Jie Willey oral history interview

Okay, so today is July 9, 2019. And we are here interviewing, uh, Mrs. Willey. My name is Chelsey Wen, and this is Angela Hui.

Nice meeting you. So let’s start off with, uh, when and where were you born? Okay. So I was born 1957 in the city of Hangzhou, China. Hangzhou is about a hundred miles south

of Shanghai. And, um, it’s a city with 6.2 million people, sort of double size of Houston. Yeah. Uh, so can you tell us about your family? Um, do you have any siblings, uh, your parents’ job?

Sure. So I have a one brother, who is two and half years older than me. And uh my parents both were professors in Zhejiang University. My father was a profess—professor and genetic scientist in the, uh,

Zhejiang University Agriculture and Biotechnology—College of uh Biotechnology. And my mother was a professor in medicine in Zhejiang University also. Uh, has your family lived in Hangzhou for many generations?

Yes. So my mother actually was third or fourth generation in Hangzhou, so—but my father, they were from the same province, but my father was not from Hangzhou. And, um, if you want to hear their

story, that’s kind of interesting too, I would love to share with you. So they were, um, middle school, uh, classmates. But my mother was beautiful and always number one in the class.

My dad was little bit behind her. And—but they didn’t do any, didn’t date or anything, but uh um and then they went um separate way.

And during the uh Japanese invasion, so they all went—all the universities went to the um inner part of China. So they all went to different places. And, uh, so my mother went to medical school.

My father went to Zhejiang University. My mother’s medical school is in Shanghai. At that time Shanghai medical school was moved to Sichuan Province. So, so they were not, um, you know, didn’t see each other for a long time.

And then eventually, uh, so my— my mother graduated from medical school and she was offered a job in Shanghai. And my—my dad graduated from, uh, school and was offered a position in Zhejiang

University. And, uh, since my mother, you know, was from Hangzhou but she lived in Shanghai at that time. But my mo—uh, my father, uh, you know, was teaching in the university in Hangzhou.

So they got together again, and then my mother moved back from Shanghai to Hangzhou. So then they got married. Wow. So had they thought about each other or remembered each other when they weren’t—

Oh, yeah, they, they, they, they have a lot of stories. Growing up, they talk a lot about their college stories, uh uh, middle school stories, so the saying was, because my mother was very beautiful ,

um if you speak Chinese, they call it “癞蛤蟆想吃天鹅肉”—that means my mother was the swan, my— my dad was the frog. So the frog tried to get this, get the swan, like, a lot of

difference, right? So that the story between their romance but, uh you know, they married for many, many years. Fifty, uh, my

father passed away when he was eighty, so they, they married, married um yeah almost, you know, fifty- some years. Uh, how—how would you say your parents raised you? And like what expectations did they have of

you and of your brother? You know, it’s very interesting, it’s quite different growing up um in the sixties. Because, um, at that time we didn’t have a lot of resources, not like, no TV, no,

no cell phone, no—I mean, no telephone. And, uh, so all we did was go to school and, and study. And my parents didn’t have to tell us, you need to study. And then another thing I have to say, because we grew up on the university campus,

because as a— at that time, the university offered um housing to their faculty members. So the house we, they lived in, when we moved in, I was one month old.

And, uh, we still have this house. So it’s a sixty—over sixty years old. This house is still ours. But anyway, um, so the university offered the

housing to the faculty members. So we grew up on a—on the university campus. So the life was so much better than the people live in different parts of the country,

and, uh, great environment because you’re associated with professors and students, so, um, so life was pretty good , you know, until, um, the Cultural Revolution.

That changed everything. Mmhm. So how—how did the Cultural Revolution affect your childhood and your life? Oh, that’s a lot. So Cultural Revolution started in 1966, so I was nine years old.

And, uh, um I have lots of memories, even though I was only nine years old, but there were so many memories. Uh, it was chaotic, and the school um so I was in elementary school,

and school was still going on, but we didn’t talk much. The, uh, the things they taught is very much Communist-related. Like “Long live Chairman Mao,” “Long live Communist Party,” you know, that kind of slogans.

It’s not really learning a lot, say, math— yeah we have math, we have—no English, we math, we have Chinese, and maybe some biology, not not much. And, um, since I grew up on the university campus,

so, the—the Cultural Revolution, the people who are involved are students, the college students, actually, so they’re called the Red Guard, probably you have heard, the Red Guard, they are all students or teenagers, uh, high school or

college students. So being living on the campus, we see the Red Guard come to the, uh, professor’s house. And my neighbor, if you want to hear this story I can share with you, my neighbor, uh, a professor,

and, uh, you know, at that time, um in the sixties, professors’ home considers very high level, you know, compared to other people, so they have nice things, nice furniture, nice clothes, nice china, um books,

you know, and one day the, I remember, a group of Red Guard came to my neighbor, we live on the second floor, they live downstairs, came in like twenty of them.

They brought this iron, iron bar, you know, just banging on the furniture, break the, um, china, the plates and bowls, you know, the porcelain, the—these chinaware, and furniture,

and burned uh books, because he was professor he had a lot of books. So all the books took out and they burned them. So it was pretty bad. Uh I was very scared when we see that.

Oh my gosh, it would have happened to my parents. And uh fortunately, my—my father was still considered as a young generation compared to other older professors.

You know, he was in his forties. So the older professors, they were in, you know, it was pre—treated very badly. But—but my father, um, was a great classical music,

uh, lover, so he had a lot of, um, classical music record collection. You know at that time, you know, the records this big, now it’s coming back, right ?

So he has lots and lots of classical music collection, and that was considered capitalism, now that’s the thing that during Cultural Revolution wer—was not allowed. If people see you

have all these classical music, Beethoven, Mozart, oh, that’s uh capitalism. It’s going to be—you’ll be in trouble. So my father learned, and I, I saw—I, I, I witness, he took all the records, you know, the records

are breakable, right, he took out at the night, the outside the house, we have the road with the cement road, hard, and he break all these, the records break all of them. And then put it in the trash.

So so he will not have evidence that he was capitalism. And my fa—my mother, on the other hand, she was growing up from, uh, generations of doctors in her—

her father, her father’s father, they’re all medical doctors. So you know, she was very off from the family perspective. So she had a lot of good things, you know, the qipao, this beautiful long dress, Chinese

dresses, and jewelry, and a lot of good—that’s considered as capitalism. I remember one night she put the the jewelry in a little bag, I don’t know what kind of, kind of cloth kind of bag, and tied it up and put it in

the rain boots. Because, uh, in the rain boots—you know, the rain boot is tall, she put it in there and walked to the lake on the campus, we have a lake on the campus, and walked over there and dumped the

jewelry in the lake. So she was not the only one who did that. A lot of people on the campus did that. So uh years, years later, people discovered in the bottom of the lake, they found a lot of those bags

with jewelry, with, with, the precious things. Yeah. Uh, so at the—oh, sorry. At the time, uh, a lot of children and youth, because they were receiving this propaganda, they, you know, believed, um, in the

revolution, they agreed with it, so what was your experience? To me? Well, I was a little bit too young to understand. I was only ni—nine, ten years old.

And of course the students were doing this. I think they were brainwashed. They think, you’re a professor, and you’re teaching us the, uh, the material, they are all capitalism,

it needs to be, you know, taken away. So a lot, a lot of—a lot of— a lot of, um, professors actually was, were treated very, very brutal, very badly. Some, they, because we’re on the agricultural university, right, so we have a lot of

experimental pigs, cows, that’s where the, uh, um the animals on the campus, and they would send these professors to live with these uh animals.

Yeah. And one thing I remember, the uh the—the thing the uh pres—the president of the Agriculture and Biotechnology College, and, uh, um was dragged out from his house and put in the dunce’s hat, you

know, pointed, and paraded on the campus, very humiliating. And I remember that, because I went to see, it was very humiliating. And he and his wife could not tolerate the humiliation.

Actually one day went to the uh education center. On the top, it’s, there is a kind of flat, like a penthouse, kind of, it’s a flat, and the

the classroom is, you know, downstairs as a classroom. So he was able to climb up and jump out with his wife from that building. So we were still in um elementary school.

We just got off on the school. And they said, “Oh, President Xiao committed suicide.” We said, “Oh, let’s go see.” I mean, we are just kids, we are all on the university campus.

Our—the elementary school was on the campus. So, so we just went to see, and at that—when we got there, the bodies were removed, but the blood was still there.

