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So today is April 10th, 2020. Um I am interviewing Anne Sung through Zoom for the Houston Asian American Archive. Um So we'll start with the interview with the question where and when were you born? I was born in Midland, Michigan. That's a little town um uh

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where my parents worked for Dow Chemicals. I was born in Midland, Michigan um December 11th, 1978. Um And how would you describe the household you grew up in? My parents um are immigrants to the US. Um My dad is an engineer. My mom was a computer

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scientist. Um They were both working for chemical when I was born. Um And then we moved to Houston very shortly thereafter. Um You know, so it's a solidly middle class family. My, after my younger brother was born, my mom stayed home to raise me. So, um

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it was kind of a typical upbringing in Houston. OK. And so in Houston, which neighborhood did you guys move to? We lived in the West Chase area and what were some of the values that your parents emphasize um in like upbringing, you and your brother? Uh

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My parents emphasized hard work responsibility, uh honesty. Um, and, you know, doing your best to make, to make, um, to make the most of the opportunities that we have in the US. Um, and since your parents are both, like in the stem field, did they ever,

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like, encourage you to go that route? Absolutely. Yes. Um, not, not in the sense of, um, you know, saying I had to study math or science, but just my parents, both of them always um encouraged me to explore math and science to uh um just enjoy

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them. So I grew up as a kid, you know, going to museums, you know, putting together, taking apart stem toys, um you know, playing number games with my, with my mom and my dad. So I just grew up thinking that math and science were fun. Um

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And then what kind of subjects interest interest you in school? Like middle school and high school? Oh, I loved everything. Um I loved, I loved math and science course, although it took me a while to like physics. Um I didn't, it didn't really click for me

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until I had enough math. So I loved it in high school. I was kind of confused by it in middle school. Um And loved biology. Um And I really um at that age in middle school and high school really enjoyed English as well, really enjoyed reading

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books, literature, writing. Um So I think I enjoyed all of my academic subjects. Um, and what high school did you go to? I went to Bel Air High School. Ok, cool. Um, and then did you have any influential teachers or mentors, um, in school growing up?

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Yeah. So many, um, I had so many fabulous teachers, um, you know, all the way through my education. Um, MS Rafay was an elementary math teacher who just made math fun, um, played a lot of games with us in elementary school uh in middle school, MS

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Duan, my seventh grade English teacher, um and Mr Mack, my eighth grade English teacher, you know, they made writers out of us. They really en um encouraged us to just explore that world and make it, make it our own. Um And then in high school I

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had in middle school and high school, I had amazing math and science teachers. Um And, you know, now that I look back on it, it's really amazing the way they dedicated their time, not just in class but out of school too. You know, Miss uh Doctor

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Bean was my high school physics teacher who also coached our Alpha Theta Club, our math club. And he would spend pretty much every weekend with us. Right. Every Saturday we would be out there at a maths tournament somewhere. Um My, uh my biology teacher miss me,

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you know. Same. Right. Like she's an amazing biology teacher. I think most of us knew more biology after freshman year um about our high school than most college students know after their first year of, of college biology. Um and she coached our academic decathlon team. So,

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you know, I was really blessed to have teachers who just encouraged us to find the fun and learning. Um And so I know you mentioned the, what other organizations were you um I guess involved in outside of academics and outside of school. Uh I was a

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swimmer so I was on um my high school swim team uh for many years. Uh I was also a pianist for the choir. Um What else? Um I mentioned academic decathlon, which is kind of a quiz bowl style um club. I think those were the, those

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are the big ones I think I dabbled in, you know, a bunch of clubs, but those are the ones that took up most of my time. Um And then, like, while in high school, did you have like any idea of like, what you wanted to pursue

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in college or like even like a career path that you wanted to go along? I, I thought, um I'd probably end up studying math or physics when I was in high school. I think when I was a little bit younger than that, I thought I wanted

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to be an astronaut, like many kids do. Um when I got older and understood some of the physical rigors of that, I think. Um I think I backed off with that a little bit. Um, so then can you just go on to, like, going on to

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college? Um, can you describe, like, your application process? Um, I guess were you thinking? Oh, I wanna like, leave Houston or like, stuff like that? Oh, I had the opportunity in high school to, to travel with various math teams and, um, I was on the US

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Physics Olympiad team so I had a chance to see places outside of Houston and I couldn't wait to go to college and spend more time um seeing different parts of the, of the country. So I did apply to schools um outside of Houston Rice is my

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backup school. Um And um and then I just applied to um a mix of, of Ivy League schools that had um that were in cities that I thought would be cool places to live. So a couple of the schools in California, Caltech, Stanford um some East

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Coast schools um Harvard Princeton uh mit um oh Duke. So seven schools. Um and then you mentioned that you were on the US um Physics Olympiad team. Um What was that? The traveling team that? Yes, I did. Yeah, my, not the traveling team but my senior

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year I did go to the US Physics Olympiad camp and yeah, OK. What was that like? That was fun. Um It was a chance to, you know, be with students from all over the country who are enthusiastic about physics and math. You know, you have to

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enjoy math in order to be good at physics. Um And I think there's a lot more infrastructure around mathematics if you will um in the US than there is around physics. Um So it was just a neat chance to see how you can take what you

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would learn in school and then apply it in creative situations. And then um what university did you um attend? Eventually? I ended up going to Harvard, they gave me the best financial aid package. Ok. Um So what was I guess your mindset going into Harvard as

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a freshman? Like feelings that you had and like being away from home? Yeah, I was incredibly excited uh to, to be on my own for the first time, um to have a chance to um be with classmates who are my intellectual peers, right? Who would challenge

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me? Really? Um And I found the classes at Harvard just in incredible, like, um like I wanted to just drink it all in, right? Like if I, my mom used to say that, uh you know, you know, and you can't be a professional student, right? But

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I think if I could, I would um I just loved um all of my classes and all of the opportunities to learn and in so many academic areas. Ok. Awesome. Um And then what was the year that you started um at Harvard and 96? 96? Ok.

