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Um, so we’re here today at Chinese Community Center on July 6 at 2 o’clock in the afternoon. Um, we’re here for the Houston Asian American Archive, interviewing Chi—Chi-mei Lin. Uh, my name is Priscilla Li.

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My name is Juno Rettenmier. Um, and we’ll get started with uh, where and when you were born. Okay, um, I was born in a small town by Taipei, Taiwan. And basically I was

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born, grew up there, um, until I came over to the United States, yes. Um, and what was your town, was it…? It’s called Xindian, it’s like a suburban of Taipei City, and Taipei is the capital of Taiwan,

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so, um, it’s like a 30-minutes drive to Taipei City, the downtown part of the city. So at that time, back in the ‘50s, it’s uh, very rural, very countryside, yeah.

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Okay, so how would you describe your childhood and the environment you lived in? I would say it was very um, peaceful, and uh, very simple, okay, because um, I consider myself a uh, countries—a country girl because I remember when

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I first went to Taipei for my high school, I basically needed to learn how to follow the traffic signs, like the green light, red light, you know, the directions because back in the countryside you basically just

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ride your bike or you walk, okay, it’s all country roads so, yeah. I think my childhood, um, it was very, it—I had a very happy childhood because I grew up with three brothers, yeah. I consider myself what,

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you know, a tomboy type girl. So were you the oldest, or like…? I’m in the middle so I have an older brother and I have younger brothers, uh huh. Okay, nice. Um, so was it a very, like, did you know everybody in your neighborhood,

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kind of environment? Absolutely, my dad used to uh, serve in the military, so I grew up in what we call right, right now it’s like a compound. Okay, so the whole street are families, they all, you

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know, are military families, so uh, we have about 50 families in, um, you know, on that same village. And we all know each other and we know the children very well, we…we do a lot of things together, yeah.

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Mhm. Can you describe some of the things that you did together? You know, I always remember uh, growing up in grade school, we have, you know, kinda similar age group kids, and we all said after we finish homework, okay, we’ll gather on the street,

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but the street is like, you know, very safe and uh, um, we all have gardens of our own at that time. So we would do things together like we would play um, badminton together, or we’ll play dodgeball together, um, we would even compete like uh,

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riding bikes, okay. Uh so, these are things I really enjoyed, even as a girl, yeah. I loved to play, uh, with our neighbors’ children, uh,

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after we finished our homework every night. Right. So you said your father was in the military? Mhm. And um, what was his occupation? Well, um, he actually…grew up or going through

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the what we call the civil war time right, so um, my dad uh, at the last year of high school, he basically, um, left home and joined the military. So he went to the military school and uh, graduate

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actually from the uh, academy. So uh, during that time, um, he actually, following the uh, Republic of China, which is Taiwan government, retreating from the communist government.

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So um, my dad actually left his hometown Qingdao, which is in northern part of China, and uh, you know, went to the academy and then um, pretty much joined the war and uh, retreat with

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the government through Hong Kong to Taiwan. So he’s in the army and uh, at one time, um, he also served in the U. S. army. Yeah, during the Korean War, so, um, he didn’t really

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talk too much about that part because I guess the nature of the, you know, the service, um, but we, we do remember that he went to Taiwan after the Korean War.

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Yeah. Okay. Um, and what did your mother do? My mom, um, she actually, uh, worked, I think after he—she finished high school and took some vocational training because she also came to Taiwan, um,

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while the civil war is going on, right. So unfortunately she didn’t get to attend college because her age was just at that, you know, um, moving away from, uh, China when she was finishing high

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school, but when her family and herself moved to Taipei, she was not able to follow the system, which, you know, that college you have to take this entrance exam.

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Um, but she did take some vocational courses, so she worked for—I believe she worked for like a newspaper publisher briefly and then when she got married, uh, she didn’t work.

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She was pretty much take care of us, we have, we have four, okay, all together. And at the certain time when we all grown, she did go back to work as like, you know, a um, uh, a clerk kind of just to kill time, right.

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But most of the time, um, mom stayed home with us, yeah, yeah. So what would you say are like, the kind of principles, uh, did they raise you on, or like how—what kind of examples did you see them as?

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I think for my generation, like, my parents, both of them going through the war and uh, leaving families and relatives behind, and uh, start of their young family in Taiwan with nothing, okay. So I remember my mom always, um, share with

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us how important that is, to be appreciative and to be grateful with what we have and uh, um, and my dad is very generous in heart because um, he basically came to Taiwan by himself.

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So later on, um, he, he got married late because he always hoped that he would be able to go back to Qingdao. But, you know, things didn’t happen that way. Um, so he helped out a lot of his friends and

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uh, um, you know, people that he knew because he really kept a very simple life for a while. So I know he, um, support his friends’ family a lot, so both of my parents have

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very generous in heart, that I know. And my mom especially, uh, reminded us while growing up, like, um, you always need to know, um, when people are successful, when they, you know, reach certain achievement, look behind

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the effort they put in. Don’t just, you know, kind of admire what they have, okay, from the f açade. You always need to, you know, understand, people basically contribute in this a lot to

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reach where they are. So uh, in Chinese we say we need to zhī zú, you know, you need to be content with what you have. Okay, um…my mom’s the one that, that’s a little bit more philosophical while growing up, yeah.

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And my dad always just made sure that because this, the, you know, the, the times, the timing that they grew up and they gone through, they just…he appreciate that we still have a place in Taipei,

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in Taiwan. Um, we still have a country that we can call home, um, so, he’s, he’s very patriotic, let’s put it this way. Um, and did you practice a religon at home growing

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up? I actually, my family is not really uh, practice a religion, but I did grow up in Catholic schools. Um, we have four siblings right, at very young, um, we went to kindergarten, um, uh,

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that was pretty much run by Catholics’ church. Um, so we basically got disciplined by nuns. Yeah. And then of course later on I am a Christian and uh, some of my mom’s

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family side, they are Christian, and some of them later on practiced Buddhism. Yeah. Um, so can you describe your schooling in Taiwan? Um, as I say, you know, I grew up in the countryside so um—however, I did, you know, I

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didn’t miss any schooling, so to speak. I did go to what we call a kindergarten, it’s like a child care center, since I was three. Um, it was very relaxing, and

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just bunch of kids playing together, and of course, you know, um, like I said the nuns always teach us, give us discipline or like, “you should do this,” “you shouldn’t do that,” things like that.

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But um, I have very close friends that live in the same neighborhood, so it’s a very close-knit community. Um, even going through elementary school, I went to a public school, uh, about

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20 minutes away walk from my home, and uh…but up to middle school I went back to Catholic girls’ school. So I actually attended a girls’ school all the way through until college.

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Yeah. Um, and I saw that you’re a part of an alumni association, so that was related to your high school? Right, um, that’s um, in Taiwan we don’t have the mandatory school all the way until

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twelfth grade, so at that time—now they, they do, okay. Um, we have to take a, what we call these, compet—you know, like, competitive entrance exam if we want to go to a public school

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because public school actually is better because it’s free. Ok, um, kids that didn’t really like, you know, to do their homework, they all had to go to private school and their parents have to pay for that tuition.

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So our goal always is to get to a public school and I actually made it to the First Taipei Girls High School, which was ranked number one for high school for girls. And it’s a

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public school and it’s in Taipei City, and I have to take the bus about 40 minutes, you know. And the school start early, and, you know, so I remember I had to go the bus stop pretty early in the morning, and, you know…run to

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the bus stop and get on the bus with a bunch of, uh, students, okay, very cramped bus. Um, and yeah, three years in Taipei, you know, attending high school there. And that’s the alum I joined because um,

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a lot of our friends, okay, after college, um, a lot of us came abroad, okay, to go to advanced study, and um—so locally there is alum from the public school, and we have even teachers in

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her nineties come to our event, yeah. Yeah, it’s about 200 people in that alum. Mhm. Mhm, and so what was your favorite subject in high school? I actually like math a lot.