Yeah. So every time I see that building, I thought, “Oh my gosh, this is just—it’s history.” You know, it’s history. Um so why did they usually target older professors instead of the younger ones? So the professors, because they have status, you know, they taught

more, and… uh don’t know. I think that’s, they have they have more money. Yeah. So in the—the Red Guard’s mind, they are more capitalism than the younger people.

So my dad actually was shadowed from this older professor, so he was still young, so so so actually, we—our house was not invaded by the Red Guard. But I observed

because, you know, it’s all on the campus, it’s all our neighbors. So, you know So when were your parents sent down the countryside? Um, and why? And what was that like?

Okay, so, um, starting 1966 when the uh Cultural Revolution started, the university were all closed, no students, and the, and the—they want to send all the professors to the farm, to be re-educated, because

they have too much knowledge. They need to be re-educated, to learn to be peasants, to understand how peasants work. You know, it’s—it’s really brainwash.

So, so my, because my mother was with the medical school, so she was sent to the farm—the countryside with her colleagues from medical school. And my dad was with the agricultural university, so—so—so

he was sent to—with his colleagues from from the agriculture university. So they were separated. And um so because we were still young, I have a

brother, and I—we were still young so we stayed at home and uh we were very fortunate to have a nanny. So my—my parents, you know, hired a nanny to look after us, and a lot of kids on the campus without

supervision. You can consider—I mean, people, you know, five kids, no no supervision, people fight, you know, just steal things, and it it was terrible. So we were very fortunate because my parents were able to

afford to hire a nanny to to look after us. Mmhm. And how old were you at that time? Um, I was, uh, ten, ten, eleven, yeah. And how long was that?

So, so my fa—my mother came home sooner. And she was diagnosed with breast cancer when she was on the farm. So um so 1968, and uh um she came back, she had breast cancer.

So she came back and uh had the surgery, had the treatment. So my father, at that time, he was still on the farm. But he was able to come back when my mother got the treatment.

And—but and when this done, and he went back. So he actually took advantage of this ten years, he was there for ten years. The reason is, you know, he’s a researcher. He was a researcher.

So actually it was pretty good, because he was away from the Red Guards, away from all this, you know, crazy things. And he did his research, when he was in the f—on the farm. He wrote, I think, five books on his research.

And um he enjoyed very much. In fact, my— so, my brother and I, we visited him, and his uh um it’s actually it’s not a farm—it is a farm in the countryside, but it’s orchard.

He is um genetic scientist and horticulture. So his specialties, the pears, peaches, you know, all these fruits. You know, they—I I don’t know exactly what he did.

I don’t understand it. But uh we went to visit. We had one summer we went, he had this huge watermelon, like this big. We had watermelon for breakfast, lunch, and dinner.

Just, just had a great time, and he enjoyed it. So he spent ten years there until uh university reopened. So all the professors came back to teach again. So he took advantage—advantage, and he did a lot

of research and publications. Of course at that time you could not publish. But he was able to collect all the data and put together and um later on, you know, publish.

Um, so, at what age were you sent down? I was seventeen. So uh the story was, at that time, each family only has um—only can keep one child uh in the city.

The rest of the children have to go to the farm. That’s the policy. If you don’t go, you were—you don’t have any privilege of—I mean, when I went the school was not even—the university

was not even open, and not privilege for job, I mean, just nothing. So only between my brother and I , we actually had a family meeting, by the time he graduated from high school, and I was

still um—high school is only two years, so I was third, third, junior high. And, uh, so we had a family meeting, decided who should go to the farm, to be, you know, I

mean, this thing we have to do. And uh so my parents decided that—to keep him first. The reason was, they were hoping in two years, because I’m two years younger than him, and in two years the situation may change.

And by that time, I probably didn’t have to go the farm. So they kept him in the city. So he actually became a substitute teacher in uh

middle school, goo—good for him. And then two years later, when I graduated from high school, the situation did not change. So I was sent

to the farm. To the countryside, yeah. It was a very emotional moment, going, in a way, like, “Oh I’m getting away from my parents,” right? But in a way, we really did not know what to expect.

I think a lot of people feared that, okay, we are going to the countryside and will probably never come back. At that time we heard a lot of stories, especially girls went to the countryside and then they get married with the farmers and they never return to the city.

A lot of—a lot of people, you know, had that kind of experience. But anyway, I went. Yeah. And you stayed with a host family.

How were you assigned the family? Did you know them already, or how did it work? No, we didn’t—so um so, so I went with um the uh university faculty members’ children.

We all actually, the group we all grew up together on the campus, so we were all sent to this commune. And um they assigned the host family like uh, you know, they think it has a little bit better supervision, so I was

assigned to um this family, they have one, two, three, four, like four, f—fou four kids, and um they were very nice to me. You know, I mean, couldn’t be nicer. But the funny thing is, I didn’t live with them.

I have a separate hut. Yeah, I don’t know if you saw my slides. The hut, it was still there. It’s uh the hut I

lived for four years when I was there. If it’s raining outside, I get the rain inside, I have to use the bucket to catch the water. There’s no running water. You have to go to the uh creek to fetch water every

morning. You know, get the water you carry back to the, to the hut. And, um, so the family was nice and they have a daughter and I still keep in touch with her after forty-some years. She um she was so

fascinated by the people from the city. You know, like, “Yeah, you’re from the city?” She would come to my room to see, you know, how the people from the city live. And um I play violin when I was young,

my parents gave me the opportunity to learn, I took lessons, so I took my violin to the farm. Oh, to her it was like something she never, you know, never saw. And I played for her. And she was kind of—very

open-minded, not like uh uh regular farmers. So she uh she loves come to my place, and always if they have nice food at home, she always ask me to eat with them. I ate with my host family only like three

months. And then I was on my own. Yeah. I would like to share with you about the hut. Okay. The hut is very small. Yeah, about a room of this size,

so it was cut in half. The first half is a little um it’s a kitchen. Basically you burn the wood to cook. And then you have a little hardwood bed.

So because the hut—the house does not have shingles, so you know, dust everything. So I have a piece of plastic on top of my mosquito net. I have a mosquito net.

That was a lifesaver for me. The reason is, at night, the rats come out. So I have a mosquito net. And on top of mosquito net, I have a plastic, a piece of plastic, to prevent the

dust. And at night you could hear the rats , they fighting. And they pee on top of my mosquito net. You can hear, I mean these rats are so

big. They just come in because the house is not well-built, a lot of holes. They just climb in and fight. But fortunately, because I work on the field all day, I was so tired and I went I just slept through

with the fights. At first I hear it and then I was just so tired I went to sleep. And my next door girl, she she was sixteen. She was—she didn’t even get her high school education.

She was middle school. So she went, she was sixteen. And and she was so scared. She would knock on the wall, “Jie, I’m so scared, the rats are fighting in my room, can I come to sleep with you?” I said, “Oh

yeah, please come.” I feel like, you know, I was seventeen and she was sixteen and I was like, I was like a big sister. So she would come and we share a bed like this big. Yeah, we really have a

lot of good—I mean, a lot of interesting memories, now I think about it was like, what an experience. Not everybody has that kind of experience. Yeah, so that was the fun part.

I mean, not the fun part, it—it’s very different. Yeah. So, day to day, did you feel like you were suffering and like you missed home? Or did you get used to it? Of course I missed home.

I missed uh living in a much better condition. You know, because we have a home and a nice bed, you know, we have a stove to cook. There you have to burn the, uh, the firewood

to cook. And sometimes, I was like forget it, I don’t want to do it. Just like you’re in school, you don’t want to cook for yourself. But you know, in working on the field is very, very labor-intense. And you’re

you’re hungry. So basically just eat the rice. Oh, I have a little um burner that my mother insisted I take— I take with me to the farm. You burn the um diesel.

I don’t know if you have ever seen those, probably not. And you burn the diesel and the—then you can cook things. But not big, it’s like little burner, like this. And before I left home, and my mother said, “Take this, it will help you.”

I fought with her. I thought that was capitalism, I thought it was—the farmers don’t appreciate it, it was like I’m too sissy, you know, have something brought from the city and a burner to cook rice and

but my mother insisted. But finally I really appreciate I have that, it’s a very luxury item for me, you know, because I don’t, I don’t have to burn the wood to cook rice but yeah,

so that was kind of interesting. Another thing is, my mother gave me a watch. I said, “Oh, no, no, I cannot have a watch.” Going to the farm, you wear a watch? No way. No, I didn’t.