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And so then you graduated in 2000 as of 2000. OK. Awesome. And then um so you mentioned kind of like the academic culture and that was very enriching. I mean, there are a lot of interesting classes. Um Can you describe like the student culture that you

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had? I don't know if I had a, if I participate in the typical Harvard student culture, right? Like I read in the papers about finals clubs and stuff and I was like, I didn't participate in any of that. I think that's what Harvard called them. Oh,

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what are they called? Like, we didn't have um sororities and fraternities. We had like finals schools, but I never stepped into one when I was in college. So I think I missed all of that. Um You know, I ran around with the math and science nerds

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and, and um gosh, what about the student culture? Um You know, students at Harvard are incredibly active, right? Always um you know, creating new extracurriculars. Um So one of the neat things I had the chance to do when I was at Harvard was um one of

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my, a few of my good friends. Um and I had participated in the Rice University Math Tournament each year. So when we got to Harvard, we said, well, where is the Harvard Math Tournament? And there wasn't one and our friend group had gone to a mix

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of schools there. We had a few people at Harvard, a few people at MIT. So we all got together and said, well, let's have a Harvard MIT math tournament. Um, and so, you know, that was something we did. Gosh, was it our freshman year when we,

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it was, I think we, we just decided we'd do that, you know, our, our freshman or maybe it was our sophomore year. Um, uh, and then, um, you know, there's so many service organizations at Harvard, the, the Phillips Brook House um was kind of a clearing

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house for Harvard students who wanted to create um service organizations. So, you know, I would go to, to Chinatown um and teach piano um in, in Boston. Um And, and then I became um poorer than I expected when I was in college. So, um so halfway

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through college, my father um broke it to me that he had enough money to support my junior year of college, but not my senior year. Um So, um so I had to decide between graduating early, which is possible because I had enough A P credits from

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high school or, you know, finding some way to pay for it myself. Um Harvard was great. Um Their financial aid isn't as good as it is now, but it was in that transition period when Harvard was looking to um expand financial aid for middle class and

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lower class families. So they um I went to the financial aid office, they, you know, we kind of split it 50 50. Right. So, they put some more money in towards my education and I had to find some more money. Um, so I moved into, um,

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a cooperative house where a number of Harvard students from similar, um, backgrounds would live and we would, you know, do our own cooking and cleaning, which cut the, um, the housing bill, um, greatly. So, um, so that was interesting. It was kind of like a hippie.

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It was called the Dudley co-op. It was this kind of hipster hippie place. Um, and, um, so I lived there for my final two years at Harvard University which put me in contact with a lot of people I think I wouldn't have met otherwise. Right? People

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who were, you know, traveling to Mexico to do, um, documentaries about the Zapatistas, you know, people who just, you know, were, you know, big thought leaders, not just for Harvard, but for the country, right? And we, um, you know, just living it, you know, the alternative

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life and the deadly co-op. So it was a fun experience. Ok. Awesome. Um, and so before that you were living on campus, like in one of the do. Yes. Yeah. Yeah. Let's see. I managed to live kind of as far as I could from campus every

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year. So freshman year, you know, there's most students lived in that famed Harvard yard, which is where you tourists go. If you go to see Harvard, I was, you know, house you know, some, you know, a block away. And then after that, people get put in

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the Harvard houses which were along that beautiful river, right in Cambridge that divides Cambridge and Boston. But, you know, I was in the Fort Clymer Dorm, which was the old, um, the old Radcliff dorms for women when Harvard and Radcliffe were separate universities. And then after

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that, I left for the go up. So, but yeah, I was on Harvard campus for the first couple of years. Ok. Awesome. And then, um, going back, like, how many of your friends were a part of like founding, I guess the Harvard MIT Math Tournament? Oh,

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I would, I can think of four, close friends from Houston who all went to Harvard and MIT together. Um Edward, early Alex Sal and Sean. I'm blanking on his last name. And then there were just a bunch of friends who were in, um, we were in

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the same, you know, multi variable, uh calculus class, freshman year. So there is another larger group of, you know, 5 to 10 people that helped as well. Um And then what were your, like, career interests in college? And, oh, and then also, how did you decide

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on like majoring in physics? Um I asked a lot of why questions at that age. I, you know, I started college at the age of 17 and I think I just had this burning desire to understand, you know, like how the universe was put together. Um,

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uh, um, and so, um, the physics gave, uh, you know, an avenue for understanding, um, some of the basic mysteries of the universe. And so that was just, um, very interesting to me. So, you know, I bounced back and forth between, um, math and computer science

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and physics. Um, I think it was formally a computer science major for like a semester before I went back to physics. Um But, um that seemed like a good major, you know, at Harvard, you don't do double majors. So it was a, a good major for

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me to have a chance to explore my interest. And I was also, by the way, um in the undergraduate teacher education program at Harvard, so you couldn't major in education. Um But I knew from pretty early on that I wanted to teach after college, at least

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for a while. Um And so, so I was also part of that program. Um And was it just like a, I guess a inside feeling that you wanted to teach or, um, I know you mentioned a lot of influential teachers throughout middle, like elementary through high

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school. Were they also part of you you're wanting to teach? Yeah. You know, I forgot to mention Mrs Moore who was my 7th and 8th grade math teacher and she was also our math counts coach. She took us to DC when, um when I, I qualified

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for the, you know the math counts, comp the National Math Counts Competition. And, and I remember being in this little tiny eighth grade geometry class, there were like six of us. Um and um uh you know, who knows why? But I decided the summer between 7th

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and 8th grade, that what I really wanted to spend my summer doing was learning geometry. So I got my parents to buy me AAA geometry book and I just kind of worked my way through it the summer before eighth grade. So when I got to eighth

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grade, like I knew most of the content. So I ended up teaching or co teaching the class, you know, with my teacher. Um and, and she looked at me one day and she says you are gonna be a teacher one day and I thought, oh no,

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I'm gonna be a mathematician one day. Like, I'm like gonna be a teacher, but I've always enjoyed um you know, helping my classmates to understand that. And then I think the um the other influence that was really formative is um when I was in high school,

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my dad um signed me up for a math camp at um Southwest Texas State University. It's called Texas State University. You know, I think they changed names. Um But that mouth count was, was really formative for me. There are a lot of elite math camps around

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the country for students who are, you know, headed for the International Math Olympia. But this camp was a little different. Max Warshauer. The director made a choice maybe in part because of funding. But I think also because of his philosophy that he was going to bring

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together diverse students to this math camp. So, you know, taught math students from around the state of Texas, um but from diverse parts of the state. So, you know, a top student from a small high school in rural South Texas would be in the same camp

