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Okay, perfect. So we are recording now. So good morning, or good afternoon, I guess. My name is Sam Lee and today I will be interviewing Dr. Yang for the Houston Asian American

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Archive. Okay so could we begin with a brief introduction from you about yourself? Yes. And thank you very much, Sam. And thanks for having me.

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And my name is Hongliang Yang, and just call me Hong, and Hong is my name and in my organization. And I started to use this about like six or seven years ago, and currently I am the Biosafety Officer of the

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Houston Methodist Research Institute. Yeah. Okay, perfect. So I'll begin with a little bit of background information. Can you please tell me about where

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and when you were born? I was–I was born in early 1970s, like in the village in Henan province in China. And, yeah, that's many years ago. Can you describe a little bit about

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the household you grew up in, such as your siblings, your parents, maybe a little bit about your neighborhood? Okay. And I'll be very glad to share like, my—how I grew up. And you know, just like, that village is very

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typical village in Henan Province. And it's a very typical family with like, all the farmers background. And my grandparents and my parents, and they're all farmers.

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And when I was a boy—when I was born, like, my family had about, like, 10 people in one–in one family. So my parents and my–my grandma, just like, cooked for the whole family. And my—both of my parents just worked in the

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farm, just the whole day, for the whole year, and I have two siblings. I have one older brother and I have one younger brother and also have one uncle–one uncle and one auntie, yes, and from my

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parents—from my dad's siblings. Yeah. I see. Could you maybe talk a little bit about your school life such as elementary, middle or high school? Maybe some things you could talk about are, was it like a gender

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specified school? Was it private or public? And yes. Sure. You know, my—you know, just like my life in early age is pretty typical, is like

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other students from the countryside in China in 1970s. I started my elementary school when I was seven. And my elementary school and

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my middle school, both were like in my village, so it's just about a half mile away from where I lived. And so it's very close. And I had studied there for like, five years in

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elementary school, and three years in middle school. And then I went to high school about eight miles from my hometown that is in the central town of the county. And just like what I remember most, like this, it's a very good memory, you know,

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just like all the students from the same village when I was in middle school and elementary school and very friendly. And also, just like, at that time, we had very limited, you know, resources.

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Not rich, actually pretty poor. No any like device like we have today. And just that we have books, so a lot of like, homework, and also just like I remember the—when I was very, like, in

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the first or second years, even there's no electrical light. I just like, I need to bring my, like, it's called like oil light, or you know, or candle sometimes, and so we can study at night in the school.

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Or you know, very early morning. Yeah. And then I just like, also I didn't start–start my English until I was in middle school. I was about like, 12

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years old or 13 years old. And so I didn't realize at that time, definitely like, I-I need to speak English every day. So I, okay, this might work. And at that time, my English just like, it just kind of like a window, opened the

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door to the outside world. And after I graduated from middle school, I went to the best high school in the county. So at that time, even, as you might don't know, like, more than

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half of students when they graduated from middle school, and they needed to live by themselves. They needed to find a job or just like half of them, they don't have—they didn't at that time, didn't have time to high school or to other,

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you know, professional schools. And so just like, I'm very lucky, and I just went to the best high school in the county. And I had three years over there.

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Yeah. Do you remember the name of the high school? Yes, it's called Changge First High–First High School. So it's the best–it's the best in the whole county. Yeah, at that time, there are just like six classes.

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And you know, the classes in—when I grew up is like, different from like, class size in the United States. When I was very young, in elementary school, in middle school, there are about like, 60 in one classroom.

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There's just one teacher. You can imagine like, for over sixty boys and girls, very active. And in the high school, the same, and very big class. And–and because we had limited resources at that time. And we had like six classes in one grade for the high

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school. So there's about like, about 400, you know, students in one grade, yeah. Wow. That sounds so different from what I'm used to over here. Kind of transitioning

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away from school, but to more of like your child life, do you have any particularly special or meaningful memories that otherwise would not have been made if you did not live where you did? You mean, before I went to the college?

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Or in my hometown? Yeah, just. Yeah, like, your childhood, you said you grew up kind of in the rural area, right? Are there special memories and things like that that you might have?

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Well. Yeah, I even—I didn't memorize that until you asked me. And such a memory I can remember was, like, when I was like, in the elementary school. At that time, my grandpa just like raised a–a cattle.

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Like, a cattle for not to make meat, but just like to receive and sell it to make money, you know, to just like, try to make more money. And, as a student, especially, like, in

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the—after I came back from school, and in summer holidays, and I had to go to the field, you know, to—because at that time, it's just like, all the–all the fields, all the crops are belong to the families.

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They're not belonging to the public at that time. So just like I went to my field, my parent’s field and my family’s field, and just like, get the grass. Just like, it's like, one stone for–for two birds.

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And one reason is, like, when I pull out the grass, that's like weeds, and it's better for the crops. And the other reason is like I can get food for–for the cattle. So almost every day, in the late afternoon, I just like, I went to the

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field and went to the field with my brother, with my older brother, just like every day, it's my daily work. And also, very special is like, I—you know, in addition to the–to the

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schoolwork, definitely, I need to help my parents. And especially, like, when you harvest, when you need to harvest the wheat, you know, in summer, it's just like these days, in the early–early June.

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Like it's time to harvest the wheat. And it's just like, there's very short window to harvest the—all–all the crops. So even just like when I was like seven or eight, I still—I can help.

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Even just like—I remember, I can help like, after my–my grandma just cook the lunch, or just like, bring—I just brought snack to the field. Maybe just like, almost like 1000 meters

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or just like within the village, not so far away. But I can deliver the food and you know, to the–to the elders. Yeah. To parents and to others. Yeah. That's very interesting.

