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Okay. So, today is Sunday, April 8th, and we’re here to interview Mr. Eric Shin. My name is Ko Choi. And I’m Wanna Zhang. And we are interviewing him on behalf of the Chao Center for Asian Studies at

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Rice University. So, to begi— to begin the interview, umm… would you introduce yourself, and give us a brief interview ? Okay. So, my name is Eric.

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And uh… I am a pastor at New Life Fellowship. And I came to the States in 1978 when I was thirteen years old. And I came to New York City.

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And uh… I grew up in New York and went to school in upstate New York and went to graduate school in Boston area. And I uh came down to Houston to serve as a pastor in this church in 1994, so it’s been more than

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seventeen years that I’ve been here in the city of Houston. I’m married, and I have three sons: 15, 17, and 19 years old. So, why did your parents decide to immigrate, immigrate to America? Uh… Probably for two reasons.

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One is my parents uh… they were, they were born in North Korea. And they fled uh during Korean War, Korean War. And that was always on the back of my dad’s mind. And then he didn’t wanna go through another war, seeing his children going through the

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tragedy that he went through. And second is, the possibility of studying, the opportunity to study, um here in the States. So, um, did anything happen after you passed through Customs and Immigration as like a North Korean?

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I mean—it was during the war… No, it was my, it was my parents in 1950 that they uh…fled when there was a war going on. But then when we came to the States, we just came as Green Card holders.

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My uh, my mother’s younger sister was already a cit— citizen. And she came to the States in 1960, and she was the one who invited us to come. So, we already had green cards and everything. So, there was nothing that happened when we went through the

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customs. Um hmm. So, what did your parents do for a living? So, when uh we were in Korea, my dad was an owner of a factory that had about maybe forty, fifty employees. And then when he came to the States, uh he started out as a,

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a golf retail storeowner uh in Manhattan. And then after that, uh just like uh many Korean first generation immigrants uh usually did back then, he ended up owning a dry cleaner’s, so they had the dry cleaners for a while, for ten-plus years and,

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and then retired. So, did they face any problems in their workplace, or…? Uhh…yeah, like, especially when they owned um dry cleaners. The local neighbors would come, and many of

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them were very appreciative of the service that my parents provided. But there were, there were a few, who would come and just uh take advantage of my parents’, you know, broken English and… And a couple of times, they got

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robbed, you know, by people in that area. So, they did go through uh some of the hardships. So, in… So, could you talk to us more about your first job? And so, I came when I was thirteen, like I said.

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And my uh mother’s younger sister, who invited us to come, she was a very hard worker. She got her Bachelor’s in Korea and master’s at the University of Minnesota in Social Work. And she knew the American system really well and that she wanted,

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you know. I have three older sisters and one younger brother. So, she wanted all these nieces and nephews that she invited to come to the States to work…understand the meaning of, you know, hard work. So, she told us about how, in America, like typically

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people have summer job. The teenagers have summer job. And nobody just, you know, spends their, their time in a very idle way. And so umm.., when I was fourteen, during summer time, I remember following my mother to a

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sweatshop. And it was a uh kinda like a lady’s dress making type of a factory. And then, I was asked to uh clean up the dresses when the women, the seamstresses, made the dresses, and after that, I had

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to put the plastic package on top of it, and then get those ready to be shipped. And so, uh probably went to work early in the morning, and then we finished at six o’clock or so.

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So, it was good 10, 11-hour work. And I probably made about maybe $2.10, that was the minimum wage back then. But I was thrilled to uh make my own money when I was fourteen.

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So, this happened during the summer, not during the school year, or…? During the summer, yeah, often times, usually during the summer time, we, I—I worked, three straight months. Man, during the school year, you know, I would just study. And, possibly—when I became sixteen, I remember

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tutoring a—a kid, who needed help with homework and stuff. So, on your um pre-interview, you said that you moved around in the country a lot. Why was that? For school purposes.

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So, um graduated from this high school in New York City in 1983. And then after that, I went to uh this small institute, Bible Institute in uh Southern California, so I was there for 1 year.

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And then, I came back home and served at my church for about half year, and then I went to State University of New York up in Binghamton. And I got my Bachelor’s there. And then after that, I went to the seminary up in Boston

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area. And then after that, I came down to Houston, so... Um… So, what were some of your childhood memories, yeah… anything interesting?

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Here in the States? Yes. Here in the States. Oh… I was a teen, so I wasn’t, I wasn’t a little child. But I was a teenager. And, you know, as a teenager, you’re really sensitive, right?

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Because you are going through puberty years. And you are very sensitive about what is happening to your body and then, you know, just uh external stuff. And uh when I came, I

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couldn’t speak the English, speak the language really well. And right now, you know, this nation has become very uh diverse and heterogeneous, all kinds of ethnic groups living in this country. But, back in 1978, even in New York

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City that’s known for being very diverse, you know, Asians were very, very uh hard to come by. You know, and so, when I ca.., when I went to school, middle school, seventh grader, not that many kids, whether they’d be white or

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black, not that many kids were exposed to uh Asian people. So, they were very fascinated. And there were some good kids, who try to come along side of me and help me with uh with homework and, you know, classes.

