00:00:00.009 - 00:00:24.909

And both joy. Sure. Ok. OK. So what was your childhood like in Taiwan? Um I can tell you from um personal perspective and a musical perspective. Personally, I love my childhood. I grew up in the town of Xin, um which is now the Silicon Valley of

00:00:24.920 - 00:00:46.709

Taiwan. Um It is one of the most technologically advanced areas in all of Asia. But in those days, it was a quiet university town about uh 60 70 miles south of Taipei. And uh my father was a physicist doing research and my mom was a high

00:00:46.720 - 00:01:04.610

school English teacher. So I grew up in a really, really peaceful environment in the uh housing uh compound of these research institute my father worked in um and it would, none of us were remotely rich or well off. I mean, we, we lived, my, my parents

00:01:04.620 - 00:01:24.440

tell me they lived off of uh government salary and in those days in 1960 61 et cetera, it was barely, you know, you barely get by even though they have both made an income. Um but my house was small, tiny II I bunked back to see

00:01:24.449 - 00:01:46.870

it. Uh It's a old Japanese built um wooden house and it was subdivided into two parts. Um And uh the interesting thing is um um the um the other half the house I remember shortly before we moved in, it was the Wang family and they had

00:01:46.879 - 00:02:06.690

just immigrated to the States. And uh uh I mean, wu the Wu family and as it turned out um 35 years later or so I bump into the former occupant of that house um in California at a conference and as it turned out it was, um

00:02:07.199 - 00:02:25.919

uh I, I hope I um Richard. No, um Richard, you probably will know he was the first Taiwanese born us congressman. Um And uh his name will come back to me in a second. Ok, I'll, I'll, I'll correct. I mean, I'll even Google it if, if

00:02:25.929 - 00:02:44.190

I, if I can um, before we leave. Um And sorry, my, my memory started drawing a blank on his name anyway. So, um I began to learn the violin when I was five. You know, those wooden houses have zero soundproofing so you can hear your neighbors

00:02:44.199 - 00:03:03.119

talk or cook and in this case, I could hear my neighbor, another boy my age learning the violin. So I thought, you know, this is so nice what was going on. So I would run to his house watching practice. Um and never got tired of it,

00:03:03.130 - 00:03:22.809

you know, for a five year old to have such sustained attention span was rather unusual or so thought my parents, um so they thought they should give me a toy violin so I could mimic my neighborhood buddies. And so that little cardboard carved violin was given

00:03:22.820 - 00:03:38.229

to me as a toy with fishing lines, as strings. And I was using a chopstick as um be to mimic my friend. And so that was my favorite toy, you know, back in the cause it was, you know, my trucks and cars and whatnot. But it

00:03:38.240 - 00:03:54.479

was this toy violin that was my favorite. So my, my parents thought, you know, look, maybe this kid really got something. So um one day my father went on a trip to Japan. I mean, this is Taiwan in the early days it was even hard to

00:03:54.490 - 00:04:10.309

find a violin. Um So my father had to find one in Tokyo on a business trip. He brought back a quarter size violin, which was slightly too big for me. But it was, you know, the nicest thing I ever got in ever. And I was so

00:04:10.320 - 00:04:24.179

thrilled. And so of course I asked if I can go and take lessons. So my parents said, yes, we find a local teacher for you and maybe we'll start you. And what they wanted to do is, you know, have this kid learn something about music, learning

00:04:24.190 - 00:04:40.760

about culture, learn something about arts and you grow up maybe to be a more decent person and maybe uh grow up to appreciate the fine things, finer things in life. Um You know, becoming a professional musician was certainly not at all in, in the forecast because

00:04:40.769 - 00:05:03.040

in Taiwan, um music career um was not an option in those days. It was too poor and everybody wanted to be an engineer or scientist. Um And uh um and it was, it was incredibly uh outside the, the thinking, you know, to become a musician. I

00:05:03.049 - 00:05:17.540

mean, no, everybody said, oh, you're not gonna um how are you gonna eat, you know, when I was a kid? And everybody said, yeah, you know, you're not gonna make a living, playing the violin or doing anything musical. But anyway, II, I persisted and Taiwan was

00:05:17.549 - 00:05:38.519

um musically not very active in those days. It was, you know, occasionally a violinist or a pianist might come through. It's kind of like China in the early eighties. It was a rarity, you know, and uh but unlike China, Taiwan was not a curiosity item, you

00:05:38.529 - 00:05:50.940

know, people want to go and see the great wall to see, you know, forbidden city. So they would gladly go to tour in China for nothing but in Taiwan there's nothing to see. So people, you know, the big shots wouldn't come to Taiwan in the, in

00:05:50.950 - 00:06:04.739

the sixties. So, and, and besides that, I lived in Xinzhou, which was so out of the way, you know, my, my parents would take me in a bus or in a train to uh watch a concert in Taipei and then take me back late at night.

00:06:04.869 - 00:06:21.109

I remember those trips very well. But, but anyway, my, my interest in music clearly was I in immense and very focused. So I kept at it and then gradually I got better. And then next thing I knew, um, I was beginning to win competitions and, and,

00:06:21.119 - 00:06:36.630

uh, at one of the competitions which I didn't win, uh, sitting in the back of the auditorium was a very famous teacher named Sylvia Lee. Um And she was uh uh probably the best teacher in Taiwan. Then we didn't, I mean, my parents didn't think that

00:06:36.640 - 00:06:51.579

I had any chance to study with someone so good, but apparently she liked my playing. She sensed something musical in my playing. So she said yes, when we asked if she could teach and she did this very brave thing where she would teach in Taipei and

00:06:51.589 - 00:07:06.269

she would dash on the train. The train were very slow in those days. Um and stop in Xinzhou to teach me. My mom will go to Tai uh the train station in a little scooter to pick her up and take her back to my place to

00:07:06.279 - 00:07:21.149

have a lesson. And then after the lesson, she will be driven back in my mom's scooter again to hop on a train to continue south to her home. So she was living this incredible commute commuter's life. And uh but she believed in me. So, you know,

00:07:21.160 - 00:07:36.429

that made me work even harder because here is this very famous teacher, you know, willing to make these stops and sacrifices to uh to help me. So, so at least I was not that stupid in, in thinking that I deserved it. II I felt like I

00:07:36.440 - 00:07:52.940

had to earn it, you know, so I worked very hard. And then I think at the age 11, I won the national competition in Taiwan. And, um, my teacher pretty much said, well, ok, you've done all you can right now. It's time for you to go

00:07:52.950 - 00:08:15.250

overseas because I think your talent warrants that. Um, and, um, and I thought maybe I should, you know, but unfortunately, at that very difficult decision making juncture, my father died from cancer. And so suddenly I was left alone with my mom. I, I'm the only child.

00:08:15.260 - 00:08:36.510

So what I'm gonna do, you know, but then my mom said, no, you're gonna continue overseas. You must continue your violent studies. And uh so in 1972 age 12, I packed up and went to Sydney and um and Sydney was not exactly my primary choice. New

00:08:36.520 - 00:08:57.559

York really was my, you know, top goal, but Sydney offered a wonderful um interim opportunity because, and Taiwan was still under martial law in those days. It was really tough. I mean, you know, they, they, they were um um imprisoning a lot of, you know, political

00:08:57.570 - 00:09:14.690

dissidents, opposition people. Um you know, anyone who dared to question the regime of Chiang Kai Shek, you know, would disappear. Um And it was very scary. So, you know, we were told not even to utter anything. You know, I would go to Japan for instance, for

00:09:14.700 - 00:09:27.840

my very first concert trip. You know, I would see all this propaganda by the communists, you know, saying, you know Kai Shek is a thug and everything, you know, and I'll come back and I'll say mom, you know, you won't believe what I saw in Tokyo.

