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Today is June 11, 2021. My name is Katherine Wu and I'm documenting Erin Quill's oral history via an interview with the Houston Asian American Archive. Thank you so much for joining us today,

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Erin. Thank you for having me. I appreciate it. So we're gonna start from the very beginning. When and where were you born?

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I was born in Manhattan, but I am a dual citizen of the United States and Australia because my mother is an Australian who came over to study with Martha Graham. So I am a dual citizen. I am biracial or multiracial, to be honest.

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And you know, she—so the—it's hard, so the beginning is that I was born in Manhattan, but I'm a dual citizen. My family is performers for three generations now.

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But not in this country. In Australia, which is slightly different as well, because most performers say, "Oh, my parent was a opera singer in China," or something like that. But my grandmother was a concert pianist,

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and she lived in Far North Queensland, but she had a very colorful life before she settled down and got married. And my mother was a ballet dancer who is the most—has the—she's the youngest person to

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ever get an advanced teacher's certificate from the Royal Academy of Ballet in England, but she faced enormous racism within the English Ballet system. So she came, she kind of tried to dodge that bullet

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and come to the United States. She got a full scholarship from Martha Graham. While she was over here, she had—somebody thought she was doing a different lift, and they dropped her on both her knees

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and her knees cracked. And she would have been unable to sustain a rigorous ballet career, she would have had to return full time to teaching. So while she was waiting for a specialist to consult with, she took a job at the UN.

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And on her last month in the United States, her roommates took her out bar hopping, and that's where she met my dad. My dad is an Irish American, was an Irish American attorney.

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His family is very big in the United States labor movement. His cousin, Mike Quill, founded the Transit Workers Union. So I had two kind of enormous heritages to balance and juggle.

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And I think that that has shaped my early life and how I continue to go about in the world. Because when I was born, and I'm not gonna say the year, because it's a lot further back than probably anybody looking at me will–will

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understand, but it's the Year of the Dog, so just pick one. At that time, there were no honest examples of multiracial children in the United

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States. So, I was the only one in my town where I grew up, and I—my sisters and I—and I was the only one that had, I was the only one that looked like me. So I did—there was no clear path to anything from

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growing up as being a performer, except that my mother insisted we study dance and music, because that was her family heritage, and so I came to—I started there. And what were your first memories of realizing that you were different from the other kids? Well, one of my first memories, I was six—I mean,

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obviously, I knew as a child that my mom looked different. I don't believe that people don't see color, I think, you know, how—I always ask, “How do they drive?” So I'm like, "You don't see color. Really? How's that stop sign working out for you?"

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One of the, kind of like—I didn't realize, my mother always said to me that "You are lucky because you are a golden child." She said, "You have the best of both races. And you can pick and choose, and you

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have so many things to pull from that you should have a blessed life." That was her point of view. It was probably very different from the way a lot of people were viewing

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multiracial children at that time. In fact, my parents were married in 1968, which was very—relatively soon after Loving versus—the Loving decision. So in different times, they would not have been married.

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And in fact, the chaplain at the United Nations Chapel married them because even though my dad was Catholic, the Catholic Church would not marry them at that time. So that was—and they were married for years and years and

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years since 1968. So the first time was I—my—I was going to camp, my mother gave me money to go into a store by myself, which was a big deal because I was six, and buy shampoo.

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That was also a big deal because I never got any input on what product I was allowed to pick, it was always just like, this is, this is the cheapest. It's fine. And so I had all these plans going in,

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right? And I was like, I—and I was giving myself a little pep talk, like, you can do this, you can go in, you can pick that shampoo, and you can— and I brought it up to the counter.

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And the woman behind the counter said, "What are you?" And I said, "I just want to buy shampoo." And she said, "Well, I'm not going to sell you the shampoo unless you tell me what you are." And then she followed it up with: "Are you a boat

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person?" And I-I remember skipping into the store and then walking very sadly and slowly out. But I did say to her, I was like, "No, I'm not a boat person." I did know what a boat person was because my parents were avid

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news people, so I knew that there was an influx of people coming on boats very dangerously, from Vietnam, from you know, different places in the world.

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So I knew what she meant. But I-I was like, "No, I'm–I'm not." Coincidentally, it turns out I did my DNA, I'm actually a large portion Southeast Asian. Which—so I guess I could have said yeah.

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But that very much reminded me that the joy that my parents felt at my coming into the world was not felt by the majority of the population who exist in a binary, particularly in

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the United States. And then the other thing was my grandmother, who was a bigoted Irish woman. When my parents called to tell her, my dad—that I was on the way, my dad did not inform his mother that my

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mom was also on the line. You know, that was when they had phones that were connected, kids, to a telephone line. And she let off apparently, a big stream of like, “You should never reproduce with that

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woman” kind of stuff. And so that shaped how my mother interacted with my grandmother, which of course, was as little as possible.

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Sounds like there's some maybe familial strain there with the identities. Uh yeah, you think? Yeah, just a little bit. But, you know, I was able to reconcile it.

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I had little incidents throughout my life, people calling me all sorts of expletives and names and stuff, and I just kind of doubled down on the fact that I was different from the go. I didn't like things that all the other

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kids liked. I gravitated towards the arts. I was good at sports. But that wasn't my—I didn't have any passion for sports.

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So I just kind of—I remember these boys called me “chink” while I was riding my bicycle. And I remember saying to myself, it doesn't matter what you—they said to you because you can sing, and that's kind of how I survived it

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because the arts at that time was not looked on as a valuable profession. And it was not looked on as a worthwhile course of study. I very much stuck out in my little

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town on Long Island. And did you grow up wanting to be a performer? I didn't want to be a performer. I didn't honestly think it was possible because I knew what I look

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like. And I didn't see me on television. And I didn't see me in the films. I didn't see any representation of me as a Disney animation, you know?

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So it was very much not a desire because I didn't think it was possible. I didn't think it was possible. Until I went to college, I went to Carnegie Mellon.

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I have a BFA from—in vocal performance from their music department. And I remember saying to myself, “If I get into Carnegie Mellon, that's the first hurdle.

