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Today is April 5th, 2019. We're here in library interviewing George. Uh My name is Priscilla Lee. My name is Ellie Clark. OK. And we're interviewing him for the Houston Asian American archives. OK. So let's start with where and when you were born, uh I was uh

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born in uh Taoyuan Taiwan uh on July 11th, 1934. Um And can you describe your childhood? My childhood is uh uh quite happy uh during that time is under the occupation of uh uh Japan and before the second world War. So when I was in the

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childhood, particularly in the elementary school, uh after school, uh we always get together to pray the army fight and uh the cross is divided into two, the white army and the red army and uh each one has the leader and then we fight uh for fun.

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And uh after the fight, then we all went to a restaurant which is uh to uh which is uh our favorite uh you know, uh uh favorite. The uh uh and everybody get one, you know, 11 ball for them. So, uh that's the major uh Chatwood

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activities. OK. Oh So what kind of food do they serve for that restaurant? Was it Taiwanese or Japanese food? Uh It's a Taiwanese Taiwanese. Ok. Can you tell us about your father's occupation? You want to ask? I was born when my father uh was a policeman

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and uh uh during the uh Japanese uh uh occupation, uh police uh is a very well respected uh proficient and uh in order to become uh uh a policeman, uh you have to go through the examination, which is a very uh tough because uh most of

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the people don't have the education at that time. And my father is one of the very few to go through the elementary school education, but the entrance examination for the police is much higher. Uh they are at the high school level. So therefore, my father has

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to do the self uh education uh in order to uh accomplish that. So during the examination day, uh they have three subject and uh uh you go through the examination and then right after the test, uh they will grade it and then announce who passed the

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examination. So uh the first subject is mass, but the mass would include the algebra and all uh higher level, not just the mass. So therefore, after the uh first phase, more than half was cut off. So only those who pass the mass examination can enter for

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the next subject examination and the next one is science. Yes. Yeah, it's a science. So uh then you can go through the science and then go finally to the literature. So after the free examination, they were told that uh those who are accepted uh will be

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notified by mail. So my father at that time was a salesman of the cross material. And uh he has to travel around the uh Taiwan and then uh deep for about one week or so. So, uh one day, uh, my mother received a letter, uh, of

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the acceptance letter and they are very excited about it. The problem is they didn't know where my father is. So they have only one week and after one week, if you don't report in which means you give up. So they are very, very nervous about what's

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going to happen. And then all of a sudden in the late afternoon, my father came home. So after he saw the later, he was very excited and, uh, the following day he run into police academy and the report, that's how he become the police. And, uh,

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so, uh, he was, uh, very unusual for our whole family. What did your mother do? My mother is a house, uh, um, a housekeeper basically. And, uh, we have, uh, uh, they have, uh, 11 Children, uh, to take care. So my mother was very busy, just

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take care of the Children and, and, uh, was very busy. So, what kind of principles did your father and mother raise? You up on, uh what kind of principles like, what did they teach you? Uh The principle is that, uh it's very simple. Uh They want

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us to be uh honest. Uh We never lie. Uh And we are responsible uh for what we do. The second one, they want us to become a good man so you can serve the whole mankind uh with your whole life. So that's the only two principle

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they taught us. Um Was there such a thing that your father said, how you could serve mankind? Like with, I think it, my friend helped me translate some of the book. How did you, how did you choose to serve mankind? The uh serve for the mankind?

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Of course, there are many, many things you can do and it's all depend on your interest. Uh also, and my father at that time, uh discussed with me, what should I do for the mankind? And the, the main thing uh he said, uh the drive at

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that time, it was very poor. So if we can do anything uh in medicine, medical or uh pharmacy, uh that would really help people's health and that would be a major accomplishment and improvement of the human life. Um How was it or what was your like

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the financial status of your family? The financial situation is poor. Um My father uh was born in a farm family and uh the life change after she entered the uh police academy and become the policeman. So the payment of the policeman is good. It is not

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very poor. So actually we should be able to have a good life if our sisters and brothers, only one or two. But the problem is that uh uh we have 11, my parents are 11 kids. So the total of uh 13 make the salary uh very

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uh insufficient. So therefore, uh I remember my sisters, they all trying to uh weave the head and uh this is a labor uh they do to earn a little bit of the income. And that's how uh they try to make up the uh financial difficulty. Did

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you have to work any other jobs when you're growing up? Uh when I grow up, even when I was in graduate school, uh I always keep more than two jobs and actually as a graduate student, I also work part time for six jobs. So my income

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at that time, it's not bad. Uh because uh the professor's income at that time is uh Taiwan dollar of 1000 and I was making 6000 uh in months. So actually, it's pretty good. So uh the reason uh I have to do this is because the family

