My niche is definitely fashion when I say fashion specifically for photoshoots like it's a lot of like behind the scenes or how my process of doing

these types of shoots whether it be like, editorial or commercial. That's like, how I can do fashion. It's not really like styling. I could do one like that, but I'm

not. I'm not really like passionate about styling, unless it's like myself. Because I don't think I can style anyone else. But also I do love talking about psychology. Again, that's like, one of my bigger passions.

I feel like I don't know, I personally watched psychology videos online, like, it's like a positive message or, like for the girls that may not know what they're doing with their life, which is like, I mean, that's still me.

But I like watching those types of like, videos so that's one so it's fashion, psychology. And I think overall, it's like life vlogs but not like the vlogs where it's like,like what

I do on a daily it's like– the like the interesting parts of their life. like the travel and like, like, oh, like, like, I'm starting my own business like those are my life vlogs but I guess like in general, my YouTube is

lifestyle. So what are the reasons why you started blogging? Did you want to document your stories or reach out to people that might have the same experience as you? So I actually had a I started a YouTube my very first YouTube was whenever I was 18.

But it flopped because I didn't know what I was doing. So I kind of like left that. I launched this channel in November.

Um, and if you actually see my very first video back– back then, like, whenever I was a kid, my brother and I used to love recording ourselves like I always I don't always a weird child always, like, Did weird

things in front of the camera. So I guess it was always just always in me that I'm like, I'm like comfortable in front of the camera. But I started because I don't know! I just wanted to have fun.

I wanted to have another platform to express myself. I feel like YouTube is a social media, where you can actually be yourself that you people can kind of see you in a different light versus Instagram, it's a lot of like the

highlights of your life like the prettiness Twitter is just Twitter's just like your mind. Tik Tok is just weird I have a tik tok but like, tik tok is like, so weird like with a family, you know, like the people back in, like

Vietnam like to see me but it was like something I feel like I could show my personality on. So I just started to like that, and– and I realize that because of what I grew up I– I grew up with childhood

depression. So looking back then I felt like I don't remember much and the reason why I don't remember much is because I never-– I never like looked or like stayed present. I've always just looked at my past or

like always, like, didn't see a future for me. So, um, I realized I think like last year, that it's really important. to document yourself, I mean, it's kind of like, self involved, but it's really like you're never

gonna live that moment again. So you should I mean, not like always be in your phone but you should like documented, like, why not you can look back and see how far you've grown. And also YouTube or the internet is forever now I guess.

So having that on there is timeless. So like, whenever I grew up, if I decided to have kids or who or even my family or whoever, like they can look me up and they can see like, oh, like that's me at age 21.

So I think that's like kind of the reason why I started. I just wanted to create, to document more and have like, kind of, sort of like a time cousecourse capsule for myself.

That's really generally why I started it, but whenever I started out, that's also how I feel like it helped with my modeling and my, my like, social media career because I had this new platform, a lot of brands are like, wow, like, you have this now. That's awesome.

Like, do you think you can, you know promote our brand on your channel and we'll like, pay you so that was like another source of income, which is cool.

I didn't have that intention but I was like oh, okay So yeah, so um working in a modeling and fashion industry your style becomes the identity. So how would you describe your style?

My style, it changes a lot. Okay, but definitely, I I feel like a big part of my style is reusing. So I'm a big like, thrifty person.

I like Depop. I like looking. I like having unique pieces of clothing. Of course I have like the, like the basics, like you know like the jeans or like the black top, the white top.

I think those are like essentials for your wardrobe because you can just style those. But then like the unique pieces, I get like to support local or small businesses like boutiques, so I don't really like, um, I mean, shoot, like

maybe one day I can afford like those name brands like Louie Vuitton and all that, but I don't really see the need for it because even though you may have that stuff that doesn't mean you have fashion sense, I'm just saying like, just because you got the name brand stuff doesn't mean you have style.

But me I'm a broke college student so got to work with what I have. So I like to go thrifting. I like the idea of like reusing.

So whenever I get new clothes, I like donate and then I get like, like more clothes. So I say minimal for the most part when it comes to like my wardrobe. Um, I guess I thrift I support local or small

businesses or boutiques, um, because I feel like I have control of like where my money goes. So if I know like, Okay, I'm purchasing this shirt. I know I love it.