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math camp with students from top high schools in, in Houston, right? Private schools, top public schools. And when you mix this all together, there's very different um levels of fluency in competition, math and kind of um more math that goes deeper than just what you're taught

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in school. Um And he always said that the max always said the best way to understand math is to teach it. And so he would put us into heterogeneous study groups every night, right? So every night you'd be for four hours, right? Doing math with, with

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your friends. And, you know, um that really gave me a taste of teaching math to, you know, diverse students from diverse backgrounds. Um and I think I fell in love with it. And so I think that experience being first a student and then a counselor at

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the Southwest Texas math camp um really was a strong influence on my deciding to teach. It gave me confidence that this would be something that I could be good at and that I would enjoy. Um cool. And then so after graduating from Harvard, what did you

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decide to do after graduating from Harvard? Um I was broke, remember? So, um so I didn't finish the undergraduate teacher education program. Um that program I don't think exists anymore. But at the time, um you needed to do a semester of student teaching, you could get

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your teaching license in Massachusetts. Um So that would be a one more semester where I'd have to pay tuition, um, live somehow in Boston. Um, and student teach and I didn't have the money for that. So, um so instead I um applied for and was accepted

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to teach for America, um which was only about 10 years old at the time. So it's still pretty early in that organization's history. Um And I went to teach in Texas, Rio Grande Valley. Um Were you able to choose that location? Uh We were able to

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rank our preferences and so I ranked, um, Houston was a site that was my number one choice and then my second choice was the other site in Texas at the time, which is the RGV. And what was that experience like during T FA? Yeah. Um Teaching

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in the Valley was an amazing experience. I was there for four years. The T FA commitment was two years. Um But I always felt that two years was too short of a time to um to really give back to a community that kind of opens their

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doors to you and invites a stranger in and says, like, come here and like, teach our Children, right? Um So I always knew that I wanted to stay a little bit longer than that. Um And I was fortunate to be at a great school that was

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very supportive. I had a chance to um work with great students. Um And so I stayed there for four years, which is a measure of how much I enjoyed it. Um And, you know, I just always felt, I always feel about teaching. It's just such a

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privilege, right? Parents give you their Children, right. And so we're gonna trust you to like shape our kids' minds, right? Um And um and teaching in the valley was really special too. I'd never lived in the valley before. Um Actually I'd never even visited before. I,

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you know, picked up and moved there. And um it's so different from Houston, you know, it's uh agricultural. I was teaching in the town at Couch um at the time at Couch and Elsa where two little towns combined comp um population just over 10,000. It was

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the second poorest school district in Texas. Um The average education of, of parents was third grade and um and it was a, you know, it's a farming community. Um So, uh you know, you drive through the fields uh to get to town, um, where you've got,

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you know, one stoplight and, uh, and an HEB and, you know, a gas station. Um, and, and, and then there's a school, there's a, you know, an amazing school which is the center of community where families can come and, and get, you know, a quality education.

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It's kind of, it's kind of amazing. Um, and it was a really, you know, warm community. Um, the, the population in the, in the valley had transitioned um prior to my arriving there um in 2000, you know, if you go back 30 years, it was a,

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it was a pretty white area. Um but then slowly it shifted and became majority Mexican American. So when I was teaching at a cos, I think almost all of my students were Mexican American. Um you know, some recent immigrants, but many, the Children of immigrants, so

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many were the Children of the Children of immigrants. So, um Mexican Americans who had been rooted in South Texas for a long time, many of whom were um migrant workers. So, um you know, traveling north to, to harvest crops and coming back um over the summer

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and then coming back in the fall um to go back um home and to go to school. Um and it was just a really um I was so warmly welcomed and for many of my students, um you know, I was the first Chinese American they'd ever

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met. Um It was just a great cultural exchange to learn about Mexican American culture in South Texas and for my students. So you have a chance to learn from? Me too. Yeah. Um What grade and subject did you teach? I taught, I taught high school. Um,

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uh, mostly I taught physics. So, juniors and seniors. Um And what do you like going into, um physics education? What did you imagine, like your challenges would be? Um And then what, what were the actual challenges you faced? Um while teaching? I don't know what I

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imagine the challenges would be. Um I think first year teachers are always um worried about uh classroom management or discipline, right? I was 21 when I started teaching, you know, and some of my students were not much younger, you know, 19. So, um so certainly when

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I looked like a student, I worried about classroom management, um I shouldn't have been so worried, you know, my students were great. Um And um I think what I was surprised by was um how much my students struggled with, with the math, right? So in, in

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trying to teach physics, um you, you assume at the high school level, you assume that students understand algebra, right? And if they don't, then they're kind of struggling with the language that, that you use to communicate and to explore physics. Um And so that was, that

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was a challenge. Um And um and what else, you know, when I first went to teach at cos um physics was a pretty elite class. So you, you, the time had been when only one or two grad classes out of the graduating class, so maybe 50

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students out of a graduating class of two or 300 would ever take physics. Um And, but we slowly transitioned physics to be kind of your basic class, right. So most students in the high school would default to biology, chemistry, physics. Um and not every student would

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take physics, but the idea that most would is juniors was new, right? So in expanding that program, we had to order a lot of equipment. So when I first got there, I remember I had a class set of textbooks. I had a box of chalk and

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I had a meter stick, which is not a lot of equipment to go about teaching physics. So, um so I uh you know, spend a lot of time at the hardware store um buying, you know, random equipment in order to, to build good physics experiments, actually

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a great place to, to buy equipment. Um and then um ordering a lot of equipment to build up that program. Um So was that program, I guess already like in the works of being established or did you have to like work to get it, you know,

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like established and then convince other people to like, help you out? It, it was, so there was actually AAA T fa teacher who was already teaching physics at the school, her name was Sarah Bei. And so she was there a couple of years before me and

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she had already started that process. So I was there as a second physics teacher to further expand that program. And then when she left her medical school, I, I stayed and continued to help build that program. Um And so you were there for four years. Um

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What were your plans after, you know, you ended um teaching um for teach for America. Uh Initially, when I went to uh to teach for America, I thought I would go back and apply for graduate school. Um But I just fell in love with teaching. Um

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I just really enjoyed every day, you know, being out there with my students um helping instill in them that love of, of learning and of exploration that my, my parents and my teachers had given me, I have a chance to send um some students to um

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uh to, to study at Stanford and MIT. Um And, and so I enjoyed so much working with students and working with people to make a change in kind of social outcomes and educational outcomes for, for kids that, that I couldn't see myself going back into physics

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and doing research, you know, like being back in a basement, you know, configuring lasers. So, um so that left me with the challenge of deciding what then specifically to do Right. Um I, after four years of teaching, I was um doing some training for physics teachers.

