00:00:00.870 - 00:00:13.230

Today is April 23rd, 2020. My name is Ann Shi and I'm interviewing Elaine Tao for the Houston Asian American Archive. And thank you so much for your time, contributing your time

00:00:13.230 - 00:00:27.080

in this hectic COVID-19 pandemic. Yes, I know. You're welcome. Uh, so to start, can you tell us when and where were you born? And maybe share with us

00:00:27.080 - 00:00:44.910

some childhood memories, and the neighborhood that you were brought up in? Okay, uh, I was born in Taipei, Taiwan. Um, childhood memory, I think I was very blessed. I came- I was born in a very large family.

00:00:45.420 - 00:00:59.140

Um, my grandmother has eight kids. One of my grandmother had eight, the other one has six. So every time we have holidays, usually have a lot of cousins. I'm one out of 23 cousins in one family,

00:00:59.580 - 00:01:09.750

and one of the 17 in the other family. So it's always fun during Chinese New Year that everybody kind of hang out together, uh we kept a very good relationship.

00:01:09.750 - 00:01:25.810

So up until now, uh we still- they still try to meet each other every three months or so but we call in meeting now, because we have a family business that each family had to run so. So we call meeting instead of get happy gathering when we were kid and fighting

00:01:25.810 - 00:01:39.280

with each other. So, so that's one of the thing I always love is to playing uh, Chinese checker with my grandmother and then watching my aunts cooking all this wonderful food and um, uh,

00:01:39.360 - 00:01:49.250

play the fireworks with my cousins as always fun things to do. And then, there's so many holidays, so there's a lot of excuses to eat different things. So that was a lot of fun.

00:01:49.250 - 00:02:05.690

So what kind of food do you usually cook back then? Well, you know, the traditional Chinese, um, Chinese holiday food like we make, uh "nian gao" which is kind of like gluten rice cake.

00:02:06.530 - 00:02:21.630

Um, and we came, like I mentioned, we came from a very big family, so we have this traditional old, um, stove that's actually burning the wood underneath. So you'll see that you know people putting the woods in three days

00:02:21.630 - 00:02:35.870

before, just to make sure that will be heated enough and then my um, my aunts and the— um what's her name? The– the lady that worked with us. They let her work like a whole week and make hundreds and

00:02:35.870 - 00:02:50.540

hundreds of those rice cakes, so they can share them among everybody. And that's one of the thing I remember or anybody that had babies and will make "you fan"1 which is gluten rice. Um, it's one of my favorite.

00:02:50.540 - 00:03:05.660

Even after I came to America whenever I go home, I make my aunt make it for me just because it's one of my favorite dishes. Um, she has since passed away and... 1 You Fan, 油飯, literally means “greasy rice”, is also translated as Chinese sticky rice,

00:03:05.780 - 00:03:13.250

which is usually made from glutinous rice, soy sauce, oyster sauce, scallions, cilantro and other ingredients. Nobody can make it right even including myself, my mom... nobody can make the- the way that she used to make and so those are a few things I

00:03:13.250 - 00:03:24.260

remember. Of course there's a lot more because my grandmother, um, spoil her sons like including my dad. Um, they'll make this thing called "Ma You Ji" which is sesame oil chicken, and she puts nothing

00:03:24.260 - 00:03:40.510

but cooking wine so- and there's no water in it, in that soup, so you're pretty much just drinking alcohol. And when I was a kid, I wouldn’t appreciate it because they just think— oh, it stinks. But after a while I start appreciating after I- after I turned 21.

00:03:41.170 - 00:03:54.410

Um, I will go home and then nag my grandmother makes it, then they— she'll- she'll try to like bump it up to make it more like alcohol. And instead of using cooking wine she'll start putting vodka in there and all that stuff. So lot of fun hanging out with her.

00:03:54.800 - 00:04:04.940

Yeah. Wow. Excellent memories with... Yeah. How about— you have a big family that— are they here in Houston?

00:04:05.920 - 00:04:17.570

Um, well my, my mother's mom— my grandmother who's just turned 100 last November, she's still living with my mom and my dad. Um, my mom's side most of them are in the United

00:04:17.930 - 00:04:31.170

States. So uh I had grown- I had an uncle that lived in Sugarland, who passed away about seven years ago. And I have another uncle that used to live here, but he moved out to, uh California.

00:04:31.690 - 00:04:41.100

So I have a whole bunch of my mom's side's family. There's like four or five of her brothers and sister, they all live in United States. So we are on this side.

00:04:41.690 - 00:04:53.660

Ever since I got older, we actually use Thanksgiving as an excuse and make everybody come home. And because my grandmother's birthday is around that time, so I will make all my cousins that everybody make one

00:04:53.700 - 00:05:06.020

dish. Her favorite thing is to watch all of us screaming up and down in the kitchen and make food for her, and then every year we try to top one another to see who has the best food and who has the most creativity.

00:05:06.020 - 00:05:21.040

And so that, that was a lot of fun. So I remember, you wrote down that you, um, moved to the US uh when you were 8, uh... 13 years old? Since ...13 you were uh, like went

00:05:21.290 - 00:05:37.150

to elementary school in Taiwan? Correct. I was- I had all my elementary school in Taiwan, one year of middle school, and then I came over here, uh starting seventh grade. So what were your favorite subjects back then?

00:05:37.370 - 00:05:52.150

I think my favorite was history. It was the only textbook that actually read from cover to cover. And I always think it's fascinating how um people interact with one another, how the, the

00:05:52.690 - 00:06:05.000

leaders changed lives— in other people's lives. So that was one thing I actually literally read the textbook. So yeah. So was the music a big thing in your life back then?

00:06:06.070 - 00:06:17.650

Music was always part of my life. I think that's one of the thing, my mom doesn't want any of the children in the house. So uh, I played- I played the piano, like my brother plays the

00:06:17.650 - 00:06:31.090

violin. And my other sister plays pretty much all the instruments. So what that means is that after school we're either practicing with the band or we're actually going to private lessons. So we normally

00:06:31.090 - 00:06:43.510

are not home and I- I think that was a tactic my mom tried to do so nobody is bugging her. Um, so music has been in my life. Ever since I was seven. Um, I went to- in fact, when I was in

00:06:43.510 - 00:06:56.200

Taiwan in middle school, I was actually in the, in the conservatory for one year. Um, the biggest thing that music has done for me is when I came to United State, not knowing English well and

00:06:56.200 - 00:07:09.120

that was one of the thing that actually I- I know that will always be there for me, so I practice a lot. Um, I remember, uh first time I have self confidence was also from music. Because when I

00:07:09.140 - 00:07:18.110

was, I think ninth grade. Yeah, ninth grade, I went to a talent show. I brought my e rhu and played it for them.

00:07:18.630 - 00:07:28.970

No one ever seen that instrument before. And then I was like, wait, I can do more. So I also played the piano. So, the choir teacher loved me so much and she immediately

00:07:29.050 - 00:07:41.680

insists I have to be in choir so I can accompany all the, the choir peoples and stuff like that. And this how- So somehow I got myself into music, um minor when I was a young age.

00:07:42.290 - 00:07:58.280

So I think music plays a very, very, very big part of my life. I see. Um, so going back to when you were 13, uh why did you move to Houston? My parents- or the whole family moved to United States.

00:07:58.700 - 00:08:09.410

So uh I think my dad, ever since I was a kid, he always believed that you- US- you know how people said that the other side of the grass is always greener. And I think that's why he believed in.

00:08:09.870 - 00:08:24.940

So he moved the whole family to United States. So we- I still remember was 1982 July 2nd, the day after I finished my middle school year. Uh, my dad said that was the last day we need to come into United

00:08:24.940 - 00:08:32.460

State with the green card validation. So we had to move everybody in that day. So that's, that's always a day that also remember.

00:08:33.300 - 00:08:50.260

Did you speak English back then? Not enough. Probably know "apple", "banana", um "How are you?" That's about it. So. So how was it like adjusting to the life in the US? That was difficult.

00:08:50.610 - 00:09:03.160

I think a the lot of things have changed because when I was in Taiwan, I, I always consider myself as princess because I don't have to do any chores. I can do whatever I

00:09:03.160 - 00:09:17.800

want. I had the luxury to learn a lot of stuff with their music, uh sports, uh arts, uh dance, what have you. So when I came over here, I- it was a culture shock to me because my dad said, “we don't have money for any of this anymore.

00:09:18.390 - 00:09:29.960

You had to pick the one you like.” So, so of course, he doesn't want anybody to give up music. So everybody still continue playing music, but we had lost the chance to learn and all the other stuff that we enjoy.

00:09:30.510 - 00:09:42.850

Um, also, my dad also had mentioned that, “if you don't study hard, then you're not going to survive.” That was things that he never mentioned to us before because I always think that I don't need to do well in school and

00:09:42.850 - 00:09:54.500

I can live luxuriously because I just feel like my family was, um comfortable enough. I don't have to do anything and I can be princess all my life. So coming to United State was a big

00:09:54.580 - 00:10:09.520

difference, was difficult to adjust. Uh, I think the difficult- most difficult time in my life is probably between high school to college because that's when I realized, oh my parents doesn't speak English well, and I had to start picking up a lot of

00:10:09.620 - 00:10:20.630

chores in the family, um like communicating with telephone company and tried to figure out insurance and all that stuff. So it was- it was a tough, tough things to come through.

00:10:20.850 - 00:10:30.460

Do you have any siblings? Yes, yeah. Yeah, I'm the oldest in the family. But I have one brother and one sister.

00:10:30.970 - 00:10:47.090

Right. Do they help out with their chore at the beginning of the- Oh, no, I don't think they ever did. Uh, and then- and that has made a big difference for me. Because I always assuming on the big sisters that I have to take care of the whole family.