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Because if I can't get into that program, that means talent- wise, I don't have enough.” This was just my rhetoric. I don't actually believe this anymore, but I was like, “If I don't get into Carnegie Mellon, that means that I'm not talented enough,”

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which honestly should be the—in my head, that was the grading point, that was how you knew you were worthy, if–if the right school picked you. And then I also was like, if there's no—if I can't

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fight back with a degree from a recognized university, then I'm gonna have a really hard time because I'm looking around at Broadway, I’m looking around at theater, and I'm not there.

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I'm honestly not there. So, you know, it was a real stretch for my parents to say, like, “Go ahead and go apply and study.” But they did. You know, based on, I think, my mom and her career, and my father also had a

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brother who was a producer. He won an Emmy Award when I was in junior high. So, you know, I think my parents didn't—they–they honestly believed in talent.

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My parents both honestly believe talent will will out and wherever you wind up, is where you wind up. And, you know, I asked my dad one time when I was older, I said, "You do know I'm Asian, right?" And he was like, "No, you look just like me." And I was like,

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"Yes, yes, I look just like you, only also Asian." And he was—it took him a while to understand that that's how the world saw me because he didn't see me like that.

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But I remember him, sharing his, you know, his Irish heritage with me and we went to FEIS and he represented a lot of Irish-American performers. And he did not see how people saw me. He expected me

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to be fully embraced by all these different people. And yet, when they saw me, they were like, "What's going on there?" You know, there was always a, "Is that his girlfriend?" As I got older, "Is that his

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girlfriend? Is that his nurse?" Is that—who is that? You know, they didn't automatically go to, well, that's his–his kid. You know? And so I think my parents were naive.

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But if they hadn't been so naive, I probably would be an attorney. Because my father was an attorney. And it would have been a lot easier. And even now, sometimes I'm

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like, “I wonder if I'm too old to go to law school.” So, you know, that's what it is. But the blog is written somewhat like a brief, you know, a brief with humor, which is kind of how my dad—because my dad

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was a very good writer, and my dad kind of, he would read all my papers, and he would help me with my homework and that kind of thing. Whereas my mother was like, “I don't know.” She had no time.

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She had three kids. She had no time for helping people with homework. She's like, "You do what you do, and that's what you do." So... So you had two siblings? I have two siblings.

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My youngest sibling, Shauna, is the Executive Director of the New York Youth Symphony. She also went to Carnegie Mellon. She has been the Executive Director there, she was I think the Executive Director—or I don't know if they called it that—at the Aspen Music

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Festival, and different—so she's in classical music. And my second sister went to Barnard and she also was in music, but the music industry in terms of pop music, so she went into mus—we all went into music, just in

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different facets. I was the only one that went into musical theater. Sounds like, as you said, an entire family of performers. Yes. Yeah. And we have, like in Australia, again, an entire—everybody

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does something creative, almost everybody. My first cousin is the—he–he is one of the founders and he's the Artistic Director of—or the, he's the AD of a very successful ad agency

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named Rumble. He's the creative director. And my other cousin is a—he's a photographer, and he's well known. His name is William Yang. And he's a very well-known photographer in Australia.

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He chronicles the rise of AIDS and gay life in Australia and other things. So yeah, so we have a lot of people in that, in various parts of performing arts. Did you go to Australia to visit them as a kid?

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Yes, I was there most summers. I do have an Australian accent that I can jump into and I do jump into it when I'm around other Australians. So if you came to me and you were talking about being

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Australian, and–and you know, some restaurant that you tried where you could get really good meat pies, I'd be–I'd be talking like this. And one of the reasons I did develop that as a child was to try and fit in more because I didn't really fit in in either country either.

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So I just, I just am always restless whenever I'm with other people because I don't, you know, even with Asian performers and academics, I feel they do sort of distrust me because I am mixed race.

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Or they use my being mixed race to kind of, you know, like, “Erin's not really Asian,” you know, there's a lot of that that goes on, and I see it, you know, all the time. So I see it from the Asian community, I see it from the white community.

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So I just have to exist somewhere in the nether-nether, and that's what I do, as best I can, but I do think it will change. I do

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think that since 1970, the birth rate of mixed-race children has risen 13% and I do think it's going to continue to rise. So hopefully, by the time everybody gets to where it's at all

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equitable, and–and fair and open for discussion, hopefully, I'll get to play all their grandmothers. . That’s what I—I was like, when Mulan finally comes to Broadway, maybe I'll get to play your grandmother.

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You know, like that kind of thing. That's a great way of thinking too. And I know, since you're mixed race, do you feel like you're part of both worlds?

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Or do you feel like you're neither? I feel like I do exist in the absolute middle. I also think I'm—it's kind of like a superpower as well. Because I feel like if people don't

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recognize initially that I am Asian, and they start discussing something, I'm able to chime in and be like, “Uh–uh–uh, wait.” But again, and vice versa, when people start talking badly about, you know, white people, I'm like, “Okay, I understand that

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point of view, but also…half-white.” You know? So—or Irish is–is the way I prefer to address it, you know? So I don't think I exist truly in either. I'm not trusted by either.

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But that gives me enormous freedom that I didn't realize I had when I was younger, to say what I feel needs to be said, and to openly challenge a lot of the

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ideas about who Asian Americans are, and–and where we fit in America. And with the rise of mixed children birth rates, I'm really glad that they have someone to look up to.

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I always get—whenever I see a mixed-race kid, I'm always like, "Oh, hi!" I just want to hug them. Because I'm like, "It'll get better. I swear, I swear, like people won't—" But yeah, when I was young, it was very harsh, it's harsh and I hope that none of them have that

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experience moving forward. You know, I hope that everybody sees a child that is welcomed for the joy and blessing it is, and that it came from, in most cases, a consensual, loving

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relationship. So you know, there's no reason to attack anybody because they happen to share a background with another group that is not yours. And thinking back on your time in college, what were some defining moments that you had

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there? Well, my department was very small. When—my–my initial class was 23 people and it dropped to

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13, I think, by the time we all graduated, so the cut rate, which they don't do anymore, is high. It was high, and some people left voluntarily and some people were told to leave. So the first hurdle that I had

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in–in my pursuit was I did—I learned a different system of sight singing than the system that was being taught. So they use fixable do. And I had been trained in moveable do.