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need the money. So I worked very hard, extra work and then try to make up uh and help the parents uh financial situation. Um How was your schooling like in elementary, middle and high school in or like you like, what did you like to study in

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school when you were a child in Taiwan? Oh I went to medical school, which is uh one of the best in Taiwan, not just in so university uh uh middle school uh is very famous in Taiwan. Uh everybody uh very respectful for this uh uh middle

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school. And uh uh my uh entrance examination at that time uh was after the Second World War And uh Japanese occupancy changed to Chinese occupancy and the entrance date changing from spring to the fall. So as a result, I lost one year. Er actually I was

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half year, but it turned out to be one year uh you know, for entering uh the middle school and since the school is very good, so there's no problem of the study and uh at that time, we don't still too young, so we don't work um

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for money. So at that time, all I do, all I earn is a scholarship from school which is automatically uh go to the first uh prize uh to the best uh academic uh record. So I, every semester I get one. So that will help uh my

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family and my mother used to say it's not bad, you go to school to study and still earn the money. So, which was interesting. And of course, middle schools, money is not that much when I entered the Taiwan University, then the scholarship is big because at

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that time, there's only one scholarship for the whole department and from Pfizer of America and pfizer is a very big uh drug company at that time and they gave $5000 scholarship, which is the printing for one year, you know, living. So uh after my study, most

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of the money come from the sky sheet, um do you remember what it was like when it changed from Japanese occupancy to Chinese? Can you describe like some memories you have during that time period? During that time, it was very difficult. The reason is that Chinese

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and the Japanese is totally different language and uh you don't, you don't understand what they're talking about. So usually uh after what, for the examination, it's half half which means we have the written uh examination uh in Chinese. Then after that, then we have oral examination

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which is interviewed by the teacher of middle school. And we are so nervous that uh because we don't even know what they are talking about. So for the examination, you enter the room and there are two person, two teachers sitting in front of you, the one

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ask you with Chinese and I don't know, understand what he was asking for. Then the other one translated into Japanese, then I can answer. But the answer has to be in Chinese, not in Japanese. And all I can say is uh uh like uh something of

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the nature and probably some of the answer is not what they are asking for. So that was pretty tough. But everybody is like that. So after we enter the uh middle school, then the problem is that uh uh we have moaning uh meeting which the principal

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we'll give you a speech every morning. He would give over 10 minutes speech and we listen carefully but didn't catch anything. So that was a difficult time. Then of course, they teach Chinese. Hm, every day. So uh we ran it very quickly. So dad, basically Japanese

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is your first language and Mandarin is your second language, right? OK. So your parents also spoke Japanese, your parents spoke Japanese to you growing up? Yeah. Where, where I was growing up, we still speak Japanese. The reason is that my sisters and brothers, they are all

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older than me, except one younger sister, all the rest uh about and then they all talk Japanese. So that's why um I keep Japanese very well uh writing and reading. And even after I come to the States, I was invited to Japan to give a talk,

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to give a seminar. And uh in Kyoto University, Kyoto is Tokyo and Kyoto are, are, are the top uh university uh in Japan. And uh they asked me, how would you present in Japanese or English? I said I can speak Japanese. They are so pleased. So

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at that time, uh because of the Timor Discovery, uh I was invited all over the world and to give a talk. And after my talk in Japanese, the professor, they there say you sounds like an old time our Chinese uh ST uh Japanese student sent to

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Japan. And I just come back to give a talk because my Japanese sound very classic and authentic. Not like the modern Japanese. They all changed. And in there they put a lot of English war in the new Japanese uh language. So I was surprised I, I

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didn't make that much difference. Cool. Um So let's go back to like when you went to university. Um what did you choose to study uh from a college? Oh, that was like a natural path since when you talk to your father about how you could get

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back to mankind or serve mankind. Like, were you on that path from the? Yes. Well, uh when I entered the uh university, uh the university uh I enter is a pharmacy. So therefore I continue uh to pharmacology uh in the States. And the reason I went

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to was that I told my professor that C ID uh he was a world famous. Uh He, he, he become the president of uh uh international uh society. No. Excuse me. And at that time, um he asked me, where do you like to go? I said,

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I don't have any idea which school is good. He said one school which is very good is university apply for it? I said, OK, and what was there? Uh from Taiwan. He said, no, you'll be the first one. I said, oh, ok. I would try. So

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when I, I pray for it, I was accepted immediately and why I was a little wonder why I can get in so easily. I was later find out it's because uh my uh application has uh university principal uh president recommendation later. And I find out later

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from Taiwan University why I have the recommendation A after he said the president write only one letter for each department every year who applying to the United States. And I was the only one in pharmacy school. And uh that probably is the reason I was accepted