00:10:47.730 - 00:11:00.480

Um, when I gone through high school, I skip a year in high school so I can kind of proceed my career faster. Um, I realized- I realized that was a mistake, so I tell my brothers and sister not to do that.

00:11:01.070 - 00:11:13.710

And then I make sure my brother and sister when they're in college, they head- they can get some kind of internship, and that kind of help with their career a little better. So I- I do a lot of stuff for them. And I also just thought that that's what I need to do.

00:11:14.120 - 00:11:26.070

Um, I don't remember if they help out at all. I don't think they ever did because then I know my brother doesn't... Up to today he still doesn't know how to buy a plane ticket. So I'm pretty sure he didn't do anything.

00:11:26.290 - 00:11:38.370

Wow, you spoil him then. Yeah, I think so. Big mistake. Um, so, how did you choose music for your major at U of H?

00:11:39.000 - 00:11:49.750

I literally did not choose my major. I think- like I mentioned when I was in high school, had a wonderful choir teacher Miss Nis . She had realized that my English was very limited.

00:11:50.630 - 00:12:04.370

Uh she has forced me to always talk to the Korean members and all that. She had forced me to actually get me two choir classes instead of one every year because I need to practice a lot to play with all the choir team.

00:12:04.850 - 00:12:16.330

So she's the one actually helped me decide to become a music major, because she- she probably figured that there's noth- nothing that I'm better at because my SAT wasn't that high and all that stuff.

00:12:16.330 - 00:12:27.570

So I had a chance. I think I got into Baylor and also got into U of H. And, uh it was a simple decision to go U of H because I had a boyfriend that went to

00:12:27.570 - 00:12:41.390

U of H. So ended up in U of H, so. And you receive the scholarship for that degree, right? Yes, I had the scholarship. Um, but then two years down the road, I realized that I don't

00:12:41.390 - 00:12:54.890

think I can do much with music. So I ended up with, with a business major. And who were like a mentor figure that you- you mentioned there's this music teacher. Is

00:12:54.890 - 00:13:08.750

there anyone else that really influenced your decisions? Um, no, I think I just- there's a lot of people in my life, I have a lot of friends in high school. And they always say, Oh, she's the one that plays a piano well and that just assume

00:13:08.750 - 00:13:19.470

that's the only thing I know what to do. And my dad also, I think he's a big influence because there are many times in my life I want to quit piano, he won't let me. I think I threw books at him.

00:13:19.470 - 00:13:35.070

I threw a lot of things at him as like, “you're, you're not dictating my life.” And- but he insisted, I'm- I'm glad he insisted that I had to go through so, I went through and I- I ended up in high- uh college without that, he says, “See, I told you so” and that kind of stuff.

00:13:36.350 - 00:13:48.080

But if it weren't for him, I don't think I will know what I have today. So I think he- he's also a big influence in my life. Has he insisted on you play erhu as well, or just a

00:13:48.180 - 00:14:01.670

piano? No, I actually, when I was in elementary school, I was in the Chinese orchestra, uh, group. And I actually played the z honghu, which is almost like a viola instead of a violin in Chinese

00:14:01.670 - 00:14:14.060

instrument. E rhu was almost like a violin. Um, but my brother plays e rhu very well. So he was always the concert master for the group and all that. And then so, when I came to United States, I

00:14:14.150 - 00:14:23.920

said I want to do that instead of that, the viola. So I play e rhu just for fun. It's not that hard, it's only two strings, so you kind of figure out the notes and just play along with it.

00:14:23.920 - 00:14:32.440

So uh, now he doesn't have a lot of influence in that. And I think my mom is the one that actually, um, kind of want us to explore different instruments.

00:14:32.810 - 00:14:45.230

So when I was in middle school, I actually play p ipa. So my, my mom plays the g uzheng. So we all play different instruments, ‘cause we actually officially moved from United- uh Taiwan to United States.

00:14:45.600 - 00:14:56.680

So we have a huge container with nothing in it. So my- my- my mom, mom literally went and bought every single instrument she can think of and move everything over here. So we had a lot of time to play around with it.

00:14:58.330 - 00:15:12.800

So um, trying to play erhu, guzheng, pipa, which are more like traditional Chinese instruments, is there, um, an emphasis on traditional values in your family?

00:15:12.800 - 00:15:27.050

Um, I think as a family as a whole because we have such big family, uh that tradition, the tradition was always in there. I think, to respect, uh the elderly is to appreciate

00:15:28.010 - 00:15:38.910

what we have hence down and all this stuff. It's always in my family. A very special thing I always tell people and they always shocked, when they see no one- that when I tell them that the— what we

00:15:38.950 - 00:15:51.680

do in the family is that, you know how the big family they usually have round tables, everybody sit down and eat. Um, we have a tradition that whenever that dinner is served, my grandmother and

00:15:51.750 - 00:16:04.890

all the uncles which the men and the head of the household, they will all sit together the first round to eat. And then the second round was all the kids would all sit- unless some table after the

00:16:04.890 - 00:16:17.600

elderly leave, the kids will sit together and eat. And the last group of people eat will be the wives like my mom, and then all the womans that, that sits there. So that was our tradition.

00:16:17.660 - 00:16:29.690

And when I was a kid, I'll say, “This is not fair.” This is not what it should be, woman should have better, right? We should sit right next to husband and eat and all that. Um, it's not until I got older, and I

00:16:29.690 - 00:16:42.250

realized that was the best way to do it because you respect the elderly and then you also, you can clean up after everybody eats. So if you actually sit there, you went there and the kids not taken care of. It's difficult.

00:16:42.450 - 00:16:54.760

So there are always things that- my grandmother always tells me that there are way to do things, and there are way to do things better. And that's what I always tried to follow. So sometimes tradition is not bad.

00:16:55.720 - 00:17:06.580

Tradition is something that you'll follow that you kind of have to see the logic in it. Um, so I do appreciate how my big family had teach me, um, to do things the right way.

00:17:06.650 - 00:17:22.200

So. What other traditions that your big family would follow besides, um, this one? Hmm, I'm trying to think. Um, I think the woman always have to learn how to cook.

00:17:22.270 - 00:17:34.530

I also think that's not fair before. But then I think it was a luxury by the time we came to the United States. Since we have all this- all this wonderful food

00:17:34.530 - 00:17:41.180

when we come to United States when I pay for it, I don't know how to make it. They didn't have Google before. They didn't have YouTube

00:17:41.180 - 00:17:57.150

before. So we cannot like- because my mom had learned it from my grandmothers and then so she was able to teach us to do it. I remember one year when I was in high school we were so cold. My dad say, “this is perfect time to make Chinese sausages.”

00:17:57.580 - 00:18:10.770

We made it so good like when my grandpa came to the United States and then was so impressed. He actually bought a sausage stuffer for us. She carry all the way from Taiwan to give it to us.

00:18:11.230 - 00:18:25.150

And until today, I still make fun of my dad is like, “you know, you only made it one time in your life and I don't even know where the machine is.” It would be nice we'll make it again and he always teased us this, “Okay, the minute I found the machine we'll make it again,” that

00:18:25.150 - 00:18:35.160

kind of things. Um, and one other tradition we have, is that we always feel like the family's blood is always thicker, and we always get together a lot.

00:18:35.670 - 00:18:47.160

Like even up to today, I- I probably go see my parents; they don't live far from me. I see them at least twice a week. And then my brother lives in Cypress. So he'll come down to see us at least once a week.

00:18:47.980 - 00:19:00.770

So we- we're very close together so... Great. Um, So how was your friends of— um, circle of friends at University of Houston?

00:19:01.500 - 00:19:15.810

Like what was the demographics like back then? Hmm... I was working and studying at the same time. There's- there- they already have a lot of Asian at the time already.

00:19:15.940 - 00:19:30.910

Most of my friends are either Vietnamese or Taiwanese or not a lot of Chinese at that time yet, but granted, I graduated in 90s so there were just not a lot of people here, period. Um, yeah, most of my friends are either

00:19:30.910 - 00:19:40.320

Taiwanese, Vietnamese. Not a lot of Korean, too. Um, demographic wise. Yeah, that's pretty much it there.

00:19:40.640 - 00:19:49.440

I mean, I know my daughter's in U of H right now. She said there's a lot more of Vietnamese there now. And there's more Asian there now. Before it wasn't that many.

00:19:49.570 - 00:20:03.700

So... Were you active in the community involvement back then? U of H, I was- one year, I was like Vice President for Chinese Student Association.

00:20:04.140 - 00:20:18.290

I remember we had a Chinese New Year, um, event, and I was wearing qipao walking around and that kind of stuff. So, um, I also joined Asian American Study before, um, they- uh U of H was

00:20:18.290 - 00:20:25.810

so nice that they actually sent me to LA for conference. So that was a lot of fun. I think that was my changing point.

00:20:26.190 - 00:20:36.890

I think in my life. Now, that's when I realized, Oh, the world is so big and there's so many things happening. The pleasure to meet the World Trade Center president and he

00:20:36.890 - 00:20:50.330

had invited me to go back to Taiwan, um, to see what they do in World Trade Center and all sorts of stuff. And it was eye-opening for me a big, big, um, change in my life is going to U of H.

00:20:52.060 - 00:21:04.080

Great. So what did you do after you graduated? I um, I... Let me see. I worked for oil company as a HR before.

00:21:04.760 - 00:21:19.050

Did... like that was a lot of paperwork. Then I ended up— what did I do— ended up went to- to Seattle. I was in Seattle for seven years, uh, got a job for a company called Mitsui and

00:21:19.350 - 00:21:30.900

Company, which is one of the bigger company in Japan. I worked there for about five years and truly learned a lot of stuff too. Uh, in between that I always teach piano.

