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So my friends want—want me to let them know what kind of question you will ask us. Oh! So they will be able to …. So I … Yeah, so this interview is mostly just about your history and your life experiences, so you

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can talk about anything that you want to talk about. We're just interested in hearing what your experiences as an Asian American in Houston. Okay. So just start from, I guess, yeah, if you want to

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start from your childhood and like what influenced you and what made you decide to come here or just start wherever you feel comfortable. Come to the United States you mean? Mm-hmm. Yeah. Uh, okay.

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Let me start with probably, uh, the year I was in middle school, high school. Okay. Let me see. I graduated in 1965 in middle school

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and then get into high school. Okay. But, uh, before I finished the first year in the high school, and, uh, uh, Chinese—says— has a Cultural Revolution.

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I don't know if you have any idea about that. Okay. So they started the, you know, Cultural Revolution and then the school all, you know, uh, stopped. Uh, no class

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in the school. And then we stayed in the school for about—let's see that's 1968—we stayed in school for about less than …. Oh, 1966 yeah, the Cultural Revolution started, so we

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stayed there for about two and half years. Then—then we get into the—about end of 1968. And the—then Chairman, um— Chairman Mao started to say, “Okay, those young

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kids who are in middle school, high school, uh, go to countryside to learn from peasants.” Okay, so actually at that time we were kind

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of like whichever Chairman Mao said, we would just go. We go for it. We didn't know, you know, much about those things, so I went to countryside. I went to countryside with, uh,

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some of my classmates. You know, three—uh, two classmates and a couple of other, you know, uh, students. And at that time I was the first year high school student.

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Okay. And, uh, I stayed in countryside for about—actually altogether about five years. Okay, and the, hmm—the first two and a half years were just, uh, you know, I did the

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labor work with the peasants together because, you know, in China at that time, uh, the land—the land in, uh, countryside was, you know, assigned to group of people not individual people.

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So then, you know, I was with a, you know, work group. We called a bridge. We call it bridge. And then we have about, uh, like, uh, probably about 100 people,

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you know, in that village. And, uh— Wh— I did the labor work for two and a half years. What was the village called where you did the labor work? Oh the—okay, the village.

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Mm-hmm. Um, this is called Yang Village. Okay. Yeah, actually I had one—I, you know—I wrote one article, uh, which said that the first day, uh, of my countryside life in Yang Village.

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Oh! Yeah. Cool Yeah. I had one article for that. So I went there and then we did the labor work. And at first, you know, we just, uh, feel, “Okay, we need to learn from

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peasants” or something like that. But, uh, you know, several years after we started to kind of have a kind of feeling: it seems like there is no hope for us to get back to our city, uh, with

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our parents and get back to university to study anymore. And, uh, I was a good student when I was in high school, middle school. So then I really loved study. And, uh, we lost that opportunity.

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I thought I—we lost that opportunity forever. Okay? So I started to, uh, learn something by myself. Since you know when I was in elementary school, and I went—I was in a vanguard school,

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elementary school, so I learned some English there and—on the fifth grade, sixth grade. But when I get into middle school, I was assigned to a class, you know, uh, to learn, uh, Russian.

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Oh, wow! You know, we have—actually we have four classes altogether in my, uh, grade and then two, you know, uh—two classes learned Russian and another two class learn English.

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So I was assigned to learn Russian. So I learned Russian for three years in middle school and then another year in high school. For four years. Wow. But now I almost have forgot everything.

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Okay. So, then—so I started to learn something by myself, you know. And, uh—and then after that—and, uh—we have actually, that village, uh,

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has—not that village. We—we call the, uh—there is a larger unit which consists of about 20, you know, villages. Okay. There is a elementary school there.

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Okay? And uh, uh, so the children, uh, there, they go to that—they went to that elementary school. And at that time, you know, Chinese government all—also, you know, they like, uh, those, uh, kids to be able to get,

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uh, uh, not only elementary school education, but also middle school education. So then, you know, we do not have much facility. So that school, they started to add two more grades, so grade

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seven, grade eight. Like this, so in the same school, okay, they just teach the middle school stuff, you know, based on those, you know, textbooks. So then, um—and then I was,

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uh, you know—I was assigned to go there to, uh, teach. And, uh—but I would not get salary, uh, as the other teachers. So the other teachers, they were, uh, kind of like belonged to the government education system.

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They—they have salary, but I didn't have salary. And, uh, I have a kind of like a—they just count those points, you know, to

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try to, uh, get my food, or other things I get from, you know—from village, you know, instead. So I was a teacher there for another, about two years, two and a half year. Okay. And

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they have—it's very interesting that that village, uh, that school, uh, didn't have anyone who can teach English. But they said, well, middle school students needs to learn a foreign language, one

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foreign language. And then I told them I learned a little bit English while I was in elementary school. So I started to, you know, teach English, and I teach math—I taught mathematics.

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I taught English. You know, I also taught kindergarten. So that school is like, uh, starting from kindergarten and then first grade, second grade, and then seventh

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grade, eighth grade altogether, you know? Yeah. And, uh, uh, that facility, you know, they—they do not have enough teachers. They didn't have enough students either actually.

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So like, uh, I teach a class which is the—the combination of second and fourth grade. So, you know, two grades get together into one class. And then every one hour, uh, I teach the—you know, one

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part of the students like for, uh, a half hour and then let them do exercise and then teach another— another half like his one. So I stay there for altogether five years.

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Okay. So then on, uh—actually on the fourth year, I got a opportunity to get into a kind of community college and, uh, I was recommended by them, by them. And they said, “Okay, you—it seems you love study.

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And then we will send—we would like to recommend you to go to that community college.” And, uh, so I was so happy. And, uh, my mom even, you know, uh, tried—paid money

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to ask a for—fortuneteller person to try to see whether I would be able to, you know, leave— Oh! —countryside or not. And then they said yes.

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But, unfortunately, I wanted—or, I was still there. And, uh, well, at that time, uh, I thought I would stay in—in the countryside for my whole life. And my mom even said, you know, “If you—you—you

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have to stay in countryside, you know, and, uh—I would—I will, you know, stay with you after my retirement.” Something like that. Okay.

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But things changed the second year and, uh, that's 1973. Deng Xiaoping got on the stage—got back on the stage. Let me say this way because Deng Xiaoping was criticized by

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Chairman Mao, you know, during Cultural Revolution. And as he, you know, he got back to stage, he said, “We need to, you know, not only consider about politics things, but also we need

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to have our economics be strong.” And, uh, so he started to try to, you know, do a lot of things to try to, uh, you know, bring up the economic, you know, part. But then he was, you know, step

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down—stage up, step down, stage up, or something like that. And, in 1973, he was stage up. And then he said, “Whoever wants to go to university, need to, uh—recommendation is important.

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However, they need to take examination.” So—so then that—that is a kind of, you know, favor to me. And, uh, so—so then I was recommended. So our, uh, whole, uh, community, we have 20 big

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bridges, about 20. And then they said, uh, um …. We have—I—I don’t—I don’t know how many, probably 800, you know, young kids like

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me who were sent to that, you know, uh—the—the—that area. And then they said, uh, uh, there were four people who can go to university. So we have several hundred, 600, 800 something like

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that. So then, they recommended 12, you know—12 students. So I was one of them. Wow. So then they said, “Well we recommended you and after that, it all depends on you.

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If you are able to get a high score and then you will be accepted.” Okay. So then I went there. I took the examination, and fortunately, you know, I didn’t give up during the time I stayed in countryside.

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But, uh, I did feel very sorry for some of those kids who are really very nice, you know, uh, kids and then they—they were very good student when they were in school, but after they get into

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countryside, you didn’t—they didn’t touch book. They didn’t touch textbook. So then I took examination and then I was accepted. Okay? I accepted and, uh—actually at the time

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when I, you know, applied for the admission we need to fill form, right? Say what is your, um—so which university you’d like to go. I dare not to

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fill any good university. Instead I just, you know, filled university which is called Yangzhou Normal University, which is local university. And, uh—and then because I was afraid,

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you know, they just do not let me leave, and so if I went to a local normal school and then after that I would still be a teacher and I can, you know, come back to teach in that elementary school

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and middle school, you know, like this. So—so then I did that way. But, uh—but it is, you know it just happened at that time and the university, they don’t care which university you applied for.

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And it happened the university I went, you know, they need to—they need to, uh, have a special class—no, no, you know— special class which they need 100 person to—training that

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100 people to become university professors. So then, you know, I—I believe I got a pretty high score and then I just was just admitted into that university—so into that

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university to study mechanical engineering which was not my—not—not—actually, I don’t really—I do not have any knowledge about mechanical engineering.

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I—I like mathematics very much. I like, you know—I—I didn’t have any knowledge about that. I just feel I was not good at that.

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I was not talented on that. And—but I went there. So did you get—sorry. Yeah. Go ahead Um, did you get placed in the mechanical engineering because of your test

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scores or …? It’s just because they want to have 100. You know, they want to training—you, know, to try to train 100 university to—the—they want to have higher score.

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Yeah. Okay. Yeah. Students—so they picked me. They picked me. So is that, um, Huazhong University ‘cause I noticed your— Huazhong University!