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So I thought about doing um graduate school in um in physics education. Um So I explored a number of different areas, but I decided, ok, I'm gonna start to explore options besides physics graduate school. Ok. Ok. And then, so did you end up, so you did

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end up getting like a master's degree? I did, I ended up going um back to Harvard um to the Harvard Kennedy school where I studied public policy. And how was that? And that was, that, that came out about in large part because I saw how public

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policies did affect my students. You know, I saw, um, I was teaching, um, you know, when, when 9 11 happened and um when my students began to be drafted into the Iraq war and I, you know, saw how, um immigration policy and clinics, health clinics, you

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know, all of these public policy pieces affected very directly the lives of my students and the opportunities that they and their families would have. And so I thought, you know, I want to learn more about where these things come from. Um, and studying public policy was

00:31:20.819 - 00:31:41.800

a great chance to do that. Ok, cool. Um, and then I guess how was your time like at Harvard um studying public policy? Um were you able to like get like, I guess, get your feet wet and making policies and like writing up, you know, policy

00:31:41.810 - 00:32:08.670

drafts and stuff. Yeah. Um the public policy program at the Harvard Kennedy School is um is incredibly useful training, it's very practical. So it's a great mix of studying theory. But then also looking at how do you take research um and and data and, and process

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it not just for research sakes, not just to write some more papers and you can do that. Um but also to immediately turn it into action plans, right? When you have to make decisions very quickly on the ground as a policymaker. Um so it was great

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training and we had a chance in every class to, to do projects and sometimes to do um you know, to do, to do things that would actually go out and be used. Um There's partnerships between the city of Somerville, the city of Boston with, with Harvard

00:32:39.930 - 00:33:04.790

University. So it's just really wonderful training. Um And then what brought you brought you back to Houston um after business, after sorry school. Yeah. Well, my family is in Houston. Um my um my parents, um my and my grandmother as well. My mom's mom who um

00:33:06.400 - 00:33:24.569

immigrated to Houston after Hong Kong went back to China. Um So my grandmother wasn't in Houston when I was growing up, but then came back to Houston um while I was in college. And so I wanted to be back home, spend more time with my family.

00:33:24.579 - 00:33:48.040

Have the opportunity to spend more time with my grandmother as well. Um, uh, so, so Houston is what made sense for me. Um, oh, did she move after 1997 or before the handover? It was about the same time. Yeah. So that's, I guess that's when I

00:33:48.050 - 00:34:07.910

was in college. Yeah, in 97 she came to Houston. Um, and then moving on to, like, I guess your campaign experience, um, running for the Hisd Board of Education. Um Can you describe that process? Um And if I guess your identity had impacted your campaign in

00:34:07.920 - 00:34:29.459

any way? Yeah. Um So my decision to run for hit school board was influenced very much by my experience as a teacher in Houston. Um when I came to Houston, I worked at Lee High School, which is the same high school I was zoned to growing

00:34:29.469 - 00:34:53.449

up. Uh It serves um the west side of Houston. It serves a lot of immigrant communities. So students from all over the world from um from Sub Saharan Africa, from Southeast Asia, South Asia, um Latin America. Um and, and I really felt like working at Lee

00:34:53.459 - 00:35:14.540

High School that, you know, the work that we were doing was almost holy, you know, that, you know, I come from a, a family of immigrants um you know, and, and previously even refugees, right? If you go back in my family history, um my father's father

00:35:14.550 - 00:35:33.540

um fled from um from China to Hong Kong. Um in the early fifties with my, with my dad, um and his sister. Um and, and so, you know, to, to serve refugee and immigrant families here in Houston and to give them a chance to, you know,

00:35:33.550 - 00:35:48.979

after whatever they've experienced, right, come to America, get a good education and then have a chance to um you know, to fulfill your dream, right? For you and for your family, like that's what every immigrant wants. Um And I just felt having a chance to do

00:35:48.989 - 00:36:06.199

that work was just um a real privilege, right? And really, I um thought for a while that I might do teaching and then public policy advocacy from Lee High School um without looking for, you know, any other job. Um But what I started to see is

00:36:06.209 - 00:36:23.429

how policies at the national level, at the state level and then cascading down to the district level impacted my students and sometimes in really negative ways. So there was a Harvard Professor Roland Fryer who came to Houston and, and began to consult with Houston ISD schools

00:36:23.439 - 00:36:40.409

while I was teaching there to um you know, the idea was to improve Hisd schools. Um And there were some good things about the program, it's called Apollo. It um brought additional funding, additional resources to schools, tutoring for students. But it also took a really kind

00:36:40.419 - 00:37:02.189

of mechanistic approach. Um maybe not surprising coming from an economist to school improvement. Um you know, a lot of um looking at students as numbers, um looking at the data and then in a very mechanistic way, you know, saying, all right, you're, you're a manager, right?

00:37:02.199 - 00:37:20.840

You're a principal, you're a teacher, make the numbers go up. Um And you know, as somebody who, who, who were used to work still worked, right? 80 100 hour weeks, right, trying to do whatever I could to help my students improve and who had had amazing

00:37:20.850 - 00:37:39.860

results too with students. Um I I had helped raise the the tax passing rate taxes, the standardized test in Texas at the time. Um the science pass rate which is required for high school graduation went up from, it went up almost 30 points. My first year

00:37:39.870 - 00:37:52.780

teaching there, right? Because of efforts I made um as a teacher and as a team player in the school, working with other science teachers to really raise science achievement in the school. And a really right, like we took the approach of having super science, Saturdays and

00:37:52.790 - 00:38:12.899

having kids come in and have fun, right? Learning science and you really understand it then you automatically do better on your tests. Um But I saw this really mechanistic approach to education come in and and suddenly our kids who like my fellow teachers and I we

00:38:12.909 - 00:38:26.159

always felt like these kids are us, right? Like, like we went to public schools, um we had a different chance in our life because we had teachers who cared about us and we had a chance to get a good education. Right. And now we have a