00:21:31.240 - 00:21:43.800

I mean, there was- even up to today I'm still teaching music theory, because I think there's some- something in my blood, like I like to tell people what to do. So that was something that I always enjoyed to do.

00:21:43.960 - 00:21:55.380

Um, so I was always teaching part-time, but then I had the pleasure to work for Mitsui. And that's another eye opening for me. Everything I wanted to do has to go from ground-up.

00:21:56.540 - 00:22:05.520

You have to learn step by step. Nothing goes fancy so that you can get it right away. So it's almost like playing a piece of strange music that you got,

00:22:05.750 - 00:22:18.000

you had to learn all the notes you have to understand the phrasing, understand the background and then use a lot of time to practice, to make it right. And Mitsui gave me that chance. I went in

00:22:18.040 - 00:22:34.090

from just shuffling paperwork um, until they— I think was second or third year, they start making me flying around the country, checking out all the warehouses and make sure that I negotiate with the, the vendors and then also talk to the customers.

00:22:34.090 - 00:22:44.070

So I learned a lot of stuff from them, and I really appreciate that. Did you have someone who's like a mentor figure during that time?

00:22:44.440 - 00:22:54.620

Who helped you a lot? Yeah, there was. I remember his name is Yogsh . But I forgot his last name. He's, he was

00:22:54.620 - 00:23:04.630

such a smart man. He always saw me do whatever I wanted to do. He knows I'm crazy and I always have a different idea to do different things.

00:23:05.460 - 00:23:18.720

He never said no to me, he always said, “well, give it a try” and that kind of thing. So I got, I become the star of the company very shortly, like a year after. And, Yogsh was very nice of sharing me, too.

00:23:18.720 - 00:23:30.050

So I ended up working for another department. And I had George Yates I remember. That's my last, and my last manager before I left. And they both are just amazing.

00:23:30.050 - 00:23:42.950

They let me do whatever I want. Um, luckily that most of the stuff I recommended, we were able to kind of make things a little easier. But they, if they don't give me a chance to do it, I don't think I would know what I can

00:23:42.950 - 00:23:51.170

do and what I cannot do. So that was one of the thing I think was really nice. Because whenever I don't know what to do, I go up and ask them.

00:23:51.620 - 00:23:59.420

I'm always the last person to leave the company. I think maybe that's why they like me better. Um, and every weekend. I'm always going to the golf

00:23:59.420 - 00:24:09.880

course with them too. But then every time I go to golf course, they always want to hang with me, because I always had beer and food in my cart. So, so I ended up become very easy to work with

00:24:10.060 - 00:24:21.280

everyone too. So... Wow. So can you tell us a little bit about your kind of journey after that? I remem- I saw

00:24:21.320 - 00:24:35.440

you write- wrote down Eden Image and Taoday, is it Tao- Taoday? Yeah, yeah, so um, so that's kind of like how I grew up. When I was about 30, that's when I

00:24:35.440 - 00:24:47.820

start having babies. Um, Seattle is not a friendly city for me whenever you start having baby, because you can't really work and it's- taking care of kids at the same time. So I ended up

00:24:47.820 - 00:25:01.400

coming- like you know, I have to tell in my legs and I come home and tell my mom and say, “ha, I kind of need help, otherwise I can't make a lot of money.” So um- so I moved back home. I had two kids, one daughter, one son.

00:25:04.070 - 00:25:18.890

Um, when I had my son is when I realized my daughter had a cataract in her eye— one of her eye. That was a very, very difficult thing in my life because knowing that she may or may not see and luckily was only one eye.

00:25:19.190 - 00:25:27.610

It took us eight years to kind of figure out what to do with her. Um, but it costs a lot of money. I mean, even with insurance,

00:25:27.970 - 00:25:39.890

there are still a lot of thing I need to do. So working for another company wasn't even an option anymore, because every week I'm going to the doctor or hospital every other day and stuff like that.

00:25:40.990 - 00:25:58.380

So I decided that, um, I need to have my own company. So what, that year when I was pregnant with my son, I started Eden Image. Um, so it's almost 20 years now my son is 19. Um, oh, at that time, I kind of realized that if I can

00:25:58.380 - 00:26:08.610

have control of my time, then I- maybe I can take care of family and business at the same time. So Eden Image is... One of my mentor, her name is Ming Lee Song.

00:26:09.090 - 00:26:20.300

She- she gave me the recommendation. She said, “You can't sit at home with a baby and do nothing. I just can't stand you sitting there.” Uh, she was the president of Junior Chamber of Commerce. And that was

00:26:20.300 - 00:26:33.180

when I joined up when I was 19. Uh, so when I moved back to Houston, she just said, “You literally just had to have a job or something.” I said, “well, I can't work for people ‘cause of my daughter.” So she recommended me to do, um,

00:26:33.890 - 00:26:44.610

dental lab. I was like, “I know nothing about dental.” She’s like, “well, you go check it out and see what you want to do.” And so she gave me the option and I told her I have no money to start.

00:26:44.610 - 00:26:58.560

So she gave me the money to start that too. And that was 20 years ago, and she's still my mentor up to today. Uh, if it weren't for her, I won't be very active in the community as well because when I have my first-

00:26:58.640 - 00:27:11.740

first product go she said that, you need to learn how to give back and then- so even up to- up to today, she is still my mentor, teaching me how to live life fully and also teach me how to

00:27:11.740 - 00:27:23.210

have a complete circle in my life. Um, so Eden Image was how I started my own business. I went from one person, now we have nine people in the company.

00:27:23.660 - 00:27:38.640

Now it's down to three because Coronavirus, um, so it's up and down. But I think we will— we’ll tough it out, we'll figure out what to do. So. Yeah, hope you can get through this, um smoothly.

00:27:38.640 - 00:27:54.680

No, I can't do it smoothly, but we'll make it through. How about, um Taoday Investments? Oh, that was just um, there- Well, my lawyer told me one thing that day and that was I didn't

00:27:54.680 - 00:28:03.760

understand what she's talking about. But she said that, uh, Taiwanese has a word now that's very popular. It's called x ie gang . I was like, what's x ie gang mean?

00:28:03.870 - 00:28:17.310

And she tried to explain to me. So that's pretty much what I did is that when I have Eden Image, and back in 2008, I kind of realized that, you know, uh instead of putting money in the stock market, maybe smart if we invest.

00:28:17.590 - 00:28:29.710

so I went ahead and started Taoday Investments, and then I purchased real estate. So that's how, what I managed. So that's one of the business idea, which is now have some kind of increases your income.

00:28:29.740 - 00:28:42.720

So in case, one company has- something happened to one company, the other company can cover; so that's what I did. And then also Campbell Learning Center, which is a non-profit organization that started about 10 years ago,

00:28:43.360 - 00:28:54.780

and basically is to, uh let people know what- how important music education is. Because that's what I had learned in my life and I like to share with everybody as well.

00:28:55.560 - 00:29:11.900

So, so she said, “Oh, you're definitely xie gang because you had so many company running. Okay. So whatever so, so that's what it is. So how did that, um, period in Seattle impact your life

00:29:12.330 - 00:29:27.930

afterwards? Um, I was working four jobs. Um, at that time when I was in Seattle, I teach piano, I worked for two company— and then I was doing something else on the side... Oh, and I

00:29:27.930 - 00:29:41.510

was selling real estate at the- at the time. So what I did is that I wasn't doing well in Houston, it was to the point I go, every quarter people will actually, um, I go to one restaurant, sit down and

00:29:41.510 - 00:29:53.500

somebody will pay for my meal. And there's something that kind of scares me because I feel like what do I need to do for them later, and then when it happens almost every day, then you can now realize, Oh, don't do that anymore- anymore.

00:29:54.190 - 00:30:04.170

Something- something might be wrong. So that's why I left Houston. I went to Seattle. My dad didn't understand— what I wanted to find, why I do that, and why am I

00:30:04.170 - 00:30:15.620

going so far? But I told him that this is a challenge, I want to try myself. What I did is I told my dad, “I don't want any money from nobody.” He was gonna give me a whole bunch of money so

00:30:15.620 - 00:30:23.530

I can enjoy myself. I said no, let me try. Let me see if I’ll die. If I can't do it, then I'll come home. So that was what I did.

00:30:24.200 - 00:30:36.060

Uh, I still remember the first day I check into a hotel. The third day I started working. And then within a week, I was already moving into an apartment. Um, I just

00:30:36.060 - 00:30:49.950

wanted to see what I can do by myself. And then because of that, I think I was willing to take a lot of comments. And I was willing to take a lot of people telling me what to do or teaching me

00:30:50.630 - 00:31:02.330

and starting from ground-up. And that was very, very helpful. I think that if I didn't, if I wasn't there by myself, if I weren't there to give myself that challenge, I don't think I'm-

00:31:02.630 - 00:31:14.990

I can be as aggressive as I am today. So… So how did your personality change before and after? I don't think I ever change.

00:31:14.990 - 00:31:27.650

I think I'm just a crazy girl the whole time. I always- I'm- I'm one of those that never shy away from chall- challenge. Um, if anything, I think I talk more than

00:31:27.690 - 00:31:38.420

I normally do because when I was younger, maybe I'm not talking as much. Um, but I'm talking a little bit more. What else I think...

00:31:40.110 - 00:31:51.330

Oh maybe I'm not as preppy. I guess there might be the thing. I mean, I- I think when I- when I was in Houston or even when I was in Taiwan, I always think that brand name is very important.

