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Hi, today is June 2, we're here with Brandon Harris for the Houston Asian American Archive. First, I want to ask how are you doing? I'm doing okay.

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There's a lot going on with like the pandemic and like, the protests that have been going on. So my mind's kind of like all over the place right now. How are you doing?

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Good. Same. So eventful. Yeah. But okay, I'll get started, um, when and where were you born? So I was born in Houston, Texas, in—on October 16, 1995.

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Okay. And how would you describe the household that you grew up in? My household was very–very traditionally American. I think my parents they wanted to like, help me assimilate better into like society and like with my

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peers at school, so I think my upbringing has been pretty American. But I also think it enforces the idea of being Vietnamese and like kind of being an

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outcasted by growing up in like a suburban, predominantly white neighborhood and enforces like the idea of what it means to be an American. Yeah, so...

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Yeah, can you describe the neighborhood that you grew up in? Yeah, I grew up in a neighborhood in northwest Houston. A lot of my peers in school were–were white there was like a typical middle class, residential

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area. Yeah, it was a but it was relatively close to like the Chinatown of Houston, which I think was a good spot for us and for my upbringing, 'cause we

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would always go eat like lunches with the family in Chinatown, and we still had that connection to our Asian heritage, but also this American heritage, I guess. Yeah.

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Yeah. So do you have like any memorable experiences like going to Chinatown, like did you go like every month or so? Yeah, we would, we would go pretty often. I would say like normally we would go to church and

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then go either to Chinatown or like a Vietnamese restaurant nearby. I also worked at a Vietnamese restaurant as my first job too, so we would also eat there as well. Yeah, that's cool. Yeah, like yeah, same same background as me honestly.

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Have you heard of the Woodlands? Yeah, I worked in the Woodlands, after high school. Bartended out there. Is that where you're from? Yeah, that's where I'm from but like yeah, like all the

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Asians go to like Houston Chinatown, that area like, you know, for all the Asian stuff. That's where it's at! Yeah. But yeah, like in school and stuff, did you feel any like conflicts with that

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your identity brought you like, while you were, like growing up in the American school system and stuff? Yeah, I remember being in like elementary school, and like, my mom would pack me like Vietnamese food for lunch and then other people will be like, what is that?

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Like why are you eating that? And like, it really, like made me insecure about being Vietnamese. So then I like a little brat that I am was like, I want Lunchables.

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I want to be like my friend. And looking back, I'm just like, “Wow,” now I'm like, I want Vietnamese food all the time. And then like, I think, like in school

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as well, they don't really teach about the Vietnam War. Like I think growing up I remember like, maybe it was like one lesson or like one class period. And they don't really like touch on it.

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So I think that's another thing that the school system tends to like forget about in society as well. Mm hmm. Do you remember like, if that that lesson like did you

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remember feeling like, everyone like staring at you or something or like, it was accurate or not? I think people were just like, oh yeah, like aren't you Vietnamese? Yeah, were your

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family's like refugees? Oh my god. Yeah. Um, yeah. When you were growing up, what values were you raised with? I think like when I was raised, I feel like we had a very, like, matriarchal

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family. So it was like, my grandma was like, the number one ruler and like, enforced us to be like, I guess they kind of enforced that like, you need to be a doctor.

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You need to be a lawyer, someone—growing up now that I'm at an adult and not a doctor or a lawyer and , an artist instead, I think that now that I'm getting more like, response to my art and like, has made like a, has made

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like I guess like a following or like people are interested in it. I think they're more realizing that the, my voice is important and like also sharing their

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voice to through me is important. Yeah, that's good to hear. Yeah. Um, so how did you become interested in creating art? In high school, I've always been like creative, creative growing up and like,

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I always was like drawing and making art. In high school is when I started taking photography classes. And it kind of just

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like stuck and I actually just finished my degree, my BFA program at University of Houston with the concentration of photography and digital media, but it wasn't until-thanks! I haven't graduated yet because I still need like science class.

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I was like, I'm not good at science. I'm like this way. But my program is—I'm finished with it. And I just finished my thesis project.

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But I—yeah like, for me now, because when I first started taking photographs, it wasn't personal or wasn't deep or didn't really, like, mean something special to me. And it was when I did a photo series on my

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grandmother, that it kind of struck this chord in me like because I really didn't know their story growing up. I don't—they didn't really tell me. It's not something that they talked about.