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Yes! I looked it up! And I was interested. You—you know that. Yeah, that’s Huazhong University of Science and Technology. Actually now it—it—it turned out to be a pretty famous university in China. Wow. I was actually trying to figure out how you got from Jiangsu to Hebei

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for university and I was going to ask you about that. Oh yeah? Oh, uh-huh, uh-huh, that’s the reason. You know, uh, originally I only applied for local university in Jiangsu—yeah, in Jiangsu but I

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was accepted there, so then I went there. I went there and I studied, you know, majored in mechanical engineering for three years and I graduated in 1976.

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And, uh—and then after that, uh, I was remained, you know, to— I was, say, immediately hired by the same university. So become a teacher. Wow. So actually, in China in the universities, they would like to keep their

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own, you know, good students after their graduation to be a good teacher. They like to do this. It’s not like in United States, probably you’d like to get other blood.

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Okay. So then, uh, I became a teacher there. And, uh, then, uh, probably one year or two year after and then the university—the university started to form a new department, computer science department.

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And then they need more—they need to have some teacher there, and, uh, then I was picked there. Wow. So I didn’t have any computer science background and become a computer

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science department teacher. And actually many of other teachers, you know, in the department was from mathematics. That’s in the early years.

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They always do this way. They think their mathematic, you know, the …. Uh, so—so my colleagues, many of them are mathematic, you know, teachers.

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Yeah, so—so I was there and then worked with them, and then we start to learn some program languages and those things anyway, at that way. And then in, uh, 19—in 1977, so, uh—in 1977,

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yeah—actually after I got into university in 1973, in, uh—just one year after, Deng Xiaoping stepped down again. He stepped down again, and because he stepped down again, and then,

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no entry examinations any more. So then, uh, they continued to just use recommendation. So, you know, if you are recommended, then you would be able to get into university.

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So therefore the quality of the students dropped down definitely— Oh. —because, you know learning—they do not need to take entry examination. So as long as

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you were very good, you know, doing labor work in countryside probably you would be recommended. Okay? So who wrote those recommendations?

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Um … Okay, usually like in my village, we have a bridge, bridge has about 20 villages, okay? And above a bridge there is—we call a commune, okay? There is another layer, okay, recommended

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by that layer. Okay? But they’re probably also—sometimes they get opinion from the, you know—from the bridge head. Okay. Okay, something like that.

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But because, you know, that’s big, big difference, you know, uh, comparing with working in countryside. So, uh—so things happen. For example, you know,

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some people probably have a good—a relative that know head or something and then they get opportunity to get to university. Oh. So that’s what people say, backdoor.

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So they went to university, you know, through backdoor instead of like a—a fair competition. Oh. Something like that, yeah. Okay. But then, you know, that lasted for another couple of years until

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1977. Deng Xiaoping got back up again. He got back to stage again. 1977, at that time Chairman Mao has already died, pass away.

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Chairman Mao pass away and Deng Xiao—you know people, you now, started to feel it’s very important to develop the economic, you know—economics, so then they got Deng Xiaoping back. And then at about, I think about the end of 1977,

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and, um—end of 1977, yes—Deng Xiaoping, you, know announced, uh—I’ll say Central China, okay—the Committee, they announced say well, “Deng Xiaoping said

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whoever wants to go to university, okay, has to take entry examination.” Okay. And, uh, uh, there is no one who, uh, can, you know, fight against the people who are in

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your part—unit—work in your unit, to take entry examination. So that’s really big, big mandatory, you know—uh, favor to us. Those young kids who were in—either in countryside or

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have already, you know, get back in the city to do some other things. You know, like my husband actually—you know, my husband stayed in countryside for about two and a half year, and, uh—and then he got opportunity to, uh, get

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into our, uh, you know, county troupe, uh, because he play, um, uh, flute. He play flute, and then, you know he gets into, uh, there. So he does not need to—he did not need to go to any, uh,

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labor work anymore. You know, he left. And then in 1977 because Deng Xiaoping said this. So all those people who originally were in middle

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school, high school, even elementary school, as long as you think you are able, you want to go to university, you can—can take entry examination. So that’s 1977.

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That’s a big, big year. So if now, you talk with people, talk about, uh, did you—you get into university in 1977? And if they say yes, they would feel very proud of

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themself because at that time—I don’t know the whole country how many young kids there think this way. So only a small, uh, percentage of the people who were able to pass entry

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examinations. The competition is very, very high. Yeah. And my—my husband—actually, my husband—when Cultural Revolution started, my husband has already get into his twelfth grade.

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He almost finished all those, you know, high school, you know, study. But he lost opportunity to get into university in the regular—you know, uh, you know, because of Cultural Revolution, so

00:22:12.220 - 00:22:27.620

then he took entry examination in 1977. Okay. Before that, he thought he would never have the opportunity to get into university. Okay. And my brother was in fourth grade, in elementary

00:22:28.360 - 00:22:41.290

school when Cultural Revolution started, and he took entry examination in 1977, and then he was admitted also. My husband was admitted.

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He was admitted. My nephew, uh—I have another—I have another nephew, he was also admitted. So, they were all very good students

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while they were in school, but lost opportunity for that many years. So in 1977, they all, you know, got admitted. But actually, the Jiangsu province, you know I was born in Jiangsu Province.

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The Jiangsu Province, the whole province because there were too many candidates who applied, you know, registered to take the examination, and the— the—the Jiangsu education system, you know, they believe there were too many.

00:23:24.030 - 00:23:39.020

And because the whole country then will have the, you know, examination, they said—they just think that’s too many people. They said, “Well let’s make the first exam to, you know, just try to drop, you

00:23:39.020 - 00:23:53.230

know, the big percentage and let those winners to take the second examination.” So then, you know—so my husband, my—my brother, and my nephew, so, they all took first examination and

00:23:53.300 - 00:24:09.370

then after the first drop—and then they took the second examination. Even the second examination, that is 29 to 1. So that means, you know, uh, 29, you know, candidates there is only 1 who was accepted.

00:24:10.510 - 00:24:25.970

So after the first big drop. So, and that is about, uh, 1977. 2007, 30 years after that, and a lot of articles, they’re

00:24:25.970 - 00:24:41.650

starting to celebrate—to try to celebrate 30 years, you know, anniversary of those 1977 students. And then they started to announce all these numbers and then I—I—I found—I

00:24:41.650 - 00:24:54.520

say—yeah, I knew it was very, very difficult and then I didn’t recognize that it’s so difficult, you know? So they get into university. You know, my husband just applied for the same

00:24:54.760 - 00:25:10.220

university. So then we—you know, we really …. Say this way, at that time I was a teacher; he was a student. So his classmates and, uh, you know, my colleagues, we all

00:25:10.220 - 00:25:24.660

joke at him. Say, “Your wife is teacher. You are a student,” something like that, yeah. And then, you know, though I was a stude—you know, I was a teacher, but, uh, I

00:25:24.660 - 00:25:39.040

still feel kind of like a—you know I—I feel kinda—especially after my husband get into university, get into school, and those students like me, you know, who were hired immediately after

00:25:39.040 - 00:25:53.420

our graduation, we feel kind of we need to learn more. You know? We need to learn more because, you know, 1977, 1978 those students took so hard, you

00:25:53.420 - 00:26:09.870

know, examination, and after their graduation, definitely they get the regular, you know, education and then their quality will be higher than us. Very much likely. So though I—I believe that, you know, our group, my

00:26:09.920 - 00:26:23.270

group they all love, you know, to learn. Okay? They all love to learn because we lost that five years opportunity. We just feel kind of, um—I want to catch up.

00:26:24.060 - 00:26:39.360

Something like that. Okay. So then in 1978—yeah, one year or so after this 1977—in 1978, and the university started to say, “We want to also develop the, uh, graduate program.”

00:26:41.070 - 00:26:51.420

So they started to, you know, recruit graduate students. Before that, there was no graduate students. Okay. So they stopped, you know, during Cultural Revolution.

00:26:51.860 - 00:27:05.790

So they said, “We want to have graduate student.” And then I planned to take entry examination to get into graduate school. Again, it was very, very hard because I think about—during Cultural Revolution, those

00:27:07.250 - 00:27:21.600

students who were in university already, okay, and then they graduated, uh, they were, you know, sent to, you know, different department. “You need to work there.” But many of them

00:27:22.310 - 00:27:34.410

were assigned a job because at that time after you graduate from university, you are—you belong to the government workers, okay? So then government assigned you a job—assigned you a job.

00:27:34.440 - 00:27:50.890

Like one of my brother, uh, older brother, you know, he graduated from Nanjing University, another pretty famous university in Jiangsu, uh, top university in Jiangsu. And he graduated in Nanjing University, and—but during Cultural Revolution

00:27:51.290 - 00:28:03.350

he was in his I think third year in university. And then Cultural Revolution started, so—which means he didn’t finish another two years before his graduation.

00:28:04.280 - 00:28:14.990

And then they were all assigned a job. So he was—he was assigned a job to teach in middle school, which he really feel kind of very sorry because he

00:28:14.990 - 00:28:27.480

didn’t know how to control those kids. He feel, you know, he—he—he—he couldn’t— you, know, he feel—he liked to do research. He—he liked to do—to be a university professor,

00:28:28.260 - 00:28:42.950

you know, and then he so …. And, uh, so then—so in 1978, you know, they started to have graduate program. And I was going to take entry examination, but, uh, I

00:28:42.950 - 00:28:58.480

gave up because at that time I’ve already had my kid—my—my child—my child, and then I feel kind of very, very tired to take care of my child and also to be a teacher, uh, teaching 1977 students.