00:31:51.950 - 00:32:07.780

Uh, I remember when I was a kid, the kids are always like finding who has the best brand name for socks because you always wearing uniform, right. And then- then they'll say, “Do you have an umbrella or alligator or something that- that's on

00:32:07.780 - 00:32:21.420

your socks?” And kids were fighting with that. And I usually care about that a lot. Or I have to tell people that hey, my pen- pencil case came from Japan or my clothes came from Paris.

00:32:21.740 - 00:32:38.380

My dad drives a French car with a shared drive, that kind of thing. When I went to Seattle, that all— threw out of the window, that was something that feel like that. It's how much I make, that I should deserve. And then that makes a big difference.

00:32:38.380 - 00:32:51.810

I think. And I was still- up to today I still tell my husband I say, “when I was in Seattle, I was able to make the meal in like for or $5.” And you have vegetable, you have meat, and you have wine because I

00:32:51.810 - 00:33:04.900

remember at that time, Johannisberg Riesling was only $2.99. And then you know, chicken was 29 cents a pound for chicken leg. And I was very conscientious about how much I make, how

00:33:04.900 - 00:33:17.840

much I can spend. Um, that's something I think, I learned that I know that I have to build it from ground-up. So that was really really a challenging time in my life, but I was willing to take it.

00:33:18.720 - 00:33:35.540

And that makes a big difference. Maybe that's a difference of what I hadn't before because, um, it kind of, kind of just take away all the shy that I had when I was a kid. So. How about,

00:33:35.820 - 00:33:53.280

later— you said— you came back to Houston and decided to start your own business, how did that lead up to Campbell Learning Center? Oh, well, so everything I think evolves to what is supposed to be— I think, or, to me, I think

00:33:53.280 - 00:34:08.510

it's a natural rebel- uh evolve, evolution. Um, I worked about 10 years into my company and I realized I was able to make some kind of good, um, income. So at that time I decided I need to

00:34:08.510 - 00:34:21.450

look for a permanent place. So instead of renting for an office space, maybe I can purchase a space. Um, it took me about three years looking for spaces and one time, one day I walk into a

00:34:21.510 - 00:34:36.310

church— actually used to be office building, somebody converted into church. And then I walked into it. It was right after Katrina. It was after Katrina and then...

00:34:36.480 - 00:34:47.720

or Ike, I think was after Ike was after Ike. I walked into that building and they were debris everywhere. There

00:34:47.720 - 00:35:02.680

were pews that are already stain and then, um, the ceiling has a hole in it and it was in very, very bad shape. There's a fake places and then everything was a mess. They're- the trash everywhere

00:35:02.680 - 00:35:14.580

and all that and then they were asking for a price I think I was able to afford it. So I decided to buy it. My husband said, “that's stupid. What are you buying a- like a, a place that will take you

00:35:14.580 - 00:35:32.230

forever to clean up.” And then the first thing I thought was like, “You know with this space, with the sanctuary, I can probably make it into a recital hall. And then all the spaces upstairs, I can probably turn into studios and all that.” I was like, “maybe I should

00:35:32.230 - 00:35:44.570

try it.” And I had, um, Houston Piano Company-- Steve to, to thank for actually having come in to check it out and see what he think. He said, “I think it's a great space, but I don't think you can do it.” I was like,

00:35:44.910 - 00:35:59.460

“Well, let me try it. I'm not doing it as a real job just for a hobby. So it doesn't work, it doesn't work, but at least I can utilize the space I purchase.” And thank the Lord I was able to get the- the building, the CLC came- came

00:35:59.820 - 00:36:13.300

about. The Campbell Learning Center came about because I just feel like, “Hey, I can probably do something on the side since I can't sit still anyway.” So I just went ahead and said, “Let me try to have a music school.” I didn't

00:36:13.340 - 00:36:27.370

teach that many students at that time. We started with 50 students for almost three, four years before we start blowing up. So- so that's how CLC come about. And the whole point is I want to try non-profit,

00:36:28.650 - 00:36:44.150

everybody say you should do for-profit! I say, “well, I already have for-profit company. I just want to see how non-profit works.” So that's why I use CLC as a non-profit. And I've- I've done a lot of stuff I enjoy, too, like giving out Spring Branch

00:36:44.150 - 00:37:00.400

School, a lot of lessons for free. We let that- we worked with Box Society, Da Camera, a whole bunch of non-profit organizations; invite them to come into our studio, and then they- they give out like educational concerts.

00:37:00.710 - 00:37:19.710

Um, we go to community to perform. And that's all I think what non-profit can do that for-profit may or may not want to do. So that was something I actually enjoyed too. Did you teach primarily music back then?

00:37:20.630 - 00:37:33.880

Um, I kind of read about your curriculum. Now it is both languages and music; when you started, was it primarily music? You mean in CLC?

00:37:33.880 - 00:37:43.400

Yeah. No, we went backwards. Um, well, we started, uh, with 50 kids. I was trying to be very

00:37:43.400 - 00:37:58.260

creative. And I know that there was a need of people learning Chinese that was before like, immersion school starts and all that. But then there was a trend that every other thing was all like having the, the wave of people learning Chinese.

00:37:58.810 - 00:38:13.680

So I said, “Hey, I can do that, too. I have big space, I'll do whatever I want.” So I actually was teaching the non-heritage kids, uh Chinese at that time; but kids had no interest in it, it's difficult.

00:38:14.050 - 00:38:27.330

So few things I had require. And that kind of caused the school stop, too, is because it's very hard to find teacher. At that time I told them I said, “I need all your classes in PowerPoints and then you also

00:38:27.330 - 00:38:37.900

have to assign some kind of songs.” Every month, I actually give them cooking lessons, because we actually have a live kitchen, um, kitchen in CLC.

00:38:37.950 - 00:38:52.600

So we were teaching kids how to make Chinese food and stuff like that, to encourage kids to come in to learn Chinese. And, um, I probably did it for about three years. So I did that Chinese for three years and then after a

00:38:53.410 - 00:39:04.080

couple more years, I was very tired because I, I was literally drained already. So that's when I said, “okay, well let's put- put a stop to it so I can rest.” ‘Cause I was start getting sick and all that.

00:39:04.170 - 00:39:14.110

Um, then I quit doing so. We haven't bring Chinese back for a while. We also have a friend of mine, a friend of mine that teach Spanish. So she came into three.

00:39:14.500 - 00:39:24.400

We're still having Spanish right now. Um so, no more Chinese school, but we still have Spanish. We still have cooking class. We actually work with H-E-B sometimes too.

00:39:24.930 - 00:39:36.980

Uh, that kind of put it on hold a couple years ago, but every year we still invite, like chef from Taiwan, or other country; and they'll come into use the facility to teach people how to cook.

00:39:37.570 - 00:39:48.180

So we still have culture classes per se in there. The only thing that I'm very proud of I'm hoping to bring it back soon, is music therapy for a lot of autistic kids.

00:39:48.630 - 00:39:57.480

We teach them how to dance. We teach them how to cook. We teach them how to respect one another because a lot of times when they're finished cooking they want to put it in

00:39:57.480 - 00:40:06.140

their mouth. I say, “well hold on. You see mommy, daddy next to you? Have them eat first.” And then they all look at me funny and I say, “they will only eat one bite.

00:40:06.140 - 00:40:20.570

You can have the rest.” And then everybody would just give it- give them one bite, and say, “no more.” And then they'll take it and finish more. But then what I'm trying to tell them is that you do need to respect your elderly that even when I'm teaching in uh, uh

00:40:20.570 - 00:40:32.560

CYC, which is Chinese Youth Camp, always make the kid stand up and give me a bow before we start the classroom. Because that's what we did in Taiwan. And I told them I said, “that's one thing you really need to learn, is respect the

00:40:32.560 - 00:40:40.980

elderlies.” And kids make fun of me before. But now they're used to it. They like the concept, they like the idea. Teacher loved it.

00:40:40.980 - 00:40:53.740

Whether you're- you're American teacher, Vietnamese teacher, I told them that's a requirement. First time it got kind of weird; afterwards is like, “hey! That's pretty cool!” Because kids walk up on the campus, they still will

00:40:53.800 - 00:41:05.560

bow to the teacher, and that's- that's something I think I always enjoy doing it. But now CLC now is hundred– almost hundred percent music now, we don't have the culture class as much anymore.

00:41:05.650 - 00:41:19.350

Oh, I see. Uh, and how do you- the school— how does the school, uh sustain financially? Like do you get fundings from the state, or- We tried.

00:41:19.560 - 00:41:32.220

I think when I started uh, the school, someone had told me said that, “it would take you ten years before people know who you are. So don’t expect people giving you money.”

00:41:32.640 - 00:41:43.370

Um, what we do is that we actually have, have tuitions. Students come in and have tuitions. Uh, we were very lucky. Two years ago we got awarded to be the, uh, agent for

00:41:43.470 - 00:41:53.420

ABRSM, which is the Royal School of Music in- in London. Um, they actually will host their examination in our facility. So that brought us some of– some income.

00:41:54.660 - 00:42:07.080

Um, Spring Branch also awarded us to do some of the after-school programs, so that’s some income as well. But that’s actually reciprocal because they give us the money, and we actually will go to different, um, needed

00:42:07.080 - 00:42:18.950

school to give them the free lesson, too. Um, we used to get money from Chevron because um some— one of the parents was doing Med Treatment. So we get some of that.

00:42:18.950 - 00:42:28.150

But no, we don’t have a lot of funding from everyone. But once a while they will. Like whenever we get gala we had a standup

00:42:28.280 - 00:42:42.480

piano on our stage, that was donated by one of the church member. Because she said, she doesn’t play; her mother passed away, and then she wanted to put it in somewhere where everybody can use. So that was very very nice of her.