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So after that, hanging out with my grandma, she kind of told me and like kind of like, showed me a little bit more and like I'm kind of like in the process of un, un—I guess like digging up

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this history that they don't talk about through my work. Now that's strictly what I focus on now. That's cool. Yeah. So, um, what like—so would your grandma inspire your–your artwork or like

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what inspires your art? I think it definitely is inspired by my grandma and my family's personal histories and like their experi-experience as war refugees.

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And then, now it's kind of like taking that knowledge that I've learned from them and like applying it to like current refugee crisis or like, what's going on in the world right now. Because like it's still happening.

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Like, it's not the it's not the Vietnamese refugees but there's so many other refugees that are still going through the same process. Yeah, yeah, for sure. So, you mentioned like that photo series with your grandma is that when you

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kind of started digging into like themes like the immigrant experience and the Vietnamese diaspora? Or like, have you always been like kind of thinking about that through your art? That I was actually like the starting point of like this whole project

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and like my whole work. Yeah, like, it was like, after I got that knowledge I kind of like went on like a, like a spiraling, like, emotional roller coaster and like, kind of like, unpacking–unpacking

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all this like trauma and like, what came and what was the outcome of all this? And I—and then after that, I just been doing a lot of research on the diaspora. And just like focusing on like our community here in Houston,

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because it's like so big and, and there's so much of us and there's not many—there's not many studies that focus on the south with the Vietnamese refugees, it's mostly focused in like California.

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So I want to like provide a voice for the people here, which is like the third largest Vietnamese population outside of Vietnam. Yeah. And yeah, you mentioned like contemporary issues surrounding like refugees

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and contributing a voice from like the southern side. So what do you want to express through your art? And in what ways do you think art is a channel of like expressioning—expressing

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yourself and activism? I think all art is activism. So with my work, I want to like provide like a voice for these refugees and

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also like talk about the issues and like, being an immigrant, being a refugee such as like, even applying for like citizenship. And like, I have like friends who are like, Hispanic who, whose

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mom can't—who's been like living here and like working here for so long, but hasn't had the opportunity to become a citizenship. And they're—all they're doing is like providing to our economy.

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So it's like there's so many different things. And I—a lot of my work now I have been focusing a lot on like labor and like the play that come like—what like how refugees are so impact

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impacted by war and how like—how the labor that they do just to be here. And like I've been focusing a lot on like nails and like, how like most Vietnamese refugees come and they work in nails, including my family.

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When they first had like a business in Houston, they had a nail and like hair shop, which they still own, but now they just do hair. Because of like the chemicals.

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And it's like, easier. Yeah, so can you talk about how your family ended up in Houston? Yeah, so, my family's from a small village outside of Da Nang, Vietnam. And after the war, like in

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1975, when the war was like about to end, they heard the Vietnam—Viet Cong was coming down from the north to the south, and that's when they were like, okay, we need to get out of here. My

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grandpa was also like in the South Vietnamese Army. So we they–they buried a lot of their documentations and photographs, concealing their identity in case they were to get caught or like, found

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on their journey, but they went from where they lived, and then they traded all their gold and silver for a spot on a fishing boat in Vũng Tàu, which was the closest beach to Ho Chi Minh. So they traveled their way down and got on the boat, which

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was going to take them to Ho Chi Minh, which was like, where they heard that the Navy ships were there and they were taking refugees to America. So they were on the boat for like, about a week and

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my mom describes it as being like, packed as like sardines like people were just throwing up on each other like, Yeah, like going to the restroom on each other like there's no food, and once they got to

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Ho Chi Minh, they got onto a Navy boat, but on the boat, they were like, you either have a choice to like throw out all your—all your belongings, so we can fit more refugees or we're going to turn the or we're gonna like

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turn the boat back to Ho Chi Minh. And you can stay in Vietnam so everyone on the boat decided that they wanted to go to America so they literally had like what they had on their backs.

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And that was it. They were on the boat for about a week, I believe. And then they took them to Guam for like an army camp for–for a couple more weeks until they

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knew where to bring these refugees. And then they put them, my family on a plane to Fort Indiantown Gap in Pennsylvania, which was a refugee camp. And then they were looking for a sponsor for my

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family. So they found one, which was this doctor in New York, Dr. Gage, who took my family and my like, a family—my like extended family too. And 19- and they were there until 1978, which,

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then my family like, were able to—with the help of the Catholic Church, get a job, learn English, raise money for them to move out on their own one—because they heard that our relatives were in Houston.

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That's when they decided to make the move for themselves and move to Houston to be closer to other relatives. Which they—when they first were in Houston, they– they lived near in an apartment complex, like a one bedroom apartment complex.