I didn’t—I refused that watch. Um, so, after you were in the countryside—or, I mean, when were you allowed to leave? And who decided that and were you reunited with your family?

Yeah, so um so I was there, oh I went there 1975. So 1977, uh, Mao Zedong died and Deng Xiaoping became in power. So he led the country and opened the universities.

So 1977, the university was reopened and but you have to have entrance exam to get into the university, right? And because I was in the farm, and um, so, I have to serve for two

years before I can—I can take the exam. So when they just open, I was not able to take the exam until 1979. And I had enough points working on the farm so they allow you to take, take the exam.

But you know, at that time, I was still during the day—I work on the farm, I fed pigs, I, you know, I plant rice, and harvest rice, and just do whatever the farmers do. And really didn’t have the time to really sit down and study.

And I didn’t have enough resource, the study material, to study. Because I was away from the city, right, in the farm. And whatever books I have I

studied. And um so 1979—and then actually, I was—I failed uh um entrance exam by one point to uh to be admitted to the medical school, just one point. But my score was high enough to be admitted to the uh

medical school to be an um teacher’s assistant. Not going to college, but you can work as a teacher’s assistant. So that’s where I came to the city. I was so happy. Oh my gosh, when I got um acceptance that

I can come to the city. I took very little time. I picked up a couple belongings, of course my violin, and gave away all my belongings to my—the the

host family’s daughter because she loves my stuff. Gave to her and took earliest bus possible came back to the city. And you know, unfortunately, when I came back to the city, I did not visit them

ever until thirty years later. Yeah. But anyway, so 1979 I came back to the medical school as a teacher’s assistant. So at the same time, I work during the day as a teacher’s assistant, and I—and they

offered the pre-med classes for us. We—we have like twenty-five of us, same situation, went to the farm, just one point away from the entrance um exam, I mean, acceptance. But, um, so they offered the pre-med

uh classes to us. So, so I took all the pre-med classes, but then I thought, “Well, I’m not going to be a doctor.” And it’s impossible, right? And uh so at that time, my brother was already uh uh he came as a

very first exchange student, one of the very first uh biosciences exchange students on the Casper scholarship. So she—he came and I was like “I—I’m stuck in China.” I wanted to learn, you know, so

but. So where did your brother go? Here, actually, in Houston, at Baylor. Yeah, so he came to Houston and and his wife also was among the exchange students and then so they

all in Houston at Baylor College of Medicine here. Um so my mother, you know, my parents told him, say, “Hey, you need to help your sister. You know, help him—oh, help her.” So that’s why I came, yeah.

And so that’s how you decided to come to Houston? Yeah, yeah, because you know, convenience, he was here. So that was um thirty-three years ago. A long time. Eighty uh 1986.

Okay. And did you know any English at that time? Very little, very little I remember went to, um, Foley’s, at that time there was a um department store called Foley’s. So I got here, I thought, “Oh my gosh, U.

S. is so beautiful,” especially, you know the skyscrapers when I came from the airport to come to downtown, well I never saw that in China, right, in in the eighties. I thought, oh my gosh, and the air was so fresh, and I

felt the freedom already. So I came and um not much English. I remember I went to Foley’s uh uh department store and one lady said uh,

“How are you?” I thought—you know, when we learned little bit of English it’s British English: “How do you do?” So, “How are you?” I—I don’t know, I had no idea. But but I always liked English.

So I picked up pretty quickly. And and um I remember when I came, a week later… my brother at home—when I came to uh Houston, I got sick, I had a fever, so I was sick.

I stayed at home, stayed with my brother. And uh a week later he brought a piece of newspaper. He said, “You know, in America, we all have to work.” Okay , I said, “Okay, and where do I go to work?”

He said, “You know, most of the students, they work in the restaurant, okay?” I said, “Okay,” so he got a newspaper, and they have a lot of advertisements for—looking for waitress. So I saw one, it’s called the

Lai Lai Dumpling House, which is still there in Chinatown. And so I called, the lady answered the phone who is the owner. The first thing, he’s from—she was from Taiwan.

She said, “Do you speak English?” I said, “Mm, little.” “Did you just come to the states?” I said, “Yes.” I think, I lied, you know I came only one week, I said, “About a month or so.” She said, “Yeah,

we need a waitress. Why don’t you call the other restaurant of mine?” She had she had two restaurants. I said, “Okay.” So I called the other restaurant, and a man answered the

phone. And because we—we we talked in Chinese, and he recognized my accent was from Shanghai, Hangzhou, from the southern part of China. He said, “Are you from Shanghai?” I said, “No, from Hangzhou.” He said, “Oh,

I’m from Shanghai. And, and and I went to Fudan University.” I said, “Oh”—have you heard of Fudan University? Yeah, you know? “I was a professor at Fudan University.

Now I—I’m a chef.” He said, “Life is very difficult in the U. S.” So he became a chef. And so I said, “Oh, my brother uh went

to—graduated from Fudan University in the biology department.” He said, “Oh, I graduated from bi— Fudan University biology department also.” So because of that connection, and he helped me. So he did not treat me very badly.

Because he knew I needed money to pay my school. So he said, “Yeah, if you go to other places, people will treat you very badly because you just came to the states, you don’t speak English, and um if you come here I, you know,

will help you because we all from mainland China.” Because at that time, in the eighties, not too many people from mainland China. Mostly people from Hong Kong or um Taiwan, Chinese people. So I went worked for, for him, and actually my English

improved when I was waiting, waiting the tables because I have to talk to customers in English, right? So that’s when I learned—practice my English, yeah. And were you living with your brother and his wife at that time?

Yeah, at that time, when they were here, so when I came a year, and they moved. They went to UCLA. And actually my uh my sister-in-law, they were married then, my sister-in-law got accepted for

postdoc um study at UCLA, and then later my brother did too, so they both moved. At that time, I was here for a year, and you know, uh working in the um um restaurant, and I went to school, and I studied

English as a Second Language, at the U of H, studied English as a Second Language. And and, you know, I started making some friends, not too many, but I feel a little bit comfortable, and I thought, you know, I’ve been living with them for a year, I don’t want to bother them

again. I needed to be independent. So they moved away, and um so I was here by myself. So I was working in the restaurant, going to school, basically. Yeah, and how difficult had it been to get a visa and to

come here? Uh y—yeah, it was hard. So I got acceptance actually at the pharmacy school at the U of H. U of H has very good pharmacy school.

But you know, now it’s very difficult to get accepted. But at that time I was able to—I took the uh TOEFL, which is the English exam for foreign students. And they accepted,

they gave me offer. So when I went to Chinese consulate, not Chinese—American consulate, tried to get a visa, and uh because my school um I think they start in August sometime.

And uh um I went to get the visa probably just a week or few days before school starts, and I got rejection. The first time, I got a rejection, and um said, “It’s too late for you to go

to school.” No, didn’t pass. And uh I applied again the next year, so, and I got—I came. Yeah. And so, you initially were going to go to pharmacy school, and then you

decided on nursing instead? Right. So what happened was uh going to pharmacy school was too difficult, too challenging for me, because my English was not good enough. And uh it was so hard, and then, you know, I have to work in

the, in the restaurant. I have to wait tables. And I just don’t have the time and don’t have the—financially, I cannot afford it. I came with a thousand dollars, right, and I paid my thousand dollars for my English as

a Second Language um class. It was gone. So that’s why I worked um in the uh um in the restaurant. And I also, I don’t know if you noticed, I also worked as uh um clean people’s house so. Yeah, so, talk

about pharmacy school, so, and then, my brother at that time said, “I think it will be too hard for you.” And because I have uh medical school prerequisites, all the pre-med classes, and I think it will be easy for

me to go to a nursing school. The—the whole reason go to nursing school was being selfish. Why? Because at that time the nursing shortage, it’s, it was already there, and uh so everybody say, “If you go to

nursing school, it will be easy to get a job, and you can get a green card.” And it was true. I am so glad I choose nursing, and I—that’s what I did, you know, I went in, and then I went to nursing school at

University of Texas, and I graduated, um, I went—right away, actually when I graduated I got probably ten offers from different hospitals, they all wanted nurses. And since I was doing um student extern at the

MD Anderson, I was still in school, and they have the uh program at MD Anderson, offer students as— not as intern, extern, and they pay you too, so it’s like twenty hours a week. So uh during my spare time I

worked in the hospital on the unit. And when I graduated from nursing school I worked on the same unit. They just hired me, they said, “Now you have license, now you can, you can work.” And so did you enter nursing school with a focus in oncology?