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Kind of segueing in, do you have any special values or lessons that your parents emphasized during your upbringing? Can you say it again? Yeah, sorry. Do you have any special values or lessons that your parents emphasized in

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your up-upbringing? Oh, yeah, definitely. You know, parents are the first teachers, right? Just like we stay with a family, you

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know, all day long and every day and in addition to the school education. Just like, I feel my original family, what I received from my family is very precious. It's very valuable, priceless.

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Like, as a boy, and you need to take your responsibility, and you need to be honest, and you need to work hard to, like–like, everything is not for granted, and you need to work hard and for your future.

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That is, I think part of my personality, just like, made me what I—who I am right now, just a part of my personalities. Yeah. I see.

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And you also mentioned that you spent a lot of time with your brothers or brother. Can you can elaborate how your relationship was with your siblings, when you were a child, and how that might have changed

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or stayed the same now that you're older? Well, just like, you know, when you were like, when I was a boy, you know, just like three siblings. Sometimes it's like pretty normal, you know, when we are young, just like you fight each other.

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And definitely as like a middle one, and you learn, I learned from my older brother. And I need to somehow to help my younger brother. And one–one thing I can remember is like, when I was

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like in the third or four-fourth grade, and in the late summer, it's time for the new school year to enroll new students. And even at that time, I can't remember why, but just like, my parents didn't notice this.

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I just like—it's me and brought my younger brother to the school and just registered for–for him. And that is just like, and for–for his first year, you know, in the elementary school. That's just, I was–I was like, in third or fourth grade.

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And so just like, definitely, well, we, like, we are a family. We're not just like, not so—nowadays, like a family, kids have so many activities.

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Just the most time, we stayed together and worked together, you know, and even to the–to the field. And—but later on, just the when I left the school, when I just like came to, you know,

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I left my hometown, and to the capital of my province and to Shanghai later on, just now I just, I mean, you know, they still definitely are my brothers. And we have different

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professionals, different families, but just like, that's something you cannot, you know, it's–it's–it's not like, only friendship. It's from blood. Yeah. That's a really good way to describe it.

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Are your siblings here in America or are they still back home in China? Only my core family now is in the Unite-United States. Yeah. And my siblings—and my older brother is a

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teacher in an ele-elementary school in my county. And my younger brother, it's like, works in the local government. Yeah. Okay, I see. And this leads us to our next, I guess, set of questions about immigration.

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I know that you moved to Colorado first in the United States. Could you kind of speak more about that experience, about why you decided to move here and what it was like? Well, before just so we talk about this, I think I would like to talk about like my

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early career. Like my early professional, because that's changed a lot. And my way, it's like, not typical way for other immigrations. And, you know, after I graduated from high school, I went to a

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medical university in my province, in Henan Province. And that is the best medical university in that state, you know, in the province. And I stayed five—I learned like five years and—to earn my degree, which is

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medical technology. And after that, and I start work in the hospital in Zhengzhou, which is capital of the–of the province. It's the largest city in the province.

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And it's like, recognized as the best city in the province also. So I-I at that time, I felt like, okay, and that is my, you know, I will just keep this

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job. And this is like, I–I would raise my family, you know, and then just, like, have a happy life and just that. But after several years of working, I've—I feel like, I-I just like start to think about my future.

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At that time I was married and so I was thinking like, "Oh, do I need to just like stay in this hospital for my whole life?" And because that hospital is like kind of very small hospital, and there's no early like—no

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many opportunities for my career. So I decided to–to go out to—or place like, out to the world, like outside world. So just like, with the

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support from my wife, actually, because at that time, I started having my older son. And so I just like, I applied the college—the graduate school of Shanghai.

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At that time, it's called Shanghai Second Medical University, and then it's just integrated into Shanghai Jiao Tong University. And it's one of the best medical university in China. So I

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had stayed and studied there for six years, and to earn my master's–master's–master’s degree and PhD. And so I earned my PhD in medical microbiology.

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And after I earned that, it's like, definitely I had more opportunities to find a better job in China, including I can find, like, kind of like dream job in Zhengzhou, and also a very good job in Shanghai. But just at that time, I was thinking like, well, I now, I

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earned my PhD. So, you know, at that time, I know, U-United States has the best technology in the world. And so I already, just at that time, just want to see what the outside world is.

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So I told my idea to my supervisor, and he just supported me very much. He just told me like, "Oh, after two years, you can come back and you can find like a better job, a better offer, you know, in

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Shanghai." So that's the reason actually, and I applied the post-doc job in the United States. And very interesting, is that like all the labs applied, were like tuberculosis

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lab. And at that time, because my major was medical microbiology. And I'm very—but just like, I didn't do any, like, investigate any TB work in China. But just like, because TB is like a heavy burden in China and worldwide and

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nowadays, and at that time, also, for many years. And so just like, I feel, there's more very interesting things I can do, I can contribute in this area. So I applied all

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the labs in the TB lab. So that's like, I very glad that like, I got an offer from Colorado. That was Colorado State University. That's the reason I just like flew from China,

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from Shanghai, to Colorado with my family. Yes. Okay, do—kind of—sorry to interrupt, but could you kind of mention, like, what kind of job you first worked in Shanghai? I know, you said medical microbiology, but what specifically did

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you do? Oh, you mean the research work? Sorry, could you repeat that? You mean the research work, right? When I was in graduate school?

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Well, that is very, you know, very uncommon disease that is called leptospirosis. So it's like the, the bug, the bacteria is called Leptospira because

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it's like spiral. Is like, not like a germ. It's like a round, a straight, that is like-like, a–a–a spiral or–or spin, you

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know, and it's a very special shape. So the disease is like, actually, it's like zoonosis, which means the cattles, the animals and human beings can just suffer from the same pathogen.