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Yes, mhm. Did your parents, like, encourage you to go into a specific field when you were applying for colleges? Well, at that time I thought I would go to like, we call uh, the first group, which is engineering. I didn’t because yes, my parents kind—especially

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my dad, kind of influenced me. Um, well, he’s really just, you know, um, like a dad. Uh, he’d always say, “Okay, you are my only girl, okay”, and, you know, like I said, my mom is a tomboy, so he would say,

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“I hope you can go to like, art school, or, you know, study something like liberal arts, um, please don’t go to engineering school,” because I have three brothers, right. Um, so I kind of listened at the

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time, but with, you know, at the same time, I have a, a small group of very uh, good girlfriends, okay, that all went to engineering school. Yeah. So I end up to be the only one that studied hu—

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humanity, yeah, uh huh. So did you go to college in Taiwan? In Taiwan, yeah. Okay, which college is that? I went to what we call Taida, which is the National Taiwan University. Yeah. Um, and what was—so you wanted to stay in Taiwan for your undergraduate

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years? Well, during that time, okay, because post-civil war, okay, Taiwan actually had a martial law. We, at the time, you know, ‘70s, even ‘60s, yeah, students, when you finish college you get,

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you know, you can go abroad for advanced study. But travel is not like as easy as now-a-days. So we actually couldn’t, you know, didn’t think of going abroad because it would be very

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difficult. You can go abroad when you finish college and get admission from an advanced study university. You know, so majority of the uh, students who choose to go abroad, they have to

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finish undergraduate in Taiwan, and then you have to take a TOEFL or a GRE, um, those kinds of tests to get a visa. Mhm. Okay, and what did you major in?

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Uh, in graduate school? Uh, undergraduate. Undergrad, I, I was a dual-degree major. I majored in English and education. Right. Do you remember what, like, your favorite class, or something that stood out

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during your undergraduate years? Undergraduate, you know, when I was an English major, you know, a lot of the courses were more like literature, uh, European literature, English literature, American literature, we

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studied Shakespeare, but my favorite subject was journalism. I actually liked journalism a lot. Um I guess I liked the challenge and, you know, just listening or exposing to what’s going on,

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you know, news in the world. So I remember I actually, uh, enjoyed taking journalism. But for my other, uh, dual focus in education, I liked psychology and uh, sociology a lot.

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Yeah. Okay. Um, and then what brought you to the United States? Um, at the time, you know, in the uh, late ‘70s, early ‘80s, um, the, you know, we always

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think to come to the western world will broaden our view. Um, especially when I decide to go on to education, and I’m just, you know, very willing to learn the western philosophy and their

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perspective towards education. It’s well known Chinese education is very traditional and um, um, you know, we actually well defined the learning part or the ethic—ethics part, okay.

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Everything is well defined. But I’m kinda curious about the western philosophy on education, on bringing up an individual, um, and how western culture respects the individualism.

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Not to say Chinese culture didn’t, but it’s in a very different way. So um, with that I came over to actually following the education track, even though, you know, I did take a major in

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administration, um, but I practiced many years in psychology, yeah. Okay. Um, so you came to the University of Michigan first? Okay, and

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then you had studied, um, sorry, the—it was a degree in educational administration and supervision? Right, that’s a degree But then, I, I did take psychology as my, um, what

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would you call it, elective. Usually when you’re administration major, they want you to have an elective Like you focus on something, so, I did psychology, and uh, and interestingly enough actually, my first job start

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in a psychology field, you know, um, yeah. So did you have any, um, I guess, im—like, your first impressions of the States, what was that like? Um, it was quite a um, a culture

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shock in a way. Um, even though I studied English, so I was exposed to a lot of, you know, English literature or American literature, but still, going from

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a semi-tropical city to Ann Arbor, where, you know that winter we got like nine feet of snow! And so um, but I was quite amazed by the, um, openness, okay, now just talk about the

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campus itself. It’s basically, it was a very liberal and uh, okay, open-minded campus, and it is a huge campus. I think University of Michigan is one of the largest universities, so

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um…they uh, you know, are very diverse international student group, you know, at the U of M, so um, I lived in a dorm and befriended with our roommates from South America, from the Philippines, and uh,

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and some of my uh, classmates are from Mideast and Europe so it was quite an experience. I really enjoyed it, you know, because when you um, have roommates or befriend with people

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from different culture, you know, from different continents, um, that’s really a first-hand learning, right. And all of a sudden, you know, things that I learned from the books become

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reality. Yeah. I enjoyed my years at Ann Arbor. Okay. Um, were your friends in the same program, or were they from different programs of— From different programs because like, the big dorm I stayed with, okay.

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Uh, I do have one roommate, she’s in the um, uh, School of Education, but the other uh, young lady, uh, she studied engineering, and then I also have a South American, uh,

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roommate. There are four of us, okay, in the apartment. She actually was—she was just there to take ESL, because she was much younger. Right, yeah. Did you have any culture shocks?

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Uh, I would say yes and no, because like I mentioned, you know, my undergraduate study really prepared myself, okay, um, for the western culture and um, but still, um, just attending,

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you know, uh, graduate school there, language, you know, even though I was an English major but I still remember the first semester I carried uh, a much bigger tape recorder like this, okay, to

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my class because yes, I can understand what the professor was sharing with us but I couldn’t just jot down the notes at the same time, catch what he’s talking about, so I carry a tape recorder with me, uh, for one semester.

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So, so I understand, you know, regardless how prepared you are, when you come from East to the West, we all encounter major adjustment, yeah. So uh, you didn’t—did you experience any discrimination

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on campus when you came? I think at Michigan, um, we—I didn’t personally, and honestly if I remember looking around the campus, okay, um, because we have a strong sports

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program then, you know, we went to Rose Bowl and I think we got the championship that year, you see a lot of athletes, okay, students in the campus.

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And, you know, they are very proud of themselves and usually they are not white, okay, so, not really in Ann Arbor. But at the same time, Ann Arbor is in Michigan, and Detroit in the late ‘70s, ‘early

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80s, is going through a lot of social issues, okay. And there was a case about a Chinese guy, okay, actually um, very sadly he was killed because um, it was Chén Guǒrén, Vincent Chin, ok.

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Is that, is it Vincent? I’m not sure the name, but I do know the Chinese name. That incident was a big, you know, um, headliner,

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okay, um, and so we understood when things like that happened, yes, you can say ignorance plus discrimination. And even though the discrimination came from ignorance, because, you know, the auto factories, okay, um, the, the two guys thought he

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was a Japanese and they got angry because they thought they lost their job because of the auto factory is going through so major changes because the Japanese, okay. So that was a tragedy, but really that did happen at the

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same time I was there, and the city was just like 40 minutes drive from Ann Arbor. And so I know that city itself, um, you know, encountered a huge, uh, conflict via race, you know, or, um, economic discrimination, you know, so it is an era where

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discrimination start to become, um, an issue, yeah. So how did it affect you? What did it make you feel?

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I guess at that time, um, because I was just two years in America, and pretty much live in a campus, right, um, however I was aware of that when I um, my husband and I, we start job

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hunting, okay, um, we realized that the difference among races did impact how you can, you know, pursue your next step.