No, I—I did not know. At that time, you know, because I had to work very hard and I had to take all the, uh, my prerequisites in China didn’t count because they said it’s in Chinese, so I have to start from

beginning: um History 1 and 2, English 101—English 1 and 2, biology, microbiology, government, po—I mean, everything, I have, just like a college student.

So I have taken everything. And then um during my—I thought I would just get a two-year degree. Because I need a job, I cannot work on the—in the

restaurant for the rest of my time. I need a job, and I need a green card um so I was taking, um, phys—phys—anatomy and physiology during the summertime. And as a crash kind of class, condensed

uh Anatomy and Physiology 1 and 2 just during a few weeks in the summer. And the same time I was working in the restaurant. And I met um this American student, her name is Mary.

And she was going to nursing school also. So I told her, I said, “I’m finishing this prerequisite, I’m going to nursing just for associate degree.” And so—she said, “Jie, I think you should go

to UT, you need to check out the UT.” She said, “I got accepted at the University of Texas.” I said, “I never even heard UT nursing school.” So I checked that UT nursing school, and I applied, and they accepted me.

So after that summer I got accepted at UT. I really apprec—appreciate Mary’s suggestion. I’m so glad I met her and gave me totally different perspective. If I only had associate’s degree, I would not be where I

am now. So I went to UT, got my um bachelor’s first, and then working in the hospital. And then right away, I decided, I said, “I’m not”—that’s not what I wanted to do, as a bedside nurse. Because both my

parents, my brother, they’re all in the science, they’re all in the very, you know, extensive uh research, and I wanted to do something very, um, you know, more using my brain instead of bedside care. So I

went back to uh um school to get my master’s. So when I was doing my master’s and then I got offered to do the research as a research nurse. And uh so that’s what started my really profession—professional

career as a researcher. And so, what does, um, being a research nurse entail as opposed to being a different kind of researcher? Okay, so the research nurse is um, it’s very interesting, um

the—actually, the, um, our department chairman, Dr. Hortobagyi, he started research nursing as a profession, he started. He’s an—a former chairman of breast medical oncology at MD Anderson.

In the past, the researchers, clinical trials, that’s what we’re talking about, when you have a new drug, you have to be tested, preclinical animals, and preclinical safety and efficacy that they approve and can use for

human being. And when you treat the first time in human being you have to be monitored very closely. So in the past, the doctors were doing themselves, it’s very time consuming, very demanding.

And then they to—they ask the fellows, they are in training to do this type of work. But the fellows, they come for a year or two and they leave. But the—a clinical trial may not finish in two years, it may finish in three or four

years. So we need the continuity. And so Dr. Hortobagyi said, “This kind—type of work, a qualified nurse can do it.” So he started to hire two research nurses for his clinical trials and uh

gradually this—it’s become a profession, a very big-time profession. Yeah. So um all the new drugs, especially right now, immunotherapy, targeted therapies, and and test it on human being and

who—who conducts the research. It’s the research nurses. Yeah. So so I really love it, I love it. I thought oh my gosh I never thought I can do something very

productive and meaningful and rewarding, very rewarding. Especially when I see the drugs we are using, you know, so and so is receiving this drug. I say, you know, “At that time, I did clinical trial for this

drug.” See now everybody benefit from this dr—drug that was approved by FDA as used as standard of care in clinical research study. Right , and so when did you decide to go into oncology specifically?

And was that because of your mother’s experience? Yeah, it has um to do with it. So oncology actually was um by an accident. I was in nursing school,

and one of my uh schoolmates, and he was doing—it’s a man—and he was doing the um extern, student extern at the MD Anderson. And he knew I was a stu—foreign student, and he said, “Jie, you need to try.

They pay. So you don’t have to work in the restaurant.” They all know I work in the restaurant, right . I said, “Oh, really?” Twenty hours, it’s allowed. It’s actually legal. I worked in the restaurant, I was illegal to work—I was legal with my status because I have

student visa but I was not—I shouldn’t work in the restaurant, but I have to survive, right, so what did I do? I work in the restaurant. And then, so he introduced me to MD Anderson.

And uh I thought, “Wow, you know, what they do is very interesting.” And plus, my mother had breast cancer. So I thought that that’s what—and my mother uh u—is head of breast cancer, and he—she also was a colon

cancer researcher at the medical school, and she um invented a some kind of testing uh for early uh detection of colon cancer. Um so so, you know,

it’s all—some of the family influence, right. So I ended up at the MD Anderson for that one time, almost thirty years. I joined MD Anderson 1990.

Yeah. Um, and now you’re the Administrative Director of Protocol Research. What does that entail? Is that more of, like, management— Management, supervision, yeah. So I uh I became a research nurse, and was 1993,

and basically conducted the trials, hands-on, patient care, so for conducting clinical trial, we have to get consent from the patient, we explain to patients about the trial, and we monitor the patients and and contact them about

toxicities and review their scans to see if the drug works or not works. So we work very closely to the—to the physician. It’s a very hands on—and you know, dealing with the patients all the time. And then then I

became involved in the management role, because years of experience with the conducting the trial, so I oversee people who are conducting the trial now. And, um, as a director, so I um do a lot of things with—

we call it protocol research development. So if there is a drug uh it’s maybe there is an indication for breast cancer or certain type of breast cancer, and we—I will get together with the physicians and come

up with a plan, a proposal, how we can conduct the trial. So the so the ideas, most of the time the ideas are from the physicians. But the rest of the work—the physicians move on to do other things—I will

lead the team to do the rest of the things. So uh from um protocol development, from um consent forms for for patients, we make sure well—the patients are well-informed when they

participate in the clinical trial. And um I have to negotiate with the budget, with the sponsors, mainly pharmaceutical companies, and the contract and follow up with all regulatory details.

Because we want to make sure everything we do is um uh that means policy criteria, and good clinical practice. And so now you’ve co-authored many, many papers, given lots of presentations um

and you’ve even—you’ve gone back to China to give presentations on your research, right? Yes. What has that been like? And how did that opportunity come up? Okay, so um I start—China, at that time, didn’t go out.

So now, just just the last ten, fifteen years, China, the oncology field, they really took off ‘cause there were so many cancer patients, and MD Anderson is, you know, well known, so they start

to MD Anderson collaborate with us. And they thought, so somehow they found me because I can speak Chinese, especially for the nurses, and they love to come to me. And so I have, I have so many Chinese nursing exchange

uh visitors, because I—you know, I love people. So when they come I always, you know, very nicely explain to them how we practice here, so they can take back what we do here to to provide services to Chinese patients.

So and then I started, I think the first one was oh, a long time ago—07, I think was in Hangzhou, and uh um they want me to talk to them. At that time I was talking to them about the research, basically the role of

a research nurse. They had no concept, they don’t do research, I mean, that time they didn’t do research, there was no role of a research nurses. So it didn’t go too well, to me, I think it’s too new to them. And now, gradually, they have, um, more, uh, people are

involved in the clinical trials, and they have new drugs, even a lot of uh U. S. drugs, they are being tested in China. So the research nurses uh conducting

clinical trials, so they want the knowledge. So I would talk to them about how to conduct the clinical trials in in an oncology setting. Yeah. And at the—I spent eight and a half years

also at MD Anderson did palliative care which is uh um helping patients with their symptoms, dying patients, and which several years ago in China this was not—people don’t talk about death, okay.

A lot of the times they don’t even tell their family members that you have cancer. It was something that, “Oh, don’t let them know, if they find out, parents find out, they’re going to die, they’re going to crash,” you know, that kind of mentality. So I introduced the palliative care

concept to the Chinese nurses. So now they are really in—it’s a big, big, very hot field in China. Because they found a need for people.

I mean, we all die, right? Sooner or later we are all going to die. But how do you die? In the—we call it, good death or miserable death. In pain or in—in misery.

And we want people to have good quality of life. So I talked to them a lot about this, the uh quality of life and symptom management, and also clinical trial, conducting clinical trial. So how do you think your race or nationality, your, I don’t know, being an

immigrant, how do you think those have had an advantage or disadvantage in your work or career? Very interesting question. I never thought that I’m a Chinese, you know, in the work setting.