00:09:27.849 - 00:09:43.359

This poster said, you know, President Jiang is a thug. And my mom will say, don't ever say that in school, don't ever say that anywhere, just, just don't repeat it again, you know, we're getting into big trouble. So th and those were the days, you know,

00:09:43.820 - 00:10:01.400

so I had to try to get out of Taiwan um with uh exit permit in order to obtain a passport. And so the only way I could get up such a, a permit is to um do a like like an audition, um a competition, in fact,

00:10:01.409 - 00:10:15.390

to win a spot to be to be allowed to go overseas. So I had to do that lots of bureaucracy in those days to get through that. You know, my mom was incredibly uh persistent and, and really um nailed it as it turned out. That was

00:10:15.400 - 00:10:33.739

the last um year that the Taiwan government ever held such a competition. So I got out just in time and Australia um Sydney is where my uncle lives so I could have a place to, to, to stay, you know, found someone to look after me because

00:10:33.750 - 00:10:53.320

my mom couldn't get an Australian visa right away. And Australia, that's another matter because Australia had this terrible racist uh policy. It was called Australia, you know, so they welcome European immigrants but almost no Asian immigrants back in the, you know, late sixties, seventies. And uh

00:10:53.330 - 00:11:07.940

and, and so yeah, now, you know, Australia is like they, they like to call themselves part of Asia. You know, it's, they've come a long way but in those days, you know, being a Taiwanese citizen, uh it, it was tough to travel anywhere but it was

00:11:07.950 - 00:11:25.840

particularly hard to go to Australia. So my mom waited a half a year before joining me. So those were very trying but very exciting days. I have to say I learned a lot from that process. So what was life like when you got to Sydney? Oh,

00:11:25.849 - 00:11:45.369

I love Sydney. Um Sydney was everything that Taiwan wasn't. It was, it was well off, it was sunny, it was when it was beautiful, the streets were wide, lots of cars, you know, Taiwan didn't have so many cars in those days. Public transportation was awesome. I

00:11:45.380 - 00:12:02.340

could ride in new buses and even got on a commuter train. That was so much faster than the Taiwanese train. I was loving it, you know, I went to this wonderful high school attached to the Sydney Conservatory of Music, by the way, Sydney Conservator, um, is

00:12:02.349 - 00:12:15.530

really weird, you know, because usually it's Conservatory. Right. But somehow they decided to make a Latin name out of it. So, it's, uh, to this day I think it's still called the Sydney Conservatory of Music. I don't get it. But anyway, they had a wonderful little

00:12:15.539 - 00:12:29.200

high school attached to it. And, uh, I didn't speak much English. My, my mom taught me English at home, but to make it as a full time English speaker was a different matter, you know, but I was young enough and, uh, I, I was willing to

00:12:29.210 - 00:12:46.179

try, I was very eager to learn to speak and to befriend all my new, um, Australian classmates, schoolmates. And I remember one day I was, you know, very new. I was probably in school for maybe three or four weeks. Um, and a classmate asked me, would

00:12:46.190 - 00:12:59.909

you like to, can you play something for us? We don't know who you are and I could, you know, really not speak and people didn't know. So I, I took my violin out. I obligingly started playing. Next thing I knew like the entire high school had

00:12:59.919 - 00:13:13.919

congregated because they had heard the music through down the corridor and it was a free, you know, uh class period. So everybody just crowded into the room and when I was, I was done playing, you know, they were like 100 kids stuffed in that room. They

00:13:13.929 - 00:13:30.280

all burst into applause. Go, yeah. And so I felt like for the first time I was accepted into their class, you know, and, and I had to, it's, I didn't think about it in those days. But, um, but I was also the, the only Asian kid

00:13:30.289 - 00:13:45.320

in the entire school and in the opera school, the, in the, in the college part of the Conservatory and there was only one Japanese and one Korean student and that was it. And so, you know, I was a bit of a curiosity, I think for a

00:13:45.330 - 00:14:00.780

lot of the students and now you go into the Sydney column as we call it, um, you know, half the student body is Asian, like you would see at the Juilliard or Curtis, you know, at the top schools. So that's the norm now. But in, you

00:14:00.789 - 00:14:17.940

know, in my days, I was kind of like a pioneer if you want to call it that. Yeah, but Sydney was great, you know, I, I didn't find, you know, even though the government policy was um very, you know, anti Asian, but the, the Australian people

00:14:17.950 - 00:14:36.270

were not, you know, I, I found that the Aussies, very friendly, very warm and uh I certainly made friends easily among my age group. Um And, and I had, you know, fantastic teachers uh on violin. Um and I had great chairman music teacher and I, I

00:14:36.280 - 00:14:59.880

really loved it. But what set my eyes and, or my gaze even further and higher was the fact that unlike Taiwan, Australia could afford top decisions to come. So, you know, in 1973 when I was 13, Perlman came to play his very first and only Australian

00:14:59.890 - 00:15:19.479

tour and I just never heard anything like that, like kind of violent playing except on recordings and, and I was so mesmerized by Mr Perlman's playing. Um I, I talked my way into playing for him in a master class in my school. I was officially way

00:15:19.489 - 00:15:34.960

too young to be qualified, you know, to be selected, you know, because they were asking him basically only like, I don't know, 16 and up, you know, what they would consider more advanced players. But II, I don't know, II, I was pretty clever, I guess I

00:15:34.969 - 00:15:50.919

convinced my teachers that they should select me too. So anyway, I got to play for Perlman and, and, and he began to talk about his student days at the Juilliard and his studies with the two great violin teachers, Ivan Gala and Dorothy Delay. And so I

00:15:50.929 - 00:16:07.320

began to know, you know, firsthand about these two wonderful teachers and Dorothy Delay was a new name to me, but it was very evident that Perlman held her in great, great esteem. And also he, I think he had a great deal of affection for this teacher

00:16:07.489 - 00:16:23.789

more so than what than what he showed for Gala, even though Gala was the more famous teacher than so I thought, ok, if Perlman loves this lady named Dorothy Delay, and she taught him how to play the violin like that, I gotta go, I need to

00:16:23.799 - 00:16:43.460

go and, and work with this person, but you know, easier said than done. So it was 1975 2 years later when I finally, you know, summoned enough courage. And also I, I find him playing advanced to a level where my teacher in Australia thought I could

00:16:43.469 - 00:17:00.369

get into the Juilliard and maybe had a chance with Mr Lay's class. Um But before I left, I remember Leonard Bernstein came with a neuro philharmonic as well, you know, and I, I upon hearing them, I, he just absolutely reaffirmed my notion that I had to

00:17:00.380 - 00:17:16.038

be in New York. You know, Sydney is an incredibly comfortable place. Australia, very comfortable, very cozy and I knew I could make a pretty good career playing there and perhaps teaching there one day. Um And a lot of my teachers didn't want me to go. They

00:17:16.048 - 00:17:32.529

thought, well, you know, stay here, isn't it wonderful here? Weather is great. You know, you make a good living housing is not so expensive. Um No, I said II, I need to go thank you everybody. You know. So to this day, II, I love um my,

00:17:32.538 - 00:17:47.410

my Sydney home. Well, I made so many friends and uh I remain, you know, in touch with them very closely to this day. But New York, you know, was this incredible beacon that just, you know, I was the moth, you know, that I had to fly

00:17:47.420 - 00:18:01.280

towards the beacon or the light of the fire, whatever it is. And, and, and I finally did it. And man, I, I, that was, that changed my life. That was as it turned out a very wise move. So I'm curious as to what a normal class

00:18:01.290 - 00:18:22.660

day would be like at the Sydney Conservator. Ok. It was, um, we had to wear uniform. Uh, all public school had to wear this, you know, British style flannel gray pants and, uh, and quite shirt with a tie, uh, yellow and gray stripe, uh, tie. And,

00:18:22.670 - 00:18:41.530

um, so I would try to bring my violin with me classes begin like at 8 30 or something and, and I'll, I'll go through all the normal, um, you know, what would be a British system of schools, you know, of course, Australian history, British history, um,

00:18:41.540 - 00:18:58.800

sometimes world history plus, you know, languages, science, et cetera, math, uh, just like a normal high school. And then at about three o'clock or so when school got out or even four o'clock, and then I will begin either my own practicing, I'll try to find a

00:18:58.810 - 00:19:18.939

room to, to practice or I would go and take a lesson from my violin teacher. And sometimes, um, I think three times a week, we will have German music rehearsals, uh, after school and we'll get coached. Um, and, um, what was fun is that, you know,

00:19:19.030 - 00:19:31.420

when I was younger, my, my uncle, you know, who was looking after me, wanted me to go home before dark, you know, so I, but after I grew up a little bit and got used to it, I could speak the language. I knew my way around

00:19:31.430 - 00:19:46.500

Sydney. I love hanging out with the older kids, you know, um you know, 13 year old, 14 year old hang out with, you know, 16, you know, like high school seniors and juniors and, and not to do anything crazy. But they would lead me to the