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So I would do an entire page of dictation, and I would get the intervals right, but I would get the starting note wrong. And my teacher would fail me, you know, like, she just—she's like, and she wasn't even

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Chinese. Like, I was like, really? So that was my first hurdle, like trying to fit more into what is academic music, than what I had been doing, which was just singing and really enjoying it.

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And I had been taught, honestly, by a mixed- race musical theater performer who had been in the original company of Sweet Charity, when I was growing up. So, you know, she was more about like, "Just sell it, just sell it."

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And that's what I was good at, as opposed to like, take notes and sit there and–and recite the same thing that I just told you back. So that was my first hurdle, which was sight singing and eurhythmics, which is the study of notes and

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rhythms. And my second, I remember, when I was a freshman, this will date me. But anyway, prepare to be surprised. When I was a freshman, Miss Saigon came calling

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for the original company, and it hadn't opened here yet. But there—it hadn't, I think even, maybe it hadn't even opened in the–in the west coast, in the West End.

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But they heard about me, and they contacted the school, and I was asked to send a tape. And that began this like 13 audition process, which was—and obviously I didn't get it, but it was very, it was very draining.

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So like, I think the school always knew that I was going to do Broadway, they just didn't know how I was going to get there. They–they–they just really didn't. But I remember my individual teacher, singing teacher, Charlotte Black,

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who was also Ming-Na's voice teacher before me, said to me, "You cannot assume that you will get roles because of your face. You

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must be an artist first. And then being Asian is something that you have in your bag of tricks." So I want you to study, full on study like any other student, but

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you must, for the sake of your future career, you must, yes, absolutely, you need to know King and I inside and out. You need to know Flower Drum Song inside and out.

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You need—so and she went through the list of musicals that I could possibly, at that time, be cast in and she was very diligent about a specific voice training that they were teaching there. And that this was also to be added, it was sort of like, to be

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added as a spice, not the main focus. I do think that probably she was right, I do think she was right, in that you don't teach a student for their skin tone, you know, you see the whole student.

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And then you say, “Well, you know, if you're a spinto soprano, this is your repertoire based on voice type.” And that's what she did for me. And so I have always been very grateful for her because I've never viewed myself as somebody who can only go in for

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Asian parts. You know, first of all, I don't look 100%. And I think, you know, you have to acknowledge that. And…because of that I–I feel very comfortable. Like the last audition I had, I was called in to sing

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a part in Sweeney Todd. And I had studied Sweeney Todd extensively, so that was not an issue. Do you know what I mean? Whereas if I had relied on like, well, I'm Asian, I'm only going to be cast as Asian,

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then that would have been a different conversation. So I think that school was really good. I played Joanne in Company, which is of course the alcoholic, lushy, se—almost pre-senior citizen, like senior

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citizen adjacent. I-I played, we did Jerry's Girls. And again, I played this kind of like Bette Midler type interpretation. And I think that that is honestly where my comfort level lies, I

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am more that swaggery, comedic, boozy, not the lead, the secondary lead, that's my type. That's my type. That's my type.

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But, you know, in terms of people, I am sometimes too much for people that expect me to come in and do what they call “be Asian.” Like, I'm not, that's not, you know, I

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have—I wasn't ever Kim. And I think that that was trying to put a square peg in a round hole to be perfectly honest. I was in the original Broadway company of

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Avenue Q and that was definitely my sense of humor. You know, for Christmas Eve, like even if, you know, if—and as time went by, I found out that Bobby Lopez was similar to me. And I think back on all

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the Christmas Eves that have been in the Broadway company, and I realized how many of them are mixed race. And Bobby and his wife have both been very open with me that that's like one of the, you

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know, the joys of his life, is to be able to kind of see everybody for the whole person they are, and not trying like, well, you're only half so you can't “this,” and you're only a quarter, so you can't—you know, he's really about, do they fit the part in every

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way they possibly can? And then, you know, like that. But they—he does believe that Christmas Eve should be Asian and–and obviously, so do I. So that, yes, school was great.

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It was tough. It was tough, like classical music education is not for everybody. And it's a—you know, I had some amazing teachers that I really value their opinion, I still hear their voices in my head.

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And when I feel like I'm tired or whatever, I for sure hear that like, little, you know, “Your heart is in the work.” And you're like, “Oh, fuck, yeah.” So yeah, absolutely. It's

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made—and it's—and, you know, I do think that they were ahead of the curve in accepting not just myself, but Margaret Gates was the class after me, there was somebody mixed in the class—it was kind

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of like, well, this mixed person did well. So why don't we take another one? Take a chance on another one? And I do think that that has infiltrated the department to make sure that–that

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multiracial people and or, you know, BIPOC students are welcome there, and they have an environment to thrive. I'm glad that you had so many great mentors. And are there any other mentors that you had

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throughout your career? I would say—so, he doesn't know this. I've never told him this. But like David Henry Hwang has

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actually had a big impact on myself because I was accepted into the David Henry Hwang Writer’s Institute at East West Players. And that was the first time I–I had tried to write anything, and then they

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gave me a scholarship, so after that for like, two semesters or something. And it was reading his plays and knowing that there could be people, not exactly like me obviously, but like, similar to me, that could

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thrive and be productive. That helped me and like, since—that helped me just mentally, because I was looking around, and obviously, there were not a lot of people like me. And I think the whole East West

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Players community, although I wasn't accepted by everybody obviously, but I think just knowing that they were there and being a part of it. And then I was also a part of the Lodestone community

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and the Lodestone community is kind of I think where I came into my own a lot, because nobody even mentioned it there. And nobody used it as like, well, she can't do this because—and I had backup, you

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know, like, I had the artistic directors like back me up and–and, you know, so when I got to Lodestone, and was everything perfect? No. Was every production perfect?