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and also the recommendation including uh doctor uh who is uh as I said, he's very famous and he has recommended although she didn't get the Nobel Prize, but she was recommended uh to get the Nobel Prize three times uh in his lifetime. So uh uh I

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was, they were uh received uh by university. So you work in Doctor CC ID? Did you work in his lab? OK. Yes. Uh Before I uh come to the United States, uh I work in Taiwan as a graduate student and I was, she's graduate student at

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that time. So what were your um like plans for your career uh going to college? Were, were you thinking you wanted to do research? I think? Well, uh in, in the college, I was influenced quite a bit. By, uh, Doctor Lee. Originally, I thought that I,

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I went to the college, I went to school and after graduation I thought I can be a pharmacist, but I find out pharmacist is uh very monotonous, a boring job because you count the pill every day. That's not fun. And uh, at that time I was

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in France quite a bit by few, uh good research oriented professor. So, at that time, so before graduation, then I decided I want to be the professor, not the pharmacy uh uh pharmacist. So uh in order to be a uh research oriented professor, Doctor Dean told

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me you got to go to the United States to learn more, then you can come back to work for Taiwan. So I took his advice and went to um the United States. But after graduation, then I had the opportunity to go to the best uh pharmacology

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department, which is the University of Iowa. And then after the Post Act uh uh uh graduate work uh and post doctor uh training. Uh then I was offered a job to go to University of Florida. So I stuck in, in, in, in the United States. And

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uh in 1972 Dr Lee told me now you are good enough so you can come uh come back to Taiwan. And I would he was a dean, go to medical school. So he said he want to offer me the department head of Pharmacy School. But my

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mother turn it down. My mother say it's very important to get the kids, which is a Venda and afraid I have a two, uh, daughters and if he said it or no, she doesn't have a very high degree but she said the education is much better

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in the States then in Taiwan. So she prefer I stay in the state to let the kids finish the education. But then the story was wrong after the kids graduate and they were established in the field. So now I cannot even leave. So I stay in

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the States. Mhm. What was like when you came to the United States? Um Were your parents supportive of you? No. Uh my parents uh absolutely uh objected. Uh my going abroad. The reason is that my eldest brother, uh he went to Thailand when she was 19

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and never come back. So he said I have three sons and one went out, didn't come back. You are the second one want to go to the States. And if you don't come back, then I, I have only one left. And so they uh rejected my

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uh which actually my eldest brother when he want to go abroad. My parents objected as well. At that time, he want to go to Thailand for education and business, which is a very uh rare opportunity uh for him. He want to go my parents to know

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him too. So he decided you stop eating. He got the hunger strike and care my parents allow him to. So my parents told me if you can get, you are in this come home from Thailand, then I will get to go. And obviously that's impossible. So

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that's why uh then I uh married with my wife, I have two kids at that time. So then I did negotiate with my parents. I say no, I have a wife, I have two kids and they stay with you. You know, I myself will go to

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the States so that would be very safe so I can come, come back this. Yeah, that's reasonable. So I went through for ben, my wife have a good strategy. She built a house for my parents and left some money for them to spend. Then I told

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my parents now you have the house, you have the money. So you don't need to worry about whether I'm back or not. And of course I will come back with it but not necessarily deep. So that's why uh they finally agreed. Ok. So they're under that.

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Is it like a tradition for the son to come back and take care of his parents? Was that, were they under that? Like, well, they taking care of my parents uh is not the problem because I have so many sisters, excuse me, uh in the uh

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in Taiwan. So even we were in, in the States. Uh my sister, they all living there. Ok. Um and when you're sending money every month, no, the, the after, after I, um, come to the state, although I have the full discussion, uh, actually, uh, I was

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tuition free and then $300 a month, uh, that was, uh, my money I get from Vanderbilt University in the $300 is not the big money. And I spend $50 for the rent in the best of $250. I spent $50 for the living. So each month I

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have only $50 left. So I don't spend a penny for anything else, not cruising or a trip to anywhere. Uh something like that. So every month I can have 50,000, the so about $50 and in about to 34 months, I can save about one full $100.