00:19:46.510 - 00:20:03.099

library, the school library and, and, and have me listen to recordings. They loved, you know, I would, you know, they introduced me to Chicago Symphony, London Symphony and they're, you know, incredible performances and we will all go in Google Gaga and then I in turn, I'll

00:20:03.109 - 00:20:18.079

play them my favorite violin recordings of, you know, he and Isaac Stern and people like that and they will go, wow, you know, that's just incredible. So it, it became sort of this ongoing thing where I was getting more and more training in a way from

00:20:18.089 - 00:20:34.920

not being in a classroom, but just from actively being engaged with other players listening and um playing on stage with them. So, so that, that's when I also learned how to be very proactive, you know, not waiting at all for my teacher to instruct me what

00:20:34.930 - 00:20:50.739

to do. But I took it upon myself to, to initiate, you know, learning a new piece to, to go to a music camp or to, uh, uh play, play a new work, uh a new chamber work or even, you know, I would go and sub, you

00:20:50.750 - 00:21:04.949

know, I was dirt poor, you know, I really imagine, you know, my mom was down to a single salary earning in Taiwanese dollars, which was already very hard to convert into foreign currency and she was not earning a whole lot. So I realized that, you know,

00:21:04.959 - 00:21:16.689

I had no money. So, of course, after a year or so, people begin to hear that, hey, you know, there's a talented Taiwanese kid here, you know, who can play, really can play. So I would get some gigs from time to time, you know, playing in

00:21:16.699 - 00:21:31.170

an opera or play in, in a, in a substitute in orchestra. And then eventually I was actually asked to play a concerto solo with one or two, you know, smaller orchestras around town. And I was, I was so pleased with that, you know, I actually made

00:21:31.180 - 00:21:46.829

like $100 you know, $50 and then I would open the bank account and I would put the money in and then I would take the money out not to eat or anything but to buy recordings that was my favorite thing. I bought record after record in

00:21:46.839 - 00:22:00.119

those days, the LP S and I would listen to them day and night. You know, I just, that was my passion. Um, so to this day, you know, if you come to my, if you, if we were doing this chat in my studio, you see wall

00:22:00.130 - 00:22:19.439

to wall CD. Si mean, that's what I have, you know, this, this childhood habit of mine has not stopped. Cool. So can you kind of tell us um your experience in New York after you moved from Australia? Um New York was simply like, let's say Taiwan

00:22:19.449 - 00:22:39.640

was uh beautiful. Pristine had a lot of personal warmth but poor Australia was clean, new, vibrant and, you know, friendly welcoming. Sydney was like the, you know, the energize of bunny, you know, this just wouldn't stop. And, and it was the most exciting thing ever in

00:22:39.650 - 00:22:59.150

my life. I, I remember, you know, I, I had arrived, I was taken in by a wonderful American family, Porter and Susan mckeever. Um And they want, I need to audition for the Juilliard first, so nothing was gonna get in the way. So one day Porter

00:22:59.550 - 00:23:12.119

said, I'll take you into New York and show you around. So we drove and he pointed out that's the Juilliard. I went, oh wow, that's the Juilliard. And then he said, that's Lincoln Center right next to the Juilliard. I said, wow, I didn't know they were

00:23:12.130 - 00:23:23.550

right next to each other. That is so cool. That's Lincoln Center. That's where the New York played. I just heard them four months ago with the new, with, with Leonard Bernstein. I said this is where they are, you know, like, you know, you're suddenly visiting these,

00:23:23.560 - 00:23:38.920

you know, like suddenly being the Sistine Chapel, you know, and then we swamped by Carnegie Hall and then I thought, wow, Carnegie, you know. So anyway, I was like, you know, in, in, in, in, in, in, in heaven. Um So, but I had to go through

00:23:38.930 - 00:24:03.540

the hurd of audition first Julia auditions very much like rice. Uh Only 10 minutes each. And I had to show my best stuff. So, um after I played the Dean of the Juilliard called and said, well, I, I gather you wish to study with Dorothy Delay.

00:24:03.630 - 00:24:18.150

But I just wanna tell you that she may not accept you. So you should think about a second choice teacher. And I was, you know, I thought that meant I didn't get in. Um and, and, and I was so this, you know, pointed, I thought maybe

00:24:18.160 - 00:24:36.209

I, oh, you know, this long trip from Sydney's wasted. I'm not gonna get to study with this delay. Anyway, another week came back, went by and I was officially notified that Dorothy delay had taken me in. And I thought, yes, I was so happy and elated.

00:24:36.400 - 00:24:54.380

And then of course, I, I realized then only then this was back in, um, right after Labor Day, um, that I had to find a high school because Juilliard, you know, for a 15 year old only offered classes and lessons on Saturdays Monday through Friday. I

00:24:54.390 - 00:25:11.569

had to find a school. So, um, my incredible family, the mckeever made queries with at Juilliard. And they said, well, you know, it's a boarding school up in Connecticut that has several Juilliard pre-college students. And maybe you can go to a boarding school, you can study,

00:25:11.579 - 00:25:26.630

you know, really immerse yourself in, in, in sort of, you know, American life. And then come on Saturdays to take lessons. So I went to this school called the Gunnery. Um, it sounds like a military school. I went to boarding school in Massachusetts. So, you know,

00:25:26.640 - 00:25:41.479

the, you know, the gun. Ok. Yeah. And, and they had a sister school called Wickham Rice. Um, and so that was all girls and gunnery. It was all boys. Um, I think it was named after somebody named William Gunn or something gun. So it was called

00:25:41.489 - 00:25:57.489

the Gunnery. And I always thought, you know, people ask me, oh, that must be a military academy. I said, are you kidding? I'm playing the violin. You go to a military academy. Um, anyway, so I really got to know American life, you know, I had, you

00:25:57.500 - 00:26:14.319

know, dor maids and school mates, you know, I really, everybody was really interesting, you know, and, and, um, yeah, even like moving into the dorm as a 15 year old. I remember my next door guy was fellow named Darrell. He came out, he goes, hey, welcome,

00:26:14.329 - 00:26:30.979

man. I said, man, oh, wow. Australians don't say that. You know, they don't say, man, you know, you see that in movies, you know? I go, wow. I must be in America. Yeah, great. I say, man, you know, and he asked me, uh, you ever smoked

00:26:30.989 - 00:26:49.089

dope? I said, what would you like? Some? I said, I don't even know what you're talking about. He said, oh, never mind. Yeah, I probably thought, you know what a square guy from Australia to Taiwan, you know, let, let, let's leave him alone. And, and so

00:26:49.099 - 00:27:04.310

anyway, um II I commuted, you know, uh Saturdays too for my lessons to, to New York. But what I found really frustrating is that, you know, in the library, I will read the Sunday New York Times and I'll see the arts and leisure section with all

00:27:04.319 - 00:27:21.500

these listings of incredible concerts, you know, one after other great artists, great orchestras visiting. But I couldn't go there because I, you know, couldn't drive and I, I didn't have ways to go from, you know, Middle Washington, Connecticut down to New York City on my own.

00:27:21.780 - 00:27:38.630

So I, I spoke to, you know, eventually my, uh my, my, my American family and said I would like to be in New York more. I, I think I should go to these concerts if I can. And so the next school year I transferred not to,

00:27:38.640 - 00:28:02.869

I got into another private school in Manhattan. And I also got put up and uh another wonderful American family, um the Oaks Family Oakes, John and Marjorie Oaks. And John Oaks is one of the um um patriarchs of the New York Times, uh Salzburg family, he

00:28:02.880 - 00:28:20.900

was the editorial uh managing editor of the editorial page for the New York Times. So I moved into this incredibly posh Fifth Avenue apartment and um didn't know what to do with this huge apartment. You know, it was enormous, beautiful. And the Oaks family still lives

00:28:20.910 - 00:28:33.650

in there to this day. But, but didn't matter, you know, because I was in Manhattan, I could go to any concerts I want to have songs I could afford or if I could get sneak in, you know, I found a great way to sneak into Carnegie

00:28:33.660 - 00:28:45.729

Hall. I couldn't sneak into a Fisher Hall, Lincoln Center, but I could Carnegie Hall because it was old and they had all sorts of like back doors that you can, you know, it occasionally, you know, would be left a jar. You just go and have a

00:28:45.739 - 00:29:02.469

look, you open and there you go, you know, got to hear the Berlin Philharmonic Chicago Symphony, you know, all these things and uh virtually for free. Uh But that's when I made the most progress because I was very impressed and by what I saw and, and