00:42:42.880 - 00:42:59.570

So um, um we did a fundraising, key-for-key and people donate some money; so sometimes we do that, too. But no, most of the time, I kind of have to pay for the space so the- so the teachers have someplace to teach.

00:43:00.000 - 00:43:11.060

I see. How about the students? How do you select the students? Well um, I had amazing manager, or director. Her name is Natalie Voogt.

00:43:11.790 - 00:43:21.450

Um, she actually managed the school very well. Uh during h- during this coronavirus time, uh that was week before spring break.

00:43:21.960 - 00:43:33.030

We had decided to move it to online. So uh we were lucky that we were able to sustain some of the student all- we still lost 25% of the student, um, because there is such a

00:43:33.130 - 00:43:42.750

uncertainty in the air life . But uh, I think we are sustaining okay. Um Natalie actually- eh student that come in we have oral interview.

00:43:43.240 - 00:43:55.520

They have 15 minutes’ evaluation just to make sure that they know what they are doing. And um throughout um, learning process we actually make them go through either exams.

00:43:55.780 - 00:44:09.450

Um, aviarson has some great eight level system, so you can kind of- parents can understand that if the kids are learning enough or not. So nowadays a lot of students coming in, we kind of like first question we ask: what level are you in?

00:44:10.050 - 00:44:21.900

Because we are getting a lot of experienced students now. So at level 3, level 5, level 8 kids are coming through and they- their expectation is different, so it’s kind of fun. Most of my teachers say they enjoy

00:44:21.970 - 00:44:34.710

learning- or teaching in CLC because we have very high quality students that willing to learn and willing to put their time in and stuff. Um, and how about your

00:44:34.870 - 00:44:50.590

involvement with the communities, like you have the Taiwanese Chamber of Commerce, Taiwanese American Association, Formosa Musician Association, and HYC, that you mentioned, the Houston Youth Camp?

00:44:51.180 - 00:45:03.320

Yeah. Um… My- these are the one I have titles, but they are whole bunch of different things I do that’s- that doesn't have any titles. Uh Houston Taiwanese Chamber of Commerce I think

00:45:04.110 - 00:45:17.490

ever since I graduated from college, I was- I was always in some kind of chamber of commerce. I think, uh, grew up in the family that’s in the lumber business, like kind of make me have the

00:45:17.690 - 00:45:29.410

brain to think about business and I was enjoying learning different thing like I mentioned before. So, um, Taiwanese Chamber of Commerce actually I joined ever since I was twenty. So about 30 years now.

00:45:29.710 - 00:45:43.200

I- they finally gave me a title last year. So, um that I do, I started doing a little bit more for them. But Tai- uh Taiwanese American Association, TAA, is something I think I’m

00:45:43.200 - 00:45:56.550

very passionate about. My dad was a member before and then when I come back to Houston, uh Ming Li is- was the president last year, so she kind of make me to be one of the member. Um, we

00:45:56.550 - 00:46:08.940

do a lot of fun things together. We had done “Taiwan Yes” for the past 5 years, this is the first year we had to skip due to coronavirus. If it weren’t for that, we would’ve had it last Saturday

00:46:08.960 - 00:46:25.590

because we already had it set, but then had to cancel the last minute. Um, we do- TAAH actually met a lot of politicians, but the pleasure to met the president probably 6,7 times, uh from Taiwan.

00:46:27.430 - 00:46:38.630

Had couple times actually close enough to get– having a conversation with her. Uh so that was really fun. Uh all this community things um, I had

00:46:38.670 - 00:46:50.600

mentioned we- I’ve been here since ‘82. I’m the pro-Houstonian, because this is uh my hometown. I grew up in Houston, and I learned a lot of things in Houston; I love Houston. But

00:46:50.910 - 00:47:05.110

Taiwan is home. I think it’s- it’s my root and I’m also proud of that, too. And it’s always a pleasure to be in the community services because it’s almost like, I’m sharing my culture with

00:47:05.180 - 00:47:18.230

my hometown friends, and that something I always enjoying to do. So um, these stuff I do. But there are other a lot of stuff I do that actually outside of these organizations, but it’s

00:47:18.230 - 00:47:30.510

something that I’m constantly doing like I- I enjoy working with the Museum of Fine Arts, did the “Emperors’ Treasures” a couple- three years ago. It was a whole bunch of fun. Um Beatrice

00:47:30.510 - 00:47:45.450

Chan, who was the uh— what is her title? I can’t remember her title— Curator Assistant, I think. Um, is that what her title is? I don’t remember. But Beatrice has mentioned that I’m probably the

00:47:45.510 - 00:48:01.650

only one just like her, that’s able to do uh Mandarin and English. And so we actually hosted whole bunch of people, I would think over 10,000 people, each of us, to let them enjoy the- the

00:48:02.130 - 00:48:15.130

artwork that they had and had the pleasure to introduce “Ten Drum”, the, the drum team from Taiwan to Houston as well. Um they would’ve come again this year, but then due to coronavirus,

00:48:15.540 - 00:48:29.220

um they suspended all visa; so they weren’t- they weren’t able to come. They were supposed to come September, so that was canceled. But um I had pleasure to work with like Asian Society Museum, whole bunch of wonderful people.

00:48:29.640 - 00:48:43.680

And that’s something I always enjoyed doing it because I think um, people are more accept- acceptable about all sorts of stuff, um we did the museum, the– the– the Winter Festival this year.

00:48:43.870 - 00:48:59.630

I was a MC for them, and that was a lot of fun, too. Uh watching people enjoy my culture, watching people um making fun of our, um, toys and stuff like that, the way we dress, I think it’s okay.

00:48:59.850 - 00:49:10.720

It’s fun. It’s something that they had to make fun of before they know how to appreciate. So it’s a lot of fun thing to work together with everyone. And that’s my passion.

00:49:10.770 - 00:49:28.470

I wanna share my culture with my hometown people and then it’s always fun to do all that. I mean, CYC, Houston Chinese Youth Campus does same thing too because this- these kids are ABC, well now we have all sorts of different people join us now. 285 kids

00:49:28.660 - 00:49:41.790

each time. Um I had taught for three years, teach them how to make sushi, bento box, uh teach them how to make um Yue Bing, uh which is moon cake. Um, or like noodles and all that.

00:49:41.870 - 00:49:48.620

They are fascinated. We give them stories about it. I also go to BCC to teach. I even teach them how to

00:49:48.620 - 00:50:00.790

make tofu from scratch, and they think it’s a lot of fun. They don’t like to eat it, but they had a lot of fun doing it. And that’s something that’s all- I think, like I mentioned I’m just one of the

00:50:00.870 - 00:50:14.800

person that like to tell people what to do, so having this kind of thing to share to people is always a lot of fun. Yeah. So do you— do these associations, have any um, collaborations with CLC at some

00:50:14.860 - 00:50:27.000

point? Um, not much. I think I- I still a traditional girl, I’m afraid to ask my um, fellow friends to ask for donation.

00:50:27.410 - 00:50:38.680

So lot of time I don’t do a lot of that, but uh sometimes we do collaboration as that they will come and actually borrow my spaces to do cooking class. Um so we did a few

00:50:38.750 - 00:50:50.420

time. Like almost guarantee every year somebody is here borrowing spaces. Um, I had the pleasure to meet a lot of famous chef from Taiwan. TV um person and all that comes through.

00:50:50.780 - 00:51:06.650

So it’s, it’s a- it’s fun, um that’s– that’s probably what we do a lot. Um CYC actually use my space same thing for all the conference trainings and all that stuff. Yeah. Excuse me, I’m going to go get some tea.

00:51:17.100 - 00:51:30.580

Ok. Talk too much. Uh if you don’t mind sharing, uh how is your budget, your annual budget for the CLC? Like how do you sustain the fundings and the expenditures?

00:51:33.000 - 00:51:46.830

Uh, we run about 100 to hund- uh, 200 thousand, uh, per year. Um, that’s- that’s about- that’s not a lot, but that’s about how much we raise.

00:51:46.860 - 00:52:04.500

Mhm. Um, and moving on, can you share with us your relationship with the Chinatown? Like the area, all the restaurants and all the happening of um, yeah a lot of the communities

00:52:06.100 - 00:52:19.090

going on there? Chinatown is a fun place. I think uh, there is a magazine I sort of enjoy reading and I- I never subscribe to it, but I buy a lot of them. It’s the “Houstonians”.

00:52:19.640 - 00:52:31.360

Um, I remember one time they literally talk about Chinatown. Uh, it was something that I didn’t realize that it’s true what they talk about. It’s a- any restaurant with double name actually will, um

00:52:32.170 - 00:52:43.740

um— what did they say? Double name will actually open until past midnight. And then you sit there and think about it like, “oh yeah, Tan Tan, Sinh Sinh, Fu Fu, they all- they all like

00:52:43.880 - 00:52:53.530

work for long time and all are restaurants I grew up with. I remember um, I started eating Tan Tan ever since I was in high school— college I think.

00:52:54.110 - 00:53:05.780

Sinh Sinh I actually was friends with the owner’s son. We went to college together. So- so Chinatown has been a part of my life ‘cause I used to live in Alief, so it’s not far from it.