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And it can—and people, human beings, can be infected from the animal’s, you know, materials. And so that's–that's where—what I did and in Shanghai, but just like, because it's—one reason is like, this is not very common

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pathogen, and the TB definitely is more important than this. And also this my personal interest. I know many people suffered from TB in my hometown, and in my–in my country.

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So just at that time, I really wanted to just like, to learn something new in the United States in TB area. Yeah. I see.

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So was your interest always in the research direction of like biology? Or did you ever have any thoughts about any other careers you might have been interested during your undergraduate and graduate

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experience? Well, at that time, looks like, you know, traditionally I was recognized as like a very good student. You know, almost all straight A's. And very good at like, you know, just like study.

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So and–and also, what I learned, this also I think just like, influenced from the family. If you learn something, you just keep doing it right? It's just like, it's

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not good for you to change directions. And once you have your major, why you just like, don't you keep on that way and you just change it to a new area like not a comfort zone? It's also maybe my weakness.

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It's like, that is not my comfort zone and in this area I have expertise and knowledge and experience. So just, I would like to get a deeper and to develop my skills in this area.

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Yeah, so I really didn't think about like, other opportunities at that time. Yeah. I see. About your college, both undergraduate and graduate experience in general, are there any special

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defining points you think you had that helped you realize, like, this is the direction I want to go in? Sorry, that cut out. Well, sometimes, you know, at that time, to be honest, like when I applied

00:21:15.080 - 00:21:24.100

to, you know, the undergraduate—the college as an undergraduate student, and it was like a medical university. But at that time,

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because my parents are—were all farmers and nobody knows, at that time, nobody knew, like, oh, which major you need to choose. I just like, I know, I'm interested in the medicine. And just, you know, in the medical school.

00:21:38.430 - 00:21:54.560

And there's not so many majors, but still majors. And, at that time, like still, most of college students, you know, the policy at that time is like, you cannot find a job, by your—by

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yourself. Like you will—like the government will give you a job. And well, just like the government system will find a job for you. So, it's like, I was told at

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that time, as like a teenager, when I was 18, I knew nothing about the job market. And the–the—my families and relatives, my families, and told me, "Oh, if you learn like, your major is like in the clinical medicine, it will be

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very hard to find a job or to—very hard to find a decent job." And so just like, oh, this, like, the medical technology was a new major in the university. So it has like more opportunities for graduate students like to

00:22:46.190 - 00:22:59.300

find–find job—new job, is like a new market. You know, it's new opportunities. So I just like, okay, and that might be good. But later on I realized, well, I'm maybe—I'm not

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in—so interested in that. But just like for my personality it's like, "Okay, this is my responsibility. I need to do this, I need to work in this area." That's—major reason is like, I didn't think about "Oh, I-I might need to change like

00:23:13.910 - 00:23:28.060

something, even I need to learn from the beginning." Yeah. Thank you. Kind of guiding back to your postdoctoral experience. What was it like, in general, first coming

00:23:28.060 - 00:23:43.910

to America? Did your family come with you? Yes, at that time, I just had one son. That's probably the reason I applied the opportunity in the United States. So—because like when I–when I was in graduate sch—gra-graduate

00:23:45.150 - 00:24:03.160

school, and I was like, living in Shanghai alone and the rest of my family in Zhengzhou city. So in this way, just like, we can just like live together. Yeah. Were there any specific challenges you recall,

00:24:03.660 - 00:24:18.490

both for your family and you as an individual? You mean, when I—when we came to the United States in the beginning? Well, actually, there—what I can recall is like not so many challenges,

00:24:19.440 - 00:24:33.850

still there a lot of like cultural shocks. There's no many challenge-challenges because a big reason is like, I feel I was very lucky. And even before I arrived at Denver

00:24:33.850 - 00:24:46.300

Airport, I connected with a local resource in Colorado, in Fort Collins, the city. And the local church just answered my request.

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And they sent a brother, a gentlemen to pick us up at the airport, to pick up our family. And he had like a van, a minivan, to pick our four—family with so many luggage, you know.

00:25:01.470 - 00:25:16.370

And then since then, I just like started to, you know, contact with the local church and American families and in the English church. And

00:25:16.370 - 00:25:30.900

so just like for me, even just like everything was new, right? It's like, everything was different. And the work is-was challenging, but just like, there's no—I-I didn’t feel like so many challenges.

00:25:31.370 - 00:25:46.110

I feel like the reason is because whenever I had a problem, and I can always find help from my Chinese community, from the American friends, yeah. I see.

00:25:47.360 - 00:26:03.800

So you were involved with church, you said, in Colorado? Could you talk about, of course, the church and maybe some other organizations or groups that you were involved with while you were in

00:26:03.800 - 00:26:19.730

Colorado? Yes and I will—I am very happy to share that experience. And I said it just like, when I arrived, even before I arrived and started, before we–we met each other, you know, they started to help us and since—so just like, the

00:26:19.730 - 00:26:35.050

first day and the second day when we arrived, and we just like, we had a dinner, and in the others'–others' home. And just like the other family helped us to go shopping on the next day.

00:26:35.050 - 00:26:50.370

So just like, it's very normal for us, like, "Oh, they are so nice and, just like, they want to help us. They want to be our friends." So just like, that-that's the beginning of like, we started to contact with, like, local church

00:26:50.450 - 00:27:07.400

community. And so just after that, and we—my whole family just like went to the church almost every Sunday. And also the other organization was ISI, International Students Incorporation.