00:29:00.860 - 00:29:16.180

And, uh, also, uh, you know, our university’s pretty good. They also, you know, uh, uh, have a kind of a training program to let us, you know, who has already been, you know, hired by the university to get,

00:29:17.340 - 00:29:32.120

you know, more knowledge, okay? So—so they—they arranged a professor to teach us young teachers. So therefore, you know, I was very busy at that time and, uh, sometime not very healthy even at that

00:29:32.150 - 00:29:49.610

time. Hurt a lot, hurt my body a lot. And, uh—but I want to study, but I gave up for the 1978, and then 1979, I took entry examination, get into graduate school … program.

00:29:50.370 - 00:30:01.270

So then I— because at that time, I was a computer science teacher already, right? So then, uh, I applied for, uh, computer science, you know.

00:30:01.450 - 00:30:17.430

I was, uh, accepted, uh, you know, into the computer science program. So I wrote those computer science theories and other things there, yeah. And, uh, after my graduation—so I was—I—I still

00:30:18.370 - 00:30:34.770

stayed in the same university, you know, as a teacher there, and, uh, until 1984. 1984, the World Bank—the World Bank tried to help China to

00:30:34.770 - 00:30:50.810

develop, you know, uh, our, you know, uh—to help China. So then they, uh, I think they, uh— we had a loan—loan from them. So Chinese government had loan from, uh, World Bank, uh,

00:30:51.040 - 00:31:05.010

got, uh, you know, some money. And then they selected people to go abroad. So I was selected. So I was sponsored by, uh, Chinese government, actually with, uh, World Bank money.

00:31:05.990 - 00:31:22.700

So I came here first as a visiting scholar and, uh, worked at the University of Maryland at computer science department with uh, uh, uh, department chair, uh, Dr. Raymond Ye doing

00:31:22.700 - 00:31:34.360

research in there. And then, you know, he actually—he was the department chair. He also owns his own company, so we have a group of visiting scholars

00:31:34.760 - 00:31:48.520

who are doing research in his company, including me, okay? But later on, he dropped, uh, uh, uh—I think, you know, he quit the job and run a company, uh, run his company in

00:31:48.520 - 00:32:02.050

Austin—in Austin. And then we have several visiting scholars, you know, working with him in Maryland, in University of Maryland, and then, uh, when he moved to Austin, he brought some

00:32:02.130 - 00:32:14.160

of us, including me. So I came south, okay—came south. And then, uh, I told him—and I said, “Well, I want to go to university to study for my PhD.” Uh, so

00:32:16.600 - 00:32:28.430

then I came to Houston. I studied at University of Houston for my PhD. So I came to this library a lot while I—I was a student.

00:32:28.430 - 00:32:40.990

Oh! Wow! So when you—you—you say Fondren Library, I didn’t know the name of this library. I thought Rice, they have several libraries. Fondren Library. You know, uh, we came here a lot

00:32:40.990 - 00:32:54.920

to—to try to find some materials. Yeah. My son also graduated here. Oh! Cool. Yeah, yeah, he graduated here, yeah. So then, I—you know, I—I studied for my PhD, and

00:32:55.390 - 00:33:09.600

then I got a PhD from University of Houston and then got a job at Sam Houston State University. Okay. Yeah. Wow. And so how were you reunited with your family after you—did you go back to China

00:33:09.600 - 00:33:21.580

afterwards or did you just stay here? Oh, actually, I studied here by myself, uh, from 1984 to 1986. Okay, about two and a half

00:33:21.580 - 00:33:36.930

year. At about end of 1986—the end of 1986 and Chinese government started to … hmm, uh, the policy became more open. So more openness.

00:33:36.930 - 00:33:53.380

Said, “Well, uh, if you—if you’d like to invite your spouse to come to United States, you can do so.” But before that, uh, you know, they just did not want to do that way because they were afraid you would not go back, right?

00:33:53.780 - 00:34:06.920

Right. They spent money on us and if we just stay in United States, uh, that’s not good to the Chinese government. So then, uh—but in 19—hmm, 1986, at the

00:34:07.000 - 00:34:17.790

end of 1986, uh, at that time I studied in University of Houston for one year already. So I started in January and then my husband and my son came in November.

00:34:18.930 - 00:34:28.350

In November, yeah. And then Chinese government, uh, you know, begin to be more open. And they believed that, uh, they just say, “Well you’re

00:34:28.350 - 00:34:47.200

welcome, definitely, you know, we would be very happy if you can come back and serve for the country.” And, uh, uh—and they believed that even though some of us do not, you know go back and it definitely will still be helpful, and, uh

00:34:47.580 - 00:35:03.470

so, for the like exchange program and those things. Yeah I think Chinese government did the right thing. And, uh, I feel actually that is a fact, and, uh, though many people stayed here in United States, and it really also

00:35:03.510 - 00:35:17.510

helped the China, you know, the exchange, you know, uh, uh, helped a lot—help a lot. We have, actually—we have—uh, like our university in—in

00:35:17.510 - 00:35:27.320

China and the president and the deans and other people, they come to, you know, visit in United States. We all host them, right?

00:35:28.030 - 00:35:47.050

And when we go back to China, and then we’ll visit our, you know, university and then can give some seminars to them, so. Okay. So those first years, when you—when you first moved to Maryland and it was a totally new environment, what was that cultural

00:35:47.790 - 00:36:00.520

adaptation process like? I mean how was that? That is true. Yeah, that is true. And, uh, actually, you know, first several months was okay with me because, uh, we have so big a group

00:36:00.520 - 00:36:10.450

of visiting scholars together. Oh, okay. And then we—every day we took the university bus together. We took bus together. We go shopping together.

00:36:10.640 - 00:36:24.430

We even lived together because, um, our boss say , uh— our boss, he has, uh, you know, some houses, you know. He has some houses; he just let us stay

00:36:24.430 - 00:36:35.750

there. And we were sponsored by Chinese government, so therefore we actually do not need him to pay us. Yeah, that’s kind of free research for him, you know?

00:36:36.280 - 00:36:49.780

And, uh, but we also learned, you know? We learned. Like, you know, at that time he was very famous in software engineering. So at that time, he asked us to, you know—to develop system

00:36:49.780 - 00:37:04.630

for the program generator. But the program generator at that time was really, really new. And I didn’t know what—what that mean. And we just tried forms, you know, buttons, those things

00:37:04.630 - 00:37:17.460

and, uh, I—you know, I didn’t know anything about that. We just tried to write a program to draw those forms, draw those buttons, and then try to make it work in some way like what we

00:37:17.460 - 00:37:34.570

guess. Until 198 … 6 I think, beginning of 19—1986, 1985? And, uh, when I was moved to Austin, and then I found, uh, Macintosh has those graphic interface.

00:37:35.330 - 00:37:47.570

So you see? And then in 1986, I found, uh, Microsoft Windows started to have graphics user interface. But, actually, my boss really he was very famous in software engineering.

00:37:48.690 - 00:37:58.460

Yeah. He—he has already predicted that and just ask us to do something. We just, uh, you know, unfortunately we didn’t know much about that.

00:37:59.310 - 00:38:12.010

But then I found, you know, what he actually ask us to do is very much like a visualizing, but that’s about 10, 15 years after Visual Basic was—get on market. Let’s see, yeah.

00:38:14.330 - 00:38:28.950

Wow. A lot of difficulties after I get into University of Houston, actually. Oh. You know, at that time, you know, uh, I was—you know, I drove here by myself. And, uh— well, I hate to say drove here by myself.

00:38:29.480 - 00:38:43.800

Uh, you know, I bought a car in Austin in order for me to come to University of Houston. I bought a car, a used car with like 750 dollars. Okay? A very

00:38:43.870 - 00:39:01.620

old Chevrolet. You know, but, uh, before I—I came here, I never drove on highway. Oh. So everyday, I just drive from where I live to the company, to my boss company about two

00:39:01.620 - 00:39:12.660

miles, local. You know, two miles of local. And, um, you know, when I took the, uh, road examination in Austin, and then the—the—the policemen,

00:39:15.740 - 00:39:27.060

uh, said, “Okay, drive. Go ahead.” I drive. And then—but—I—I—I need to try to remember, if you met red light, stop. If green, do something.

00:39:27.380 - 00:39:40.610

I try to remember what I learn from the book, you know? Yeah. And then, there is a green light here, and he said, “Turn right.” I start to think, do I need to stop before I turn right?

00:39:41.120 - 00:39:54.860

Or I should go ahead turn right. And there I—I told myself to be safe, stop first. So I stopped at a green light, and there is just, you know, the—the—the—the

00:39:54.860 - 00:40:08.410

police, he said, “Go, go, go!” And then, I said—“Oh, go! Go! Turn right!” And then I failed. Kept failing the first. And then, he has a comment there stays, “Stop at the—at the

00:40:08.410 - 00:40:21.620

green light almost cause accident.” So and—and then, you know, I practice again, uh, you know, one more week. I need to get driver license in order for me to drive to Houston.

00:40:23.310 - 00:40:36.390

So—so I went there you know, actually—and after that, I tried to go through that test area, you know tried to make me familiar with that area. So my American

00:40:36.390 - 00:40:52.440

friends helped me, you know—helped me, you know, he sit behind—you know, besides me. And then I tried driving a lot, so I passed the second test. And, uh, you now, when I drove here and then I have a friend, uh, another Chinese

00:40:52.440 - 00:41:06.770

friend, a visiting scholar. He said, “Okay, Ji, I will go with you and, uh, I will help you.” So he— he sit, you know, on the—the vice driver, associate driver’s position, uh—position.