Because MD Anderson is very diverse. Like, just in our department, we don’t have—probably less than fifty percent of physicians are true American—true Americans. People from, in our department, we have

twenty-five, twenty-six faculty members, people from Turkey, Lebanon, Lebanese, Lebanon, Japan, Mexico, Colombia, India, I mean, just—just China, you know, everywhere.

Very interesting. And a very good question. Um, I think the disadvantage is sometimes I felt… two, one is probably language. Even I don’t think I have too much trouble.

But sometimes to express myself, I tend to be more reserved than a lot of Americans, they, you know, they talk whatever they think about, they can just talk. Usually I will

observe and think about it before I speak. So it’s not as engaging as other people in the meeting. But now I think I have more confidence because I know my field

and, um, I don’t mind to speak up. So race to me is not a big issue. I have not—but on the other hand I have heard a lot of people felt because they’re

Asian they felt like they are at a disadvantage. But I think that has to do with individual people, they—their language is not enough, their writing skill is not enough, and consequently people, you know,

probably look at them differently because they talk with a heavy accent. Um, so you're also the president of the Houston Chinese Nursing Association Oh, you were, yeah, um... How, oh I see, um, why—um, why do you think those

kinds of organizations are important, um, did you think about culturally sensitive or culturally specific medicine or treatment or...? Well, actually this organization started in, uh, 1992

by two ladies, they are from Taiwan. They are nurses. And they just want to help Chinese people, ’cause a lot of, um, Chinese people in the community, they don't speak English.

And in terms of medicine it’s even worse for them, you know, so we just want to help—help these peop—these people. So we do a lot of health fairs, um, to—to—invited these, uh, Chinese people come in to have, uh, um, let's see, blood sugar,

blood pressure or eye exam or hearing exam, uh, and, uh, other exams and EKGs so we do that once a year to help, um, the Chinese community. And, and one time they—they elected me as the, um, the president, and

because most members are from Taiwan, so when I joined I was the only person from Mainland China, and uh—I'm, you know, I don't mind, a lot of people they feel differently, uh, Taiwan versus Mainland and

I—I'm a very outgoing, so I— I don't put myself in the—in the position like, "Ah, I'm from Mainland and you're from Taiwan and we cannot get along." No, I get along with everyone, yeah.

So I have no problem, so that's why they—they elected me to be the president one year, um, so yeah, we did some fun things for the community. Yeah. Alright, turning it over to Chelsey now.

Okay. Um, could you talk about some of the projects that you did while you were president? Um, so mainly we did, um, in the summertime, a health fair, so this health fair started in 1992 when two ladies started when they have a few people come and, uh, um, so

a—and grow and in fact in the community people expect it, every summer, in August there is a—uh, um, health fair, so in the past we, we did, we used the, um, uh, somewhere in Chinatown, um,

some kind of center we used that—their facility and we invited the doctors and they all as—uh, Chinese doctors that can speak, um, Chinese, and we also invited, um, some—for instance, um, the,

um, the mammogram, we—at MD Anderson we have a mammogram, um, bus so we can—a mobile—so they will go to the community to do the mammograms for the people they cannot otherwise afford it, so we—we offered the

mammogram to them and with a much less, um, um, cost, and we also provide the, uh, pap smear, for these Chinese ladies so, uh, so I have to coordinate with a lot of people from my hospital, so the pap smear are

done by nurse practitioners, so we have a cancer prevention department at the MD Anderson, and they do pap smears, you know, all the time, so we—I invited some, um, uh, nurse practitioner. They come to do volunteer work, and, uh, so they

came, had a great time—everybody has a great—because we offer food, Chinese food to these non— non—uh Asian people they thought it was great. Yeah, so we do pap smear, mammogram, and

uh um so now we changed the... to do—kind of everything we focus on disease type, say last year I think we did for, uh, diabetes, so we focused on diabetes, so we offered, you know, lectures, education material,

and uh for uh prevention and or treat—diagnosis or treatment, and uh this year, I can't remember, I think it was, uh, ophthalmology, more like uh—'cause we have, uh, a lot of people are aging, so they have a lot

of problem with their eye, um, um, glaucoma and uh, um, some eye disease, so we, we trying to do different things. Yeah, and we also get together for fun, yeah, like celebrate Chinese new year and, uh,

bring the family together, so... Was it hard to balance, uh, being the president of this and also working your other job? Um, I have to say I'm not very qualified president because I did not spend a lot of time

'cause my job is very demanding. I'm really don't have time so it's only, like, a at night or on the weekends, I'm just like, “Okay, what do we need to do,” and—and like plan and things, but I—I'm not

like a devoted like, uh, some other people. Um, so you kind of mentioned how you were talking to people in China about end of life care um and that's a change in the medical community in China.

How do you think the medical field has changed in America? In America? In terms of... Uh, just what you've seen with your experience, anything you noticed. So to me, um, okay, talk about palliative care, alright.

So when I joined MD Anderson, we didn't have palliative care, so when patients, um, we—we—we don't have anything to offer them, basically, you know, let them dying at home.

At that time, I think the hospice started in early nineties or late eighties so a lot of people just going to hospice and die, and, uh, however, for the symptom management and I didn't even know 'cause patients, really, when they get in chemotherapy, they really have,

you know, a lot of symptoms, they're suffering a lot. They have a lot of fatigue, nausea, diarrhea, of course lost the hair, body image changed, a lot of symptoms, um, so back then in the early nineties, we really, I have to say, in

a really bad, we didn't pay attention to this part, we just, uh, "Oh, tumor is shrinking, tumor is shrinking, that's good, the drug is working, that's good." We didn't think about other part, the quality of life, the body

image, family dynamics, we didn't think about that, so in 1999 and uh um our former president Dr. Mendelsohn, John Mendelsohn, decided—said, “Cancer care without palliative care is not complete.”

Now I really, really appreciate what his, his vision was. Yes, you just give chemo chemo chemo chemo until they die. They don't have a quality of life, right? Why don't we inject supportive care at the

beginning of their fighting with cancer. 'Cause when they're starting treatment, they already have symptoms. Why do we take care of, you know, when you have symptoms we help you with pain, we—we help you with sleep, we help you with, uh, uh, diet

and weight loss and all that, so 1999 he said we help— we're going to have palliative care. So they did worldwide search, they found this doctor, Eduardo Bruera, and he was in Canada, and he pub—he was the pioneer, he is still a pioneer in palliative care, so they, uh,

recruited him, to MD Anderson 1999, and the—the so I joined him with—by accident 'cause I was still doing clinical trials and breast medical oncology. And I ran into a friend, and her name is Maria Sochi and she

said "Oh, Jie, I haven't seen you for a long time," and I say, "Yeah, how are you? Where are you?" She said, "I'm in palliative care." I said, "What, what is palliative care?" I didn't know what palliative care is. I—it, she said, "It's a new

department and Dr. John Mendelsohn wanted to have this department to help our patients and end of life and quality of life." I said, "Oh, sounds interesting," and she said, “You know what, they are looking for a

manager, I think you should apply." I said, "Ooh palliative care, I don't know anything about palliative care," because I did all breast cancer, right? So, I thought okay, now that you mention it, that's, uh, a promotion, right? So I went to interview with Dr.

Bruera, he interviewed me, he just went on for two hours, I never had an interview for so—a doctor spent two hours talking to me, and then he said, "Can you write? Can you write?" I said, "Well, I wrote a thesis for my graduate

school. That's all I wrote in English," you know, but he hired me, and uh so we worked together, we built this research team in the palliative care, and it was amazing experience.

We helped the patients, with their, you know, weight loss, with their sleep, and uh a lot of um assessment and uh just in pain, pain control, that's a big thing because ninety percent of cancer patients will have pain before they die.

So pain, and pain is not something pleasant, right. You cannot have pain, if you have little pain, it's miserable. So, f—helped a lot of pain patien—patients, and that department when I joined him we only had a very, like

three or four people. Now they have twenty-six, twenty-seven faculty members. The department's grown, so much. So I worked with him for eight and a half years.

And then the breast medical oncology department started a new program, and it focused on a very aggressive type of breast cancer, it's called inflammatory breast cancer. It happens to young women, and

uh people they are pregnant, people they are doing nursing, and of course old patients we have that too. So we—it started with thi—this young woman, her name is Morgan Welch, she went on honeymoon, discovered there was a mosquito bite on her breast, so she

thought it was, you know, mosquito bite and uh then I think two or three days later, the whole breast was swelling, hot to touch, and uh um the skin changed, so she shortened her honeymoon.