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That's near where I live now on my own. So it's like full circle. Yeah. And then they move to

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a Humble, Tex—Humble like Houston. And then they all grew up and went their separate ways. Yeah, like, as you said earlier, like so much like labor and work like such a long journey to get here, you know? And what do you think your parents and your

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families experiences? How do they impact you or like, to you, what does the identity as a child of war refugees mean? I think like, I think trauma is impact–impacts

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me and like is ingrained in my DNA. And like, I think growing up as a child of war refugees, you see things that and like, you see how these elders react to things and how they are.

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And that's like their trauma, even like, I didn't notice it, like growing up. But now as an adult, I notice it as like trauma. Like I remember being young, and my mom wouldn't eat until me and my sister ate.

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And I didn't think that was like weird until growing up now. And I was like, that's probably like, a sign of trauma and like, how, like war is like, you have to make sure your kids are fed before you're fed.

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So things like that, like little things. Yeah, yeah, for sure. And it definitely impacts me now, and it's on my mind all the time. And like how I am too.

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Yeah, like, I'm not sure if you're already familiar with this work, but I recently read The Best We Could Do by Thi Bui and she relives like a large fire. She like talks about her family's experience and the Vietnamese Diaspora. And she reli- she relives a large fire in her neighborhood and

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like her first instinct was to immediately grab like, her official state documents and then just leave the apartment without like caring about any of her other possessions. And she calls this her refugee reflux-reflex.

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So like, are there any moments growing up where you would consider like, due to your family's identity as a refugee? Any moments like that? Or like, um, like, how has your parent's trauma like affected you?

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I think it was also—I think it was like just growing up and like how like my parents were very like, I guess not like stingy in a bad way but like–like, very cautious with money and like, materialistic goods.

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And like not like, it's like, “Oh, I want this toy at Toys R Us.” Like, “No, you can't have this toy,” and like, I think it's like 'cause not—Being at one point and not having not like not having anything and no

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belongings. I think there's a point now where it's like, we—even though we still we have money and we have the opportunity if we wanted to buy this. We don't want it, we don't know what could happen next if

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we need to, like run out and like, use this money to... escape the country or something. Yeah, for sure. Like financial like security versus like insecurity and all that. Yeah. Exactly. Yeah. And so, you mentioned like

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intergenerational trauma and so how do you think your artwork helps you like ex—process your family's intergenerational trauma? Yeah. So like throughout this whole process, especially with my grandma,

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when I spend time with her, it like I don't think she has even heard her own story for herself. Like, she knows the story, but she hasn't, like unpacked it and like, let it out.

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And I think throughout my work and include—the inclusion of her is a sense of healing for her and healing for me, and understanding my own identity and where I come from. So I think that intergenerational trauma and like being

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tied so closely to it, and being like the first generation that was born here, has definitely impacted my work a lot. And I and she's been at like, every show I've been like, she's been on all my talks everything and like, she's

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like cried at them before and like, I think she she wants her story to be known and like, wants this—wants our family, like wants people to know what they've gone through but doesn't have like the voice or the language to even

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say it. Mmhmm, yeah. So do you think the mainstream portrayal of migration specifically like the Vietnamese diaspora is accurate?

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Or like what do you hope for people to understand more about what happened? So I—I did a photo series called My Life Magazine, because a lot of when I was researching in the beginning phase of my work and my practice, all like the information

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and like, all the documentation was by Americans. And I was looking at these life magazines, and they always portray the Vietnamese people as like weak, as like poor and dirty and

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like hopeless and like the America there was like a white savior complex in all these imagery. So in the series that I did, I took these images, and I projected them and like re-photographed them by inserting myself

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into the projections, kind of like reclaiming this, entire like reclaiming the history and taking it out of the hands of these white Americans. Yeah, that's sounds cool.

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Yeah. So what other themes do you primarily explore in your artwork? I know you've already talked a lot about like labor and refugees and the Vietnamese diaspora. But would you want to expand upon that?

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Yeah, another thing that I've been exploring throughout my work is land and like home and homeland and what does home mean? And exp—and in my project, I'm working on now

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I'm exploring like the remains of Vietnamese refugees and like, of the refugees throughout Houston and the Gulf Coast area. And like what remains.

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And even if you look at like Chinatown now, it's kind of almost dilapidated. Like there's like barely any businesses in the Hong Kong Mall still. It's almost like surreal, like, and then like, what's the future like?