00:41:06.940 - 00:41:21.300

And then he said, “You just drive. I will tell you stop and turn.” And so then, you know, he just tell me. So I drove the highway, and, uh, after that did the same thing—it’s fine after I

00:41:21.300 - 00:41:33.510

drove that highway. And—and—and, uh, you know, that—that is, you know—actually, you know, before I—I—before left, you know, I told you that we

00:41:33.510 - 00:41:44.500

have several people who live together in that, uh, houses—those houses. And they all say—they all came to me to see off. Aww. And, uh, I spotted 2 .

00:41:45.380 - 00:41:56.620

I—and I start to be nervous, and then I don’t know. I couldn’t stop. You know, you know, the here. And—and then I told myself, I

00:41:56.620 - 00:42:10.570

need to go. I need to go. And then, I just go. All right, this way. Anyway, and actually, first semester study here, uh—actually, let me say it this way.

00:42:10.570 - 00:42:24.300

I don’t know whether I should say I was lucky or I was not lucky. Okay? The first day I went to orientation. So for international student, the international students office, they have orientation

00:42:24.350 - 00:42:36.780

for us. I went to the first station, and the—and the advisor, the international advisor, you know, a lady who was Debbie. You know, she was so nice.

00:42:36.780 - 00:42:50.600

And then she said, “Oh, you’re a PhD student?” I said, “Yes.” And, um—and then she said, “Oh! Our office, we bought several computers here. We asked your department chair to, uh, assign

00:42:50.770 - 00:43:06.220

an RA for us. He just didn’t do that. Can you be an RA? Can be an RA?” And uh, I said, “Well, I don’t know. What do you need me to do?” And then he started to, you know, he gave me those

00:43:06.220 - 00:43:19.250

materials and all those manuals, and the, you know, uh, CDs, those things. And then I said, “Let me go home and read that and then let you know whether I should do that or not.”

00:43:19.250 - 00:43:28.410

Actually, what I—I really meant is: I need to call my friend. Had in Austin another American friend. You know, he is very good.

00:43:28.480 - 00:43:35.460

He is very smart. And then I ask him. I said, “Well, I was offered an RA. Do you think should take that?

00:43:35.560 - 00:43:43.610

I never did this before. Uh, I just programing. You know? I—I’m very good at programming, but, uh, I never did administrative work before.

00:43:44.200 - 00:43:57.710

And, uh—and he said, “Go ahead! Take the job.” So I took the job, and then he said, “Just read the manual.” You know? the manual. So then I read the manual, follow the manual, and eventually—you know,

00:43:57.710 - 00:44:10.600

finally it turned out to be good actually. I met a lot of friends there because I worked in United— in, uh, international studies, office, you know, not only their staff, but also a lot of other international students there.

00:44:10.600 - 00:44:27.140

And I also got the opportunity to go Colorado, ski because of that international program. Wow. Oh, yeah, yeah. And, uh—so then I was hired there and started to work there 20 hours per

00:44:27.140 - 00:44:41.080

week. And—but then, you know, I registered for three classes, and, uh—and, uh, originally, you know, I register for like 60-something, you know, graduate course—in a low level, first level

00:44:41.080 - 00:44:57.280

graduate course like, uh, program language, Pascal, like data structure, those which I think I need. You know that I didn’t have much background, undergraduate background in—I do not have any. So then, you know, I just feel maybe it’s, you know—just

00:44:57.720 - 00:45:10.890

start from first graduate course. But then, one Chinese student came to me, said, “Oh you are new?” Said, “New big sister!” Because you know they are very—much younger than me.

00:45:11.450 - 00:45:26.440

There are about 22, 23, just graduated from university, was sent by Chinese government also as, uh—you know, um, uh, uh as a, you know—a student, you know, foreign student here, uh, sponsored by

00:45:26.470 - 00:45:41.510

Chinese government. So, they call me big sister. I was— let’s see that’s 1986—so I was almost 35—after 35—30—almost 36 years old, but they are much younger. Okay? They call me big sister.

00:45:41.770 - 00:45:56.550

Oh. So then we were together, three young kids plus me, so four Chinese, uh, students studying for PhD. And, um—and then he said, “What—what are you going to register?” I said, “I’m going

00:45:56.550 - 00:46:09.750

to register these three classes.” “No, no, no! These classes will not be counted as graduate credit. So these are for those people who needs to, you know, make up their backgrounds, you know?

00:46:10.020 - 00:46:21.140

And, uh, so those are not counted! So how many years are you going to stay here? And are you going to graduate as early as possible?” I said, “Sure. I want to.” So he said, “You

00:46:21.140 - 00:46:35.770

know, just write a report. Just request waive.” You know, he told me, you know, so I wrote. I said, “Well, I do not need to, uh, learn Pascal because I’ve already learned C. Like I do need to

00:46:35.770 - 00:46:53.490

take this because I have this background blah-blah-blah anyway.” So I wrote these and then all the four, you know 6-0 levels were waived, waived! And then I directly get into the, uh, you know, uh, credits hours, so I registered three classes,

00:46:54.860 - 00:47:08.640

which is database, uh, theory of computation, and, uh, theory of program languages like compiler. So those are three classes. So I took those three classes.

00:47:09.240 - 00:47:21.020

Then—oh, that's a big shock. When I was in China and then, teacher gives homework, and I almost can finish that in one night. So they give homework.

00:47:21.110 - 00:47:33.330

I finish. I forget it. And—but here, those homework. When you got the homework, you don't know what to do! Say, what happened this homework?

00:47:33.680 - 00:47:44.430

So, and like 7 questions, and, uh, I do not know answer for any of these 7 questions! So, oh goodness!

00:47:45.010 - 00:47:55.950

I would, you know—I would turn in a blank sheet —answer sheet! And, uh, you know, I just—oh, you know, I started to ask other classmates. Say, "How do you feel?

00:47:56.040 - 00:48:09.430

How do you feel?" And, uh—and the teacher give a homework assignment, a—the—a programming assignment. The teacher, first—first class, the teacher give the, uh—the language teacher, uh,

00:48:10.860 - 00:48:24.090

said—you know theory of computation gives seven questions. Okay, uh, the language teacher gives the first homework, do a big program for LLR, uh, LR or LR

00:48:25.040 - 00:48:38.980

compiler, okay, which should be at least 3,000 lines of code. And then he said, "I give you 2 weeks!" And also 5 theoretic questions, okay?

00:48:38.980 - 00:48:51.420

"I give 2 weeks." And then, database teacher said, “Well, I don't know your background. And then let's have our test in 2 weeks!" So therefore, you know, you started to be busy now.

00:48:52.240 - 00:49:05.050

You started to be busy! And I just feel, you know, I never want to, you know, study overnight before I came to United States because I always kind of like, uh, you know, try to be efficient.

00:49:05.760 - 00:49:16.950

So whenever I—- whenever—you know, for example, I—I get to the library, I always have my watch. Take watch off and put here. So, first 20 minutes, do this.

00:49:17.470 - 00:49:27.570

Next 20 minutes, do what. So then, every, like— so my progress will be counted in 20—20 minutes, something like this way. So, very efficient, I

00:49:27.630 - 00:49:38.460

feel. I feel that way. So, I slept a lot. I do not like to sleep late. So, usually, and—even now, I—I go to bed at 10 o'clock. But when I was a student in—

00:49:39.200 - 00:49:55.130

in China, I would like to go to bed at 8 o'clock, even! And, uh—but, the university enforce us to take the evening, you know, uh, evening study, you know, in our—uh,

00:49:57.270 - 00:50:10.290

so in our bedroom, you—we—we have—the university share all the—all those rooms, you know, and, until 9 o'clock. So, after 8 o'clock, I—I started to feel sleepy, and then I wait—wait

00:50:10.640 - 00:50:22.480

until, you know, I get 9 o'clock. I immediately hurried! When I get in to sleep, and then, my—you know, my roommates, they're still working and then chatting, and then, even though the

00:50:22.480 - 00:50:31.730

light was off. When the light was off, they started to wash. You know, you know, and they take baths or something like that. But I was always the first one, you know.

00:50:31.830 - 00:50:45.490

But after I came here, I—I just feel I couldn't finish. I said, "What happened?" And, uh, so that big compiler program. And, uh, I—two weeks

00:50:46.310 - 00:51:02.240

passed. I finished all the the—theoretical 5 questions, and, uh, I couldn't finish the—the, uh—I couldn't finish the program because I didn't know Pascal. So the teacher said, "Use Pascal to, you know, do this." I

00:51:02.360 - 00:51:15.120

asked the teacher, I said, "Well, uh, can—can I use C?" He said, "No! Pascal only!" You know, I feel strange. So now I'm teaching software engineering. When students ask me, "Which program language should we

00:51:15.120 - 00:51:29.230

use?" I say, "Whichever language you like to use." My class does not teach you program language. Instead, you know, you just need to implement a system, like this. Or—or if algorithm or intake, you just need to write program to implement that algorithm.

00:51:29.620 - 00:51:41.560

I don't care which language. But this teacher, Pascal. So I got within that two weeks, I need to learn Pascal, you know? And first, learn Pascal grammar, and make sure you

00:51:41.560 - 00:51:54.580

know the difference between Pascal and C, and then start to write program to test my, you know, understanding of that. And then— and, uh, anyway—but finally, I still couldn't finish. Almost did, but I couldn't finish.