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My husband is an architect, ok. I remember he went to Boston and interviewing for job, and he had a friend, okay, in Charlestown, where is heavily um, you know,

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um, re—resided by, um, I want to say, um, Irish people. And so when he was, like, on the street walking, and he remembered people would say something to him because he definitely didn’t

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look like Irish, okay, he is from Taiwan as well. But at the time we couldn’t fully understood why, but, you know, being here longer we realized, oh, that is what we call, it may not be

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discrimination, but racial issues okay, uh, did exist. Not just African American but even like, you know, when an Asian guy walking the Charlestown okay, uh, Irish descent will shout at him,

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you know, uh, about some things. So we’re aware of that when we start to, you know, uh, finishing schooling, going to the career path, yeah. Okay, and um, did you have,

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uh, how did you go—like when you graduated from U Michigan, uh, how did you look for jobs around the area? We actually came to Texas, uh, after my husband finished his degree because I got out a

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little bit earlier. Um, the main reason is being immigrant foreign students, okay, at the time. Um, basically it’s the economy dictates where we gonna landed at. So northern states at the time

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wasn’t doing too well, so we decided to come to Texas where he actually has a relative in Houston, that’s what brought us to Houston the first time. Um, but then, unfortunately it

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happened to have that oil crisis, okay, so he found the first offer in San Antonio so we actually landed in San Antonio as our first city for job. And um, uh, San Antonio is a very different city

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for Texas. Um, uh, luckily, you know, we um, we started there, and it’s a very friendly environment, um, and we enjoyed the, you know, um, the, you know, what we call it, it’s a

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diverse culture over there because it’s heavily Latino, you know, uh, Hispanic culture and um, uh, it has a very small Chinese population, so we basically just make friends with, you know,

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our neighbors and uh, my kids, um, for a while I remember my oldest son, he used to be the only Chinese or Asian boy in the class , or even in the whole grade. Yeah, yeah. That

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was back in early ‘80s, yeah. So you moved to San Antonio in what year? From ‘82 to ‘90, because 1990 was the year we came to Houston. Okay, um, and what was your first job in San Antonio?

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I work at the YMCA after-school program. Because it’s part-time and um, my oldest son was two and a half, so I wanted to try a part-time job. But at the time I didn’t have the

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green card yet, so you can say I was undocumented for like six months or something, because I was waiting for my green card. But YMCA then was very supportive.

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They basically just paid me cash I think. If—or they just, you know, give me a paycheck or something without asking for my um, work visa, yeah.

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Um, but that was very, uh, short term. Yeah. So I was a after-school teacher at the YMCA. Okay, so what did you teach? I taught, um, arts and crafts, and some sports

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activities, yeah. I remember playing soccer with my children there. Okay. And what did you do after being a part-time teacher there? Um, after I got my green card, I moved on to full

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time, you know, employment. So that’s the time I start my, um, full-time employee with Goodwill Industries. They basically serve people with some kind of disability, so I do, um, psychological

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testing with that population. And then, also they have assessment department where they help people, um, looking for job. But what we do is in the assessment department we test peoples’ aptitude.

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So it’s pretty much like vocational testing to help people find the right match for employment. Yeah, so that was my first full-time job, yeah.

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And that was still in San Antonio? Yes, uh huh. Okay. And then you said you moved to—in—to Houston in 1990. Mhm. And so then you came here to—you came to the CCC… I actually worked for a private sector company, but they are still doing

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rehab, and because when I was doing testing, okay, and a lot of that is vocational testing. And to people with some kind of disability.

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So, when I came over, I worked for a private sector, um, like, what we call it is, work-hardening facility. Um, we treat, um, we treat, uh, injured workers, and so working a team with physical therapists, occupational therapists, and I do the vocational rehab.

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Um, so it’s a rehab center, but it’s a private sector, uh huh. Okay, and was that the DRCA WorkWell? DRCA WorkWell. Yeah, uh huh.

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Um, and then what brought you to CCC? Um, from that actually, I did go back to Taipei for five years. With the same reason, you know, um, back in the

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late ‘80s, early ‘90s, actually economy in Texas hit another low. So my husband, um, received a—um, an offer in Taiwan, um, to do some overseas projects. So that kind of, you know, gave us the opportunity to bring the two boys

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back to Taipei and uh, and so when I was there, of course my boys are learning Chinese, and uh, when—after we f inished that assignment, come—coming back, um, I worked for

00:30:47.710 - 00:31:00.770

women’s home briefly. Then CCC recruited me. I did teach Chinese class at CCC before, um, you know, before we moved back to Taipei.

00:31:01.270 - 00:31:14.550

So my two boys are like, they are learning preschool, you know, doing how-- the phonics, and so I took them—not this facility, but uh, the very early phase we’re at a much smaller site.

00:31:15.350 - 00:31:35.020

Um, while they are learning Chinese for first time, I was teaching there. So after I came back, I went back to rehab, full-time job. And then, CCC’s executive director then, she called me. She said, “You know what, we really need, um,

00:31:35.450 - 00:31:49.710

professional human-service, you know, um, employees.” Um, but it’s real hard to find a Chinese one, because most of the Chinese are in different fields, okay. So basically I’m the only one she knew

00:31:50.090 - 00:32:05.140

that’s in, you know, education, and in human services, so she basically recruit me and convinced me to come to CCC, and that was 1999, when I came back from Taipei. Yeah, mhm.

00:32:05.370 - 00:32:22.940

And CCC was still a language school at that time, or…? That was a Chinese school, and they just add job training and uh, early childhood. Yeah. When I came over I know there’s only few social-service,

00:32:23.030 - 00:32:36.030

you know, program there. And I remember job training was one of them. Okay. And so you worked as a Chinese school teacher, or…? At that time I actually took on the administration side, so I was the

00:32:36.070 - 00:32:51.860

school principal. And then, um, I became the deputy to the executive director. Yeah, because at the time I did accumulate a solid about 10 or 15 years field experience, and CCC I

00:32:51.950 - 00:33:07.650

believe at the time the board is having a vision to grow and expand. So Nancy recruited me and say, “We, you know, would benefit,” you know, from my expertise and my experience in the non-profit sector.

00:33:07.970 - 00:33:26.900

Okay. So up until then, what kind of experiences did you, like, gain from your other jobs? Um, I guess, you know, when you work in the human services, um, you understand, okay, the, the under-served population, the population with disabilities,

00:33:27.710 - 00:33:39.300

um, basically we learn, um…even though we’ve, we think all human beings are equal, but a lot of times reality didn’t offer everybody the equal opportunity.

00:33:40.480 - 00:33:56.380

So working the human-service domain, I learned that it takes an intentional effort to bring people to equal opportunities, yeah. And then that’s why, um,

00:33:57.250 - 00:34:10.980

I feel like, oh, maybe it’s my calling to come to CCC and work for me from Asian Americans. Because I, I do speak the language, yes, and I do know the culture very well.

00:34:11.500 - 00:34:27.290

And then, you know, having been in America for, you know, 10, 15 years, um, I am at a good position to serve this population, yeah. Mhm. Yeah. And so you were deputy to the executive director?

00:34:28.010 - 00:34:43.960

And then uh, how did you become the CEO? Well, um, Nancy at the time, well, this is the immigration generation. Um, my former ED, Nancy, um, her parents, who were still in Hong Kong, uh, um, at the

00:34:43.960 - 00:34:55.950

time I guess, um, because of aging issues they have health issues. So Nancy decided to take an early retirement and to spend more time in Hong Kong, take care of her parents.

00:34:55.950 - 00:35:15.020

So she basically, um, retired, three years after I, you know, work as her assistant. And at the time, um, I actually didn’t really consider applying for the ED position, because I enjoy doing

00:35:15.390 - 00:35:26.760

programming. You know, being a deputy you basically work on the floor, right. ED pretty much is the person in charge, you have to do fundraising, I really didn’t want that headache, right.