00:29:02.479 - 00:29:18.420

that in turn inspired me, I worked really hard, you know, I felt like I was in the heart of music making, you know, I was also at the Juilliard more so I could mingle with more of my older schoolmates, you know, so that's when I really

00:29:18.430 - 00:29:32.709

felt like I belonged. And that was the most exciting year in my life. It was really exciting, you know, I was still 16 then. So, you know, I was still a little kid. Um, but, but then, you know, then it's the next year when I was

00:29:32.719 - 00:29:50.729

17 in 1977 when things start to turn better and better for me because I begin to, you know, to, to get, uh, I would play an audition for a conductor or a manager and they would engage me right away to play and I won a competition

00:29:50.760 - 00:30:08.709

in Madrid Spain and that launched something in, you know, a real concert tour began, I made a recording and so suddenly, you know, next thing I knew, you know, as a college freshman there, I was, you know, already kind of with my foot in the door

00:30:08.719 - 00:30:24.939

of a real concert career. And, and, uh, in those days, you know, I was too, what's the word? Too thrilled just to be on that ride? I didn't think about, you know, how hard it is to actually have gotten there. But now I'm a teacher, I

00:30:24.949 - 00:30:41.439

advise my students about career moves and this and that, that's when I realized it is incredibly hard to get a start. You know, and there I was, you know, in the mid, in the midst of it, um just being totally elated, I wasn't even nervous, you

00:30:41.449 - 00:30:58.329

know, I practiced hard. I, I really worked hard. II I absorbed a lot of information, but I didn't think that, you know, I'm going on stage to play at Carnegie Hall and therefore I should be intimidated. No, instead I was incredibly excited. You know, I felt

00:30:58.369 - 00:31:13.790

like, ok, I might not be Isaac Stern. I might not be Zac Perlman. That's fine. But here's my chance, I'm gonna enjoy it. You know, it was one of those, maybe I was just too dumb to realize how much it was a stake and how was

00:31:13.800 - 00:31:33.949

study with Miss Dorothy Delay. Was it everything that per Oh, she was? Well, I, I just tell you something very funny because Dorothy Delay, according to Perlman, you know, back in 1973 always addressed her students as Sugar plum or sweetie. You know, I mean, these terms

00:31:33.959 - 00:31:47.030

of endearment, you know, you hear maybe in a Wizard of Oz or I don't know what, you know, leave it to Beaver, you know, one of those old TV shows. But, you know, I said there's no way because, you know, my teachers up to that point

00:31:47.040 - 00:32:03.630

had been pretty serious, you know, very, you know, dignified people. And I said, who, who's going around telling, calling her students sweetie, you know. So anyway, so I went to for my first lesson with Mr and then I walked in her studio, there was this huge

00:32:03.640 - 00:32:23.369

portrait of Perlman in performance and I said, oh man, that's intimidating. And uh but Mr de la turned out to be the nicest lady, you know, she, she's very maternal, she really wanted to get to know me, you know, takes time. But it, it, she wanted

00:32:23.380 - 00:32:38.599

to know me as a person, you know, to find out what my family was like and to know what my cultural outlook is, you know, what my work ethics are. And at no time did she say? Well, why don't you play like Perlman? You know, there

00:32:38.609 - 00:32:54.369

was nothing like that and she just worked with each student on his or her terms. Um But Sweetie and Sugar Plum didn't appear for about a year. So I was waiting for that and I was, of course, I felt like, you know, I earned my first

00:32:54.380 - 00:33:20.069

badge of honor when she called me sweetie one day and the sugar and sugar plump came soon thereafter. Um Anyway, I, I genuinely um like Perlman um adored and loved her as a person. She, she was very caring. She's from Medicine Lodge, Kansas and people say

00:33:21.550 - 00:33:45.859

because of her upbringing on the prairies, she um has this incredibly optimistic or perhaps American outlook, you know, for her, everything was possible. Even the worst student could improve eventually given the right instruction. So she was this optimist and she radiates that and I think it

00:33:45.869 - 00:34:03.959

rubs off on her students. And so, you know, I, I thought maybe I would be at the bottom of the heap at the Juilliard. I thought everybody at Juilliard play like Perlman. But she, you know, quickly boosted my confidence. She got to work very solidly. And,

00:34:03.969 - 00:34:19.979

um, and the next thing I knew I was playing better and better and she not only became um, like violin teacher, but eventually she was like my shrink, like, you know, I would play a concert and she would analyze what I did or, you know, should

00:34:19.989 - 00:34:36.129

have done for me. And then I would actively engage her in a discussion about what can make my playing better, you know, or what are the moves that I should make in a career decision, you know, environment. What kind of pieces should I play as a

00:34:36.139 - 00:34:56.429

20 year old or as a 24 year old? What's good and what's trendy, all those things. She's a very astute observer of those things. Um And, um, and I think, I, I mean, I remained very close to her until her death. Um and she um always

00:34:56.439 - 00:35:13.010

came to concerts. She would even drive. I remember she drove from Nyack New York to Hartford and she came to Boston. Um She came to Minneapolis to hear some of my most important debuts, you know, for her, nothing stopped, nothing got in the way. And so

00:35:13.020 - 00:35:29.459

II I admire her devotion. You know, I thought my teacher in Taiwan, you know, taking the train ride stopping in X to hear me was, you know, another very devoted teacher and here's another one. And so, you know, with Dorothy delay teaching was her entire life.

00:35:29.669 - 00:35:44.560

You know, right now I'm a teacher, but I also perform. So there's another set of obligations for me. But for Dorothy delay, her students were her life and she loved us, you know, sometimes it was tough love, but she never yelled at us, she never raised

00:35:44.570 - 00:36:04.560

her voice and I think she really learned how to cajole a student into being an overachiever, you know, not with fear or intimidation, but with genuine encouragement and affection. That's hard. I mean, I'm sure you've seen teachers, you know, who are less impatient, you know, or

00:36:04.570 - 00:36:19.810

some of them are. But, you know, but you have to have infinite patience to, to bring up a student with just pure love. It's really hard. So during this time, like, um when you were at Sydney or um in New York, did you also like to

00:36:19.820 - 00:36:34.399

go back to Taiwan to perform? I didn't, um I'll tell you a couple of very interesting stories about it. Um Number one, after I left, uh, when I was in Sydney, I never went back because my mom was with me. There was no need for me

00:36:34.409 - 00:36:49.010

to go back. My whole family was right there. And after I left uh Sydney to go to New York, I think I had saved enough money for Christmas trip to Sydney to visit my mom. And that was it. And there was no need for me to

00:36:49.020 - 00:37:04.199

go to Taiwan. But at age 19, after I've had some success playing overseas, Taiwan invited me to go back for a formal concert tour. And my mom met me there. But it was, you know, a rare rare thing II, I didn't see my mom for a

00:37:04.209 - 00:37:19.969

long time and, and I got off the plane and there was like two TV station, film crews ready to interview me. You know, I was just got on the plane and then suddenly I had to speak Chinese and I couldn't, I remember I was stuttering my

00:37:19.979 - 00:37:35.530

way because I had not really spoken Chinese for four years. And, and I was so embarrassed, II, I thought this is just terrible and I, my Chinese had deteriorated and I, you know, my answers were half mixed with English. It was all Chinglish, you know, and

00:37:35.540 - 00:37:52.629

it was terrible. So I made a, a resolution that day that I'm gonna, you know, improve my Chinese over again. And so II, I finally went back to Taiwan and I was, you know, very much welcome. You know, that's when I think my wife actually heard

00:37:52.639 - 00:38:13.219

me play, you know, as a high school, middle school kid. Um And so I think I caught on with Taiwan. But the thing is, um I um I regarded the US as really my home in those days. I I wasn't particularly proud of Taiwan because number

00:38:13.229 - 00:38:30.969

one martial law was still in effect. Number two, Taiwan was beginning to improve its economic but not quite like what they call what, what they call the, the the little dragons of Asia, right? That's terminology, you know, they describe Korea, Singapore, Hong Kong, Taiwan, you know,

00:38:30.979 - 00:38:48.439

the big dragon was China and then the little dragons, but Taiwan wasn't quite a little dragon, maybe he wasn't even, you know, maybe just a little earthworm in those days. So I was much more of, you know, I, I associated myself much more as an American.