00:27:08.160 - 00:27:22.710

That is like organization to help international students and scholars and to help them to study like English. To–to be more familiar with American culture, and to adapt to the new

00:27:22.710 - 00:27:38.180

environment. And I had a very good relationship with staff in that small city. And so just like sometimes I went to American church, and also I just like studied English, like the ISI staff and volunteers.

00:27:38.290 - 00:27:46.770

And they just like taught English every week. Every–every—I remember, it was like every Tuesday evening. And it's like, very small.

00:27:46.770 - 00:27:59.100

It's like one teacher with two or three students, all adult students from different countries, from South Korea, from China, you know? Yeah. It's very precious.

00:27:59.140 - 00:28:09.970

I really appreciate that help, yeah. Yeah. For sure. I also noted that another association you were involved with, was the Colorado Chinese

00:28:10.210 - 00:28:22.900

Biotech Professional Association. Bio—I'm sorry, what's that? The Colorado Chinese Biotech Professional Association. Oh, sorry. I can't remember that.

00:28:23.160 - 00:28:35.620

Did I mention that? Oh, I think it was on your form. But I just wrote that down. Yeah, well, we can just move on. Apart from the church, are there any other—and ISI—are there any other

00:28:36.150 - 00:28:50.520

organizations or groups or anything community-related that you want to speak about? Well, these are like two very good, like, communities, and I-I started, and from of that—and I had very

00:28:50.870 - 00:29:06.570

good—I would like to share like two families' friendship. And that's like, one's like–like Selva and Lawson—and his last name is Lawson. Clyde–Clyde Lawson and Selva.

00:29:06.870 - 00:29:26.130

And they were 70s at that time, when we started to connect in the first year, the first several years. And we were invited to their family, you know, for any big festivals, big events, like New Year's holiday,

00:29:26.180 - 00:29:41.180

Christmas, even Thanksgiving. Or, just like, many holidays, and we stayed together and they opened their house for international students also, for every week, just like study, like

00:29:41.180 - 00:29:53.750

study bible. Yes. And the other family is like younger but they were like about 60s. And we just like—after we

00:29:54.040 - 00:30:08.050

started to connect, we developed like—not only they help us, like they are native speakers. We are foreigners. We are new. We–we need to learn a lot from them.

00:30:08.800 - 00:30:20.940

But also it's like a friendship. It's like for the second family, you know, we just invited them. That's just like the story after that.

00:30:20.990 - 00:30:37.190

It's like we—when we moved to Maryland and even Houston and they flew from Colorado to visit us. Yeah. I see. So kind of transitioning from that into Houston, what made you—what brought you

00:30:37.190 - 00:30:53.820

to Houston? Well, that's just because of a job offer, and to get this offer there’s a long story, like, I—there's like, you know, my history is like from Colorado.

00:30:54.200 - 00:31:07.530

Houston, like Texas, is the third state and I have lived. And the second state is Maryland. It's close to DC area. So that's like how I changed my career.

00:31:09.670 - 00:31:28.780

So long story short, it's like I—after I graduated from a National Biosafety and Bio-containment Training Program, or NBBTP, two years study—or fellowship, and

00:31:29.110 - 00:31:39.370

I found the job, I had to find a job after graduation. So I found that the only offer was in Houston and Houston Methodist. Yeah, that's why I came here.

00:31:39.790 - 00:31:52.820

Yeah. Did you do the program in Maryland? Yes, yes. That's a program actually on the NIH campus. It's within the NIH, National Institutes of Health. Oh, okay, yeah.

00:31:52.860 - 00:32:06.040

They're the people that fund all the research and stuff right? Oh, yes, yes. Every year, you know, NIH is like the largest biomedical research institute. And also it's–it's a

00:32:06.040 - 00:32:17.900

federal government agency. And NIH has like, about $30 billion every year to distribute to the United States and also even some other countries in the world.

00:32:18.600 - 00:32:32.990

And so almost–almost every scientist in the United States, they need to—especially in the biomedical area. And they just like, apply the funding from NIH. Yeah. I see.

00:32:33.050 - 00:32:46.380

For chronological purposes, do you mind recounting, like, what years you moved from Shanghai to Colorado? And then from Colorado to Maryland? Sure, yeah, yeah, yeah. I was like—it was in 2007,

00:32:48.380 - 00:32:59.020

I moved from Shanghai to Colorado. And I had lived in Colorado for seven years. It was in the end of 2014, I

00:32:59.340 - 00:33:15.310

moved from Colorado to Maryland to start my fellowship at NIH. Yeah. I see. And you said that was sort of when your career shifted, right, in Maryland? When you decided you kind

00:33:15.310 - 00:33:27.880

of wanted to do something a little bit different. It's not something I can decide, actually. It's just like, out of my plan. It's definitely, it’s like, something very

00:33:27.880 - 00:33:44.050

amazingly happened. And when I was like, looking for my career, looking for my future, you know, at Colorado, just like in–in—at Colorado State University, I was like a post-doc,

00:33:44.050 - 00:33:56.680

and then a research scientist and working in the TB area. So I saw at that time like, because TB is definitely very important, the pathogen is a worldwide issue, you know, health issue, scientific issue.

00:33:56.680 - 00:34:13.150

So just like it's very important, and I'm just like, I can contribute to this area. But still, I was thinking like, well, just like, well, I—like where’s my future? I was thinking and it’s–it's very

00:34:13.150 - 00:34:28.740

hard because like, at that time, if you don't have like green card and you just like when you hold a visa, no matter it's a J1 or H1, it's still like if–if you, if you don't have a green card, it's very hard to find a job in other area.