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But there were some not so good kids, who made fun of me. And it was almost every day that I would hear people calling me names. And ‘Go back to China.’ You know, and I’ll tell them, you know, ‘I’m not Chinese, I’m Korean.’ And to

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them, they don’t really matter, whether I’m Korean or Chinese. We are all Asian, so it was, it was not really fun going to school, especially when I was 7th and 8th grader—7th, 8th, and 9th. And I got into few fights.

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And then even one day, I got suspended. And so my, my dad was asked to come by the assistant principal. And then, I remember the look that my dad had on his face, and when he

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was taken to the assistant principal’s office and on the way back home. You know, he just sighed a lot. And uh he uh just didn’t like the fact that I got into fights, and I got suspended. You know, I got suspended just for one day, but still.

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You know, my dad brought the family here for us to study, but when his kids were not adjusting well to—to language barrier and stuff. I’m sure, that it really pained him, you know and...

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And you know, at times, you know, not only did they make fun of me. But I, one time, I actually got spat at, you know, by this white student, you know. When I was in the restroom, and then just from

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behind, he just spat at me and walked away. So, you know…that was not really pleasant…three years that I was in middle school. And I hated everybody. I hated white people, I hated black people,

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and I hated Chinese, I hated Japanese. And I just had a huge Korean pride, you know. But I think it was because of the insecurity that I had, you know. And it comes from loneliness.

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You wanna use it as a defense mechanism, by being arrogant and prideful about your ethnic background. But, life was not easy back then. What changed in high school?

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High school. So, very interestingly, uh in the 70s there weren’t that many Korean people immigrating to the United States. But all of sudden, in 1981, ‘82 there was a huge influx of Korean immigrants coming uh to New York

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City, and many of them had kids. And when I went to high school, I went into this Korean speaking – Koreans that just came from Korea. So, I was able to relate to them, and then feel like, ‘yes, I’m not the only one, you know, here

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in school.’ So, I took some comfort in number, and then, you know, familiar faces, and familiar language, and way of doing things. So, it was, it was, it was a little bit easier. Was the huge influx caused by…I remember um in the 90s maybe

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a lot of Koreans wanted to come to America because, because they thought it was what the wealthy people did, and they wanted to get the education– was it because of the – that American dream, or...?

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I think, I think that happened in the 80s, I think. That happened in the 80’s. But then, when Korea started to do really well, actually there was a reverse immigration taking place.

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People in the United States actually going back to Korea to live there in the 90s. But I think that huge influx was taking place in the 80s for, you know, pursuing after American Dream.

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So, I mean, this might be a little bit private, but um were you involved in the LA riots? No. No. No. I was… Was I?

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What year, what year was the LA riot? 1992. ‘91. ‘91, ‘92, yeah. No, I was not there. I was, I was in LA from ‘83 to ‘84. So, do you remember like the media coverage?

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Do you remember anything about it? Yeah, I uh, I uh heard the news, and I read the articles here and there. And what I remember is, you know, because of these police officers beating up this African

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American person. All of sudden, you know, African Americans were just uh rising up and retaliating. What I heard and what I read was, they were going to go this

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particular area where there were a lot of white people. But it was a block – there was a blockade. And there weren’t able to go, so many of these people ended up, I think, turning to Koreatown and Korean uh business owners, and

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they started to loot and just rob, you know, everything. And so it was very unfortunate. I don’t know why that had to do with Korean, uh you know, immigrants were just making their living.

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Granted, that some of these people were just really taking things, taking and making money profiting from African American communities and not giving back to the community as much.

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But still, you know, I don’t know why the Korean immigrants actually got involved and became victims of the LA riots, you know, when it was the white police officers actually, you know, really abused this uh black person.

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So, it was pretty unfortunate, I think. But I, but I was told that even though Korean American, small owner, small business owners, who actually took care of these black people in their neighborhood, black people themselves were the ones who said, ‘Do not do

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anything, you know, to this particular store because the owner of this store is very nice to us, and so…’ Um…Do you remember experiencing any like culture shocks through school, I mean…?

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A few things, you know. When I came to the States, like it was co-ed middle school. And I was going through all boys’ middle school in Korea.

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So, one time, I accidentally went into a women’s bathroom, you know because not, I didn’t know there was a women’s bathroom in the school period. And I remember three girls looking at me, and then there was one Korean girl that I amazingly knew in Korea, but she was in the

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same middle school. And she asked me, ‘Did you go to women’s bathroom yesterday?’ And I remember being very humiliated. That happened. Second thing is, in Korea, like uh because of Confucianism, there is

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a hierarchy, where the, the younger have to respect the older. And students have to respect the teachers, but when I came in the middle school, I saw these kids putting their feet on their, on their desk and throwing papers at each other.

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And the teacher just could not control these students, and I was really shocked. How come they are not getting spanked, you know, the way that I used to get, you know when I was in Korean, you know Korean school in Korea.