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Then I send it back to my parents and at that time, uh $100 uh is very big money, uh which is uh 4000, which is equivalent to the salary of four professors. So they are very happy. They say you go to go to school and they

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still can earn money, which is just like you are in middle school. Um So did you have any expectations coming to the United States? My expectation at that time, what they're trying to get a phd, which is the most important. Uh And after, uh, I get

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my, uh phd, uh I got my phd uh in a very short period of time, uh the shortest for the uh for the university. And uh most of the people get phd, uh spend uh five plus years to get one and I get only 2.5 years

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to get the phd. So when uh my wife told my friends and say my uh husband is uh getting a phd uh soon they say, oh, you made a mistake. It's a master degree. Uh not phd, but actually I got a phd. So uh after the

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phd uh was awarded then uh doctor JP in the University of Iowa immediately uh offered me uh the uh fellowship for post training. And at that time, 9000 a year is a very big money. Uh It's probably one of the highest post of fellowship and I

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work uh with him in Iowa for one year then to Florida. How old were you when you, how old were you when you uh went to the University of Iowa? Uh I went to there in 39 when I was 39 years old. So which means I

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was in the, in the States uh for nine years, uh moved from graduate student to, to post and to assistant professor uh at that time. And it's very interesting. Uh Couple of years later, I become the department head of Texas A and M University. And uh

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I have a friend uh came to the States uh with me. He was still in graduate school and I was already department head. Hm. So, what, what do you think allowed you to finish, you know, like, go so quickly through your, um, through the physicians and,

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like, get your phd so quickly. What would you like attribute that to? What time did you go to the lab in the morning? Go to the, yeah. What, what time did you start? Your, your research day? Dad, I think. Yeah, usually I'm a, so, uh, therefore

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I sleep very early and, uh, during the summer time the sun is still hang in there before the sun set. I already in the bed and then I wake up at the middle of the, of the, the night and then I eat breakfast very quickly and

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they go to laboratory because no one is giving a lecture. So I go there at about two or three o'clock. Big worry. So the, the is Brock. So that's why I met, uh, uh, two bad guys, uh, who rob me and, uh, ask me for money

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and if I don't pay the money, I know I will be hurt. So usually I keep at least $5 in my wallet. So if a big guy came over, I really need to show him my warrant. I said this $5 is all I have. And at

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that time, $5 is not too small, it's not too bad. So usually he will take it in both time. He took it and said, thank you. The death was this a result while you're, was this while you're in Nashville? Ok. I was a graduate student. Mhm.

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Um Did you, how was your uh fluency in English when you came to the United States? Well, at the beginning, my English is very poor because in Taiwan I learned how to read how to write. So uh when I come to the States, um the biggest

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thing bothers me, it is spoken English because it doesn't follow the grammar. And for instance, you talk to the people you say me too. I said, what is me too? It doesn't make any sense. You have to say I too, right? But you can say me

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too, something like that. So this is a whole bunch of this question. So in addition to my poor hearing practice and the speaking practice, the whole English sounds different to me at that time when I first came over. So that was improve, of course, very quickly.

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Then I learned, OK, so uh speaking English is not the real English. So I improve it very quickly. Um How is like going to restaurants like in America? Like how did you know what to order going to restaurant is a challenge. Actually, I, I started uh

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problem afraid or go into restaurants. The first time I went to first time was whom I ride the Greyhound bus all the way from Los Angeles to Nashville. At that time and that was 60 hours right in the street. So you got to stop somewhere and

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the bus will stop and allow you to go through, uh, order something to eat. So I enter everybody's ordering things and, uh, looks very happy. I was the only one who didn't know how to order it. So I said, I want to eat the stick. You

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see what it just stick there there. I said, oh, it's a steak. So that's the first time I said ST not a stick you want to eat. So the language problem is something which most of, most of us take it for granted. You know, steak is

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steak. You never say steak, right? But when you read the English, he can breath a stink something like that. But after that I learned how to order steak. So later on in my life, every time I go to the restroom, uh uh, to, to the restroom,

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I always order the steak. I don't order anything else like you didn't want to try other types of food or because I don't know, I don't, I, I don't want to take the risk. This is a big venture for me. Um, so when did you, when

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did you have, when did your family reunite with you? Like your two daughters and your wife? Because they were in Taiwan with my mom? They in Taiwan. Your question is like when did they move over? Move immigrate? Oh, they, I, I came in 1964 and they

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came in 1966. It's about 1.5 years later. So when they come to, uh, the States, uh, my friends in graduate school, he's a boy. You are very brave to bring wife and the Children and most of them didn't even marry. So you said, how, how can

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you survive, you know, with your scholarship and the two additional, uh, 33 additional uh family members? I said, well, I have to take them because my wife uh say she want to come and my wife has a very strong will. Uh Some people say when you

00:46:42.620 - 00:47:15.060

may succeed, you got to have some great lady behind me. And that is the typical one when she said she wants to come, she will. And uh uh unlike me, she was born and grow in a very rich family in Taiwan. So financially he has no

00:47:15.070 - 00:47:51.969

problem of coming to the state. So uh they came over and uh uh of course, that's why even today all my financial question, it is controlled by my life. I don't have a right to spend a penny. Everything has to ask her first without her approval.