I'm like intentionally buying. I'm not just like buying to buy as if I were to go to like a Forever 21 or something like, well, I'm just bored. I just wanted to know, just buy it.

I'm not really like, I'm more of like, I intentionally buy things. I only buy things that make me happy I feel like or, yeah, I buy it because I'm like, oh, it makes me happier.

I'm gonna wear it multiple times. And I know where my money's going I know like my me purchasing this is going to go to this small business or like this individual, which I think is really cool.

Um, and also because I shop that way it makes me shop online or Instagram in a different light because I'm like, like, I want to support like a designer that may not have been known yet. And because they're like individual designer, they have more unique

clothes. So I kind of like purchasing those. That's like kind of my style. Also. There is this, I don't know,

should i call them a startup? Well, I'm gonna call them startup but there's this startup. They're called Rent the Runway. And their idea of shopping is renting.

So you Rent the Runway is like you rent these high brand clothes rather be like dresses or jewelry or bags for like a very affordable price or you can even subscribe to them.

And they send it to you. You wear it for like four days or one time because you know how we are, you know, girls are like we go to weddings or whatever, and we only wear it once or like for Instagram, we're only gonna wear like one

outfit for a picture and then like you don't want to wear it again. So I found Rent the Runway, and I started renting from them, like also for shoots, like because I model I'm not gonna wear this like extravagant outfit

again. So I should probably like renting is cool. I can return it. So that's how I kind of shop: thrifting, renting and Small

businesses. So what is the most important to you and you're building your outfit or that you're styling, your, you know, your photoshoot concept is it about any, like, message you always want to convey or it's like a

sustainability for fashion. So, stuff like that. I feel like of course, like whenever someone else books me for a job I, I just kind of I'm just the face I

just kind of show up and like, wear whatever they want me to wear. But when it comes to my personal photoshoots or whenever I get to control, like, okay, like this is my idea for a photo shoot and I want to do

it this way. Um, it always branches off of like, I get my inspiration from music. I feel like whenever I listen to a song, this is how my brain works. I listen to a song and then it like forms like this music video

in my head. And then from that music video that I have imagined in my head is kind of like the style of clothing I want so let's say like I listened to, I don't know like an 80's song and I get like this like idea of

like, oh, like I get this like music video of the 80s outfit or something in my mind I kind of like shop or find those pieces and that's how I style myself but the past personal shoots I've done where they had like a

deeper meaning towards them. Um, I think my first one was like kind of a lingerie shoot and I was getting really tired of seeing girls just doing lingerie in the

bedroom, which is you know, like that's a, that's a place where you're supposed to wear lingerie. I'm like, if I wore laundry outside, but like made it into like a unique editorial way and I did that and also

I feel like Also being Asian girl. Um, we're kind of like portrayed as being cute. Or, you know, innocent, or like a, you know, like a little China doll, um, or like, I feel like that's how some

people perceive me. But the, I guess the American part of me, I know I'm sexy, like, I know, like, I'm, I can be beautiful in this way or

like, or I don't know, I just want to own up to my body, you know, like this is my body is like I can wear whatever I want to wear. Um, I guess like, that's how my first shoot was inspired was like, Okay, I'm, I'm

sexy, I'm confident and I can wear whatever I want. You know, like, it's not that typical norm of like, Oh, I have to be, like, conserve-conservative or, you know, cutesie?

Or adorable like I'm hot and sexy. That's who I am... sometimes. My most recent shoot, it was like this with this like neon tuxedos like nipple tassels and stuff.

That was definitely inspired by I guess, just be unapologetically myself. Um, I just, yeah, I always encountered that conflict with like, oh, like you're Vietnamese-American like you don't

fit in with the culture you don't fit in with the American culture and I don't know, I guess I was just kind of sick and tired of hearing that and so that shoot my last year was like, you know, I like this is who I am I'm both, you know, like I don't fit in

either or maybe I'm just my own category and that is totally fine. Um, and I think it's okay. I mean, it's okay. If you feel confident covered up.

That's awesome. Like if you feel confident wearing less, that's awesome too. Like, I have control of that. All of us have control of that, who are you to say? You know, like, “Who are you to say that I don't look good if I feel good?”