00:53:06.190 - 00:53:21.620

Um, we do a lot of um shopping there. Nowaday- um, before this happened I pretty much go there almost everyday either to go eat, go buy grocery or meet up with friends, um, cultural center is a lot- um one of the place I do a

00:53:21.620 - 00:53:34.600

lot of, uh uh- a project called “Splendor of Taiwan”. “Splendor of Taiwan.” I had done it for 10 years. Doing exactly the same thing, telling people how wonderful my culture is, telling them that we have a lot of activity like uh,

00:53:34.830 - 00:53:48.200

whether it’s origami, or Chinese painting, and all sorts of different kind of stuff. Um, flower arrangements, uh we even- even teach people how to play e rhu. That was something I’m very

00:53:48.200 - 00:54:01.430

proud, ‘cause I can always- I can teach anyone how to play “Twinkle Twinkle Little Star” in less than 5 minutes. And they always fascinated about that. So um, so I’m- yeah, you can probably

00:54:01.650 - 00:54:12.360

say that I am a Chinatown Girl. Grew up there and enjoyed it there. Um, even going to the temple, sharing with people about what temple is, or what do we do,

00:54:12.400 - 00:54:26.320

what’s the difference in culture, religion and stuff like that. Um my stepdaughter, I remember when she was in Middle School, she was failing algebra terribly. She was so bad that um, she

00:54:26.320 - 00:54:39.960

didn’t know what to do. So one day, I literally took her to temple— um which one did I take her? The one on Turtlewood. And I tell her- I explained to her, I say, “all these deities are

00:54:40.120 - 00:54:53.370

almost like... In the United States, they all have their own job. They either take care of culture or they take care of wisdom, they take care of, uh, having baby or dating…” And I was explaining to her

00:54:53.370 - 00:55:07.040

and all that. So we went to the “Wenchang Gong”2 and I- I showed it to her, and I said, “if you pray to this one, you probably have better grades.” And she was working really hard, she prayed

00:55:07.140 - 00:55:19.140

for about ten minutes. I don’t know what she was talking about, she literally just kind of bowed down and talked like I- you know, they had the incense in their hand. Um, strangely enough, uh,

00:55:19.320 - 00:55:34.210

the next week that she actually got pretty high grades. Um, believe it or not, she’s graduating this coming June from UCLA with a Math Degree. So- so it’s kind of like, she said, “no, it’s really- it

00:55:34.210 - 00:55:46.390

does work.” So uh, all my kids actually believe in that nowadays. My daughter literally make me go to the temple before Chinese New Year, so we can get a lucky charm for the rest of the year. Um, they

00:55:46.420 - 00:55:59.840

all think that– that works. Um, I have a way of telling lies without people knowing it and apparently most people believe it for long time, so that’s kind of funny that what we do here is

00:55:59.840 - 00:56:13.170

um… yeah. So um, when you say you teach erhu as well, is that part of the curriculum at uh, CLC? “Splendor in Taiwan”? No no no, that’s uh- CLC I’m teaching one of my friend because she

00:56:13.170 - 00:56:25.530

made me. But- but um, I’m not charging her anything because she– she brought one home from Taiwan; so she made me teach her. I do that, but no, uh it’s “Splendor in Taiwan”, because we have over 40 projects.

00:56:26.040 - 00:56:34.710

And the teacher get to pick what they want to do. So one of the school that we go a lot there, we ran out of ideas. So I say, “ok, well I’ll just bring an instrument and show

00:56:34.750 - 00:56:47.810

them.” Um, it was- it was pretty fun and then I even teach the high schooler how to play and he– he enjoyed it too. So it’s a lot of fun things that you can do and then because it’s limited time, we

00:56:47.810 - 00:57:02.140

always make the project in- in about an hour. And you have to have- you have to teach a little history, and you have to teach them something quiet like origami or instrument; and then teach them Kung Fu or something that’s like, you know, exciting.

00:57:02.490 - 00:57:13.650

So uh- so that’s how we have all sort of different project that teach people. And music was one of them. So teaching e rhu— I can probably teach you in 5 minutes, too.

00:57:13.840 - 00:57:23.950

Or maybe less or maybe you already know how to play! 2 Or “Wenchang Wang”, is a Taoist deity in Chinese mythology, known as the God of Culture and Literature. Yeah, I’d love to sometime. Andy’s very good at it, so...3

00:57:24.080 - 00:57:41.420

Um, so what kind of vision, uh do you have with the CLC in say 5-10 years? Um, maybe less than 5 years my vision is that, I will be out of CLC. Uh, since it is

00:57:41.420 - 00:57:57.430

non-profit, I will like to have some teachers to take over this project, um and to let it continue. I think that um, I don’t do much with it except managing the finance part, so if I can find a board

00:57:57.430 - 00:58:06.380

member that can help the managing. Because I have noticed most of the musicians doesn’t know how to- they’re not good with numbers and they are not good with money. So if someone can

00:58:06.380 - 00:58:19.070

manage it for them, I think I like to pass it down and let them have more fun with it. I think CLC has been a fun playground for a lot of musicians. They enjoy working there and I’d like to have

00:58:19.340 - 00:58:33.680

that continue. So that’s something I would like to give it to them, and have them to kind of continue enjoying it and have that for whenever they want. So… So how about the curriculum?

00:58:34.270 - 00:58:48.290

Um, I remember you said, you kind of eliminated the– the cultural and languages class, and focus only on music. Are you planning to do that? Um, yeah, we’re probably pretty much doing the same way.

00:58:48.420 - 00:59:02.470

Um we, um culture classes have been taking over quite a bit by a lot of culture centers. Um, Chinese School, you have seen a lot of school district, actually is offering Chinese classes now.

00:59:03.220 - 00:59:15.840

I actually go to a lot of them, like the Mems Um, I go to Sinkarack , I go to a lot of school to do a lot of culture classes myself. So it’s outside of CLC, but with “Splendor of Taiwan” with the

00:59:15.840 - 00:59:29.420

cultural center of TECO, we actually go and do a lot of culture thing, so I don’t think I need to repeat or do something for-profit and then do for non-profit; because when I go up to teach all this culture it’s all free,

00:59:30.010 - 00:59:41.330

and that’s something I enjoying to do. Because when it’s free, nobody is upset that you are doing a bad job. So- so um I like to keep doing that. So that- that part I think it’s okay.

00:59:41.980 - 00:59:54.540

Um, CLC had become, like I mentioned, it’s a musician’s playground. They’re doing such a wonderful job making the music education flourish already. I think that what we have seen a lot

00:59:54.540 - 01:00:08.270

of kids that actually know how to discipline themselves better. Um, I- unfortunate because of my experience, whenever when the kids are playing very well, winning a lot of competition, I like to

01:00:08.270 - 01:00:23.510

pull the parents on the side and I say, “by the way, I need to tell you, that you may not make a lot of money if they’re playing very well, so you need to make sure they’re well— they do well in other stuff as well.” So um, I had convinced one of the child,

01:00:24.520 - 01:00:35.790

he just graduated last year. He was winning a lot of awards and I had to- I had to pull the mom aside and tell her. And she actually 3 Elaine Tao was connected to the archive by Andy Lin.

01:00:36.160 - 01:00:45.690

His oral history interview can be found at: Andy Lin, Feb 10th 2020. Houston Asian American Archives oral history interviews. understood and accept it. So I think this child eventually is going to um, medical school, so

01:00:45.690 - 01:01:00.900

which is good. ‘Cause I always tell them, when you do well, that means that they are disciplined enough. If they can play that much- that many music- that much music while they’re going to school, make sure their grades are still there. They are very important-

01:01:01.440 - 01:01:06.970

Hello? Hello? Actually, it kind of- Are you okay? Yep. Yes I’m here.

01:01:06.970 - 01:01:21.720

Um sorry. The internet wasn’t- yeah the best. But go on. Yeah, sorry. Yeah, something, missing some... Okay. Uh-oh.

01:01:21.850 - 01:01:36.980

Yeah, um, cool. Um and do you plan to work with any other schools in the future? Um, for what? I’m sorry. Um do you want to, do you plan to collaborate with other schools

01:01:37.130 - 01:01:50.570

and to build a curriculum like having them to come over for classes or uh, their students to come over for classes and vice versa? Mmm, we will always love to do that.

01:01:50.810 - 01:02:07.170

Actually uh, CLC’s next big project, what we’re doing is actually try to encourage adults student to learn music. I think uh, somehow we kind of realized that when you retire at 65, or somebody-

01:02:08.650 - 01:02:23.720

most people might be even younger and um, as a empty nester; I kind of tell Natalie I say, “you know, when you don’t have to cook everyday and you have no kids to scream at, you have a lot of time in your life.

01:02:23.720 - 01:02:37.180

And so our goal is to let them understand that you can play something, or you can learn something.” Um learning um sports might be a good idea, but then your hand eye coordination might get

01:02:37.570 - 01:02:50.860

limited and all that. So we are trying to let everybody understand that it might be good if you pick up an instrument. Something you- you- you wish you were to as a kid, or something to challenge yourself.

01:02:51.670 - 01:03:07.260

Um, I myself play piano all my life, but two years ago, I decided to pick up harp. Um, it’s difficult. It’s- even though there’s just few strings, but it’s not easy to play. But I can stick to it because I want

01:03:07.260 - 01:03:21.540

to do better and then I think with that experience, I think it’s good to share with everyone and accept that, you know, you probably have another 35 years to live, why don’t you just enjoy something yourself? ‘Cause not everyone know how to sing well, so…

01:03:21.540 - 01:03:41.660

Wow. Um, great. And just to pick on your opinion, what- what is your view on the Asian-American uh, who are regarded in the education system? Um, so like there’s a lot of hoops

01:03:41.860 - 01:03:55.800

that um, the Asian-American kids have to jump through in order to um, be on the same level to uh- in the kind of entrance exam for colleges. Like what is your opinion on

01:03:59.010 - 01:04:13.790

that? You’re saying that a lot of kids are having issues because they have to jump a lot of hoops to go into a higher education, is that what you’re saying? Yeah, the college entrance system. I personally had no idea about that.

01:04:13.790 - 01:04:26.160

I know that there is a lot of people talking about AA system, and the descrimination so far. Um, I’m not one of those persons- and actually I personally spoke to Andrew Yang last year.