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What's gonna happen after that's gone? Because the original Chinatown was in East downtown, where I live now. But then now if you look, go back and look at it, like, there's only

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like, the remnants of the name and like the roofing. So I'm kind of exploring like the traces of the Vietnamese refugees and their, like, migration and where they ended up in Houston right

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now. Yeah, sounds really cool. So, um, so the current project you're working on it's funded by the Houston Art Alliance-Alliance and the Idea Fund. And the English name is Oh Mother Vietnam, We Are Still Here.

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Can you describe some detail about it and what's the Vietnamese name? Or how do you say it? Mẹ Việt Nam ơi, Chúng Con Vẫn Còn đây. Okay, cool. My Vietnamese is like not that great.

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Yeah, still working on Vietnamese. But yeah, the project was actually started when I was researching and I found this photograph of the KKK burning a

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wooden boat that says USS Viet Cong on the side of it in Seabrook, Texas, which is like 20, 25 minutes away from my house. And I was—after I was like, so shocked because I knew that there

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is a lot of like, oppression of Vietnamese refugees, but I didn't know about it being here and like documented here. So I wanted to create a project where I focus on like the resilience of the community here and like

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the tracing the migration and resettlement of Vietnamese refugees and like Houston and Gulf Coast area, so I focused a lot on like Seabrook, Texas and the Gulf Coast. And then I focused on like, East downtown, which is old Chinatown and new Chinatown, and

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Bellaire area. And I focused on like, these village apartment complexes, which were like low income housing for Vietnamese refugees throughout like Southwest Houston.

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And then I focus on my family houses throughout Houston. And in the project I'm collecting wooden boat, I mean wooden pieces from these areas and make— creating a wooden boat that's eight feet long out of these out of this

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found materials from this land and then... I also—because my I just finished the boat for my thesis project. I took like flags of the South Vietnamese and like the current Vietnamese flag, and I like cut them into pieces and

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then woven them so sides of the boats are like, woven together and like held together by thread. And throughout this process I'm going to be filling the boat with land and soil from these areas and

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pulling this wooden boat throughout these areas, creating a performance. And then when I plan to exhibit the show, I want to do a performance where me and my grandma enter

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the space with the boat with filled with the soil. And in the soil it will be photographs and documents of my family's migration, kind of reenacting what they did when they escaped Vietnam and we're going to

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unbury those together and then plant plants native to Vietnam in the US soil. So it's kind of like, funerary, but also kind of like talking about land, talking about

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labor, exploring the ideas of migration and like and like always migrating and like where's home? Sense of home. Thank you. I'm super excited for it.

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This is like my biggest project I've ever worked on. And I'm so happy and thankful for funding and the support from Houston Art Alliance and the Idea Fund. They just been so

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helpful throughout the whole process. Yeah, that's good to hear. So how do you think this project addresses contemporary issues of migration? I think for the projects, a lot of people

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can relate to migration through the lens of the Vietnamese diaspora and it's–it's like a history that is, that is being repeated but through a different lens? You know, so I think hopefully, the

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project will speak to the current refugees now and like even I think it could also speak to like detention centers and like, like Mexican immigrants and like all the people that are locked up by ICE, and like their struggle, and I hope

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that my–my family's history and my family's migration can be relatable, or like at least give them a sense of hope for their future. Yeah, for sure. So, how have you found people's

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responses to your past artwork? And how do you think like people who aren't familiar with the Vietnamese diaspora can also relate? The overall response has been pretty well and well received throughout the community in Houston.

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I think one issue that I see a lot in the Houston art scene is, it's so, it's it's like ran by white Americans and like they typically prefer like to uplift their

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own. And there's not really a lot of representation of Vietnamese artists or like Vietnamese refugee art or art that deals with trauma in–in the art scene. Like, I've been lucky enough to show my work throughout

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Houston, but I feel like it's definitely been a journey to get my name out there to get people to even like look at a portfolio and like to understand it, I feel, I feel like they–they can understand it to only a certain

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level. Like these people and power at these institutions like art museums and art galleries that don't understand, that never had the struggle. Right. Mm hmm. Yeah.

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So how do you think, like the audience who haven't had similar experiences can also relate? Um, 'cause like, you know, like art is like universal and stuff.

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So, how do you? Yeah, so yeah, what do you think? I think that art is universal and it's, it can be understand without words, you know.