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That was pretty uh, kind of like a shocking, you know, incident for me. So, um you said that you had a lot of Korean pride. So, did that not turn against the American teachers at

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all, or…? No, but—but—but because of this value system that I grew up with, where the students have to respect the teachers. I always respected my teachers. There was no animosity, you know, or, you know just bitter feelings

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towards the teachers. Teachers for the most part, they were very, very nice to me, and they sort of take care of you. It was students who actually uh made fun of me. So, there was a, a good amount of a really resentment and

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bitterness towards people, who are other than my own race. Back then. So, are you an American citizen now? Yeah, I am an American citizen. And when people ask me what uh I think I am, I always

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tell them, ‘I am an American, who happens to have, who happens to have a Korean heritage.’ So, I’m an American first. I’ve—I’ve lived in this nation for 34 years, you know. So, I consider this as my country.

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And I’m an American citizen, who just happens to have a Korean ethnic background. And you know I always tell people, ‘I don’t know what I’m gonna do, who I’m gonna root for if U.S.

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and Korean soccer teams compete for World Cup Soccer.’ I think I’ll be torn. And but people who are Korean Americans who live in Korea, I mean live in United States, when they hear me saying stuff like this, they are shocked because for them, they

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automatically, you know, root for Koreans, even though they are American citizens. But I differ, you know. I mean, I love this nation, and I am so thankful to this country.

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And I benefited so much. And there is no nation like this, you know. And I’ve been to many different nations because of my mission trip experiences, but there is no nation like this.

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So, I am deeply grateful for America. And I’m really proud that I am an American citizen. So, what made you change from Korean pride to American pride? Yes, so, you know, I’m a pastor.

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It has to do with Christian faith. And you know, until college, I just didn’t like this nation. I just hated this country, hated these people. And I was just getting fed up with people just making fun of

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uh Asians. And, you know, so, I thought all the Americans were like this, whether they were white or black. But when I went to divinity, when I went seminary, is a, is a graduate school, where you get trained to be a pastor.

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When I went to seminary, called Gordon—Conwell Theological Seminary, there for the first time, I met these white and black people, who were sincere and generous Christians. And they were different, how they treated me, how they

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responded to me made a difference between the treatment that I got from middle school and high school classmates. And I realized that it is the love of God, it is Jesus Christ that they have, and they uh worship that is causing

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them to be very different, and I was so amazed. Wow, you know. Where were all these people? Where were all these great, you know, white American and black American who transcended these

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ethnic differences and just saw people for who they are? They are always there, but I was always blinded. I couldn’t see these people because I was being so narrow-minded, and my circle of friends was not big enough.

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And when I finally got exposed to uh the Christian world that is beyond Korean American community, I, for the first time realized that man, you know they are awesome, white people, black people, you know.

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And again, they were Christians, so... That really changed me. If people have God, if people have the love, have the love of Jesus, and people do change. And ever since then, I

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haven’t been the same. So, since you moved around a lot, I mean you identify yourself as an American, but would you, do you have like ties to one specific state, or not? People, people always label me as a person from New York.

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So, I…they, they see me as a person from northeast. And I do relate, you know to New York City, and I feel very close to New England because I lived in New York for uh…6 years and then New England for 6 years.

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So, those two places are very dear to me. But I will –because where I landed, you know when I came to the States, it was New York City. You know, I think the very first place you

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kind of feel like that’s your hometown, so… Even though I’ve lived in Houston for seventeen years, and I, I, I like this city for the most part. For the most part? Yeah, for the most part.

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But I think I still kind of like see myself, and other people see me as a person from New York City. Um, so, going back to college, so what did study in college? I studied history and philosophy.

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Um did—Why did you want to study history and philosophy? You know, this is uh again this Christian faith, uh you know, as I started to walk very closely with God in my high school years.

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Deep in my heart, I kinda sensed that one of these days, I probably will go into full-time ministry, for God—serving God, and uh you know people around me, shared with me that if you want to go into full—time

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ministry you probably have to study history and philosophy because seminaries kinda similar in that you gotta read a lot, you know. And you have to know your history, you have to know these philosophers, you know, so,

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that’s why I kinda like majored in history and philosophy, just to prepare myself in case that I do end up going to seminary. So, um, how did you... how did you join, how did you become a Christian in high school?

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I mean, some people I know first become, I mean, kinda get closer to the Christian community because of the community feel and not really because of the religion.

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Was that like that for you, or...? I, I always went to church ever since when I was 5 years old, and umm... my mother was a very strong devout Christian, and my father was not...

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Even my father had Christian exposure and influence because his uh grandfather, my great—grandfather was an assistant to the missionary that came to his village, so they had—he had a Christian faith exposure but, you know, because my mom was a strong Christian, I always went to

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church ever since I was 5. And uh my uh aunt who asked us to come to the States, she’s a pastor’s wife. So, when we came to the city, we started to go to the church that my uncle was pastor in.

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So I always grew up in church, and I always thought that I was a Christian. But then, you know without going in detail, you know, just because you are going to a Christian – church does not mean you are a Christian, you know.

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According to the Bible that I read, you know, it says you have to personally receive Jesus Christ into your heart to become a Christ follower. You know, and I of course that going again experience and I thought I was a Christian because I grew up in church.