01:04:27.510 - 01:04:42.230

Um, we had that conversation ‘cause one of the lady came up and talk about this and one opinion Andrew Yang had— me and Andrew actually had the same idea. I think that it doesn’t matter what school you go to.

01:04:43.120 - 01:04:54.370

It’s what you have learned as basic that’s more important. Um I think he graduated from Columbia or something like that. Um he said that he didn’t get into Harvard. He turned out okay.

01:04:54.940 - 01:05:05.070

Um, I myself not a studious person. I didn’t go to Rice, I went to U of H. I think I came out okay.

01:05:05.450 - 01:05:23.960

Um, I enjoyed my life, and then I think that um, a lot of time is what you have labeled yourself that will cause you a lot more headache, and that’s what Andrew and I believe in, and we tried to convince the mom. Of course, she’s very mad at our- our answer because Andrew was

01:05:23.960 - 01:05:40.420

saying this and I- and I say, “Andrew, I totally agree with you and, um…” And we tried to give her helpful example, and she said, “but no, my son is so good, why can’t he get into Harvard?” Um, we always that- I believed why do you have to set yourself in a square,

01:05:41.260 - 01:05:55.420

and why do you have to always stay in that square? Um, so I think that it’s depending what will make yourself happy, and you have to see that there is so many thing in life to make yourself happy. Um, I- I might

01:05:55.420 - 01:06:11.050

have passion for music, but I didn’t make money in music. I- I was able to work hard and have my own career before I come back to music. Um, so going- AA system to me, I just think that

01:06:11.390 - 01:06:25.310

it might be a ceiling that the parents are putting on. Not necessarily the child. And that was what me and Andrew was talking about. I was like, you know, “I feel sorry for these kids, and of course I never put my kids

01:06:25.310 - 01:06:39.180

in that ceiling.” Um, they’re not the hottest kids, none of them are- are Harvard grading kids, but I think they are happy. I think, um, they’re- they are able to do whatever they

01:06:39.180 - 01:06:53.070

want. My kids’ gone through a lot of things that other kids might not be able to do, and I’m very proud of them. And then, so that’s something I think that we need to think. Um, ceiling-wise it’s depending what you put it in.

01:06:54.040 - 01:07:05.090

Not other people say so. So, um, so that’s my personal opinion. I think that I’m the weird one. So… How did you meet Andrew Yang?

01:07:05.450 - 01:07:20.690

Just curious. Um, he was at- he was looking for money. Uh, so he had- he asked TAA to host a- a meeting for him, so we had gathered about 4-5 hundred people and get- uh, did a fundraising for

01:07:20.690 - 01:07:36.040

him. So we had a chance to chat and then a, a lot of stuff he said, I do agree. Um, and you can see that Trump is trying to do what he does, but he’s not getting it right; because there is a lot of things that you have to do before you give them a thousand dollars.

01:07:36.100 - 01:07:47.010

But- if he’s doing the wrong way, but just my personal opinion. But um, Andrew Yang’s thing that’s very important to talk about that he had mentioned is to

01:07:47.010 - 01:07:59.780

educate yourself. Um, education is important not just for personal things, but it’s for everything. Um, take my business per say. This is my twentieth year for my dental lab.

01:08:00.310 - 01:08:16.250

We went from manual to automation. We went from analog to digital. Um, it will never come easy as- a, a, a person that’s managing it because you’re- you’re literally changing your

01:08:16.430 - 01:08:27.410

company into a different way of doing it. Uh you, when you’re going into digital, you need to have your customer accepting it. Um, but at the same time in your company, you have to give them a lot of

01:08:27.590 - 01:08:44.170

education in order for them to change into it. Um, having that done, we have never reduced our staff, um, but we actually educate all the staff and that was what Andrew Yang was talking about. Um, he said most company are not doing it, but it’s so important

01:08:44.580 - 01:08:54.930

if you treat your- your- your staff as your family, you had to do that together. And that was something I believed in him, I know that he had no chance.

01:08:55.140 - 01:09:11.330

But um, but I think if somehow, somewhere people understand what he’s saying, um the world might be a little better. I think that everybody can uh, go back to our tradition is that, education is still important, you know?

01:09:12.060 - 01:09:20.720

Education doesn’t mean you have to go to Harvard, but education means— how to make yourself better? How to make life better? How to make your company better?

01:09:21.330 - 01:09:31.810

How do you make CLC better? How do you make Eden Image better? All this together is the drive for your life. Um, so you can do better and it has so

01:09:31.810 - 01:09:43.010

many things to learn. So it’ll make your life a little busy, too. Which is good, so… Man, I sound like an old person… Sorry! Very wise one.

01:09:43.130 - 01:09:57.930

Um, yeah, so currently we’re in the most historical time that will definitely be talked about for many many years I would say. Um, we have a special COVID-19

01:09:58.080 - 01:10:12.830

episode that we will ask a series of questions regarding the changes this, um, pandemic has done to our lives. Um, you mentioned a couple of times already that’s regarding CLC. Your school

01:10:12.830 - 01:10:27.750

has lost staff and uh, students and like a number of board meetings canceled. Um, can you kind of, comment on how your life has changed due to the pandemic? Oh… so much has changed.

01:10:27.750 - 01:10:39.320

I mean, I have to cut everyday and I have to wash so many clothes and I can’t go out to eat, I’m craving for like a good plate of sushi so I don’t have to wash dishes.

01:10:39.400 - 01:10:53.400

I mean a lot of to switch gear of because business is not as busy, then you kind of focus on family a little bit more. I mean, there is more fight with my husband as well, but then

01:10:53.720 - 01:11:05.030

we somehow able to manage to solve it by the end of the day. Learning how to cook different things I think is the main thing. I- a lot of friends says I haven’t been talking much, and then I

01:11:05.030 - 01:11:17.090

explain to them because I don’t know what to say. Um, I think I- it’s almost like that– what’s the four emotions that you go through when you lost something? It’s kind of like that concept.

01:11:17.490 - 01:11:31.200

The first I was in shock, and then I was angry; and then I was sad; now I have the drive and I understand what to do with it. My girlfriend called me yesterday, she said, “I haven’t gone out for a month. I am so afraid to go out because I’m gonna

01:11:31.200 - 01:11:43.560

get coronavirus and how can you work everyday when all this stuff is happening?” So I kind of explained and say, “now I come to a conclusion on what we need to do. Um, at first we were

01:11:43.760 - 01:11:54.210

upset when this happened. But then this might be just something we explore to understand what to do. Um, make sure that you wash your hands with water. Make sure that you protect yourself

01:11:54.210 - 01:12:07.770

well. It doesn’t mean still when you go out, you're gonna get coronavirus. It doesn’t work that way. Uh, don’t scare yourself. Um, to- you need to have the brave to face it and know what

01:12:07.840 - 01:12:21.520

to do.” I mean, there is a lot of positive news. Most people that die actually have pre-existing conditions. A lot of them are man. So, I think I’m not in any of those things and so, I think if I

01:12:21.520 - 01:12:37.840

actually caught it, I might be okay. But even if I caught it and nothing is okay, that’s life. And that’s something we just have to deal with. It’s- it’s something that I think that we can take advantage of this time to do

01:12:37.840 - 01:12:50.910

more things that we enjoy. I’m actually- I have a lot of webinar that I have to catch up to learn, update myself to do better. Uh, I had to sit down in my office, uh rewrite my numbers and then kind of figure

01:12:50.910 - 01:13:00.130

out what will be the next step, and then also planning- if we actually restart our business- what do we need to do to make it cleaner? Um, all this stuff.

01:13:00.400 - 01:13:12.070

I still got things to do. Uh, I have more time to, like I mentioned, cooking and cleaning and all those, so. I’m packing up a lot of old clothes so I can donate it to people.

01:13:12.490 - 01:13:26.480

I might not be able to have money to donate right now because it’s such a cris- crisis, but then I can figure out maybe I can make something for people. So I’m trying to figure out if I can get some old clothes to make masks and that

01:13:26.550 - 01:13:40.210

kind of stuff or try to, uh, learn how to make masks, uh the face shield with a 3D printer and stuff like that. I mean, there’s a lot of fun project- a lot of fun things we can do together, so I’m not worried now,

01:13:41.120 - 01:13:55.040

not as worried as probably back in end of may- march. Uh I think that I’m looking forward to seeing what the whole world would do. I was telling my secretary today, I say, “I wish that we

01:13:55.040 - 01:14:06.570

can have a person in the world to get up together and say— okay, enough guessing. Let’s figure out what we need to do. Let’s have a plan. Let’s get together and have a plan.” I think that might

01:14:06.610 - 01:14:20.070

be the best thing to do because I think everybody is guessing right now and it’s just hard to- to just kind of follow, so… Um, how has the uh, management of the school- like are you conducting classes online

01:14:20.200 - 01:14:32.480

and… Yes. All classes are online, we somehow because our software cannot do Zoom, so we ended up doing Skype because they have a connection with Skype.

01:14:33.150 - 01:14:45.380

So when- when the Zoom- crazy thing happened with Zoom, we didn’t have any effect. So it- it was okay. Um, I think the hardest part is the, a lot of our teachers are performers and

01:14:45.530 - 01:14:57.010

they weren’t able to get a lot of gigs; so um, they are having their tough time. Um, we are trying to encourage them to have like, virtual concert, so people can join and stuff like that.

01:14:57.130 - 01:15:12.440

That’s about all we can do right now. And, um, once in a while, I think Natalie did a great thing, it’s that, um, if you want to, she actually will actually Uber Eats some foods for you once a week, so giving

01:15:12.490 - 01:15:25.080

them something to look forward to, and that’s very nice. So… So what other ways have you engaged in any responses to the outbreak?