00:35:26.760 - 00:35:42.960

So I was very happy with being the, uh, deputy, but at the same time, you know…Chinese Community Center, and you really want to have a—if you want to have a language and culture kind

00:35:43.590 - 00:35:59.400

of administrator, that search went on for a while, okay, and it was very difficult to find. So um, she actually encouraged me. Even though she’s exiting, she say, “Chi-mei, I think you should send in

00:35:59.460 - 00:36:16.130

your résumé.” So I did it the last day, you know, before they closed the application. And then, of course, I mean we have some very, very good candidates, but now I understand why I actually became—or was chosen.

00:36:17.020 - 00:36:31.520

Because I do have a special set of…skill set or experience that I can sh—I can grow, help this agency to grow, and I can serve the population, the majority of the population we serve at the time, yeah.

00:36:32.000 - 00:36:46.950

Which was predominantly Asian Americans, yeah. Okay, um, what kind of challenges did you face when you first took on the role? Honestly, at that time, coming from like, mainstream, you know, uh,

00:36:47.280 - 00:37:02.110

agencies, I actually go through what we call a reverse adjustment. Because Chinese Community Center then, in the late ‘90s, okay, we started it as language school, and then

00:37:02.230 - 00:37:19.120

it was volunteer-run for a while. So my adjustment was like, I really want, you know, procedures, policies in place so I can help run the agency, you know, in a more efficient or effective way.

00:37:20.690 - 00:37:38.260

Then I encountered some culture shock, because CCC at the time was really just fine, a very family-oriented, you know, it’s a very cozy culture, and everybody just, you know, have what we call it

00:37:38.260 - 00:37:51.730

is like, we’re friends, right, we know each other, our kids know each other, so I was a little bit, you know, uh, anxious because to me it’s like, if we want to run CCC like a mainstream,

00:37:53.650 - 00:38:04.860

um, you know, first-tier agency, we really need to have guidelines. We need to have procedures. So that was the adjustment, and also the

00:38:05.220 - 00:38:20.310

effort I put in. The initial years, I believe I s—you know, I put in place a lot of staff training, a lot of outcome management practice.

00:38:20.830 - 00:38:37.540

I want our agency to move from a moms-and-pop operation to an operation where we hold ourselves accountable. So, my initial years, I would say the first three, five years, that was a main focus for me.

00:38:38.000 - 00:38:54.090

Mhm. Were people, like, supportive of that, um, that vision of becoming more mainstream? It takes time, because I need to be part of them first in order to bring them to the same

00:38:54.310 - 00:39:07.770

vision. So initially of course people didn’t—I wouldn’t say they don’t support me, they probably just didn’t understand why’d I want to do things differently, right? “We’re just fine for ten years

00:39:07.820 - 00:39:22.230

plus, okay, why all of a sudden we need to do things differently?” I think it was that. So, I learn and then my mentor actually became Nancy. She’d been with the agency for six-plus years

00:39:22.570 - 00:39:36.900

before she retired, so she shared her experience with me, so I learned how to first be part of this family, the big family. And then together I need to convince

00:39:36.960 - 00:39:47.950

them and form the same vision. Um, so yes, there were, you know, different opinions, you know. I wouldn’t say opposition, but it was just, it was not smooth.

00:39:48.810 - 00:40:02.560

It takes an intentional effort. And I do understand that in our culture, in Chinese culture, we may not communicate as much. We do respect each other but we don’t

00:40:02.560 - 00:40:15.100

communicate as much. However, to bring everybody to the same vision, communication is the only way. And so um, yeah, the first

00:40:15.100 - 00:40:32.180

few years, being the executive committee, um that, I would say that was quite an experience for me. Oh, you received a lot of mentorship from Nancy? From Nancy and then of course, uh, CCC is part of the United

00:40:32.360 - 00:40:47.250

Way of Greater Houston, so United Way actually has been the agency’s mentor, I would say that. They coach us, you know, to um, develop the outcome management practice, and they offer us

00:40:47.250 - 00:41:01.380

staff training, professional training, um, we are very lucky in Houston, our United Way is, you know, really top of the, you know, the line, among all the uh, United Way U.S.A., yeah.

00:41:01.590 - 00:41:18.200

Yeah, this is a very strong and um, um, high leadership, I would say, mhm. Okay. So do they provide financial help as well, or…? Yes, um, you know, since we’ve become a United Way agency in 1991,

00:41:18.740 - 00:41:34.660

um, United Way usually will do their campaign, and then allocate some operational funding to member agencies. But we’re just very pleased that while CCC grows, from the ‘90s to 2000, when we expand to,

00:41:34.810 - 00:41:50.580

you know, uh, from youth, you know, adult education to senior program, their funding increase accordingly. So um, right now we are a very solid and uh, uh, very reputable United Way

00:41:50.990 - 00:42:07.090

agency. Uh huh. Um, and what year did you became, uh, CEO? 2002. Well, actually I was the executive director, and uh, it was t hree years ago when I actually changed the executive—executive director

00:42:07.090 - 00:42:20.400

into CEO, right. Because CEO—uh, private sector tend to use CEO. Non-profit, we call the administrator, uh, CEO—I mean, executive director, right.

00:42:21.620 - 00:42:39.670

And uh, with your years of being here, how have you seen CCC evolve? Like I described, because, you know, our—we originated as a language school with a group of very committed parents, it’s volunteer-run, so

00:42:40.990 - 00:42:59.760

we run very healthy—healthy in a way because it’s volunteer-run, but then when we evolved into more professional services, you know, human services, job training, early-childhood education, the professional part becomes stronger and

00:42:59.870 - 00:43:16.100

stronger. And uh, like I said, when we joined the United Way of Greater Houston and uh, and many of our programs received national accreditation, that’s how CCC evolves or grows from a

00:43:16.870 - 00:43:30.720

volunteer-run language school to a pretty much a first-tier non-profit agency, um, in, in Houston. Yeah, but it, it did take a while because we were founded in ’79, next year gonna be

00:43:30.910 - 00:43:47.000

our fortieth- year anniversary, so yeah. A lot of um, dedication, a lot of support from the community, uh, make this a, you know, make this, the growth happen, yeah.

00:43:48.140 - 00:44:02.540

Um, so how have you seen the demographics change in the CCC? Um, it did change quite a bit, you know, from the first ten, fifteen years, you basically see the first -generation immigrant families here, right.

00:44:03.150 - 00:44:16.420

Parents want their kids to keep their mother tongue, so they drag them to language school and spend a weekend here. And then, um, you know, with the influx of immigrants from Asian countries in the

00:44:16.500 - 00:44:30.020

late ‘90s, okay, you would see more diverse Asian families here. Some of them from Vietnam, some of them from Hong Kong, some of them from Singapore, so the Chinese Community Center is pretty much more

00:44:30.020 - 00:44:47.780

like an Asian Community Center. But the globalization—the Houston’s local economy, you know, with oil-gas industry and the very strong Texas Medical Center, we see expatriates from

00:44:48.640 - 00:45:01.850

oil-gas company need to go to Asian countries, many of the employ—professional employees or engineers, they come to CCC and learn Chinese. So our Chinese school basically is the first

00:45:01.920 - 00:45:18.020

indicator for the diversity of different, you know, population coming to the language school. We see it from 10 percent to 15 percent to now, I would say 40 percent of language-school students,

00:45:18.360 - 00:45:30.070

they are non-Asian. Yeah, mhm. Then, like a job-training, you know, program. If people want to get a skill upgrading and they live in the southwest neighborhood,

00:45:30.970 - 00:45:47.420

and this neighborhood actually served as first hub for a lot of immigrant families, be it from South America or from Asian countries, right, so, who are offered job-training program, you can walk into the classroom, you may not even see a Chinese face there, right.