Yeah. So that's where it mostly kind of stems from most of the time. I try to just be myself and because I'm being myself, hopefully that inspires other people just to be themselves or other, you know, Asian girls that may be like, Oh, I want to do that.

But I'm like, scared, and I don't know how that's gonna look on me, because there's no other person that wears it like that. So yeah, so you talked about like, the very bold, very bold American side of yourself, and how about

the Vietnamese culture? Have you ever tried, like, incorporate it into your outfit into your styling? So actually, there's a lot of amazing Vietnamese designers.

They're very high end, which I think, I don't know. That's just amazing. They-There are like, there's Vietnamese designers and like Asian like creatives out there that are super successful. I just don't know why like, as a community we don't talk

about them. Like i don't know why. Like there's so many successful Yeah, um, I incorp-– I know for sure. When if I ever get married, I'm definitely going to have an áo dài, which is like the

Vietnamese traditional dress. I just think it's absolutely gorgeous. I think um, in my shoots. I actually had one shoot a while ago, it was very like it did have my Vietnamese culture side in

it. I don't know if that's still up yet or still but I think the fact that you know, Vietnamese people whenever you see them wear clothing or like the pop stars or the áo dài is very like bright colors.

Like they just wear all sorts of colors. And I think that's how like it kind of influenced my style because I love colors like the, like bright colors. And even like, the minimal side of like, the, like the me

style, it's like, you know, white and black or it's like even though it's like a, like a neutral color. They have like very I don't know, it's like a statement piece still like maybe like white, but it's like this cool, like texture design

that they have on it that makes it just unique. So I think that's how Vietnamese style kind of incorporates in my style. It's definitely the colors that they use and the jewelry that they have.

I love it. Yeah, yeah. So yeah, so there's definitely a lot of like, inspirational Vietnamese people working in the industry. Have you ever collaborated with them?

Or do you have any names that you would love to collaborate with? Um, so I mean, I love the smaller designers because I feel like they're like the ones that are eventually going to get there. But it's so funny.

My dad whenever he was a teenager, he took this girl. Her name is Chloe Dao. She actually has it. Yeah, she can drive a switch. Right. I think I passed it before.

Yeah. She's, she's in River Oaks and she won like, fashion runway. My dad actually took her to prom. Oh, so like, he's

on like, a Vietnamese team. I don't know. He was on like the Vietnamese like, some talk show. I don't know. But it was like, her prom dress that she wore to their prom, was her like very first dress she ever

made. And it's like a picture of my dad and her. It's so whenever my very beginning of my like, I guess modeling career. Um, I think that we– I rediscovered them like, “Oh my

gosh!” Like Chloe Dao! Like, she's, she's Vietnamese, and she's like a successful designer. A lot of people know her. Um, and so I

reached out to her, I think through email and I told her like, “hey, like I'm Jocelyn,” I'm like, “I don't know if you remember him, but his name is Kong. And I'm his daughter and I'm and I'm into fashion and I kind of want, like some advice.” And at that time, she actually had like a

fashion show. This was 20- I wanna say like 2018, I think I reached out to her she was having a fashion show, and in there like River Oaks or something, and she said, “Come!” aAnd so me and my brother went,

and that was one of the first fashion shows I actually went to see. I wasn't a part of it, but I got to see. And because I went there, I met other like Asian

designers that were a part of that community too. And Houston like they're Daniel Nguyen. He's also another like, cultural like designer in Houston. So I got to meet them and from there, I kind of like, got

to kind of explore the fashion industry through them because I didn't know if I wanted to be a designer, did I want to be a part of the business side of it? I was really unsure back then. But I met them and I got to like talk to them and they gave me some

advice. And they told me their stories. And kind of just, I guess I like collaborating. I guess it was more like they kind of

like sort of mentored me, or they just kind of like got to know me a little bit and gave me like valuable advice and then kind of went off from there. But yeah,

I forget the question to be honest. We, I went to or I haven't worked with buying or like Chloe Dao and those people. Y eah. So that being said, do you stay engaged with

the Vietnamese community of your— either your college or your neighborhood? You say engaged with them? Right now I'm not engaged with anyone.

Yeah. But I say, for the most part me personally, I kind of stay in my own lane. I try not.

I don't know if it sounds bad or not, I'm not super involved with any sort of community like I am. I am a part like, I'm like, sort of like acquaintances with certain different groups of people.