01:15:25.930 - 01:15:42.590

Um- Um… We’re trying to print the face shield, in case if the business started again, I think that all my dentist customer might need something to protect themselves.

01:15:43.000 - 01:15:54.120

So we are learning how to do that. Um, not much. I don’t know how to help them because I think if I go outside, people gonna be afraid.

01:15:55.510 - 01:16:08.800

Um, donating money, I’m so worried that it doesn’t make sense. So um, I do- I did donate some money to buy some masks and I don’t know what they do with the money. But um, um, that’s about it.

01:16:08.860 - 01:16:22.310

I kind of decided to take it upon myself because I’m gonna make some and I’m gonna do something; so when eventually business started, I have tried to order some face- uh, the facial shield, um, from China.

01:16:22.390 - 01:16:33.200

But I don’t have any luck yet. Um, that’s about it. Oh and then I go Chinatown to buy food every other day. Uh, give them like 25%

01:16:33.240 - 01:16:44.860

tips whenever I can, so. That’s- that’s about all I can do. Yeah. That’s important for them. Yeah. And what are your like kind of most memorable

01:16:45.860 - 01:17:00.230

moments and what, um, if anything good came out of the pandemic, what inspired you most? I don’t know. I might have to think about it.

01:17:00.890 - 01:17:16.940

‘Cause right now, I’m- what I- okay, I have stopped watching TV because there is nothing good to come out of it. You know what, I- there’s something I like to say, is I do appreciate city Mayor–

01:17:18.010 - 01:17:32.780

Mayor Turner, I think that he’s very calm, he’s very careful. I think that after Harvey, uh I- he has— to me— he has expressed that he’s able to manage this thing a little better than whoever’s up

01:17:32.880 - 01:17:49.060

there. Um, I think you can see the difference of how people can manage things better and I think, I think he did- among all those people, either Abbott, Trump, and all that, all that other people; I think he is more careful, take

01:17:49.100 - 01:18:04.240

more precautious things. And I’m very proud of– and I am proud to be a Houstonian, proud to have a leader like him, does such a great job. Um, he’s working just hours and hours to make

01:18:04.470 - 01:18:18.440

sure everything is okay, and I- and I think that whatever he said, I will actually truly follow, and then I believe that there is a better tomorrow. I mean, I think most people don’t know what to do, there’s no more concert

01:18:18.440 - 01:18:30.470

anymore. There’s no more opera, there’s, there’s no, no good Chinese- I mean even like good restaurant. Let’s say that- if I wanted to have a good French fogra, I can’t even get that because,

01:18:31.380 - 01:18:40.160

um, by the time I take it home, it doesn’t taste good anymore. You know, that kind of thing. Um, and even in such

01:18:40.160 - 01:18:52.170

hard time like that, I think that we can toughen it out. All the- all the on— that’s not worth mention, maybe will be around; but then those people that do well, they’ll come back. They’ll

01:18:52.170 - 01:19:03.640

find a way to come back. And I think that, you just have to have a positive thinking. Don’t- don’t be a victim. Be more positive and knowing that once

01:19:03.640 - 01:19:16.850

we survive all this, we will be much stronger. We all know how to have social distance and we may not have hug anymore, but I think that we still gonna love each other the same, whether we touch each other or not.

01:19:17.210 - 01:19:27.300

So that’s something that everybody needs to remember. So… Um, so how does the pandemic change your perspective of the future?

01:19:30.750 - 01:19:46.200

Hmm. Man, you ask tough questions. Um, I am so afraid, um, that fine arts might be something that disappears.

01:19:46.950 - 01:20:00.170

I’m very afraid of that because uh, as we’re in CLC as we uh, we kind of help out with all sorts of organization. We are gonna know that people at the end of the day,

01:20:00.350 - 01:20:14.370

they want to take care of themselves first. You know, uh Chinese say that “民以食為天”— you gotta eat first before you can donate things to people. Um, so I’m afraid that fine art, uh might be

01:20:14.370 - 01:20:28.450

put on hold. Whether it’s movie industries, um, whether it’s gallery presentation and all that, I am afraid of that. I am afraid that people are gonna forget.

01:20:28.670 - 01:20:42.860

We might have a pause in creativity because people that create, you may or not ever ever see again. Um, gathering might be limited, and that also might cause issue.

01:20:43.570 - 01:20:51.500

Um, entertainment business might be an issue. Something I’m kind of worried, um. But I think that pause might be limited.

01:20:51.860 - 01:21:03.050

It’s just something I’m very afraid of. Um, I’ve always enjoyed people’s creativity, and I’m afraid that I’m not going to get to see that for a while. Um, but we’ll see.

01:21:03.410 - 01:21:15.650

I mean, we’ll see what people can do. I mean, right now, it’s- everything is, is crazy, right? I mean, oil price is negative— um, how can you do better because nobody is

01:21:15.650 - 01:21:25.700

driving! That kind of thing. I have no idea what this world will become, too. Um, but I’m sure that there is a way to figure out what to do.

01:21:26.180 - 01:21:36.230

It’s just- resolution is not here yet. But I’m sure someone will find out. I’m taking my time studying more. I’m taking my time understanding

01:21:36.230 - 01:21:50.240

more. Um, doesn’t mean I will be better, but then I know I can better myself. Um, I’m just really worried about fine arts right now. How about um, CLC?

01:21:50.240 - 01:22:08.260

What do you think will- yeah like, is your classes gonna shrink, like are you gonna- Well, we already shrink about 25%. Um, all the after school is on hold, so um, most of my after- after school teachers are not doing anything so we’re pulling them into duel

01:22:08.260 - 01:22:22.370

admins. Um, but I- I’m foreseeing there is going to be 50% down anyways. Um, we’ll just tough it out. I mean, they- they- they don’t need to worry about other stuff.

01:22:22.370 - 01:22:32.950

The building is mine, so I can handle it myself. Um, and we’ll just make sure that teachers are- we’ll pay so they can live. That’s about it.

01:22:33.020 - 01:22:49.690

Um, but right now, all we care about is that, um, we’ll make sure everybody is healthy first, before we can do anything else. That’s it. Uh, how about the

01:22:49.690 - 01:23:02.370

non-profit side? Well, CLC is non-profit. So, um- I mean the industry and all. We’ll see, that had to go with fine

01:23:02.480 - 01:23:13.880

arts, right? ‘Cause a lot of fine arts are all non-profits because we can’t make a dime. Um, non-profit-wise will take a very big hit because there is no extra money anywhere.

01:23:16.090 - 01:23:28.370

We are talking about people who are in unemployment, that’s little money. But you’re talking about corporations has no income. Um, that gonna make a big affect. And it’s gonna- it’s gonna recycle back.

01:23:28.840 - 01:23:44.600

I mean, you got to understand, when this is all opening up, they still may not have a job, ‘cause your company may go belly up. So that’s why I’m so afraid that, you know, Jong Sol might not ever be there.

01:23:44.600 - 01:23:57.490

I mean, symphony might put a hold on it; Houston Opera might put a hold on it, you know? Uh, your major sponsor, Exxon, Shell; what have you, Chevron, they say, well I don’t have money for you anymore.

01:23:57.590 - 01:24:10.970

And then what they gonna do? I mean, this all gonna- I mean, non-profit is gonna take a big toll for sure. Yeah. Um, so yeah that’s the end of all the COVID-19 questions and just the

01:24:11.280 - 01:24:26.850

last few to conclude. Like um, what does your Taiwanese heritage mean to you? Passion, love, and fun. I think it’s, it’s what I have for my- my Taiwanese

01:24:26.850 - 01:24:40.290

culture and heritage. I think uh, we are people that- very passionate about what we have, and we have the love to share to everyone and then it’s always fun to get- gather together

01:24:40.770 - 01:24:51.160

and um, as a Taiwanese, I am very proud to be one, and I’m very proud I’m able to share my culture, too. Everyone else are willing to listen to me.

01:24:52.020 - 01:25:04.850

And how would you like to be remembered? Mmm… “Crazy Asian girl”. Oh. Not Crazy Rich Asian?

01:25:04.940 - 01:25:22.790

Oh! Not rich, but “Crazy Asian girl”, let’s put it that way. And what would you like to give as advice to younger generations who are pursuing their education and entrepreneurship like you did?

01:25:23.110 - 01:25:39.000

Always- um, I think- I think what I always believe in, um, learning anything is like learning a piece of music. You need to learn the basics, you need to work hard, and you’ll get there.

01:25:39.760 - 01:25:55.260

Um, and there are so many options in your life. Um, as a music major turn into minor, um, um as a business person turning into a dental is, is very very crazy, like I mentioned.

01:25:55.910 - 01:26:08.940

But if you study hard, you work hard, and you go step by step, never trying to skip or run, you’ll make who you are going to be, because you live a long time. You have a long time to learn it.

01:26:09.510 - 01:26:23.580

Uh, but you do it too fast, it’s easier to fall. And also, I think the most important thing is, don’t follow everybody else. Because everybody want to do the same thing, then you don’t have your own niche. So.

01:26:23.580 - 01:26:36.540

Wonderful advice. Well thank you. Yeah, thank you. Well that’s all my questions, and is there anything else you would

01:26:37.940 - 01:26:48.720

like to share? Thank you for giving me the chance to do this. I hope that you en- you enjoy it. I thoroughly enjoyed it, so thank you very much. Thank you for your valuable time.

01:26:48.720 - 01:27:02.070

No problem. Well you be safe! Yeah, you too! And hope we get out of the um, situation all like- yeah just looking forward to the future and have faith!

01:27:02.340 - 01:27:06.210

Yes. That’s all we need to have so thank you very much!