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I cannot spend the money. So how did you meet your wife? How did you meet your wife? That was uh uh you, you cannot believe in during the old time uh intro introduce when the people and she was introduced to me by my loyalty. And that's

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how, that's how we, uh, get to know each other and, uh, somehow, uh, we like each other. So, uh, very quickly we engaged and married. When did you get married? When, when did you get married, or is it, uh, 1961? Um, what did you, how long

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did it take for you to feel comfortable in America? I'm sure, uh, I feel comfortable, uh, relative very quickly. Uh The reason is that uh you don't mind English is a poor in the spoken English, but I learned it very quickly because my grammar is good.

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My writing, reading and writing, everything is good so I can pick it up very quickly. So the longest problem, uh you know, disappeared. Uh So which is very good. The second scene, of course, of course, during 19 sixties, uh discrimination steer is a very serious problem

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in the United States, particularly in the southern area like uh uh Nashville, uh Texas, these uh southern areas uh you have that's of racial discrimination. But fortunately, I'm, I was in academia. So, unless I go out countryside, I don't really freeze that. Uh uh local resident

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uh who are quite discriminate you. For example, one time we drove the car outside and uh uh somehow uh the tire, you know, uh have the trouble. So I have to fix the ti and I went to the garage and I want to do it, the

00:50:54.800 - 00:51:15.189

people there don't even want to listen to you. So this is the problem and I was, well, I have to wait because I have no place to go and the tire is broken. So I waited for a long, long time until they took care. All the

00:51:15.199 - 00:51:40.580

customers then come to me and say, so what do you want? I said he didn't need to ask because the tire is broken. So she didn't say any innocent press it and charge me. That's it. They don't even bother to talk to me. So this kind

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of press um you, you can really feel the discrimination and fortunately I don't face it every day because I go to school. I was in academia and the kids went to school. So that's not the problem. So I get used to it very quickly. How is

00:52:08.449 - 00:52:36.030

it like going to like the grocery store, the grocery store? Now that that is just like uh go into countryside, you have to face uh all kinds of people in the public. So the ladies over there are not very friendly to check out. Uh So when

00:52:36.040 - 00:53:00.969

I buy something and uh they will give you just throw it to you and don't bother to, you know, put the nice in the bag or something like that. So sometimes it's really hurting, you know, you, you, you are very hard to, to swallow it. One

00:53:00.979 - 00:53:42.699

day I found out the lady made a big mistake. My item is 69 cents and she put 96 cents. 10 6 and nine diverse. I say seriously, lady, you charge me wrong. 69 not 96. Oh, no problem. We will send the money to you. So she

00:53:42.709 - 00:54:14.219

took it paper pen, the subtraction. They cannot do it. Lisbon whole bunch of time. And I said just take 27 cents out and that's it. I said no, you cannot guess it, we have to be accurate. So, oh, ok. You make it accurate. And after the

00:54:14.229 - 00:54:38.110

whole calculation, she got to five or six different answers. So you listen, me, her superior came over. So what's the problem? He said 69 and 96 I reverse it. I said, oh, get a computer uh at that time, although it's new but they have the uh

00:54:38.500 - 00:55:10.989

calculator. So yeah, take 27 cents out. I said, oh, you guess it right? And after that I went to the same store, buy anything. See was very respectable for me. He said he can do subtraction. Um I guess we can start talking about your research with

00:55:11.000 - 00:55:48.229

time. The glaucoma drop. Um What was, can you describe like how you came with that research? How to come to former chair? What? Actually I was mm autonomic pharmacologist, which means of course, pharmacology has a big area and my area is autonomic pharmacology and autonomy. Has

00:55:48.239 - 00:56:27.750

two major part, one is uh colergic and one is a and uh the Glaucoma drug is a Coronary Zika drug which is uh or nail, nail, uh something like that. And at that time, the whole world are using colonize. But since I was ordinary pharmacologist, I

00:56:27.760 - 00:57:03.439

want to try a magic part as well. And other part have Aron and antagonist and I want to study all of them. So I don't, the NIH proposal send it to NIH grant and my proposal was quickly approved so I can uh-huh get the money except

00:57:03.449 - 00:57:34.510

that they said you don't need to do the part because it doesn't work and you just work on logic. But since your proposal is good, will give you the full funding today. NIH will ask you to do in half of the family. And I was the

00:57:34.520 - 00:58:00.439

reverse. I get the full funding. Who is the half of the job? So after I get the money, I told my graduate student just do it anyway because they gave me the money. So just try it. And one of them we tried is a huge rock