00:38:26.169 - 00:38:40.620

chance to serve kids who like us or immigrants or refugees who are trying to make it. But we understand where they're coming from. Like we understand maybe if you lived half your life in a refugee camp in Jordan because your family was affected by the Iraq

00:38:40.629 - 00:39:01.919

war, then you're gonna have trouble reading the science tests, right? Um You know, when, when you get a science question that asks, ok, you know, which of these traits is adaptive and the correct answer is claw. Well, you might understand what an adaptation is. You might,

00:39:02.120 - 00:39:18.870

you know, under have, you know, passed your high school English class but you might not have like studied the word claw in your high school biology class because you just didn't grow up here, right? Um And what I saw was, um, this kind of no excuses

00:39:18.879 - 00:39:35.949

approach that was really hard on students that really made them feel down on themselves. And in the end started doing things that I thought were, you know, unethical. Um, and probably illegal, right? I saw kids being encouraged to drop out of school because, um, you know,

00:39:35.959 - 00:39:50.330

ok, well, you're gonna graduate in five years. That's not gonna look good on our record, right? I think five years graduating in five years when you've come to this country, um, as a new immigrant, as a refugee is amazing. It's a success story but it makes

00:39:50.340 - 00:40:01.530

a high school that wants to show a high four year graduation rate look bad. Right. So we had kids who were actively counseled out of school, like kids on the street. Right? You find them on the street and you're like, where are you? Right. I thought

00:40:01.540 - 00:40:12.550

you had moved back to Mexico. I thought you went to Florida. Right. That's what the form you signed said. No, Miss, I'm still here, right? Like that, that kind of stuff was happening because the adults wanted to make the numbers look good, right? For the economist

00:40:12.560 - 00:40:33.810

at Harvard, it has nothing to do with making the lives of Children better. Um And um you know, and, and really good te I saw amazing teachers, teachers who had transformed kids' lives, right? Who were fighting to have kids taken care of, right? Um Whistleblowers, I

00:40:33.820 - 00:40:51.080

guess who were um being pushed out of the profession, right? They basically given trash records so they could never work again as teachers. Um And so I, you know, I started to talk with people from around the city, from around the country and realized it wasn't

00:40:51.090 - 00:41:07.479

just the high school, right? You might just think, oh, this is just a nightmare scenario because of like one rogue economist and like one superintendent, you know, um one nasty principal. But then you start to realize that similar stories are playing out across the city, across

00:41:07.489 - 00:41:26.080

the country. Even. And then you realize, oh OK, this is being driven by public policies, this is being driven by, um you know, um people who, who don't understand education, I think you can just apply some metrics and then set some expectations and then, um and

00:41:26.090 - 00:41:47.419

then magically get, get results without understanding how to actually improve education as an art as a system. Um And um so I, I started organizing, so I found some, um, fellow teachers who had been organizers in the past. Um, and, you know, I had taken a

00:41:47.429 - 00:42:03.189

class in community organizing at Harvard at the Kennedy school and I said, ok, well, what we need is an organization of parents and students and teachers working together to articulate what a more positive path forward is for education. So I started an organization called Community Voices

00:42:03.199 - 00:42:20.810

for Public Education. Um, and we started, um, going to meet with school board members. We started, um, talking to the newspapers, we started telling the stories of our students, uh, and asking for a change. Um, we got the H I AC school board to pass a

00:42:20.820 - 00:42:39.790

resolution that was ultimately passed by school boards across the state of Texas saying high stakes testing had gone too far. Um, it led to, um, a reduction in high stakes testing, um, at the state level, um, within a couple of years. Um, and then, you know,

00:42:39.800 - 00:42:52.889

we started to see some improvements at the state level, but still not improvements at the local level, which led to us saying, ok, well, we need better, we need better local leaders, right? So we looked it up and said, oh, well, you know, the school board

00:42:52.919 - 00:43:06.179

are the ones who hire the superintendent, set the policy, set the vision for the school district. We need to, um, support some better school board candidates and then come to find out when we start working for campaigns, et cetera. Actually, what we needed was some better

00:43:06.189 - 00:43:24.689

candidates. And so I got strong armed by one of my colleagues and into running for, for school board. Um So the question of identity, I would say identity affected my campaign in a couple of ways, you know, one is just that sense of, you know, I

00:43:24.699 - 00:43:42.260

am my students, my students are me, you know, that same um ethic, that's an ethos, a belief that I brought to my teaching, I brought to my campaign as well. Um You know, we can't treat the Children of Houston like they are the other like, um

00:43:42.540 - 00:44:01.459

it's OK to give them a substandard education um whilst, you know, in education, in a private school in Houston looks very different, like that's not OK, that's not gonna be ok for our future. Um And so that's, that's one way um where my identity, I think

00:44:01.469 - 00:44:19.800

um just informed the approach I took to my work in education, whether it's a teacher organizer or, or a candidate. Um and then the other way, uh you know, with the other experience I had as a, as a candidate, I was the first, um I think

00:44:19.810 - 00:44:38.260

very competitive candidate in Houston uh for Houston School board who is Asian. Um And so, uh you know, a lot of people kind of looked at me and said, well, who are you? Right. We don't know, we don't know who you are, even leaders within the

00:44:38.270 - 00:45:06.520

Asian communities. Well, we don't, we don't know you. Um So what makes you think you can run a, a campaign and win? Um And um so, so that was, um that was a surprising experience to me um in, in campaigning. Um But I think also um

00:45:07.209 - 00:45:26.870

being the first really competitive Asian American to run for school board and then the first Asian American to eventually win, I think also, um you know, inspired a lot of people. So I hear from students sometimes, you know, that they are inspired by my story. Um

00:45:26.879 - 00:45:42.429

I hear from, from parents um too and people who have supported my campaign that it's meaningful to, to look at the school board and to see somebody that looks like them. And so there's a way in which, you know, that I'm, I'm proud to be a

00:45:42.439 - 00:45:56.489

trail trail blazer in that way. And to hear from people around the district, you know, that, oh, you know, this is, you're a role model for us that's very meaningful. The follow up question I had um was um how would you encourage, I guess, like, besides

00:45:56.500 - 00:46:19.949

like being the Trailblazer and like, showing that there is representation um in um poli like education. Um How would you encourage, I guess, like, other Asian Americans to be involved in politics or like? Yeah. Oh, so is the question, what message do I have for Asian