00:45:47.420 - 00:45:58.920

But they are all from the , from the Bellaire area, yeah. Okay. Um, and, uh, so what programs does CCC plan on expanding in the future?

00:46:00.450 - 00:46:14.360

At this time, we are, um, going through a construction to build a senior center. Our board actually, they do, um, strategy planning, I would say every three to five years. However, the

00:46:14.510 - 00:46:31.560

census, okay, usually is the following year of the census, they always provide the analytical data. That usually serve as a direction for what kind of social services we’re gonna invest, okay.

00:46:32.190 - 00:46:48.300

So from 2000, we realized aging is a global issue. So we established the senior department, okay. That is the most, um, new department we established. We had early childhood, we have youth,

00:46:48.340 - 00:47:03.820

we have job training, adult education. We add senior services after census 2000. 2010, the board actually made a decision after the analytical data become

00:47:04.030 - 00:47:22.800

available. Wow, Asian population is growing. It’s fastest-growing segment. And then aging is still an iss—a global issue. So with that, we decided to expand by going for a

00:47:22.800 - 00:47:35.900

capital expansion. So that decision was made at our 2011 board retreat, which is like a strategic planning. And 2014, with three years visibility, we

00:47:35.900 - 00:47:48.310

decide to kick off a second capital campaign. So now, you know, if you take a look of that north side, we were at about 25,000 square footage at the end of the year.

00:47:48.800 - 00:48:05.690

Uh huh. And that’s the New Horizons project? Yes. Okay. We will have a senior center, we’re also gonna add a community space on the second floor. We have an auditorium, conference center, and we’ll also convert a um, warehouse space into a

00:48:05.690 - 00:48:19.570

recreational center, right. Oh wow. Um, and so what are your long-term and also short-term goals for CCC? Um, that’s really, as

00:48:19.650 - 00:48:36.040

we grow, our short-term goal is to make sure when we finish our capital expansion, our new program will be ready. We will have a state license, adult day program, we will expand to our, um, recreational

00:48:37.410 - 00:48:48.900

activity for the youth and for the retirement population. We want to make sure when we finish the capital campaign financially and uh, programming, we are ready, okay.

00:48:49.610 - 00:49:05.660

And then long-term goal is, by the time, you know, this community center become the community center for the southwest Houston, um, we really want to be part of this community, okay.

00:49:06.920 - 00:49:19.130

Including management district, the Bellaire corridor, um, a lot of small-business development. Center really want to be just a strong partner to this neighborhood.

00:49:21.190 - 00:49:38.090

Um, and uh, in relation to like, the board, um, how are board members chosen, and how, in—in what increments of time are they chosen, I guess? Oh, you know, I have to say I’m very proud that the CCC’s board is the most powerful one,

00:49:38.390 - 00:49:49.820

okay. In a way, um, we have a very diverse board, okay. We have 19 members right now, um, with different expertise.

00:49:50.270 - 00:50:02.100

We go by the need, okay. So um, every year we have board election, but our board usually will serve a three-year term, and there is a term limit.

00:50:02.920 - 00:50:15.690

So um, you know, people, even though they are so contributing, uh, when they hit a term limit, they do need to exit, and we call it they need to graduate or take a sabbatical, and if

00:50:15.690 - 00:50:29.180

we continue to have that need, we will reelect them to join the board. Uh, at this time, okay, we have finance committee and uh, fund-development committee, and we also have program committee.

00:50:30.550 - 00:50:42.100

When we decide to go on the capital campaign, we actually activate our long-range planning committee. Long- range planning committee basically focus on long-term

00:50:43.770 - 00:51:00.410

facility expansion, okay, um, that is part of capital campaign. So CCC’s board is very healthy and highly functional. And um, on the financial aspect of CCC, um, besides the

00:51:00.410 - 00:51:12.340

United Way of Greater Houston, what other, um, financial support do you get from the community, and possibly the government as well? Um, we actually run a very healthy operation, and

00:51:13.410 - 00:51:29.370

this is what I call, you know, the, the golden rule, okay. One third of our funding need to come from public sector. The second third come from private sector, which include the foundation, corporate,

00:51:29.370 - 00:51:40.980

you know, uh, individual donation. The other third, the rest, do need to be fee-based, meaning we have to generate the revenue ourselves.

00:51:41.440 - 00:51:54.070

I think in—in that manner, a non-profit agency, especially direct-service agency, we don’t need to worry about, “What if this policy change,” okay. Say if an agency

00:51:54.090 - 00:52:07.970

heavily depend on federal or public-sector funding, what if the policy change? Then agency gonna face major financial crisis, right. And since, you know, we’re healthy, so we’re really

00:52:08.580 - 00:52:22.600

happy, we’re very lucky. We do have, like, an early- childhood child-care center, nationally accredited—if families are regular income, they pay tuition. Language school, on Saturday and

00:52:22.600 - 00:52:37.780

Sunday, when people want to join our gym to play sports, they pay membership fee, okay. So we do have few what we call revenue-generating programs. But we do—our fund-development

00:52:38.270 - 00:52:53.760

grant writer, we write proposals to seek funding and support from greater Houston area foundation or even national foundation. And then of course, the service, the nature of our service,

00:52:53.900 - 00:53:12.090

we always apply for public funding, ranging from federal, state, and the local. But the balance, you know, ideally should be 33, 33, 33. Okay. And then how do you determine how to distribute the funding

00:53:12.470 - 00:53:26.370

for the programs at CCC? We do have business planning every year, and uh, out of business planning, the core services— we have five core services at CCC.

00:53:26.780 - 00:53:43.400

We have a nationally accredited child-care center, a very, uh, strong after-school program, and uh, they do a whole-day summer camp at this time of the year. And we also have adult education, they provide ESL job training,

00:53:43.820 - 00:54:01.150

citizenship. Then the senior program, right. A lot of benefit counseling, you know, health management, workshop, and uh, going forward it’s the adult-day program, and besides our oldest program, which is the

00:54:01.210 - 00:54:19.810

language school. So we have five core services. At the business planning, every department, they would review their operational budget and spell out or discuss what would be a potential new

00:54:21.120 - 00:54:34.220

program, or, do we need to modify certain programs. That will kinda help the management to allocate the funding. And then of course if you see the need, if we do not have the

00:54:34.330 - 00:54:51.450

funding then, we will write proposal to look for funding. Because if we decide that is an area we need to go in, okay, because it has high need. Then we will find some support to support that

00:54:51.870 - 00:55:06.900

expansion. So allocation of the funding basically is by the business plan. Yeah. Um, and does CCC have partnerships with other social-service organizations in Houston, or

00:55:06.940 - 00:55:23.040

like other Asian American organizations in Houston? Yes, actually, um, that’s almost a uh, must now-a-days. Non-profit, okay, our resources are very limited. So capacity building will give us the opportunity

00:55:23.620 - 00:55:40.310

to expand our resources. Um, you know, all the way from Red Cross, okay, we’re a voluntary shelter for Red Cross, to um, uh, like, MD Anderson, where we do health projects, health fair.

00:55:40.330 - 00:55:52.110

Um, we actually have a lot of programming partners, okay. Even from the community-service side, um, we invite HPD, uh,

00:55:52.200 - 00:56:06.060

Houston Public Library, to come to our community fair because we want our parents, our, our, you know, uh, families to know where they can find resources when they have a need, right.

00:56:06.550 - 00:56:22.790

So we build our partner every day when we find opportunity, yeah. Mhm. How about other, um, Asian American social services in the U. S.? Have you guys formed partnerships with them or, like, how would you compare to the

00:56:22.790 - 00:56:32.230

other services that they have? Um, yes we do. We are part of some national initiative. Um, some of the program actually

00:56:32.390 - 00:56:42.340

originated from national level. Um, there is a housing project, originally from CAPACD, National CAPACD, which is a Washington, D.