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Like, you can look at something and have an emotion or have a feeling attached to it. And also, I'm–I'm at a point that I also don't think it's my job or responsibility to–to explain this or like to–to–to

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teach people like there's so many sources of knowledge out there we have the internet for a reason. It's not our jobs to be a teacher to these people. If they want to understand it, they should do the

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research. And that goes like not only for like Vietnamese art, but like for like black art, for like Latino art like we don't have to— And like this is another thing like being in an institution that because of my

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school at U of H is predominantly white professors who, who don't–either don't get it, or they tokenize it, you know, I'm like, “I don't want to be a token.

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I don't want to be like your pity party, like aww.” So like, there– there's like a point in my, like, art career at universities in these institutions where I'm like, I'm not going to show you anything.

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I'm just going to do my work. And if you don't understand it, then you don't understand it. I remember there was one critique where the professor was like, I

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my—I can't understand your grandma. It was a video of my grandma like, telling the story. And she–she was already doing enough by speaking in English. And I was like, I like she's, she's doing

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so much speaking English. I'm not going to put subtitles on it to make your life easier. It shouldn't—Like this, this stuff is traumatic, like, I'm not going to accommodate the white person, so they can get it.

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Like she's speaking English already. The language that you already know, why should I make it easier for you? Right. Yeah. Like the school system should at least teach us better in the beginning, you know.

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There's like many instances where yeah. Exactly. Ah, yeah, institutions. Yeah, so like Houston is so diverse, but you mentioned how like, art and like art institutions, those

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spaces are mainly like dominated by white people. How do you think like–like, why do you think Asian Americans haven't really had their voice represented in the art scene? I think, I think it's derived from how,

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how art is has always been white or has always been, like stolen from other other cultures, other other different histories. Like the whole art museum is just literally stolen art from around the world, if you think about it, and I think

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also it's the like, it's it's also like, our generation now the like, Vietnamese people just got to America like 40 years ago. So it's their kids who

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are, who are the new voices. Who are who were so lucky enough to have the opportunity to have an education, to go to school.

00:32:05.830 - 00:32:19.390

So I think now–now more than ever, like Vietnamese artists are getting more vocal and are getting more out there and being–being wanted to be heard because now we have the

00:32:19.390 - 00:32:36.940

chance like our parents were working just to survive and now we're here and we can thrive. Yeah, for sure. So what would you want the Houston art scene to be like in the future? I think like overall, I think the Houston

00:32:37.380 - 00:32:55.010

art scene has a, has, does have institutions that are really great like Project Row Houses, DiverseWorks. Like these institutions—they—there's, they're growing and like they're showing different works by different people from all different

00:32:55.010 - 00:33:11.430

backgrounds. I think it's mostly the bigger institutions that have, that are more strict and like, mostly show like, all these white artists from all over that went to like Ivy League schools.

00:33:11.880 - 00:33:27.250

But Houston has such a big, a big art community and we have such amazing art that we just need a space that will show them. So I hope in the future, we have more spaces and the directors to

00:33:27.250 - 00:33:42.870

be more diverse to show more diverse work, hopefully, which is like change is going to take time. For sure. But I see it changing as I'm currently making work and like I'm happy that I

00:33:44.000 - 00:34:02.000

think this generation now is more vocal and like takes more of a stance for bettering and for change. And do you think that Asian, the Asian American artist community is in a similar situation with other

00:34:02.750 - 00:34:19.500

people of color, or do you think that other people of color like black and Latino artists are in a different situation? I–I think we're all in the same situation. But we all have different avenues and different ways of

00:34:19.760 - 00:34:35.110

approaching the situation too. And like, growing their own community, like, I feel like Asian American artists don't really have like, like a community together. Or it's or it's either separated

00:34:35.110 - 00:34:48.650

like, different ranges of our different ranges of people like Vietnamese artists, the Filipino artists, like the Chinese artists, but I don't think there's like a community but that's all together.

00:34:49.020 - 00:35:00.930

Mm hmm. Yeah. So what is your perspective on labels? Like some artists, they don't think of themselves as say like a Chinese artist or like they identify themselves as like an

00:35:01.000 - 00:35:14.300

international artist, so what is your perspective on being labeled as like an Asian American artist, or anything? I–I kind of reclaimed it like, at first I didn't

00:35:15.080 - 00:35:29.980

because—and another and another thing is like my name is very American: Brandon Harris. So I recently been going by Brandon Tho Harris, which is my middle name. And my dad when he came, he took his stepdads

00:35:30.570 - 00:35:44.240

last name making my last name Harris. But I also feel like that's it that's like, that's like giving back and like a simulation itself. So, for like for me, I'm