00:34:28.830 - 00:34:47.620

Like you had to work in the lab in the university. So, very beautiful thing was like, I couldn't find that opportunity without an incident in the lab.

00:34:49.340 - 00:34:59.680

So I made a mis—to be honest, like, I made a mistake. And because like I worked in the TB lab, right? The TB lab, is like, has to be done in biosafety level

00:34:59.910 - 00:35:11.750

three lab. It's called BSL3. So BSL3 and everyone—every researcher needs to get like a very comprehensive training. So you–you—so you have that

00:35:12.240 - 00:35:21.780

opportunity to work inside. And so at that time, just, that I made a mistake, so the university needed to investigate that incident.

00:35:22.210 - 00:35:37.700

And then I had time to know more biosafety professionals, including the Biosafety Director of Colorado State University at that time. Because like—as, like, as a post-doc or researcher,

00:35:38.930 - 00:35:50.440

you had no chance to connect with that kind of level, you know, of like, professional in biosafety area. Like you just, like, accept the

00:35:50.440 - 00:36:03.430

training from the other staff in the team. But just like, very few chance to touch base with Director of Biosafety, yeah. So I just like,

00:36:05.880 - 00:36:19.670

because like he was in the committee, you know, in the team to investigate, like, why this happened, and what they can learn from this to avoid, like, to avoid, like future occurring. So I had a chance to

00:36:20.070 - 00:36:33.290

know about not only about him, but also the others, like biosafety professionals in the team. And after that, I felt like, wow, this might be something.

00:36:33.940 - 00:36:49.420

Like I-I—at that time, just like, I had very, like my mind, this looks like weird, you know, thinking like, I feel this area is like, maybe I can do something in this area.

00:36:50.240 - 00:37:02.460

So like–like, I'm not saying like, I'm good at this, but maybe my personality, my–my experience. Like, what if I can find a job in this area because I feel they are very helpful.

00:37:02.910 - 00:37:21.160

They try to help you, not just to—not to punish you, because your mistake. They want to find the reason, like to increase, to improve. And for everyone's safety, you know, in the lab. So just like, "Oh, this is very interesting career." At that time,

00:37:21.160 - 00:37:32.010

because like, I just received the training, you know, from safety professionals in the team. I never ever thought about that. But after the incident, after the

00:37:32.230 - 00:37:48.490

investigation, you know, I just start to think about this. Then, I just talked to the professionals, including the director. And they said, "Yeah, that's—you can try, you can try, that's like, this is different area.

00:37:48.960 - 00:38:03.760

And so you can try this." And so just like, I was introduced the opportunity of NBBTP, the National Biosafety and Bio-containment Training Program at NIH. Yeah. That’s how that happened.

00:38:04.360 - 00:38:17.840

It's a long story, sorry. It's great. Thank you so much. This is just a question that I suddenly thought of, but I remember you said the reason you left Shanghai was because you wanted to return for better job

00:38:17.840 - 00:38:29.610

opportunities. Did you just decide not to do that? Well, to be honest, it's true. It's true. Just like when I came to United States and 14 years ago, my

00:38:29.610 - 00:38:45.900

plan was just like, okay, I just like two years study, I just learned more–more–more technologies in the United States lab. Then I can apply what I have learned to the lab. I might have my own lab as a–as a professor, you know, to–to

00:38:46.450 - 00:39:01.110

establish my lab in TB area. The major reason is when my first, you know, J1 visa, was going to expire. And I

00:39:01.110 - 00:39:16.400

find my wife was pregnant. And we will have our second kid. They—later on, we know that’s a–that's a boy. And so just like, I-I found, like, if I

00:39:16.400 - 00:39:29.290

just returned back to China, and the original plan, that's just after my son was born. So I told my supervisor, to ask her like, "Oh, like, oh my wife was pregnant.

00:39:29.340 - 00:39:45.550

And could you just like extend my visa so I can stay here longer, just like when he is like, you know, bigger so we can go back." She was very excited. You know, just like, “Oh, I'm very glad to extend your visa!” Because I-I did

00:39:45.550 - 00:39:59.700

very great—a very good job in–in her lab. She just extended me like four years, three or four years visa, so I can just like stay here longer. And even at that time, I didn't plan to stay here long.

00:40:00.020 - 00:40:15.180

Like–like as a permanent resident or as American, but just like, later on, I don't know when exactly I found like my—I change my, you know, my plan. I don't know that critical

00:40:15.180 - 00:40:29.950

point. I can't remember if there's any critical point, but I feel, well, that might be good for my whole family, not only for myself. Also may be good for my two boys, you know, for their education and for their–for

00:40:30.270 - 00:40:40.950

their future. Yeah. I see. And then you ended up in Houston. Yes. Thanks for–for asking me, yes, very good question. Yeah. Yeah.

00:40:40.950 - 00:40:52.450

So it's kind of going more into Houston now. I know you work at Houston Methodist. Do you want to talk a little bit more about your position as the Biosafety Officer and all of that?

00:40:52.450 - 00:41:05.850

Yes. And so my current role is like a Biosafety Officer. So just like, you know, my experience was like, I was a researcher in a TB lab. Just how can researchers just play a role as Biosafety

00:41:06.370 - 00:41:20.190

Officer. So that very important transition was like in the fellowship. So in—just like to explain this, I think just—I would like to, like, briefly

00:41:20.260 - 00:41:34.780

introduce this fellowship, because it's very unique. It's very unique. And this is like a fellowship—and within NIH, and it is like two years training program and for Americans. Not for foreigners.