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But it was not until I was 18 that I had a conversion experience, where I for... for the first time realized that I am a sinner, who broke God’s law. Now, I, I

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thought I was a pretty good person until then, but when I was 18, right before I started my senior year in high school. I went to this retreat, and then I realized that I was sinner, who didn’t do what God wanted me to do, and who did

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the things that God didn’t want me to do. So, I broke you know God’s law and there for the first time realized that I am in need for God’s forgiveness. So when I was eighteen, I finally had a conversion experience.

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So from then on, it’s been uh you know there were times when I went up and I also went down, but it’s been pretty consistent that I lived my life as a Christ follower.

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So, you said you went to church since you were five years old? Mm-hm. When you came over to America, and I mean people were being really racist towards you, did that not help, did Christianity not help, or?

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You know but, I don’t... Fortunately or unfortunately uh because my uncle was a Korean American, the church that he was pastor in was a Korean church, where all these Korean immigrants came. That was prob—that was I

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think was, that was the largest or second largest Korean church back then. And so, when I went to church, it was all Korean. So, you know, you feel very comfortable around your own race. Right? Mm-hm. So, there was no, there was no discrimination, but you know, even in

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that church the youth that I was going to, it was kinda sorta separated between those kids, who uh, who were much more comfortable with English and then the, the kids who just came from Korea.

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Right? So there were two separate groups, and there wasn’t any animosity, but uh they didn’t really, kinda like get along or they didn’t take care of each other. So, there was little bit of – separation even in the church.

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I mean, wouldn’t it have been beneficial though if they kinda integrated and taught you English? Sure. I mean. Oh yeah. But, little kids are immature. You know, and then if you don’t have a strong youth group leader or

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pastor who really pushes everyone to integrate, then people, uh creatures of comfort, you do whatever is comfortable, you know, for you. So, if you feel comfortable with hanging out with certain group of people, that’s all you gonna

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do. And going back to college again, did you join any clubs or organizations? See. I—I told you until graduate school, I was all, I was all about Korean pride, right? So, I joined the Korean

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Student Association. And there were some parties, and some cultural days that you know, we did. But other than that, I, you know, just basically hung out with friends, studied, and KSA and that was about it.

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Oh, there weren’t any Bible Studies, or...? Oh, there was a Bible Study, but it was really weak. Oh, ok. It was really weak, and so it was not really fun. Ah, you should have stepped up.

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I know. I know, but uh... so people at New Life are you know they are very blessed because it is a very healthy church. You know, there are a lot of leaders in this church, but, uh but the college that I went to had local church

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nearby, but the leaders was not really strong. So when there was no leadership and people weren’t provided leadership for the students, you know, it didn’t go anywhere unfortunately. Tell us about the congregation of this church?

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Oh, this congregation is so uh, when I came to this church in 1994, I started to serve as a youth pastor, and there was the agreement that I made with the Korean speaking congregation senior pastor, and he said, you know, ‘As you

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take care of these youth students, try to start, uh you know, a post—high school age English speaking congregation. So after serving in this church for three years as a youth pastor, I felt the need to start English speaking congregation,

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and we did. And we called ourselves, we named ourselves ‘New Life Fellowship’ and started out with maybe about 22, 23 people in 1997. And uh now we have about

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350 adults coming to church on Sunday and then about 100 little children and then about 15, 20 youth students. So we have a good 450, 470 people that show up at church on Sunday, and what I like about this church is, even though it

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is pre-predominantly Asians that are coming to this church, you wouldn’t believe how many different ethnic groups, you know, are represented. So, I think because the church that supported us in the initial stages of Korean speaking congregation, and I happen to be a

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Korean American. I think for the next few more years you cannot help but to have this Korean American being the largest group, but uh if I’m not mistaken, we probably have about 55% uh Korean

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Americans and then the rest of them are all Vietnamese and Chinese, Cambodian, Laotian, and we just have the Pakistani family that show up. We have some Anglos uh and

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African American, Hispanics. There are so many different uh nationalities that are represented, and it is very, very refreshing. So when people say, ‘Oh, this is a Korean church,’ I always tell them, ‘It’s not a Korean church, it’s just a church.’ And that was by design, I wanted

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to build a church, where our starting members, 22 people, that we had. Those people can feel very comfortable about bringing their co-workers, and there is 22 people that I had ini—in the initial stage. They don’t all work with Korean Americans.

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They work with Asians, blacks, and whites. And for them to feel very comfortable about bringing their friends to church, I had to design this church, so that it will not be so ethnic, you know, flavored.

00:29:09.760 - 00:29:23.240

Do you think the surrounding community is very diverse as well? Uh... You know, like uh... This church is surrounded by a community where I think, for the most part, it is uh

00:29:24.130 - 00:29:40.590

white Americans, but the socioeconomic level is all very different. So, south of us, there is a one uh couple of communities, where it is pretty uh affluent. But then the north and uh west of us, it’s not as affluent.