00:35:44.420 - 00:36:01.040

proud to be like Asian American and like a Vietnamese artist and I think it's important to like, say that because it's not often heard of. Like there's maybe like–like a handful of like major

00:36:01.490 - 00:36:15.440

like Vietnamese artists out there. Other than that, like, everyone else is just like a working artist. For sure. Yeah. So I know you mentioned your grandma a lot. Would you say she's been like a role

00:36:15.440 - 00:36:26.060

model for you or she's like impacted your life a lot? Yeah, my grandma. My grandma is definitely a role model to me. She's–she's just so brave and so

00:36:26.060 - 00:36:42.490

strong. She, when she escaped the war, she had like, four kids on her running to like the beach. And they all like ranged from like two years old to 10 years old. And like her whole journey, and she even like was

00:36:42.590 - 00:36:55.010

teaching people how to like shoot machine guns and in Vietnam like during the war like she's such a, she's such a strong character and like, she's vocal too.

00:36:57.470 - 00:37:13.050

Yeah. Okay. So beyond your own artwork, how do you think your identity has affected your career? Or like any other aspects of life? I think, I think my identity is definitely informing my career,

00:37:13.210 - 00:37:27.610

my career and my artist's practice. Like I—growing up, I kind of was not like, I kind of wanted to assimilate, I guess, because I was being around the people that I am, that I was around.

00:37:28.180 - 00:37:44.850

So I think now, I'm impacted by my identity more and like kind of reclaiming this, this identity and especially like now, I think it's important as Asian Americans to stand

00:37:44.850 - 00:37:58.320

with the Black Lives Matters movement, because like even back, even the history back then, like Black Lives Matters always fought for like Asian Americans and like the Black Panthers and the Asian

00:37:58.320 - 00:38:12.960

Americans all stood side by side. So I think like this current protests that are going on, it's so important for us, Asian Americans to stand in solidarity with the Black Lives Matters, especially in Houston since

00:38:13.660 - 00:38:25.280

George Floyd was from Houston. Mm hmm. Yeah, for sure. So, um, I've seen like a lot of people my age, like, advocating a lot to their

00:38:25.280 - 00:38:37.180

family and like online. So what do you think about the younger generation like of Asian Americans? Like I know, you've talked about how you think we're more vocal and stuff. But yeah, would you want to

00:38:37.270 - 00:38:51.170

expand on that? Yeah, I think, I think there's like two groups of Asian Americans in this generation. There's like, the ones that are like, the ones that are like, not vocal

00:38:51.510 - 00:39:07.380

and like, just almost like, it's almost like be like, my like, I forgot what it's called, the model minority. Like there's definitely some people that like, are very like, like that.

00:39:07.420 - 00:39:23.570

But there's also some people that are very vocal and very, like, passionate and want to make a statement. So I guess it just depends on the person. Right. Yeah. And yeah to switch gears a bit, I want to talk about

00:39:23.740 - 00:39:37.250

the recent impact of COVID-19. And like the way with anti-Asian harassment and xenophobia, what is your perspective on this? Huh, yeah, the–the pandemic has been so insane.

00:39:38.020 - 00:39:49.230

The first month I didn't leave my house other to get like groceries and stuff. Especially like seeing on like the news and like, people being harassed and attacked for being Asian.

00:39:49.340 - 00:40:04.100

And it's just, it's just been so psycho. So psychotic. And I don't know, I think, I think there's a lot of Asian Americans that are, that are quiet or like, try to like back down

00:40:04.810 - 00:40:21.200

from it and like not to instigate it. But I think it's definitely important to like stand up to this. For sure. Yeah. I've seen like a lot of like Asian Americans saying like, “Oh, we just have to work

00:40:21.200 - 00:40:40.260

harder to show that we're American as well like to…” Yeah. Like we don't owe anyone anything to be American. Like and America was founded on stolen land. Like, we're just as American as everyone else.

00:40:41.670 - 00:40:55.390

And like, it's so frustrating and like, I just, I just just, I just don't get it. And like, and all these people that are complaining about it and like blaming Asians for it.