00:58:01.159 - 00:58:34.800

from work shop in dome which is a anti uh hypertension drunk at that time. So I said, I try this one. Awesome. Uh I see what's going to happen. And uh when we tried it, the student come back and you say, boy, Doctor Joe, this one

00:58:34.810 - 00:59:05.520

work. I said, well, you must grab a brown barrow uh for the testing which you know, or it happened. And if you use pin, which is a drug which is originally used for glaucoma. And of course, it would work. No, I don't think uh I grabbed

00:59:05.530 - 00:59:34.850

the wrong bottle. I said, well, no, you repeat it anyway. So I cannot uh believe the result. So he went back and two days later, this is doctor, this is for real, the intra blood pressure dropped. So then I decided that this must be and good

00:59:34.860 - 01:00:09.080

thing happened and that was the discovery or so a lot of great discovery uh come by accident. Uh not necessary you print and uh you get it for the wrong reason. So it's very interesting. Oh, wait, where, what university were you at when you discovered the

01:00:09.090 - 01:00:38.229

drug? What were you at the University of Florida or Texas A and M? 00. that was in, uh Florida, Florida. Yeah. Uh, uh, nine, 1978. Uh, about 77 78 is the, is a year. Uh, the job was put in the market and at the same time

01:00:39.020 - 01:01:03.030

I moved to Texas A and M. So A a actually this happened between two school and everyone will say, yeah, from Florida and someone say no, it's from a name actually. Both are right. Um, I guess what was that like seeing was that one of the

01:01:03.040 - 01:01:22.209

first, was that the first drug you had on market or have you had previous, um, like medications on the market? Is it like the first time your research became like something that could be sold in the market or have you had previous research where you're able

01:01:22.219 - 01:01:52.189

to like invent something in culture? You are. It's the first medicine that went on market. This is the first one, first one. And that, that's, that's a big, big excitement. Um Before this drug was put in the market, uh the market uh income is very small

01:01:53.729 - 01:02:35.199

and with uh put in the market, the Glaucoma drug jump 9.5 times higher income. It, it's not the patient increase. It's just because of the new drug. So this was very exciting. And in the past before 1978 the whole world didn't care about i drunk development

01:02:35.899 - 01:03:15.340

or production. So if you a big company, you don't want to say you, I I drop producer. But after 1978 if you don't say will you also produce drugs, then you are not the biggest first class pharmaceutical company. So that's how it changed. The world completely

01:03:15.350 - 01:03:47.179

changed. So at that time, uh the series, even in news, you are before you were born uh the evening. Um The reporter is Walter Ran and Walter at that time, say this drug is a magic drug of the century. So all of a sudden is explore

01:03:47.189 - 01:04:14.479

that. How did you start researching like drugs for glaucoma? How to start? How did you start on that research topic? Like what led you to research? Um Oh yeah, iii I will say the uh original I was. Yeah. And, and uh you just switch switch. Ok.

01:04:16.429 - 01:04:45.199

Um and then you went to Texas A and M for which position? Department head? Yeah, I uh uh I went there as a uh injured people, uh is a professor and then advanced to department head and uh I jumped from associate professor at the University of

01:04:45.209 - 01:05:19.330

Florida, then went to Texas A and M as professor and department head at the same time. And uh this of course, uh has a big help from Doctor RM Bass and John RM, as I mentioned was at the Vanderbilt uh department head and he was also

01:05:19.340 - 01:05:56.729

the president of the American Association of Pharmacology uh was the department head of number one pharmacology department in the States. And both of them uh very nice to me and they know that I'm interested to become the farmer head. So they always receive a request of

01:05:57.649 - 01:06:28.959

nomination of the department head from all over the nation and the post from the request from Texas A and M and they told them doc George Cho should be interested. So then I received a phone call from Texas A NN and uh uh Aaron Smith. Doctor

01:06:28.969 - 01:06:56.280

Smith was the uh um active dean at that time and he call me and say, would you be interested in the department head position? A text a name? I said sure. Uh if everything is good, then I will be happy to accept. So he said, then

01:06:56.290 - 01:07:23.209

why don't you come over right away? I said, ok, I will try to buy a ticket and see what happened. Then the second day I called him back, I said, I'm sorry, all chickens are sold out and I cannot go to Amen. He said, oh, don't

01:07:23.219 - 01:07:54.070

worry. At that time, uh, the airplane between Houston in College station is a private, uh, air owned by the university. So he said, don't worry, we will, we will send the, er, airplane and pick you up. I said a friend to pick me up. That is

01:07:54.439 - 01:08:30.290

unusual. And then they really send the airplane and pick him up and flew to, uh College Station. That's why I had the interview done and then they wanted me and were you the first department head? Ok. So it was newly opened, opened the, uh, uh, 1970

01:08:31.379 - 01:09:10.319

eight. I can take AAA, but the school opened two days before 78. What school? Hm. What school? Medical school? Yeah, medical school, uh, start, um, uh, 1976. But then when, when you first started, no, he doesn't need to study pharmacology until their second year student. So

01:09:10.830 - 01:09:32.899

they started with result. The department had, and then in 1978 they decided to hire the department my head. So I came over, um, what was that, like, um, interacting, like being in a new position, like you said, it was like a big jump. From associate professor.