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No. But there were chances being taken, and there were risks being taken. And I was seeing the bounds of people from—so I would say, like, Lodestone and East West players, like, although I wouldn't necessarily look

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to one particular person, just the fact that they were there and they were encouraging helped me tremendously, you know? And I also had one, I did have one, John Lee, who was in the

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original Broadway cast of Flower Drum Song and he was mixed. I met him doing a play. And he was Korean and Irish, and I was Chinese and

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Irish. So I met him doing a play, obviously, I was like, in the ensemble, and he was the lead, but I-I met him and–and he kind of gave it to me brass tacks, you know, just like this is the business and this is what

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it is and, you know, and for probably like, three, four years, we were good friends. And I've always then looked to older performers that I have been lucky enough to meet, and we have, you know, we hang out,

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we chat. We, you know, it's like that's more where I feel accepted, than like these young kids, because these young kids think that they know everything once they graduate school or even when they're in school. And they'll quite, you know, they're

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very interested in telling me all about what I don't know, when the truth is, kid, I know, I can tell you some things, but I'm not going to, but okay. You know, you have to be in a place to listen.

00:30:17.790 - 00:30:32.160

And I think right now there—though there's a huge push for Asian performers and all that kind of stuff, it's—it doesn't pair with the real world, the opportunities that are available do not pair with the real world.

00:30:32.160 - 00:30:46.360

So you have to be realistic and I think a lot of them coming out of school do not want to hear that. So, you know, I give them time. But I do prefer to hang out with like, the old–the old, the OG's, for sure.

00:30:47.160 - 00:30:58.990

Like Tisa Chang, and all the, you know, like, I love Tisa. I love, you know, Alvin Ing. And, you know, it's just Amy Hill, all these people that are friends.

00:30:59.510 - 00:31:08.740

That's who I hang with, you know, I don't hang with the young kids anymore. I feel like I'm at that weird age where like, they're too young. And it's like a St.

00:31:08.740 - 00:31:18.020

Bernard puppy that I just don't have the energy for. It doesn't know it's like a 300-pound puppy. And you're like, "Oh my god. Stop. Stop."

00:31:19.660 - 00:31:32.430

But you do have a son named Liam, right? Who you do have to interact with. Yeah, yeah. I mean, Liam, Liam is very interesting because Liam is—his dad's Korean American.

00:31:34.140 - 00:31:52.570

So Liam is Irish, Chinese, Korean, primarily. And then like with that—whatever is in my DNA, and so he looks Asian, but his first cousins are little blonde girls. So he's growing up with a very different

00:31:52.910 - 00:32:06.950

experience than Sophie and Grace, but you wouldn't know it from how they treat each other. You know, the girls are just like, well, that's Liam, that's what he looks like, and–and Liam's the same way with

00:32:06.990 - 00:32:22.660

them. So it is encouraging to see this kind of acceptance and this kind of movement from people who are younger. So like, in that way, younger people do give me hope because they absolutely do not see things

00:32:22.660 - 00:32:35.940

the way things were seen when I was a kid. You know? So do you think things are changing now? I think there are more representations for younger kids to look to. Liam does do acting.

00:32:36.280 - 00:32:49.290

He has an agent. He's done a feature film, and he's done a national commercial. And so just even the fact that they are looking for him, and I'll–I’ll use this example: when he was like,

00:32:50.850 - 00:33:00.960

when he was crawling, right, that's the diaper age, right? He got, oh my god, so many auditions, he was a really cute baby. And he got so many auditions for diaper commercials.

00:33:01.840 - 00:33:10.850

And I would go, I’d bring him. And because like babies, they don't care. And like if somebody can film them doing a diaper commercial, and they can make $20,000,

00:33:11.110 - 00:33:25.450

fine, you know? And I bring him and he'd always get to the final, but they would never cast him. And a casting director came out to me, he was like, not even one. And she said, “Listen, he's really good at

00:33:25.470 - 00:33:37.630

this. He has a lot of talent. It may just be that that's not what people are looking for.” So then demographically, I had to look at like birth rate, and like for me, for me, the Fairy Princess, being crazy,

00:33:37.820 - 00:33:51.750

I was like, well who is—and I started to look at the diaper commercials and who was getting cast and it was Hispanic or Latinx, it was Black, and it was white. There were no Asian babies being cast in diaper commercials, not when he was—and that was nine years ago.

00:33:53.370 - 00:34:07.360

Since then, if you ask him, he'll be like, "I'm an actor, I do a million auditions." He has an audition probably once a week for different things. People are actively looking for Asian kids.

00:34:07.960 - 00:34:20.300

Not for every project, you know, but for a lot of projects. And he's, you know, he's been on Netflix, he's been—so for him, he's gonna grow up in a world where he can see himself.

00:34:21.950 - 00:34:36.120

I have told him, “I'm not crazy about you being an actor as an adult. Okay?” Because–because probably I'm Asian, but also because the realities of the business. And I said, but this is great for you as a younger person.

00:34:36.900 - 00:34:49.670

And he has really thrived knowing he has this talent, and that people can—I mean, when he's in the voiceover booth, he's like a different person. I'm like, "Who is this

00:34:49.720 - 00:35:04.380

child that can focus and–and give performances and take feedback from actual adults?" Like–like, what? I was so terrified the first time he did his first voiceover, ‘cause I was like, "This is gonna be a disaster." I don't, you know, like, I can't get him to stand still.

00:35:04.380 - 00:35:19.610

And he went in, he put the things on, he's like, "Yeah, okay." I mean, you would have thought he was 12 years old, he was six. So, he has the ability to look at a screen and see a depiction of an Asian character and then provide the

00:35:19.610 - 00:35:34.830

voice for that character, and that to me is amazing. That's it, he's gonna be completely less messed up than I am. He's gonna be, he's gonna have like a real shot at being

00:35:36.030 - 00:35:51.310

okay, in a way that people older than him really didn't. We are the people that have wrestled with our trauma and come through anyway because of–because of time and because of, you know, self-knowledge, but he's not going to have to

00:35:51.680 - 00:36:01.620

jump—hurdle those—he's not gonna have to jump those hurdles, and that to me is amazing. Like, I let him watch everything with Asians in it. Asian Americans in it.