00:51:55.720 - 00:52:12.680

So then, I submitted my, uh—my program. And, uh—and then—because then, I found database will have a test soon. Oh database has a test—had a—a database test.

00:52:13.330 - 00:52:27.760

The teacher give like a book. So this thick, big amount of questions! So then I— actually, database, I thought, you know, I was good at that. I thought I was good at that because,

00:52:28.690 - 00:52:39.540

uh, you know, even after I graduated from university in China, already guided students to do database management system. So I thought I was good. So I start to answer question, you know,

00:52:39.540 - 00:52:48.950

one after another. I didn't' stop. I didn't stop. I just keep answering question! But, that's the one I would pass. But that's 50 minutes class.

00:52:49.030 - 00:53:04.330

And then, when class was over, teacher said stop, and then I only finished about like 50%. So, I was so frustrated! So, you see, that program didn't finish and turn in and then the

00:53:04.330 - 00:53:17.880

test, I only finish 50%! And—and then, the teacher, second—second class, the—the database teacher said, "Did I ask too many questions?" Something like that.

00:53:18.290 - 00:53:30.890

And we all say, "Yes, you did!" I was so happy. Oh everyone said yes. And then, you know, the teacher started to say, "Well, the highest grade is a 64." I was so, you know, frustrated.

00:53:31.760 - 00:53:45.080

I said highest grade, definitely not me. I didn't finish. I only finish 50%, so I couldn't get the 64, definitely. And highest grade is 64. The lowest one is a 26.

00:53:45.400 - 00:53:56.120

The average is a 47. Okay, and, uh, I just feel so angry. I feel so sad. I finish less than 50%, okay?

00:53:56.380 - 00:54:14.970

And then, I got the sheet back, and then, I got a 38! And, uh I just feel kind of—when I was in China, and it seems, you know, among the students, I always top 1, top 2 student! And then now I become like, lost confidence, you

00:54:15.630 - 00:54:27.600

know? I don't know which way to go! I don't know how—why they could do so good! You know, and I just feel, you know, I really, you know, studied like this. So then, my friend, another Chinese,

00:54:27.600 - 00:54:41.230

the—the young kid, you know, he studied too. He said, "Big sister!" You know, just we two, you know, are in database class. "Big sister!" I said, "Yes?" And then, "How much did you get?" I

00:54:41.230 - 00:54:55.900

said, "Well, I didn't get a good grade." And, uh, "You definitely were better than me. You definitely!" I said, "How could? I got a 38." And he said, "I was the

00:54:55.900 - 00:55:04.190

lowest one, 26." He was a PhD student. I was a PhD student. I said, "How could you get a 26?

00:55:04.630 - 00:55:14.440

I told you to study for database! You want to work on, uh, compiler program." And, you know, he finished compiler program, so he didn't have the time

00:55:14.490 - 00:55:25.760

to study for, you know—for—for database. So he got the lowest one. And then, uh—and—and then, uh—and then he started to say, uh ….

00:55:26.120 - 00:55:38.470

I said, "How could? How could?” I thought I, you know, I—I—I—I thought usually when I was in China I compared with other classmates. You know, I can answer questions very fast, you know, comparing with others' speed.

00:55:39.050 - 00:55:54.410

And then he said, "Well, those classmates, they have old questions, old tests!" I said, "What does that mean?" They have the …. So they said …. They collected.

00:55:54.760 - 00:56:08.150

So this teacher, usually like to has—had a test bank! Okay, he picks some questions, and then let you answer. And then next time, he get on the

00:56:08.150 - 00:56:25.550

bank again. So then, you know, other classmates they know this teacher. They know this teacher. They started to collect all those old tests. And then try to answer those, you know, questions. So then, you know, when they read the questions, uh, you know—they read the

00:56:25.550 - 00:56:36.170

questions, they do not need to read all of them. They already know what kind of question the teacher ask. They started to answer! But for us, you know, for me, I got to read everything, and then make sure I

00:56:36.170 - 00:56:51.640

understand what the teacher asked, and then answer question. You know, you know then he said, "Well, starting from now on, I will try to collect old—old tests—old tests." So we all started to

00:56:51.760 - 00:57:06.670

collect. Anyway, we tried to ask other classmates, you know, to try to get … A—a—a—a—and then that teacher, you know—the second examination that the teacher give, and I—I actually, I

00:57:06.670 - 00:57:15.840

really prepared a lot, practiced a lot! And then I can do that very fast, very fast! And then that teacher came for the second examination. And he ask a question.

00:57:17.110 - 00:57:30.280

I found only 5 page, and every page a small question, and the difficulty is in the same level. You know, I just finish answering all the question.

00:57:30.280 - 00:57:43.530

Then check, check, check, I only spend 20 minutes. Whoa! And, uh I—I was so frustrated. I feel so sad. I just feel everyone get a 100, and then definitely I would fail this class.

00:57:43.720 - 00:57:56.040

So then I left after 20 minutes. I just, you know, left. And then my friend left in 25 minutes, and I waited for him. And then he said—I said, "What happened?

00:57:56.040 - 00:58:05.370

This teacher was crazy." And then everyone get 100. I said, "Why are those other classmates they're still hurry . They’re in classroom. They do not want to turn in?

00:58:05.690 - 00:58:18.090

They should have finish already!" You know, based on the previous, you know, experience, they should have finished already. And, uh, you know, then usually after that class, I need to go back to international studies office to work.

00:58:18.820 - 00:58:35.400

And every time, you know, I—I need to be hurried to go to work. But this is only time—this is only time I do not need to hurry because I have—still have 40 minutes to go. You know, I was so—you know, actually, I feel so sad.

00:58:35.660 - 00:58:47.920

And, uh, at that time, I already dropped the compiler class because I believe—you know, compiler, I just feel—I didn't finish. And, uh, database, I—I believe myself.

00:58:47.920 - 00:58:58.540

I think I can, you know—I can get better and better. And then I dropped compiler. I only have 2 classes left. You know, I said—I—I—I’m not supposed

00:58:58.540 - 00:59:08.420

to drop, actually. I didn't know, so I dropped. As an international student, I was not supposed. I should take 3 classes, at that time.

00:59:09.360 - 00:59:22.420

Now, I think policy changed, so you can take 2 classes, but not at that time. I didn't know. And then, they started to …. So then the teacher—I just, you know, feel so sad.

00:59:22.620 - 00:59:35.520

I said, "What happened?" I said, “The whole semester you have three classes, are all mess.” That 7 questions from theory of computation, uh, I couldn't finish all of them, and then I finished part of

00:59:35.550 - 00:59:47.550

them, and then several days after, I finished some more. You know, uh, I talked with other classmates, they said, "I’ve already finished 4." At that time I finished just 3. “I’ve already finished 5.” I finished 4.

00:59:47.550 - 00:59:59.520

For exam like this one, I always get behind, something like that. So I—I talked. But then, that class, fortunately—that class, finally I found out the way. Okay. So finally,

00:59:59.610 - 01:00:16.200

found a way. On the very last minute, I solved the last question, so I got first place on that one. Yeah because no one solved the last question except me and that question, a theoretic question. But, uh, I had another classmate who is Chinese,

01:00:16.330 - 01:00:28.400

very smart. He always believed that if no one else, you know—if he couldn't answer, no one else can answer. Okay? A question like that. And the last question he couldn't answer, so instead, he used a program.

01:00:28.860 - 01:00:39.290

He wrote—he wrote a program. But a program can only implement a heuristic algorithm. So, that's not what the teacher, you know, uh, expected.

01:00:39.500 - 01:00:52.250

So, he get in to like—the teacher give like three points for the first question, 10 points for the last question, something like that. So he got a 57 or something. Uh, I got, uh, the highest one.

01:00:52.580 - 01:01:07.060

Yeah, uh, the highest is 75; I got a 72 because I …. So that kind of question, if you are able to answer, you know it's correct. So, theoretic proof, you know, you know it's correct. Un—unless you—you really do not know the answer.

01:01:08.320 - 01:01:17.920

So that one is fine. Then the other one is fine. But, uh—but, uh, yeah, compiler I dropped. Okay, and then database—database, I didn't do good.

01:01:18.720 - 01:01:30.980

And the second examination, the teacher just didn't grade—didn't, you know, just, uh—we kept asking teacher. Teacher just say, "Uh, I was busy. I was too busy." So, you know, I was just, uh—whole semester!

01:01:31.210 - 01:01:39.940

You know, I was, you know, I don't know. I don't know, you know, which level I was at! You know, that's terrible! You know, if you know yourself, right?

01:01:40.270 - 01:01:52.920

If you know, that's good. I didn't know, and that teacher does not grade until about when we planned to, you know, prepare for the final examination. Okay, so I—I—I was, you know—feel

01:01:53.400 - 01:02:03.700

kinda—I didn't know, you know. I—I said, “Everyone get 98, and everyone get 100.” And then, until, uh, the time when we—I remember

01:02:04.490 - 01:02:15.460

that day, you know, we wait in library with my friend, younger—younger brother. He called me big sister. We have another Taiwanese classmate.

01:02:15.990 - 01:02:27.950

Uh, she was very nice person al—also, you know, because she— her husband is American, and then, they always ask us to—to go to their church, you know, something like that.