She went to um, she was from Florida, went to uh her doctor in Florida, and they did a biopsy, it was breast cancer, and it was a very rare type of breast cancer, it's inflammatory breast cancer, so they came to MD Anderson, and uh um

unfortunately she died at—when she was twenty-five. She was diagnosed at twenty-four. She died at twenty-five, and so her husband back then, her husband and the family, uh, said, you know, "Why

such young people die from this type of horrible breast cancer, is there anything that MD Anderson can do?" So at that time they uh the doctor who treated her was Christopher Nell and he was

very passionate about um he saw young people die from, you know, this type of cancer we can't help them so he um he convinced the state of Texas to get money, two million dollars a year to start this program

to help young people with this type of breast cancer, so he, he recruited me back to—he said "Jie, you need to come back and help me, to start this program." It was, uh, 2008, so I came back and

joined him, so we, yeah, this program has been elev— eleven years, still within, uh, in the breast medical oncology but we focused on this very aggressive, rare and aggressive type of breast cancer.

We do clinical trials, we help patients, yeah. Sorry, kinda . Oh, no, no that was interesting, um. That was great. Um, do you wanna ask twenty-eight? Um, okay, um, sure, um, how did you meet your husband?

Oh, that's interesting, yeah. I love to talk about this story. So I was a, I told you I waited tables, right? So in the Chinese restaurant and in memorial area and

uh um so they have a lot of local people come to eat, and uh so he was among, you know, a customer, he basically was my customer, and uh um I—I know he—he—he has wife, at the time he had a wife, he had kids they all come to the

restaurant to eat, and, uh, I also know his wife got cancer, um pancreatic cancer, and was treated at MD Anderson. And then I think, um at—one time she went to Dallas for liver transplant, and when they opened up,

everything was so metastasized that they just closed up, and so she passed away within a year, so she passed away, um, so I know who he i—he was and I did not know his name, and uh uh what he does, I—I

didn't—'cause I, you know, and then later on he asked me, he said, "Well you—you should see on my credit card, I—I have a name on my credit card." I said, "You know, I don't look at the people's name, I just see how much tips you put on." But anyway, make a long story short, and when I, you

know, was waiting the tables, going to school, and then got accepted at the MD Anderson so the last night I was at the restaurant 'cause the following week I was starting work at MD Anderson and he came in, sit

at the bar, and uh so the owner, at that night it was not busy at all, the owner said "Well Jie, why don't you mix, uh, mix some hot sauce for—his name is Hugh—for Hugh for his dumplings." Okay, you know you

eat the dumplings so you make this hot sauce so I was making hot sauce and and uh I was talking to him, I say, "Oh, I am so happy!" I said, "This—I got two more hours left working the restaurant. I'll be done. I will start working at MD Anderson." So he was like, "Oh, that's

wonderful." He—he gave me his business card. He said, you know, at the time um his wife was still living, but was in the hospital, that's why he came to the restaurant to eat by himself.

He said, "Oh," he said, "keep—keep us informed, you know, your progress in school and uh and best of luck with your school everything." So just bye bye, you know, after work, so it’s done. So I just, I didn't see him until, um, a year or so later.

His wife passed away so he brought all of the MD Anderson films and slides everything back to MD Anderson and I ran into him in the cafeteria so we met again and then he was like,

"Oh you probably heard, you know, Ginger passed away," his wife passed away. And I said "No, I didn't, I was—I'm so sorry," you know , um so he asked me if, uh, if my parents were here, where

were—will I take them to a Chinese restaurant besides Lost China, that's the place we met, you know, where I worked, uh so I told him somewhere in Chinatown. So we went out a couple times and uh, you know, one thing after another we got married in

1993 and we have a daughter together, yeah. So and he—uh he's a lawyer he's oil and gas la— lawyer in Houston, yeah, yeah so we married twenty-six—we just celebrated our our twenty-six years

anniversary. Mhm. Um, so how did having a child affect your work? Yeah, that's very, very interesting, so um, when we had the child and, uh, everybody thought I would

be a stay-home mom, would not go back to work, um, so before I went on maternity leave actually, my— my, uh, supervisor took my computer away, said "You're not going to come back," and, uh, so I was like,

"No, I'm coming back" and then, um, so raise child we at MD Anderson when you have a child, you— you have a three months, uh, maternity leave, so I stayed home for three months, I enjoyed every minute but towards the end, I felt like my brain was not

working 'cause you—everyday you go "coo coo" baby talking, right? "Oh you're so cute," oh, change diapers, feed, you know so I cannot do this for—and I enjoy every minute, I—I feel like I need a break I can't, you know, so uh,

three months end, so I went back to work. It was hard. It was difficult but, um, when—I managed somehow, uh, at first I had, uh,

fortunate that my parents came, you know, when—when, um, Julianne was born so they helped me for one year, and after a year, and I put her in daycare, uh and uh you know, dropped her off at daycare, come home pick her up, you know, taking her home, and take—take care of her, and

I'm sure your parents did the same thing right? Yeah, so it's doable, it—it—it is doable, I think um but to me it's a nice balance actually.

When you come home you can enjoy family life, and enjoy your child, and see her grow, and at work you still challenge yourself mentally, 'cause the three months stay home to me mentally was not challenging. I—'cause everyday you're doing "coo coo coo" things, you know so

yeah. Um, so in the PowerPoint, we can see that your husband is white. Um, did you find any surprises while raising a biracial child? Yeah, um, so okay so um at

first, first was married to uh a Caucasian man, um you have to adjust, 'cause my lifestyle, my background is very different from, I think—I did not grow up here, so the um I have to make a lot of adjustments, which I love it 'cause I,

to me, I learned. I learned American way of living, you know, and uh um a lot, I mean from very small things, like table manners, you know, and

cooking, of course, right, and the food, and he's very good, he knows more Chinese history than I do, so so so he likes uh um Chinese history, and he likes Chinese food, so make my life a lot easier.

And uh by raising a biracial child my daughter for some reason, uh, you know, when when she sees like Asian people, she's very close to them. When she sees Caucasian friends she's very close to Caucasian

friends, so she—she has very nice balance so actually most of her friends are Caucasians for some reason, and uh um but she did learn Chinese, not very well until fifth grade and it was

brutal to me because it was too stressful, so finally I said, "Forget it." I'm, I'm not gonna go through this. So she studied Chinese until fifth grade, she dropped, but when she was in college, she took Chinese.

I said, "Why you spend so much money in college and learn Chinese?" You can, could have learned it when you were young, so yeah, and uh another thing is um I think she has both um traits of, you know,

As—being Asian and um Caucasian, so when we go to China, she feels very comfortable, and um and she learned Chinese very quickly when you are immersed in this environment, and you pick up the Chinese very quickly.

So I don't know, do you all speak Chinese? I speak Chinese but not, not amazing. I don't think I know enough vocabulary. You do? You can write? I can write, mhm.

Read? Yes. Oh your mother, uh, I'm proud of your mother. Uh, I am a failure I, yeah, she—she refused, it was not very good, so, but then she understands some, especially when we go to

China, she she she was able to understand, yeah, yeah. Okay, um so when you were raising her do you think that uh you taught her a lot about your own history and being Chinese? Mhm. I tried to, but, you know, everytime when when she grew up

a little bit older like in high school, I tried to tell her what I have told you about my life, she would not want to listen, "Oh, I know, I know," said, "I know, I don't want to hear," that kind of attitude, so

I quit talking, and um so otherwise I think, you know, she is just like a, like you guys, you know, ordinary Americans, she thinks she's American. You know, and has uh Asian heritage,

yeah which is great, so in my household, I raised her, was not traditional Chinese, in a way, she may think so but I don't think. You know, I didn't put a lot on her. Um this class, that class, like math and

science and this this, 'cause I have to work, I don't have time and but one thing she did learn is playing the music, 'cause I played music, right, so I want her to play music, and um she started with a violin when she was like

four years old, it was horrible. She would take a, take a lesson, thirty minutes lesson, she would go to bathroom five times and she laid on the floor, and I was paying like a dollar each month, uh, each minute, right. She—she was

five times in bathroom and and then towards, I guess by the year, and the teacher fired her He said, he said, "Jie, I cannot teach your daughter" 'cause she would not listen, she would not practice, forget it.