But I never actually would say that I'm actually like, in just one I'm kind of like that person that kind of like, goes around like, they know who I am like, Oh, hey, I'm not like super involved or I'm not

like super niched to like, Oh, I'm only in this or i'm only in that. Um, again, I feel like sometimes I'm just in this limbo. I'm like in between, because like, most of the time, I don't really relate to just my Vietnamese side or my American side.

I think I'm kind of out of touch with my culture, because my dad is a little bit more American than, like the old fashion, like traditional way of raising kids.

And I'm not like religion wise too. It's not part of my community either. So it's like, I'm kind of just in between.

I just, I think my only Asian influence is really my family. I do I think we're actually going to Vietnam. Not It was supposed to be this year, but next year, that was my first time ever actually

going there. But, yeah. So for a Vietnamese American to pursue a career in modeling, in fashion, do you find yourself sometimes limited to opportunities? Or do you think it's more open now?

I mean, I think there's a limit to I, I like to say that there's no limitations. I do believe that anything is possible. Like, I do think that there is a spot for anyone in any field that they may want to be in.

But of course, there's going to be like limitations. Because, like, it's the– it's the type of industry that I'm in. It's like, of course, like they, there's certain jobs or certain shows that require a certain height. Or, you know,

like, the modeling industry, it's, I don't wanna say it's judgmental, but it's very, like you are judged for appearance, which I think is, I'm okay with it. Like because I'm confident in myself.

Like if this person is the thing, I'm like, that's okay with me. It's nothing personal. I'm not ugly. It's nothing like that.

It's just I don't fit the brand. But I don't there's limitations sometimes where it's like, okay, like height, or maybe I'm not like the skin tone, but I do definitely think the industry is

changing, especially now it's like becoming more inclusive. When it comes to the LGBT, or like the colored community like, or minority community. I think it's becoming more inclusive, but only

time will tell really. Yeah. So what makes me feel better though, is like, um, whenever I, whenever I feel discouraged, like, oh, like maybe this is not for me. I just go to the

bread aisle in the supermarket and look at all the different bread like, you know, they're all doing the same thing. They're all making bread, but they're all individually making their own money.

So I feel like that's how I kind of think of any industry. Oh, okay. Yeah, there's gonna be millions of people doing the same thing. But you are, you're unique in your own way or you're you

so there's a spot for you. Like everyone has like an equal chance for success or whatever they want is just a matter of if you want it that bad to stay and be persistent and you have hope and faith and continuing,

yeah. So I also noticed that you have a stage name, right? Oh, yeah. So can you tell me the origin of it? How did you come up with it? And um, so my, my stage name is “Jxss Bxss”.

Um, it is still similar to my name Jocelyn. Um, but Jxss Bxss actually originally whenever I was in high school, I guess back then I, well, I'm still this way

but I know there's like a side of me that can kind of be bossy I because I'm bossing you to be bossy and also like, what the heck like so I'm bossy but like the guy that says all this stuff to you is not bossy?

I don't see that. But I know what I want. I'm like, I'm like open to like, how other people may do things. But if you're not if the job is not getting done, I'm gonna, like, hold you accountable.

Like I understand, like, I hope people hold me accountable. I'm very transparent. Like, if I'm not doing something then tell me, you know, it's not gonna hurt my feelings. So because I'm okay with that, I guess I kind of do that to other people.

So whenever I was in high school, I was like the president of my class, I was like, in all these organizations super involved in school, and I just got things done. Like whatever I put my mind to, I did it.

And I guess it just means people portrayed mean bossy and I'm like, okay, like, “I'm bossy, I guess.” And that's how I guess it kind of branched off because it rhymed.

Just “Jxss Bxss”. Oh, that's pretty cool! Yeah. And so how do you say you are using social media to advance your career?

Um, social media, I think is a very, I think as I think of it as a tool, like I know, like, it can be a form it can be just like you just sharing pictures with people. But I think it's a tool.

I think It's a way of being connected to people, not just in your own community but like to the world on the internet. I don't know, I think my mom or like my parents always told

me you know, like, be careful what you put out there because it's gonna be out there forever. So I always– I'm always like very like intentional with what I post.