00:29:41.220 - 00:29:56.770

Nonetheless, most of them are white Americans, and we have some Hispanics. And we have Saturday, elementary school students tutoring program, so we have about maybe fifteen kids from the neighborhood come. And they get extra studying

00:29:56.770 - 00:30:11.250

that they need. And when I look at them, most of them Hispanic American children that come. So, it’s English learning or plus bible study? We just teach English and computer.

00:30:12.000 - 00:30:26.470

And then uh yesterday, our volunteers took them to uh Houston Zoo, you know. So, they do uh English and computer, and then every so often they do some special event. And we don’t teach them Bible on Saturday’s.

00:30:30.100 - 00:30:45.020

So, what happened between college and New Life? Wha—what, what do you mean by that? Like um did you—I mean, you joined another church, or how did you start becoming a pastor?

00:30:47.070 - 00:31:03.310

So, um…when I was going to college, you know, I felt this kinda prompt in my heart that you know, I have to go to seminary. I sensed that God was calling me, and then I went to seminary.

00:31:03.310 - 00:31:16.800

And then I prepared myself to be a pastor. And then uh, while I was studying uh in seminary, I became a Baptist Christian, but Christian I pursue... feel more comfortable with Baptistic way of looking at the Bible.

00:31:17.440 - 00:31:31.820

So, became a Baptist, joined a Baptist church, and then I became a interning pastor because they didn’t have a pastor during that time when I joined them. So they asked me to serve as an interning pastor, and then after that I invited a friend of mine to come

00:31:32.550 - 00:31:45.330

and be the senior pastor. And after serving a little bit, he decided to go to Korea, so then I became the senior pastor of the small Baptist church in Boston. And then while I was there, I met this pastor from uh

00:31:46.000 - 00:32:01.630

Seoul Baptist Church, and then he asked me if I’ll be interested in coming to serve, so that’s how I ended up in Houston. Did you meet your wife there? I met wife... my, met my wife when I was in seminary.

00:32:03.720 - 00:32:16.910

Okay. Yeah. So you know, seminary if you study full time, it takes three years to finish, and I was uh on the tract to finish in three and half years. I so desperately wanted to get married if I graduated.

00:32:18.170 - 00:32:29.060

So, and then there is a singles’ dormitory and then the married students’ dormitory. My desire was to wear a ring, and then a wedding ring, and then actually live in the married students’ dorm before I graduate.

00:32:29.910 - 00:32:45.280

So I was, you know, trying so hard, and then realized that this relationship was not working out. And I clearly remember one day there was little hill on that seminary, so I stood on top of the hill.

00:32:46.010 - 00:32:58.520

I prayed, ‘God, I’m just not really good at this relationship thing. It’s not working, you know. The ones that I like, they don’t like. And the ones that I, I don’t like, they, they pursue after me,

00:32:58.560 - 00:33:12.140

and not a good uh situation. So, I decided to just surrender: ‘God, I surrender at this. And you—you take care of me.’ And then right after I said that prayer, just a few days later, I started to notice my wife.

00:33:13.240 - 00:33:27.520

She came to study from California because she had really close friends uh going into Harvard Medical School. So, she visited them one year, and then they took her to seminary because my wife was working as a computer engineer

00:33:27.960 - 00:33:42.180

at McDonald Douglas. And while she was going, working she was going to seminary part time. She was still learning the Bible, and because her friends knew that she was taking some Bible courses in California, she said, ‘Hey, there is a really good

00:33:42.180 - 00:33:55.840

seminary here.’ So, she, so they took her to go in kind of a where I was studying, and she fell in love with the campus. So that following year, she came to study for one semester after kinda like uh taking a leave of absence

00:33:56.260 - 00:34:13.170

from her work. And then uh, she came... I knew I saw her because during the orientation, I as upperclassman had to kinda sort of give an orientation to Korean students. And, and she was in that group, and I didn’t think anything of

00:34:13.170 - 00:34:24.190

her. And after I prayed that prayer, and then after a few days, I started to notice her, and somehow, you know, I was able to have lunch conversation with her. I really felt like, ‘Man.

00:34:24.490 - 00:34:40.850

She is a quality woman.’ That’s when I started to pursue after her, and we met in September 1991, and then we got married in March 1992. So you know, just about 6 months period, we got married.

00:34:40.880 - 00:34:58.100

Um so, what about your family now? Uh do you raise them with some Korean values or mostly Christian values, or…? You know, if my, if my parents lived nearby, you

00:34:59.080 - 00:35:14.410

know. My children probably have learned the, you know, at least the language, but my kids don’t know how to speak Korean. And that we tried, but my wife and I weren’t that serious, you know, about teaching them uh Korean language.

00:35:15.400 - 00:35:30.760

And there was always like a European, Europeanized type of... so, my uh... order to understand a little bit, but their speaking ability is not all that great. So, you kinda like

00:35:30.760 - 00:35:43.760

sort of put those two things in comparison like Christian value and Korean value. Yeah, you know, it is true that I tried to raise my children based on the Christian value first.

00:35:44.550 - 00:35:57.600

And then if we had the energy and the time, you know, I was my, teach them Korean values, but as a Christian, as a Christian pastor, I felt it’s very important that they become good Christians first.