00:41:34.780 - 00:41:49.770

So you need to have—at least you need to have like—you–you are a native speaker or you are—you have, like, a green card. So that's like, I—when I applied the biosafety—when I applied this fellowship, I

00:41:49.770 - 00:42:00.110

didn't have a green card. And I-I just like received my green card in about three months. It's very–very fast. It's like, wow. It's like when I share this story to

00:42:00.290 - 00:42:11.870

others, it's like wow. It's like, it's–it's–it's like, amazing. It's amazing, like, so I had opportunity to be that—in that training program.

00:42:12.010 - 00:42:25.320

So that training program is like to prepare the top biosafety professionals in the country with like, high standard. Like, prepare biosafety professionals with high standard and

00:42:25.320 - 00:42:42.110

to meet the challenge of like the—in the biomedical lab needs in the United States. So, like, to be a biosafety professional, and you need to have knowledge, expertise, definitely, in the microbiology area, right?

00:42:42.110 - 00:42:53.990

You need to understand the science. And that's, but that is not enough. And you need to understand the people, you need to understand the policy. So you need to practice these policies, and how to communicate with people.

00:42:54.350 - 00:43:06.510

So that's two years just I learned a lot like in soft skills, and how to—because like, as a scientist, like, the mindset is different. Like, okay, I can only focus on this research area.

00:43:06.600 - 00:43:22.410

Just like, I find references, just generate ideas from my own mind. And so just work on my bench in my lab, to–to identify or to identify the—my supervisor's idea or my idea.

00:43:24.110 - 00:43:35.560

And—but just as a biosafety professional, it's a very different mindset. So the two years NBBTP life change-changed me. So now, I'm the

00:43:35.770 - 00:43:45.710

Biosafety Officer. My role is to make sure all the researchers in the lab and they work safely. And it's–it's like,

00:43:46.460 - 00:44:02.880

it's—Biosafety Officer is like, I—it's like a joke I-I-I told in a training, you know, to–to researchers in my institute. I'm Biosafety Officer, I'm not police officer. So like, I don't have a gun with me.

00:44:03.220 - 00:44:16.170

I just like—I have knowledge and exp-expertise, and passion. So my role is like to help researchers understand what the risks and they have. Even just like, it's just like myself.

00:44:16.270 - 00:44:29.720

When I worked in lab, I didn't realize "Oh, that's–that's like hazards at work always." I know there’s—they're hazards. But I just like, I know what I–what I need to do, but just a lot of things I still need to understand.

00:44:30.090 - 00:44:47.070

So now my role is like to help them understand the risk and how to protect themselves, and how to regulate, you know, the policies and in accordance with government regulations. Yeah, just like this. Training, protocol review,

00:44:48.710 - 00:45:02.870

connect with different staff like researchers, lab managers, scientists, PI's, directors, whatever, and also like engineers, even, you know. You need to—I need to work with engineers like to

00:45:03.590 - 00:45:18.800

adjust the–the–the lab, you know, the—it’s called HVAC. You know, to–to–to adjust to the volume, you know, the-all the equipment management.

00:45:18.800 - 00:45:30.660

It's just a lot of things. Yeah. I see. Now to take a step back and kind of ask a general question, kind of related to your journey. Do you

00:45:30.710 - 00:45:47.880

think there is a glass ceiling for Asian Americans in this field of research and STEM that you are so deeply immersed in? Glass ceiling, you know, it's very common topic

00:45:49.190 - 00:46:05.140

in—from Asian immigrations. And for my—based on my very limited experience in United States, you know, to be honest, like, s-sometimes,

00:46:06.260 - 00:46:22.990

I didn't feel it's glass ceiling because I'm an Asian immigrant, because I'm from other countries. It's more like, for me, it's like, you know, for

00:46:22.990 - 00:46:39.320

example, when I worked in the lab, as a post-doc, and then research scientist. That's an area, like career, very competitive. So even just like for others, like native speakers, it's hard for them to promote to, like, Assistant

00:46:39.940 - 00:46:54.490

Professor level. So like, okay, it's like, the glass ceiling for me? I-I don't think so. For me, just like as Biosafety Officer, you know, at Houston Methodist, I feel very lucky. Just like, I'm an Asian.

00:46:54.970 - 00:47:11.840

I am, like, the only Asian. And–and in my field, by the way, in my field, only, like up to 10 professionals are from China, originally, you know. Most, majority of them are like native speakers,

00:47:13.650 - 00:47:27.960

Western people, you know, black and white and, and just like very small percentage, are like, from Asia-Asian area, like including the Indians, and Vietnamese, but just like very, very small percentage.

00:47:28.180 - 00:47:44.460

Yeah. I-I mean, just like I–I feel, in my area at least like, I didn't feel that glass ceiling. But I know, I know, just like, in my organization, there’s still the Asian staff is

00:47:44.750 - 00:47:54.930

underrepresented. It's like in accordance to this population. Yeah. I understand that issue. Yeah. I see.

00:47:55.960 - 00:48:12.780

This is also a good question that can kind of go and tie in with that. How do you feel about the recent Asian hate crimes that are going around and the movement that has risen in response to that? Oh, yes, and this is very,

00:48:14.270 - 00:48:28.430

you know, sev-severe issue. And as you just might don't know, and in addition to my official job, I am also the chair of the Houston Methodist Asian Heritage ERG, Asian Heritage Employee

00:48:28.430 - 00:48:49.510

Resource Group. And that's just why I'm very just like, interested in this topic, since end of last year. And–and–and so, I feel this definitely is like, a–a social issue, it’s not only related to the pandemic, but

00:48:49.510 - 00:49:04.940

it's within the pandemic, we see, unfortunately, we see some like tragedies around the country. The shootings, the hate crime. And so, in the, in this

00:49:05.360 - 00:49:22.780

March, and I just wrote my reflection on the Asian, you know, anti-Asian heri—the crime, and that reflection was included in Houston Methodist official statement regarding this issue.