00:36:02.870 - 00:36:15.990

Some people were like, "You let them watch Mortal Kombat?" I'm like, "Yes! Yes, I let him watch Mortal Kombat," because he's not seeing, like, I covered his eyes once or twice, but he—what he's seeing is he's seeing Lewis Tan, who's

00:36:16.140 - 00:36:28.730

like, he's like, "Oh, he's like you?" I'm like, "Yes, he is like me." He's like, "Oh, okay." You know, I let him watch Fresh Off the Boat when he was sick one day and home from school, and he just watched

00:36:28.730 - 00:36:42.310

episode after episode after episode. And I said, “You know, I know–I know Hudson.” I know—it’s like, so I was like, "Why are you watching that so much?" And he said, "Well, because they're like me.” He goes, “This is the first

00:36:42.310 - 00:36:55.400

time I've seen somebody like me.” Like a real person, like he's seen plenty of animated stuff, but not real depictions of Asian Americans, and who didn't have accents and who, you know, existed within America. And he

00:36:55.400 - 00:37:08.540

was, he could not get over that show. And, you know, it took till its last season really for it to kick in, because he was way too young when it started. But I think just even seeing yourself represented

00:37:10.080 - 00:37:28.860

is enormously satisfying and gratifying and it gives you a sense of where you fall within the United States. Yeah, that does sound very, very gratifying to seeing yourself in the media too, when you're growing up. And I know that you've referenced yourself just now as "the Fairy

00:37:28.890 - 00:37:42.960

Princess." Are—is Erin Quill and the Fairy Princess the same person? Does one come out sometimes? I think when I—so, the Fairy Princess is a blog I started nine years ago. And I know it's nine years

00:37:42.960 - 00:37:54.500

old because I wrote it when Liam was born. He just turned nine. So that's close to a decade. It—the Fairy Princess is me. I never hid that.

00:37:55.200 - 00:38:06.560

Erin Quill is the Fairy Princess. However, I wanted to write it in the third person so it didn't seem like a rant. Right? I wanted to use a lot of humor.

00:38:08.350 - 00:38:22.640

And I wanted to really talk about the core issues with this nom de plume, so that people didn't run around and be like, well, "Erin Quill says…" Because honestly, I know a lot of people.

00:38:23.110 - 00:38:40.120

So then it becomes their opinion of me as a person before they read the article and before they are open to the ideas within the article. So while I never said Erin Quill was not the Fairy Princess, I just said,

00:38:40.360 - 00:38:54.220

I just was kind of like, you know, I'm the Fairy Princess, I'm going to drop down and land some knowledge on you and flutter my wings and try and have a good time, sparkle dust everywhere. And, you know, it's definitely had an impact on

00:38:54.380 - 00:39:10.440

me in my career. It pretty much ended it for the first three years that the blog was out. And the first three years that it was out was when people were doing the most egregious yellow face casting and it

00:39:10.440 - 00:39:23.390

snowballed. I mean it just became its own thing. But I've never not been the Fairy Princess and the Fairy Princess has never not been me. It just simply was a device to help people understand that whatever Erin Quill thinks, that's fine.

00:39:23.910 - 00:39:35.350

But here's what the issue is. The issue is, you all thought it was fine to do The Mikado and paint everybody with bad paint and use crappy costumes.

00:39:35.690 - 00:39:51.500

And you have this resource and that resource and that res—I mean, the Fairy Princess has shut down productions, and I don't take that responsibility lightly. I think it is—it's a public

00:39:51.500 - 00:40:06.670

service. I don't allow advertising on the blog. And I don't allow—I don't have any sponsorships. Because of that, I just say what I want to say. And I think there's, again, it's me being in the middle.

00:40:06.670 - 00:40:14.640

It's like, it's tremendous power. Yes, I'm a performer, but don't listen to me because I'm a performer. Listen to me because this is the business. And this is what you're doing.

00:40:14.950 - 00:40:26.000

And this is how you're hurting people, and this is how we fix it. You know, I've written about the all Asian-Americans Show Boat that NAAP

00:40:26.090 - 00:40:36.730

wanted to do, which was ridiculous. That's like, you know, you can't take a show about miscegenation, and then apply it to Asian-Americans. That doesn't, that we don't have the same issues.

00:40:37.350 - 00:40:50.670

We don't borrow other people's trauma in order to just create a show that has fun dances, you think? And that cost me professionally and personally, I definitely lost a lot of friends about that, but it was

00:40:50.690 - 00:41:07.710

the right thing to do. I've written about Screen Actors Guild, and–and they're dismantling pretty much their health insurance plan. I've written about actors’ equity and all that. I—it's not solely about Asian American Pacific

00:41:08.390 - 00:41:24.520

Islanders, but it is what I hope is a moral voice as we all try to wade through this morass of entertainment. Particularly now is a time of change, so people are

00:41:26.150 - 00:41:42.260

voicing some ideas that maybe seem okay in the shower or seem okay in the car, but when you get down to the brass tacks of are we going to produce this kind of thing? It's not a great—they're not, they're not great ideas, the–the honest execution

00:41:42.260 - 00:41:54.000

of those ideas can really screw everything up. And, you know, you have to, you have to look at the history of time and where we are and how this is acceptable or not acceptable. And so the Fairy Princess

00:41:54.000 - 00:42:05.860

is Erin Quill, but it is a side of Erin Quill, that probably should have gone to law school, right? Because that's how it's written. It's written like a law brief.

00:42:06.340 - 00:42:23.140

And it has humor, but it has definite points. And it has led to me being on a lot of panels for Broadway Con, for LA Stage Day, where else…like different

00:42:23.140 - 00:42:37.470

colleges I’ve been asked to speak at, that kind of thing. And most of the time people are—I spoke at a music theater conference and that was not the audience to hear about diversity and inclusion.