00:38:49.189 - 00:39:09.500

Um And um and I will, I, I was um really, I, I began to go back to Taiwan, you know, once every two years or so to perform. And, and in 1983 I'll fast forward a little bit to uh 83. I was invited by the New

00:39:09.510 - 00:39:27.020

York Philharmonic to go to tour in Taiwan and Hong Kong. Now, here's the orchestra that, you know, I had witnessed when I was 15 in a Sydney. And what an honor, you know, to be invited to be their guest soloist and me was to be the

00:39:27.030 - 00:39:48.889

conductor and the concerts were sold out in two hours and had never gone to Taiwan. You know, so it was a huge deal and I was, you know, so proud to be that soloist and much to my horror upon my arrival. Um you know, the concerts

00:39:48.899 - 00:40:05.709

had gone really well and the next stop was to be Hong Kong. The Taiwanese government would not issue me my exit permit. I had a passport, but you still need an exit permit to get a stamp, you know, exit permit at the airport that you can

00:40:05.719 - 00:40:29.500

you know go to the boarding gate. And um the the the short version of the story is that there was some false reports by Taiwanese embassies overseas that I have been hanging out with the mainland Chinese embassy people playing for ambassadors, you know from Beijing. Um

00:40:29.830 - 00:40:48.439

and I was a very left leaning person. Of course, there was no truth to any of that. I didn't even know any mainland Chinese um uh embassy people. I had gone to China to tour as a groundbreaking artist in 1981. That was the very first, that

00:40:48.449 - 00:41:07.610

was a very big deal between Taiwan and China. But that was under an official invitation from the Beijing Ministry of Culture. Uh and the Taiwanese government knew perfectly well about it. I told them about what's gonna happen but they have a exit permit denied because of

00:41:07.620 - 00:41:25.419

these false rumors really, really ticked me off and only because I had an interview on the day of departure. Uh with a journalist, I told her about this difficulty I was having, I was on the phone calling the newer Philharmonic staff in Hong Kong telling them

00:41:25.429 - 00:41:40.139

I might not make it to the Hong Kong concert. They told me not to panic. Don't worry, you know, we'll wait for you. If you can't show up, we'll have someone else. You know, we, we play something else instead. Don't worry. The journalist upon hearing this

00:41:40.330 - 00:41:53.189

said, wait a second. My dad is a three star general in the army. Let me call him and see what I can do. So she called my from my hotel phone. He said, you know, dad, I'm here with, you know, and, and he's having trouble. Can

00:41:53.199 - 00:42:09.459

you look into this something wrong with this? You know, because it was from the garrison command that issue these permits and that was garrison command was the, the, the, the, the martial law enforcer. So an hour later the phone call came back, her father had pulled

00:42:09.469 - 00:42:24.530

some strings and the garrison command relented and gave me a uh a exit permit. I had 2.5 hours to make my flight. So I packed my bags up really quickly thanked the journalist profusely rushed to the airport, made my flight to Hong Kong. But I was

00:42:24.540 - 00:42:46.879

so angry at Taiwan for being such and just such a backward, you know, close minded country. I told everyone who could, who listened to me that I'm not going back to Taiwan again until I have a US passport. And that's what I did. I didn't go

00:42:46.889 - 00:43:01.739

back to Taiwan for five years and I only went back probably holding my American passport and say here stamp this one. I'm, you know, II I didn't go, I didn't go with my Taiwanese passport. I, I nearly threw it away but I, I put it in

00:43:01.750 - 00:43:19.479

my drawer, which is a good thing because at least that retains my ID in Taiwan, which came in handy later. Um So anyway, so that was a very ugly chapter in Taiwan's history. But I think soon thereafter, Taiwan, you know, started to pick up its economic

00:43:19.489 - 00:43:41.399

progress and soon after martial law was disbanded and you know, free election, open election, free press. It was really in place, you know, in 1994 95 the first presidential election was held. I was so proud that I went back and played for the inauguration. And but

00:43:41.409 - 00:44:00.360

then that in turn got me into trouble with Beijing so he can win. Yo Yo Ma and I were on the black list for China for, for about two years. We were not allowed to tour China. I played for the um that the inauguration. Yoyo played

00:44:00.370 - 00:44:17.270

in the soundtrack of seven years in Tibet. And of course, you know, Tibet is a taboo subject for the Beijing government. So even this fiction movie with Brad Pitt was not allowed, it was never aired. Disney got into a lot of trouble, you know, Chinese government

00:44:17.280 - 00:44:35.290

refused to distribute Disney movies for like a year or so in China and Yoyo was banned from entering uh China. And so, you know, you, you get 11 part of, you know, like Taiwan, you know, into better, better shape and then the other part like starts

00:44:35.300 - 00:44:51.129

to go, you know, a little bit narrowly, you know, so you don't know what to do. We can't win. Mhm. Um, ok. Well, so I'm curious, so you mentioned that your wife had seen and she also told us as well. She said that you were like

00:44:51.139 - 00:45:08.340

the, what, what did she say? One direction, one direction of Taiwan? And that all her classmates had crushes on you and all of this, her best friend called Dabs. So she can, oh, wow. So I'm curious to know, like, when did you guys meet kind of

00:45:08.350 - 00:45:25.689

your side of the story? How we met? Oh, yeah. Yeah. Well, I, of course, I didn't know she was in the audience when I was, you know, a 19 or 21 year old performing in Taiwan. Um, however, um, yeah, it was really interesting because, um, in

00:45:25.699 - 00:45:46.860

1993 I went to Atlanta for a recital and, you know, as you can imagine the pianist who plays with me always needs a page turner and that the first page turner had gotten ill that day and she was my wife, Deborah's friend and Debbie has had

00:45:46.870 - 00:46:02.129

played the piano and study piano. So the Page Turner asked her to step in for her to sub for, for this page turning duty. And of course, page turning is a very, that's a terrible job because you don't notice the patron until he or she screws

00:46:02.139 - 00:46:15.770

up. And then, you know, everybody suddenly turns the gaze to the page Turner. It's so embarrassing, you know, and the musicians get really angry at the page turner. But if it all goes well, we barely say a thank you to a page turner. But so Debbie

00:46:15.780 - 00:46:31.090

wanted to do a good job. So she came to our dress rehearsal and I took one look at her and said, oh, wow, this is great. What a nice person, beautiful gal. So we started chatting, you know, between the rehearsal and the concert. And so we,

00:46:31.739 - 00:46:45.169

um, we, we, I think hit it off, ok, you know, that first time. And, um, and she asked for a photo to be taken with me. I even put my armor on her. I don't know what got into me, but clearly something was not quite normal.

00:46:45.429 - 00:47:01.360

And, uh, so I, um wanted to, um, ask for her phone number but being, you know, Asian Chinese, whatever, you know, not so appropriate to ask, hey, what's your number? You know, and they can in those days, you know, pre iphone you're just like yo girl,

00:47:01.370 - 00:47:15.179

here's your number. You know, you, you communicate really quickly. So at the end of the reception, I waved goodbye to her. And then I, I went back to the hotel with my pianist and I said, oh man, you know, Deborah, she's a lovely girl. And then

00:47:15.189 - 00:47:30.729

I love to, you know, ask her out. Um but I don't have her phone number. And suddenly he said, oh, you want her number? I have it. She gave it to me. So you pull out a piece of paper from his pocket says here you can

00:47:30.739 - 00:47:46.860

have it. So I said, ok, I think, I think maybe that's a very smart lady after all, you know, she didn't want to be too obvious in giving me her phone number. She gave it to my pianist instead. And if I was truly interested, I'll probably

00:47:46.870 - 00:48:06.169

mention her name. And then so I said very, very smart gal, you know. So anyway, I called her and we chatted for an hour and, and so I thought this was very exciting. You know, I heard that you had a headache. So you called her and

00:48:06.179 - 00:48:25.979

she treated you with meningitis. Well, see, this is still a point of contention to this day. I insist and my daughter agrees with me that Debbie's sense of humor is sometimes really lacking. And I called her, you know, I was using, I don't know if you

00:48:25.989 - 00:48:41.870

watch Monty Python Clips one of the favorite, you know, was this, uh, John Cleese character with, you know, looks really dumb and he'll have a handkerchief turn twirled around four in the head and he'll come into a room, you know, he's a doctor. Uh, my brain