00:49:24.810 - 00:49:42.300

After that was released, published to the whole system, I heard one colleague, and—who is–who is a lady from Vietnam. And she told me, "Hong, this is such an amazing

00:49:43.460 - 00:49:59.300

work you have done to, you know, show what you thought about this very important issue." Because like she feels sometimes, she feels like not secure. And when, just like my

00:50:00.240 - 00:50:15.320

reflection was included in the official statement, even I feel like I did like nothing. But just the—for her is like, and the community, and she feels like our voice–our voice, our heart,

00:50:15.400 - 00:50:27.550

you know, from the community, from the organization. And it's very important for them, and to feel it's like the organization from the higher level, they recognize this issue.

00:50:27.600 - 00:50:39.600

They take this very seriously. Yeah. That's perfect, because it kind of leads into my next question. How would you describe the Asian American community here in Houston?

00:50:42.280 - 00:50:56.260

You mean, the community of like the organization, we have? The Asian Heritage? Or in general, the community, Asian community in—with Houston Methodist? I was going to ask just the general Asian community, I guess around your workplace, but

00:50:56.260 - 00:51:08.560

also maybe around your home or other places in Houston. Yeah. Okay. And you know, just like Houston is like such a special city. You know, I didn't realize this before

00:51:08.560 - 00:51:23.110

I moved to here. Like one—even just like, during the interview, my supervisor told me, "Houston is like different from other cities, any other city in Texas. It's more like international city.

00:51:23.160 - 00:51:35.590

It's not Texas city." So I just like, more and more I real-realize "Oh, that is so true." You know, when you just like every day, you meet like different people from like, different areas.

00:51:35.590 - 00:51:48.610

Like it’s said, like, about 25% of Houston people, they were born outside of the state. So so many people are immigrations, like from other states, from other countries. And this is true in, you

00:51:48.610 - 00:52:04.190

know, the Houston Methodist is within the Texas Medical Center, one of the, like, the largest medical centers in the world. And so many like employees from Asia, like Asian employees, everyday, I can see Asian faces, like

00:52:04.950 - 00:52:17.570

accents, you know, from Europe, from Asia. I can feel like even from like, for white person, I can feel they are not like native speakers because they are from Europe. They are first generation and like us.

00:52:17.920 - 00:52:28.300

And so just like it's very—there's like a large of population in Methodist in medical-medical center. Like they are, they're first

00:52:28.350 - 00:52:42.280

generation or second generation. We have the same Asian faces, like–like I feel, I don't know, the exact number. But I know like, from my observation, like Research Institute.

00:52:42.390 - 00:52:57.160

Many researchers, many scientists, like they are Asians. Like Indians, Chinese, and Vietnamese. They from like South Korea or even just like Philippine, from like countries in Southeast.

00:52:57.620 - 00:53:12.660

Yeah. I see, so like a melting pot. Yeah, so to kind of double back on the Houston, the Houston Methodist Asian Heritage ERG. I know that you're a founding chair.

00:53:13.070 - 00:53:26.420

Could you talk about some of your favorite events that you may have organized? Ah yes. And the—yes, I'm the founding chair and it is like established, like, in this February–February and,

00:53:26.520 - 00:53:42.630

just like, we started work to formalize, to establish this organization, since like, end of last year. So it's like not easy because the pandemic, we had to, like us, just to meet virtually. So, we were–we were not able to make like

00:53:42.700 - 00:54:00.820

on-site meeting. So just like, we have like about 13 or 14 founding members and we meet so just like to establ—to establish this organization. So after like we made this, the first like very big event

00:54:00.850 - 00:54:12.750

for us was to celebrate Lunar–Lunar New Year, Chinese New Year. And this is like celebration for open to the public. And that event attracted more than 200 employees.

00:54:14.500 - 00:54:32.360

It's a big event, just like even from the leadership of the Research Institute. And also we had like traditional Chinese, like the Spring Festival decorations in the hall. So just like everyone see "Wow, it's a festival for Asians.

00:54:32.360 - 00:54:50.590

It's festival for Chinese." And also just like we—not only we distributed the, you know, the food, the trad-traditional food, but also that's like we—it's a way for us like to let them know, we have our own ERG group.

00:54:51.090 - 00:55:06.010

And this like community, we can just like deliver our own voice to the system, to an organization, and to address any concerns from the community to help the–the, you know, the

00:55:06.010 - 00:55:20.100

community within the Asian heritage. Yeah. I see. That's pretty–that's pretty cool. Sort of switching gears to more about some other aspects of your life, I

00:55:20.100 - 00:55:34.910

know that you seem to have a relationship with religion. Forgive me if I know incorrectly, but I think you were involved with the Fort Bend Community Church. Do you want to speak about your

00:55:34.910 - 00:55:50.050

experience about that? Okay, and, you know, just like, I'm a Christian, and I was baptized and when I was in Colorado. So just like, keep practicing my faith.

00:55:50.490 - 00:56:03.810

And no matter I was in Colorado, in Maryland, and in Houston area, and–and the Houston like, this church is like, different from other churches. My experience is like, this is like, everything is

00:56:03.930 - 00:56:14.400

bigger in Texas, right? And this church is–is the one example. So just like, this church is very big, and with more than 1600, I think,

00:56:15.450 - 00:56:29.720

congression. So just like, a very good resource, and we can have, and it's very big. So just like we—like in the—we have activities, more like on a weekly basis, like through the small group.