00:42:38.510 - 00:42:56.600

Holy mother of wow. Like people started standing up and just honestly screaming back at me. And, you know, you cannot like what I have to say, that doesn't mean that it's not

00:42:57.050 - 00:43:11.920

valid and it doesn't mean that I'm not right. It has to be acknowledged that the United States is changing, the population is changing, the wherewithal of your student body is

00:43:11.920 - 00:43:31.350

changing. People are looking to different productions on Broadway and different, you know, films and stuff and seeing, “Hey, possibly, this is a path for me.” And how do we initiate that conversation with primarily white institutions who are very, very

00:43:31.410 - 00:43:44.630

comfortable saying, “Well, we don't have all the students to do Miss Saigon. But that's okay. We'll just put them in a, you know, we'll just put them in a black wig.” Well, no, you—no. Just don't do that show.

00:43:45.300 - 00:44:02.600

Don't do that show. You know, I believe that institutions should pick productions that they intend to do after thoroughly looking at their student body and acknowledging the different ways their students identify and trying to, you know, honor that,

00:44:03.090 - 00:44:20.590

as opposed to again, shooing somebody into an ethnicity or a background that they don't share, that they feel uncomfortable doing, and that they honestly will get attacked for later. You know, you're setting kids up, and I think it is not

00:44:21.460 - 00:44:31.240

right to do those shows if you don't have the students to do them. I get that everybody likes Hairspray. If you have no black students,

00:44:31.240 - 00:44:47.460

don't do Hairspray. And don't say, “Oh, but we have a lot of Asians.” That's not our story. So you can have one or two in the ensemble, maybe. But no, you should not have an entire cast of Hairspray that's white and Asian.

00:44:47.460 - 00:45:00.630

That's just not acceptable. And you know, and again In the Heights, I remember there was somebody who was doing In The Heights and he was—everybody was like, well, he's Middle Eastern, so it's okay. No, it's not okay.

00:45:01.780 - 00:45:15.550

Usnavi should not be Middle Eastern. He could be mixed race, Middle Eastern and Latinx. But Usnavi is not a Middle Eastern name, right? And so you want to honor what the creatives intended.

00:45:16.590 - 00:45:29.140

You want to honor their intent. You know, but even as much as we say that, you know, how many times has Bobby Lopez been asked, “Does Christmas Eve really have to be Asian?” He's sick of answering it! I'm sick of answering it.

00:45:29.180 - 00:45:44.460

Like, it is. Yes. You know, there are certain parts that have to be played by certain people. And–and I honestly, I don't understand why people don't get it. I think it's collective insistence

00:45:44.940 - 00:46:00.770

that we adhere to whiteness and the way whiteness gets to be the deciding factor. And I, as somebody who is white, who maybe has seen a lot of privilege up close and

00:46:00.770 - 00:46:16.180

personal, but was not afforded any, I feel that I can speak to that without people going crazy. Because, you know, my inherent objection is

00:46:16.220 - 00:46:31.570

that you have to look if—it's the same as my dad looking at me and saying, “You look just like me,” and not seeing that I am not what he sees. The world does not see what he sees.

00:46:32.100 - 00:46:45.160

The world sees somebody that is mixed, mixed Asian, right? It's not, you know, you love your kids, you want them to look just like you. You want them to, you know, but that's not the way the world is.

00:46:45.560 - 00:47:06.410

And yeah, I think that universities and the theatre community at large needs to understand how damaged the BIPOC communities are right now, how fractured they are, and

00:47:06.410 - 00:47:21.690

how the voices that are crying out are not crying out because…they are crying out because of trauma, but they're crying out because of trauma that's revisited upon them every single day they walk into a white space and

00:47:21.940 - 00:47:38.990

are gaslit. Every single time they're asked to "Oh, it's just a joke." Every time they're asked to "just understand the joke," or every time they are–are questioned. You know, my husband, who is an AD for Adventure

00:47:39.430 - 00:47:54.910

Theater at the current moment, he said to me, “I used to think you were making it up with how often, you know, people would get in your face,” he–he said. And then I started paying attention, and my husband's a six

00:47:54.910 - 00:48:06.450

foot Korean guy. Nobody questions him. He's also a black belt, like he’s a two-degree black belt. So there's no—like, if–if–if Chil gets mad at you, you're gonna know, right?

00:48:06.510 - 00:48:20.740

And–and frankly, I've seen him stand up and be this big, football kind of looking guy. And the arguments have absolutely ended, right, just by his mere physical—he gets up, and then he gets up and up and up.

00:48:20.840 - 00:48:32.010

And people are like, "Oh, yeah, I don't want to mess with him." With me, because of stereotypes, because of films, because of television, I am automatically discounted,

00:48:32.290 - 00:48:50.140

I'm automatically questioned. If I even voice a different opinion, people jump on me: “Well, that's not what it could be.” That's what it is, you know? White academic institutions have a lot of catching up to

00:48:50.140 - 00:49:11.000

do. It is on their—it is–it is for their future relevance, and also for the relevance to their students who are meant to go out and represent universities, and meant to be good graduates and representatives

00:49:11.000 - 00:49:25.290

of the school. You know, I can look at my classmates, from the time I was there. One of them is Billy Porter, you know, who's changing everything right now, who

00:49:25.290 - 00:49:39.560

I look to and, you know, love. Ming-na is another person that I look to and love, you know, all these people that had to put up with a lot, even though our

00:49:40.030 - 00:49:52.560

institution was a loving and welcoming place. It could have been better, absolutely it could have been better. You know, all college experiences can be better. So why aren't they?

00:49:53.000 - 00:50:02.300

I now currently work in a college and they told me that they wanted so much input and all that kind of stuff. I am the only person of color on staff.

00:50:03.190 - 00:50:17.240

And yet, I went in to direct something and the all-white stage management team had a giant shit-fit. And I stepped away from the production because they couldn't handle my calling them out on their bad

00:50:17.240 - 00:50:32.810

behavior. So as much as—but up and down, they'll release diversity statements, they will say all the right things, then they sent me a thing like, “Please join us for a creation of safe spaces.” I'm like,

00:50:35.000 - 00:50:46.690

“Where was my safe space?” I needed the safe space. Like, are you kidding? Are you kidding right now? So currently, I'm looking for another job. But it is—but it's so convenient, like right around the

00:50:46.690 - 00:50:57.890

corner. And I–and I can pick my kid up from school. So it's like, I'm kind of stuck a little bit. But yeah, for sure. Academia is a problem.