00:46:19.959 - 00:46:39.780

Americans? Like, or how would I personally want to encourage them? Like, what, what exactly are you asking? Um I guess like, because like, there's like um Asian Americans in general have a lower, like, voter turnout so like less involved politically. Um I guess how would you

00:46:39.790 - 00:47:09.570

encourage a Asian Americans to be more involved politically? Yeah. Um Yeah, it's, it's true that Asian Americans are participate in the political process, much less than other groups. You know, we vote at far lower rates, we run for office at lower rates. Um And I think

00:47:09.580 - 00:47:29.500

it's to our detriment because it means that uh we're not represented in decision making and it means that our communities um who are incredibly diverse, don't get the, the resources and support that they need. I think that is one reason why it's hard for Asian Americans

00:47:29.510 - 00:47:44.090

to run is because um Asia is such a diverse group. And so when you say Asian Americans, well, you know, that's a political construct, right? We have immigrants from countries all over Asia who come to the US who don't know each other whose countries might be

00:47:44.100 - 00:48:01.159

in conflict back home. Right. And so they come together as a collective, Asian American group is something that you have to, to learn. Um So as a, as a um as a member of OC, a Greater Houston, um where I've been on the board for uh

00:48:01.879 - 00:48:16.669

gosh, it's been at least five years now. Um I've really learned the importance of that kind of work. The one thing I've learned as a board member of OC A Greater Houston is how incredibly diverse the Asian American community is in Houston. And I've also learned

00:48:16.679 - 00:48:36.540

about how Asian Americans have been subject to racial discrimination in the US. Um whether um you know, overt like we're starting to see unfortunately today with the COVID-19 epidemic um or, you know, like Vincent Chan, the um auto worker, the auto worker incident in Detroit, Michigan

00:48:36.989 - 00:48:57.340

um back in the, in the late seventies, early eighties, um or whether it's structural racism, right? So we see both. Um And I've learned about that as a, as a um by becoming more involved in the Asian American community through ac a Greater Houston. Um And

00:48:58.080 - 00:49:17.659

um and one thing that I'm proud to have advocated for as a um school board member and as a um member of OC Greater Houston is for data dis aggregation for us to look at um how subgroups within the Asian community are affected. You see, for

00:49:17.669 - 00:49:38.889

instance, in education that uh students, Asian students as a whole, outperform um out, outperform other groups in the US. But then you see subgroups within those uh more recent refugees who need a lot of additional support, but who get missed when you don't aggregate data in

00:49:38.899 - 00:49:59.419

that way. So, um I would say to um Asian Americans, you know, if you want to make sure that you know, that America, which is the country where you live, right? Um Is the country where you have future dreams for yourself and for your family, if

00:49:59.429 - 00:50:16.120

you want to make sure that, that it's, that it's the country or it's the state or it's the city that you want to live in. Um Then, then you need to be part of the process to make it a more fair and more just society. Um

00:50:16.129 - 00:50:30.820

And if you're not part of the process, if your um group is excluded from politics, then that means that people who need um support from government who need to have, um you know, equality to have an equal playing field are, are not going to get that.

00:50:30.909 - 00:50:50.800

So, advocacy is really important. It's important to read up and pay attention to issues. It's important to communicate with politicians with elected officials. Um Because if you're not seen and you're not heard as a voter and as an advocate, then you're gonna get forgotten. Ok. Um

00:50:50.810 - 00:51:06.379

And then I guess reflecting back on how you were first a teacher and then you became more active, like on the, on public policy side. Um Is there, do you miss being a teacher or? Um Yeah, like, what's that? I guess comparison between working? That's a

00:51:06.389 - 00:51:23.560

great question. I miss being a teacher every day when you're a teacher. Um You know, you have an opportunity to make a deep, profound impact on your class. Right? Whether you're an elementary teacher with, you know, 24 kids or whether you're a high school teacher, you

00:51:23.570 - 00:51:38.379

know, with like six classes of, you know, 30 kids, either way, like you have a chance to go deep and really make a difference in kids' lives. You know, I still hear from kids that I taught um gosh, almost 20 years ago, um which is really

00:51:38.389 - 00:51:59.080

neat. Um And as a trustee, you have a chance to impact more students, right? There's over 200,000 students that are my responsibility in Houston ISD. Um And that I have a chance through policy to build programs that have a big impact, for instance, um something I

00:51:59.090 - 00:52:18.389

worked on my first year as a trustee is um building wrapper on supports for our students. Hisd is 80% low income. Our students come to school or, or don't even make it to school sometimes. Um because of challenges they have at home and if we can

00:52:18.399 - 00:52:36.340

help students take care of some of those non academic needs, then it's easier for them to, to do well. At school, the same concept of financial aid at the college level, right? Um So, um so we built policy that year that's paying off now that we've

00:52:36.350 - 00:52:51.620

got this COVID-19 crisis that paid off during the hurricane Harvey that hit a couple of years back where a majority of our schools now have wraparound specialists who are connected with resources and agencies around the the city. So when a student comes to school and says,

00:52:51.629 - 00:53:03.939

look, I, you know, I just lost, you know, we just got kicked out of the house, right? I slept in the car last night or it's like, like this, like I haven't washed my clothes right in like a week. Right? And I'm ashamed to be at

00:53:03.949 - 00:53:15.860

school, right? We can take care or, or I can't see the board, right? Because I haven't had a check up, right? Or my glasses broke, right? Like we can solve those problems so that students can come to school and focus on school while they're there. Um

00:53:15.870 - 00:53:28.520

So that's a piece of policy work that, that I did. Um you know, my first year on the board recognizing where kids are coming to us with helping address meet students where they are so that then you can set those high standards and help them reach

00:53:28.530 - 00:53:44.100

those high standards. Um So now my Twitter feed is full of these amazing stories, right? Of our, our own specialists who are there with families um making a difference in their lives so that kids can continue to learn. Um but I miss sometimes, you know, being

00:53:44.110 - 00:54:02.030

that person to work directly with students and families too. Um So what are some, what are, I guess like today, what is the greatest obstacles that you see in education and like the work you do? Texas always ranks, it depends how you measure it, but Texas

00:54:02.040 - 00:54:21.919

always ranks towards the bottom in terms of investment in education and resources matter. We see that um across the world, we see that across states, we see that inside of Texas where school districts that have more resources, outperform school districts that don't have them. Um So,