00:35:59.700 - 00:36:13.210

Do you regret that your kids don’t speak Korean well? A little bit. But not that much, you know. I mean isn’t there a large community of Koreans in Houston. Isn’t it, I mean, easier for them to get to know

00:36:13.410 - 00:36:29.000

another Korean person, and speak, practice Korean with them? You know, like Houston is the fourth largest uh city. You know, I, I heard that the greater Houston now has about, about six or eight million, six or eight million people, you know.

00:36:29.850 - 00:36:39.710

But surprisingly, Korean community is not all that big, you know. Census says, ‘It, there are about maybe twenty thousand Korean Americans, which is really,

00:36:39.710 - 00:36:57.510

really small, compared to New York, LA, Chicago, and Atlanta. It is very small, so there isn’t that that big of a Korean population, and Houston is just so spread out. But you know, for them to hang out, they really need

00:36:58.100 - 00:37:11.780

parents driving them, you know. So, you definitely speak English at home with your kids? With my kids, like yeah about 98%. Hm. 98% you know, English.

00:37:11.780 - 00:37:22.510

And with my wife, maybe it’s half and half. Mm-hm. So, when I was, when we have to talk about something that the kids don’t wanna hear or the kids shouldn’t hear, then we use Korean.

00:37:24.100 - 00:37:38.700

Do you think you’re forgetting Korean because you are speaking half and half with your wife? No. I think it’s, I think it’s there, and it will always be there. But you know if you don’t use it, even though you

00:37:38.700 - 00:37:54.770

know in your head, you know, it may take a little while for Korean words to come out very, very comfortably. But it’s still there. I have no problem, no difficulty reading. You know, the level that I’m comfortable with...

00:37:55.960 - 00:38:10.320

so, because I came here when I was 13, you know when I watch Korean news in Korean, I have a very hard time understanding their vocabularies. And then the difficult uh books in Korean is literally hard to understand.

00:38:11.190 - 00:38:21.790

But for the most part, I’m very comfortable and fluent with Korean. I mean, what about your accent? Do you think it’s been Americanized? When I speak Korean? Yes.

00:38:21.790 - 00:38:30.440

No. No? There is no accent whatsoever. I have a, I have a uh accent when I speak English I think. But, uh my,

00:38:30.660 - 00:38:46.630

my first mother tongue is Korean. So, even though I lived here for thirty-four years, I still feel very comfortable with Korean language and Korean accent. I may not know those slangs that are coming out right now.

00:38:47.350 - 00:39:01.260

But, you know. Yeah. And therefore, because, because I don’t know the slangs, my Korean is very proper. My reading and writing. Very proper because I’m speaking the language that I was familiar with when I

00:39:01.260 - 00:39:14.790

was you know in Korea in the 70s. So, aren’t some of the words, I mean in, that were existing in the 70s, aren’t they kind of antiquated?

00:39:14.830 - 00:39:28.150

Yes, it’s archaic now, you know. Yeah. So, those, some of those words that you don’t use, but that’s all I know. But those are, those are the proper words, so when I, when I use that, you know, people

00:39:28.880 - 00:39:39.430

know that—yeah, you know, that’s the proper words, but we don’t use that word anymore. A lot of slangs. So, what about the traditional...

00:39:40.820 - 00:40:05.160

holidays? Do you celebrate them at home? No. When we were living in New York together with our parents, we did celebrate the, the, the New Years’ Day.

00:40:06.960 - 00:40:18.200

Right? And uh but as years went by, that kinda faded away, you know. So, we used to celebrate Chinese New Year when we were in Korea. That was a bigger deal.

00:40:19.210 - 00:40:33.570

But you know, after we came, it started to kinda like fade away. So, we don’t celebrate too many of those uh Korean traditional – whatever, the holidays. But it’s Christmas that we celebrate, Easter that we celebrate, Thanksgiving.

00:40:34.690 - 00:40:49.710

So, it’s more Christian faith, you know, based lifestyle that we are living. Um... do you think you didn’t – was there a problem getting Korean food? Is that the reason why you couldn’t

00:40:49.710 - 00:41:07.840

celebrate the holidays, or...? No, I mean, if there... for example, if there is like uh elderly people, grandmothers or grandfathers you know, then I think it’s a lot easier you know, just to gather around

00:41:07.840 - 00:41:25.880

them, and then uh do these traditional things. But my wife came to the States when she was 11, and I came here when I was thirteen, so she doesn’t know how to cook those traditional, traditional uh festival you know food. And uh we grew up eating those things, but uh

00:41:26.150 - 00:41:39.040

she doesn’t know how to. And both of us are not, we are not really into Korean holidays and things like that. But I’ll eat the food.

00:41:39.630 - 00:41:57.150

I mean, I remember my parents uh when our grandmother passed away, they would, they would like honor her, remember her by cooking food, and then we would pray in front of, I mean, I hesitate to say altar, but kind of an

00:41:57.150 - 00:42:07.940

altar? Yeah. So, I don’t practice that. No? Not at all? You know like, that’s something that the Christians, you know, umm... stay away from. We have a memorial service.