Um, because I know I can like one day maybe if I became something people can like, look me up and like, I don't want anything that is bad to surface, right. So I'm always intentional. Not always, like, I'm pretty intentional when it comes to posting,

um, social media has helped me because that is definitely the way people can find you. Especially Instagram. Instagram is like one of the bigger ones for modeling. It's like a portfolio that people just kind of like, see you.

And it's just kind of like a way like, it's just another form of communication. I love talking, I love communicating. So it was just like, another way for me to get my message out there to show the world

who I am. And it has helped me through my modeling career, it has helped me gain the skills of like, I guess like reading analytics and like, you know, it's kind of down to a science

in a way which is kind of, I don't know if it's bad or not, but you can use it to sell things. You can use it to you know, show that you support a certain group or a cause.

And now it's kind of transitioning or helping me get jobs or not just like modeling. But now we're going into this age of, you know, social media or like technological like,

advances that people are realizing that digital marketing and like constant creations are like really important for anyone's business, or for anyone to kind of find their business. So it has helped me kind of

like, form my own career for myself besides modeling, because it's so unstable or not like super unstable, but because it's still new in a way I can kind of make something out of it for myself, and I'd like that

freedom. And eventually, I think it will probably become stable and like, they're probably be jobs off of it. But for now, it's like it's a pretty cool thing but it can be mentally draining if you don't know how to you

know, if you don't know how to not compare yourself or control or balance like how much screen time you have, because there's a lot of creatives or just in general people that do that, but I kind of Yeah, I just

don't like the feeling of being drained or comparing myself so I kind of take control of it myself. So, what are you wish to see more on the social media platforms? It can either be you know,

representation form of community or girl power and fashion industry something like that. Um, let's see… I– I know which I wanna see less, but I think

one of my bigger like inspiration or like hopes right now, is my brother is actually my best friend. So he's actually a singer and songwriter and musician. And he and I feel like as a community,

we noticed that there's like no representation of Asians in the music industry. I mean, we have like BTS now, but they haven't even hit. They haven't been hit number one in charts or anything, but there's no representation of

us in music, which I find like why, you know, I want to see. I want to see someone do something. Um, so because my brother is pursuing that career, it gives me the chance to help him with branding or

create content with him or for him. And I want to see more people release like meaningful music, like music that like you know, back in the 80s is about like love.

It's about like stories. But like, you know, it has some sort of meaning behind it besides like, these Tik Tok or like singles. I really don't even know what it's like, I don't know what

the heck like Old Town Road is like about like, like I don't understand, like, I don't know if it's like, I'm not old. I'm literally like 22 like, there's no way, I'm at the age where I'm like this is just ruckus like I don't

know, I feel like the creative would scare me. But I think like the creative community or like some industries are kind of going towards like clout or popularity or just making like quick money and quick success, which I'm kind of

getting tired of like seeing so I hope I want to see more like I want to see more art in any platform music, digital paintings, whatever that has more meaning behind it, if that makes sense like

hopefully after this, this, you know, Corona thing passes, people actually realize like, to spend time with people to take, like to actually value like certain moments and stuff that we take for granted.

Hopefully, I don't know, when we come out is that, there's just more art that means something, besides like quick success or quick popularity, like I want to see more inspirational things in that way.

Like, wow, you put time and thought into that, like, there's more albums instead of singles. There's more. There's more thought into the picture that you planned instead of you just flexing money.

Yeah. Yeah. And so, so what would you say is your ultimate goal? My ultimate goal, my ultimate goal would just be being doing what

I love which is creating when people ask me, like, what is your life's purpose is definitely creating, um, if I can do that full time, in a stable way, um, that'll be amazing just having

creative freedom. Like, just, if I want to have a photo shoot, I have a space for that and I can just do it. Um, I think, yeah I think that's like, my ultimate goal is

to do what I love, which is creating to always make, like influential or inspiring content, some like, content where it moves people, you know, to do something, not just like, have a quick Like or Subscribe, Like it

actually says something to them to motivate them to do something maybe different. Um, and I guess that's, yeah, I guess that's my ultimate goal. That's kind of broad but I've always

been the type-now I'm always the type of person to kind of gradually, like, evolve into something else. Like I don't, I can't.

I'm not one of those people. I don't think I can– I can be like, I want to be an engineer and do that I'm more of like a system person. I kind of like to form certain ways to do certain things.