01:02:27.950 - 01:02:40.080

Yeah. And, uh, we 3 together, uh, reviewed together. And then, all of us get a big stack of the, you know, old tests. And, uh—and that day—and then she, you know, we—

01:02:40.430 - 01:02:49.740

we waited for her. And then she came late. And then we said, "Why you were late? We said we—we want to, you know meet at 3 o'clock." And she said, "Well, the,

01:02:50.950 - 01:03:04.240

uh—the database teacher has already had a grade graded." And I said, "Yes? Really?" Said, uh, "How did you get?" And she said she got 70-something. Said, "How could you get a 70?

01:03:04.240 - 01:03:13.360

I thought you get 90- something or 100 because the question is so easy!" You know? She said, "Well, I get a 70- something." And she is kind of like a B student.

01:03:14.080 - 01:03:27.530

And, uh—and I said, "Why?" And, uh, I feel strange she get a 70. And then, uh, we saw another classmate and we told to hurry to the teacher's, you know, office.

01:03:28.010 - 01:03:39.560

And, uh, then, we just hurry there. And we asked the teacher, said, "How much I got?" And then, I do not quite remember, anyway, I got like a 97 or something. My classmate a 96 or

01:03:39.560 - 01:03:55.130

something. And then, we started to—actually, 97, 96 is not good news for us because we need to ask how much others get. So we started to ask teacher, “So, how many, you know, others who got in the

01:03:55.210 - 01:04:04.630

90s. Uh, he said, uh, 3. I said, "Why? Why only 3 people who get in the 90s? And you only ask 5

01:04:04.630 - 01:04:17.400

questions. They are all easy question." And then, the teacher said, "Because, only you 3 answered the last question correctly." Because the last question he ask, you know,

01:04:17.400 - 01:04:29.240

database—is this database—are the—are all the tables of this database normalized? Okay, so the teacher, the old questions, he always give un-normalized

01:04:31.010 - 01:04:44.330

tables, and the student would answer, "No, not normalized." And then start—if not normalized, please normalize them. And then I saw those table, so very well normalized!

01:04:45.780 - 01:05:00.030

You know, I said, "Why the teacher ask this stupid question?" I just say, "Yes!" And then left. That’s why I only take—they only take me 20 minutes. But all the other students, they just said no!

01:05:00.560 - 01:05:15.540

They started to normalize, try to break the tables. They do two tables, and then that would be a horrible thing to do actually! Real normalizing cannot break. So then, you know—so then I got that, and then we were soon

01:05:15.600 - 01:05:31.950

released! And then I started to tell my, you know, classmates, "Okay, uh, at least this time—and uh—we get even.” Last time we didn't get a good score; they got a good! This time, we get a good score; they didn't get a good score!

01:05:32.350 - 01:05:46.230

And then—so then final examination, we got to do a good job. And then, my classmate started to—he said, uh, "Big Sister, I will—I will talk with the professor, ask him to give aggressive

01:05:46.280 - 01:06:01.940

questions!" So, "Don't give too easy questions. IT will not be able to distinguish between good student, and, uh, you know—and— and poor students" like this. And, uh, he did. And he did!

01:06:01.940 - 01:06:14.040

And the teacher gave another book— Oh no! —on the final examination because we practiced a lot, and then, we finished. We finish on time, and he—he finish on time.

01:06:14.140 - 01:06:28.080

So then finally we get—the teacher gives 3 A's. We 2 plus 1 more, Indian student I guess. Yeah. Wow. That's a—that's the first semester. But, actually the whole semester, I was not in a good

01:06:28.080 - 01:06:42.150

mood. You can—you can guess—you can guess that. Okay, that—actually, that compiler—you know, at the time, when I know I get a 38 on database, and then, my classmates, you know—

01:06:42.220 - 01:06:56.980

another classmate who didn't drop the compiler class, and he helped me to pick the homework I turned in. And he said, "Ji, all together—" Say, uh, "All together, about, uh, like 270."You know

01:06:57.530 - 01:07:14.420

270 in the—because I didn't finish the program, and, uh, uh, 270. But among these 270, and like 170 is for that 5 theoretical question,

01:07:15.110 - 01:07:29.440

which I answered correctly. So, I get all that 170 credits. And then, the program, only 100. And I didn't finish, so the teacher like deducted like 23 points.

01:07:29.960 - 01:07:42.120

So, I get a pretty high score! And then he told me—my class—classmates told me, "So, you get a pretty high score! You dropped? You should not drop!"

01:07:42.950 - 01:07:56.790

And, uh, you know, so, at that time, it's really a kind of like big, big mess for my first semester. I feel kind of like, uh—the database I thought I was very confident to get the low, almost the lowest score, you know?

01:07:57.080 - 01:08:11.760

The one I dropped I thought I could not do that. I dropped, and then, say, I got a pretty high score! Something like this. That's the first semester. But after first semester, and, uh, it seems to me

01:08:11.820 - 01:08:27.980

I started to be able to adjust myself better. Because first semester, like, you know—and also, I got in car accident also, first semester. Because when the person sold the car to me, and he told me, "You need to

01:08:27.980 - 01:08:41.380

change brake." I didn't know how important the brake is. And, uh, on a kind of a night—rain day, you know, I—I—I hit the car in front of me.

01:08:41.930 - 01:08:52.350

You know, I couldn't stop. And, uh, I didn't know. I thought that person just say, "Lady, what happened to you? My new car!" Something like this, which is really—

01:08:52.790 - 01:09:04.520

gentleman scared me! I said, "I'm sorry!" I said, "I'm sorry!" I kept saying, "I'm sorry!" And then, "Sorry will not work! Will not solve the problem!" And, uh—and then, he started to,

01:09:04.990 - 01:09:18.250

uh, ask for driver license from me, and, uh, uh, insurance card. And then, that's the first time, uh, I didn't know anything, I just give him everything. And then, he also write down his, you know,

01:09:18.250 - 01:09:31.460

driver license number and give that to me. And, uh, he said, "Well—and, uh—I am nice to you. I will not call police. Otherwise, you will get a ticket." And, uh, he didn't call police.

01:09:31.640 - 01:09:42.480

And then, you know, I—I just went—went home, and I drove home. And then, at that time, you know, I, uh—I lived far away from university. I lived in Gessner! Oh! That’s so …

01:09:42.510 - 01:10:00.320

Very far away. It's just because one of my friends in Austin, he own a house in—own a condo in Aus—in, uh, Gessner. Uh, he said, "Ji, I can rent you the—this, you know, condo with, uh, you know, cheaper money." At that time—because 1986, and, uh,

01:10:00.720 - 01:10:11.520

economy was down in Houston. The oil, the gas was like 60, 67 cents per gallon. Very cheap. And a lot of people get

01:10:11.590 - 01:10:21.890

laid off at that time. So then, he said, “You know, you can live." I just feel, “Oh, that' s good! I do not need to find an apartment myself!" So then I lived there. But, uh, then, you know, for me,

01:10:22.070 - 01:10:36.750

a new driver … so every day I need to drive. Every day, sometimes—I dare not to go highways, so I go local from Westheimer and drove a long time here. Wow. Was, um, was your family living with you at that point?

01:10:37.180 - 01:10:47.750

Like were they here your husband and son? No. No, at the time when I was—accident, no. At that time when I—that's first semester. My husband and my son came here at the about the end of second semester.

01:10:48.040 - 01:11:04.120

Oh. Okay. Yeah. Otherwise, I couldn't—I—I dare not to get them here. Actually—actually, I didn't plan to invite them come here that early. It's just because, you know, China changed the policy.

01:11:05.000 - 01:11:19.090

Mm-hmm. I work in international studies office. And, uh, uh, after the person from, uh, education section in Chinese Consulate here, Houston—and, uh, they had a meeting, uh, to talk with us.

01:11:19.630 - 01:11:32.280

Okay, so we went to, uh, uh, Houston room in University of Houston. And then they start to announce the new policy. Say, “Okay whoever want to come to U—um, a spouse want to come,

01:11:32.340 - 01:11:48.030

the child want to come, and then, the—the policy is open.” And then, after that, I just feel, well, I didn't have sponsor. And, uh, so, I always—I feel like I need to ask American sponsor, uh, in order for

01:11:48.030 - 01:11:59.730

me to—to let me husband come here. So, I didn't have money, how could I? So, I—I—I—I—I simply ignored that news. Uh, but then,

01:11:59.770 - 01:12:09.590

the—Debbie—so, Debbie? The—remember? The first stop I met her? Oh, yeah. Debbie came to my office, said, "Ji, and, uh, many Chinese students came to our office

01:12:09.590 - 01:12:19.130

today.” So the second day. “Came to our office today! Uh, said that they—they request their spouse to come to join—join them.

01:12:19.740 - 01:12:31.670

Why you do not want to do this way?" I said, "Well I do not have sponsor." And, uh, then, she said, "You have a job! You are an RA! You have a job! You can sponsor them!" I said, "Really?

01:12:31.930 - 01:12:45.610

I can sponsor them?" Say, "Yes, you can!" So—so then, they said, well, because, you know, I work there. So then they said, "Okay! So just tell me your—the name of your husband, birth date, and those things; then

01:12:45.610 - 01:12:57.240

we do, uh, IAP-66 form for you. And then you try to get a bank statement. How much money do you have in your bank?" I said, "I have about, uh, 10,000 dollars." Because at that time - you

01:12:57.240 - 01:13:09.670

know - my boss in Austin, and, uh, he was so nice, actually, to me. He said, "Well, you want to go to university, even though your government, you know, gave you some money, and, uh, I want to sponsor." So he gave me 6,000 dollars as scholarship.