00:42:08.720 - 00:42:26.640

So, my mom passed away when about four years ago. So, until last year, I would go visit my dad, so that we can go to the gravesite together. I’d just prayed there and then remembering, you know, who she was really like and

00:42:26.640 - 00:42:41.060

what she stood for. But we would not bow down and things like that, so... it’s more like a memorial service, then uh kinda sorta offering sacrifice. Do you need to go?

00:42:41.060 - 00:42:57.930

Is that time? No. You know, I mean, so if you guys have other questions that you wanna ask. That’s fine. Um is there any, before wrap-up, is there anything else you’d like future Asian Americans in Houston to know

00:42:58.240 - 00:43:17.680

about your life in general? You know, umm... couple of things. Um one is from uh Korea professional uh perspective and I don’t know why, but uh even when I look at my kids,

00:43:18.550 - 00:43:36.090

I see them kinda spending their time a lot with Asian friends without really fully integrating, and I don’t know why that is, you know. I am, I’m always thinking if I grew up in this country, if I was born here, and I’d no language barrier whatsoever,

00:43:36.830 - 00:43:48.090

then I personally would probably just plunge into uh mainstream society. And just you know do what a good Americans are supposed to do—make contribution to this nation.

00:43:48.840 - 00:44:05.080

But I see a lot of Asians kinda like sort of creating this very elite, intellectual but nonetheless ghetto, you know. They always just hang around by themselves. I, I have a very difficult time, hard time understanding why

00:44:05.200 - 00:44:17.620

they live that way, you know. So, that’s one thing that I wish that Asian Americans were kinda break out of. And the second thing is, since I’m a Christian, you know, I really

00:44:18.940 - 00:44:33.780

wish that this young Asian Americans would find their purpose and meaning in their faith, you know, in God, through Christ cause as far as I’m concerned, Jesus is the reason and meaning and purpose as to why I live.

00:44:33.920 - 00:44:47.470

And there is no greater life, then living for Jesus. It’s just stress- free, meaningful and abundant and fulfilling life that I am experiencing, so... I just wanna share that with fellow

00:44:47.970 - 00:45:03.990

Asian Americans. Umm... So, you’d definitely have higher expectations for the second generation? Yes. So, um... I don’t know if that, I don’t know if this is the reason why so many Asians are going into

00:45:04.640 - 00:45:19.830

medicine is because when you are practice medicine, in a way, you can just be in your own cocoon, doing your own thing, but what about politics, you know? And what about, you know, uh art and music, you know?

00:45:19.830 - 00:45:35.110

And music I guess we’re doing okay, but you know, and sports, you know, Asian American parents, they just have this notion that uh, you know, ‘My kids have to study and become a doctor, lawyer, engineer,’ whatever, right?

00:45:35.880 - 00:45:53.050

But I think we, we, we see a lack of uh participation when it comes to, you know, sports and politics and different arenas in this nation, you know. So, I think it’s about time that uh Asian Americans will have to

00:45:53.960 - 00:46:10.710

get more involved in this nation. But wouldn’t you say that most parents want, I mean, encourage their kids to pursue like medicine or you know being a lawyer and stuff because it’s a lot stable—their lives are

00:46:10.710 - 00:46:23.810

stable and… Definitely. You know, that’s why I think, that’s why I, I think that the parents, especially Asian parents are very, I don’t know, maybe like sort of near-sighted, you know.

00:46:24.310 - 00:46:35.230

If we do not contri—I mean, they could say that ‘Yeah by studying medicine and becoming a medical doctor, we are contributing in this nation.’ I can’t argue with that, you know. That’s really true, but umm...

00:46:36.100 - 00:46:53.890

who knows, you know, what this nation of young people can do if they are encouraged from early on that don’t just think about becoming a medical doctor, but uh you know be this and be that, you know, and give them there a little bit more freedom, you know, as to what they can

00:46:54.470 - 00:47:10.620

pursue with the, the gifts and the abilities that they are endowed with. I mean, we talked about this in class, but they – people think Asians can’t, well, kind of hesitate going into

00:47:11.190 - 00:47:24.140

politics because a lot of Americans think they’re outsiders, and they don’t necessarily get voted into office. Do you think that way? So, it’s a maybe self—fulfilling prophecy, you know.

00:47:24.280 - 00:47:37.980

Maybe it is true, you know, may—but then look at Obama, right? He is the first, he is half—black, half—white, but he is the first, you know, uhh... kinda African American uh president. Somebody had to do that, right?

00:47:38.600 - 00:47:56.870

So, you know, there always has to, there—there always has to be a trailblazer and pioneer, and if we shy away because of the assumption that we have that, you know, white Americans or black Americans think of us as outsider, then we would never venture out,

00:47:58.820 - 00:48:11.610

right? Yeah. What’s her name um, this educator in Northeast, who is just making a really loud noise in DC area by firing all these superintendent?

00:48:12.690 - 00:48:29.020

Is it uh... yeah, she’s a Korea—Korean American woman, but she got involved in education. And she really has this vision to change American education system to become better, so she’s doing some radical things. I always view, I mean, whether she’s right or wrong, that’s besides the point, but

00:48:29.020 - 00:48:41.550

the fact that she’s involved in this education, you know, and then making this, you know, huge, you know, waves. You know, I was really uh pleased to see that we have people like that, coming out from Asian community.