And it takes me in a certain direction and it's kind of, like, uncertain, but I don't know, that's how I function. That's how modeling happened. That's how getting into

social media consulting happened, that all my best things are lined up in that way. So I'm just like, okay, like, yeah, yeah. So I feel like we covered a lot about your current career.

And I think for the last part of interview, I want to like, check in with how you're coping with this very unprecedented event. So how in what ways

has the Coronavirus epidemic impacted your life? Well, I'm super blessed to be in the position I am in today during this crisis because I know there's others that may not be as blessed or as lucky as

what I feel I've learned through this... Well, I definitely learned that I did not put as much time into my work as I as I thought I did before because before I was always busy, I felt like maybe I filled my time with

hanging out or just keeping busy you know, like I didn't actually like sit down and like focus on like, what I want to do. Um, it has, it's nice that I get to stay with my brother a lot.

I mean, we haven't fought yet, which is a nice thing, but I can just spend more time with my family. Um, it's nice to slow down from the fast-paced life I usually have. So I've actually

learned how to cook. Yeah. Which is what I was avoiding. Modeling is definitely different. Modeling is kind of on pause right now, but I'm still constantly creating,

because I'm learning different ways to create at home or like in my backyard or, which is like a prompt. It's like, “okay, like, you're not allowed to do these things. So how are you going to create, okay, now I

have to figure out how I'm going to do that.” But I'm also like, I also established a routine, which I felt like I lacked because I know as I'm just

I'm a bouncy person, I just love like being around like, bouncing everywhere. It's just who I used to be. But now I'm a bit more grounded where I'm okay like I wake up early like, you know, exercise I wasn't me I was lagging I didn't exercise.

Like I have I'm Vietnamese, I have a high metabolism and why don't— you know, I like, you know, I started stretching this stuff, I'm like okay. I'm in my early 20s, maybe I should start doing something.

I started reading I mean. I've always read but I've got to actually read more and learn more now I actually get to like choose, like I started online school; but because I have so much time now I

have like no excuse to, you know, be Facebook certified or Google Ads certified or read more books about whatever the heck I'm interested in. And yeah, I just started valuing like people more than I just became more aware

during this quarantine. But it does make me sad to think about, like, what maybe other people are going through that I may not be aware of, um, but I just

try to do my part, and, you know, being safe, or for me at least this way, I believe I feel like even though it's not fully true to make an impact in this society, it's like you kind of have to be

at a certain like socio economic status to actually like, you know, kind of make a difference rather be like donating a whole bunch or, you know, like those higher ups are always like, the ones that actually get to

impact what's happening even though like the little things matter, too. But I eventually do want to be one of those bigger people to make an impact so that whenever in the future, like when something like this

happens again, or like maybe something else that happens, I can actually like, play my part and, you know, do something, but I think, you know, wearing a mask and like staying safe staying at home is like

all I can do right now and, and so that's just my part. Um, but yeah, I think also health if you have good health, you won the lottery that's also something I realized too. Um, I mean, I've been knowing that; but

this, this is something that viruses and like, viruses are not prejudiced but I cannot pronounce that word but the virus can't see color. Like, I don't really like what's happening right now when it comes to like,

Oh, it's like the “Chinese virus” or like if they see Asian people out, and give us a weird look, like I don't really like what's happening with that. And on social media, or in general, it's showing some ugly colors

of people that we may not usually see before this, which makes me a bit afraid. But I try to stay positive. And I think that when we come out of this, maybe, maybe because of like, what this is doing, maybe it

will push those like creative individuals- Asians or just like anyone in general to really do what they want to do, you know, like, hopefully this like was like a realization like, you know, like we can't control school, we can't control anything.

So maybe we should just do what we want to do, because we really don't know how long we're here for, like how our health will be. No, I think that's, that's how the virus impacted me. So, has the outbreak

changed your estate perspective about the future? Um, if anything, I'm– I'm actually quite opto-I'm an optimistic person for the most part for my future or like for the future.

And I mean, just mind, I think that this virus is going to show you those industries that may not need to be there anymore.