01:09:32.990 - 01:10:09.149

How did you feel going into that role? Uh It's very interesting that uh uh not only I'm the regular, mm, the former Head of Pharmacology. Uh I also a brand new position so that I designed the department uh for the building. Uh uh without knowing much

01:10:09.160 - 01:10:32.370

of the architecture uh with a pencil and a and, and, and the paper, you know, I draw the picture how it should be like uh something of that nature. So it was a highly challenging. I, I did a lot of things which I didn't know how

01:10:32.379 - 01:11:08.350

to do it before and I learned it myself. Um Do you have any questions Zoe, trying to think? Um Did you hold any other positions other than department head? Eventually at the medical school? Yes, I was uh offered uh to work as a, actually, I, I

01:11:08.359 - 01:11:35.529

have multiple functions uh at that time, uh One of them is the associate dean uh or the school uh so that uh in charge of uh medical research and the graduate program. So uh that was in addition to the department, his job. So I have two

01:11:35.540 - 01:12:03.319

offices, you know, one is associating office, then the department head office. Uh So I have two of them. Uh Then I also work at the chief editor of the Journal of Ology and Therapeutics of which also is a very heavy duty, busy one and I use

01:12:03.330 - 01:12:31.450

one secretary, sorry, you know, hindering because the management come in, send it out for review and all that kind of stuff. So I did all this all together by myself and then I publish more than 10 papers, which is about half of the whole department head.

01:12:31.819 - 01:12:58.140

So the factory cannot complain. So I'm not uh concentrate uh enough on the job. Although I have done so many things, I still publish much more than what they are doing. OK. How did you deal with moving so often? Like you and your family moving so

01:12:58.149 - 01:13:34.689

often? How did, how was that difficult? That's a very interesting question. Um When I first come to the States, I want to uh university and as you know, uh they're quite discriminatory atmosphere at that time. So uh to grant a doom, it's not easy. You see

01:13:34.700 - 01:14:06.479

a sign there doom for rent and you knock the door and say I'd like to going to go, ok, sorry, is repented. Well, is a lie. You know that you see this all the time and then once you move in a place they would uh complain

01:14:06.490 - 01:14:34.589

to you. You didn't follow this, you didn't follow this and you have to complain and basically they don't want you to stay there. So I have to force most of my time after school, I was trying to find a place to be most of the time.

01:14:34.910 - 01:15:03.680

And during that one year, I move 10 times and I have to do that. It's not my desire or my pleasure. But you have to face it. So if you say the, did you face any discrimination? Yes. But what can you do? Well, you, you, you

01:15:03.689 - 01:15:34.279

cannot do anything. You know, if you complain. So who is going to help you? So that's what? So by the time my family came over, we didn't move because at that time, uh we live in one place and then moved to the university dormitory, which was

01:15:34.290 - 01:16:02.000

very, very lucky to be able to get the price and the place we live from the when they come over, it's a very bad area. There's no safety at all. So at that time, after I was eager to find another place, you know, the reason I

01:16:02.009 - 01:16:34.930

was robbed is because I walk early in the morning. So I was robbed and the place where we live after we move out, the new one came in and her, they just enter from the window and he catered the baby and they try to, I, I

01:16:34.939 - 01:17:10.359

don't know the details, but so that was a terrible situation. So to move, I have lots of experience. Not very present. Hm What are your current research projects if you have any? Yeah. Now, are you doing any research right now? Uh Now I still working on

01:17:10.370 - 01:17:41.629

research uh mandate in Taiwan. Uh I have couple of uh professors uh who came to my lab in college station before they are now in Taiwan. Medical University and they are helping me to doing the research in the laboratory. And um what happened is that I

01:17:41.640 - 01:18:19.970

have the project uh with a pharmaceutical company and then try to work on developing a new drug for the treatment of diabetic retinopathy, no diabetic diabetic retinopathy. One third occupation of diabetes, patient who get this disease and this disease can cause brightness. So it's a very

01:18:19.979 - 01:18:55.040

serious disease. The population today is about 100 and 20 million at the least 100 and 20 million. Why is this? Because a lot of diabetic patient didn't even to see the eye doctor and didn't even know that he will see us that could. So currently, we