00:48:41.879 - 00:49:02.449

hurts. So I thought I'll break the ice by saying, you know, since Debbie is a doctor. So I said, hey, doctor, my brain hurts and of course she didn't get it. She says, oh, you probably have meningitis. I know, ok. Whoops. That's either starting on the

00:49:02.459 - 00:49:18.209

wrong foot or maybe she, it's better that she knows that I have a really warped mind to start with. Maybe that's good. But needless to say, we, we, we, we still spoke for over an hour. So, so that probably was ok. And how was the dinner

00:49:18.219 - 00:49:34.370

that night? Oh, we didn't. Well, we, we said, I think it was like 2030 people all big, big, you know, dinner. And I think she was sitting like, where you are and my pianist was here and that was fine. But there were so many people around,

00:49:34.379 - 00:49:48.340

you know, and so I wanted to talk to her because I was really trying to zero in. But I, I couldn't, I mean, that was part of the frustration because I wanted to, to have more, you know, like quiet and chats but impossible. So, and suddenly,

00:49:48.350 - 00:49:59.770

you know, you know how Chinese banquets all break up very quickly. Everybody suddenly just stands up good night. You know, they like, you know, it's not like the American, you know, you stand around, you know, shake hands and you do that. Everybody like bolts for the

00:49:59.780 - 00:50:16.020

door and Debbie, you know, also got the advice. She went bye and, you know, so I, I never really talked to her until we spoke on the phone. That's right. Yeah, it was an awesome story because she said that, um, eventually told her that you liked

00:50:16.030 - 00:50:29.939

her for her appetite she had. Oh, yeah. Yeah. That's right. Because, you know, at that time in my life, you know, I had like, you know, taken, um, girls out and then, you know, the, my most hated lines. Oh, no. No, I just gonna have a

00:50:29.949 - 00:50:42.760

salad. I'm on a diet. I always thought this is like the worst kind. I don't. Ok. You know, I almost like, want to, want to get out on the table. I said pie. Good night. You know, I, I'm interested in you. If you are on diet

00:50:42.770 - 00:50:55.550

you're having a salad. Come on. You know. So, watching, you know, they'd be eating with, you know, and, and obviously with hearty appetite, I thought this is good. This bodes well, if I want to spend a lot of time, including the rest of my life with

00:50:55.560 - 00:51:21.929

somebody I don't want to be starving. Yeah. I think that's fair, I think. Yeah, that's, you know, I love food and why should I suffer, you know, I have the feeling she have the salad. Yeah. Ok. So you guys met and then afterwards you moved to

00:51:21.939 - 00:51:36.500

New York or what was that? I was, I was already in New York. So, so that was really tough on her because, you know, as you can imagine medical practice, um, is very often based on personal relationship with colleagues and creating a patient basis, you know,

00:51:36.729 - 00:51:50.340

so she was very brave and very kind that she agreed to move to New York because I thought about moving to Atlanta. Uh but at that time, I was teaching at the Juilliard. And uh I really had, you know, I mean, New York had been home

00:51:50.350 - 00:52:03.479

for me for a long time. So I thought living in Atlanta, you know what I'm gonna do? I have to quit the Juilliard and all that anyway. So she, she, you know, I went to um Atlanta to help her pack and she got into a U

00:52:03.489 - 00:52:19.989

haul truck. I got on a plane, flew back to New York. She drove with her mom and brother all the way up to New York with her belongings. And um initially she went into a, a hospital uh apartment. Um she got internship there, but then we

00:52:20.000 - 00:52:33.010

realized that was just the stupidest waste of money because she might as well just, you know, come and live with me. And so I think a couple three months later, yeah. And then I think soon thereafter I proposed to her. And, uh, and that was it.

00:52:33.020 - 00:52:55.320

Yeah, that was the beginning of the end. OK. And then, of course, you know, when I took the rice job, she again had to move. So she's moved twice, uh, because of me. So, so that's very, uh, very kind of it really. Um, uh, uh, I,

00:52:55.330 - 00:53:16.270

I can imagine a lot of people with, you know, career established, you know, they may not want to do that. It's a tough thing. Yeah. So how did you get into um Rice University or like what made you wanna come and help out here um at

00:53:16.280 - 00:53:38.399

James Dunham, a viola viola professor at Shepherd School. Just call me one day. Um I was in my car driving to our country house with my wife and um I was checking email and suddenly there was this note from James asking me, you know, asking basically,

00:53:38.409 - 00:53:54.540

am I barking up the wrong tree if I were to ask you if you would ever be interested to go to rise? Um Anyway, at that time, um I knew, of course James Dunham. Um I also knew then Harold this great cellist who um at that

00:53:54.550 - 00:54:11.250

time was teaching at Shepherd School also John Quimora Parker, uh a fantastic, great pianist. So these are very good friends and also very, very respected colleagues. So I thought, well, look, if they're teaching at Shepherds school, it must be a good place why don't I, you

00:54:11.260 - 00:54:29.199

know, maybe at least have a visit and, and I was so warmly welcomed here by the dean, by the faculty. You know, I, I gave a couple of classes, I was, you know, taken to dinner and, and uh lunch, you know, every meal, like no nice.

00:54:29.209 - 00:54:46.159

I even got taken to the faculty club. I've only been there twice, once with the faculty, you know, trying to entice me and the other time was to have lunch with Dean to finalize our agreement. And then ever since I became faculty here, I've not, I've

00:54:46.169 - 00:55:05.360

not set foot in a faculty club. Maybe I should go and revisit one day. Um Anyway, so, so, you know, and, and the idea of see, I have to be also a little bit more prag pragmatic because I was in my mid forties then. Uh I,

00:55:05.370 - 00:55:21.709

I loved teaching at the Juilliard and being in New York was so wonderful, but at the same time, I thought I couldn't go on playing concerts forever. And what about my pension? What about medical coverage? At that time, Juilliard did not provide any. So I had

00:55:21.719 - 00:55:41.750

to buy my own. And even though Debbie was working at a hospital, she thought I have better coverage coming from a big university like this. And so, um you know, the musical quality, the integrity of the staff and the faculty and plus the, the facility was

00:55:41.760 - 00:56:00.550

fantastic first rate new building and um so I said yes, you know, and, and um I said the most politically incorrect thing. Um I just like, you know how I said to my wife, my future wife, you know, don't get my brain hurts. You know, our

00:56:00.560 - 00:56:19.760

first phone conversation upon agreeing to, uh to come here. I said to our Dean Bob Jakovic. I said, you know, I hope, you know, that um the reason I just said yes to your invitation to teach here is because our Chinese can never say no to

00:56:19.770 - 00:56:48.040

rice. You know, it's just my warp sense of humor and, and I think seriously didn't know what to, didn't know what to say because, you know, it's just like, so a terrible thing to say, isn't it? Like, it's an awkward silence, you know, but I was,

00:56:48.050 - 00:57:06.889

I was, I was loving it because, you know, I thought, ok. Right. You got to make, you know, some, see some sense of humor in every situation. Did he end up saying? No, I don't think so. I think we went on to another subject. I think

00:57:06.899 - 00:57:27.699

he said, well, good, good. I'm glad you're gonna join us anyway. So, so that was a moment that I, I don't know. But anyway, I thank goodness I, I wasn't fired on the spot. Yeah, I imagine, you know, saying, oh, sorry, I have to rescind our

00:57:27.709 - 00:57:50.840

invitation and offer. We'll see, we'll, we'll see you to the airport. Bye. That is to Mhm. I feel like you guys have similar senses of humor. Yeah. Yeah, I think from the interviews. Yeah. Well, wait till you see our daughter, you know, she's pretty funny too.

00:57:51.090 - 00:58:11.810

Yeah, she gets most of my horrible jokes. Yeah. I think Debbie just pretty much tolerate my jokes. She's very, you know, good natured. She just rolled her eyes and she goes, oh, no. You know about that. Well, how have you enjoyed your time in Houston then?