00:54:24.949 - 00:54:42.229

you know, and we feel that now, for instance, with everybody home bound from COVID-19, um you know, if you can get a hotspot and a tablet or a laptop into a child's hands, right? Their experience at home is going to be radically different from a kid

00:54:42.239 - 00:55:01.320

who you sent home with a stack of paper and say, OK, here's a stack of paper, please work through it on your own, right? And just, you know, learn. Um so um resources matter in education that's always been um um something that's important. I would say

00:55:01.330 - 00:55:25.060

the second big challenge that we need to confront maybe even more important than the first is um we need to honor teachers, we need to train teachers, we need to raise up teaching as a profession, you know, um in Asia, teachers in East Asia, teachers are

00:55:25.070 - 00:55:51.070

not only highly respected, um, but they're also well trained and supported. Um, so in some of the countries where we see um, students performing really well outperforming the US, Japan, um Shanghai, um you see that investment in teachers as a profession and in the US, um,

00:55:51.080 - 00:56:08.899

we don't do the same. Um, teachers are not drawn from, um, you know, the, the top students in universities. Um you know, you look at Harvard University, it didn't have a um you know, education as a major, it doesn't have a really clear viable path for

00:56:08.909 - 00:56:23.139

students to become teachers because it wasn't seen as a priority for students at the, you know, the top um Ivy League school in the country. Um that's changed at Harvard. Um So I think there's some good work being done to look at how you can um

00:56:23.149 - 00:56:40.530

encourage really taught students to go into education, not just for a couple of years. Teach for America is a great program, but you cannot radically transform um you know, teaching by just making it something that people do for a couple of years, they move on, like

00:56:40.540 - 00:57:00.969

to really elevate the profession and to therefore really transform the quality of education that students get. I think we as a country need to completely rethink how we recruit, how we train, how we professionally develop these teachers. Um And then I guess moving on to um

00:57:01.959 - 00:57:23.139

like your family and then like being in Houston. Um, so how did you meet your husband? Uh, my husband and I met online at, um, mauch dot com. It was the best 25 bucks I ever spent. Um, and with your parents, um, being, I guess, like,

00:57:23.149 - 00:57:52.510

from like a, from Hong Kong. Um, did you have any cultural traditions that you had, like, growing up that you also are wanting to pass on to your daughter? Um Yeah, that's interesting. Um I think that my parents, my parents raised me um with a sense

00:57:52.520 - 00:58:10.330

of pride in, you know, in being Chinese um in knowing kind of some of the cultural history of, of China. And, you know, there are a few cultural traditions that we observe, like, um you know, like, you know, the mid autumn festival and, you know, celebrating

00:58:10.340 - 00:58:34.530

the Lunar New Year and, you know, um my daughter knows how to ask for Red Pockets. Um but I, I don't think that, you know, I think, I think that we haven't passed on in my family, very strong um Chinese traditions. Um One thing, one thing

00:58:34.540 - 00:58:52.510

I do take from kind of my broad or Chinese heritage is that I'm Buddhist. And so my daughter has grown up, you know, talking to Buddhas and, you know, um and so that's a piece of cultural heritage that I like to pass on. Um And then

00:58:52.520 - 00:59:13.199

how would you, since you grew up um in Houston went to public schools in Houston and then came back to teach. Um, and they're living in Houston raising your daughter. Um How would you say that Houston has changed? Um, over time? Wow, Houston has changed a

00:59:13.209 - 00:59:30.360

lot. Um I'm always amazed when I come back to Chinatown. Um, after being away how much it seems to have grown. Right. Asia town in Houston has just expanded tremendously when my parents first came here. Um, and there were a few blocks downtown and there wasn't

00:59:30.370 - 00:59:46.020

anything on Bel Air Boulevard, but now it just keeps getting bigger and bigger. Um So, you know, the quality of Chinese grocery store has improved over the years. I feel like when I go back to Hong Kong now, you know, my relatives say, oh, you can

00:59:46.030 - 01:00:02.100

eat this, you can eat that. Like I say, I have to disappoint you, right? We can eat all of that in Houston too. Um And what else about Houston has changed? You know, there's, Houston is increasingly diverse, you know, when I was younger growing up. Um

01:00:02.110 - 01:00:25.590

I think, oh, you know, my classmates were, you know, white and Hispanic and black and there were, you know, Chinese um immigrants like myself, like my family. But, but now, you know, there's more Indian immigrants, my, my husband's Indian. Um there are um you know, students

01:00:25.600 - 01:00:45.770

from, from many more countries that are here in, in Houston. Um you know, a Asians are one of the fast growing groups here in Houston. Um What else has changed? Um We've got more green space in Houston, like it's a delight, you know, after coming back

01:00:45.780 - 01:01:03.000

from college to go downtown and to see the revitalization there, I hope that lasts through this, this current epidemic. Um to see the, the walk and the biking trails, you know. So I think there's a lot of ways in which Houston has become more attractive, you

01:01:03.010 - 01:01:21.439

know, more of a fun place to live. Um, great food and those are, those are some of the changes I've seen over the years. Ok, awesome. Um, and then, um, you mentioned COVID-19 um, before, but, um, how has that impacted your life and then also, um,

01:01:22.149 - 01:01:42.590

your job, like on the board? Mhm. So, well, like, um, like many folks, um, who are able to do. So I'm home now. So I've been home mostly for the last 3 to 4 weeks. Um, except for trips, grocery shopping. Uh, and so that means my

01:01:42.600 - 01:01:59.469

husband and I are both working from home. We're taking care of our daughter from home, uh, whose school was closed indefinitely, just like all of Houston ID schools. Uh, it's a change of pace. Um, it reminds me very much of my first year, uh, of my

01:01:59.479 - 01:02:15.219

daughter's first year, you know, being home with her all the time without a lot of support in terms of child care. So, um, you know, so there's sweet things about it. Um, I enjoy being home with my family. My husband usually travels. It's nice having him

01:02:15.229 - 01:02:34.370

home. Um, but it's also tough. Right. Not having enough good support. And we very much miss, you know, our, um, my parents who live in town, you know, not being able to visit them regularly is tough. Um, in terms of working, you know, the, the work

01:02:34.379 - 01:02:48.129

for H IC school board doesn't stop, you know. So we are remote now. We had an online board meeting yesterday. So from two until nine, right, we just did it on Zoom instead of in person. Um I still have community meetings. I just have them in