00:56:42.340 - 00:56:56.470

C.-based organization. And we are part of a senior employment program that’s under NAPCA, which is also API agency on aging, okay, so we have national partners

00:56:57.760 - 00:57:11.630

and um, other API agencies. Even locally, like when we were doing with Harvey relief, uh, we partnered with Boat People SOS, and uh, we also have OCA Houston. And if you look at CCC,

00:57:12.000 - 00:57:26.050

our office building here, we already have three, um, A—you cannot say API, just smaller-sized non-profits, they cohouse with us. Our board decide, you know, when we have our big facility,

00:57:26.050 - 00:57:39.140

we want to reserve some space to share with smaller-sized Asian, where they didn’t have their own facility, right. So we have OCA Houston here, we have Light and Salt, and then we also

00:57:39.790 - 00:57:57.770

have AADA, Asians Against Domestic Abuse here. Yeah. So um, our board, and in—social services, we, we believe in capacity building and the partnership. Okay. Um, and what is a typical day, like what kind of activities are you involved

00:57:58.070 - 00:58:09.940

in in your role? Um, at this time, okay, like 2018, I can tell you, I’m lucky today you didn’t see me wearing my hard hat, okay.

00:58:10.490 - 00:58:29.170

Um, basically I do need to attend outside meetings, okay, um, because as I mentioned we’re in a lot of collaborative with other fellow agencies. And then, we also, uh, I actually do need to, um,

00:58:29.590 - 00:58:43.490

monitor our financial status, you know, not to say, check into the financial statements, the balance sheet, no, just basically like this time of the year we know the construction is midway through.

00:58:44.260 - 00:58:57.910

At the end of the, the year, we have to pay out to the contractor. So I will spend some time to take a look at our financial standing, um, any fundraising, you know, effort we need to put in.

00:58:58.810 - 00:59:17.000

So part of that is that physical responsibility, right. And then, of course, in the afternoon I will do more, um, programming or what we call administrative duty, like, I remember this afternoon after this interview

00:59:17.640 - 00:59:27.650

I will be conducting staff evaluation. And I only do the director level. So um, that usually is a very standard

00:59:28.790 - 00:59:43.070

CEO’s day at a non-profit. You know, you take care of the physical part and then you take care of the, you know, collaborative, what we call is the, um, presentation of the agency into the, you know,

00:59:44.040 - 00:59:57.570

collaborative. And then of course there are some in-house duties, right. And not just HR, sometimes if we decide to go in with a new proposal, I will sit down with the program director

00:59:57.890 - 01:00:10.730

and the grant writer and see what kind of, you know, um, programs or services we’re gonna present in the proposal. So um, some of that.

01:00:11.410 - 01:00:26.720

Planning, yeah, also is, you know, part of the CEO’s daily job, yeah. Okay. Have you faced any challenges as a female CEO in Houston? Of course, yeah.

01:00:26.720 - 01:00:43.260

Um, earlier years, you know, even in the private sector. Um, now too. But because non-profit, I would say 90 percent, if not even higher, of non-profit, um, practitioners,

01:00:43.890 - 01:01:02.060

we are all females, okay, so, among ourselves, of course, it’s already—we’re blind, okay. But we’re aware of it, okay. When you go out to talk with a

01:01:03.110 - 01:01:21.170

outside person as simple as our contractor, I need to be well prepared if I carry my prints and call for a meeting, right, very likely you’re going to walk into a group of…tall

01:01:21.520 - 01:01:39.760

guys, they’re, you know, plumbers, electricians, you know, they’re contractors, okay. A female administrator, CEO, okay, you—we need to know how to present ourselves and communicate

01:01:40.520 - 01:01:57.070

in an equally respectful way when we deal with that situation, right. Let alone if you go to a different sector and you’re female, right, and you encounter a male-dominant CEO

01:01:57.410 - 01:02:15.290

environment. I mean, I guess coming from psychology field, okay, background, I want to make sure that I will make sure people will treat me equally. The best way is you get yourself prepared.

01:02:16.050 - 01:02:29.060

You need to do your homework, okay. And then you need to also learn how to stand up for yourself. I would say females sometimes have our own

01:02:29.200 - 01:02:42.430

way, but you definitely need to know some principle need to stand firm. Okay, so, I have encountered a few incidents where I just had to, you know,

01:02:43.080 - 01:02:58.290

kinda stood up for myself, um, but definitely the gender issue, especially at the top level, executives, it is, it is there. Yeah, uh huh. Okay. And how about as an Asian CEO, have you

01:02:58.960 - 01:03:17.400

faced any challenges, or…? You know, in the non-profit sector, especially being here, you know, pretty much, um, over 10, 15 years okay, myself, okay, um, the non-profit industry respect me very well.

01:03:19.130 - 01:03:33.720

And uh, however, we recognize that being the minority of minority—I mean look at the census, API or Chinese only account for a single digit, right. You know we uh, we have very little resources.

01:03:36.300 - 01:03:53.610

And therefore, sometimes when I go to, you know, a collaborative meeting, when larger agency, you know—for example, I’m just making things up, okay, if you know how YMCA or Girl Scouts can talk in that scale, CCC cannot.

01:03:54.210 - 01:04:11.050

Because we’re only a 3.5-million operation, and our population in total in Houston is only 6 percent. You see what I’m saying, so, there’s some pre existing—I don’t want to say pre-existing limitation,

01:04:12.580 - 01:04:32.340

but there’s some pre- existing, uh, fact that make us API CEOs feel like somehow, there is, there is limited resources. Not— not coming from outside is a realization from,

01:04:32.900 - 01:04:44.280

from myself. Yeah. Um, how do you go about, like, around those limitations, I guess? That is, uh, ongoing, uh, homework.

01:04:45.390 - 01:05:00.840

Because we know, we, we cannot just compromise or settle with that limitation, right. So we constantly learn how to maximize our resources. That’s why we always build partnership.

01:05:02.010 - 01:05:21.660

And the other thing is, we make the best use of what we have. Um, sometimes people say, “Oh, you know, Asian people are just hardworking,” right. Um, “One person can do three people’s job.” It’s not really that, it’s always is like knowing that API

01:05:21.730 - 01:05:41.760

is a minority minority, so we do need to put in extra effort in order to leverage larger outcome. So it’s an intentional behavior. At this time that’s how I share with my team here.

01:05:43.490 - 01:05:59.750

If we work extra harder, we actually, you know, leverage our much higher outcome. It’s not because I’m a slave driver, it’s because we’re only having this much resources.

01:06:00.290 - 01:06:17.680

Yeah. And we read that you, um, got the Harvard, um, business scholarship and that you were also in the Class XXXV, the ALF, the American Leadership Forum Class XXXV. So um, how have these opportunities helped you, like,

01:06:18.200 - 01:06:30.540

gain experience in helping CCC grow? Um, back in 2007 it’s, you know, ten years ago, I went to Harvard Kennedy School. Um, and that was very eye -opening.

01:06:30.640 - 01:06:43.620

I was very pleased because the—actually is the Asian alumni, API alumni, from the business school, they offer one full scholarship a year. And that year somebody

01:06:43.620 - 01:06:57.430

invited me to compete. And I got the spot, okay. Uh, it was an intensive study at the business school with I want to say close to one hundred CEOs from all over the

01:06:57.530 - 01:07:17.830

world. So it was well prepared from that project, okay, or from their, uh, the week-long training. Um, we get to discuss world-famous cases happening in the non-profit world, from World Bank, from um,

01:07:17.830 - 01:07:38.220

um, what we call it is, nature res—uh, preservation, and uh, um, water issues in Africa. These are huge, or even the medical system in America, like from Boston, okay, where it was a huge medical

01:07:38.590 - 01:07:54.530

community, hospital system. They talk about important, okay, non-profit challenges, okay. And the, the training is on how CEOs focus on problem solving or alternative

01:07:55.670 - 01:08:11.640

thinking. I, I feel like I never studied that hard all my life. Keep doing that seven days training, and basically we got locked into that school and uh, seven in the morning we need to get up and study the

01:08:11.960 - 01:08:21.660

case, okay, and there are binders this thick and several of them. And of course they had the, you know, top, top-notch professors there.