00:50:58.590 - 00:51:13.190

Speaking at that music theater conference was, I mean, I was shaking afterwards because they were just so virulent. And then I was on the panel with BD Wong. And BD was, I said to somebody, I was like, “Well, people would say I'm not Asian.” BD

00:51:13.190 - 00:51:25.260

turned around and was like, “Yeah, you're not.” And I was like, “Don't help me, motherfucker. Like, really? I spend New Year's with you. Stop, stop.

00:51:25.610 - 00:51:39.380

That's not actually what's needed here.” So yeah, everything needs to change. And the truth is, nobody wants to change, that's the problem. Broadway doesn't want to change and become more

00:51:39.500 - 00:51:51.190

inclusive, because that's not where they make their money. Academia doesn't want to become more inclusive because that would necessitate changing of staff and changing policies and diversifying what

00:51:51.240 - 00:52:05.410

they teach and how they teach. So I'm hopeful, but I honestly don't think it's going to happen. It's going to take, I think, another generation before these changes are

00:52:05.460 - 00:52:32.040

implemented. I will say I–I do think that you are making a change and I'm really glad that you are. And what would you say is the proudest moment in your career? This one has nothing to do with academics or–or performance.

00:52:32.520 - 00:52:43.540

Actually, one of the proudest moments I had was when I wrote a piece for a comic book. And it was published in a comic book

00:52:43.540 - 00:52:55.650

anthology and animated by Marvel artists for Puerto Rican reconstruction. And the comic is called Reconstruction by Edgar Miranda Rodriguez, no relation to Lin.

00:52:57.400 - 00:53:13.450

And that, for me, was huge because I— there's a character, La Borinquena, which is his superhero, who is mixed race. She's Dominican and Chinese. And he said, "Could you write something for

00:53:14.240 - 00:53:27.750

La Borinquena?" And I was like, "Well, I–I don't want to write for the Puert—" He goes, "No, no, no, her–her best friend Lala." And so I wrote this piece called Lala's Family Dinner. And when it was published and sent to me, I thought that—I was like, this

00:53:27.750 - 00:53:43.080

is it. This is the coolest thing I've ever, ever done. But in terms of performance, I—one of the fun, most fun things was working with John Mulaney on Sack Lunch Bunch. That was like, he was super chill and

00:53:43.080 - 00:53:57.580

into it. And I thought he was great. And he does have a mixed-race writer that's his BFF that helps write that with him. And so I was encouraged to see that because I was like, “Oh, that's—okay, now I get it.”

00:53:57.580 - 00:54:10.630

Because the little girl hired to be my daughter, also mixed race. So I was like, we look like that writer’s family. I get it. And I worked on Damages with Glenn Close.

00:54:11.080 - 00:54:19.660

And we got to talking on the set and she called me the next day and asked me a question. That was a pretty proud moment. I think my–my proudest moments

00:54:19.690 - 00:54:37.610

are honestly when–when somebody who is higher up on the food chain than I am, as a performer, comes and says, "Thank you for your work,” or, you know, “This was absolutely the right way to go.” Because

00:54:37.680 - 00:54:54.300

I am not easily castable for most things. I don't tick those diversity boxes in the way people honestly expect—want them to be ticked. You know, I was in both CBS and Fox's diversity

00:54:55.070 - 00:55:08.530

showcases and one of the—and both times, my scene partners went on to have amazing, brilliant careers, like Masi Oka and the other guy was—wound up being in Avatar and stuff.

00:55:08.740 - 00:55:23.280

And each time I had the strongest theater background, I had the stronger staging background, and I had the most positive response from the people that were in the room. But because showbusiness was not where people honestly were

00:55:23.280 - 00:55:37.900

accepting of–of my look, I didn't really get hired, I didn't get a huge bounce off of that, except every executive in town knew my name. So you know, those diversity showcases have changed, are

00:55:37.950 - 00:55:51.320

changing, like, definitely going different places now, but when I—back in the day, I didn't get a huge bump off it, but I got to watch everybody I worked with go on to television and film and have long careers.

00:55:51.700 - 00:56:02.930

So I think my proudest moments are–are quiet. You know, they're—my proudest moments are being in rehearsal with people. Oh, I have one of them.

00:56:03.670 - 00:56:18.450

I just remembered. So I did Dave with Tina Landau, in DC. And Dave was something that I—a musical that I did the first workshop with. And I thought at the time, because there was all this celebrity talent in the room, and at

00:56:18.450 - 00:56:34.670

the time, I thought, “Well, this is it.” I've, you know, if I can walk into a room with Marin Mazzie, and the guy that played Nigel on Frasier, and you know, like, if that's—David Hyde Pierce—if I can walk into a room with them

00:56:34.790 - 00:56:50.740

and work with them, that's–that's the biggest thing. And then, over the course of many years and many workshops, I actually got to go back and do the production. And then the way Tina envisioned it, she gave

00:56:50.980 - 00:57:06.200

us—we were reporters, and we didn't have, you know, we had a line here, a line there. And then she said, “Well, the way we're going to do it is everybody's going to be on these giant screens, and the screens are going to go like this across the stage for transitions.” And

00:57:07.450 - 00:57:17.800

I didn't realize until my friend came to see a dress rehearsal, he was like, "Dude, you're all over this show." And I was like, “What?” And we had filmed all those in pre-production.