01:02:48.139 - 01:03:11.389

Zoom instead of in person. Um And, you know, I would say this disaster like hurricane Harvey previously in Houston. Um Yes, it really makes me worry for our kids. And so I think that's the biggest change is, you know, in a sense of disa when it,

01:03:11.399 - 01:03:28.699

when there's a disaster, but you wanna get out there and do everything you can to help make a difference for those who, you know, are most vulnerable and, you know, right now that's all of our families right now, I see your suffering, right? People are losing

01:03:28.709 - 01:03:51.300

jobs, even people who thought their jobs were secure. Um for the majority of our families, you know, they, they're living hand to mouth, right. It's kind of day to day, they don't have a lot of savings. Um And so this um this um virus which has

01:03:51.310 - 01:04:09.149

stopped our economy and, and, you know, makes it a choice between, you know, risking their lives and, and, and staying home. Um but not having the resources to, you know, feed themselves is, is really hard. We have a lot of undocumented students in Houston. So even

01:04:09.159 - 01:04:24.080

though, you know, the government's trying to step up and help families, some of those aren't gonna reach a lot of our communities in Houston. So I'm very worried, you know, um you would think that a school board member would mostly be focused on education, right? So,

01:04:24.090 - 01:04:39.320

ok, let's get kids, you know, educational package. So let's give them devices. But we always in Houston have had to worry about feeding our kids because if kids are hungry, they're not gonna be able to show up to school and learn and now it's even more

01:04:39.330 - 01:04:53.070

so, right? How do we get food out to kids? Um How do we get them, the, the um them and their families, the supports they need so they can be safe first because unless you have safety, then you can't sit down and try to try to

01:04:53.080 - 01:05:09.750

learn math or, or reading. Um So all of those things weigh really heavily on me. Um I'm blessed to have a lot of connections and networks from having lived in Houston for so long and um having done so much um advocacy work and so I'm able

01:05:09.760 - 01:05:41.020

to make some connections. But there is this part of me that just um feels um feels impatient and feels um just unsatisfied right by the dichotomy between my immediate existence where I'm living in a house with an adequately, you know, um filled pan um with electricity

01:05:41.030 - 01:05:55.850

with wifi and then my ability to turn around and help families who I know don't have those things. Um And knowing that because of the virus, you can't just get out there and, and, and, and help people much more directly. It's really, it's really hard right

01:05:55.860 - 01:06:21.800

now. Um And you also mentioned discrimination and racism against Asian Asian Asian Americans due to COVID-19. Um How should, how would you, how, how should like this be addressed in your opinion? OK. Uh In Houston, we've been fortunate that uh a lot of leaders have stepped

01:06:21.810 - 01:06:42.500

up to, to denounce that kind of racism. You know, our mayor has invited in and honored Asian leaders who have been making donations of masks of um P pe um to the Houston community um represent state rep. Jean Wu who's my state rep has been doing

01:06:42.510 - 01:07:02.120

an amazing job. Like he's um rounded up a lot of um donations from the Asian community of, of P pe and he's out there delivering it to all corners of Houston um to all communities every single day. Um I think that the Asian community and in

01:07:02.129 - 01:07:16.060

the US, we're blessed because we have a lot of connections. Um Back in Asia. And so we're able to get shipments of P pe, you know, over to the US or we have them stockpiled because, you know, we're always worried about the next pandemic. So we've

01:07:16.070 - 01:07:31.679

got those things ready to go. And I think sharing them with, with the wider American community, um you know, has been a positive step that and a positive approach that people have taken. And I'm just really gratified to see some leaders um in the US who

01:07:31.689 - 01:07:45.939

are not Asian American stepping up and acknowledging those efforts and really saying, look, we're all in this together and splitting us into different groups and blaming one group or the other isn't how we come together as Americans and need this. I think Asian Americans actually have

01:07:45.949 - 01:08:07.479

a really important role um in leading efforts to um combat the epidemic here in, in the US. And um and I hope that I hope that we can um as a society come to see more those efforts and see more about the um the benefits that

01:08:07.489 - 01:08:30.770

Asian Americans bring to the whole country than to, you know, to fall into um the trap of, of blaming people, which doesn't actually yield um improved outcomes for anyone. Um And then kind of a concluding question is, um what would you say are your greatest accomplishments

01:08:30.779 - 01:08:58.290

so far? Oh, that's a big question. Um I'm very proud um to have led a lot of policy work on the Houston IC school board. So um working to make sure that we have wraparound services and support for our students um is one important piece, we

01:08:58.299 - 01:09:18.569

need to understand our students and where they come from and the barriers to their success and get those barriers out of the way. Um And then the second piece I think of helping students succeed um in education is to um set really high expectations to really

01:09:18.700 - 01:09:40.740

acknowledge the great potential that every single student has no matter their background. Um to, to be that next scientist to find the vaccine um for COVID or to um you know, be a uh you know, a mayor or a um county judge, right? Or to um

01:09:41.009 - 01:09:59.279

you know, be a lawyer and an advocate um are students are our future and if we segregate students and, and expect great things from some but not from others, then we're not gonna have a very bright future. Um And so I'm, I'm proud um as a

01:09:59.290 - 01:10:21.609

school board member to have um in addition to um setting um some policy around wrap around support. So it also written policy around um expectations for college and readiness um to make sure that we're monitoring and reporting on um the performance of, of subpopulation of students,

01:10:21.620 - 01:10:39.410

looking at how our students who are English learners, our students with disabilities, um economic disadvantaged students um to make sure that we're looking at how all of them are doing and being prepared for college and career. Are we offering them A P classes? Are we offering

01:10:39.419 - 01:10:54.200

them IB classes, um, CTE courses? Um, those are some of the policy pieces that I've, that I've worked on and I'm proud to say that he's an ID, um, was rated by the state of Texas to have a B plus, um, overall and to have an

01:10:54.209 - 01:11:22.020

A, um, for college and career readiness this past academic year? Ok. awesome. Um And so we're nearing the end of the interview. Um Are there any like last remarks you wanted to make or um, words of advice you wanted to end the interview with? Oh, not

01:11:22.029 - 01:11:29.120

in particular. No, I really enjoyed the interview. Thank you. Ok. Awesome. Thank you so much, Miss Song for allowing the archives to interview you.