00:58:11.939 - 00:58:30.590

Very much. Um, you know, I had come here to play um, many times over the years with the Houston Symphony and I always remember only the sprawling downtown which becomes empty after five o'clock and the enormous stretch of nothing, you know, when you have, like, not

00:58:30.600 - 00:58:46.399

this, you know, weird moments of, you know, warehouse stores, some apartment buildings, you know, and a park, you know, II, I didn't know how it was gonna take to this kind of living. Um, and of course, that's kind of, that's why Houston is, but I, I've

00:58:46.409 - 00:59:05.770

really gotten to like this place, you know, especially when it's nice and cool outside. Like today it's very nice. Um, but downtown, as, you know, as you know, it's not like the most happening place but here around here, you know, Rice Village, Kirby River Oaks. That's,

00:59:05.780 - 00:59:19.850

that's nice. Yeah. And, and we live in the Galleria area. That's also, you know, we're two blocks away from the, I mean, not two block we're about a mile and a half from the big shopping center. And so because of that, you know, whole foods just

00:59:19.860 - 00:59:36.689

open and they have some very good restaurants all nearby. So that's all good. And that's between Rice and Chinatown, you know, it's Galleria. So we can, I can go to Rice here or I can go to Chinatown this way. Very good. So where is your favorite

00:59:36.699 - 00:59:55.739

place to perform? Like anywhere in the world? In terms of concert hall or audience? Both, both? OK. I think the best audience in the world is in Germany. They're very serious, almost scary, you know, but they come, come dressed in jacket tie suits, you know, very

00:59:55.750 - 01:00:14.229

proper and they take their attitude, you know, but once they decide they like you, they, they, they, they will, they will, you know, really love you. But the most passionate audience in the world is in Spain, as you can imagine. Oh my God, you know, once

01:00:14.239 - 01:00:32.209

I remember I played a concerto and uh I had gone on stage on off stage like 56 times. I played an encore and it was, and finally the conductor who uh I remember it was Andre Previn. He pulled the orchestra off the stage because the intermission

01:00:32.219 - 01:00:48.250

had to start because otherwise the orchestra will never begin the second half they can. So, so I went at my dressing room, you know, I was ready to, you know, undo my bow tie and everything. And manager rushes in. She said they're still clapping for you

01:00:48.260 - 01:01:00.800

out there. I said no, the auction come off the stage. She says it doesn't matter, the stage is empty but they're still clapping for you. So go back out there. So I mean, I I was just so taken by their passion, you know, it was great.

01:01:01.040 - 01:01:18.399

Um And audiences in Korea also can be wild. I remember I went to play a concert and before we even played a note, they were stomping the, you know, the floor yelling crap. I felt like I was in a rock concert. That was really cool, you

01:01:18.409 - 01:01:37.040

know, I mean, it energized me immediately, you know. Um I turned to my colleague, I said, I think we should get off the stage while the going is good. Um And the best concert halls though, I think there's nothing that can uh duplicate Carnegie Hall. You

01:01:37.050 - 01:01:53.600

know, it's not only a beautiful hall, it's incredible sound, but it's also so full of history. Everybody who's been, somebody has played on that stage. So it's wonderful to be a part of that, you know, and in terms of sheer beauty of sound. Boston Symphony Hall

01:01:53.610 - 01:02:13.239

is also stunning. Uh Amsterdam's concern about is about the greatest hall in the world. And uh yeah, it is nothing like it. And um some of the worst halls are tend to be in France and in England. Yeah, I don't know. I think they have no,

01:02:13.679 - 01:02:39.810

um I have no touch for designing a good acoustical environment for concerts. I don't know why. Um, great halls in Moscow, Saint Petersburg. And of course, Vienna Japan has many beautiful, modern, very state of the art but beautiful sounding concert halls too. They, they know how

01:02:39.820 - 01:02:53.370

to build, you know, first rate. I wish, I think the British should just hire the Japanese, just say come, you know, just, you know, they should do, the British people should go to Tokyo Osaka and a few other places see these halls and just call the

01:02:53.379 - 01:03:19.870

design team says, can you just come to London and build one just like that? Just, you know, we'll just give you the land and just build it. But unfortunately, the Brits have not gotten so smart. Exactly. Mhm hm I do. So who are your favorite musicians

01:03:19.979 - 01:03:37.449

growing up? I know you talked about like, and like, oh Perlman, definitely my hero, you know, because he is such an astounding player and to this day he's still my favorite. I just, you know, an iconic and iconic violinist. I also grew up. Um Yeah, you

01:03:37.459 - 01:03:55.250

mentioned he, he's, he's for me, the king of them all, you know, they're a bunch of really great violinist and then there's, you know, there's no one quite like him, you know, the most unique, the most powerful presence I think on the concert stage and in

01:03:55.260 - 01:04:15.179

recordings. And of course, I also um a huge fan of the Russian Otra, uh Nathan Milstein and uh Isaac Stern, whom I got to know personally and I got to work with him a lot. Um I, um but, you know, and then on a slightly younger

01:04:15.189 - 01:04:34.989

generation, the Perlman generation, those who are in their sixties now, um Pink Zuckerman is another one. I think he's in a really, really great violinist in, in the class all by himself. Um And I think um uh older generation also, I always include uh Fritz Chrysler

01:04:35.330 - 01:05:03.489

and uh Xo Francisco. I think my love though, my, my admiration for musicians doesn't stop with only violin. I, I think, you know, uh my favorite instrumentalist include um the Russian cellist Rostropovich and also Yoyo Ma um pianist. I like Leon Fleischer. Um I think, uh

01:05:03.500 - 01:05:26.909

I mean, I, I did, you know, I got to play with Fleischer. So, um I really think he's incredible. Um Of course Horovitz from an earlier generation um rid of and, and, and the ones who are still active like I Emmanuel if um and uh Mary

01:05:26.919 - 01:05:43.669

Pariah Daniel Barenboim, you know, these are all great musicians and of course, you know, conductors, you go and composers, you go to like Leonard Bernstein, you know, Simon Rattle. Um And the list goes on, I mean, there's, there's a huge array of musicians that II I

01:05:43.679 - 01:06:00.169

love and admire. So your wife actually gave us kind of her perspective on 9 11 and how she felt like she became more of a New Yorker. How, when do you think you felt like you were a New Yorker? Um And how, what happened during 9

01:06:00.179 - 01:06:12.870

11 for you? I felt like a New Yorker within like about two days after arriving in New York. I'm serious. I, I just as soon as I was able to figure out how to read a map and I realized how easy it is to navigate New

01:06:12.879 - 01:06:24.790

York because everything is numerical. Um I just felt totally at ease. I never felt like I was scared or intimidated by New York City for one day. I just thrived even though I had no money. You know, my first couple of years in New York, I

01:06:24.800 - 01:06:37.739

was poor, you know, getting a Big Mac was a big, you know, it was, it was a real treat for me. But uh but I didn't mind the poverty, you know. Um And at 9 11, I remember I was in Sydney, I was on a concert

01:06:37.750 - 01:06:58.830

tour and um I remember reading emails and somebody said, hey, I think there's been an accident at World Trade Center. And, and so I clicked on, I forget uh some news channel and then there was the smoke coming out of the tower. And then my, there

01:06:58.840 - 01:07:18.100

was an evening, my uncle was downstairs watching TV, and he immediately came over and said you should watch this. And I went downstairs and of course, within a few minutes, you know, they, they, they had, um, um, plugged into, um, uh, the, the, the Today Show.

01:07:18.840 - 01:07:33.030

Um, this is an NBC. Uh, they, they, they used the American Today Show often in, in their, uh, in their original format, but that day they just went straight live to a New York feed and then sure enough, the second plane went crashing and I couldn't

01:07:33.040 - 01:07:55.149

believe it, you know, and a and so after maybe five minutes just for the shock to sink in to realize what it is, I, I tried to call, my wife couldn't get through, you know, the lines were completely, um, busy. I think. I wasn't, I wasn't

01:07:55.159 - 01:08:11.929

sure whether New York was getting inundated with phone calls or there was such a serious terrorist attack that the phone system was shut down, you know, it was sabotaged. So I didn't know. So I just kept calling, kept calling and I, I, you know, really couldn't

01:08:11.939 - 01:08:31.128

sleep that night. I kept, you know, just trying to phone, I think finally the next morning in Australia, which was that night I got through to my wife and found out what she had endured that day. But of course, I didn't know, um, the full extent

01:08:31.139 - 01:08:48.669

of her ordeal until I went back to New York, which was about three weeks later. And I remember, you know, arriving at Kennedy Airport, I wasn't sure what kind of New York City I was gonna see, you know, I thought it was gonna be like, you

01:08:48.680 - 01:09:03.918

know, like what Tokyo looked like after Godzilla had gone through it or not, you know, it was, but of course it was only that those two towers that got destroyed. Um, but, but I was just so scared, I was really nervous, you know, everybody was like,