01:08:22.500 - 01:08:39.610

And just to interact with people from Geneva, you know, from different countries, um, uh, and from different sectors, meaning we have CEOs from the higher education, from the university system,

01:08:40.450 - 01:08:56.360

from hospital system, from um, banking system, but they are all working in the non-profit. That experience was just, you know, so valuable. And then coming back, I’m just very eager to share with

01:08:56.580 - 01:09:14.180

my team, it’s really the problem-solving focus. Sometimes, you know, it’s human nature, we tend to get like, you know, tangled into that issue itself. You get frustrated, you get anxious, and there’s a

01:09:14.230 - 01:09:32.890

lot of negative energy. But at that, you know, non-profit executive training, you’re given a major crisis, and in such a short period of time you need to come up with a solution, okay, um, so that was

01:09:33.030 - 01:09:49.090

that experience and uh, enlightenment, that I come back and uh, call my team and share with them. Yeah, and of course at the American Leadership Forum, it’s really the support and

01:09:49.350 - 01:10:04.090

fellowship, okay. You know, what’s that word, the comradeness, okay, that we build. So it’s more like, in psychology we call, that’s a solid support group. Because we’re, in different

01:10:04.500 - 01:10:24.110

sector. We have private sector, we have public sector, and then we have um, people that have their, you know, like uh, entrepreneurs, okay. Um, we all come together, all—and if you spend, like, yeah, we actually spend the whole year, okay, um,

01:10:25.270 - 01:10:39.580

study different social issues, but at the same time we spend whole week in the mountain wilderness, okay, with nothing, practically nothing, okay. Um, that’s when you, you know, really find the support,

01:10:40.150 - 01:10:52.000

because the trust need to be there. And that, that also is a very unique experience for me, uh huh. Um, so how about the American Leadership Forum? Yeah, that’s the American Leadership Forum.

01:10:52.000 - 01:11:06.640

Right, the, the one that we spent a whole year studying social issues, and um, uh, we went, you know, pretty much like lockdown, you know, in a cabin in the wilderness. Yeah, and it somehow stimulate

01:11:07.150 - 01:11:20.710

the innermost is the trust issue, the love, the care, because, you know, you don’t have any, you don’t have your WiFi, you don’t have your cell phone. And uh, you take care of each other.

01:11:20.830 - 01:11:34.660

Um, we have some physical, you know, training challenge, you have to do rock climbing, you have to climb the mountain, um, the, our team captain is a 72-year-old lady.

01:11:34.750 - 01:11:48.890

You definitely want to make sure, we go in 25, we come back 25, in one piece, right. So the American Leadership Forum, and then the level of everybody’s, uh, you know, thinking,

01:11:49.370 - 01:12:01.620

and uh, experience, we talk about social issues, um, that was very, also very enlightening. Yeah. Mhm. So what was, um, some of the main, like, I guess…uh,

01:12:04.400 - 01:12:18.980

visions that you came back with to CCC that you hope to like, enact from those, from those learning, through those experiences? Um, when—whenever, you know, CEOs, okay, went to leadership training, some people

01:12:18.980 - 01:12:35.740

didn’t bother to, they’d say, “Gee, if I have more time, I need to stay in and handle my business,” right. But it is necessary, especially when you have opportunity to go to like, a Harvard business school and, you know, being invited into the

01:12:36.430 - 01:12:52.800

American Leadership Forum. Because the bottom line is, we are still human beings. Okay, you have to accept that there’s always room to seek support and room to grow.

01:12:53.780 - 01:13:10.880

So, you know, I don’t go to leadership training every year, but whenever I found one that’s highly recommended, and uh, and later on I truly found out, I learned and gained a lot from that.

01:13:12.060 - 01:13:32.010

I think that benefit me as an individual because a lot of time people say CEOs or executive directors, you get burned out easily. Um, you can use that leadership opportunity as a support group, like I said.

01:13:32.440 - 01:13:44.460

Because you’re talking with fellow CEOs, okay. And then, on the other hand, you still learn, because non -profit is a very special

01:13:44.800 - 01:14:00.120

unique industry. But we are still part of this whole community, whole society. So the leadership training will offer me the opportunity to interact with leaders

01:14:00.270 - 01:14:14.090

from business sector, okay. Yeah, so I, I actually, um, the American Leadership Forum and the Harvard, you know, business- school training, I personally, you know, benefit from these two

01:14:15.100 - 01:14:27.930

trainings tremendously. Okay. And so how do you, um, balance work and family life? Um, that’s a, uh, a learned behavior, I mean, or, I have to learn that.

01:14:28.330 - 01:14:41.780

Earlier years, I have to say, you know, being a first-generation immigrant, you know, my two boys basically went to child care, daycare, okay. And then later on, um, when they, you know, move into the

01:14:41.820 - 01:14:56.860

teenager age, our family moved too, right, because my husband’s work. And uh, we had some challenging years there, and uh, I actually, it’s not doing very well on that aspect, but I learned.

01:14:57.250 - 01:15:11.800

I always say it’s like, “Yeah, I may not know better the first time, but, you know, after certain challenges,” and I say, “Wow, I do need to find the balance.” And then, not just with the family, but also with

01:15:11.900 - 01:15:26.790

myself, my health, you know. So to me, um, it’s a work in progress, even now. And now I’m a grandma. I look at my granddaughter, I was thinking, “Wow, when my

01:15:26.960 - 01:15:43.990

boys were that age, I didn’t have the time and the energy to attend to them as much as I—I am doing now to my granddaughter.” But at the same time, I look at my grown children, they are parents now,

01:15:43.990 - 01:15:59.700

right, so I say, “They actually had the luxury, or the uh, better planner.” They are taking care of their children, giving them the adequate care and attention, much better than I did.

01:16:00.330 - 01:16:13.530

So I always don’t think I passed that one. And I have to be very honest. But I can tell you, I learned. So um, so being CEO, being female CEO,

01:16:14.310 - 01:16:32.200

some of them I really, you know, I haven’t seen too many of us that actually did that, you know. We say, okay. I probably did my job at the CCC at a pretty high ranking, but then not with my

01:16:32.360 - 01:16:47.720

two children, but fortunately, uh, we remain very close, okay, and um, they’re very understanding. Boys, they don’t, you know, they don’t show too much affection, but looking back, I

01:16:47.770 - 01:17:01.180

realize that they actually, they were very supportive, and they were very understanding, yeah. I didn’t know at that time, I just feel like every day, okay, I have to rush them and send and drop them off at the

01:17:01.180 - 01:17:13.610

daycare, and they’re— sometimes the last one to be pick up because I, you know, I have something at the office I have to finish, um, I still remember when I picked them

01:17:13.790 - 01:17:27.670

up, if they were the last one at the daycare, how sad they look, okay, so, um…that’s why I have to give thanks, you know, um, to my family, because even though it was not the ideal

01:17:28.110 - 01:17:40.840

situation, at least, um, they were not mad at me. That’s why I say they were very supportive and understanding. Yeah. And so where did you meet your husband? Um, actually met in Ann Arbor.