01:13:11.380 - 01:13:18.920

So I have that money in the—in my bank. So I said, "Yeah, I have." "Oh, that's enough! That's enough!" Like this way. So then I got a bank

01:13:18.920 - 01:13:38.460

statement, and then he got, you know—she got me those IAP-66 form, those things. And then, I send to China, and my husband feels surprised! Because I never told him that I would invite them to come to United States. I said, "What happened?" They just feel, "What happened?!" They do not believe!

01:13:38.460 - 01:13:50.590

And then, I have later like explain to them. So they started to apply to come to United States. Wow. Yeah. How did you keep in contact with them while you were here? So you mean, after my graduation?

01:13:50.960 - 01:14:02.660

Yeah, um, ‘cause I know from some of my family's experiences that it's really hard to contact people from different like countries, like in the 80s and 90s. Like did you—were you at all able to call them? Or did you write letters? Okay. Oh yes! We are able.

01:14:03.210 - 01:14:09.990

But at that time, phone bill is too high. So, usually, we wrote letters. Ah. We wrote letters.

01:14:10.420 - 01:14:23.240

Yeah, yeah. We wrote letters. My husband collect, uh, stamps, so I—I bought those like, uh, 50 state, uh, animal stamps, those little set. So, I used those.

01:14:23.240 - 01:14:39.640

So he was so happy see he's able to, you know, collect those stamps. Yeah. So, for that period of time when they weren't in Houston yet, did you, um, find yourself, um, connecting with the other PhD students?

01:14:39.640 - 01:14:47.390

Or did you seek out the Asian community in Houston? Or how did you— I— —kind of like find resources or find your niche here? Okay, okay.

01:14:47.650 - 01:14:57.040

When I was a student— Mm-hmm. —every day, international studies office— Oh, okay. —classroom, home. Three points. Almost three points.

01:14:57.450 - 01:15:13.060

And, uh, the—the only time I could meet with other classmates, either in the classroom or in the—we have a kind of like a Chinese Student Scholarship Association in University of Houston,

01:15:13.710 - 01:15:24.270

okay? And then, sometimes they got a movie from Chinese Consulate. Oh, wow! They can show us the movie. And, uh, I almost—actually, when I was in China, I was a kind

01:15:24.270 - 01:15:37.710

of like a good student. Every day, I just studied because, you know—you know that I lost so many years, and I just feel that time is precious, and I love studying. You know, just try to use

01:15:37.710 - 01:15:50.380

the time to study. And, uh, I—I—I do not want to go, spend time to go to movies. So all my colleagues and my friends, they all know. They say, "Okay, bye bye, Ji!" And then,

01:15:50.380 - 01:16:02.970

"We go to movie!" They—they know I will stay, you know, uh, in my room and study or write letters to my parents. Like a Saturday night, always the day, always be the night for me to write letters.

01:16:03.450 - 01:16:16.440

So I wrote a lot of letters to communicate with my parents, my, you know, sister, brothers, and, uh, uh, friends. I did a lot of that. But the University of Houston, I think the only time I would be

01:16:16.440 - 01:16:29.540

able to meet all other Chinese, you know, people is when they show movie, you know? Oh, okay. Actually, I—I said I didn't go to movie when I was in China, but here, almost every movie I

01:16:29.600 - 01:16:42.230

went there. It's not because I love movie. Because I want to meet with other people. Uh, it's like, it kind of solved my problem of—of homesick. Mm-hmm. Yeah. Okay.

01:16:45.060 - 01:16:56.640

Wow. Um … And, uh, we didn't—yeah. I—I didn't get in—too involved. Actually, uh, at the time, about, uh, uh, graduation—that's, uh, hmm,

01:16:57.790 - 01:17:11.920

uh, at the time about, uh, graduation, that's about 1989. And, uh, uh, we do have some Chinese students there. They formed a, uh—a kind of association.

01:17:12.920 - 01:17:27.940

They formed individual association. And, uh—and, uh, they told me, but I didn't join them. I said I—I didn't have time. I noticed, um, since—since then you've joined some organizations in

01:17:27.940 - 01:17:41.770

Houston. That is true! After I—after I, you know, started to work, and, uh, Sam Houston State University. And, uh—I started to, you know, uh, participate as a volunteer and do

01:17:41.770 - 01:17:56.640

community work. And, uh, the first one is the Chinese—uh, Hua Xia Chinese School. Since at that time, actually, my husband also graduated from University of Houston. And, uh, hmm, he—

01:17:56.900 - 01:18:11.670

my husband is a little bit different from me. He's the kind of person—you know, he is a good student while he was in China, and, uh, okay student here. And, uh, uh, he loves, you

01:18:11.670 - 01:18:23.000

know—he is very open. He loves to do community work. Okay, he loves to do community work. So, therefore, our friends who know him, you know, uh—knows

01:18:23.080 - 01:18:32.520

his characteristic. He— you know—and then, they want to form, uh, a Chinese school because at that time already had some Chinese who worked.

01:18:33.150 - 01:18:46.680

Who—like me, you know, started to work in United States, and, uh, we have kids, uh, who did not have the opportunity to learn Chinese. So then, they want to have a Chinese school, and, uh, they ask my husband to join them.

01:18:47.240 - 01:19:01.270

So then they started to, you know, try to rent a, uh—the—actually the first time they rent a place in a middle—in an elementary school, I think. A—an elementary school, weekend, on

01:19:01.270 - 01:19:13.240

Saturday, Sunday. And then, uh, I was a volunteer there. Oh, okay. And, uh, well, a volunteer there. So then, we started that, uh, school, starting with about 86

01:19:13.650 - 01:19:26.250

Chinese student, or something, you know? It's kind of fun because, uh, the children, they stay Chinese. And then the adults, we can chat—chat each other, and, uh, then, you know,

01:19:26.330 - 01:19:38.010

communicate, and, uh, exchange those—uh, those interesting things together. Okay? Like, uh, how should we fill tax form, okay? How to do this?

01:19:38.150 - 01:19:46.630

How—you know, the insurance, car accident, how to solve those problem. You know, we can share each other. So then, I—I was a

01:19:46.630 - 01:20:05.710

volunteer there. And, then, pro—probably half a year after, and, uh, I got a call from a person who actually—who was the Vice President of Chinese Association of Profession, uh—Chinese Association of Professionals in Science and Technology, okay?

01:20:06.550 - 01:20:18.920

And he called me. He said, "I'm—you know, I'm ." I said, "Oh, I didn't know you!" "Yeah, I got your name from who and who." You know, another person, you know, we all work together in

01:20:18.920 - 01:20:30.700

Chinese—in Hua Xia Chinese School! And, uh, "I got your name from her! And then she recommend you to me," he say. And then, "We would like you to join, uh, this professional, you

01:20:30.700 - 01:20:46.960

know, association. And, uh, uh, we”—So they already, actually they form that association in 1992, but, uh, I didn't join until 1995. Okay, and then they said they—they have those activities, you know, they have

01:20:46.960 - 01:21:01.770

seminar. And, uh, then, you know he said, hmm, "How—" Um, he said, "Well, uh, the reason why I call you is because we have several board members, they either found a job in other city” because at

01:21:01.880 - 01:21:14.850

that time, we're just start to work here, and then, you know, people are not stable, okay, not stable. Sometimes work here for a couple of years, they found another job. And—and we also

01:21:14.850 - 01:21:33.490

have some other, you know, uh, people who decided to go back to China, uh, to work in China. So he said, "Well, several board left, and I would like to invite you into our board." And then I said, “No, no, no!” I—I never, you know, did anything on this

01:21:33.540 - 01:21:48.320

because in China, you know, it's like, I do not want to touch politics.” And, uh, so, I hate those politic-oriented meetings, those things. You know, I hate to do political study.

01:21:48.550 - 01:21:59.850

Uh, you know, I—I hate those things. So then I said, "No, no, no! I'm not good at any of these kind of thing!" And, uh, and—and I—I, you know—I turn him down, and then

01:21:59.850 - 01:22:13.010

he kept calling! He kept calling! You know, like finally, he ask his friend, you know—my friend - you know, from Chinese school, also called me, say, "Ji, just accept that! Just accept that!

01:22:13.100 - 01:22:24.210

You will be able to do a good job!" Something like that. You … definitely. So then I joined. I joined there and then I become a secretary general

01:22:25.130 - 01:22:39.100

in the board. Okay? Wow. Do some—you know, anyway, the meeting minutes. I do those minutes, those stuff, and, uh, do other things. But it actually—and, after that, I really

01:22:39.100 - 01:22:51.010

met a lot of friends, professional friends in that society. Wow. So I get heavily involved there, and, uh—and we had, uh—we actually organized several

01:22:51.010 - 01:23:06.890

international conferences, and, um, several international conferences. And, uh—and also we— we organize a lot of seminars for community every year. Okay. We had a picnic every year, and,

01:23:06.980 - 01:23:17.920

uh, annual conference every year, and many other things. And, uh, uh, met a lot of friends, also learned a lot from them. Yeah, I feel good. I feel really, really very good.

01:23:18.400 - 01:23:29.380

So now I still, you know, feel …. So those are friends, like friends forever. Yeah. Wow. Yeah, very good. That's great. Do you have any more questions?

01:23:29.380 - 01:23:41.830

Um, well, we were both kind of interested in you being a member of the Jeremy Lin and Yao Ming Fan Club. Yes! Oh! Oh, okay! Yao Ming, actually, I brought a book.