00:40:55.810 - 00:41:10.220

They're also like, eating Asian food like oh, they love pho. Hmm. They're like, “Oh, I want to get some pho, pho...” Yeah. Oh my god. Yeah. This is like a little off tangent but like recently Asian food

00:41:10.220 - 00:41:21.040

has like I've like taken over the food scene I'd say like a lot in Houston. And what do you think about that? Like, especially like when you're growing up like people would be like “Oh,” like–like

00:41:21.590 - 00:41:36.090

“That's disgusting,” but now it's like so popularized. I think it's more... I think there's some people that are like “Oh,” like “We're cultured,” like “We eat ethnic food or whatever.” But I–I

00:41:36.390 - 00:41:53.700

definitely think it's great that there's–there's an acceptance of like Asian American food and like Vietnamese food and I think, Vietnamese—There's so much Vietnamese restaurants in Houston. So I think it's almost like, it's almost like a sense of pride that they're

00:41:53.700 - 00:42:04.680

still here. They're, they're doing what they did when they first got here, and they're still around and they will be around forever. Like, yeah, all the new restaurants are like, great.

00:42:06.380 - 00:42:19.020

It's like awesome. Right? Love it. Yeah. Back to the current—there's like current anti-Asian sentiment. There's also like police brutality

00:42:19.020 - 00:42:35.010

riots and Black Lives Matter movement. What do you think— I think they go hand in hand. So I was, I was I'm actually going to the Black Lives Matter protests right after this. But I went to one earlier this

00:42:35.330 - 00:42:47.960

week too. And it's just like, it's so important because their struggle is also like our struggle too. Like, yeah, like we are all minorities and we're all faced with the same struggle.

00:42:49.870 - 00:43:02.110

And we all need to stand together and fight. And it's so like, it's so sad like, this has been going on forever and nothing has changed. Like, you can look back to like, the 60s and like the Black Panther.

00:43:02.760 - 00:43:17.230

And they're—the Civil Rights movement, and they're saying the same things that we're saying today. And then like right now, there's like 60,000 Houstonians downtown protesting and it's, it's so important

00:43:17.290 - 00:43:30.010

that we stand together and we—we're not taking this anymore. And, and like when the and especially with like being Asian American and like what we have gone through, we need to show our

00:43:30.090 - 00:43:43.920

solidarity with the Black Lives Matter movement as well and I think that this pandemic issues and the police brutality issues are there. They go hand in hand and like we're all sticking together.

00:43:44.010 - 00:43:52.790

And we all are here and we're vocal and we want change. Yeah. So yeah. How was that? When you were protesting?

00:43:52.790 - 00:44:07.320

How was that like, what did you see? It was—like I've been to other Black Lives Matter protests, but this one definitely stood out and was different. Like normally, we were confined to like the sidewalks and like,

00:44:08.370 - 00:44:18.260

but this time, I think there is just like such a loud and vocal crowd that they took out, they took over the streets and we were like blocking off traffic.

00:44:18.580 - 00:44:37.060

And like, the police were a little aggressive and like other people like driving were a little aggressive. Like, my friend was almost hit by this truck. Yeah. And then right after it happened, we all just, like started hitting this truck and

00:44:37.060 - 00:44:52.110

hitting their boat that was attached to them. Like, and like people and I don't understand how people are like, “Oh,” like “These riots.” Like, don't— like they shouldn't like break into these like, like these corporations

00:44:52.630 - 00:45:05.110

and yeah. But if you look back in history, revolutions have always been violent. And like, if you don't understand it, then you don't get what they're fighting for then and like what they've gone through.

00:45:05.580 - 00:45:21.590

And so yeah, it's definitely and I also see like, especially with George Floyd, like the video there was like an Asian man. Who was, yeah, who was standing there and not doing anything and not acting.

00:45:21.590 - 00:45:36.400

So I think it's important that our Asian American community stand in solidarity with them to show them like we do care. Like, it's not. Like he might be a cop, but like, who cares about cops?

00:45:36.400 - 00:45:52.970

They fucking suck. Yeah, I think like, it's a, I think it's like, what's unique about this is that or there's many things but like, it's an opportunity for a lot of people to like, talk to their families who are like maybe like older generation, especially...

00:45:53.050 - 00:46:06.400

Because there's a lot of like anti-blackness in these older generations. And I think I'm not too sure, but I feel like it maybe is derived from like, their background, being in like these countries that there

00:46:06.400 - 00:46:21.060

weren't any black people in. So I think when they came to America, like they see this and it's foreign to them. But I think it's definitely it's–it's our job to teach them this.