01:17:41.780 - 01:17:51.170

The interesting thing is we came from the same small town, okay, but we didn’t know each other then. And he was a little bit older than I am. Um, we—he

01:17:51.780 - 01:18:06.550

was in architecture school, I went to education college. But we live in that huge student dorm, okay, so we run into each other, and then of course, when you were foreign students, okay, you

01:18:06.660 - 01:18:17.050

always bound very quick when people coming from your hometown. So that’s how I met my husband. Okay. And what year did you marry? Uh, ’81. Yeah.

01:18:17.390 - 01:18:31.500

Okay. Um, and so with, like, CCC trying to bridge East and West, did you also try to do that like, at home, when you guys were living in the U. S.? Like, what kind of—did you still celebrate like, Chinese traditions, like New Year’s?

01:18:32.390 - 01:18:49.810

We always do, and I think that’s the part of being an immigrant. Um, we can never forget or let go of our roots, right. So it’s always a big deal. And I remember, way back thirty-some years

01:18:49.810 - 01:19:02.750

ago, um, you know, making an international phone call is so expensive, right. We always save and then we make sure we would call both parents, okay, on New Year’s Eve. And the line

01:19:02.870 - 01:19:17.390

would be so busy and you just keep dialing, um, but that’s the most important thing. And of course, you know, with not -so-good cooking skills, I still tried to make dumplings because, you

01:19:17.390 - 01:19:29.410

know, my parents are from northern China so—and then now-a-days, you know, when I come to my house for Lunar New Year dinner, they know I’m gonna make dumplings. I don’t

01:19:30.400 - 01:19:42.550

care whether they taste good or not, okay, but that’s just part of the, uh, celebration, and that’s part of our roots, right. Um, yes we do, um, I actually

01:19:42.830 - 01:19:56.320

did send my two boys to Chinese school until they finish high school. And um, they appreciate more and more, communicating or talk to me in Chinese now, because I guess the globalization,

01:19:57.850 - 01:20:11.580

and also when you reach certain age, you really appreciate your mother culture. Um, so actually now, um, we try, we still keep the habit

01:20:11.660 - 01:20:24.060

of, you know, communicate or just, you know, conversation in Chinese, and I talk to my granddaughter in Chinese as much as I can. Okay. So how would you identify yourself?

01:20:25.390 - 01:20:43.970

Um, I would say I’m just an Asian American. I mean, even, I see myself as a Texan, given the years I spent here in Texas, much longer than in my hometown, right. Why, because number

01:20:44.110 - 01:21:01.350

one, I actually did study English at a young age, right. And then, I was in human services. Then, we go through globalization. All these gonna make us all global citizens.

01:21:01.870 - 01:21:14.790

But it’s your roots, your heritage. I always carry my last name as Lin or my maiden name as Hua. And um, the

01:21:14.790 - 01:21:33.840

beauty of Chinese culture, it’s almost like even though I’m not a Chinese, if I get exposed or learn the Chinese culture at a young age, you love it. Yeah. And that’s why, you know, um, I, I

01:21:33.840 - 01:21:48.500

always see myself as a, you know, Chinese American. Yeah. And, but very balanced, very global way, yeah, mhm. Mhm. Juno, did you have any questions?

01:21:48.500 - 01:22:00.020

Okay, um, so do you still have family in Taiwan or China? Uh, I have three brothers, right. Um, they all spend time in Taiwan.

01:22:00.380 - 01:22:13.180

One of them spend half of the time in San Francisco because he retired as a businessman so he has a place in San Francisco, but my other two brothers, um, they’re in Taiwan. Because I come over here as

01:22:13.180 - 01:22:27.110

a foreign student, yeah. So in the beginning were your parents supportive of you coming to the States to study? They actually did, they did, and more than other parents. Basically like I said, my dad was

01:22:27.110 - 01:22:42.410

in the military, and I came over to study, you know, graduate degree, right. Uh, back home when I go to public high school and university, it was free. Coming here, I basically used my dad’s

01:22:42.630 - 01:22:58.930

retirement fund. So—and I was the only girl, right, and I have to say my dad just loved me, okay. More than my brothers, yeah. Um, because they believe as well, my mom…she always tell

01:22:59.040 - 01:23:14.560

me, “You can always be what you want to be, don’t be intimidated just because you’re a girl.” I guess for her, you know, she also had three brothers, okay, and she’s the only girl, but she has to go through the civil war.

01:23:15.220 - 01:23:29.610

Um, he move with the school, so he was like—what we call boarding school, that was not a, like an elite boarding school, it’s like basically their parent couldn’t go with them, and the school just took them as refugees, right. So they call themselves, um,

01:23:29.850 - 01:23:46.700

displaced students, okay. Um, he basically grew up without his parents being, uh, around her, but then she also, uh, learned how to be independent, um, so she always reminded me, like, you, you

01:23:47.100 - 01:23:57.220

can always pursue what you want to be. And um, you know, you may feel intimidated sometimes by males. Don’t, don’t let them, you know.

01:23:57.620 - 01:24:08.120

I remember my mom always told me this since I was little, yeah. And so what kind of hobbies do you have? … righ?

01:24:09.790 - 01:24:28.100

Believe it or not, okay, I love to watch black-and-white movies. Yeah, I mean, still, you know, being an English major, even when I was a teenager, it played a part in that. We—I did, I did study Shakespeare like I said, so I like to watch

01:24:28.170 - 01:24:40.210

those um, Jane Austen movies, or those black- and-white, and, and I of course, um…earlier years I do play a lot of sports, okay, but now I do gardening.

01:24:41.440 - 01:24:57.390

And my best hobby has been home with my grandkids. Um, so what advice would you have for Asian Americans, or like, um, recent immigrants to the United States?

01:24:57.390 - 01:25:16.710

Um, it’s a good, you know, it’s a good question in a way, because now, you know, just this year, we didn’t really have a very friendly immigration policy, right. But, put that aside, okay, I actually remember, it’s a choice for us to go

01:25:18.210 - 01:25:30.540

to a different country, right, to come to America. It’s a choice, back in the 80s, because we’re not refugees, okay. To certain, um, people, that’s not a choice, that’s their survival way.

01:25:31.050 - 01:25:45.160

But to us, it’s a choice to pursue a dream. So if we decide to come to America, you do need to know why you want to come to America. If you are here to

01:25:45.290 - 01:26:03.400

pursue a dream, you need to have the realization that nothing is equal or fair. But you earned it. So immigrants, we do, we do need to um,

01:26:04.300 - 01:26:18.480

you know, have that preparation. Unless your family actually has—is a good providing source, right. Otherwise, um, from my personal

01:26:18.830 - 01:26:30.520

experience, basically, we need to earn what we have, okay. Or what you want to have. However, because the

01:26:30.780 - 01:26:46.900

time has changed, now than 30, 40 years ago, you have to say the technology, okay, has changed a lot of things. Asian Americans, okay, if they come to America because

01:26:47.750 - 01:27:00.960

of their talents, I know that they will make it to the level they deserve, right, much easier. But at the same time, I do

01:27:00.960 - 01:27:14.940

want to make sure that they appreciate that. Yeah, because nothing, you know, comes easy, honestly, yeah. Okay. Um, we are running out of time because we want to

01:27:14.940 - 01:27:27.480

respect your time, but one last question we have is, um, what would you consider your greatest accomplishment so far in life? Um, well, I would say I really enjoy

01:27:28.360 - 01:27:43.440

being part of the human services. I’m just, it gives me so much joy to see how a family or an individual break through, okay, through their

01:27:43.500 - 01:28:00.630

difficulties or hard times because the services we’re able to provide. By me, okay, or by the agency. So all the 30-plus years really are my and, you know, my practition in

01:28:00.820 - 01:28:12.370

the human services is to see people grow. Yeah. Okay. Um, so is there anything else you would like to add that we haven’t asked? No.