01:09:03.929 - 01:09:19.509

you know, looking over their shoulders and then it, it was a couple of days later after I arrived and I realized um I, I felt the impact of 9 11, my wife and I was strolling up from midtown and suddenly five police cars, you know, went

01:09:19.520 - 01:09:38.809

up Amsterdam Avenue and suddenly stopped and turned their side, you know, their lights on and stop all traffic. And I thought, oh no, another attack. And no, it was a, a funeral procession for some of the firefighters there, there's a fire station, three blocks away from

01:09:38.818 - 01:09:56.659

our house and two firefighters were being buried that day. So there was a funeral procession that starts from the firehouse to a chapel or church. And so, and, and so so the police stopped traffic. So for the procession to pass by and, and that really hit

01:09:56.668 - 01:10:21.939

me really hard at that moment. And um maybe a month or so later, I went down to the soho area to visit um this um famous film director Lee. Um and his office looks out over downtown and um and I looked at this huge window. And

01:10:21.950 - 01:10:38.439

someone from the office said, yeah, the two towers used to be right there. You know, they, they filled our window. That was, you know, and now we always see the sky. And so as I left the office, I suddenly smelled, I guess the wind blew in

01:10:38.450 - 01:10:57.600

such a way. I smelled this terrible burnt plastic smell. It was unique, that smell. I'll never forget. And, and that was from the remnants of the World Trade Center. You know, because the ash has scattered so many places. You know, once in a while from some

01:10:57.609 - 01:11:13.399

corner, you know, the wind will still pick it up and you can smell it. Um, and, and you can see also straight down broadway, you can see, um, machines, you know, the huge ex excavation machines going to work at the site. Of course, you're not allowed

01:11:13.410 - 01:11:28.290

to go past a certain point unless you live there with a driver's license. You know, you can only go, but you can see the machines that work from afar. So that's when it hit me really hard. You know, I felt like this is a terrible, just

01:11:28.299 - 01:11:45.939

a terrible thing. You know, all your sense of security was destroyed and why it was gone. I didn't know anyone at the working at the World Trade Center that day, but I know plenty of other people who saw, um, I mean, people who live downtown who

01:11:45.950 - 01:12:07.720

saw the actual airplane flying in and also those who knew people who worked there so, through, you know, different degrees of connection. I felt it. Um, oh, it's a very heavy experience, I would imagine. Yeah. And of course, my wife can tell you much more because

01:12:07.729 - 01:12:24.879

she did a whole follow up study about the rate of asthma attacks, you know, in, in different kids from lower Manhattan versus upper Manhattan. You know, the fallout from all the contamination. You know, one of the most, I guess the most readily apparent symptom is respiratory

01:12:24.890 - 01:12:39.129

stress and asthma is apparently a very telling thing. So she did a whole follow up. She even fought against the EPA. The EPA had agreed, I mean, had, you know, stated that the downtown area was safe to go back to live in her study showed that

01:12:39.140 - 01:13:01.029

it was not. So she, you know, her, her group got into a tussle with the EPA at, at one point. Ok. Well, we are reaching the end of the interview. Um Is there anything else you'd like to add? Thank you for chatting with us. This has

01:13:01.040 - 01:13:23.250

been very insightful. Oh, I I just want to add one more thing. A short one about the um development of since its Asian studies, the incredible prominence and importance that Asian musicians are now exerting around the world. It's incredible. Um You know, I think of myself

01:13:23.259 - 01:13:45.270

as more of a pioneer, you know, I said, um in the beginning of this interview that I was the only Chinese student in the Sydney Conservatory Music, one of the three Asian students. Now you go and see competition winners, major competition winners, concert masters of the

01:13:45.279 - 01:14:05.140

top orchestras. You know, whether it's the Berlin Philharmonic or the um Philadelphia orchestra, they're all over, you know, faculty at top schools. I used to be the only at the Juilliard Faculty there are now three LYS teaching there. And of course, that's another subject for another

01:14:05.149 - 01:14:26.069

joke another day. But that's OK. Which are you referring to anyway? Um, but I just, I, I think the world has changed so much, you know, in, in, in the music world that is in the last 25 years. And I used to get asked, you know,

01:14:26.080 - 01:14:40.319

by journalists. Well, you're from Taiwan. So, uh how do you know how to play Mozart? How do you get to know play play Beethoven? How do you know all that, especially from the Central Europeans because they, they're much more tradition bound. You know, they tend to

01:14:40.330 - 01:14:54.569

think that their own tradition is the best in the world and often they're right. Sure. You know, Vienna Berlin Prague, you know, they, they are very traditional, good for them. But, you know, it's time to march in the 21st century also, you know, and so they

01:14:54.580 - 01:15:12.049

have, you know, Berlin Philharmonic has a Japanese concert master. So it's, it's incredible, you know, how much respect now, uh musicians from Asia or of Asian descent now have gained, you know, in, in this world of music. And I was watch, I was reading Friday's edition

01:15:12.060 - 01:15:31.200

of Wall Street Journal is a huge uh entire section devoted to Chinese architects. Now designing, you know, the the the newest museums, residential areas around the world, you know, they're hot, you know, Asian art. Now you face some of the highest prices in in auction. Um

01:15:31.259 - 01:15:45.200

So it's a very different world, you know, from, from the poor Taiwan and the poor China, you know that I saw in the seventies and the eighties. So it's incredible. Wait, so what do you, what do you think like brought about that? Like even from like

01:15:45.279 - 01:16:01.729

Japan and Korea to like um the musicians, they're like, how come there was just almost like suddenly such a great story. Well, the Tai Pool has always been there just that economic prosperity I think has opened the doors for them. Number one to get better teachers,

01:16:02.399 - 01:16:20.850

better instruments and more ability to go to the Juilliard Curtiss and other, you know, because they can't afford it now, you know, and, and um I remember, you know, in the early days after China's Cultural Revolution ended the first batch of students came over, including, you

01:16:20.859 - 01:16:37.430

know, very famous composers, like they had no money, you know, they would play in the subway to, to earn a few bucks, you know, they would work in a restaurant and, and, and nowadays, you know, the prosperity, you know, Taiwanese Chinese students come here. They, they,

01:16:37.439 - 01:16:53.350

they live in nice apartments and stuff, you know, I mean, there's still some very poor students. Of course, not everyone is rich in Taiwan or China, but at least the opportunities are much better. You know, and they, and the Koreans, they, they play violin really well

01:16:53.359 - 01:17:09.850

because they have really serious training. Parents are devoted and they also, they go all out to buy a good instrument for their child. So they don't play on junk violin. So as a result, they sound good when they come over. And so that's an incredible advantage

01:17:09.859 - 01:17:20.720

to have and, and the work ethics, of course, you know, we always talk about that, you know, tiger mom and what not, you know, we all know about that. So, so we don't need to dwell on that. But the thing is, I think in Asia there

01:17:20.729 - 01:17:32.720

are just so many tiger moms, you know, that it's not even like, you know, nobody is willing to even look twice at a tiger mom. That's just, you know, that's a given, you know, tell your mom. Yeah. Well, we have 20 of them on this block,

01:17:32.729 - 01:17:50.379

you know. Um, so I think, I think, I think that's a very, um in incredible transformation for such a short time because you think about classical music has been around for 23, 400 years, you know, and, and in the earlier part of the century. It took

01:17:50.390 - 01:18:10.740

about 40 to 60 years for the eastern European migration, the Russians, the Poles, the Hungarians, um and the Czechs, uh and Romanians to migrate to the Western Europe and to America to establish what American classical music is. And in 20 years, the Asians have already done

01:18:10.750 - 01:18:25.970

it. It's incredible. You know, they're fast, you know, let's hope they keep it up, you know, because that's another thing, you know, people worry about like in, in, in China, you know, the, the, the the younger talents are there, but are they willing to work so

01:18:25.979 - 01:18:41.000

hard to play the violin or piano? Well, while they can actually, you know, go into business school and earn a hell of a lot more quickly. So that's the challenge right now. So we'll see how this, you know, phenomenon will, will continue or last. You know,

01:18:41.790 - 01:19:01.779

that's what I, that's the bit I wanted to add. Sorry, I spoke so much for you to transcribe so you can erase it all. Oh, ok. Thank you. No, it's a great pleasure. Thank you. Thank you. Well, this should be like, uh yeah, you should like

01:19:01.790 - 01:19:07.720

if you want to hire a transcriber, I'll pay for it. Save you some time.