I don't know what it may be, but like for certain businesses that may not be necessary anymore, but I think after this passes, that there's gonna be newer opportunities or careers that are going to be there that may not have been before

this, for example, like, um, like, for me, I am blessed to have known how to make money online or I switch to becoming a freelancer, social media consultant. Because now people are really demanding content

creation because no one can, you know, go out and like, do photo shoots or like, they're just certain businesses that don't have advertisement or like content. So they're looking for people to make stuff at home for them so that they can post on

their website or like to stay involved with their clients. So I find that interesting when what's happening like, Oh, we actually all have to communicate online now, there's some businesses realizing that social media is important or

that online presence is important. So they're looking for people that create, or that know how to work advertisements or stuff, or anything of that nature right now

because like right at home, which I think is, I think when we get all this, there's gonna mean the entrepreneurs, or just like people are gonna notice the holes and the, in the workplace, and I think it's gonna have

newer opportunities, and I think it's just gonna be like, a big change for us. And it's already a change for us, but I think, I think there's gonna be like this. Like, I don't know, I think it's gonna be like, there's gonna be

the room for innovation is going to be like in light. Like, I think there's gonna be like, “Oh, okay, like, wow, like, we didn't know that that was there.” So you know, we should probably solve that. So that because there's more problems though, I

think there's more room for innovation and solving and yeah, that's exciting. But at the same time, I'm, I'm tired of this house. So you mentioned about healthcare and IT.

Are there any other positive lessons that you learnt out of this pandemic? Um, I– I've always respected the healthcare, um, healthcare givers.

But during this time, I'm like, wow, like, wow, you're out there risking your lives to save people. And that is amazing.

Like, I think I mean, I've always really like them, but now I'm just like, wow, like y'all, y'all like. I don't have any words. I'm just like, wow, like, I don't even know how— they should get free therapy after this.

I don't know what reward like they, like they deserve like free tuition in, or something. Because I'm like, wow, like we are lacking individuals in that career.

Um, so I mean I'm not unfortunately I'm not one of those individuals, but I respect and support anyone that's going to go after that. But health wise, Yeah, I mean,

this quarantine is what you make of it. So I take up you know, take up new hobbies, do something new, try something new, make, no— try to find something online to make money off of like, maybe, maybe apply for a new job online like...

because everyone's remote you never know. I know Tik Tok is hiring. But I'm also I got to be one with nature I think like go outside and walk, look up,

you know, look around even though this virus is it has been this way, I think it's interesting how there's more people being active like there's more people at the parks

there's more people you know like i mean they're not supposed to be in the park but it's nice to see that everyone's at a park now. I think it's, it's interesting how what we kind of took for granted like running or, or going to the park

going to the beach or just like being with people socializing. Like I think it's interesting how this virus although we're social distancing has brought us together and it has really kind of made people look out for

each other in a way like, you know, stay at home Don't be, you know, selfish and buy up everything. Like I think it's interesting and also like small businesses that may be falling through the cracks right now it's interesting how there's a lot more people

pushing to support small businesses. So like don't go to Starbucks, maybe go to your like local coffee, you know, to go or curbside. I think it's like, I think it's interesting how that's happening.

It's like, nice to see. Yeah, I think that's a positive thing. So this is some very random question, but I think it's very practical. So when this quarantine ends,

what will be the first thing you do when you can go outside. we're going to go to Bellaire and eat Chinese food! Am I wrong? I'm being for real.

I mean, I have Vietnamese food here but like I want like, pho, you know, like sit down, and eat pho. Um, but that probably be my first thing to definitely do, as lame as that

sounds. Oh, it's very realistic I guarantee. I definitely miss the beach. I love the beach. It's almost my birthday, we want to go. The other day was actually my brother's graduation, he graduated from high school.

So I did this drive by graduation. So like, our loved ones got to like, drive by in their car and like congratulate him and stuff. It was really cool. But I'm definitely gonna go to Bellaire and eat, I'm going to go to the beach.

Um, I went to get a co working space membership, which is like a place where freelancers, and like small businesses go and like rent out like an office, but it's also like a shared space.

So I want to get one of those cuz. Yeah, also, I feel like when I get out of here, I'm just talking to everyone. Um, that's– that's what I'm gonna do the first

thing. Yeah. Oh I mean I should probably see my family too. I see, I see them. I feel like this quarantine has kind of brought me closer to them because I FaceTime them.

And then like, I live with them. I'm like shopping in the house from home. So, yeah, definitely the Chinese food or the Asian food. Definitely. Yeah.