00:46:21.870 - 00:46:37.570

Mm hmm. Yeah. And like the whole, like, model minority myth being like, turned against Asians, like, turn them like against like black Americans as well. Exactly. Like and like I don't I just don't understand like,

00:46:37.570 - 00:46:51.580

it's like their struggle is so important. They've helped our struggle so much as well. So, we just all have to sit together and do something. And I think now it's, it's, something's happening like

00:46:51.710 - 00:47:07.270

it's different. I feel like we've been, we've been through this police brutality so much that like enough is enough. Like I think people who didn't protest like Trayvon Martin, like those, like the people now are finally

00:47:07.270 - 00:47:22.720

understanding because how vocal the community is now. Mm hmm Sure. Like, I know like, I mean, yeah, a lot of Asian Americans have been very vocal. But then you also see some Asian Americans who are like, “Oh, black Americans didn't

00:47:22.720 - 00:47:34.270

stand up for us during COVID,” even though that's not really true. And what do you think about that? Yeah, I just think, I think, I think 'cause what–what

00:47:35.690 - 00:47:50.440

we went through during COVID wasn't as. It— like not to like discredit what we've gone through during COVID. But it—I don't think it compares to like the injustice that they've gone through, like, and how much

00:47:50.700 - 00:48:04.490

injustice that African Americans have gone through, like, like us as Asian Americans, like, if we're walking down the street, we're not, we're not going to get stopped most of the time, you know, like, we're not going to be like,

00:48:05.050 - 00:48:15.930

antagonized and we're not and like most of the times we're not going to be like, attacked by a cop, Right. It's like different situations, I think.

00:48:16.010 - 00:48:30.300

Yeah, it's like a different, it's like a whole different situation. So, like, when when the whole COVID happened, like, it wasn't as bad, like, as other other races has gone through.

00:48:30.960 - 00:48:46.040

And I think that's also like the minor—like the minority myth as well. Because I think white America perceives us as like submissive and like perceives us as like yeah

00:48:47.150 - 00:49:00.420

as submissive like we're not—like we're just going to like be compliant to everything. Yeah, like non vocal. Yeah. So, um, how do you think the art

00:49:00.420 - 00:49:15.080

scene will be impacted by COVID-19? And marked by like black lives matter movement. Yeah. So I think like right now, a lot of shows and exhibitions were canceled or like they're moving

00:49:15.480 - 00:49:33.520

to an online platform, which I think the online platform is good, because it provides art to people who aren't able to see art, typically or like gives them a bigger platform to showcase art throughout the world.

00:49:35.300 - 00:49:51.050

I don't know how the art scene will recover. I know like a lot of institutions rely on like exhibitions and like art sales to stay afloat. But without this, we're kind of all like, wondering and like,

00:49:51.920 - 00:50:04.550

I guess we'll just have to wait and find out. But yeah, like, it's hard. It's–it's hard for them and I hope that they make a recovery, which I think they will.

00:50:04.550 - 00:50:19.100

I think they've, there's a lot of donations coming in during this time right now for the art scene. And a lot of generosity from other people and like donors as well. That's good.

00:50:19.340 - 00:50:34.080

Yeah. Um, to backtrack a little bit in recent and upcoming films and TV we've had some pretty great Asian representation like Crazy Rich Asians, The Farewell, Parasite and upcoming, I think

00:50:34.150 - 00:50:45.660

Avatar: the Last Airbender TV show. So in what other areas do you think there has to be greater Asian American representation? Um, definitely art for sure.

00:50:46.780 - 00:51:01.910

I think that music is slowly like becoming one of them too. I think like the popularity of like Asian music is coming in too. Yeah, I don't, I don't know.

00:51:02.060 - 00:51:10.780

I think I think it's just like a slow process. Like, we're slowly—we're, like, Parasite was insane. Such a great movie.

00:51:10.930 - 00:51:22.170

And I was shocked that they won. I was not expecting that. And I think like, I think we're on the track

00:51:22.170 - 00:51:35.060

for progression, but–but it just, it will take time. Yeah, for sure. Um, so that's the end of my questions. Do you have any other thoughts that you

00:51:35.060 - 00:51:50.380

would like to share? Um, no, just keep on the lookout for my show. Hopefully sometime, hopefully we'll be up like, our institutions will be back up and running.

00:51:51.000 - 00:52:06.890

So I can like, find a space to have my show, either the end of the year or next year, hopefully. But yeah, I just hope that it will all work out. Yeah! Okay, well, I hope you're, you'll be well

00:52:07.530 - 00:52:14.260

on your protest today. Be safe. Thank you. It was nice speaking with you. Yeah, same with you.

00:52:18.020 - 00:52:30.500

Cool. Thank you. Yeah. Thank you for taking the time to be interviewed by HAAA. I think Ann will be in conversation with you for like the exhibit that we're trying to do this fall as well.

00:52:30.620 - 00:52:33.720

Okay, cool. Thank you so much. Bye! Bye!