00:48:42.840 - 00:48:59.810

Would you encourage your kids to pursue a career in politics? Why not? I mean like see, if they uhh..., if they are willing to pursue that, I would whole-heartedly, you know, support that. If they wanna go into, I mean, of course, like they have to have gifts and

00:48:59.810 - 00:49:12.620

talents. If they are really bad, you know, athletes, but they say, ‘I wanna be a soccer player.’ I have to put some sense into that, you know. I’ve, I’ve seen you for the past 17 years as your father, and you have no athletic abilities.

00:49:12.620 - 00:49:25.420

Somebody has to tell them the truth, you know, but if they are really gifted speaker, you know, why not go to law school and pursue a politics? If they are really good with art, you know,

00:49:25.820 - 00:49:37.490

parents don’t want their kids to be an artist because starving artist, right? Mm. But they, if they are really gifted, you know, and they really enjoy that, then why not? So, what do you feel about Jeremy Lin?

00:49:38.660 - 00:49:52.260

He’s making big noise, like I guess in the sports arena? He got hurt, right? Yeah. He’s out for the season, so... it’s over. He can’t play anymore. I mean, but the fact that he could actually make those waves in the media, I

00:49:52.620 - 00:50:05.280

mean... Yeah. I mean, I, I, I was so, I mean, I was shocked and surprised that he could hang with uh, you know, white and black basketball players because again we immediate

00:50:05.700 - 00:50:14.330

tell ourselves that ‘Aww. When it comes to sports, Asians cannot compete because we don’t have the physique, you know.’ But you know, I—Jeremy Lin has demonstrated,

00:50:14.840 - 00:50:26.360

you know that’s not true, right? That’s not true. But I think we are okay with, you know, individual sports like tennis and golf and table tennis and stuff like that, but when it comes to basketball, football, and things like that, we just

00:50:26.440 - 00:50:41.440

don’t even try. But I’m so glad that, that Jeremy Lin is there, and who knows how many future Jeremy Lins are there? You know, and you know, it is, it is what it is. Like we do have a for the most part, kinda like a, a

00:50:42.820 - 00:50:55.590

smaller bodies or like shorter height. But you know, but you know, it’s not, it’s not uncommon for me to see you know Asian Americans that are 6, 6’ 1’, 6’ 2’ and with that height they can play guards you know in

00:50:55.680 - 00:51:09.470

basketball, you know. So, I’m glad that there what happened with Jeremy Lin. Again, I think he may ha—he probably had to go through many huddles because simply because he’s Asian American. People probably did not take him too seriously, and the fact

00:51:09.470 - 00:51:19.640

that he went to Harvard; right? You know, Harvard and basketball, they don’t go together. And on top of that he’s, you know, Asian. So, people may not admit it because they wanna be politically correct,

00:51:20.140 - 00:51:31.330

but, you know, deep in their hearts, the coaches and the organizations, who knows what they were thinking? They probably didn’t take Jeremy Lin seriously, but when he was given the opportunity, man, he soared like an

00:51:31.370 - 00:51:44.500

eagle. And on top of that, he’s a Christian, you know, so he’s, he’s really good, I mean, and again a team, team with another guy. But I watched them on not only on when they are on the playing field, but I watched them

00:51:44.500 - 00:51:56.590

when they are on the side line, and so I see Tebow, you know, encouraging his teammates. I see Jeremy Lin, you know, not just really bragging about himself, but he’s distributing the credit to all his teammates.

00:51:56.590 - 00:52:11.010

That’s really refreshing to see. You know, a world where athletes are just all about themselves, you know, pumping their fist and pounding their chest – it’s me, right? But I don’t see that type of gesture in those two Christian athletes, so...

00:52:12.770 - 00:52:27.870

very happy about Jeremy Lin and hopefully he will get healthier and be able to come back next year. Why do you think Asians excel in the individual sports because I mean Asians are kind of known for their

00:52:27.870 - 00:52:43.730

community... selflessness? I mean, in the States—so, for example, in the Olympics, right? I mean, Japanese woman’s uh soccer team, they won the woman’s World Cup soccer, right?

00:52:43.890 - 00:52:57.660

So, you know, when it comes to umm... this type of Olympic Games, I think we do have chance, you know, for example, swimming and then woman’s basketball and soccer and different

00:52:57.660 - 00:53:11.000

things. But here in the States, I’m just talking about like maybe football and then basketball. People are just so big and tall that I think uh we just have that kind of physique, you know, because of the genes that we have,

00:53:11.030 - 00:53:28.390

you know? So, and, and, but then you know like golf and tennis, you know… Figure skating… …you do, you do have to be very athletic, but it doesn’t take humongous body, you know, to, to excel in those

00:53:28.510 - 00:53:41.660

sports. It’s you know, with a lot with a lot of discipline and tenaciousness. You can excel in those sports, so... Thank you for your time. Yeah. Thank you. Yeah. You’re welcome. My pleasure.