01:23:42.480 - 01:23:56.980

Oh! And, uh, actually, I myself then wrote a book, which tells all the stories. The one of the stories I told you about that, uh, uh, test—taking test thing is one of these articles in here

01:23:56.980 - 01:24:05.320

actually. MG and Oh, woah! Yeah. Let me see if I can find a picture with Yao Ming. Oh! Would you mind—would you mind if we took pictures of this to after the interview? Oh, sure!

01:24:05.780 - 01:24:14.580

No problem! Yeah. Let me see. Oh yeah! Oh cool! Here is, uh Yao Ming. Oh, there he is! There's me. Oh my gosh!

01:24:14.580 - 01:24:27.160

Yeah, there's Yao Ming, and there's his wife. Oh, really? Yes and these are all, uh, Yao Ming Fan Club founders. Wow! Founders. Yeah. So, you know—

01:24:27.160 - 01:24:39.400

So— —when—when Yao Ming was picked. You know, when—when—when we found Houston had the first pick. And then, Yao Ming was the first, uh, seed.

01:24:40.100 - 01:24:53.800

And then we started the, you know—we started to actually …. So the—the board president in Chinese School, you know, he—you know, he and us, you know—I

01:24:53.800 - 01:25:09.320

was at that time considered myself as representative of, uh, Chinese Association of Professionals. Mm-hmm. Okay? And then we have some others, uh, like, lets see. We have, uh, uh, U—uh, United, uh,

01:25:09.800 - 01:25:25.340

you know …. So he is, uh, uh, lets see. Uh, this is a, uh, uh, Chinese, uh, , uh, Basketball Association. President of Chinese Basketball Association. Oh, okay. This is the Sino-US Professional Association.

01:25:27.470 - 01:25:40.240

Okay? And, uh—and then we have—this is the, uh, alumni association. So, United—actually, so all the, you know, uh, China

01:25:40.240 - 01:25:56.030

universities alumni association, he's the president. Okay, we have, you know, they—almost everyone of them …. See, he, you know—he's the board director, uh, chairman of Chinese School. Oh, okay. Hua Xia Chinese School.

01:25:56.570 - 01:26:09.650

So then almost every of us represent a very much like a—a head of one association. Okay, we all get together, have a meeting, and especially, you know, we all get together and had a meeting at the Chinese school.

01:26:10.540 - 01:26:23.430

Wow. And then we said, "Well, and we need to, uh, ask Rockets to pick Yao Ming!" Because the Rockets got the first pick! Mm-hmm. You know, we need to ask Rockets to get Yao Ming.

01:26:23.840 - 01:26:37.100

So we had the videos, uh, of Chinese students, you know, so they say, uh—they say, "Rockets, please pick Yao Ming!" Oh! And, uh, they say, "Yao Ming, please come to Houston!

01:26:37.100 - 01:26:47.630

We'll welcome you!" Something like that. Oh. So we had a video. We had a video. And then we have that video, give that to Rudy. And so Rudy brought that to Shanghai.

01:26:48.900 - 01:27:01.940

And, uh, so, since Rudy team went to Shanghai to try to talk with Yao Ming, right? You know, to try to get him. And then—so, uh, actually at that time, Yao Ming has not decided to come yet.

01:27:02.920 - 01:27:13.600

We already had this Yao Ming Fan Club. We already had this Yao Ming Fan Club. Wow. Wow. We said, "Well, and, uh, we want to have, uh, you know, his fan club." So then—and, after

01:27:13.600 - 01:27:26.690

he came here, on the first, um—first game, we organized about 1500 Chinese people. Wow. Yeah, we sold that many tickets. Wow. Yeah. We sold that many tickets.

01:27:27.220 - 01:27:43.710

And, uh—and then after that, you know, we tried to, you know, periodically organize Chinese people, fans, to, uh, watch the, uh, game—watch a game. And then in, um—and then in the, uh,

01:27:44.330 - 01:27:58.960

Chinese, uh—but not the Chinese—the New Year Eve, so December 31st, New Year Eve because at that time, it's been several months, right? From, uh— from the start, and we sold a lot of tickets, you know, for Rockets.

01:27:59.360 - 01:28:11.980

So definitely Rockets like us very much! So then we started to talk with the Rockets. We say, "We want to have a picture with Yao Ming." And then, uh—and then we had a deal that said, “Okay so not

01:28:11.980 - 01:28:25.950

only we will let you to have a, uh—have picture with Yao Ming, and—but also—so, and, uh, all your founders, everyone, we will give you, uh from, uh, Yao Ming and whole Rocket team

01:28:25.950 - 01:28:43.200

signature ball, basketball.” So I have a basketball in my house. Wow. I have a ball. Yeah. Uh, so, yeah we organized a lot of—we had a meeting with— Cool. —Yao Ming, and, uh—and then after Yao Ming left,

01:28:43.950 - 01:29:01.350

and, uh, uh, Jeremy—Jeremy Lin came, and then this club then become Lin's Club. Lin's Club, yeah. That's great. I guess I just have one more question that's kind of—like, how have you

01:29:01.780 - 01:29:15.120

maintain—you've already mentioned kind of some of this with the—the community you built here and everything. But I guess how do you maintain your ties to your culture here while being so far away from China?

01:29:15.120 - 01:29:27.790

I know you have, um— there's a strong community of immigrants here, but … Oh, okay. Oh, yes, yes. Actually Chinese community, um, we try to—so I say number one we have Chinese school, and, uh, teaches Chinese kids, you know.

01:29:28.340 - 01:29:44.940

So now Chinese school not only have—most of them still, you know, Chinese, you know, uh, children, uh, kids, but also we have some American there to learn Chinese also. Oh, cool. Yeah, and, uh—and then also, you know, a big thing in

01:29:44.940 - 01:29:59.160

China is, uh, the Spring Festival. Oh, okay! A Spring Festival, which is very much like a Christmas here. Okay? In Spring Festival, we always have big celebration.

01:29:59.890 - 01:30:14.080

So, uh, uh, like, um, Spring Festival. I am also a board member of Jiangsu, uh, Association. Jiangsu Association is formed by all those, um, people who

01:30:14.080 - 01:30:22.900

came from Jiangsu. Either you were born from Jiangsu—it's just like a state, Texas state. Jiangsu is one province. Mm-hmm. Okay. Yeah.

01:30:22.900 - 01:30:40.400

Uh, was born from Jiangsu or you studied in Jiangsu, University Jiangsu, or you worked in Jiangsu before, and all those people can join this association. Wow. So this association, and, uh, we just started a couple of years ago. Uh, every year, Spring

01:30:40.400 - 01:30:56.010

Festival, we have a big dinner together. Uh, this year, we have about 500 people together to celebrate. Wow. We sing Chinese songs and have dancing, Chinese dancing. We have lion dancing.

01:30:56.980 - 01:31:08.010

All those things. Wow. Yes. And, uh, hmm, yeah. Yeah. Actually, Chinese—you k now, we call Chinese New Year, Lunar New Year. We call Chinese New Year.

01:31:08.450 - 01:31:23.490

So in Chinatown, there were a lot of—a lot of activities there. Yeah, almost every association, you know, try to have a get together, yeah, to celebrate. Oh, okay. Yeah, our alumni association—the university I graduated from,

01:31:23.490 - 01:31:43.380

Huazhong University—our alumni association this year, we had, uh, you know—we did the dumpling egg rolls by ourself. And we cook some, you know, uh, vegetables which you are not able to buy in—even—even Chinatown because we planted ourselves.

01:31:44.680 - 01:31:56.520

Oh. Wow. So, only—you know, actually only that area, you know, can plant. I don't know why Houston is so good. The—the climate is so good we can plant that. And on that day, every,

01:31:56.940 - 01:32:10.020

you know—every alumni whoever plant that bring that vegetable there. We cook together. Wow. Yeah, we cook together. We have— this year, we have about 200 people showed up— Wow. —just from same university.

01:32:10.330 - 01:32:24.240

Wow. Same university, and with, you know, 200 people, including kids. Yeah. Maybe probably, 150 adults and, uh, 50 kids. You know. Wow, that's great.

01:32:24.240 - 01:32:37.370

Yeah. That's a big thing. And every year—uh, every time in Spring Festival, they usually—every family—so we will call—call our family in China. Uh, my parents passed

01:32:37.370 - 01:32:52.780

away, so now I will call my brother, sister. My son in China, he will call me, okay? Oh! My son works in Shanghai in China, and he will call me. That's a kind of Chinese, uh, you know, uh, tradition that,

01:32:53.300 - 01:33:09.330

uh, like, uh, lower level, uh, uh, the children, should call their parents, uh, uh, greeting them, and then, you know, say some good thing like, uh, "long live," like, uh, "Be healthy, strong," and "Everything is

01:33:09.330 - 01:33:25.670

smooth.” Uh, something—"happiness," uh, say these things to their parents, grandparents. Oh, okay. Yeah, so every time during Spring Festival, and, uh, we all found that that line is busy calling China. Wow. Yeah, line is busy.

01:33:27.160 - 01:33:37.600

Wow. Go through that way, yeah. Wow. Do you have anything else? I have no more questions. Okay, yeah, that—that was really interesting! Thank you so much! No problem, you're welcome!

01:33:39.120 - 01:33:46.000

Um, yeah, I guess we just need, um, to take a picture. Oh, yeah. Okay, sure. Oh, we can take a picture of this book.