01:18:55.049 - 01:19:38.000

don't have a good drug for the treatment of this particular disease and I'm working on it, try to develop it. Um How would you like identify yourself? Well, I'd like to be identified uh as an inventor of Novel Hydrox and uh which can benefit millions and

01:19:38.009 - 01:20:08.580

millions of the patient. And would, would you say that's your proudest accomplishment so far? Yeah, so far, right. I have accomplished quite a bit. Uh even glaucoma wrong. Uh A lot of millions of people was benefited by it. And the last time I went to Taiwan

01:20:09.330 - 01:20:49.020

and in a uh meeting, there's one patient, uh glaucoma patient uh come to the talk. Uh she came over to the stage and give me flowers to thank me for inventing the bro. So uh that's the comfort for you receive. Um And then I guess having

01:20:49.029 - 01:21:10.970

raised your Children in the United States, did you want to also like, teach them like Taiwanese slash like Chinese traditions that you also were raised on? Or like how is that like raising your Children in the, in the States? Of course, uh the custom is very

01:21:10.979 - 01:21:43.729

different, you know, Taiwan in the United States. And uh we go to the uh Taiwanese uh community uh here in Houston and they have all kinds of tennis uh activities. Uh So that's enjoyable. Uh But of course, when you are in the States, the majority of

01:21:43.740 - 01:22:20.160

the uh time is spent ready to come. So, uh basically you have to be American. Did you have any other questions? Um, yeah, I, I guess when did you retire from, I guess like being a professor, uh I officially retired uh two years ago and, uh

01:22:21.390 - 01:22:55.220

I don't need to be tired because the university allow me to continue to work. Um because I was very well funded. I have lots of money for research. And uh the main reason I re tired is Taiwan's pharmaceutical industry wanted me to go over there to

01:22:55.229 - 01:23:21.180

help them. So I thought it's a different experience and stimulation and also it's my mother. And so I thought at least I should do something which I can. So I agreed. But in order to do that, I have to retire from A and M I cannot

01:23:21.189 - 01:23:49.790

say I'm a full professor in A and M and also working for the industry. And that's why I retire. University didn't really want me to retire. But when I finally tell them, I keep postponing it until I cannot postpone any further. And then when I retired,

01:23:50.680 - 01:24:19.379

I contribute to all my research fund, which is $350,000 death left behind medical school so that they really appreciate that. So, do you travel to Taiwan or are you? Yes. Yes, I go to Taiwan once or twice a year. Yes. How long do you stay when

01:24:19.390 - 01:24:53.729

you're in Taiwan, usually stay about three weeks and planning to make it longer uh in the future. Uh because there are more and more uh things which I need to take care of is uh my book. Yes. So, oh, one thing uh II I like to

01:24:53.740 - 01:25:30.120

mention about accomplishment. Uh Most of the people when they talk about accomplishment, they just talk about you are professional for me developing uh which is a symbol on my accomplishment, but I have equally proud of my accomplishment is I have for two daughters and four kids

01:25:30.450 - 01:26:03.129

and four grandkids. Uh The former case, uh The biggest one is uh uh Margo uh who graduated from Grace uh University. And uh now he's a second year medical student at mcgovern Medical School next door. And the, the second one is Eden. Uh She is uh

01:26:03.140 - 01:26:41.799

she was graduated from uh Hopkins uh University and then is going to go to uh medical school at mcgovern. Uh from this year, there are two other twins was a much younger. Uh They will graduate uh high school uh in the fall and uh uh will

01:26:41.810 - 01:27:14.080

go to university and uh uh 10 uh is a boy uh who is accepted to Rice University early decision this year. So see, so I, I have a lot of relationship with uh with rice. So he's going to come to uh Rice University uh in the

01:27:14.089 - 01:27:51.060

fall and uh the youngest uh granddaughter, uh she is going to uh go to university with a full scholarship 80,000, which I never heard of it, which is sounds pretty good. So she will go to uh uh her name is uh Michelle. Um And what are

01:27:51.069 - 01:28:17.479

your hopes for your grandchildren? Oh, my hope for them is they have to do what they like to do and uh most of them they all like to go to medicine. So in this way, I'd like them to work very hard uh for the medical world

01:28:18.189 - 01:28:54.890

and I'm sure the fear is so that they can uh do anything they can. But the principle is just like what my parents taught us before, just try to improve the hills of the human being. Um So that kind of concludes our interview. Did you have

01:28:54.899 - 01:29:06.379

any last? Yeah. Did you have any last comments you wanted to make no, no, no comment. I think this is very thorough. Ok, great. Thank you so much, doctor. Yeah, thank you very much.