00:56:30.170 - 00:56:50.320

So in the small group, we have like about 10 families, and we had, before the pandemic, just like, we met every week, had discussion to develop, you know, our faith, and to pray and to help each other, you know?

00:56:50.680 - 00:57:06.660

But just like, during pandemic, just that we had to meet virtually. And so just like, it's a great church, and still have a lot of challenges, you know. It's–it's–it's so big, and so many needs, and

00:57:06.660 - 00:57:18.320

within the group, within the church. But just like, for me, my experience, like, "Oh, yes, it's–it’s good for me to find my value, you know, and as a Christian."

00:57:19.590 - 00:57:35.660

And... also like–like, I-I—I’m the-one of the seventh—now it's seventh grade, last year was sixth grade, seventh grade teachers, Sunday school teachers and worked with others, to help the

00:57:35.660 - 00:57:52.920

next generation to grow up. This is just like, one of my—I find my values, like, in the church, like, we as like adults, as parents, it's like my mission to just like, grow up with these wonderful preteens and teens.

00:57:53.420 - 00:58:08.430

And during the time they grow up, the critical years for them. So I just like stay with them. And I just like, we–we–we just like, you know, we grow up together. Yeah. Yeah, that sounds really wonderful.

00:58:10.480 - 00:58:27.210

I guess it kind of leads into me asking how you would identify yourself as an individual? Coming from, you know, some challenges you have faced, all the moving you did, and obviously, the values that you have kind of come to embrace?

00:58:29.210 - 00:58:44.800

Can you just say it again? Yeah, yeah. Basically, I'm asking like, how do you identify yourself as an individual and someone who overcame challenges and kind of embraced the values you do today? Well, this is very big question.

00:58:46.330 - 00:59:04.670

Yeah. Myself, like, you know, when I just like, look back, I—when I look back, like–like I didn't realize, as a boy who grew up in the countryside, you know, in China, now have–have

00:59:05.290 - 00:59:18.530

the opportunity to work in the States. And no matter just like, what my nationality is, the first thing is like, "Okay, I'm a man. I need to be responsible for myself, for my family.

00:59:19.660 - 00:59:31.360

And also, I'm a Christian." And just like, I'm an Asian, but just like my, you know, I-I identify myself as like a professional. And also I'm a father.

00:59:32.150 - 00:59:48.780

And–and also just like, I-I can recognize me as like, I opened my mind to other communities. Like for example, like–like, some I know, some of the residents in my neighborhood, they would like to

00:59:49.390 - 01:00:05.580

choose like, dentists or doctors, and from the same area, like oh, from maybe China, from Asia, you know, they feel more comfortable. But for me, it's like doesn't matter. I just choose like—I just like find like Google or just

01:00:05.580 - 01:00:18.960

like if the doctor accepts my insurance, no matter where–where he or she is from, and it's very convenient for me, it's in my neighborhood, I'll choose that doctor to my doctor, or dentist, my dentist.

01:00:19.060 - 01:00:33.760

It doesn't matter like that doctor, dentist, like, where's he or she's from? So I mean, it's like, we live in an international area in Houston. So I feel like the nationality, maybe you're

01:00:33.960 - 01:00:51.180

like American, and the face tells you, you're from Asia. But just like, we are all human beings, and with respect, with responsibility, and with values in our heart, you know, and to identify who we are.

01:00:52.100 - 01:01:04.090

That's more important, yeah. Yeah. That was a long answer, thank you. Yeah, I think like, apart from that, I covered a lot of your life in this

01:01:04.200 - 01:01:18.720

single hour. But do you have anything else you would want to talk about, such as maybe specific things, memories, experiences that you might have left out? First off, and thank you so much.

01:01:18.790 - 01:01:33.950

And thank you very much like, for inviting me. And what the HAAA does is great job, you know, and it's very important to record like, such ordinary professional like myself.

01:01:34.010 - 01:01:49.420

I-I'm not just like—I don't recognize myself as like an expert, or professor. I'm just like, a very ordinary, just like, professional. But just like for my story, my journey, you know, from China to

01:01:49.950 - 01:02:06.430

different states, you know, in United States. And just like, this, what your organization having done is very important, to keep record of like how the first generation of Asians, like how they just like immigrate

01:02:07.230 - 01:02:24.150

into a new world in the United States, to make the American Dream true. Yeah. And secondly, I think just like, I would like to end up our interview

01:02:24.150 - 01:02:43.150

or conversation with like, a poem I just wrote several days ago. Can I just share that? Okay, I didn't like—let me find it. And could you allow me to just read it in Chinese

01:02:43.730 - 01:02:58.850

first and then just translate briefly into English? Okay. Okay. Yeah. So this is poem is like

01:03:01.390 - 01:03:18.930

a reflection on my birthday. And my birthday is end of this month. And just like, so I just wrote a poem. The poem said is

01:03:19.030 - 01:03:33.180

like, so many difficulties, and frosts and winds I have experienced. When I—now I'm 49. I look back, and I see how the years pas-passed.

01:03:33.320 - 01:03:49.350

And it's so far away, and from my hometown. And so just like my heart, I wish my

01:03:50.520 - 01:04:05.110

heart can turn to–to wings so I can fly. So I see the whole world, no matter where it is, and two sides the—of the ocean, of

01:04:05.190 - 01:04:15.030

the, you know, Pacific Ocean. And we share the same rainbow. We see the same-same rainbow. Yeah, that's basically meaning of this poem.

01:04:15.570 - 01:04:29.370

Yeah. And thank you so much for having me and really appreciate that. Yeah, that's a beautiful poem. And thank you so much for sharing it with us. Yeah. I will end the interview now, or the recording, at least.

01:04:29.690 - 01:04:29.940

Sure.