And then a year later, she said, "Mom, I want to play piano." I said, "Okay, so you say you want to play piano." So I found her a piano teacher and uh the teacher uh is a Chinese. And, uh, so her method, uh, his method is very Chinese way, not like encouraging, it's always

criticizing, "This is not good, that's not good" to a point he had a little ruler and hit her. Okay, so I was outside, I did not know, and she was crying, came out so I said, "What's the matter?" "He hit me."

I said, "Oh," I said, "Well, it's not hit, just, you know," so she went home, she told her dad that the teacher, the piano teacher hit her. Oh, Dad was,

uh, had a fit, said, "No, we are not going to it, this piano teacher," so we quit, we didn't do it, and until the end of her third grade, she said she wanted to play cello, okay so I went to this violin shop to rent a small

cello, and I know the owner, and he was, "I loaned you a small violin and you quit, and I introduced your piano teacher, you quit, now you want to play cello, and if you quit cello I don't have anything to offer you, okay" but she stayed with cello from third—fourth

grade until high school, and she was very accomplished cello player, and she made all states, you know, four years at uh high school, and she was very proud of herself.

Even know, when in—in in high school to college you have to write essay and you know, paper she always used her cello experience in her writing, cause she learned a lot from that uh lesson and hardship, you know, you have to be very disciplined and um,

so she learned all that. Now she appreciates it but it was difficult, to a point, my husband wanted to break the cellos. "No more cello". Do you all have experience like that?

I played piano and guzheng. Guzheng, oh right. Did you, did your mom ha—have have to say, “Practice, practice,” or you just do your own? Oh, I mean I didn't want to but I did.

You did. She didn't have to force you, uh uh. No, there was—there was some forcing. There is practice right, you need to practice. Did you? Uh, I quit piano.

and I never went back, so... Mhm. Yeah, we all have experience. Um, you still play violin? Violin. Yes, yes and so, you know, I played violin when I was

young, even during the Cultural— towards the end of the, uh, in the—in the seventies, and a lot of people, they start to um, some of my parents' friends, their children, they're playing the violin, so I like, I like it, so

one of my father's student's husband, he can make violin, so he made violin, he made a small violin for me, so I started to play it, I took lessons until I, you know, uh, graduated from high school,

so I played, and then I didn't play for a long long time. And when—when, um, 2001, I was at MD Anderson, right, and at that time I didn't play, you know, for

uh twenty-some years, but I always liked it, uh, classical music, and um, uh, a lady from New York, she graduated from Juilliard as a conductor and, um, piano, and she con—she was conducting at the Princeton

University and her husband at that time, her first husband, and uh was a fellow, anesthesiology fellow at UT um here, medical school, so she came, and during the interview, with the uh department chairman at

anesthesiology department at—at, um, at UT and, uh, the chairman asked her, "So what do you do?" She said, "I'm a musician but I sell insurance in New York". Musicians don't make a lot of money,

right. So she was selling insurance so this this uh chairman, chair of the anesthesiology department said, "You know, we have a lot of talented people in the medical center, if you want to have an orchestra, I can

help you." 2001, at that time I think the, um, yeah, so I saw in the email, a flyer, and uh, I said, "Oh I haven't played for twenty-something years, you know, it would not be good." And one of my colleagues, uh um in the department, she plays, uh, violin also, she said, "Jie, you need to

try." I said, "No, I don't think I'm good enough." She said, "You can try." So I practiced a little, and I went to audition, and she hired me. Libby is my conductor, hired me.

So, yeah so next year will be our twentieth season, we even played in Carnegie Hall Yeah, um, in uh twenty—twenty yeah, 2013. We were invited to play in Carnegie Hall. It was a wonderful experience, yeah.

So I'm so glad I had my parents gave me the opportunity to learn, you know, an instrument, and uh um now I can still enjoy. Yeah. Um, so how did you find the motivation to pursue so many things in life? And do you think it's connected to, uh, being an immigrant?

Um I think it has to do with personality maybe. And I—I always enjoyed new things, you know, trying new things, and uh um y—motivation and I feel like I, you know, just work will be too boring, you

know after eight or ten hours, and I need something to rejuvenate, and music is one thing and helping people—I love to help people, and um, you know, involved with different activities in the community,

yeah that helps me I—and helping people is—is something I really enjoy, maybe because I'm a nurse and uh uh because I'm at MD Anderson, so I always get calls and 'cause my name is out there for clinical

trials and my name will show up, clinical trials at MD Anderson es—especially like breast cancer. My name will show up, so my phone number is there, my email, uh, email address is there, and I get calls from patients all the time, you know, they want to come to MD Anderson to

be uh treated so I always love to help them. And a lot of times with my spare time, especially the, uh, international patients from China, so they know, Jie loves to help patients, , they have a

question on oncology she will help you Yeah, so I think that helping patients really motiv—motivates me. I feel like I can offer some help, you know, and and will benefit, I mean just when people

are in need, you offer a little help, and will save so much energy, of from their part, and it makes it so much easier on their life, yeah. Um, could you talk about any times where you experienced fear or doubt

about yourself? Fear or doubt about myself. Uh, eh—back to the childhood, uh, I mean going to farm, that was the time, I felt like I'm stuck in the farm,

and I really cannot see the future, it would be like uh you know, i—it just spend my—the rest of my life on the farm, on the countryside and plant rice and fed pigs, that was the time and but I was still very young,

it's not like you don't look things very distance you look current, so and the when, you know, when I had the opportunity to come back, yeah. No, not really, I don't think, not really, I had time I feel like uh, you know,

depressed, or—or think about—I'm always a very positive person, you know, and I have to say I'm very self-confident, yeah. I think that's, that's one

thing I—I—I have a lot of confidence. I don't know if it's good or bad or maybe I'm—don't—I shouldn't have the confidence that I claim myself to have the confidence. But and I—I believe everything I

undertake to do, I do it, and I do a good job. A lot—lot of things, now I look back, um, in my position I'm a director for protocol research but in our program we have a lot of things way beyond just doing research.

We're helping patients, we are doing fundraising, to raise the money to help patients come here to uh get a treatment, 'cause it's expensive for treatment, right? Even uh not helping them with the drugs or anything, just

helping with the housing, with the parking, just a little help, so yeah so I chaired the uh um the fundraising uh team last year for MD Anderson, and actually I was the number one in the entire hospital, I raised

like twenty-eight thousand dollars by myself, yeah, so but there's one big donor 'cause I helped her and she gave me a lot of money and uh um so all this money come—coming to help, not—not

for me, it's for, for the program, and we help out patients. So, yeah, does that answer your question or kinda deviated a little bit? No, it's good, just wondering if you at any point in your career you felt any

problems or was it hard for you, obstacles... Really not well, um, I would not say obstacles, but challenges, lots of challenges, especially when I

was in palliative care, 'cause um, you know, doing research you always need the money, so when you get money it's from like NIH and NCI, National Cancer Institute, or um National Institute of Health to, uh,

apply for grant, so when I was working with Dr. Bruera, 'cause I'm a nurse, I'm not grant person and English is my second language, and writing a grant is very challenging to me, and uh but we did it,

somehow, and I worked very hard, and actually um did a lot of literature search, and put a proposal together and put everything what did the, the grant supposed to be and submit to NIH and we got three

R01 grants and almost five million dollars get from NCI, so I'm very proud of that but, but I have to say that work is very very challenging, 'cause it's not my forte and I have to learn how to do it.

So but I did it, you know. Um, were you or your family affected by Tiananmen—Tiananmen Square? No, actually not, 'cause I was already here and, um, my

parents were in, living in Hangzhou so they were far from—from Beijing so really not, um, at all. I saw when I was waiting tables, I saw the TV and I was like, “Oh my gosh, what's going on, I'm so glad I'm here.” You know, so I—I was

not affected by um uh Tiananmen Square event. So how long did your… or did they continue living in China? Yes, so they um, you know, brother came here like nine, uh

1982, 1982, I came 1986, and they, um, they were professors, so they were continue living in the same house and with—teaching until they retired, and uh um so my father passed

away when he was eighty, in 2002, and my mother passed away 2013, so after my father passed away I, um, applied my mother to have the Green Card and so she moved

here. So she was in Houston from nineteen, um uh no, 2013 to twenty—not to 2013, sorry, 2002 to 2008, and then she wanted to go home, so we, you know, so we—I took her home, and just, I thought it was

temporary, to see her friends to just, you know, to be in—in all Chinese speaking environment and the— then she stayed, and she stayed she said, "Oh, I'm not going back to the U. S.," so she lived there until she

was, uh, ninety years old. Uh 2013, that's when she passed away. But we still have the house, so when I go back to China, uh, I will still stay in that m—that house where I grew

up when I was month old, but the house hasn't uh we haven't remodeled, changed a lot of things, so now it's uh, you saw the picture, right? Yeah, it's very comfortable.