00:57:18.130 - 00:57:32.790

So I didn't realize that this character who I created was, yes, Asian-American, was, yes, speaking as a reporter with no accent, but also based on ideas that I came up with, based on the

00:57:34.010 - 00:57:47.700

attitudes I have, you know, from watching just our news, you know, news just around. And she became a ballbuster through the course of this show, where when she

00:57:48.560 - 00:58:00.190

was conceived, she wasn't. She was just like a nameless reporter, but now she has a name, she has a point of view. And–and that was all because Tina Landau looked and saw something and asked

00:58:00.800 - 00:58:12.830

us all to help create our own thing, so that we all are not just an ensemble, but we are a remarkable showcase of individual performers. And that–that honestly, I guess, is my proudest moment.

00:58:15.260 - 00:58:28.290

That is a really great moment. And as we're wrapping up here, are there any final words or anything that I haven't covered? I think that whistleblowers, which I guess I am, are

00:58:29.190 - 00:58:36.920

necessary, right? We're necessary because we have to change the dialogue. And it's not always easy to be a whistleblower.

00:58:38.650 - 00:58:49.380

You know, there can be enormous consequences. People make judgments about you before they know you. People refuse to

00:58:49.380 - 00:59:06.250

work with you be—based on something they think you are, as opposed to who they—who you actually are. I'm actually really good to work with. But most people who just know me from The Fairy Princess Diaries would think I'm really difficult and temperamental and have a lot of,

00:59:06.970 - 00:59:22.220

you know, anger, and I actually don't. I just want people to acknowledge that what they have done in entertainment to Asian American Pacific Islanders and Asian American Pacific Islander

00:59:23.400 - 00:59:36.550

women and men, like the men have been emasculated and they have been relegated to assistant positions, right? And they have been made

00:59:36.550 - 00:59:50.490

fun of, they’re—to the extent that every kid knows that there's one way you can annoy an Asian American Pacific Islander male and that's to question their masculinity and the size of their genitals and

00:59:50.490 - 01:00:07.920

all that kind of stuff. And–and to women, they have made us objects of both desire, and then pity, and then they've taken away our humanity to the point

01:00:08.330 - 01:00:22.030

where it is really difficult to transcend that. I honestly know very few Asian American Pacific Islander female actors that have been able to transition out of

01:00:22.790 - 01:00:39.080

these subjectory roles. And I think Hollywood and Broadway and theater and academia need to account for that. I think they need to turn around and say, “What have we done to reinforce these stereotypes?

01:00:39.150 - 01:00:57.270

What have we done to negate people's humanity and to erase the need to actually know people by our work?” Because it is by their work that we have been the subject of catchphrases, the subject of

01:00:58.500 - 01:01:13.670

attacks, I think. I think Hollywood and television and film and Broadway, I think they're all to be held accountable. And I don't honestly know how they are going to move forward if they don't start

01:01:13.710 - 01:01:27.040

changing things, but I do know that there is a generation of people who are going to continue to hold them accountable, myself included, and try to push for those things, but then the way they push back is not hiring us.

01:01:27.520 - 01:01:42.250

So it is not just on us, the ones that are speaking up. It is also on the ones that follow us, that are building on the–on the work that we have already established, to keep in mind these

01:01:42.300 - 01:01:57.400

lessons and to not forget that right now, in America, no matter how long your family has been here, no matter what kind of accent you do or do not have, Americans have been conditioned that

01:01:58.610 - 01:02:14.130

Asian American Pacific Islanders are here on a conditional basis. And we don't need to prove our worth or prove our validity for being here or being

01:02:14.130 - 01:02:25.990

citizens. But what we do need to do is stand up and say, “You know what? Here's what, you know, birthright citizenship was actually established by a Chinese American.

01:02:26.590 - 01:02:42.170

Okay? There—you know, the 13th amendment is why you're a citizen if you're born here. Okay? The conti—Transcontinental Railroad would not have been finished without us, and you blew us up.” We need to be armed with our

01:02:42.200 - 01:02:55.660

history. And not just like a specific history, but like a history across America to combat these kind of stereotypes and these kind of erasures. And then also not put the pressure on ourselves to be perfect,

01:02:56.830 - 01:03:06.460

right? Who the hell cares if you got an A in math? I didn't get an A in math, I am terrible at math. Terrible! Literally, nobody wants me to deal with math in any way.

01:03:06.510 - 01:03:20.300

I can't even do it with a calculator. Okay? But–but, you know, anytime there's something like, well, “Can you figure out the tip, no, motherfucker, I can't, I cannot figure out the tip, I just double the tax.” That's what happens.

01:03:20.680 - 01:03:38.040

You know, we have to not lean in so much to the ideas and expectations of what have been told are part of our myth, right? We have to know our history. And we also have to know when to put it aside and just be ourselves, and I think

01:03:38.060 - 01:03:52.370

that's something that everybody struggles with. I have seen it across the board. I have—I've been on Tik Tok lately, and I've been looking at all the mixed-race kids and the Asian kids and–and I just–I just feel, I feel so many

01:03:52.370 - 01:04:08.900

things for all the expectations that they have been forced to adhere to, at the same time feeling like nobody is seeing them at all. And I think that's intrinsic on all of us, as Asian American Pacific Islander actors, creatives,

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writers, professors, doctors, lawyers, whatever, to tell our children and the young people we have in our life, you can be whatever you want. You can do whatever you want.

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Don't buy into other people's expectations of you based—that they've been force fed based on entertainment, because entertainment is a myth. It's a myth that was created by Jewish people who didn't want to be Jewish.

01:04:44.290 - 01:05:00.080

It—so many people have been asked to change to be in entertainment, right? Their names, their heritages, their features. You know, it's a myth. And what we have to do is look at it and see it for what it is, as opposed

01:05:00.540 - 01:05:13.140

to trying to take on and change ourselves for it, because that's never gonna happen. You know, we just have to be cool with who we are. And that would be–that

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would be my hope for Asian American Pacific Islanders, that you all know that acting and music and everything, it's kind of bullshit. We're good at it. We can make a living from it.

01:05:29.120 - 01:05:43.860

We love it. But at the end of the day, it's not where you should take any sort of lead or information from or–or information about who you are, who you're supposed to be.

01:05:45.630 - 01:05:56.890

That's what I would say. That's a really powerful message and I really appreciate you coming to speak with us today. Thank you. Thank you for having me. Bye.