Home. Um, so how often did you guys visit China? So uh for me, um I—we love travel and uh um so most of the time, when my husband and I we

travel to Europe, in fact we are leaving on Friday Yeah So going to China is uh almost once a year, mostly when they invite me to give a lecture, so I go and then I go uh visit, so—almost every

year I go it's because of meeting—conference uh or lecture. I have not just gone just to travel there 'cause I, you know, have to work here, right? I'm not retired yet, so give a lecture, going there is like a part of

work, and then visit China, yeah. Um, so do you see yourself as Chinese or American or a mix of both? Um very good question, see myself, I think when I'm alone with

Chinese people I'm very much Chinese, when I'm with American people I don't think about myself as a, a Chinese. I know I look different from the Caucasian perspective, right, and uh but I don't think about it, sometimes I ask my

husband, I said, you know, "So do you look at me like Chinese?" He said "Well I never, I don't think about it. You are my wife. I—I just don't think about it, you're—you're you're just my wife.

You're my beautiful wife" I was like, okay. So yeah, uh do you think about you're Chinese or versus Americans or do you think about it. Not really huh. Um I guess I'm mostly American.

Yeah, yeah yeah did—d—but don't think about you have Chinese heritage, but not really think about your uh true Chinese like immigrant to this country, still carries very very um traditional way of living

and um so, yeah. So I—to me, I am more 'cause I lived here longer than I lived in China, and so I f—yeah I don't think about it, you know, but sometimes, you know, I see some Chinese

people, their behavior, the way they talk, and I don't like it, you know, because they're very much still very Chinese. They talk very loud and the mannerism is not very elegant, and I—I feel that

I'm not that way, mhm. Um, so do you feel like you've assimilated to American culture? I think very well, yeah, I—I think very well, and um uh but I have to say, you know, people I work

with, Americans, they really don't know China, they don't know Chinese people, they don't know anything, they—all they know is America is the best, it's all just America, they really, rarely know what's happening for the—for the immigrants, just like I was telling you my um

my boss, department chairman Dr. Hortobagyi, he's an immigrant, he was from Hungary, Hungary, he—he escaped the Communists in Hungary and then he went on, you know, he became a really big big big sh—big um

very well known, well respected breast medical oncologist. Yeah, so I—I really think um it's the way how you want it— yourself to be, and um and with hard work and you can achieve. Okay,

do you think are heavily involved with the Chinese community in Houston and if so how? Uh at work, not very much because we—I'm dealing with a lot of patients there, non-Chinese, um

but I do gradually get more and more Chinese patients from from China come to uh our hospital, every year now, they—they said like two to three hundred Chinese patients, self paid patients, and uh um

sometimes I, you know, they cal—they call me asking my help, so I will help them. So in that way, but otherwise, not very much. I do have a lot of Chinese friends with a different circle, some were from

same hometown, so we have a little group in—probably heard about WeChat, right. So especially with social medias, people are getting closer so Americans people don't play WeChat, so I—I have a different groups

of WeChat, we—WeChat groups. So that's how kind of involved. And, and I'm very comfortable with the uh American friends, 'cause I feel like um I had had enough

exposure to uh you know, especially my fa—uh my husband and his family, you know, um the—the— their lifestyle, the, I mean just everything I feel very comfortable I don't have a problem, even sometimes

my husband will say, uh, "Why don't you have some American friends over for dinner," and to be honest at work, I mean they, I don't know, they—they are not culturally, people at work, I'm not talking about

the physicians that but other people, they're Americans, they just know Americans. But a few, they travel enough and they—they would know, understand where I'm coming from, just like today 'cause I have to leave early, right, so I told my um uh director I said, "Um I'm going to Rice, and I'll

be interviewed by two, uh, interns and, uh, they want to interview, uh, they want me to share my, uh, life with them. She said, "Well that's wonderful," you know, and so, so she asked me little bit, you know,

stories uh asking to share with her, so I shared, she said, "Wow that's amazing, what you came from, what you suffered back then, you know, when you grew up, with, because the Communist regime, and what

you accomplished through the years." And they would never ask these kinds of questions, if I don't tell them, they thought I am just an ordinary uh person and work here, happen to be a director of research,

you know, never thought about the background and where you coming from, you know, how you get here. So that's why I'm very appreciative that you're interested in knowing how people get here. Yeah. Um, so I think you mentioned to Angela that you did

presentations like you already have this PowerPoint ready so can you talk more about that? Okay, so that's when um it was probably ten something years ago, and I was sitting with a two

American friends, my—my husband I, uh, our mutual friends, uh, our friends and uh so my husband was telling them, they're Americans, they didn't hear the story, they didn't know me, and my husband was telling them, where I came from, you know, came from the family and

went to the farm, and finally came here, and uh so they were so interested, they said, "Wow, your story, you need to share your story with American people, so they will get—they will know more of

Chinese people or know history or know where you're coming from and it will be great,” and uh so David was the person and she—uh he said, “I have a River Oaks country club, uh, breakfast club, can you come

talk to us?" I say, "Yeah sure," and I said, "Well I need to put my thoughts together, you know, that's fifty years of history," so uh he said "Yeah no hurry, you just get ready and you let me know," so I start to put my,

you know, where I was born, you know, where I grew up, and what happened during that time. And so I put a PowerPoint together, and have some pictures everything so I gave a talk, so I talked uh in this the first country club, and uh it was well received.

They were, people got up they said, "Jie, I am so sorry, I am ashamed, you know, America, as an American," he said, "I never knew what happened to China, during that time," you know.

And some people will travel, even travel to China or learn the Chinese history, they they knew what happened. But a lot of people don't, they know European history, you know, but they might not necessarily know um Chinese history, so yeah,

so and then the—the word just spread so people tell me other people, so I went to yeah four or five or six um breakfast clubs, to—to talk to them about my life and first I told them I said, "You know, I give

presentations about my research, about my about breast cancer, now I'm talking to you about my life. I think—I feel like a little bit weird, but I would like to share with you, and hope you enjoy." That's how I

usually start. So yeah I even went to uh one was um the country club in Shreveport, Louisiana. It, after I f—finished my talking, I had a standing uh standing ovation.

They thought it was so moved. Um, so what do you think is different in this generation of Chinese Americans compared to yours? Very very different, I think, um, because the experience it, the life, you know the

hardship we—we experienced um and the—the new generation would not have, especially now uh a lot of students come here and well supported financially by their family, a lot of wealthy families there, they want to send their

students, probably a lot of your—your friends from China right, they have a lot of money. And they don't have to work, they come here they have, you know, BMW um whatever fancy cars they have and live in a nice, um, apartment, they don't have to worry about tuition, they don't have to work

to go to school, so this is very very different and um I wish they have some of—not the hardship that we went through, it

was just too brutal, too much, but they have some experience, and then they will appreciate I think, what they have, what their parents provide to them. Um, do you have any advice for the newer generation?

My advice is, um, go with your dream, you don't have to listen to your parents say have you to be engineer, you have to be a doctor you have to be whatever, and whatever you, your passion is, and uh um

and you work hard, and you will achieve. Um so what do you consider your greatest accomplishment in life? My greatest accomplishment is working at MD Anderson, um, contributing my knowledge, my—my

expertise in the uh um clinical um clinical trials and drug development and using for um especially the new drugs for—for human being and I think that it's—that why I take very proud, you know, drugs that

are available everywhere and at that time I was part of uh um you know working force to make this happen, to get FDA approved, so now everybody can, can enjoy the, the drug—can be used as standard

care, that's my biggest, I feel like the biggest accomplishment, that's why I have it—all these publications and um and uh it just—its just feels very good, yeah very rewarding. Um, Angela, do you have anymore questions?

No, I feel like we've learned so much. You got it.